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Offline Brian Mc

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« 2013-Nov-11, 03:14 PM Reply #225 »
I haven't got around to reading this thread for quite some time and was pleased to see it so alive.

For some years I did extensive research into the racehorses of the 1940's.  I was prompted to recheck my records after reading all the good input here.  I find that some of my files are corrupted and, more sadly, the detailed pen-portraits of quite a few horses "vanished" - probably when moved data from a dying computer to a new one.

Let's leave that aside while I see if I can add to some of the excellent info here.

First Lucrative.  To contribute to the question of what happened to that champion, here are my final paragraphs on him.

'There was a report in the Age of Friday 14th 1941 that Lucrative had been sold by R W McLean to Alex Higgins to race in India.  The price was not disclosed but was believed to be high.  Lucrative had cost but 450g as a yearling and had amassed more than £20,000 in stake earnings.  Because of the sale Lucrative was not to run in the Williamstown Cup.

On Wednesday 19, the Age reported that because of shipping difficulties Lucrative was still in work.  He was now at F Godby's stables.  The horse might well start in the Eclipse.

Nov 22
The 12f Eclipse H'cp was won by Lucrative, 9/4 favourite, by 2.5ln from High Road, 7/1, with El Golea, 8/1, 0.5ln away.  The run-on was Saint Warden, Carpentier, Tranquil Star, Son of Aurous, Keelie, Throttle, Gay Revelry and Primavera.  This was to be Lucrative's last race in Australia.  His career on the Australian Turf ended in a blaze of glory when he completely outclassed a field comprised mainly of proved stayers.  He started at 6/4 with 7/1 bar one on offer.  In his career he had put together £21743 in little more than two seasons.  Here he carried 9.3 and after doing all the hard work by leading the field up to the runaway Keelie, who at one stage held a lead of 12ln, he thoroughly outstayed High Road, to whom he conceded 22 lb.  Purtell in his first ride on the horse was not perturbed when High Road took the lead at the top of the straight but waited for an opening on the rails, which, in time, presented itself and then Lucrative had the brilliance to take advantage of it.  Tranquil Star had every chance but could not come on at the business end of the race.

Mon Dec 8
Alex Higgins the Australian trainer based, with much success in India, had bought Lucrative to race there.  There would be much trouble shipping him there from Australia under the war conditions.  Lucrative had been sold before his win at Flemington in the Eclipse Stakes in late November.

Juy 4 1945
There was an article that day in the SMH about the 1940 VRC Derby winner. Lucrative.  This horse had been shipped to India and raced there with no success.  It was now reported by a passenger on the ship that carried Lucrative to India that the horse had had a nightmare trip and had been very knocked about.   He had been in a deck stall for 8 weeks.  The stall was so small he couldn't move about.  His attendant had been the ship's carpenter.  Lucrative's hock's filled badly after a couple of weeks.  No wonder he failed to find form in India."

Note the dates involved here.  Lucrative was sold before the outbreak of the Pacific War (Dec 8 194) but was not shipped until after the start of the war. Lucrative was a horse that particularly interested me as he was a prominent runner in the 1941 M Cup, a race in which as a seven-year-old boy I drew the winner Skipton in a Shearing Shed sweep, a lucky chance that launched my lifetime interest in horseracing.

Offline tontonan

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« 2013-Nov-11, 09:41 PM Reply #226 »
(Tim : I told you there was three of us )

Hello Brian, great to see you on board. 

My sympathies regarding the lost data.  It has happened to me before as well and now I back things up onto the web using a blog site just in case it happens again.

I have been thinking of your research as this thread has moved into the era of the war.

It will probably come as a surprise to many that there is an Indian 'turf' at all  (god knows there isn't any on their cricket pitches).  But there is, older than our own, and with some deep historical connections with Australia.

The Australian horse breeding industry probably owes its existence to India.  It was from India that we drew a lot of our early horses including many of the foundation sires of the early colonial racers and the Australian utility horses, the 'Walers' and the stock horses.

What kept our boat afloat as horse breeders in the 19th century was the export trade to India, supplying military remounts to the British army.   We didn't end up with 500,000 horses in this country by the 1860's just because we were fond of the punt.  Yes, the sheep had a lot to do with it too, but we exported hundreds of thousands of horses surplus to our needs, and that market was a great impetus for us to develop as horse breeders.

Now before anyone says what has this got to do with race horses, the Waler is a hybrid breed of 'orientals' (i.e. Arabians) and Thoroughbreds and depending on their utility, anything from Timor ponies to Clydesdales.  What folks have to realise is that racing was just one use for a horse in the 19th century, amongst many, and thoroughbreds were were not exclusively racing horses.

And it was a two way street. 

Tim has already posted the race record of Marvel for example, and I have mentioned my old mate Jorrocks.  They were of the same family and bear the ancestry of Hector and Model.  Hector was a Persian imported from Calcutta, and Model was an Arabian racing horse distinguished on the Indian turf.  They were put to our colonial mares (many of which were 'Capers' from South Africa) too improve our stock, and Thoroughbred horses were put to them to improve them some more. 

Sure, in time, we began to insist on thorough breeding for the race track, although the old lines still crop up from time to time.  Norsqui is  Non Stud Book.    He went close to winning the Sydney Cup this year and his maternal line depends on Glaucus Arabian (IND).  While they aren't seen so much these days  I am certainly old enough to remember the (Unidentifed x Unidentified)'s and I am sure there are still a few of those in the pedigrees of horses up country in Queensland or out West. 

It might also surprise folks top know that Australian bred horses have won 35 editions of India's greatest race, the Viceroy Cup, but significantly only one since 1908 and that was in 1924.  The connection is well and truly historical now.

Lucrative is a surprising export and a surprisingly late one, and he may well be the last of them.

Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2013-Nov-12, 08:19 AM Reply #227 »
  I am certainly old enough to remember the (Unidentifed x Unidentified)'s

I always thought that the "unidentified" was used due to there being some doubts about the parentage in either the sire or dam line.

But apparently it also was used when the owners couldn't afford to keep up the studbook registration.

I've told this one before - a number of times - but maybe it has a new audience on this thread-

Des Hoysted  back in the mid 70’s called the wrong horse during a race and only realised his error after the horse had won. Giving the prices and breeding info he gave the winner’s breeding as

“By an unidentified sire from an unidentified mare”
And he added "That’s exactly how I feel.”

Offline tontonan

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« 2013-Nov-12, 06:14 PM Reply #228 »


1861 brown  horse
(Sir Hercules - Cassandra)
Bred by W.Tindall
Owned by W.McEvilly & Rutledge,
then  by Edward King Cox
Trained by W.O'Malley

At 2 Years        
Apr 1864 WON Randwick  AJC Champagne Stakes   5f Tamwoth
At 3 Years        
Sep 1864 WON Randwick AJC Maiden Plate 8f Sir Solomon
Sep 1864 WON Randwick AJC Spring Bruie 10f Duke of Athol
Sep 1864 WON Randwick AJC Derby 12f Colleen Bawn
Sep1865 Upl Randwick AJC Grand Handicap (7.5) 16f Union Jack (7.3)
Apr 1865 WON Randwick AJC St Leger 14f Tamworth
Apr 1865 WON Randwick AJC 3YO Biennial   Dundee
At 4 Years        
Apr 1866 WON Randwick AJC Sydney Cup (8.4) 16f Sultana
Apr 1866 WON Randwick AJC City Handicap (9.6) 12f Safeguard
Apr 1866 2nd Randwick AJC Forced Handicap (9.6) 12f Warwick
At 5 Years        
Sep 1866 2nd Randwick AJC Great Metropolitan (9.8) 16f Byalong (5.6)
Apr 1867 5th Randwick AJC Sydney Cup (9.9) 16f Fishhook (6.10)
Apr 1867 WON Randwick AJC All Aged Stakes 8f Rose of Australia
Apr 1867 2nd Randwick AJC Queens Plate 24f Fishhook 
At 6 Years        
Sep 1867 WON Randwick AJC Craven Plate 10f Tim Whiffler
Sep 1867 4th Randwick AJC Great Metropolitan (9.10) 16f Tim Whiffler (8.8)
Sept 1867 WON Randwick AJC Randwick Plate 24f North Australian

- He never raced anywhere other than Randwick and was serving mares as a spring 3YO
- His first progeny were beginning their careers before he had finished his.
-The first of his progeny was Yatterina, the 15th dam of Dear Demi

- Champion colonial sire of champion colonial sires Grand Flaneur and Chester

_ Sire also of top class horses such as Dagworth (see record on page 8) Calma (Caulfield Cup) Commodore (AJC St Leger) Fitz-Yattendon (AJC All AGed S) Fitz Hercules (NZ Derby) Hesperian (AJC Metropolitan) Gudarz (Viceroy Cup IND) Javelin (AJC Derby) Lord Burghley, Reprieve, Sweetmeat (Epsom Hcp, WFA) and 31 stakes winners in all.

Offline tontonan

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« 2013-Nov-12, 06:29 PM Reply #229 »


1856 bay horse
William Tell GB - Maid of the Oaks
Bred by TJ Roberts & RH Hassall
Exeter Farm, Jembaicumbene NSW
Leased by Etienne deMestre
Trained by Etienne deMestre

Date   Course Race Dis Weight Sts
   At Three Years
29May1860 Unp Randwick Tatt's Free Handicap 12f 7.5(47 kg) 14
31May1860 Unp Randwick AJC Randwick Plate 12f 7.11 7
  At Four Years
6 Sept 1860 WON Randwick AJC Metropolitan Maiden Plate 14f u/k 6
8 Sep 1860 WON Randwick AJC Randwick Plate 12f 9 .5 (59.5kg) 2
25 Sep 1860 WON Windsor Hawkesbury Maiden Plate 14f u/k 5
27 Sep 1860 WON Windsor Stewards Purse 14f 9.4 (59kg) 2
2 May 1861 WON Randwick AJC Australian Plate 18f u/k  
4 May 1861 WON Randwick AJC Randwick Plate 12f 8 .12 6
4 Jun 1861 WON Maitland Maitland Town Plate # 18f u/k 2
  At Five Years
7 Nov1861 WON Flemington VRC Melbourne Cup 16f 9.7 (60.5 kg) 17
8 Nov1861 WON Flemington VRC Melbourne Town Plate 16f 9.13 (63.0 kg) 5
26 Apr1862 3rd Randwick AJC Grand Handicap 20f 10.0 (63.5 kg) 13
3 May 1862 WON Randwick AJC Queen’s Plate 24f 10.0 (63.5 kg) 6
   At Six Years
1 Oct1862 3rd Geelong Australian Champion Swpsks 24f 10.1 (64.0 kg) 9
13Nov1862 WON Flemington VRC Melbourne Cup 16f 10.2(64.55kg) 20
15Nov1862 WON Flemington VRC All-Aged Stakes 8f 10 .4 (65.5 kg)  
   At Seven Years          
1 Oct 1863 3rd Ballarat Australian Champion Swpsks 24f u/k 5
3 Nov1863 Scr Flemington Melbourne Cup 16f 11.4(72.0 kg)  

Record reproduced from Wikipedia

Ridden by John Cutts in all starts except # Maitland Town Plate when ridden by Etienne DeMestre

Winner of the first two Melbourne Cups and the only horse to win successive Cups until Rain Lover 1968-9

He won the first cup by 6 lengths and the second by 8 lengths - a record winning margin only equalled by Rain Lover in 1968.

He carried 10st 2lb (64.5kg) in his second win which stood as the weight carrying record until Carbine in 1890.

