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Offline Shogun Lodge

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« 2018-Apr-01, 11:35 AM Reply #1650 »

Yes, but they were cracked in the air....not used as a striking implement on up to 6 horses etc.
True?

Offline Shogun Lodge

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« 2018-Apr-08, 11:37 AM Reply #1651 »
And so again yesterday we have the results of major race being questionable, maybe, due to whip rule transgression.
If you believe the whip makes em go quicker, then Oohood' s connections would be filthy.
Extra 4 whacks before the 100m on the winners bum.
Debate, anyone?
Get rid of them.
Or enforce the rule before declaring winner. Easy.

Offline fours

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« 2018-Apr-08, 11:45 AM Reply #1652 »
Shogun Lodge,

In Levendi's win protest I thougt we were going to see th whip rules used as a reason when they did not touch.

If a few million lost on such a protest it is interesting as to who sues who for 'negligence'.

We might even see a jockey sued for not breaching the rules and running a lip second given that every one is 'used to' the stewards not enforcing the rules.... so an ambit claim that the stewards get sued if the first claim loses is especially interesting!

Fours

Online PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Apr-15, 11:30 AM Reply #1653 »
Zacada - prior to the declaration of correct weight, the Stewards identified from the inquiry
room that rider D Holland had struck his mount on 12 occasions prior to the 100m. When
Stewards could not be satisfied that Zacada had gained an advantage that resulted in it
finishing in 2nd placing in the race, in accordance with AR168(2) they therefore declined to
exercise their powers under AR137A(9) and did not proceed with a formal objection. At a
subsequent inquiry D Holland pleaded guilty to a charge under AR137A(5)(a)(ii) in that he
used the whip on 12 occasions prior to the 100m (7 more than permitted). D Holland's licence
to ride in races was suspended for a period to commence on Thursday, 19 April 2018 and to
expire on Thursday, 26 April 2018, on which day he may ride. In addition D Holland was fined
$3,000.
Overraced in the middle stages. Near the 600m had to be checked to avoid the heels
of Aloft when that runner commenced to give ground.


http://www.racingaustralia.horse/PostStewardsReports/14042018RAND.pdf


Online PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Jul-25, 01:55 PM Reply #1654 »
From August 1st there will be 17 amendments to the existing rules for Australian racing.

In relation to whips:


Summary:
The rule prohibiting use of whips which have not been approved by Racing Australia and whips that have been approved by Racing Australia but have been modified is being extended to include possession of such whips by any person.

1. Amend AR.137A as follows:

"AR.137A. (1)(a) Only padded whips of a design and specifications approved by Racing Australia (“approved whip”) may be carried in races, official trials, jump-outs or trackwork.

(b) Every approved whip must be in a satisfactory condition and must not be modified in any way.

(c) The Stewards may confiscate any whip which:
(i) is not an approved whip; or
(ii) is an approved whip which, in their opinion, is not in a satisfactory condition or has been modified in any way.

(d) Any rider who has been found guilty of a breach of this rule may be penalised. Provided that the master and/or other person who is in charge of an apprentice jockey at the relevant time may also be penalised unless he satisfies the Stewards that he took all proper care to ensure the apprentice complied with the rule.

(2) Any person who has in his or her possession:

(a) a whip which is not an approved whip; or
(b) an approved whip which has been modified in any way,

commits an offence and may be penalised. “


and I will have to get rid of my stock whip...unless I own some cows.

AR.137AB – Possession of stockwhip

Summary:
Racing Australia is introducing a new rule which prohibits the possession of a stockwhip in relation to racing, training and pre-training.
Under AR.175(w), it is an offence for any person to use a stockwhip on a horse in any circumstances relating to racing, training, or pre-training. A possession offence will strengthen the current rule and further improve welfare practices.

