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Offline pwa

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« 2014-Jun-29, 09:32 AM Reply #575 »
Thanks for that, TimW. I really appreciate you checking my compilations. I had completely missed that 1884 Melbourne Stakes placing. Given that it was unlikely he went into the Melbourne Cup without a start for 6 months I should have looked more closely and looking again this morning, it was in my main source, The Australasian of 17/10/1885! That career survey is very good but had missed a couple of his 3yo starts.

Warwick Hobson, who is usually very reliable and had done an amazing amount of research through the old Turf Registers had him as 34 starts. His series titled The Racehorse Register which ran across a few years in Turf Monthly in the late 1970s is a fantastic resource.

The Referee, 13/1/1887 had a generous account of his career and place in racing history but I liked the summing up in Commotion's obituary that you posted. Reginald, who defeated him in Sydney, was far from a champion. So many good horses even up to today are flogged beyond all respect for their place in history. An example is VRC Derby winner, Melbourne, who spent his last years picking up races in places like Maryborough, Rockhampton and Toowoomba before ending his career at Roma.

I'll check again for those missing starts mentioned by Jack Pollard. All accounts agree that he didn't start as a 2yo so it's likely that any missing starts are at 3.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2014-Jun-30, 11:41 PM Reply #576 »
Came across some old Turf Monthly's the other week.

Double Century would have been 3yo HOTY in any other year except he ran into a few good ones in Dulcify, Scomeld, Kapalaran, Melb Cup placegetter Red Nose, Just A Steal and Valley Of Georgia.

In fact he was first past the post in the AJC Derby but relegated to 2nd on protest behind Dulcify.




Turf Monthly had a ratings system where they gave a rating to the best horses running around at the time. Some of the entries give an insight into how strong the contemporary horses were at the time - I think Dulcify was killed in the 1979 Cup so not in the list.

A lot of these names won't mean anything to younger readers but I'm sure those of us who were following racing at around this time will remember a few of these.

Always Welcome 62
Arwon 63
Big Print 59
Bit Of A Skite 62
Blockbuster 62
Cafe 57
Century Miss 56
Double Century 66
Great Klaire 61
Grey Affair 58
Gypsy Kingdom 62 (good Qld horse - chestnut with 3 white feet and a big white blaze if I remember correctly)
He'll Do 61
Hit It Benny 54
Hyperno 65
Imposing 62
Just A Steal 58
Karaman 58
Kero 59 (I remember him! Lightning fast Brisbane horse)
Kingston Town 61 (was still only a 3yo in Feb 1980)
Manikato 67
Marjoleo 60
Mighty Kingdom 62 (last winner of the Caulfield Cup as a 3yo?)
Minuetto 58
Mondiso 58
Oenjay Star 58
Over The Ocean 57
Painted Red 59
Quiet Snort 62
Reckon I'm Ready 59
Red Nose 62
Regimental Honour 59
Salamander 63
Scomeld 62
Smokey Jack 58
Taksan 60
Turf Ruler 57
Valley Of Georgia 60
Waitangaru 60
Zephyr Zip 59

Offline pwa

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« 2014-Jul-01, 08:11 AM Reply #577 »
Good memories there, PP. Big Print died in the running of the 1980 Melbourne Cup (I had a few dollars on him) and Mighty Kingdom could have been anything but went too early as well. Zephyr Zip was a pretty good 2yo.

Offline tontonan

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« 2014-Jul-01, 02:13 PM Reply #578 »
My memory is as bad as my eye sight but I thought the Optimist's ratings were out of 100, and you subtracted the horse's handicap from the rating to get a final figure.

I lost my TM Annual collection due to a vindictive girlfriend who put them in the recycle bin.  I think she was trying to tell me something.  I lost my Miller's Guide collection from the 1960's and 70's in a flood along with a turf guide collection interleaved with the Sporting Globe photo charts for every Melbourne meeting from Guineas Day 1973 to the mid 1980's.  Gee, I wish they had survived (even though the Sporting Globe didn't).