In 1863 he was allocated 11.4 (71.5kg) and with every intention of running his nomination was refused by the VJC as it was delayed in the post due to a Victorian public holiday.

Died in 1872 from complications after eating green barley


Offline tontonan

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« 2013-Nov-12, 07:04 PM Reply #230 »


1869 bay horse
(Lucifer GB - Levity GB)
Bred by  Hon.John Baker, Sth Aust.
Owned by Joe Thompson
Trained by James Wilson, St.Albans,Vic

James Wilson Snr purchased the colt for just 50 guineas from breeder Hon John Baker

TWO YEARS:   1 Starts  0 wins  0 second 0 thirds

THREE YEARS:   0 Starts  0 wins  0 second 0 thirds

Did not race


Don Juan was entered for the Melbourne Cup as a maiden by W. Johnstone [1]and given a handicap of 6st 12lb

FOUR YEARS:  1873-74 6 Starts 6 wins 0 seconds 0 thirds
2Aug WON   Caulfield VATC Handicap Flat 8f 2/1* 7.0 ½L W.F.  8.1 --20sov

Mr.J.O.Inglis [2] secures Don Juan for £500 on a 'conditional sale' [3]

2Nov WON   Flemington VRC Essendon Sks 16f 5/1 9.0 ½L Fitz Yattendon 9.6 3.57.0
7Nov WON 24 Flemington VRC Melbourne Cup 16f 3/1* 6.12 3/6L Dagworth 9.4 3.36.0*[4]
8Nov WON 2 Flemington VRC Royal Park Sks 16f 6/4? 9.0 neck Dagworth 9.9 3.41.0
9Nov WON 4 Flemington VRC Flemington Plate 24f any 9.5 ½L Ace of Trumps 10.1 5.50.0

It is reported Joe Thompson bought Don Juan from JO Inglis for £2,000 [5]
Protest against the horse's age and identity are dismissed following a lengthy inquiry [6]

1Jan WON   Flemington VRC Canterbury Plate 20f any 9.0 1L The Sylvia colt [7] 4.50.0

In February 1874 after a strong gallop Don Juan was found dead in his box.  The autopsy revealed an inch long rent in his over sized heart.


[1]  Johnstone was a grazier from Camperdown and never owned the horse in fact.  He was paid, or rather laid £200 to nothing against Don Juan winning the Melbourne Cup by bookmaker Joe Thompson, for the use of his name.  The horse was own by Thompson

[2] Mr. J.O.Inglis was better known as the owner and sometime rider of Malua

[3] To further thrown punters and bookmakers off the scent Thompson and Wilson put the horse n Y.C.Yuille's For Sale list at the prohibitive price of £500.  Inglis, who was as much a 'sportsman' as they were came up with the £500 causing Thompson to have kittens.  The sale was made 'conditional' on Inglis not taking possession until after the VRC carnival was over.

[4] Australasian record time

[5] As soon as Inglis claimed Don Juan Thompson bought the horse back for £2,000.  First prize in the elbourne Cup was £1360 but that was nothing compared with what Thompson had won betting the unraced mystery horse down to 3/1* in the Cup

[6] A protest was lodged by Samuel Bowler against the horse's age. Further objections are heard that the horse was  not Don Juan at all by his stablemate Mentor (also owned by Thompson).  The horse's bona fides check out, the confusion stemming from his older brother Don Giovanni having raced in the St Leger in Adelaide in 1872.  Trainer of Dagworth Etienne Demestre refused to join the protest action on the grounds that there weren't any grounds.

[7] The Sylvia colt was as later named Goldsbrough




NOTE : RECORD MODIFIED - 7 Starts 6 Wins 0 Seconds 0 thirds 1 Unplaced

Don Juan made his debut as a 2YO in a mile and a half selling race not detailed above -

23 May 1872  Morphettville  Unpl of 12  Selling Race (not to be sold)  12F  6.12  4/1*   Norma 8.7   1st
« Last Edit: 2014-Jan-10, 09:05 AM by tontonan »

Offline timw

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« 2013-Nov-12, 08:15 PM Reply #231 »
As Aurie's Star was out of a non stud book mare his racing record only appears at the tail end of Pring's 1977 book and with 28 wins he was clearly no slouch.  Apart from flying down Flemington's straight six in the VATC Whittier Hcp in 1.08.25 (metric 1.07.8) (must have been a tail wind) Pring records he won two Oakleigh Plates (one in ANZR record time), a Newmarket and a Goodwood in race record time.  Perhaps if there were more wfa sprint races like today his record would have been far better.

I seem to recall that the owner of Lucrative purchased The Nook stud at Nagambie and may have been tempted to sell Lucrative to pay for the purchase. The following newspaper articles on Trove concerning his sale and later career in India might be of interest:

The Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848-1954) Thursday 20 November 1941 p 10 Article
Western Mail (Perth, WA : 1885-1954) Thursday 8 January 1942 p 25 Article
Western Mail (Perth, WA : 1885-1954) Thursday 22 January 1942 p 30 Article
Western Mail (Perth, WA : 1885-1954) Thursday 19 February 1942 p33
The Sydney Morning Herald (NSW : 1842-1954) Monday 25 June 1945 p 6 Article
The Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848-1954) Monday 25 June 1945 p 11 Article Illustrated
The Sydney Morning Herald (NSW : 1842-1954) Thursday 5 July 1945 p 7 Article
The Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848-1954) Wednesday 6 February 1946 p 6 Article

Cover's Brian Mc's stuff and a bit more.
« Last Edit: 2013-Nov-13, 07:53 PM by timw »

Offline tontonan

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« 2013-Nov-12, 09:03 PM Reply #232 »
I am half way through Auries Star's career.  I have 41 starts (15 wins 4 seconds 2 thirds) so far and as always it has been a fascinating search to follow the horses career from his first bungled start at Morphettville on New Years Day in 1836 through all its ups and downs.  I am well into 1939 now.

