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Author Topic: Moonee Valley Bias  (Read 3815 times)

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Offline Gintara

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O.P. « 2008-Dec-29, 01:21 PM »
c/racenet.com

Interested in others opinion. I did hear an interview with the curator before chrissy who stated he though there was too many meeting held at MV considering it's size.

Moonee Valley bias - not a good advertisement
Racenet
Monday, 29 December 2008

In an open letter to the Moonee Valley Race Club, Glenn Mills writes - Let us have a look back at the last three night meetings from Moonee Valley.

Moonee Valley Saturday night 27 December 2008 (rail out 2m)
Race 1 - leader wins

Race 2 - leader wins

Race 3 - leica ding best horse in race by far comes from offf speed to win. leader second.

Race 4 - outside leader beats leader

Race 5 - leader wins

Race 6 - leaders go too hard and best horse in race secret flyer swoops and wins. leader still kicks on for fifth

Race 7 - leader, outside leader and behind leader trifecta race

Race 8 - suprise, surprise......leader wins

Moonee Valley previous meeting Friday night 19 December 2008 (rail out 7m)
Race 1 - outside leader wins, leader holds third though looked like running last 100m out.

Race 2 - leader wins

Race 3 - leader wins

Race 4 - leader wins

Race 5 - winner makes move to get outside leader at the 600m mark. leader at 600m mark runs third.

Race 6 - leader wins

Race 7 - leader wins

Race 8 - leader makes lightning move to lead at 600m mark and wins

Moonee Valley Friday night racing 12 December 2008 (rail out 4m)
Race 1 - leader dies early, eased up, race changes complexion, swooper wins

Race 2 - leader sets solid tempo but bolts in

Race 3 - outside leader beats leader, huge gap to rest

Race 4 - leader grabbed on line by horse behind leader

Race 5 - leader bolts in

Race 6 - leader bolts in

Race 7 - 300m mark gazza guru goes from last to first, grabbed on line by horse who had soft run on fence

Race 8 - leader loses irons, race changes complexion 400m from home, swooper wins
Isnít it time that questionswere asked? We know Moonee Valley is a tight track and always favours leaders, but this is doing more than favouring frontrunners. its giving them a MASSIVE advantage, regardless of the rail placement.
 
Many leaders have looked gone on the corner yet magically fought back to win. r2, r8 at MV Saturday night 27/12are great examples of this. Why is this so?
 
Racing's stakeholders are directly affected by this so called bias:
- Trainers will stop bringing their horses to the meeting if they arenít leaders. why travel for miles if you know you cant win before the race starts?
- Punters don't want to bet on a race where form goes out the window and you just back the horse that looks like leading.
- When everyone wants to lead on a horse we are racing tight and risking the safety of horses and jockeys.
As much as I love the Victorian racing scene, this is not a good advertisement for Victorian racing, especially with the likelihood of night Cox Plates in the near future and the heavy weighting towards night racing in RVL's recently released 2020 vision.
 
It will be interesting to hear from RVL or the MVRC in regards to this issue.

Racenet welcomes feedback on this issue. Click here to have your say.

« Last Edit: 2008-Dec-29, 03:08 PM by MagiC~* »

Offline MagiC~*

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« 2008-Dec-29, 01:24 PM Reply #1 »
I don't get it, isn't that how MV has always been ?

It's a goat track with a very short straight ... it is never going to be a Flemington.

Offline Authorized

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« 2008-Dec-29, 01:36 PM Reply #2 »
Than why would you have the "best"  race in Australia there ?

Offline manikato1

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« 2008-Dec-29, 02:07 PM Reply #3 »
I haven't seen any of these races, but...

The original Sandown was always a better track than Moonee Valley, and they have had to build two seperate tracks too hold the amount of racing they hold there, but Moonee Valley now races essentially every week for about three months of the year.  It is simply far too much. I wonder how successful night racing really is, if they need to run every week to make it pay but it causes inconsistent tracks, then maybe they need to rethink the whole night racing concept.

Unless of course MV ends up with a synthetic track, which is not totally out of the question.

Offline woodywob

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« 2008-Dec-29, 02:13 PM Reply #4 »
Arguing any kind of bias on most occassions comes from an empty pocket ..... and I'm sure it does here too. If you can't win by betting on the track and if you want to blame the track for your poor selections then it's time to control yourself and not bet there ....... it's just going to cause you more grief ...