The new rule includes an exemption from the possession offence where the person satisfies Stewards that such possession at the person’s premises is unrelated to training or pre-training a horse. For example, where horses are pre-trained on a property that also includes cattle.


http://www.racingaustralia.horse/FreeServices/Upcoming_Australian_Rules_Of_Racing_1_August_2018.aspx

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2018-Jul-25, 08:23 PM Reply #1655 »



............ when a problem becomes a hard nut to crack ....... get a bigger hammer

Offline nemisis

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« 2018-Sep-29, 07:47 AM Reply #1656 »
Interesting thoughts through the eyes of my 7yr old grand daughter while I was watching The Moir Stakes last night.

"Granddad can you change the TV over......I don't like watching that. Those people keep on smacking their horses"

I suppose I could tell her that the whips are padded and don't hurt but I don't even believe that.

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2019-Nov-05, 05:52 PM Reply #1657 »


10 YEARS ON  -- MICHAEL WALKER EXPLAINS WHIP USE TO THE STEWARDS


Prince Of Arran’s jockey Michael Walker admitted the whip rules "went out the window" in the drive to the line in Tuesday’s Melbourne Cup.

Walker threw everything at the Charlie Fellowes-trained Prince Of Arran in the last 200m of the Melbourne Cup but the British stayer fell a long head short of victory.

Walker ............. struck Prince Of Arran 12 times ............. before the 100m mark, seven times more than allowed.

"There's not much I can say," Walker said. "Everything went out the window when I knew I was a chance to win my first Melbourne Cup

Walker was suspended for seven meetings, .............., and fined $10,000.

The riding fee for the second placing on Prince Of Arran was $55,000  -- [5% of the $1.1 m for running second]


1O YEARS AFTER THE FIRST POST NEW WHIP RULES: THE ECONOMICS OF CRIME


Using Blake Shinn's ride in last year's Melbourne Cup on Viewed as an example, Bailey said a repeat of that level of whip use in the $5million race would certainly see the winning rider forfeit the riding fee, plus the maximum fine of $75,000 -- equating to half the 5 per cent commission of prizemoney.

In short when $3.5 million overwhelms $225,000 by a factor of 15 -- the prospective penalties are an invitation to go for broke.




Offline Shogun Lodge

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« 2020-Mar-13, 12:46 PM Reply #1658 »
From Racenet article:
Competing jurisdictions in Australian racing have not been able to have a consensus on much in recent years but Racing Victoria CEO Giles Thompson says one is needed on the outlawing of whips for anything other than safety purposes.

Thompson has previously expressed his opinion that a whip ban is inevitable and he re-iterated that stance on Wednesday.

He believes Australia will have a whip ban forced on it if the states don't come to an agreement to ban whip use for anything other than jockeys using the whips for safety purposes.

A national consensus would be needed to enforce rule change and the sticking point could be that NSW holds veto powers.

The issue has been discussed at a national level but does not have the full support of the state racing bodies.

"The debate is around encouragement and I’ve been on record several times saying that my view is that a ban for encouragement is inevitable," Thompson said on RSN.

"I don’t see a world where even the racing community, let alone the broader community, allows the continuance of whips for encouragement and I think those discussions and debates continue to happen around the country.

"It is no doubt a national issue, it’s a national rule.

"I don’t think it would be good for a state to go alone in that, even if it could.

"I think Australia can take the opportunity to get ahead of the curve on this, deal with the issue, grab that nettle and deal with it.

"If we don’t, it will be forced upon us, either by the fact that other jurisdictions are dealing with it or because the Governments, in one particular state or another, actually enforce it upon us."

The Daily Telegraph newspaper in Sydney reported earlier this week that champion jockeys Hugh Bowman and Kerrin McEvoy were both urging the ­racing industry to resist any push to ban the whip.

“I don’t think that (banning whips) is necessary,’’ Bowman told the Daily Telegraph.

“Whips don’t hurt the horses and that is what we (racing industry) need to publicise.’’

Thompson said he understood that it was an emotive issue but the broad image of racing was at stake.

"I saw some coverage in the Sydney press over the weekend about some top jockeys talking about how the padded whip doesn’t hurt the horse," Thompson said.

'I agree with that, it doesn’t hurt the horse, but that’s not the point.