I have learned a lot along the way.  George Badman his owner also owns French Gem who is an Oaks winner and the fabulous broodmare who produced Royal Gem and Beau Gem.  He is quite a punter and gets involved in a £5,000 challenge to match race Ajax over 4 furlongs.  It never eventuates but both the SAJC and the BATC got involved with it and I get the distinct impression that Ajax's connections are not keen, despite the fact that Ajax is in the middle of 18 race winning streak and through the duration of the challenge debate Auries Star is almost winless.  Badman never backed off.

You are dead right about the lack of WFA races.  Badman knows that once the horse won the Oakleigh Plate (his 8th win from 11 starts in Australasian record time) and the Newmarket that little horse is going to get handicapped severly and even resorts to nominating him for the Caulfield Cup but Auries Star is a pure sprinter although he wins at a mile he just falls in.  The plan was scrapped after he failed in the Underwood Stakes.

You can 'see' the weight stop him in his form and I wonder if horses like Auries Star had to play the handicap game off having extended periods without winning so that they could strike at a winnable weight.

I didn't know that Doomben had a straight course and ran its own Newmarket that was worth considerable more than the VRC version.  Auries is a failure in Queensland.  He breaks records on the training track but is well beaten at every start in two trips to Brisbane (so far).

After he wins his second Oakleigh Plate (with 62.5kg) he is beaten a neck under 63kg in the Newmarket by El Golea (56kg) - and that horse was pretty good.

I have no idea why Auries Star is NSB.  I dont have access to the studbook but the pedigree I have looks clean to me.  It must be a bureaucratic thing.  I notice that several of Stardrift's progeny are NSB but they all seem to have clean pedigrees.  Sounds like someone didn't like paying registration fees.

One other thing I came across while researching his career.  A sign of the times....

Friday 10 March 1939
The Munich correspondent of the 'Daily Telegraph' states: 'The Nazis are attempting to popularise Germany as a turf centre, and are paying foreign winners In foreign currencies. The biggest price Is Hitler's brown riband at Munich, for which a foreigner will receive In his own currency, the equivalent of 100,000 marks. Nazis are also granting jockeys and other participants travelling and living allowances. German racing organisations are paying the transport and maintenance of four horses of each owner. Special honor prizes are being granted, besides cash,'

Offline manikato1

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« 2013-Nov-12, 09:39 PM Reply #233 »
I didn't know that Doomben had a straight course and ran its own Newmarket that was worth considerable more than the VRC version.  Auries is a failure in Queensland.  He breaks records on the training track but is well beaten at every start in two trips to Brisbane (so far).


I could be wrong, but I believe the Doomben Newmarket is the original name of the Doomben 10,000 - had a few other names along that way though.

On non stud book horses, wasn't there a horse called Peep On The Sly, I think he beat Saintly in a Sandown Guineas, who was barred the Victoria Derby as he was non stud book?

Offline tontonan

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« 2013-Nov-12, 09:55 PM Reply #234 »
I think your right Manikato.  The Millers Guide gives the results of the Newmarket races under the Doomben 10,000 title and notes that the race was on the straight course.

This news report from 1936

All roads led to the Doomben garden racecourse yesterday afternoon for the opening day of the Brisbane Amateur Turf Club's cup carnival meeting. The'magnet 'that drew visitors from all parts of the' State and from New South Wales and Victoria, was the Doomben Newmarket Handicap, run over a straight course of six furlongs, and one of the most spectacular races in the Queensland racing calendar.

I'll post this to the Forum questions thread as well.

Was 'Doomben Gardens' the same course we know today ?

If so when did they stop straight racing at Doomben ?

Offline tontonan

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« 2013-Nov-12, 11:50 PM Reply #235 »
Re/ Peep on the Sly

Correct .  Bob Maxwell bought the clean bred mare Kisiming in foal when he was 23 and knew nothing about the stud book and didn't return her.  Consequently all her descendants were NSB until Peep On The Sly.  He wasn't allowed in the Derby because he was NSB but after he won the Sandown Guineas the situation was rectified.  He and the Kisiming family have since been verified and readmitted.

It appears that Aurie's Star's dam Aurie Anton, herself a top flight and well related sprinter was also not returned to the studbook.  Her pedigree is clean.  Press reports from the time suggest that this was quite an issue in South Australia at the time and could explain why the breeding industry there was retarded.

Other famous NSB stakes winners include Aquanita, Australasia and Fountaincourt.

Fountaincourt is a remarkable case.  It seems he is not included because his dam sire Fountainhead descends from the dam Iota at the turn of the century who has no pedigree at all.  But get this : Fountainhead is put over Tickled Pink who is a grand daughter of Raphis...ring any bells ? 

Raphis is a full sister to Phar Lap !   

Why would you send a niece of Phar Lap to a non stud book stallion ?

Offline firezuki

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« 2013-Nov-13, 12:52 AM Reply #236 »
Because Phar Lap was overrated?    :biggrin:

Offline tontonan

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« 2013-Nov-13, 02:31 PM Reply #237 »
If he was over rated that is all the more reason to breed to the book.  People pay overs for over rated stuff. 

Fountaincourt was pretty good.  I think he held the 2500m record at Flemington for a time.

I have completed the Auries Star record but need to tabulate it.  Incredible career.  Won his 28th race on his 10th birthday, down the straight six of course in the VATC Moondah Plate (The VATC raced at Flemington as Caulfield was taken over by the Army during the war). 

God knows what his record would have been like if he had a menu of WFA sprints to contest.  From what I can gather there was only one 6F WFA race in Melbourne (the William Reid) and only one other under a mile (the Linlithgow).  Ironically he didn't win wither of them.

Whether or not the appropriation of 'group status' is cheap these days there is no doubt that 'principal' status for races under a mile was down right misery in his day.