Double Century's spanking win int he Sydney Cup suggested he could be anything but he never won the following season (again, my failing memory) but ran a number of WFA seconds.
Mighty Kingdom left the track early to take the place of Planet Kingdom at stud who was put down after bobbing around in a floatation tank in a vain effort to save him from a catastrophic broken leg.  Great shame.  He was a very good sire from the Star Kingdom line whose progeny could stay.

I remember Turf Ruler as something of a nut case.  Minuetto was a personal favoourite.  She had a habit of winning good races at a price.  Reckon I'm Ready was Leilani's brother and over rated because of it.  Oenjay Star was flyer named after lovely Olivia - but a bit of a squib.   And Manikato was the only horse that I have ever got out of bed to watch work on those chilly mornings at Mordialloc.  As great as his record is seeing Manikato was something else again.

Great memories.


Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2014-Jul-01, 02:43 PM Reply #579 »
And Manikato was the only horse that I have ever got out of bed to watch work on those chilly mornings at Mordialloc.

That issue has an article on Jack Holt, the "Wizard of Mordialloc".

Arn Rogers and Warwick Hobson wrote fantastic articles often with first hand observations about past happenings on the track.

When I read them 34 years on, you realize these can actually be considered to have some historic worth (in regard to Australian Horse Racing History).

When I scanned the front page last night, I also scanned Arn Rogers' "Viewpoint" where he recalls a discussion between John Tapp and Athol George Mulley about great fillies of the past and then presents his own expansion on that. Fillies like Valicare, Chaperone, Hesione and Fidelity, all trained by Bayly Payten, have their racing careers described in Arn's own unique style - a combination of historic fact and commentary.

He is especially glowing when describing Valicare when she was beaten by Windbag at Warwick Farm:

"Windbag beat Valicare by a short neck in track record time. Hardened racegoers cried when Valicare was defeated. The crowds really loved her".

Here is the article (posted without permission - if I am infringing anyone's IP and it upsets them let me know and I'll take it down).








Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2014-Jul-01, 03:06 PM Reply #580 »
My memory is as bad as my eye sight but I thought the Optimist's ratings were out of 100, and you subtracted the horse's handicap from the rating to get a final figure.

I lost my TM Annual collection due to a vindictive girlfriend who put them in the recycle bin.  I think she was trying to tell me something.  I lost my Miller's Guide collection from the 1960's and 70's in a flood along with a turf guide collection interleaved with the Sporting Globe photo charts for every Melbourne meeting from Guineas Day 1973 to the mid 1980's.  Gee, I wish they had survived (even though the Sporting Globe didn't).

Double Century's spanking win int he Sydney Cup suggested he could be anything but he never won the following season (again, my failing memory) but ran a number of WFA seconds.
Mighty Kingdom left the track early to take the place of Planet Kingdom at stud who was put down after bobbing around in a floatation tank in a vain effort to save him from a catastrophic broken leg.  Great shame.  He was a very good sire from the Star Kingdom line whose progeny could stay.

I remember Turf Ruler as something of a nut case.  Minuetto was a personal favoourite.  She had a habit of winning good races at a price.  Reckon I'm Ready was Leilani's brother and over rated because of it.  Oenjay Star was flyer named after lovely Olivia - but a bit of a squib.   And Manikato was the only horse that I have ever got out of bed to watch work on those chilly mornings at Mordialloc.  As great as his record is seeing Manikato was something else again.

Great memories.


That is  a tragedy that you lost all that memorabilia Tontonan.

Just on the Optimist's ratings, they look very much to me to be more like Don Scott's ratings (which I think he acknowledged were based on the mathematics of Pittsburgh Phil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_E._Smith_(gambler) ). I should add that The Optimist's ratings predated the publications of Don Scott - not by much.

The top rater is Hyperno with 65 - with Don Scott's method if Hyperno won a Group 1 Handicap with 6 above the limit he would rate 72 so they do not appear to be identical. The ratings appear to range from 50-65 at a quick glance.

The instructions say you are to subtract the weight carried from the rating giving you a net rating, ignoring any apprentice's claims.