"The point is that from an image perspective for racing, for racing to be broadly accepted by current and future generations, the use of the whip is inconsistent with that.

"It’s one of those things we’ve all probably known in our heart of hearts that it’s eventually coming.

"I think the last twenty years of reductions on whip use is a trend that is coming at us, but it’s a difficult issue. It’s an issue that will create great debate and emotion."


Offline Peter Mair

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« 2020-Jun-15, 08:48 PM Reply #1659 »


Rules or no-rules: Mr Dithering at RVL suggests a Blondie rule might be helpful

..................................if  the rule has no practical meaning......... it is not a rule.



Racing Victoria’s integrity boss Jamie Stier says he’s not in favour of disqualifying horses when jockeys breach Australia’s contentious whip rules.

“Personally, I’m not in favour of disqualification,” Stier said.

“There’s a lot of complexities around the whip rules and I know it’s easy for all of us to sit back and say, ‘this ought to be done’ or that ‘ought to be done’.


Offline Peter Mair

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« 2020-Jun-19, 07:59 AM Reply #1660 »

Pots calling kettles black

Racing industry stewards are making a mockery of their own rules -- compounding their offense by penalizing a jockey who returns serve, by also mocking the rules that are not enforced.

Victorian jockey Jamie Mott was charged with conduct prejudicial to the interests of racing and fined $1500 by stewards over a now deleted tweet in which he claimed he would now deliberately flout whip rules.

Jamie Mott should appeal and bring this nonsense to a head.

...........the end result will be 'no whip' racing.........the sooner the better.

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2020-Jun-19, 05:34 PM Reply #1661 »


The plot sickened when the protest was dismissed

............check the stewards head-on vision of the race

https://www.racing.com/form/2020-06-17/ladbrokes-park-hillside/race/7#/results

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2020-Jun-23, 06:23 PM Reply #1662 »


No-whip racing ------Lloyds on board

Lloyd Williams, Australia’s most successful Melbourne Cup owner, has entered the whip debate.

His solution is to do away with whips altogether.

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2020-Jul-23, 06:51 PM Reply #1663 »

15 overall -- a glimmer of commonsense buried in a bureaucratic pretense it is not

https://www.punters.com.au/news/victoria-introduces-stringent-whip-rule-guidelines_192145/


Offline Arsenal

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« 2020-Aug-05, 10:48 PM Reply #1664 »

New whip penalty guidelines announced for Queensland

New penalty guidelines are being introduced on August 8 to help curb excessive use of the whip in thoroughbred horse racing in Queensland.

From this Saturday, Queensland Racing Integrity Commission (QRIC) Stewards will implement a penalty template which will include substantial fines and suspensions for whip breaches.

Stewards will also consider fines up to the equivalent of a rider’s winning percentage for repeat offenders or offences in feature races.

Peter Chadwick, QRIC Chief Stipendiary Steward – Thoroughbreds, said the new guidelines will bring greater consistency to the penalties covering breaches in the use of the whip as well as acting as a deterrent.

“These new guidelines will provide clear penalties for breaches of the whip rules,” said Mr Chadwick.

“This will assist in providing greater consistency to the penalties applied and it’ll also ensure that riders are well aware of the potential penalties for any breaches of the whip rules.

“The new guidelines will also significantly reduce the use of the whip in the last 100 metres of the race as they stipulate that riders cannot use the whip more than 14 times and even less if they’ve already used up some or all of their five permitted use of the whip in the first part of the race.”

The new guidelines, which have been drawn up in consultation with the Queensland Jockeys Association, set out three schedules of penalties which are based on a sliding scale depending on the number of offences.

The three schedules cover:

    Prior to the 100 metres – Consecutive use of the whip within the five permitted times.
    Prior to the 100 metres – Additional use of the whip in excess of the five permitted times.
    The excessive use of the whip over the whole race when it is used 15 times or more.

A rider’s breach of the whip rules prior to 8 August 2020 will not be taken into account when assessing penalty under the new guidelines.

ENDS.