Offline worldisavampire

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« 2013-Nov-13, 03:00 PM Reply #238 »
Surely this is the best thread on any racing forum. I read it to escape after a tough day.


Offline manikato1

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« 2013-Nov-13, 03:07 PM Reply #239 »

I'll post this to the Forum questions thread as well.

Was 'Doomben Gardens' the same course we know today ?

If so when did they stop straight racing at Doomben ?

I am way, way too young to remember, but I am pretty sure I heard/read that the Doomben straight course lasted until WWII.  I can't recall if Doomben was taken over during the war, but pretty sure that the straight course was taken over just after as the airport next door needed to expand.

Offline timw

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« 2013-Nov-13, 08:27 PM Reply #240 »
Not sure why I get a smiley face over Aurie's Star's pacesetter record of 1.07.8 for the 1200m.(see above). Many will recall that it took until Spring 1996 for Gold Ace to run 1.07.5 in the Craven A / Pure Pak / Gadsden etc to finally beat his time.  Need to check the weather chart but don't think a strong easterly breeze was blowing that day but I might be wrong.

At some stage the Doomben Newmarket became the Doomben Ten Thousand (over 7f less 93y (1323m.)) when the old straight six was abolished (due to airport expansion no doubt). When Bernborough won the 1946 Doomben Ten Thousand (name according to the ATR) some in the media referred to it as the TM Ahern Memorial (as it was known for a few years).  No doubt a check of the Courier Mail's of that period will solve the answer.  Miller's Guide says it was run over straight six between 19933/41 and over 7f, at Albion Park ,1942/45.  I seem to recall that John Wren put up 'ten thousand' when he took over Albion Park.

As an aside I note that Eagle Farm was originally known as 'Ascot' for many years and there would have been four Ascot's at one stage being Brisbane (until ?) and Perth (originally Perth racecourse until ?) and 'pony' tracks in both Melbourne (1893 to 1942 - near Flemington - possibly just east of the current showgrounds where there is now a public housing estate? - Tranquil Star once raced there) and Sydney (1904-1946 near and I think later part of Mascot airport).   

Offline tontonan

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« 2013-Nov-13, 10:01 PM Reply #241 »
1/ ':8)'  is the code to inserts the sunglassed smiley face.  You just fluked it.

2/ Check out dubbledee's excellent reply in the Forum questions thread regarding Doomben in 1941

3/ Auries's Star started at Ascot (Vic) half a dozen times including four renewals of the Superior Handicap

4/  The press reported a 'following breeze' the day Auries smashed the record. A true tail wind is a very rare thing at Flemington down the straight.  Easterlies are rare, weak and fleeting in Melbourne, but he could have got lucky.  He didn't beat the opposition by panels.  It is estimated that all the place getters broke the Australasian record as well.

5/ The timing at Flemington was started 'electrically' with the barrier rise but stopped by hand.  But human error is not that likely.  I mean, if Auries Star had of run the Newmarket record time of 1.10.7 the timekeeper would have needed to have hit the button at least 18 lengths early to record 1.08.25 - and timekeepers were pretty sharp in those days.  Otherwise the only other explanation is that the electrical device was slow to start but that too is unlikely.  Everything timed without a hitch on the day and while the times were good they certainly were not spectacular and no other record was threatened throughout the day (The WHittier was the only 6f race all day)

6/ The horse was not all out.  The descriptions in the press suggest the rider was easy on him at the line.

7/ He was 8 years old and carried 10.2 (64.5kg)

8/ The horse he beat All Veil equalled the race and course record set by St Ardent in 1929 of 1.10.7

9/  The standing record that Auries Star broke was 1.09.4 run by Regal Bachelor

Monday 9 September

 "Arie's Star's Brilliance

MELBOURNE, Sept. 8.-Aurie's Star broke the Australian record for sir fur longs. at Flemington yesterday in the Whittier Handicap. Aurie's Star ran the journey in 1.8.¼, which took a second and a quarter off Regular Bachelor's Plemington and Australian recotd, and as All Veil, Hilton, Adherent and Con Naru all finished within six lengths of him they too must have beaten Regular Bachelor's figures.

One jockey who rode in the race said that he could hardly believe such fast time was run. He said that the horses were aided by wind which, how ever, was not fully behind them, and that Aurie's Star was on the bit a furlong and a half from home and Creighton had not asked him for an effort.

Aurie's Star, who was always a hot favourite, was seen at his best form. Creighton nursed him for the first five furlongs, and when he moved on him in the last furlong he drew away to defeat All Veil comfortably. Hilton, having his first run for some months, ran a great race and almost headed Aurie's Star and All Veil two furlongs from home.

Offline dubbledee

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« 2013-Nov-13, 10:42 PM Reply #242 »
Just on the Doomben Newmarket...

During the War is was run at the Creek.  One of the most written about is the 1942 version when AUCTION won with 10 st 2 lbs before a huge crowd of US servicemen and Aussies looking for a diversion from the Pacific War - in which we were running 2nd at the time.

The race was run again at Doomben in 1946 when racing resumed.  However, it had been renamed the TM Ahern Memorial.  (Terry Ahern was the 2nd Chairman of BTC, but had died in 1945 after 12 years in office.)

On June 1 1946, the Mighty BERNBOROUGH (10st 5 lb = 65.7 kg) won the TM Ahern over 7 furlongs less 93 yards (today's 1350m) with a purse of 10,000 pounds.  That was a HUGE amount, by national standards of the day.  The field was 27!!!  It took 15 mins to assemble the field in the open barrier.

A week later BERNBOROUGH carried 10st 11lbs to win the Doomben Cup over 11 furlongs.

Offline tontonan

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« 2013-Nov-14, 04:08 PM Reply #243 »
In Auries Star time there is one song on everyone's lips -

"I like Aeroplane jelly, Aeroplane Jelly for me
I like it for dinner, I like for tea
A little each day is a good recipe"

Little wonder they liked it so much.  The dole and old age pension was slashed from £2 to 15 shillings.  At the depth of the depression it was about all they could afford to eat.