Moonee Valley is a great course....that's why Australasia's greatest WFA race is run there .... great for the horse and the spectator ....

Jockeys who ride the track well are few and far between.

The "trouble" when almost any leader wins a race, any race, not just at MV, is the lack of initiative shown by the losing jocks.

Even the most inexperienced apprentices win races when allowed to dictate in front ... they will rarely win on a swooper ......

Offline Big Wheel

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« 2008-Dec-29, 02:36 PM Reply #5 »


Click here to find out more!    

Moonee Valley bias - not a good advertisement
Racenet
Monday, 29 December 2008

In an open letter to the Moonee Valley Race Club, Glenn Mills writes - Let us have a look back at the last three night meetings from Moonee Valley.

Moonee Valley Saturday night 27 December 2008 (rail out 2m)
Race 1 - leader wins

Race 2 - leader wins

Race 3 - leica ding best horse in race by far comes from offf speed to win. leader second.

Race 4 - outside leader beats leader

Race 5 - leader wins

Race 6 - leaders go too hard and best horse in race secret flyer swoops and wins. leader still kicks on for fifth

Race 7 - leader, outside leader and behind leader trifecta race
Race 8 - suprise, surprise......leader wins

Moonee Valley previous meeting Friday night 19 December 2008 (rail out 7m)
Race 1 - outside leader wins, leader holds third though looked like running last 100m out.

Race 2 - leader wins

Race 3 - leader wins

Race 4 - leader wins

Race 5 - winner makes move to get outside leader at the 600m mark. leader at 600m mark runs third.

Race 6 - leader wins

Race 7 - leader wins

Race 8 - leader makes lightning move to lead at 600m mark and wins
Moonee Valley Friday night racing 12 December 2008 (rail out 4m)
Race 1 - leader dies early, eased up, race changes complexion, swooper wins

Race 2 - leader sets solid tempo but bolts in

Race 3 - outside leader beats leader, huge gap to rest

Race 4 - leader grabbed on line by horse behind leader

Race 5 - leader bolts in

Race 6 - leader bolts in

Race 7 - 300m mark gazza guru goes from last to first, grabbed on line by horse who had soft run on fence
Race 8 - leader loses irons, race changes complexion 400m from home, swooper wins
Isnít it time that questionswere asked? We know Moonee Valley is a tight track and always favours leaders, but this is doing more than favouring frontrunners. its giving them a MASSIVE advantage, regardless of the rail placement.
 
Many leaders have looked gone on the corner yet magically fought back to win. r2, r8 at MV Saturday night 27/12are great examples of this. Why is this so?
 
Racing's stakeholders are directly affected by this so called bias:

    - Trainers will stop bringing their horses to the meeting if they arenít leaders. why travel for miles if you know you cant win before the race starts?
    - Punters don't want to bet on a race where form goes out the window and you just back the horse that looks like leading.
    - When everyone wants to lead on a horse we are racing tight and risking the safety of horses and jockeys.

As much as I love the Victorian racing scene, this is not a good advertisement for Victorian racing, especially with the likelihood of night Cox Plates in the near future and the heavy weighting towards night racing in RVL's recently released 2020 vision.
 
It will be interesting to hear from RVL or the MVRC in regards to this issue.

Racenet welcomes feedback on this issue. Click here to have your say.


Click here to find out more!

 
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Offline woodywob

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« 2008-Dec-29, 03:21 PM Reply #6 »
you wouldnt have the sectional times for those races ? they might tell a different story ....

Offline Authorized

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« 2008-Dec-29, 04:31 PM Reply #7 »
- When everyone wants to lead on a horse we are racing tight and risking the safety of horses and jockeys.


Australian punters could not care less about this factor, just ask Hughie Bowman.

Offline woodywob

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« 2008-Dec-29, 04:45 PM Reply #8 »
Is Hughie Bowman an Australian punter ?

Offline Authorized

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« 2008-Dec-29, 05:07 PM Reply #9 »
No, but he knows and i know what they think like.

Offline woodywob

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« 2008-Dec-29, 05:34 PM Reply #10 »
jockeys thinking  :what:....... now there's a new one ...  :lol:

Offline Authorized

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« 2008-Dec-29, 06:24 PM Reply #11 »
Did you listen to his excuse or his defence after his Josh Jones impersonation at Rosehill ?