Media Contact Peter Scott 0472 842 346

Giddy Up :beer:


Offline Peter Mair

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« 2020-Aug-07, 08:44 PM Reply #1665 »


...........................nothing more or worse than convoluted bureaucratic tripe

Offline timw

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« 2020-Aug-16, 04:31 PM Reply #1666 »
Whip Use Protest -  Morphettville 15th August 2020 Race 2: TAB Handicap 2006m

Classy Joe 1st
Andrea Mantegna 2nd
Margin 0.1L or 2/100ths of a second

https://www.racing.com/news/2020-08-16/news-jolly-urges-whip-action

David Jolly said the time has come for the racing industry to deal with the whip issue, which was again in the spotlight on Saturday after the Adelaide trainer failed in a protest for over-use of the whip.

‘’If they were ever going to uphold a protest yesterday was probably the one and they still couldn’t do it, so where does it leave us with all this? Jolly said on Sunday morning.

‘’They (stewards) are so scared of upholding one, but it does just as much (damage) not to uphold them.’’

Jolly’s stayer Andrea Mantegna was narrowly beaten by Classy Joe in the second race at Morphettville on Saturday and it was later determined that Classy Joe’s rider Jeffrey Maund had struck his mount eight times more than is permitted before the 100 metre mark and on consecutive strides, which is also illegal.

He was fined $1500 for the excessive whip use and a further $200 for consecutive strikes as well as being suspended for four days. But while Maund was penalised so too were Andrea Mantegna’s owners and supporters, according to Jolly.

‘’The horse was beaten a short half head and if we’d hit our horse as many times, well we didn’t really have to find much,’’ he said.

Offline Arsenal

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« 2020-Sep-08, 06:18 PM Reply #1667 »
RV pushes for whip reform
Paul Tatnell

Paul Tatnell@PaulTatnell

7 September, 2020
, (

Racing Victoria is set to advocate the gradual banning of the whip, unless it’s a safety measure.

In what represents a significant change for the sport, RV has indicated a firm view the current rules guiding the whip must go, highlighting community expectations that “the current national whip rules are no longer appropriate and not in the best interests of Victorian and Australian racing, both now and in the long-term”.

The whip rule, currently set by Racing Australia, allows jockeys to whip their horse a maximum five times before the 100m, and essentially unlimited from there.

The ongoing use of the whip and the subsequent enforcement of the rule has caused industry and community debate.

But Monday’s announcement is the strongest yet from any state regarding the whip, with RV of the view “that padded whips do not constitute a risk to equine welfare, however it is clear that their ongoing use is becoming less compatible with community expectations each year.”

Racing Victoria today released a statement saying the body “is of the view that a new framework is required to transition the industry to an ultimate prohibition on use of the whip for purposes other than to protect the safety of horses and jockeys”.

And RV want to start the process to an eventual ban within months, proposing a vote at the Racing Australia Board meeting in November that jockeys are only allowed to whip their horse between five and eight times each race.

“RV will propose that, from 1 January 2021, riders are only permitted to use the whip on a maximum number of occasions throughout the entire race and never in a horse’s consecutive strides. RV is proposing that the maximum number be between five and eight occasions per race,” its statement said.

Such restrictions would bring racing in Australia with other jurisdictions around the world.

RV had taken its views on whip use to the Racing Australia Board in February, but a consensus within the board and other states could not be reached.

RV is now saying that if a consensus cannot be , it will “explore alternative approaches to achieve meaningful progress on whip reform.”

RV CEO Giles Thompson said its strong position on reforming the use of the whip is to ensure the sport attracts future fans.

“As industry leaders, we are charged with not only managing the sport today but ensuring that it remains vibrant and successful for generations to come. Making progress on whip reform is important if we want to retain our existing audiences and ensure that we’re an attractive option for the fans and employees of tomorrow,” he said.

“It is Racing Victoria’s view that progress on whip reform is needed now, and that the industry nationally, acting in its best long-term interests, should continue to work towards a prohibition on the use of the whip for purposes other than to protect the safety of horses and jockeys. It is critical that jockeys are permitted to carry a whip to ensure their safety and jockey safety is something that we will always advocate.”