The newspapers are full of stories of magnificent men (and women) in their flying machines.  They went up diddly up, up but with great regularity they went down diddly down, down. The Germans made it to Timor before they run out of gas and crashed in northern Australia where they would have starved to death if the locals hadn't introduced them to bush tucker. Bert Hinkler died when he crashed over Italy attempting to fly London to Sydney.  24 year old kiwi Kay Warren succeeded in making the flight in 19 days and nights.  Kingsford Smith dropped out of the sky over  the Bay of Bengal.

But despite this, George Badman, modern man that was left Auries Star in Brisbane and flew back to Melbourne which took him 'just 10 hours'.  Auries Star came home by motor float.

In the 1840's Jorrocks walked the 19 counties from race meeting to race meeting.  In the 1860's Archer came to Melbourne by steam boat.  In 1876 we lost the two Melbourne Cup favourites when they drowned on the decks of the City of Sydney.  In 1889 Carbine goes to Sydney by train.  Auries Star travelled by motor float.

Every horse is captured in its own time ... but 1.08¼ is not only ahead of its time, its low level flying !


Offline timw

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« 2013-Nov-17, 05:52 AM Reply #244 »
Shannon (AUS) 1941 ('Shannon II' in USA)                                 
44 starts, 20 wins (5 x Group 1), 8 seconds and 7 thirds.  Win % 45.5, Place % 79.5.                                  
Australia: 25 starts 14 wins (4 x Group 1), 7 seconds 0 thirds.                                 
USA: 19 starts 6 wins (1 x Grade 1) 1 second 7 thirds.                                  
Retired as Australasia's greatest stakewinner.                                   
Some USA details are taken from the recent book 'Shannon' by Jessica Owers and other details are based on press reports which may not be reliable and I do not have the sources or resources to cross check. In some cases I have noted the differences between Jessica Owers data and other sources.                                 
In her career summary Jessica Overs has 5 x thirds and 7 x unplaced runs in 1948 year (table at p398) which is inconsistent with detailed table at pp399-402.  The figures should be 7 x thirds and 5 x unplaced runs.  The correct figures for the USA are as set out above.                                  
I have calculated Shannon's Australian winnings as being £18,947.50 whereas Jessica Owers has a figure of £100 less. I have included the £100 value of the the gold cup for winning AJC King's Cup run 12/10/1946 which maybe the reason for the difference.                                 
In her career summary Jessica Owers has Shannon's US winnings as USD 212,810 (p398) however the total of all the winnings listed in the detailed table at pp399-402 adds up to USD 212,110. 
According to the 1949 American Racing Manual Shannon earned USD 1,500 and not USD 2,000  from his third placing on 11 Nov 1948 in the Marchbank Hcp. Jessica Owers had a figure of USD 2,000 in the table at Appendix A of her book.
The SMH of 27/11/1948 had US career winnings at USD 211,610 and this is the total in the 1949 American Racing Manual.
During the time Shannon raced in the USA the USD was pegged at USD3.224 to 1.00 AUS Pound (wikipedia).

I have estimated Shannon's career AUD winnings as follows:

Australian earnings at £18,947.50 (decimalised) = AUD 37,895
United States earnings USD 211,610 (USD 3.224 = £1.00) = £65,635.85 (decimalised) = AUD 131,271.71.
Total earnings AUD 169,166.71.

