Protest!!!!! - Racing Talk - Racehorse TALK harm-plan

Racehorse TALK



Protest!!!!! - Racing Talk - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: Protest!!!!!  (Read 36887 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ACER

  • Group 2
  • User 1183
  • Posts: 1527
« 2016-Mar-12, 03:41 PM Reply #50 »
Last 400m!!
Good luck PP.

Offline PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 21836
« 2016-Mar-12, 03:44 PM Reply #51 »
Last 400m!!
Good luck PP.

The way I'm going today in Melbourne today mate it will be dismissed   :lol:

Had a big whack at Sooboog at $34 last night - the tears are still running down my cheeks.  :sad:

Offline PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 21836
« 2016-Mar-12, 03:46 PM Reply #52 »
Bowman never stopped riding on the head on.

Offline arakaan

  • Group 1
  • User 192
  • Posts: 10699
« 2016-Mar-12, 03:48 PM Reply #53 »
100% should be dismissed

this may have something to do with me having the F4 in NSW.  :sweat:

Offline ACER

  • Group 2
  • User 1183
  • Posts: 1527
« 2016-Mar-12, 04:04 PM Reply #54 »
Must have ran out 8 horses wide that winner.

Upheld this one  :)


Bingo! Well done.
I knew Preferment wouldn't be first past the post. 😀

Offline arakaan

  • Group 1
  • User 192
  • Posts: 10699
« 2016-Mar-12, 04:05 PM Reply #55 »
Surely when you own winx as well you can let the battlers take a bit of cash.  

Greedy pricks those owners.   :biggrin:  

Offline Gintara

  • Group 1
  • User 16
  • Posts: 12692
« 2016-Mar-12, 04:23 PM Reply #56 »
About the first one in living memory that I can remember going my way for once  :/

Offline Draven39

  • Listed
  • User 2137
  • Posts: 475
« 2016-Mar-12, 05:04 PM Reply #57 »
Surely when you own winx as well you can let the battlers take a bit of cash.  

Greedy pricks those owners.      :biggrin:     

    :lol:    Yet another protest in a major race. I felt bad for the connections of Awesome Rock when the protest was upheld and two women from the Preferment camp starting celebrating and hugging Hugh and Chris right in front of them. Debbie Keptis being one of them,[edited by mod tontonan, bit rude], if only we were lucky enough to be born into a racing empire. I like her as much as I liked Black Caviar's group of owners..  :bleh:

« Last Edit: 2016-Mar-12, 05:31 PM by tontonan »

Steve M

  • Guest
« 2016-Mar-12, 05:45 PM Reply #58 »
I can see why result could be upheld but I think there needs to be more than just drift in straight to justify changing the result.

Personally I think there needs to be distinct element of interference.

I would argue in these circumstances there was still an element of doubt. And in that cause you should take conservative view with result.

Offline The Carnegie Express

  • VIP Club
  • Group 2
  • User 261
  • Posts: 3577
« 2016-Mar-12, 06:41 PM Reply #59 »
I'm over protests. I had a stack on Preferment so finished well ahead but the protest result was a joke.

Offline ACER

  • Group 2
  • User 1183
  • Posts: 1527
« 2016-Mar-12, 06:48 PM Reply #60 »
Protests in VIC metro are hard to pick these days. I am going at about 30% this year.
Am I imagining it or were they easy to predict a couple of years ago? Consistency is all we ask for.

Offline turfdeli

  • Group3
  • User 587
  • Posts: 824
« 2016-Mar-12, 06:49 PM Reply #61 »
I can see why result could be upheld but I think there needs to be more than just drift in straight to justify changing the result.

Personally I think there needs to be distinct element of interference.

I would argue in these circumstances there was still an element of doubt. And in that cause you should take conservative view with result.

Was on AWESOME ROCK today for a fair bit, and on PALENTINO both of his last two "wins".

It is getting totally ridiculous and getting pretty fed up.

In all three protests the 2nd horse has had every chance to win. Today's was the barest of interference that barely inconveniced Preferment in the slightest. He never stopped riding. These sort of protests never used to be upheld.

The rules have totally changed and we are going to see more and more protests - and they will have to uphold them now because they have set a precedent.

Offline j.r.b.

