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Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-07, 01:37 PM Reply #175 »
You show the Cup ranking No1 in terms of prizemoney.

Where does the Everest rank? :

What I'm trying to do is ascertain the rise in prizemoney in 50 years (since 1968).

The Everest is a new race so there is no 1968 data thus it is out of the list and it has no 2018 rating. The highest prizemoney race where I have 1968 data is The Cup  :)

Offline pwa54

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« 2018-Oct-07, 04:20 PM Reply #176 »
Interesting figures, PP. Some of those are as you say pretty staggering. The increase in prize-money has far exceeded the increase in average income over the same period although the Epsom and Metropolitan have declined quite a bit in relative prize-money.

Tony Arrold's Racegoer's Handbook from 1978 had a section on the $100,000 races. The first one was the 1971 Melbourne Cup worth $102,000 then the 1972 Perth Cup went from $20,000 the previous year to $100,000.

1973-4 saw the Caulfield Cup, the VRC Derby, the WA Australian Derby, the Golden Slipper, the Doncaster, the Sydney Cup and the Spring Champion Stakes all $100,000 or more.

1974-75 added the AJC Derby, the Epsom and the Metropolitan, 1975-76 the Cox Plate and 76-77 the Doomben 10,000. I remember the $100,000 prize-money threshold was a big deal back in the 70s as were the million dollar winners in the 80s.

Was the 2018 Keith MacKay/Percy Sykes worth $1,000,000? I thought it was $600,000

Offline tontonan

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« 2018-Oct-07, 06:30 PM Reply #177 »
PP7,

I could have sworn we had an argument not so long ago when I mentioned that the Epsom and Metropolitan were 'not as big a deal' as they had been in the past and you jumped down my throat as though I was some sort of Victorian assassin for daring to suggest such a thing.  I produced proof that the comparative staking of the races had declined against other benchmarks and you still would not accept my reasoning.

And what do we have here ?

Why it is a table outlining the comparative staking of feature races and ranking them on an increase index... and the Epsom and the Metropolitan are right down the bottom.  Who woulda thunk it ?

I think you need to have an argument with yourself that ends with you slapping yourself across the back of your head.

Next thing you'll be telling me More Joyous wasn't a genuine 2000m horse.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-07, 08:32 PM Reply #178 »
Interesting figures, PP. Some of those are as you say pretty staggering. The increase in prize-money has far exceeded the increase in average income over the same period although the Epsom and Metropolitan have declined quite a bit in relative prize-money.

Tony Arrold's Racegoer's Handbook from 1978 had a section on the $100,000 races. The first one was the 1971 Melbourne Cup worth $102,000 then the 1972 Perth Cup went from $20,000 the previous year to $100,000.

1973-4 saw the Caulfield Cup, the VRC Derby, the WA Australian Derby, the Golden Slipper, the Doncaster, the Sydney Cup and the Spring Champion Stakes all $100,000 or more.

1974-75 added the AJC Derby, the Epsom and the Metropolitan, 1975-76 the Cox Plate and 76-77 the Doomben 10,000. I remember the $100,000 prize-money threshold was a big deal back in the 70s as were the million dollar winners in the 80s.

Was the 2018 Keith MacKay/Percy Sykes worth $1,000,000? I thought it was $600,000

Next year scheduled to be a $1,000,000 race - same as the Arrowfield Sprint. I have used the list in the link below as the basis for 2018 data so must clarify that the Sykes data is for 2019, not 2018.

http://www.racingaustralia.horse/arb/Group_ListedRaceDates/2018-2019.aspx

From what I can see pwa, normal Saturday racing in both Sydney and Melbourne was around $3,000 in prizemoney per race (the STC in Sydney were a little ahead of that).

Jump forward to today where it is around $125,000 per Saturday race. That is an increase of around 41 times.

Canberra races went from $300 per race to $20,000 per race last Friday - an increase of 66 times.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-07, 10:04 PM Reply #179 »
In 1968 it cost around $36,000 to get a home in the suburb of Campbell ATC.

In 2018 they are offering executive style units off the plan for $1.5 million. A 50's-60's nice looking 4 bedroom home is on the market for $1.3 million.