You back the highest rater and save on the second rated horse. You are further instructed that if there is a tie, that you give preference to the lowest TAB number in handicaps and the higher TAB number in WFA races.

The Optimist recommends that you start with a bank of $100, and bet either 2 or 4 percent of the bank and aim to double your money in a year - at 100% annual return,  I know now where to put my superannuation money   :biggrin:

Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2014-Jul-01, 05:23 PM Reply #581 »
Did you lose the girl as well?

Offline wily ole dog

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« 2014-Jul-01, 08:29 PM Reply #582 »



A lot of these names won't mean anything to younger readers but I'm sure those of us who were following racing at around this time will remember a few of these.

Always Welcome 62
Arwon 63
Bit Of A Skite 62
Blockbuster 62
Century Miss 56
Double Century 66
Grey Affair 58
Gypsy Kingdom 62 (good Qld horse - chestnut with 3 white feet and a big white blaze if I remember correctly)
Hit It Benny 54
Hyperno 65
Imposing 62
Karaman 58
Kingston Town 61 (was still only a 3yo in Feb 1980)
Manikato 67
Marjoleo 60
Mighty Kingdom 62 (last winner of the Caulfield Cup as a 3yo?)
Oenjay Star 58
Quiet Snort 62
Red Nose 62
Salamander 63
Scomeld 62
Turf Ruler 57
Zephyr Zip 59


Wonderful lot :clap2: Remembered fondly and their records certainly stack up with todays hyped lot

Offline wily ole dog

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« 2014-Jul-01, 08:30 PM Reply #583 »
Would love to have a Hyperno or Salamader running around today

Offline Authorized

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« 2014-Jul-01, 11:02 PM Reply #584 »
Would love to have a Hyperno or Salamader running around today

Why do you suppose we don't ?

Offline firezuki

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« 2014-Jul-01, 11:29 PM Reply #585 »
Because they would be too old.

Offline tontonan

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« 2014-Jul-02, 12:37 AM Reply #586 »
JWH,  I put her in the recycle bin.

PP7, It is coming back to me now.  I think The Optimist changed methods sometime in the 1970's.  My collection started in the early 1970s.  By the 80's I was only collecting the Annuals.

I reckon it is largely a matter of perception with what we remember of horses in the 1970s.  I mean the only import I can recall racing in Australia during the 1970s was Raffindale.  They were rare then, now they are everywhere and if the locals had to contend with the amount of imported stock they do today perhaps the records of the horses of the 1970's might not have been quite as distinguished. 

The other thing that has changed is the way our leading races are staked.  In 1978-79 :

$239,000 Golden Slipper
$200,000 Melbourne Cup
$200,000 AJC Derby
$177,700 WATC Australian Derby
$150,000 Sydney Cup
$150,000 Caulfield Cup
$150,000 Tancred Stakes
$145,500 WS Cox Plate
$124,000 Perth Cup
$125,000 Rosehill Guineas
$120,000 Doomben 10,000 (Rothmans 100,000)
$100,000 Blue Diamond Stakes
$100,000 Stradbroke Hcp, Futurity Sks, Australian Cup, Newmarket Hcp, Doncaster Hcp, Epsom Hcp, Metropolitan Hcp, Victoria Derby

There was more of a national circuit in the 1970's and because the stakes profile was much flatter horses tended to campaign at various carnivals throughout the season.  These days the stakes money is much more concentrated, the racing much more focused on the Melbourne and Sydney carnivals.

Reckless campaigned in Melbourne, Sydney, Adelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne and Perth in 1978.  We just don't see that sort of national campaigning any more.


Offline Authorized

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« 2014-Jul-02, 01:03 AM Reply #587 »
I reckon there are at least 2 reasons why horses do not campaign as did in the good old days

1 drugs

2 geldings without the drugs.