  • Group 2
  • User 230
  • Posts: 2055
« 2016-Mar-12, 07:15 PM Reply #62 »
Can't blame jockeys or anyone else for chancing their arm in a protest in Melbourne while the current bench remains in place.

Offline dubbledee

  • VIP Club
  • Group 1
  • User 285
  • Posts: 34011
« 2016-Mar-12, 07:58 PM Reply #63 »
I think I would have gone exact opposite on all three of the recent Flemington protests.

While that matters absolutely nothing to anyone - what does matter is that for years, incidents identical to that in the Australian Cup today would not have warranted a protest, let alone an UPHOLD.

A punter certainly would not want their life resting on a protest in Melbourne at the moment.  :no:


Offline Arsenal

  • VIP Club
  • Group 1
  • User 194
  • Posts: 16741
« 2016-Mar-12, 08:01 PM Reply #64 »
7 - AUSTRALIAN CUP (Group 1) - 2000 metres:

Prior to correct weight Hugh Bowman, rider of Preferment (NZ), second past the post, lodged an objection against Awesome Rock (Stephen Baster) being declared the winner alleging interference from the 400m until the winning post. On the evidence it was established that between the 300m and the 200m Awesome Rock shifted out when not clear of Preferment (NZ) taking that horse several horses out off its course, and bearing in mind the short half head margin between the two at the finish, had it not been for this interference Preferment (NZ) would have finished in front of Awesome Rock and therefore the objection was upheld and the placings amended as follows: first placegetter - Preferment (NZ), second placegetter - Awesome Rock, third placegetter - Rising Romance (NZ) and fourth placegetter - Fenway and correct weight was declared.

Preferment (NZ) - when questioned regarding the tactics today, rider Hugh Bowman stated he was given no specific instructions however he was mindful that in his view he was hopeful to take up a forward position and given the slow tempo in the early stages he was able to achieve that.

Bow Creek (IRE) - stood flat footed and lost ground. Rider Damien Oliver stated his mount was not suited by the slow tempo and a post race veterinary examination failed to reveal any abnormalities.

Awesome Rock - rider Stephen Baster was severely reprimanded for shifting out between the 300m and the 200m taking Preferment (NZ) out off its course.

Suavito (NZ) - trainer Mr Nigel Blackiston believes the mare, at weight for age, failed to see out the trip and he will now revert back to mile races.



According to Stephen Baster the horses made no contact although I have only seen the side on film it did appear that Preferment was baulked slightly still another controversial decision by Bailey & Co....hope there's a head on shown tomorrow on the Racing Show...he's a wonderful little trier Awesome Rock bless his heart.   :noteworthy:  

In cases like this it's normal for the words "in the opinion of stewards "to preface their decision this time they state it as fact. :thumbsd:


Giddy Up :beer:
« Last Edit: 2016-Mar-12, 08:05 PM by Arsenal »

Offline Arsenal

  • VIP Club
  • Group 1
  • User 194
  • Posts: 16741
« 2016-Mar-12, 08:19 PM Reply #65 »
Herald Sun

 
THE DEBATE: Protest decisions at the Sunshine Coast and Flemington invoked lengthy discussion for entirely different reasons on Saturday. Opinion on the Australian Cup upheld protest seemed to be divided. Many were comfortable that the interference was enough to reverse the result, others felt Preferment had the entire straight to run the winner down and couldn’t. Having been in Awesome Rock’s corner, I am firmly of that belief! Jokes aside, winning on the track counts for little in Melbourne, as evidenced by Palentino’s relegation three weeks ago. At the Sunshine Coast, stewards made a little bit of history in upholding a protest on the grounds of a whip rule breach. Again, opinions are divided on the merits of invoking such a decision. Premier jockey Jim Byrne has been lobbying for some time for stewards to take a harder stance on whip breaches. Connections of demoted Rosella obviously felt very differently. In this case, the dead-heat margin gave the stewards the necessary fire power to uphold the objection.

That's a first  :whistle:

Steve M

  • Guest
« 2016-Mar-12, 09:03 PM Reply #66 »
RV board would surely feel uncomfortable with what's gone on recently. Quite possibly some of stewards panel.

They have shifted the goal posts in Victoria and would seem genuinely out of step with rest of country.

Strange days.