So you are looking at a price differential of around 50.

Electricity is sold at 1.45c KwH.

Offline Bubbasmith

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« 2018-Oct-09, 07:44 AM Reply #180 »
You show the Cup ranking No1 in terms of prizemoney.

Where does the Everest rank? :

That table related to the % increase in prize money for races since 1968, within that table there was reference to the ranking of prize money  today. The Everest did not exist back then therefore to include the race in that table is irrelevant, if it is the richest race today it has no relevance to that table.

Online Jeunes

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« 2018-Oct-16, 08:06 PM Reply #181 »
PP, the prize money increase from 1968 to now is quite interesting.

Any chance in your spare time to do a post on Current G1s compared to 30 or 40 years ago.

I would be interested in the decline of G1s in some states.


Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-16, 08:53 PM Reply #182 »
PP, the prize money increase from 1968 to now is quite interesting.

Any chance in your spare time to do a post on Current G1s compared to 30 or 40 years ago.

I would be interested in the decline of G1s in some states.

The problem with that Jeunes is that I'm sourcing my data from the Canberra Times via Trove and they have no coverage of racing outside of the ACT, NSW and Victoria.

Might have a look around and see if I can find another source.

Offline pwa54

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« 2018-Oct-17, 10:11 AM Reply #183 »
Jeune

Here's the prize-money for all 1982-83 G1s. The Tancred Stakes at 5 times as much as the Queen Elizabeth, Mackinnon etc was a surprise. The WA money was still there in the early 80s. The Doomben Cup was also an outlier.

Underwood $40,000
Marlboro Cup $104,000
Spring Champion $120,000
Epsom $120,000
SAJC Oaks $20,000
Metropolitan $120,000
Toorak $102,000
Caulfield Guineas $140,000
Caulfield Stakes $40,000
SAJC Derby $50,000
Thousand Guineas $120,000
Caulfield Cup $252,000
Cox Plate $275,000
VRC Derby $200,000
Mackinnon Stakes $50,000
Pure-Pak Stakes $85,000
Melbourne Cup $310,000
VRC Oaks $125,000
George Adams $116,000
WATC Derby $120,000
Western Mail Classic $130,000
WATC Australian Derby $272,000
Railway Stakes $175,000
Perth Cup $225,000
SAJC Australasian Oaks $130,000
Oakleigh Plate $101,000
Futurity $121,000
Blue Diamond $172,000
Canterbury Guineas $100,000
Newmarket $153,000
Rawson Stakes $50,000
VRC Sires' Produce $60,000
Australian Cup $101,000
Rosehill Guineas $151,000
George Ryder $100,000
Golden Slipper $300,000
Tancred $251,000
AJC Sires' Produce $58,000
Doncaster $150,000
AJC Derby $255,000
Queen Elizabeth Stakes $50,000
AJC Oaks $101,000
AJC All-Aged $50,000
Sydney Cup $171,000
AJC Champagne $60,000
Goodwood Hcp $50,000
Adelaide Cup $100,000
Queensland Oaks $40,000
Queensland Derby $75,000
Stradbroke $152,000
Brisbane Cup $100,000
Doomben 100,000 $122,000
Doomben Cup $180,000
« Last Edit: 2018-Oct-17, 11:14 AM by pwa54 »

Online Jeunes

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« 2018-Oct-18, 07:41 AM Reply #184 »
Thanks guys.

Quite interesting how Sydney and Melbourne have raced ahead in the prize money stake while others have not grown to that extent.

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure that the other states also lost G1 race status for some of theirs too while VRC Sires is the only that lose G1 status for the southern states.


Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-18, 07:57 AM Reply #185 »
Thanks guys.

Quite interesting how Sydney and Melbourne have raced ahead in the prize money stake while others have not grown to that extent.

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure that the other states also lost G1 race status for some of theirs too while VRC Sires is the only that lose G1 status for the southern states.

I've made that observation about Sydney and Melbourne a few times Jeunes.

In amongst all the Sydney v Melbourne rivalry, what has been lost in the noise is that the rest of Australia has not had the same growth rate.

