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Moody Kavanagh OBrien all have the Cobalt Blues. - Racing Talk - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: Moody Kavanagh OBrien all have the Cobalt Blues.  (Read 341003 times)

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Offline arthur

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« 2018-Mar-01, 05:12 PM Reply #2375 »
Courts in all jurisdictions seem prepared to accept defenses / excuses that a schoolteacher wouldn't accept from a 13 year old kid . .

The greatest deterrent to criminal activity is thinking that you probably won't get away with it . .

That deterrent has virtually disappeared in all areas of our life . .


The 'summary justice' dispensed by those old 'tough but fair' stewards, may not have been perfect, but was probably better than what we have now

Offline nemisis

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« 2018-Mar-01, 07:17 PM Reply #2376 »
I was trying to see some reference in the judgement that referred to the $1000.00 vitamin injections but couldn't see anything.

Would anybody pay that much for an injection and not want to know what made it so expensive?

The old term "cheats never prosper" lost all it's meaning long ago.

Offline gunbower

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« 2018-Mar-01, 07:27 PM Reply #2377 »
Spot on Nemisis. It is a ----load of vitamins.

Offline Arsenal

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« 2018-May-07, 09:23 AM Reply #2378 »
Bruce Clarke on Press Room today reported VCAT decision on costs of the Cobalt case was handed down "quietly" on Friday evening ...all parties to bear their own costs ..that'll be a significant cost to the plaintiffs O'Brien Kavanagh as the daily costs charged by VCAT are their responsibility plus whatever legal fees their lawyers charge....Bruce also said a civil case claiming damages to the trainers' reputations is still alive.

Giddy Up :beer:

Online fours

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« 2018-May-07, 01:29 PM Reply #2379 »
Arsenal,

Are the trainers suing the judge for declaring they are merely naive foolish victims of the evil vet and have not got a clue what they are doing nor about the proper cost of vitamins?

Fours

Offline Arsenal

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« 2018-May-07, 05:42 PM Reply #2380 »
Arsenal,

Are the trainers suing the judge for declaring they are merely naive foolish victims of the evil vet and have not got a clue what they are doing nor about the proper cost of vitamins?

Fours

Fours I only know that they're said to be taking a civil case the prospects of success IMO would be long odds......write your own ticket.


AR.197. No person shall be entitled to make any claim for damages by reason or in consequence of
the imposition, annulment, removal, mitigation, or remission of any penalty imposed or purporting to
be imposed under the Rules. [amended 1.9.09]



Giddy Up :beer:
« Last Edit: 2018-May-07, 06:57 PM by Arsenal »

Offline Arsenal

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« 2018-Jun-11, 07:58 PM Reply #2381 »
VCAT decision on Kavanagh & O'Brien's claim against RV for limited costs strongly resisted by RV extensive reasons for decision make interesting reading it pays not to jump to conclusions in the end Garde P decided it was fair for both sides to bear their own costs.......in passing he made the comment that nothing in his comments should be taken to refer to the trainers civil action against Dr Brennan and the Flemington Vet Clinic.......any thoughts that they might be suing RV were well astray.

http://www8.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/vic/VCAT/2018/674.html?context=1;query=%22review%20and%20regulation%20list%22;mask_path=au/cases/vic/VCAT

Conclusion

Having regard to all of the considerations urged by the parties in their written submissions, and after having assessed the considerations listed in s 109(3)(a)–(e), I am not satisfied for the purposes of s 109(3) that it is fair to make any order for costs.

While the proceeding was hard fought, there was nothing done by RVL in the conduct of the proceeding that would merit an award of costs against it.

There is no doubt that the horses concerned raced following administration of a prohibited substance. It is the duty of the stewards and RVL to do all that they can to bring those responsible to justice, and to bring proceedings before the RAD Board and this Tribunal.

In my view, it is in the interests of justice in the circumstances of this case that the ordinary rule of the Tribunal, namely that parties bear their own costs should prevail.

Nothing I say is intended to affect any civil claims that the applicants may have against Dr Brennan or the Flemington Equine Clinic.