This total is very close to the pounds figure appearing in Garrie Hutchinson's 1999 book 'They’re Racing! The complete story of Australian racing'.                                  
While the pound value of Par Lap's winning's from Mexico is less clear I have interpolated from the figures appearing in The Argus of 22/3/1932 that the conversion rate would have been circa US$2.92 to £1.00. Phar Lap's USD 50,500 winnings (based on the DRF results chart for race no. 69512), not USD50,050 as commonly reported, converted to £17,140 for a career total of £73,565.                                  
Whatever the correct figure might be for either horse (and some commentator's have Phar Lap on a lesser figure) there is no doubt Shannon retired as Australasia's greatest stake winner.                                   
I have ignored the US racing year (calendar year) and used the Australian racing year to allocate the USA starts by age/year.                                  
TWO YEARS:  1943-1944  Starts 7:  3-3-0-1                                 
2nd-12   9/10/1943.   Hd x 4L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Breeders Plate   5f.   1005m.   8.5.   53kg   1.02.5.   7/2.   Victory Lad 8.5 20/1 1st
2nd-18   23/10/1943.   0.5L x 5L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Canonbury Stakes   5f.   1005m.   8.5.   53kg   0.59.0.   7/4F   Majesty 8.5 2/1 1st
1st-12   20/11/1943.   3L x 3L   run at Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Two Year Old Stakes   5f. 14y.   1019m.   8.5.   53kg   1.01.0   11/8F   Tea Rose 8.7 7/1 2nd
1st-7   27/11/1943.   2L x 2L   run at Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Kirkham Stakes   5f. 14y.   1019m.   8.5.   53kg   1.01.5.   1/2F   Tea Rose 8.0 4/1 2nd
5th-23*   18/03/1944.   4L x lg hd   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Services' Hcp   6f. 20½y.   1226m.   9.5.   59.5kg   1.14.5.   Odds?   Britannic 7.10 5/2EF 1st
2nd-13   1/04/1944.   Nk x 1.5L   run at Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Fairfield Hcp (2nd Division)   6f. 20⅔y.   1226m.   8.13.   56.5kg   1.13.75.   4/5F   Liberality 7.1 20/1 1st
1st-12   8/04/1944.   0.5L x 3L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Sires' Produce Stakes (G1)   7f.   1408m.   8.10.   55.5kg   1.25.0.   2/1F   Tea Rose 8.8 7/1 2nd
* Overs has Shannon finishing 4th in this race however the ATR records unplaced horses in weight order rather than place order.  According to the SMH Felcorn finished 4th and Shannon 5th.                                 
THREE YEARS:  1944-1945  Starts 4:  1-0-0-3                                 
8th-13**   26/08/1944.   ½ nk x 2.5L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   STC Flying Hcp   6f. 20y.   1225m.   7.6.   47kg   1.14.25.   12/1.   Tribal 7.13 6/1 1st
1st-11   2/09/1944.   1.5L x 2.5L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Hobartville Stakes   7f. 26y.   1432m.   8.10.   55.5kg   1.25.75.   4/1.   Cold Shower 8.0 8/1 2nd
5th-16***   23/09/1944.   2.5L x nk   Rosehill, Sydney, NSW, AUS   STC Rosehill Guineas   9f.   1810m.   8.5.   53kg   1.52.0.   1/1F   Tea Rose 8.0 12/1 1st
6th-11   14/10/1944.   2L x 1.5L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Derby   12f.   2414m   8.10.   55.5kg   2.33.5.   3/1.   Tea Rose 8.5 9/4F 1st
** Overs has Shannon finishing 11th in this race however the ATR records unplaced horses in weight order rather than place order.  According to the SMH Goose Boy finished 11th and Shannon 8th.                                 
*** Overs has Shannon finishing 4th in this race however the ATR seems to record unplaced horses in this set weight race in betting order rather than place order.  According to the SMH Accession finished 4th and Shannon 5th.                                 
FOUR YEARS:  1945-1946  Starts 5:  4-1-0-0                                 
1st-14   25/08/1945.   2L x sht hd   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Campbelltown Hcp   6f. 20⅔y.   1226m.   9.1.   57.5kg   1.12.5.   20/1.   Warlock 7.12 7/2F 2nd
1st-16   8/09/1945.   Nk x 1L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   Tattersall's Club Tramway Hcp   7f. 26y.   1432m.   9.1.   57.5kg   1.24.5.   5/1.   Flight 9.1 8/1 2nd
1st-7   15/09/1945.   2L x 2.5L   Rosehill, Sydney, NSW, AUS   STC Hill Stakes   8.5f.   1709m.   9.0.   57kg   1.45.0.   9/10F   Cold Shower 9.0 4/1 2nd
1st-17   29/09/1945.   ½ nk x ½ nk   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Epsom Handicap (G1)   8f.   1609m   8.10.   55.5kg   1.36.25   2/1F   Melhero 8.12 25/1 2nd
2nd-6   6/10/1945.   2L x 1L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Craven Plate   10f.   2011m.   9.0.   57kg   2.03.0.   6/4F   Flight 8.13 4/1 1st
FIVE YEARS:  1946-1947  Starts 5: 4-1-0-0                                 
1st-18   31/08/1946.   0.5L x 1L   run at Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Campbelltown Hcp   6f. 19y.   1224m.   9.11.   62kg   1.11.5   5/1.   Puffham 8.7 12/1 2nd
1st-14   21/09/1946.   0.5L x nk   Rosehill, Sydney, NSW, AUS   STC Theo Marks Quality Hcp   7f.   1408m.   9.5.   59.5kg   1.22.5.   4/5F.   Dowborough 7.8 50/1 2nd
2nd-15****   5/10/1946.   ½ hd x ½ hd   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Epsom Hcp   8f   1609m.   9.9.   61kg   1.36.25   4/5F   Blue Legend 8.9 10/1 1st
1st-4   7/10/1946.   6L x 4L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC George Main Stakes (G1)   8f.   1609m.   9.3.   58.5kg   1.34.25.(ANZR)   1/3F   Flight 8.12 7/2 2nd
1st-8   12/10/1946.   2.5L x 1.25L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC King's Cup   12f.   2414m.   9.5.   59.5kg   2.29.75 (RR)   9/4EF   Flight 8.7 5/1 2nd
**** Left at post in hands of clerk of course when starter let field go giving leaders almost 15 lengths start.                                  
SIX YEARS:  1947-1948  Starts 00:  00-00-00-00                                 