Offline pwa

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« 2014-Jul-03, 09:48 AM Reply #588 »
Strathmore (first known as Halbert)

(Nordenfeldt –Ouida)

Particularly well-bred, injury stopped him racing after his 3yo season but the spring of that season was a great one and had him (prematurely) being compared to Carbine. Contemporary accounts had him Horse of the Season ahead of the inconsistent Marvel. He was twice top weight for the Melbourne Cup. In the 1891 Cup, the winner, Malvolio, cannoned into Strathmore just before turning into the straight, causing Strathmore to lose at least a dozen lengths.

Of those he raced against, Highborn ended up in India where he assembled a record regarded as superior to that of any other Australian-bred horse to race there, while Stromboli was a very good horse sent to America to an unsuccessful career when well past his prime.

12 starts 7/2/2/1

1890-1891 2yo

1 start -/1/-/-

2nd – 7/3/1891 Flemington Unplaced Two Year-Old Stakes, 5½ furlongs, 1st Lai, 1min 10sec, 4 lengths

1891-1892 3yo

11 starts 7/1/2/1

1st – 10/10/1891 Caulfield Guineas, 1 mile, (8st 5lb), 2nd Stromboli (8st 12lb), 1min 44¾ sec, length
1st – 31/10/1891 Flemington VRC Derby, 1½ miles, (8st 10lb), 2nd Stromboli (8st 10lb), 2min 41½ sec, 1¼ lengths
3rd – 3/11/1891, Flemington Melbourne Cup, 2 miles, (7st 12lb), 1st Malvolio (8st 4lb), 3min 29½sec, ½length, neck
1st – 7/11/1891 Flemington Foal Stakes, 1¼ miles, (9st 6lb), 2nd Sainfoin (8st 10lb), 2min 9¾sec, 4 lengths
1st – 27/2/1892 Flemington VRC St Leger, (8st 10lb), 1¾ miles and 132 yards, 2nd Oxide (8st 10lb), 3min 17¾ sec, won very easily by 3 lengths
2nd – 1/3/1892 Flemington Australian Cup, 2¼ miles, (8st 10lb), 1st Highborn (9st 4lb), 4min 2¼ sec, 2½ lengths
1st – 3/3/1892 Flemington Champion Stakes, 3 miles, (7st 12lb), 2nd Zalinski (7st 12lb), (3rd Highborn, 4th Megaphone), 6min 53sec, 3 lengths
1st – 5/3/1892 Flemington All-Aged Stakes, (8st 6lb), 1 mile, 2nd Bungebah (8st 10lb), 1min 40½sec, length
1st – 16/4/1892 Randwick Autumn Stakes, 1½ miles, (8st 4lb), 2nd Highborn, 3rd Bungebah, 2min 43sec, 2 lengths
Unpl – 18/4/1892 Randwick Sydney Cup, 2 miles, (9st 2lb), 1st Stromboli (8st), 2nd Oxide (7st 10lb), 3rd Highborn (9st 4lb), 3min 31½ sec, head
3rd – 21/4/1892 Randwick Cumberland Stakes, 2 miles, (8st 2lb), 1st Marvel (9st 4lb), 2nd Highborn (9st 1lb), 4th Stromboli, 3min 43¼sec, 1¼ lengths, 3 lengths

(As always with these compilations of old racing records, there is a possibility a start could have been missed so please post any corrections)

Offline tontonan

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« 2014-Jul-03, 06:34 PM Reply #589 »
PROTEST !   Strathmore was a highly talented colt but I would have my money on Marvel for the Horse of the 1891-92 season.   

Strathmore had 7 wins for the season.  He was unbeaten in 4 starts against his own age and had 7 starts in all aged company and won 3 races - the VRC Champion Sks, VRC All Aged Stakes (defeating Bungebah) and the AJC Autumn Stakes (defeating Highborn).   His Champion Stakes win took 6 minutes and 53 seconds to complete the course -

" The Champion Race this year was quite unworthy ot the name, inasmuch as it was the slowest on record, and was made so by tho horses only cantering slowly for rather more than half the distance. The last mile and a quarter was certainly done at a rattling pace, and Strathmore bud no difficulty winning, except the boreing out of his stable companion, Zalinski, who ran him out into tho centre of the course, hut could not stop him from winning...The victory was a  popular one, despite the fact that the publio derided the "race" while it was going on.  So absurd does it seem to give 2000 sovs for a three miles race, and then to have that the horses only race for a mile and a half, that some members of the V R C committee have conceived the idea of fixing a time limit-say, 5 minutes 35 seconds-and making a condition that tho winner should not reçeive tho prize money unless he covered the three miles under this time."