FWIW I think all Derbies, Oaks and Sires Produce races should be Group 1 regardless of where they are run.

The reason we have Group racing is so that breeders can advertise that their produce was superior to their peers at level weights in the Sales catalogues. It was never intended as an ego thing.

Upgrade the prizemoney for the VRC Sires to make it Group 1 and run it on the same day as the St Leger i.e. Anzac Day. Fits nicely in between the ATC Sires and the Queensland Sires - which should also be Group 1.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Feb-17, 10:47 AM Reply #186 »
There are plenty of feature race "threepeats" but very few "fourpeats". I can find 5 fourpeats of major races in Australia.

Winx will be going for 4 consecutive Chipping Norton Stakes next start that would make it 6 fourpeats if she wins.

That would equal the achievement of Tie The Knot who won the race between 1999 and 2002.

Winx has also won 4 consecutive Cox Plates (stating the obvious).

Manikato won 5 consecutive William Reid Stakes between 1979 and 1983 when it was a Group 2 event.

Manikato also won 4 Futurities in 1979-1981 and again in 1983. He ran 2nd to Galleon in the 1982 Futurity. The 1979 race came before the Group classifications were introduced but the other three wins were when the race was Group 1.

Lord won 4 consecutive Memsie Stakes between 1958 and 1961.

Cannot find any other fourpeats so if anyone knows of any post them here thanks.

I've got:

Manikato - 5 consecutive William Reid Stakes 1979-1983 (Group 2)
Winx - 4 consecutive Cox Plates 2015-2018 (Group 1)
Tie The Knot - 4 consecutive Chipping Norton Stks 1999-2002 (Group 1)
Lord - 4 consecutive Memsie Stks 1958-1961 (prior to Group Classification)
Manikato - 4 non-consecutive Futurity Stks 1979-1981, 1983 (1979 race prior to Group classification, 1980,1981 and 1983 Group 1)

Offline pwa54

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« 2019-Feb-17, 12:35 PM Reply #187 »
Trafalgar won 4 consecutive Randwick Plates from 1909-12.  I think he's the only one pre-Lord?

Gloaming (4 Canterbury Challenge Stakes 1919, 1921-22 and 1925)  and Sleepy Fox (ARC Easter Handicap 1944-47) "fourpeted" in NZ
« Last Edit: 2019-Feb-17, 12:49 PM by pwa54 »

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Feb-19, 07:32 AM Reply #188 »
Trafalgar won 4 consecutive Randwick Plates from 1909-12.  I think he's the only one pre-Lord?

Gloaming (4 Canterbury Challenge Stakes 1919, 1921-22 and 1925)  and Sleepy Fox (ARC Easter Handicap 1944-47) "fourpeted" in NZ

Thanks PWA

We'll set up a list of 4 (or more) feature race winners:

Australia

Manikato - 5 consecutive William Reid Stakes 1979-1983 (Group 2)
Winx - 4 consecutive Cox Plates 2015-2018 (Group 1)
Tie The Knot - 4 consecutive Chipping Norton Stks 1999-2002 (Group 1)
Lord - 4 consecutive Memsie Stks 1958-1961 (prior to Group Classification)
Manikato - 4 non-consecutive Futurity Stks 1979-1981, 1983 (1979 race prior to Group classification, 1980,1981 and 1983 Group 1)
Trafalgar - 4 consecutive Randwick Plates 1909-1912 (prior to Group Classification)


New Zealand

Gloaming - 4 non-consecutive Canterbury Challenge Stakes 1919, 1921-22, 1925 (prior to Group Classification)
Sleepy Fox - 4 consecutive ARC Easter Hcps 1944-47 (prior to Group Classification)


Hopefully we'll be updating the list after the Chipping Norton.

Sleepy Fox is the only one to have won 4 consecutive handicaps - which is an extra achievement under the assumption his weight would have increased every win.

