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Jackals Top 10 Horses - Racing Talk - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: Jackals Top 10 Horses  (Read 63966 times)

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Offline timw

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« 2018-Oct-25, 09:53 PM Reply #425 »
The Sportsman's 100 from 2000 had Gunsynd at no 60 which i think is insulting.  Here is the stuff as posted by pwa on 20 May 2014.-

Mountain King is a forgotten horse as well although surprisingly the Sportsmanís Greatest 100 magazine from 2000 had him as number 28!
For anyone who might be interested, hereís their list of the ď100 greatest thoroughbreds to grace racetracks in Australia during the last centuryĒ

1. Phar Lap
2. Tulloch
3. Kingston Town
4. Bernborough
5. Rising Fast
6. Might and Power
7. Peter Pan
8. Wakeful
9. Manikato
10. Galilee
11. Eurythmic
12. Todman
13. Poseidon
14. Vain
15. Ajax
16. Delta
17. Gloaming
18. Better Loosen Up
19. Tobin Bronze
20. Dalray
21. Shannon
22. Dulcify
23. Octagonal
24. Prince Foote
25. Redcraze
26. Letís Elope
27. Windbag
28. Comic Court
29. Mountain King
30. Light Fingers
31. Poitrel
32. Saintly
33. Balmerino
34. Sailorís Guide
35. Limerick
36. Wenona Girl
37. Carbon Copy
38. Vo Rogue
39. Nightmarch
40. Leilani
41. Strawberry Road
42. Beau Vite
43. Amounis
44. Desert Gold
45. Luskin Star
46. Aurieís Star
47. Flight
48. Super Impose
49. Hall Mark
50. Carioca
51. Chatham
52. Surround
53. Evening Peal
54. Rain Lover
55. Bonecrusher
56. Noholme
57. Rivette
58. Dual Choice
59. Trafalgar
60. Gunsynd
61. Red Anchor
62. Hydrogen
63. Fine and Dandy
64. Tranquil Star
65. Rose of Kingston
66. Tontonan
67. Mollison
68. Storm Queen
69. Taj Rossi
70. Tie the Knot
71. Beau Zam
72. Lady Wallace
73. Artilleryman
74. Maybe Mahal
75. Chicquita
76. Russia
77. Valicare
78. Ammon Ra
79. Gothic
80. Placid Ark
81. True Course
82. Trivalve
83. Emancipation
84. Schillachi
85. Baguette
86. Furious
87. High Caste
88. Rogilla
89. Proud Miss
90. Bounding Away
91. Vintage Crop
92. Royal Gem
93. Gold Rod
94. Malt Queen
95. Pago Pago
96. Gay Icarus
97. Lord
98. Hyperno
99. Doriemus
100. Prince Cortauld



Offline tontonan

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« 2018-Oct-25, 10:30 PM Reply #426 »

The glaring omission was Ajax. As Tonto pointed out once, his record was gained during WW2 when there were restrictions on the movement of horses and racetrack closures. The quality of racing during the war was significantly diminished.


No, wasn't me. 

The war time restriction angle applies particularly to Tranquil Star (and even she managed a trip to Sydney before the restrictions came in).  Others such as Bernborough and Shannon and Flight had careers affected by the restrictions but raced on and distinguished themselves after the restrictions were lifted.

Actually I think the era of Ajax was strong and he is one of the more under rated of our champions. 

My angle on Ajax has always been that he was essentially a brilliant sprinter miler who was more or less forced to become a middle distance WFA horse due the absence of a sprinting WFA program in those days.  That he was able to sustain such a winning streak in those circumstances is a credit to his class and the whole 'meat pie champion' thing was just Darby Munro being mischievous.

I agree Mountain King was rated too high by Sportsman.  While his record is comparable to the likes of Prince Foote and Poseidon the bottom line is that he proved to be a hopeless roarer before the end of his 3YO season.  He more of a 'couldabeen anything' story than a bona fide proven champion. 

They also rate Todman too highly in my book, not because he lacked anything in terms of ability but injury prevented him from compiling the sort of record of proof needed to rank at the pointy end. 

It always causes arguments but my view has always been that horses whose careers are comprised by injury 'only have themselves to blame'.  I mean the injury is their weakness and just as much a part of the horse as its strengths.  That Mountain King was a 'roarer' or Todman had fragile fetlocks or Tontonan had bad tendons is not 'bad luck' - it is a deficiency of the horse.

Offline firezuki

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« 2018-Oct-25, 10:50 PM Reply #427 »
Don't know about these war restrictions but Ajax raced against everything - and everything he raced against


was bloody good.  He raced against a great period of very good horses and more than one champion.

