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Jackals Top 10 Horses - Racing Talk - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: Jackals Top 10 Horses  (Read 63871 times)

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Offline Authorized

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« 2014-Jun-16, 09:55 PM Reply #50 »
.

Offline Gintara

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« 2014-Jun-16, 09:59 PM Reply #51 »


Perhaps Choisir is a good example.  Prior to his success in England Choisir was borderline despicable in Australia with a great many who wanted him publicly gelded for his indiscretions.  Win in England- national hero.  If he hadn't go there and done that he would probably be remembered as that nutcase colt in the pacifiers.

 

I was talking to a mate who was living in London at the time and suggested that he go have something on Choisir (think it was 50s or something obscene) My comment was if he lands there and they get his head right as he is a nutcase, he could brain the English lot. He had 20 quid on.

Guess who had nothing on himself  :rolleyes:

Offline firezuki

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« 2014-Jun-16, 10:05 PM Reply #52 »
A gentleman never tells. 

Offline The Jackal

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« 2014-Jun-16, 11:20 PM Reply #53 »
Nice horse but we are talking about Australia's best and winning our best is not there on that resume, well not enough to place him in the top 20 since 1970

Good horse Balmerino, poorly managed, I think the owner must have been telling the trainer what to do because his career was a dartboard job.
Strange record at stud, most of his stock seemed to be looking for 2 miles, no champions but his progeny were durable and tough. Still highly sought after bloodlines.
He was the 15th foal of a champion broodmare and he was a half brother to the dam of Surround and Purple Patch.

Alleged was the last horse to win the Arc De Triomphe back to back but was Timeform rated at only 138 due to the fact he was bred in the USA.




Offline The Jackal

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« 2014-Jun-16, 11:35 PM Reply #54 »
Cheyne Walk was a ripper

Bloody shame it's so hard to find the race records of these horses

Cheyne Walk won a Spring Champion, Queensland Derby and Doomben Cup.
He also was the highest weighted winner on the Listed Carrington Stakes in the past 40 years.
However he was a shit sire.

Offline Authorized

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« 2014-Jun-17, 12:21 AM Reply #55 »


Alleged was the last horse to win the Arc De Triomphe back to back but was Timeform rated at only 138 due to the fact he was bred in the USA.





How many horses have received more than 138 ? "only" 138 You really have no idea.

Offline The Jackal

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« 2014-Jun-17, 09:08 AM Reply #56 »
How many horses have received more than 138 ? "only" 138 You really have no idea.

At least 17 have been allocated at 138 and above.

Reference Point received a rating of 139, he ran 8th in the Arc De Triomphe.

Offline fours

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« 2014-Jun-17, 09:33 AM Reply #57 »
Hmmmm,

What was Deep Impact's peak Timeform rating.... they were not rating Japanese horses at this time...

How many lengths would Deep Impact beat Makybe Diva by - I say 3.5 lengths at least!

Fours

Offline The Jackal

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« 2014-Jun-17, 09:49 AM Reply #58 »
Hmmmm,

What was Deep Impact's peak Timeform rating.... they were not rating Japanese horses at this time...

How many lengths would Deep Impact beat Makybe Diva by - I say 3.5 lengths at least!

Fours


Timeform rated Deep Impact at  134 for that performance in the Tenno Sho.
Their own Harbinger was rated 140 for beating 5 horses in the King George.

Offline The Jackal

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« 2014-Jun-17, 11:24 AM Reply #59 »
It should be noted that since Timeform came up with this ridiculous Euro bias rating system, that only the American horse Doctor Fager has actually carried or exceeded his timeform rating on the track itself.

Offline The Jackal

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« 2014-Jun-17, 11:41 AM Reply #60 »
Another small titbit of Timeforms genius.     :what:

So You Think         134
Balmerino             133
Strawberry Road  128
Better Loosen Up 128
Horlicks                 126





Offline tontonan

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« 2014-Jun-17, 01:07 PM Reply #61 »
Cheyne Walk in a nutshell

Cheyne Walk
20 starts 9 wins 3 seconds 5 thirds $163,985
Son of the Golden Slipper winner Fairy Walk

He had 17 starts as a 3YO winning his first two starts in the Spring before running third to Rosie Heir in the  Canterbury Guineas and 6th in the Rosehill Guineas but missed the Derby.  He won races at Rosehill and Randwick before beating Rosie Heir and Ngawyni in the Phar Lap Stakes before finishing 5th to Balmerino and Lord Dudley in the Tulloch Stakes (I'm pretty sure they broke the record).  He was sent out at 80/1 in the Champion Sks and beat Lord Dudley right on the line in race record time.  Balmerino, even money favorite was a disappointing 6th.  They met again in the Grand Prix and Balmerino beat him by a half length then they went their seperate ways.  Cheyne Walk beat Denise's Joy for the Queensland Derby, Balmerino won the O'Shea Sks  (I think on the same day) before Balmerino backed up to win the Brisbane Cup.  Cheyne Walk was kept for the Doomben 10,000 and finished 5th before backing up to win the Doomben Cup.  He was spelled until the new year when he resumed in Melbourne running thirds in the Orr and Blamey Stakes to Surround before running third to Ashbah and How Now in the St George.  That was his last start.