(http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article138417290 )

The new condition was introduced the following year with the winner forfeiting half the stake if the race was not completed in under 5 minutes 45 seconds.

Strathmore beat Bungebah for the All Aged Stakes at Flemington and Highborn in the Autumn Stakes at Randwick to give him 3 WFA wins for the season while 3 of his four defeats in the season were in open handicaps.  He was certainly weighted a good colt : 7.12 beat him in the Melbourne Cup, 8.10 in the Australian Cup and 9.2 in the Sydney Cup.


Marvel had 8 wins from 15 starts for the season.  Timw gives his record for the season as follows :

FIVE YEARS:  1891-1892  Starts 15: 8-0-3-4

1st-28 12/09/1891. Lg hd x Sht L Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS AJC Epsom Handicap 8f. 1609m. 10.2. 64.5kg 1.40.5 Good 5/4F Muriel 8.4 100/5 2nd
1st-4 17/09/1891. Sht nk x 1.5L Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS AJC Craven Plate 10f. 2011m. 9.4 59kg 2.11.0. 1/3F Megaphone 9.0 100/30 2nd
1st-6 19/09/1891. 1.75L x 4L Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS AJC Waverley Hcp 14f. 2816m. 10.5. 66kg 3.06.0. 1/1F Cobham 9.0 5/1 2nd
1st-16 10/10/1891. 1L x 0.5L Caulfield, Melbourne, VIC, AUS VATC Caulfield Stakes 9f. 1810m. 9.11. 62kg 1.57.5 2/1F Bungebah 9.4 5/2 2nd
1st-13 31/10/1891. 0.5L x 3.0L Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS VRC Melbourne Stakes (later Mackinnon Stakes) 10f. 2011m. 9.4. 59kg 2.17.25 1/2F Marvel 9.4 1/2F 1st
3rd-3 5/11/1891. 1L x 0.5L Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS VRC Flying Stakes 7f. 1408m. 9.2. 58kg 1.27.0 1/3F Trieste 5.11 (2YO) 10/1 1st
1st-4 5/11/1891. 1.5L x hd Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS VRC Royal Park Stakes 13f. 2615m. 9.11. 62kg 2.52.0 1/1F Highborn 9.0 2/1 2nd
3rd-3 7/11/1891. Sht hd x 1L Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS VRC Canterbury Plate 16f. 3219m. 9.5. 59.5kg 4.00.0 1/5F Stead Fast 7.6 6/1 1st

Unpl-31 1/01/1892. 5L x 1.5L Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS Tatt's Club Carrington Stakes 6f. 1207m. 10.12. 69kg 1.14.5 8/1. Trieste 7.6 (2YO) 5/2F 1st
5th-14 2/01/1892. 0.5L x 1L Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS Tatt's Club Tattersall's Club Cup 16f. 3219m. 10.5. 66kg 3.34.5 5/2F St Alban's II 6.11 6/1 1st
1st-36 16/04/1892. Sht hd x nk Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS AJC Doncaster Handicap 8f. 1609m. 10.4. 65.5kg 1.41.75 15/1. Blaize 8.5 7/1 2nd
3rd-5 21/04/1892. 0.5L x hd Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS AJC All-Aged Stakes 8f. 1609m. 9.1. 57.5kg 1.41.0 1/1F Bungebah 8.12 7/1 1st
1st-4 21/04/1892. 1.75L x 3L Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS AJC Cumberland Stakes 16f. 3219m. 9.4. 59kg 3.43.25 3/1. Highborn 9.1 3/1 2nd
4th-4 23/04/1892. 1.25L x 1L Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS AJC Plate (later Queen Elizabeth Stakes) 24f. 4828m. 9.5. 59.5kg 5.51.5 4/5F La Tosca 7.12 5/1 1st
8th-23 28/05/1892. Sht nk x 0.5L Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS STC Queen's Birthday Cup 11f. 2212m. 10.9. 67.5kg 2.25.0 3/1F Pilot Boy 6.13 10/1 1st

The charge of inconsistency is not warranted.  He won 8 of his 15 starts for the season including the Epsom against 27 others with 64.5kg and the Doncaster against 30 others with 65.5kg.  He also won the Waverley Handicap under 66kg.   