Offline turfdeli

  • Group3
  • User 587
  • Posts: 824
« 2016-Mar-12, 09:15 PM Reply #67 »
RV board would surely feel uncomfortable with what's gone on recently. Quite possibly some of stewards panel.

They have shifted the goal posts in Victoria and would seem genuinely out of step with rest of country.

Strange days.



If they want to change the rules, then make it official, make an announcement and have the rules in writing. There just seems to have been such a total reversal on what is required for a protest to be upheld and it doesn't appear to have been a conscious, planned change. Everyone is frustrated.

Steve M

  • Guest
« 2016-Mar-12, 09:19 PM Reply #68 »
Yep and therein lies the issue.

If they wished to change it it should have been an official change in policy.

Offline PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 21836
« 2016-Mar-12, 11:53 PM Reply #69 »
FWIW I thought the stewards explained themselves very well, and the check that Preferment got between the 300 and the 200 was there for all to see.

Notwithstanding the fact that if the jockey on Awesome Rock stopped riding to straighten his mount, which he was obliged to do, then it doesn't win.

You can't just let your mount run off like that and take other horses with you.

Would have been more controversial if they dismissed the protest IMO. Correct decision has been arrived at.

I too feel sorry for the connections of the runner up. But that should never be a consideration when analyzing the interference.

Offline fours

  • Group 1
  • User 704
  • Posts: 6722
« 2016-Mar-13, 12:12 AM Reply #70 »
Whipping,

Did Awesome Rocks jockey breach the whip rule?

And if not could the use of the whip to help steer the horse back on course ( ie away from the whip ) have been a factor when not allowed?

Fours

Offline Arsenal

  • VIP Club
  • Group 1
  • User 194
  • Posts: 16741
« 2016-Mar-13, 11:11 AM Reply #71 »
The Rules themselves don't impose any prescribed conditions which the stewards are obliged to follow......"AR8(f) To determine all questions arising or objections made in reference to racing at the meeting."

That's the extent of the Rule...they have a blank canvas......common sense tells us that they are obliged to exercise their discretion on the evidence before them.... to act in good conscience ... they need to be reasonably satisfied that any the interference caused or suffered was sufficient in their opinion to have altered the result of the race.....it is subjective...and open to argument as commentators have alluded to in this and other cases. :shrug:

There's no avenue of appeal against their decision.

Giddy Up :beer:


Offline turfdeli

  • Group3
  • User 587
  • Posts: 824
« 2016-Mar-13, 11:27 AM Reply #72 »
Have to feel for Baster, as he was coming into the winner's stalls the protest siren was already sounding.

He was actually placed at a considerable disadvantage, because of the post race interviews, etc he had next to no time to prepare, whereas the protesting jockey had plenty of time and had a head start.

Steve M

  • Guest
« 2016-Mar-13, 12:08 PM Reply #73 »
The Rules themselves don't impose any prescribed conditions which the stewards are obliged to follow......"AR8(f) To determine all questions arising or objections made in reference to racing at the meeting."

That's the extent of the Rule...they have a blank canvas......common sense tells us that they are obliged to exercise their discretion on the evidence before them.... to act in good conscience ... they need to be reasonably satisfied that any the interference caused or suffered was sufficient in their opinion to have altered the result of the race.....it is subjective...and open to argument as commentators have alluded to in this and other cases. :shrug:

There's no avenue of appeal against their decision.

Giddy Up :beer:


It's no blank canvas though. Within that rule - there is the application of logic which creates understanding of how stewards determine protests results. They provide reasons and that helps us understand.

t will always be subjective and always open to debate - yes.

But the very reason there is so much consternation is that there has been shift in logic being applied to protests - and principally only in Victoria. That is an issue.

Offline PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 21836
« 2016-Mar-13, 01:17 PM Reply #74 »
Have to feel for Baster, as he was coming into the winner's stalls the protest siren was already sounding.

He was actually placed at a considerable disadvantage, because of the post race interviews, etc he had next to no time to prepare, whereas the protesting jockey had plenty of time and had a head start.

I felt aweful for the connections of Awesome Rock. You could see the disappointment in their faces after the protest being upheld.

Hope he can pick up a good race for them. You never know. On that form he must be some sort of chance in the QE2. 50-1 with Ladbrokes. Seems a bit of overs to me.

Would be just the sort of fairy tale story you sometimes get.


BACK TO ALL TOPICS
Sitemap