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Offline dubbledee

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O.P. « 2009-Jan-12, 02:39 PM »
Without the coverage in the media, most punters would never have a bet.

While the roles of the print media and radio have declined somewhat they're still the window into racing for lots of us.  But it's the televised race coverage and the internet where we've seen most changes in the last decade or so.   Punters now see and hear so much of the leading trainers and jockeys that they feel they know them as well as they do their next door neighbour.

With the expansion of the racing media has come a disparate band of journos, commentators, tipsters, interviewers, price-assessors, bloggers, analysts, etc.   Some are long-term contributors; others are new-kids-on-the-block.  Some really are experts; others are little more than talking heads.  Some love the industry and are genuinely committed to its welfare; others are rip-off merchants peddling shonky tips.  It should not be unexpected that media personnel are under continuous scrutiny from the racing audience and bear the brunt of some savage criticism.   Hard-marking punters treat failed tipsters as they would a publican serving hot beer.

Let's post our comments, criticisms and praise of the racing media on this thread.

Offline dubbledee

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« 2009-Jan-12, 03:02 PM Reply #1 »
From Saturday....

On Sky during the Magic Millions coverage Matthew Browning did a short interview with Hong Kong trainer Andreas Schultz.  As a follow up to his praise of the MM event, MB then enquired of the HK visitor "Do you have anything like this in Hong Kong?'. :nowink:

And Matthew continues to tell us about "pitchers" when re really means "pictures".

I reckon Twba caller Pat O'Shea used about 5 different pronunciations for race favourite JE SUIS ROCKSTAR on Saturday evening.  None were even close to correct.  Pat, it's "jerr swee rockstar".

Offline Racehorses

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« 2009-Jan-12, 09:00 PM Reply #2 »
DD I heard it and I thought maybe he will ask if they have chinese restaurants in HK   :lol:

Offline GRUMPY

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« 2009-Jan-12, 09:06 PM Reply #3 »
saint or sinner. ??????????

The sale where money changes pockets rather than hands
Email Printer friendly version Normal font Large font John Schell
January 12, 2009

Page 1 of 2 | Single page
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Racing: Waterhouse splashes out on $2m colt
Hayes handed reins to guide Choice colt
WELCOME to "Rortsville", better known as the Magic Millions sale. An extravaganza where million-dollar babies make headlines. But does money really change hands?

"This is a good walking colt," screams the auctioneer as a juvenile enters the ring.

Good walker. Please. Aren't thoroughbreds supposed to run?

At $2 million for the sale-topping Encosta De Lago colt you'd want a really fast horse. Or would you?

"This colt has a real stallion's pedigree," is another catchcry. "You've bought yourself a nice colt there."

Over the past five days, 885 yearlings were catalogued for sale at the Gold Coast.

Gai Waterhouse will train the $2m colt as well as a $1m Redoute's Choice colt. A $1.2m Redoute's Choice-Kapchat colt will go to the stables of David Hayes while he will also train a $1.1m colt by the same super stallion.

Those high prices look great in the sale statistics. They bump up the average and tell us what a success it's been despite the global economic crisis.

Great things happen at Rortsville.

And just who will race the $2m baby that is a brother to champion Sydneysider Racing To Win? Surely not worldwide breeding giant Coolmore Stud, which offered the colt for sale?

Of course it will. The Coolmore crew indicated it would keep part of the colt to race then breed with him. The remaining shares, however many, will be on-sold at the inflated sale price of $2m.

Take a look at the $1m Redoute's Choice-Strawberry Girl colt. Another with "a stallion's pedigree".

He was sold on account of Strawberry Hill Stud. That is the stud of advertising boss John Singleton, who is a part-owner of Magic Millions.

Singo has always been a great supporter of his own sale. Sells plenty of horses but buys plenty back. Don't be surprised if this one graces the track under the ownership of John Singleton and friends. He could even win next year's Magic Millions Classic sporting Singo's silks.

What about Hayes's $1.2m purchase. What a lovely looking colt he was. Well worth the money. What money?

The horse, offered by Widden Stud, was purchased as a weanling for around $620,000 by Peter Devitt and Les Gordon. After Hayes was announced as its trainer, who do you think he said he would prepare it for? Peter Devitt and Les Gordon. Yet another buy back.

There's nothing illegal or wrong with buying a horse back that you've offered for sale. But to most people the practice may seem to be aimed at obtaining the greatest benefit while remaining inside the law - Rortsville. Just be open about it.