Big weights stopped him at the Tatt's meeting when on consecutive days he was sent out against 30 sprinters under 69kg in the Carrington and again the following day in the 2mile Tatt's Club Cup under 66kg conceding the winners up to 50lbs  ! 

Marvel was not a two miler.  He was a brilliant miler/middle distance horse.  His defeat in the 2 mile Canterbury Plate was contreversial resulting in a dismissed protest and a stewards inquiry.  He also found trouble in the All Aged Stakes when Bungebah turned the tables but later the same day Marvel beat both Highborn and Strathmore in the Cumberland Stakes and Highborn and Strathmore were far better suited at 2 miles than Marvel.  If he wasn't a true 2 mile horse he certainly wasn't a three mile horse and was roundly beaten in a truly run AJC Plate.

The Cumberland was the only time Strathmore and Marvel met and WFA over 2 miles were more Strathmore's terms than Marvel's.

It probably says more about my prejudices than anything else but I regard a horse that can win out of their comfort zone and bear a massive weight disadvantages and win higher than a horse that dominates his own age at set weights.  Take the Champion Stakes off Strathmore's resume and his case is not quite so strong, and given that Strathmore's Champion Stakes was run 53 seconds slower than even time maybe the Champion Stakes was not worth writing home about in any case. 

Marvel had a tendency to pull against a slow pace but if there was ever a three mile race he would have won it would have been a 2 mile canter and a mile dash for the line.


Offline pwa

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« 2014-Jul-04, 10:48 AM Reply #590 »
I'd go along with you, Tontonan, but, at the time, the classic form was valued so highly and both the Australasian and Referee had him as the best of the season. Strathmore was written about in adulatory tones in the contemporary press but much of that was based on lost promise. His spring 3yo campaign was dominant but looking closely at his record, adding in the autumn, it wasn't outstanding. He was weighted 5lb more as a 3yo than Carbine in The Australian Cup and 2lb more than Carbine in the Sydney Cup as a 3yo which impressed many.

Marvel was regarded at the time as quite erratic over his career and some of his defeats were to ordinary horses but based on what we respect today in a horse and his record in the 1891 spring, from today's perspective Marvel would have to be the HOTY. Very different 120 years ago though! His 5yo season was his best by far.

That prejudice against milers/middle distance horses and their place in Australian turf history lasted for a long time.


Offline pwa

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« 2014-Jul-05, 07:23 PM Reply #591 »
The Australian Peer

Superbly named, this son of Darebin was a great 3yo in a crop that would equal the Saintly, Octagonal, Nothing Leica Dane and Filante generation in depth with Abercorn, Carlyon, Cranbrook and gun NZer Niagara as his opposition. The start of his 4yo season saw the emergence of another member of that generation, Mentor, who, before his unfortunate breakdown in the summer of 1889 was regarded as maybe the best of the lot. Abercorn proved far superior over the length of his career but it would be a coin-toss as to who was the better in 1887-88. (Having read plenty of contemporary accounts and descriptions of the races, I'd go with Abercorn very narrowly). Bleeding from the head in his last two starts forced The Australian Peer's retirement.