Not a world beater by any means but given the performances of Balmerino abroad he might not have been too far behind the world beaters of the time.

It was a funny season.  A stable virus flattened many horses in Melbourne in a miserable wet Spring and some forgettable results in the classics eventuated.  Sou'Wester in the Guineas, Galena Boy in the Derby.  That was also the spring of Think Big's second cup and Fury's Order's Cox Plate - a race that should never have been run..  The meeting only continued because of the presence of royal personages on course and was abandoned after the Plate.
 


Offline Authorized

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« 2014-Jun-17, 01:43 PM Reply #62 »

Timeform rated Deep Impact at  134 for that performance in the Tenno Sho.
Their own Harbinger was rated 140 for beating 5 horses in the King George.

You only ever tell half the story don't you ?

Offline Authorized

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« 2014-Jun-17, 01:46 PM Reply #63 »
It should be noted that since Timeform came up with this ridiculous Euro bias rating system, that only the American horse Doctor Fager has actually carried or exceeded his timeform rating on the track itself.

What rating did Timeform give Dr Fager ?

Why have they got a rating for Dr Fager but not for Secretariat ?

Timeform up until recently was only ever a UK and Irish ratings bureau.

Offline The Jackal

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« 2014-Jun-17, 02:10 PM Reply #64 »
138 for Doctor Fager

Sunday Silence and Easy Goer both received 137.

Pretty sure Secretariat got 144.

Offline Authorized

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« 2014-Jun-17, 02:14 PM Reply #65 »
Where are you getting these from ?

Offline The Jackal

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« 2014-Jun-17, 02:20 PM Reply #66 »
jockeysite.com

Offline Authorized

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« 2014-Jun-17, 02:21 PM Reply #67 »
Seriously ?

Can you post an actual link please ?

Offline Authorized

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« 2014-Jun-17, 02:24 PM Reply #68 »
http://jockeysite.com/jnews/jockey_timeform.htm

I am not sure these are correct.

Timeform as far as I am aware never at ratings for the likes of Citation and Hyperion and anything before about 1945.

Offline Authorized

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« 2014-Jun-17, 02:35 PM Reply #69 »
Whether they are correct or not and I suspect they are not, Its interesting the first 3 on that list, where French, American and Italian. Seems strange for a UK biased organisation.

Why hasn't it been updated ?

Offline The Jackal

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« 2014-Jun-17, 03:23 PM Reply #70 »
Which figures are incorrect?

Perhaps you could phone them and they could take enough time out from performing the "dutch rudder" on each other to give you some feedback on their ratings system.
You would have them on speed dial wouldn't you?

Offline Authorized

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« 2014-Jun-17, 03:28 PM Reply #71 »
One of their ilk advised me a while ago, Whilst Frankel was at his zenith, that Secretariat, if he was rated by Timeform taking a line through his speed figures would have rated around the 155 mark.

The fact of the matter was, this gentleman did not have any ratings for Secretariat on file, so for the sight highlighted here to have all these ratings you have to wonder where they got them from.

As I said, Timeform never rated the likes of Hyperion and company.


Offline The Jackal

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« 2014-Jun-17, 03:32 PM Reply #72 »
Are you sure he didn't extrapolate the Beyer speed figure that the Americans use?
That is the figure that would have given Secretariat the Timeform figure close to the mid 150's.
That is probably where he was getting his material from.

Offline Authorized

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« 2014-Jun-17, 03:54 PM Reply #73 »
Are you sure he didn't extrapolate the Beyer speed figure that the Americans use?
That is the figure that would have given Secretariat the Timeform figure close to the mid 150's.
That is probably where he was getting his material from.


Yes that is correct.

Which still raises the question of where the website you posted got their "timeform ratings" from.


Offline The Jackal

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« 2014-Jun-17, 04:05 PM Reply #74 »
Yes that is correct.

Which still raises the question of where the website you posted got their "timeform ratings" from.




Probably the same source.
Was he wearing an anorak and hanging around the men's toilets?


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