There's no doubt buy-backs are going to continue to occur, especially at Rortsville where to be eligible for the Magic Millions races a horse has to be sold at a MM sale.

Pay the commission to MM, then fork out a nomination fee to be included in the Magic Millions race series. Seems a cheap way to qualify for a potentially lucrative payday.

MM managing director David Chester was wary before the sale that it might be slow given the tough financial times. He rated day one as "a six out of 10" with the clearance rate at 70 per cent.

But by the end of the main sale he was satisfied with the results, and so he should be.

Not all horses sold at Rortsville are pre-sale deals done to appease breeders and sale operators.

Lot 531 fetched $750,000 and was purchased for a Hong Kong owner. And there was also yearlings that Ron Croghan bought to race with Newcastle trainer Kris Lees, among them a Redoute's Choice colt for $620,000. No rort there, just cash from a wealthy man.

The same man who bought champion filly Samantha Miss from the Sydney Easter sale for $1.5m. She's already won that back, and some more, and Croghan's putting the money back into racing.

No doubt MM appreciates his support. Come back to Rortsville soon.

Offline Norton

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« 2009-Jan-13, 06:18 AM Reply #4 »

Based on Schell's info, what is your gut feel on how far down the real prices were.  MM are claiming 16%.  Anyone know what the passed in figure was?

Does anyone know if the rort is an indistry wide thing or just a Magic Millions quirk because of the sales related races downstream.  Maybe we need integrity services for the breeding / sales industries.  Gee, and to think people claimed Betfair was naughty.

Online wily ole dog

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« 2009-Jan-13, 08:05 AM Reply #5 »
The mob in the Sunday papers are the laziest & worst in the game.

Unless you spanking the monkey because you've backed the winner theres no point in reading any articles in the Sunday papers.
You never get told about the race, how it was run, who was unlucky.

Just some froth and bubble gushing about the winner or connection.......who cares

Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2009-Jan-13, 09:10 AM Reply #6 »

I gave away buying the Sunday papers years ago, about when they started printing them on Saturday morning.

Offline dubbledee

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« 2009-Jan-13, 09:17 AM Reply #7 »
The "revelation" by John Schell that some of the top-selling lots at MM are in reality "buy-backs" is nothing new.  But that doesn't mean he should not revisit the issue, and he gets a tick from me.  His item seems to be based on fact, and it's all the more relevant, IMO, when the buy-backs involve one of the principals of MM.

Since racing started, horses have been bought and raced in "dummy" names.  Not so long ago it was well known that a TAB Chairman raced horses in the pseudonym of "Anthony Dare'.  This was done with endorsement by the controlling body.  Not sure what the rationale was, other than to protect the owner from the eyes of the tax-men.  While that practice is now prohibited, I expect there are many horses raced in Australia in the names of real people, who have neither paid for the horse with their money, nor provide for its upkeep.  There was an incident in Victorian racing along these lines last year.

It's understandable that MM promoters want to trumpet high averages and clearance rates, but they lose credibility when it's made known that the top lots were "buy-backs".  Whether it's a "rort" will depend on the dictionary you use.  And we should not presume that only MM are at fault.

The practice is difficult to stop, since agents buy many of the yearlings.   While that can provide a temporary shield, all will be revealed when the horse steps out on the racetrack under the breeder's colours.   Sales' people could regain some "cred" by ensuring that vendors declare their interest in "buy-backs" and excluding such sales when calculating sales' averages, etc.

Offline poxdoctor

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« 2009-Jan-13, 09:37 AM Reply #8 »
This is a good article by Schell. It certainly beats some of the other fluff written by hacks at the sales on a junket. Hopefully he follows through with it and continues to report this sort of stuff.

A sales code of practice has been mooted so that these buy backs are declared and other dodgy practices are banned (such as 'bungs' from vendors to buyers). But they're so ingrained that no one really wants to give them up it seems. Unless a code of practice was linked to real penalties it would be just fluff anyway.

Offline dubbledee

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« 2009-Jan-13, 10:08 AM Reply #9 »
Yeah, Dr,  but we could be optimists and hope that the Sales' owners could see the benefits in improving their reputations.  Or maybe they don't read the media, and think we're all fools.

"Self-regulation" works OK in other industries.  Dunno why the breeding world should be exempt from some level of control.

Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2009-Jan-13, 10:32 AM Reply #10 »
Do these "buy-backs" distort the sale averages by that much?

I'd think by only the premium that the buy-back bid was in excess of the top third-party bid.