Offline pwa54

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« 2019-Feb-19, 09:00 AM Reply #189 »
Sleepy Fox had seven starts in Australia, 1945-46 winning the Canterbury Stakes and the Chelmsford Stakes in 1945 but unplaced with 9.13 and 9.8 respectively to Bernborough (carrying 10.2 and 9.13) in the 1946 Futurity and Newmarket.
He had 7 starts in the Easter Handicap, carrying 8.0, 9.5, 10.2 and 9.13 in his victories. He finished 3rd as a 9yo in 1949 with 9.10.
He was an impressive sprinter-miler carrying huge weights in handicaps throughout his long career. Totally forgotten today, but PP is right, the only Australasian horse to win a specific feature handicap 4 times.
« Last Edit: 2019-Feb-20, 09:46 AM by pwa54 »

Offline pwa54

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« 2019-Sep-23, 07:08 PM Reply #190 »
For fans of Tasmanian racing, Mystic Journey was considered to be the only Tasmanian-trained winner of a Group One on the mainland since the 19th century.

However, Desire, owned (by F.A. O'Connor) and trained (at Carrick by D.Virtue) won the Newmarket in 1912. He won the Launceston Cup in the lead-up to the Newmarket and took out the Bourke Handicap as well while in Victoria.

Offline pwa54

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« 2020-Jan-24, 11:38 AM Reply #191 »
The latest instalment in Ian Ibbett's fascinating series on the AJC Derby is about Kingston Town and 1980

https://kingsoftheturf.com/1980-from-a-jack-to-a-king/

Great nostalgia!

Offline wily ole dog

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« 2020-Jan-25, 06:28 AM Reply #192 »
The latest instalment in Ian Ibbett's fascinating series on the AJC Derby is about Kingston Town and 1980

https://kingsoftheturf.com/1980-from-a-jack-to-a-king/

Great nostalgia!

Thanks 54. A great read as usual

Offline wily ole dog

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« 2020-Jan-26, 07:48 AM Reply #193 »
3 horses racing out of the same mare in Melbourne today. A record?

Half brothers out of Havasinga

Offline pwa54

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« 2020-Apr-17, 11:54 AM Reply #194 »
Ian Ibbett's latest instalment on the AJC Derby covers Dulcify and 1979. As usual, it is a great read.

https://kingsoftheturf.com/1979-colin-hayes-and-dulcify-how-sweet-it-was/


Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2020-Apr-17, 09:51 PM Reply #195 »
Ian Ibbett's latest instalment on the AJC Derby covers Dulcify and 1979. As usual, it is a great read.

https://kingsoftheturf.com/1979-colin-hayes-and-dulcify-how-sweet-it-was/

It is a great read pwa.

SA Racing when I first started following the sport was king pin. Without Fear was the champion sire and horses like Desirable and Dulcify were commonplace coming out of SA.

The SA Derby winner usually performed better than the VRC or AJC Derby winners.

Look at it now  :no:

Point Of Consumption Tax, that their Govt. started up, seems to have made things worse.

Offline pwa54

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« 2020-Apr-18, 11:36 AM Reply #196 »
It's sad to see what SA racing has become.

I'm a decade older PP and, from when I started following in 1963, SA seemed to produce as many champions as NSW/Vic. In the space of a few years Galilee, Tobin Bronze, Rain Lover and others started their careers in Adelaide. It's hard to think of many recent quality horses which have begun their racing in SA.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2020-May-17, 09:52 PM Reply #197 »
Apologies if these links have already been posted, but came across some biographies on the ANU web site that are of significance for the history of Australian Racing.

Tom Peyton - trainer

http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/payten-thomas-tom-7992

Payten trained at least 200 winners of fully 550 races, including 5 A.J.C. and 4 Victoria Derbys, 4 A.J.C. and 5 V.R.C. St Legers, and 3 Sydney cups. However, he never managed to win a Melbourne Cup: although Abercorn was not started in the 1889 cup, Payten always maintained that he 'was a better stayer than Carbine. He could go further, at top speed, than any other horse I have known'.


Sir Colin Stephen - Owner, Committeeman AJC and best known for the main lead up race to the Metropolitan

http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/stephen-sir-colin-campbell-1285

A committee-member of the Australian Jockey Club from 1912, he sat on (Sir) Adrian Knox's sub-committee which framed the rules of racing that year. As chairman of the A.J.C. from October 1919, Stephen was determined 'to make racing in New South Wales a clean and healthy pastime'. His revised rules were adopted throughout Australia in 1933. After protracted litigation and an appeal to the Privy Council, in 1936 he eventually won the right for the A.J.C. committee to disqualify the bookmaker Rufe Naylor.