I decline to make any order under s 109(2) that any party pay all or a specified part of the costs of the other party in those proceedings. The result is that the parties will bear their own costs in each proceeding. The Tribunal will make orders in each proceeding accordingly.

Giddy Up :beer:

Offline deepthroat

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« 2018-Jul-14, 10:26 AM Reply #2382 »
Monday it begins again in Victoria for the Hopes- a VCAT hearing under Judge Garde, to be heard in the Supreme Court (where he now sits)...
VERY interesting retest results coming through from around the country... and a lot of world class experts to refute racing’s narrative...
Sadly it’s doubtful any racing media will be there... their masters will not allow them to report on the latest developments and inevitable ‘about face’...
 :whistle:

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Jul-14, 07:22 PM Reply #2383 »
Monday it begins again in Victoria for the Hopes- a VCAT hearing under Judge Garde, to be heard in the Supreme Court (where he now sits)...
VERY interesting retest results coming through from around the country... and a lot of world class experts to refute racing’s narrative...
Sadly it’s doubtful any racing media will be there... their masters will not allow them to report on the latest developments and inevitable ‘about face’...
 :whistle:

What do you mean that "a lot of world class experts to refute racing’s narrative" in relation to cobalt?

Are you telling me that all those social media experts who were commenting on Cobalt, and have no chemistry knowledge, might have been actually parroting someone else's mistakes?

Go on get out of here deepthroat. How dare you question the media's narrative on Cobalt. I know the media (social and mainstream) is often wrong or likes to overstate things that are not extreme to make them extreme without any informed opinion backing them up.

And that politicians now accept this media narrative as the basis of policy development?

But it could never happen, could it?

Offline Arsenal

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« 2018-Jul-16, 05:51 PM Reply #2384 »
Hopes plead guilty to lesser cobalt charge
Hopes plead guilty to lesser cobalt charge Lee Hope (above) and his son Shannon were back at VCAT on Monday. Photo: Darryl Sherer
Article Author
AAP

16 July 2018
2 Comments
Father and son training partners Lee and Shannon Hope have pleaded guilty to a lesser charge of administering cobalt, arguing it was inadvertent.

The Victorian trainers blame their feeding and supplementation regime for three of their racehorses returning elevated cobalt levels in 2014.

The Hopes deny administering cobalt to affect the horses' performances in races, a more serious charge still being pursued by Racing Victoria.

The trainers pleaded guilty to the lesser charge of administering a prohibited substance as their appeal over their cobalt bans began on Monday.

Defence barrister Rahmin de Kretser said the defence case was there was an inadvertent administration of the substance that led to the cobalt threshold being exceeded.

"There was no intent to exceed that threshold or alter the performance of a horse in a race," he told the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal.

Shannon Hope was responsible for the feeding and supplementation regime the training partnership argue led to Windy Citi Bear, Best Suggestion and Choose recording elevated cobalt levels in 2014.

Lee Hope said he did not see the need to change anything when the cobalt threshold was introduced in April 2014.

"I didn't do anything because I thought the cobalt was in a bottle with the word on it and we weren't using it," he told the hearing.

Hope said he and his son did not alter the feed and supplements program after being told about the cobalt positives, but later made changes under a new vet.

"We felt we haven't done anything wrong, why change anything. So we didn't change anything."

Hope maintained the horses were only given what was disclosed to stewards.

At one point during questioning by RV's barrister Jeff Gleeson QC, Hope said: "You think that I was telling lies then?"

Gleeson: "I'm saying you're telling lies now - you had a better understanding of the cobalt rule than you're saying."

Hope: "No."

Hope denied being aware of the administration of a substance containing cobalt in addition to what was disclosed.

He also denied the administration of supplements, by or on his behalf, was done to make the three horses run faster for longer.

Lee and Shannon Hope are appealing their respective three and five-year disqualifications for administering cobalt to affect the three horses' performances.

Shannon Hope is expected to give evidence on Monday afternoon.ENDS

Obviously a better outcome for them if their "inadvertant" arguments are accepted by the tribunal .......but just as obvious Jeff Gleeson QC and RV aren't buying it and are pressing the serious charges.