20 starts - 7/5/5/3

1887-1888 3yo

12 starts 5/4/2/1 (Abercorn 10 starts 6/3/-/1)

3rd – 17/9/1887 Randwick AJC Derby, 1½ miles, (8st 10lb), 1st Abercorn (8st 10lb), 2nd Niagara (8st 10lb), 2min 39½sec, 2 lengths, head
2nd – 20/9/1887 Randwick AJC Spring Maiden Stakes, 1½ miles, (7st 9lb), 1st Cranbrook (7st 9lb), 2min 45¾sec, length
1st – 24/9/1887 AJC Randwick Plate, 3 miles, (6st 10lb), 2nd Trident (9st), 5min 51½sec, 3 lengths
1st – 29/10/1887 Flemington VRC Derby, 1½ miles, (8st 10lb) = 2nd Abercorn and Niagara (both 8st 10lb), 2min 40sec, length
3rd – 1/11/1887 Flemington Melbourne Cup, 2 miles, (7st 5lb), 1st Dunlop (8st 3lb), 2nd Silvermine (8st 3lb), (4th Niagara [7st 3lb], 5th Abercorn [7st 7lb]), 3min 28½ sec, length, length, half-head
1st – 5/11/1887 Flemington Canterbury Plate, 2 ½ miles, (7st 3lb), 2nd Abercorn (7st 3lb), 4min 45sec, 1½ lengths, 20 lengths
2nd – 3/3/1888 Flemington VRC St Leger, 1¾ miles and 132 yards, (8st 10lb), 1st Abercorn (8st 10lb), 3min 15¼sec, ¾length, length
Unpl – 6/3/1888 Flemington Australian Cup, 2¼ miles, (8st 9lb), 1st Carlyon (8st 2lb), 2nd Arsenal (8st 10lb), 4min 5¼sec, ½ length
2nd – 31/3/1888 Randwick AJC St Leger, 1¾ miles, (8st 10lb), 1st Abercorn (8st 10lb), 3min 51sec, 1½ lengths
1st – 2/4/1888 Randwick Sydney Cup, 2 miles, (8st 6lb), 2nd Algerian (8st 2lb), 3min 32½ sec, 3 lengths, 3 lengths
1st –5/4/1888 Randwick Cumberland Stakes, 2 miles, (8st 2lb), 2nd Abercorn (8st 2lb), 3min 36¾sec, 1½ lengths
2nd – 7/04/1888 Randwick Australian Jockey Club Plate, 3 miles, (8st), 1st Abercorn (8st), 5min 37½sec, 2 lengths, 30 lengths

1888-1889 4yo

7 starts 2/1/3/1

1st – 22/9/1888Randwick Spring Stakes, 1½ miles, (9st), 2nd Abercorn (9st), length, 15 lengths, 2min 40sec
2nd – 27/9/1888 Randwick Craven Plate, 1¼ miles, (9st), 1st Abercorn (9st), 2min 19½sec, neck, 3 lengths
3rd – 29/9/1888 Randwick Plate, 3 miles, (9st), 1st Wycombe (6st 12lb), 6min 47½sec, 4-6 lengths, length (Abercorn [2nd] and The Australian Peer cantered for the first mile and a quarter, allowing Wycombe to get up to 60 lengths clear)
1st – 3/11/1888 Flemington Melbourne Stakes, 1¼ miles, (9st), 2nd Mentor (9st), 2min 12½sec, short length, short length
Unpl – 6/11/1888 Flemington Melbourne Cup, 2 miles, (9st 8lb), 1st Mentor (8st 3lb), 3min 30¾ sec, length
3rd – 10/11/1888 Flemington Canterbury Plate, 3 miles, (9st), 1st Mentor (9st), 5min 46sec, 2 lengths, bad third
3rd – 22/4/1889 Randwick Autumn Stakes, 1½ miles, (9st), 1st Abercorn (9st), 2nd Carbine, (8st 4lb), 2min 42sec, neck, 6 lengths, burst a blood vessel in the head

1889-1890 5yo

1start -/-/-/1

Unpl – 21/9/1889 Randwick Spring Stakes, 1½ miles, (9st 5lb), 1st Abercorn, (9st 5lb), 2min 41sec, ½ length, burst a blood vessel again

Offline tontonan

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« 2014-Jul-06, 10:14 AM Reply #592 »
'Burst a blood vessel in the head'  ?  I have always wondered about that. 