Offline Jeunes

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« 2018-Oct-25, 11:19 PM Reply #428 »
I look at Octagonal and think he was quite underrated compared to Lonhro. Maybe not a top 10 horse but should be on the very outskirts.

Octagonal won a G1 as a 2yo and 2nd in 2 others including the Slipper. Won the Cox Plate as a 3yo, after being placed in the Caulfield Guineas, 3yo triple crown in Sydney plus the BMW. Had a shocker of a spring as a 4yo and then managed to win a few more G1s in the Autumn.

He raced against a 3yo crop of Saintly, Filante, Nothin Leica Dane, Flying Spur, Our Maizcay and a few others who were very competitive against the older horses. I caught all of his 3yo and 4yo races in Sydney and I rate them highly. My favourite would have been Dye taking off in the Chipping Norton at the farm and beating Juggler.

There are others in the list like Saintly and Beau Zam who injury free or better ridden would have been even higher.

Beau Zam had some terrible luck or rides in his 3yo spring. I still remember him as a kid coming 2nd in the CC, 5th in the Cox Plate and 7th in the Derby to his stablemate Omnicorp.

Schillachi was another if retired early would have been near the top but the latter years took his gloss away.

What about Mahogany who managed to win Derbies, Guineas, G1 races as 2yo and fitted in a couple of Lightning races too.

We sometimes put too many horses who win for a year or two in greats or champions when there maybe horses who won the same number of G1s but fell away in the latter part of their career as age does catch up.

Offline firezuki

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« 2018-Oct-25, 11:57 PM Reply #429 »

Always felt Mahogany was underrated. 

Online fours

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« 2018-Oct-26, 12:48 AM Reply #430 »
All,

Gunsynd had a song written about him The Goondiwindi Grey.

Obviously got into peoples psyches for a reason.

Fours

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-26, 05:15 AM Reply #431 »
All,

Gunsynd had a song written about him The Goondiwindi Grey.

Obviously got into peoples psyches for a reason.

Fours

That's right. They don't often write songs about horses. Was a true champion in the eyes of the people and easily in my top ten.

A horse we're really proud of, the Goondiwindi Grey.


Offline timw

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« 2018-Oct-26, 06:03 AM Reply #432 »
Another song (never made the top 40) was 'Go Hyperno Go' sung by 'Slim Whittle' which got quite a bit of airplay on 3RRR during their racing program 'Punter to Punter' on Saturday mornings.

Online wily ole dog

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« 2018-Oct-26, 06:19 AM Reply #433 »
The problem with long lists like the one above is I suspect once the author got past a certain point he just threw in names randomly

How in gods name could anyone think Rose of Kingston was a better horse than Emancipation is beyond me

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-26, 06:22 AM Reply #434 »
Another song (never made the top 40) was 'Go Hyperno Go' sung by 'Slim Whittle' which got quite a bit of airplay on 3RRR during their racing program 'Punter to Punter' on Saturday mornings.

Hyperno and Ming Dynasty underline what a good horse Kingston Town was.

Offline pwa54

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« 2018-Oct-26, 06:40 AM Reply #435 »
I think Gunsynd would definitely make a Top 10 most popular champions but Top 10 best of all-time? He's certainly higher than 60 but he's in a category with champions like Chatham, Shannon, Sky High and Super Impose which wouldn't hit most Top 10s of all time.

Quote
We sometimes put too many horses who win for a year or two in greats or champions when there maybe horses who won the same number of G1s but fell away in the latter part of their career as age does catch up

Jeunes' right on the money there. Champions which have their career tragically cut short like Dulcify, will tend to be remembered as much for their unfulfilled potential as their actual results. How much better would Better Loosen Up be ranked if he had been retired after his Australian Cup win over Vo Rogue rather than returned when obviously not the same horse?
Quote
The problem with long lists like the one above is I suspect once the author got past a certain point he just threw in names randomly

It was an erratic list. It was an interesting magazine on a Century of Racing free with the last Sportsman of 1999 but they didn't make much of an effort in the lower numbers.

Offline Wenona

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« 2018-Oct-26, 07:40 AM Reply #436 »
That's right. They don't often write songs about horses......


Luskin Star had a song.   emthup

Around 11.20 if you're interested.

« Last Edit: 2018-Oct-26, 07:42 AM by Wenona »

Online wily ole dog

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« 2018-Oct-26, 07:42 AM Reply #437 »

Jeunes' right on the money there. Champions which have their career tragically cut short like Dulcify, will tend to be remembered as much for their unfulfilled potential as their actual results. How much better would Better Loosen Up be ranked if he had been retired after his Australian Cup win over Vo Rogue rather than returned when obviously not the same horse?.

Imagine how the resumes of the King, Vo Rogue, Gunsynd and their contemporaries would look if they had their careers managed and structured like Black Caviar & Winx :yes:


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