Has anybody read the coroners report yet from Danial Baker inquiry ?

Offline Lucky

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« 2008-Dec-29, 06:26 PM Reply #12 »
at present the track is a disgrace- they are running crazy splitts and yet the swoopers are making not an ounce of ground

Offline bgm1409

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« 2008-Dec-29, 07:10 PM Reply #13 »
The track is a disgrace--always has been.  But saying that I have had real good winning days at the last 2 meetings--finally I have woken up to the need to back leaders and am reaping the benefits.

The real solution would be to dig up both the turf track and the harness track (it is a crap track too) and just put in a 1400m harness track like Menangle.

Offline manikato1

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« 2008-Dec-29, 07:19 PM Reply #14 »
bgm,

That's not the silliest idea ever heard, but two things.

1 - Why not just make the turf track into a harness track?
2 - Where do the metro gallop meetings go.  Caulfield is only just recovering from a period where they raced too often and the track became a disgrace, and even though it is new, I wouldn't want to be running too many more meetings a year at Flemington.

Offline bgm1409

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« 2008-Dec-29, 07:26 PM Reply #15 »
There are basically 4 tracks in metro Melbourne--Caufield, Flemington and 2 at Sandown--MV meetings could easily be distributed across all 4 and there's nothing to stop taking meetings to the nearby provincial tracks--lets face it the quality generally isn't much better than provincial anyway

Offline woodywob

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« 2008-Dec-29, 07:39 PM Reply #16 »
just because it is small doesn't make it a shite track ......

why you would not want to race there or be a spectator there is beyond me ......

but then again we are talking about one of the most successful race clubs ever not to mention the successes of the harness racing track over the past 25 years or so ....

surely you guys ... whom I assume are either losing on the punt there or just jealous notherners could learn something from such a successful venue .... but then again you guys have always known better than us Mexicans ...

Offline Authorized

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« 2009-Apr-03, 05:48 PM Reply #17 »
So is there a bias or is EUROPA POINT  a very talented and WELL bred filly ?

Mark

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« 2009-Apr-03, 05:52 PM Reply #18 »
I live just around the corner and I love the track. Its my second home   :biggrin:

Don't bag it. So much history and its specially unique... Have you ever been there?

Offline shaun

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« 2009-Apr-03, 07:16 PM Reply #19 »
So is there a bias or is EUROPA POINT  a very talented and WELL bred filly ?

don't know, i gave up punting there except for one day of the year.
read the opening post.... I AGREE!

Offline Da Judge

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« 2009-Apr-03, 07:24 PM Reply #20 »
what i don't understand is,when people say theres too many meetings for the track to cope,the gold coast has 50+ meetings a year,sun/coast would be close to that number,as would toowoomba,those 3 seem to hold up ok,well t/ba did

Offline shaun

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« 2009-Apr-03, 07:37 PM Reply #21 »
i don't know how the track is playing these days as i haven't watched a race there since the original post in this thread was made and don't intend to.had the same feelings before Racenet jumped on board and even exchanged emails with whoever is the head honcho there as to their lack of highlighting MV's failures.
had this discussion at the other forum and some said it makes it easier to back winners because you know there is bias there so bet to it.
great,that is not the reason i punt.
i punt not to make money per se',if i break square i'm happy.
i punt because i like horse racing as a sport.
i punt because for me there is no better feeling than to have your money on what YOU BELIEVE is the best horse in the race and it gets up and wins.
MV takes all the excitement and FUN out of racing for me.

Offline Bamboo Harvester

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« 2009-Apr-03, 07:38 PM Reply #22 »
what i don't understand is,when people say theres too many meetings for the track to cope,the gold coast has 50+ meetings a year,sun/coast would be close to that number,as would toowoomba,those 3 seem to hold up ok,well t/ba did

More artificial watering down Melbourne way?

Offline manikato1

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« 2009-Apr-03, 07:41 PM Reply #23 »
what i don't understand is,when people say theres too many meetings for the track to cope,the gold coast has 50+ meetings a year,sun/coast would be close to that number,as would toowoomba,those 3 seem to hold up ok,well t/ba did

Climactic conditions?  Hot, dry summers and cold wet winters are probably not ideal conditions for a turf course to race that often.


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