The more distorting practice is the exclusion of the passed-in lots.

A better percentage to examine to determine the interest generated by a Sale would be the total of the top bids for all lots divided by the number of lots offered, whether sold or passed in.

What did Disraeli say?

Lies, damned lies, and statistics?

Offline dubbledee

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« 2009-Jan-13, 11:24 AM Reply #11 »
Some highly perceptive punting advice from just racing.

The story would have been totally different had Paprika won.

Offline poxdoctor

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« 2009-Jan-13, 11:42 AM Reply #12 »
Yeah, Dr,  but we could be optimists and hope that the Sales' owners could see the benefits in improving their reputations.  Or maybe they don't read the media, and think we're all fools.

"Self-regulation" works OK in other industries.  Dunno why the breeding world should be exempt from some level of control.

  :lol:  I don't reckon Singo has ever been concerned about his reputation.

Self regulation might work ok in some industries, but there are some where it's a shambles as well. If you were to ask breeders across the country whether there should be controls in place, most would answer yes, particularly smaller ones who would benefit most from greater transparency.

Offline Jeunes

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« 2009-Jan-14, 07:54 AM Reply #13 »
Below article from the Ken Callender. Why are the media suddenly turning on Hong kong after so much positive stories. Is it because it is bigger than australian racing at times with more o/s horses racing in their cups.

Why the support for our Hong Kong rivalsArticle from: Font size: Decrease Increase Email article: Email Print article: Print Submit comment: Submit comment By Ken Callander

January 14, 2009 12:00am

WHEN Ross McDonald outlined plans for Weekend Hussler at Rosehill last Saturday there were three races in Melbourne in his program, one in Dubai and one in Hong Kong.

Sydney did not rate a mention.

Yet you still find some media men and administrators who trip over themselves to stay sweet with Hong Kong.

Wouldn't it have been nice to see The Hussler set for the Ryder Stakes, the Doncaster or the All Aged Stakes?

Hong Kong is one of our racing rivals. Those in power in Honkers don't worry about us and we shouldn't worry about them.

There has been talk during the week that Hong Kong buyers may not be active at the Inglis sale at Easter, because of the Chris Munce affair. This followed the Hong Kong Jockey Club representative Mark Player being more active than usual at the Magic Millions at the Gold Coast, where he spent $3.41 million on 19 yearlings.

If Player wants to buy at the second best sale and boycott the premier sale that is his prerogative. As a former employee of the VRC he would know the breeding industry does not run the Australian racing industry.

I KNOW Gary Portelli's Redoute's Choice colt Lighthorseman flopped at his only start when a short-priced favourite at Rosehill in August, but you should have seen him trial on Friday morning. He won't be flopping this time in.

THERE is definitely a dearth of topline stayers in Sydney and Melbourne.

The Australian Cup, the Caulfield Stakes (the Yalumba), the Cox Plate, the Mackinnon Stakes, the Chipping Norton, the Ranvet, the BMW and the Queen Elizabeth Stakes are Australia's top middle distance races.

With no Lonhro, Makybe Diva, Eremein or Desert War around, how many can name who won the eight races in 2008?

The answer is Sirmione (Australian Cup), Douro Valley (Yalumba), Maldivian (Cox Plate), Theseo (Mackinnon), Casino Prince (Chipping Norton), Tuesday Joy (Ranvet and BMW) and Sarrera (Queen Elizabeth).

They are not really a group to get your pulse racing, are they?

IT is great to see the new board of Racing NSW is not sitting on its hands and held a meeting on Monday with all sections of the industry in relation to programming and the size of Sydney's fields.

IN a coincidence, as of yesterday morning, the Warwick Farm twins, Nathan and Tommy Berry, had each ridden 35 winners this season to sit at the top of the state apprentices' title.

Tommy has been on the sidelines in the past few weeks due to suspension, but he will be back in business at Wyong today and ready to fire.

The two 17-year-olds are rare talents and extremely popular with Farm trainers, not just because of their ability, but because of their work ethic and their eagerness to ride work.

KATHY O'Hara is the leading female rider in the state this season with 35 wins ahead of Leanne Henry, 26, and Jessie Whipp, 19.

Thanks to turf statistician Gowan Williams I can tell you 44 female riders have won races in NSW since August 1 and another 23 have had mounts.

Watch out fellas, the girls are catching up.

MARK Wallace, the 35-year-old Irishman who is setting up stables at Warwick Farm, is a former assistant to Aidan O'Brien.