2nd-10   30/08/1947.   1L x ½ nk   Warwick Farm, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Warwick Stakes   7f. 19⅔y.   1426m.   9.3.   58.5kg   1.25.25.   1/3F   Victory Lad 9.3 11/2 1st
1st-6   6/09/1947.   0.75L x nk   Canterbury, Sydney, NSW, AUS   STC Canterbury Stakes   6f.   1207m.   9.2.   58kg   1.13.5.   1/3F   Deep Sea 8.0 10/1 2nd
1st-3   6/10/1947.   ½ nk x 4L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC George Main Stakes (G1)   8f.   1609m.   9.3   58.5kg   1.36.5.   1/4F   Victory Lad 9.3 7/2 2nd
2nd-3   8/10/1947.   ½ nk x 0.5L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Craven Plate   10f.   2011m.   9.4.   59kg   2.02.5.   1/3F   Russia 9.4 8/1 1st
SIX YEARS:  1947-1948  Starts 13: 3-1-4-5                                 
3rd-7   24/01/1948.   1.75L x 1L   Santa Anita Park, Arcadia, near LA, CA, USA   Bien Venudos Amigos#   7f.   1408m.   117lbs   53kg   1.22.8.   Fast 9/2.   Windfields (CAN) 117 7/1 1st
3rd-6   3/02/1948.   Nk x 4L   Santa Anita Park, Arcadia, near LA, CA, USA   La Canada Purse##   7f.   1408m.   115lbs   52kg   1.23.4.   5/3F   Plumper 110 1st
8th-18   14/02/1948.   Nk x 2.5L   Santa Anita Park, Arcadia, near LA, CA, USA   San Antonio Hcp   9f.   1810m   117lbs   57kg   1.49.4.   3/1F with On Trust   Talon (ARG) 122 1st
14th-14   28/02/1948.   Nk x 1.75L   Santa Anita Park, Arcadia, near LA, CA, USA   Santa Anita Hcp   10f.   2011m.   126lbs   57kg   2.03.4.   4/1 with On Trust   Talon 122 1st
2nd-5   21/04/1948.   Nse x 5L   Bay Meadows, near San Francisco, CA, USA   Marina (or Marine) Purse   6f.   1207m.   122lbs   55.5kg   1.10.8.   Odds?   Barbastel 110 1st
7th-11   1/05/1948.   Nk x 2.25L   Bay Meadows, near San Francisco, CA, USA   Bay Meadows Hcp   9f.   1810m.   116lbs   52.5kg   1.51.0.   Odds?   Mafosta (IRE) 126 1st
1st-6   8/05/1948.   12L x 1.5L   Bay Meadows, near San Francisco, CA, USA   San Francisco County Hcp (Eighth Running)   9.5f.   1910m.   114lbs   52kg   1.55.6 (CR)   Fast $US6.10   Why Alibi 103 2nd
4th-6   25/05/1948.   1.75L x 3L   Hollywood Park, Inglewood, LA, CA, USA   Angelino Purse   8f.   1609m.   112lbs   51kg   1.36.0.   Fast   Mafosta (IRE) 118 1st
1st-8   31/05/1948.   1.25L x 1.25L   Hollywood Park, Inglewood, LA, CA, USA   Argonaut Hcp (Seventh Running)   8.5f. (dirt)   1709m.   112lbs   51kg   1.42.4   Odds?   Mafosta (IRE)  124 2nd
3rd-6   17/06/1948.   Nk x 10L   Hollywood Park, Inglewood, LA, CA, USA   Riverside County Hcp   8f.   1609m.   118lbs   53.5kg   1.36.6.   Odds?   Mafosta (IRE) 126 1st
6th-7   5/07/1948.   Nk x 0.75L   Hollywood Park, Inglewood, LA, CA, USA   American Hcp   9f.   1810m.   120lbs   54.5kg   1.50.4.   Odds?   Stepfather 111 1st
1st-9   17/07/1948.   2L x 1.5L   Hollywood Park, Inglewood, LA, CA, USA   Hollywood Gold Cup (G1)   10f.   2011m.   116lbs   52.5kg   2.01.6.   Coupled with stablemates   On Trust 128 2nd
3rd-   24/07/1948.   3L x 0.75L   Hollywood Park, Inglewood, LA, CA, USA   Sunset Hcp   13f.   2615m.   124lbs   56kg   2.41.0 (AustR 2.41.5)   Odds?   Drumbeat 100 1st
#Translates to 'Welcome Friends'.  Maybe incorrect. Racename does not appear in Overs book and stated to be a race without a name.                                  
## Maybe incorrect. Racename does not appear in Overs book and is stated to be a race without a name.                                  
SEVEN YEARS:  1948-1949  Starts 6: 3-0-3-0                                 
3rd-6   24/09/1948.   Nk x 1.5L   Golden Gate Fields, Albany, near San Francisco,  CA, USA   Walnut Creek Hcp   6f.   1207m.   122lbs   55.5kg   1.10.0.   Odds?   Mafosta (IRE) 9.0 1st
3rd-12   2/10/1948.   Hd x 0.75L   Golden Gate Fields, Albany, near San Francisco,  CA, USA   Golden Gate Mile Hcp^   8f. (turf)   1609m.   122lbs   55.5kg   1.34.4 (EWR)   Odds?   Prevaricator 118 1st
1st-9   17/10/1948.   1.25L x 0.5L   Golden Gate Fields, Albany, near San Francisco,  CA, USA   Forty Niners Hcp   9f.   1810m.   124lbs   55.5kg   1.47.6 (EWR)   Odds?   Mafosta 125 2nd
1st-13   23/10/1948.   2L x 0.5L   Golden Gate Fields, Albany, near San Francisco,  CA, USA   Golden Gate Hcp   10f.   2011m.   124lbs   56kg   1.59.8 (AmR & EWR)   Odds?   See-tee-see 116 2nd
3rd-5   11/11/1948.   Nk x hd   Tanforan, San Bruno, CA, USA   Marchbank Hcp   8.5f.   1709m.   127lbs   57.5kg   1.44.0. (ECR)   Odds?   Please Me 109 1st
1st-10   25/11/1948.   Hd x 0.75L   Tanforan, San Bruno, CA, USA   San Francisco Hcp   9f.   1810m.   127lbs   57.5kg   1.50.8 (CR)   Odds?   Stepfather 111 2nd
^ This was the first running of the race which is now called the San Francisco Mile Stakes.   

Edit :  I have attached Brian's account of Shannon's career to this post in cause of good house keeping                           
« Last Edit: 2017-Feb-16, 11:25 PM by tontonan »

Offline wily ole dog

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« 2013-Nov-17, 02:08 PM Reply #245 »

Can you help me with the record of my first bet on a track. Neptunes Kingdom in the early 70's  :lol:

Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2013-Nov-17, 02:11 PM Reply #246 »

NEPTUNE'S KINGDOM, Ch. c. 1966, Star Kingdom (IRE) -- Llanwryst, by Pan (FR). 
Race Summary: 55 Starts. 9-10-9 $29,785 

Offline wily ole dog

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« 2013-Nov-17, 02:23 PM Reply #247 »
wow, Geoff, 1966.....I must have my time frame out of kilter....perhaps I started even earlier than I recall :chin:

Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2013-Nov-17, 02:26 PM Reply #248 »
Year of birth.

Offline tontonan

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« 2013-Nov-17, 05:41 PM Reply #249 »
That's just brilliant Tim.  Shannon's record has always been a bug bear for me.  This is the most complete I have seen.

I just had a win...on eBay.  I picked up a copy of Peter Pring's 'Analysis of the Champion Racehorse' for $17.45.  Best win I have had all spring.