Sir Adrian Knox - Owner, Committeeman AJC, Chief Justice of the High Court and Parliamentarian - the AJC Oaks was for many years known as the Adrian Knox Stakes - now the name of a different race,

http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/knox-sir-adrian-6989


Tom Hales - champion jockey

For James Wilson, master of the powerful St Alban's (Geelong) stable and stud, Hales won the Victorian Derby and Oaks on the filly Briseis, and for William Long won the 1880 Australian Jockey Club Derby, the Victorian Derby and the Melbourne Cup on the unbeaten Grand Flaneur. He also rode for Etienne De Mestre, but it was association with James White of Kirkham stud, New South Wales, that won him repute as 'the [Fred] Archer of Australia'. Chiefly on White's horses, notably Abercorn, he won three Sydney Cups, six Australian Jockey Club Derbys and seven St Legers, seven Victoria Derbys and ten St Legers, and six Australasian Champion cups. In 1872-94 from 1678 mounts he won 496 races, had 332 seconds and 195 thirds, the prize money totalling £336,680.

http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/hales-thomas-tom-3691


Etienne De Mestre - trainer of Archer and many other champions in the earliest days and who has a tragic tale to tell.

In 1859 he trained Veno, the winner of the first intercolonial Champion Challenge race in Melbourne. In 1861 and 1862 de Mestre won the first two Melbourne Cups with his horse Archer. In 1863 de Mestre again planned to run Archer despite his weight of 11 stone 4 pounds, but the Victoria Racing Club scratched him because de Mestre's telegraphed acceptance arrived late.

http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/de-mestre-etienne-livingstone-3391


Rupert (Rufus or Rufe) Naylor - bookie/gambler extraordinaire

Rupert Theodore (Rufus) Naylor (1882-1939), sporting entrepreneur and gambler, was born on 14 August 1882 at Chippendale, Sydney, third son of Henry John Naylor, native-born labourer, and his South Australian wife Susannah, née Phillips. After basic education at West Wyalong, from 12 he worked as a miner and at 17 was a licensed bookmaker.

http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/naylor-rupert-theodore-rufus-7730


Cyril Angels - racecaller

http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/angles-cyril-joseph-9367


David Hugh (Darby) Munro - champion jockey

At 15 Munro had his first ride, at 6 st. 9 lb. (42 kg), in the Melbourne Cup; in 1923 he was second on Rivoli, but won on Windbag in 1925 and on Statesman in 1928. His first big win had been on Prince Charles, owned by John Brown, in the 1922 Sydney Cup. In the 1920s he won many major races in Sydney and Melbourne on several other outstanding horses, including Phar Lap, Amounis and Valicare.

http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/munro-david-hugh-darby-7809


Jack Holt - champion trainer

In the seventeen seasons from 1918-19 to 1934-35 he headed the Victorian Trainers' Premiership on thirteen occasions, came second on three and third once. His horses won all the important cups in Melbourne and Sydney, practically every major handicap and weight-for-age race in the V.R.C. and Australian Jockey Club calendars, as well as many events on country courses.

http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/holt-michael-jack-6719


The Wootton Family

http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/wootton-richard-rawson-dick-13256

Perce Galea

http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/galea-percival-john-perce-10268


Offline Peter Mair

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« 2020-May-17, 10:17 PM Reply #198 »

Australian racing has a wonderful history


.......  a history now turned to nostalgic tripe as state administrators now make a mockery of the the integrity of that history.

............  history built the brand and the punters loyalty ...... inflated-field racing destroys both.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2020-May-18, 12:56 AM Reply #199 »

Australian racing has a wonderful history


.......  a history now turned to nostalgic tripe as state administrators now make a mockery of the the integrity of that history.

............  history built the brand and the punters loyalty ...... inflated-field racing destroys both.

With ya Pete. Bring back the flag starts and 42 kg limits  emthup


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