Since taking out his own licence based at Newmarket in England, Wallace has had good success, including winning a Group One race at Longchamps on Arc day in 2007.

My UK contacts tell me Wallace is an excellent 'money' trainer.

In a recent article the young trainer told Alan Lee of The Times: "People might wonder why I'm leaving when things are going well here, but this is a chance to do something that's never been done before."

MY midweek tip is Foxy One (Race 2) at Canterbury on Thursday night.

Offline woodywob

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« 2009-Jan-14, 08:50 AM Reply #14 »
lol ...... We, NSW racing, told the rest of the racing world to GoFuTh over the Chrissy Muncey affair and now we wonder why we are being snubbed ........

Grow up NSW racing ...... you deserve no part of the REAL RACING WORLD ... you made it clear by giving Munce a licence to ride that you did not want to be part of the rest of the racing world. You chose to stand alone .... and alone you will be ......

Offline westie

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« 2009-Jan-14, 09:10 AM Reply #15 »
Below article from the Ken Callender. Why are the media suddenly turning on Hong kong after so much positive stories. Is it because it is bigger than australian racing at times with more o/s horses racing in their cups....................................Wouldn't it have been nice to see The Hussler set for the Ryder Stakes, the Doncaster or the All Aged Stakes?

Weekend Hussler is being set for the Asian Mile Challenge, well atleast the Futurity Stks on 28 February prior to tackling the Dubai Duty Free at Nad Al Sheba on 28March.  Not sure about the Champions Mile in Hong Kong on 26 April and the Yasuda Kinen in Japan on 7 June.  A horse winning three of the four legs of the AMC collects a US$2million bonus, while there is US$1m on offer for a winner of two legs and I think a nice $US 1/2 million for the trainer that can win three legs.

Offline dubbledee

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« 2009-Jan-21, 03:52 PM Reply #16 »
Gawd, there must be lots of marker posts at Strathalbyn.  Hilton remarked that a horse was badly held up at the 378 metre mark.  Hmmmm....

Offline dubbledee

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« 2009-Jan-22, 05:53 PM Reply #17 »
Just Joking is trying to tell us he gets lots of emails asking for information on common horse problems.  Yeah, I bet.  :lol:

He's a proven veterinary expert, diagnosing sore teeth, sketetal problems, etc etc etc - all from the videos.  An undiscovered genius!!!

Offline Lucky

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« 2009-Jan-22, 06:28 PM Reply #18 »

 u posted a blog ?? of a chap that did QLD racing - no not your mate phil- woudl you still have the link please?

Offline dubbledee

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« 2009-Jan-22, 06:34 PM Reply #19 »

Offline dubbledee

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« 2009-Jan-22, 06:46 PM Reply #20 »
Just on the item on TETANUS from the "expert" on the site where you get only on earth could anyone write a "layman's" explanation of tetanus without mentioning:

1. Tetanus is due to a BACTERIUM (name Clostridium tetani).

2. That the spores of C tetani will become living ONLY in anaerobic conditions (i.e. no oxygen or very low oxygen).  So puncture wounds, or wounds that close over are the ones of most concern.  An open wound will rarely lead to tetanus.  Horse manure, garden soil, is the typical source of the spores of C tetani.

3. The reason clinical tetanus is so difficult to treat is that it's due to a TOXIN produced by the bacterium as they grow.  Unlike other bacterial infections which are treated with drugs that kill the organism, tetanus requires special supportive therapy (anti-toxins, etc), or it can be rapidly fatal.

Microbiology 101. :nowink:

Offline dubbledee

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« 2009-Jan-22, 07:00 PM Reply #21 »
Just had a read of the recent reports on Graham Potter's blogspot:

Anyone who's betting on SE Qld would be doing themselves a favour by printing the reviews GP publishes.  How lucky we are to finally have a credible website dedicated to SEQ racing.  Dunno how long he can keep doing it, but it's a like a breath of fresh air compared to the puerile rubbish posted elsewhere.  emthup

Offline Jeunes

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« 2009-Jan-27, 09:03 AM Reply #22 »
Real Saga not as impressive as More JoyousArticle from: Font size: Decrease Increase Email article: Email Print article: Print Submit comment: Submit comment By Ken Callander

January 26, 2009 12:00am

BOOM colt Real Saga resumed racing with a super win at Randwick on Saturday, but did he go as good as More Joyous did at Rosehill the week before?

I don't think so.