“We want to reduce the number of times the whip can be used in Victorian racing, and indeed nationally, from 2021. This would be an important step in the right direction for our industry, one that recognises the progression of community attitudes in the decade since padded whips were first introduced.

“Britain, Ireland, France, Germany and key states in the USA have either implemented or announced significant reductions in permitted whip use and have seen great competitive racing continue. At

this time Australian racing has been left behind when it comes to reforms on whip use.

“The industry will always be best served by a national approach to whip reform and this is something

that we desire, however to this point that has not been achievable. We believe that prompt progress on whip reform is in the best interests of Australian racing and we are encouraging the Racing

Australia Board and other states to join us in making meaningful steps this year.

“In doing so, we will be consulting with our key stakeholder groups over the coming months on the implementation of specific rules that would see important whip reform achieved through a

reduction in the permitted number of occasions that it can be used in a race.”


Giddy Up :beer:




Offline Dave

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« 2020-Sep-08, 07:06 PM Reply #1668 »
While I agree that the whip is totally over rated as a means of getting a horse to give it's best and therefore should be restricted, I think Jockeys should be allowed to Carry a whip as a safety issue but the use should be very minimal,  in saying that What Racing Victoria are proposing is the height of Hypocracy, it is total and absolute BS to say it is "recognising community values"
"Community values" want the whip banned because they are concerned about animal cruelty and the whip is a very visible means of cruelty in their eyes, to most people unaware of how the racing industry works they think they are helping the animals
What is a hell of a lot more cruel is the use of spurs, the more you ban the whip the higher the use of spurs,
If Racing Victoria weren't the hypocites they are they would first ban spurs....what they are concerned with is their own pocket, they are paying lip service to the people who are concerned about animal cruelty but cannot see spurs being used under a cloak if invisibility, they're almost impossible to see for the untrained eye even if you are looking for them....But Racing Victoria know what they are doing
P.S. Groups like the RSPCA etc are also hypocrites who don't give a damn about Animal Welfare, what they are looking for is an issue that will get them exposure so they can ask for money/donations to "stop the cruelty" that is their real issue, raising money to spend on themselves!
Both sides are about self interest.....meanwhile the real animal lovers are unaware of the way they are being used by both sides......and the animals are still the real losers!

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2020-Sep-08, 07:26 PM Reply #1669 »

Dave is sensibly spurred into saying a few words

........ if spurs are allowed .......they should be declared,  as to the riders who use them and the horses on which they are used.

Is 'spurs' what they mean by 'hands and heels' riding?

No one mentions spurs ........... probably not the ones from bygone westerns with 'spiked wheels' on the business end .......... it would not be hard to get support to stop any related cruelty .....especially if spurs are an alternative to using the whip.

Offline Dave

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« 2020-Sep-08, 08:10 PM Reply #1670 »
No Pete the spurs do not have rowels (Spiked wheels) they are very small, about 2 inches, long, usually painted black and coming off the heel of the black boot making them hard to distinguish, now they are not sharp, as in like a knife or needle  but they are very fine, by comparison, given the choice would you rather be hit with a Padded whip......or dug in the ribs with a 2 inch fine piece of steel? even a blunt piece of steel would cause considerable pain and a horse would hardly even feel the padded whips they use these days, also take into account that a Jockeys legs are a lot more powerful than their spindly little arms
long before the whip was an issue there would be maybe 2 or 3 horses at a meeting where the jockey was wearing spurs, it was an edge, you knew those connections meant business.....now I reckon 80/90% of horses carry jockeys wearing spurs, I am yet to see Bowman/Boss/Williams or McDonald wear spurs.....not saying they never do, just that I have never seen them, not that I can remember anyway......Now it's been awhile since I was a regular race goer  but I do notice in the parade when a Jockey is wearing spurs on a horse that didn't carry them last start....at least when the camera focusses long enough to pick them up
Yes they should be in the gear changes.....but that will never happen cos they do not want to bring them to the attention of the general public....cos like I said.....Hypocracy!


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