Giddy Up :beer:

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2018-Jul-16, 07:58 PM Reply #2385 »


.......the focus on cobalt was new .......... 'no one' knew if it affected performance ......... the idea that respected trainers would deliberately dope a horse flies in the face of the certainty that any irregularity would be found.


Offline Arsenal

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« 2018-Jul-17, 04:40 PM Reply #2386 »
Hopes seek VCAT win
 
racing.com Staff@Racing
3:41pm

The appeal of father-and-son training team Lee and Shannon Hope against lengthy disqualifications for cobalt has begun, with the pair seeking a Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal decision similar to the one that exonerated fellow trainers Danny O'Brien and Mark Kavanagh.

The Hopes have pleaded guilty to the lesser charge of administering a prohibited substance but claim the administrations were inadvertent and the detection of cobalt was due to their feeding and supplementation regime.

Shannon Hope has a five-year ban and his father three years following the Racing Appeals and Disciplinary Board decision in 2015.

Their appeal to VCAT has been 'parked' awaiting the result of O'Brien and Kavanagh's appeals last year to the Court Of Appeal, which found they did not knowingly administer the cobalt, paving the way for VCAT to quash their sanctions.

The Hopes' appeal to VCAT, which is being heard at the Supreme Court, is expected to run into next week.ENDS


==========
Trainer admits lying but denies cheating
Yesterday at 6:05pm by AAP
 Shannon Hope was responsible for feeding and supplementationImage: Getty
Trainer Shannon Hope admits he lied during his cobalt case but denies cheating by giving horses supplements on race days to enhance their performances.

Hope and his father Lee have pleaded guilty to a lesser charge of administering a prohibited substance as they fight their cobalt disqualifications, blaming their feeding and supplementation regime for an inadvertent administration.

Hope admitted he lied to the racing tribunal that banned him for five years and his father for three years for intentionally administering cobalt to affect the performances of three horses in 2014 races.

He told the Racing Appeals and Disciplinary Board that after Victoria introduced a cobalt threshold in April 2014, he checked the labels on products the trainers used.

The 42-year-old on Monday admitted he never checked the products.

Hope said he thought saying he had checked would help after "harsh" questioning of his father at the 2015 hearing.

"It was stupid. I've regretted it ever since," he told the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal.

Racing Victoria barrister Jeff Gleeson QC, who had accused Hope of making things up at the time, suggested the trainer was still lying.

"You're trapped in this lie and you're troubled by the fact that you're potentially bringing your father down with it," Gleeson said.

Hope replied: "No sir."

Gleeson also said: "You didn't think it was such a big cheat to inject commercial supplements on race day. You knew it was wrong but you thought you'd get away with it and you'd do it anyway."

Hope: "No, that's not true."

VCAT heard RV analysis showed only 21 of 1650 race day urine samples over April 2014 to May 2015 returned cobalt levels over 100 micrograms per litre, which was less than the 200 microgram threshold originally imposed.

Ten of those 21 horses were trained by the Hopes, Gleeson said.

RV maintains the trainers are guilty of the more serious charge of administering cobalt to affect a horse's race performance, contending it was to make the horses run faster for longer.

The Hopes' barrister Rahmin de Kretser said the defence case was there was an inadvertent administration that led to the cobalt threshold being exceeded.


Shannon Hope was responsible for the feeding, supplementation and medication regime the defence argued led to Windy Citi Bear, Best Suggestion and Choose's elevated cobalt levels.

The Hopes denied the horses were given supplements and medication in addition to the treatment and feeding regime they disclosed to stewards.

Lee Hope said he did not see the need to change anything when the cobalt threshold was introduced.

"I didn't do anything because I thought the cobalt was in a bottle with the word on it and we weren't using it," he said.

He said they did not alter the feed and supplements program after being told about the cobalt positives as they felt they had done nothing wrong, but later made changes under a new vet.

VCAT heard the Hopes otherwise had unblemished records as licensed persons in racing - Lee over more than 50 years and his son for 28 years.ENDS

Credibility being questioned isn't helpful to their claims of inadvertent administration IMO.

Giddy Up :beer:




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