More Joyous turned in the two-year-old run of the season, with the eye-catcher being the zip she showed in leaving her rivals standing in the home straight.

Nevertheless Real Saga is way above average and he is in very good hands with John Hawkes and his sons, Michael and Wayne, plotting his campaign.

It will be interesting to see how Real Saga lines up against top Melbourne youngsters like the Steve Richards-trained Rostova now he is committed to going south for the Blue Diamond.

The first of the Blue Diamond previews are set down for Caulfield today with Rostova $1.90 on TAB Fixed Odds in the fillies race and Gruenfeld $2.90 in the colts and geldings division.

Rostova's win at Flemington on Melbourne Cup day is well-remembered, but Gruenfeld, an Elvstroem colt trained by Mick Price, is a "smoky".

Gruenfeld has not been produced in any official trials, but his ability is well known to Caulfield regulars and TAB price assessors have made him favourite ahead of the unbeaten Peter Snowden-trained Rarefied ($5.50).

GRUENFELD is a perfect example of the situation that has existed in Melbourne of horses not having to trial before they race.

How silly is it that punters are asked to bet on or against Gruenfeld today and yet they know absolutely nothing of his ability. Yet you can be sure he has had a number of unofficial trials, or "jumpouts", at Caulfield and his performances noted by those "in the know".

Punters put on racing, not those who are "in the know".

Thank god the situation in Melbourne is finishing and from April 1 all horses will have to trial before they race. Congratulations to whoever made the decision.

Punters in Melbourne will no longer be robbed.

Pressure on Wyong

KEVIN Greene, the Gaming and Racing Minister, is meeting with Gosford and Wyong race clubs on Thursday to discuss the future of the NSW racing industry.

I would be surprised if the topic of amalgamation doesn't come up.

Wyong is also under the pump from several of its local trainers in relation to training facilities at the track, an issue that might blow up big-time.

THE Australian Joke Club is apparently doing a lot better than a lot of us realised because it paid bonuses to its two executives, Norman Gillespie and Richard Freedman, at the end of November.

Gillespie and Freedman already take home more than $1 million between them annually and, if my report is right, the bonuses total more than $300,000.

I asked two committeemen on Saturday if the handing out of the bonuses was voted on by the board and I was told it wasn't. Who is running the place then?

I HAVE to thank the jockey who sent a message to let me know he is one of the two hoops in the closed-door stewards inquiry centring on the betting of a particular punter.

I appreciate the gentleman's thought, but I did have him in the frame before the message. He was a short-priced favourite.

Nosed out by the angle

THE notoriously tricky finishing angle at Randwick got me again on Saturday when I was sure Baby Casino had won the last only to find he was beaten by a nose by Anatomica.

Baby Casino, who would have given Chris Waller a winning treble, showed a great will to win after he was accidentally hit on the nose by Dan Nikolic on third placegetter Abbacina as he fought his way through a narrow opening.

Run of the day

REAL Saga. A class youngster who has already won $102,000 and there is a lot more to come.

Ride of the day

ROD Quinn on Baby Casino. Beaten, but showed poise and nerve to drive his mount through a narrow gap.

Forget it ran

ELECTRIC Hatter. Beaten a long way out when he could not lead in Baha's race and unlikely to back up today.

The above article from Ken sums up some of the way racing clubs are run. I know someone who at the AJC who along with many of his work colleagues who work on the coal face were told last year that they were redundant because of the wages etc. Now when you read the big two in Gillespie and Freedman took home $300k in bonuses, it justs shows why race clubs should merge.

When you consider how little some of the race clubs provide for an ordinary racegoer, is it no wonder the only way AJC gets big crowds is to target the alcohol drinking society who make it inhospitable for many racegoers on carnival days. After paying around $20 for racebook (lots of ads and crappy form)and entry on a normal day, the humble racegoer bumps elbows at every corner and can only listen to certain races at the Auditorium. Compare this to sitting in front of Sky at home with your computer on to watch the fluctuations etc.

 I wonder what people think of merging race clubs and chucking the savings back into stakes for the actual races.

Offline calgary

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« 2009-Jan-27, 10:20 AM Reply #23 »
And surely racing is put on by the owners not the punters.

Here's a thought Ken - if there is a hot pot unraced 2yo in that race - don't have a bet!

Offline dubbledee

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« 2009-Jan-27, 11:03 AM Reply #24 »
Without OWNERS there'd be no RACING.

Without PUNTERS there'd be no PRIZEMONEY.

Take ya pick which group is indispensable.