It was reported that way in various newspapers and it is almost certainly 19th century speak for 'Bled from the nostrils' - or at least I have always read it that way - which makes me wonder if the turf scribes understood what bleeding from the nostrils was all about.  I have always held the horse watchers of the 19th century in high regard.  Their eye for the appearance of a horse was finely honed but phrases like 'burst a blood vessel in the head' make me wonder about how much they understood the internal operations of a horse.   We understand today that bleeding from the nostrils usually indicates the extensive rupturing of blood vessels in the lungs (rather than the head)  - but I am not sure that was widely commonly understood in the 1880's. 

On a head to head basis Abercorn and The Australian Peer met 13 occasions and Abercorn finished ahead of The Australian Peer 8 times but in their last two meetings The Australian Peer bled.  Discounting those last two starts the head to head is 6/5 in Abercorn's favour.  It was one of the greatest rivalries of the Australian turf.  The only thing between these two colts was the rides.  Who ever had the sit on the other usually won the race and the jockeying for position lead to the farcical Randwick Plate in which both horses were ridden with the intent of not getting ahead of one another to the point that Wycombe was allowed to bowl along many lengths in front and  it was left far too late to commence to chase the leader.  Both riders should have been rubbed out for failing to allow their mounts to run to their merits but it was James White who instructed Abercorn's rider not to lead The Australian Peer under any circumstances ( and no odubt similar instructions were giiven to the rider of The Australian Peer ) and those instructions were followed... and James White was chairman of the AJC ...

The exemplary records of the likes of Carlyon and Cranbrook that lead us to identify 1887-88 3YO crop as a classic were enhanced by the excellent management of White and his trainer Tom Payten.  If Abercorn, Carlyon and Cranbrook had been in different hands they probably would have met the Australian Peer as often as Abercorn did but White managed his string particularly well and rather than race for third place (and there was next to no money in that) he generally kept them apart.  As a result White's pale blue and white stripes dominated the season for he won virtually every other race that The Australian Peer didn't !

The Australian Peer was bred by Edward King Cox - the man who bred Chester and Grand Flaneur - but was sold as a pup and was reared at The Grange in Queensland where the likes of Le Grand and Wheatear had been bred.  On his premature retirement The Australian Peer went to stud but his impact in Australia was rather limited however his best son Australian Star not only won the Caulfield Stakes and Eclipse Stakes he was taken to England and won the rich City and Suburban Handicap at Epsom in 1901 following in the hoof steps of The Grafter and Newhaven and giving the colonials a hat trick of wins in that event.

Finally, on a trivial note, like various scribes of the time ( and compositors as well ) I dislike the name The Australian Peer which includes 19 characters (including spaces) which is a nightmare when it comes to tabulating race results.  It's funny that 19th century compositors and 21st century keyboard tappers should have a common gripe but we do.  He messes up my tables.

Offline timw

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« 2014-Jul-06, 10:10 PM Reply #593 »
pwa and tontonan

A quick stock take of important colonials to date based on your posts and those from Mr Pring's book and the those that won more than 5 Group 1s (retrospective) (see those in CAPS) is as follows.

Note the only have complete records I am aware of are for those in CAPS (as posted by me) plus those posted by each of you.  tontonan - I think you may have posted something on either Paris or Merman which I may not have picked up in these figures.

There may be errors in these figures and unknown details are posted as '??'

The country abbreviation appearing after the name is the country(s) the horse raced in.

There are several foal crops without a representative and it may be that none from those years deserve any attention - I will leave that up to the experts to argue over.

Veno (AUS) 1849   AUS   60   36   15   5   5
Zoe (NZ) 1850   NZ, AUS   36   12   12   7   5
Mormon (AUS) 1855 (late Praxiteles)   AUS   21   16   ??   ??   2
Archer (AUS) 1856   AUS   17   12   0   3   2
Ladybird (Lady Bird) NZ (1858)   NZ   46   24   15   2   5
Yattendon (AUS) 1861    AUS   17   11   3   0   2
TIM WHIFFLER (AUS) 1862   AUS   57   23   14   7   13
Fishhook (AUS) 1863   AUS   16   10   2   1   3
THE BARB (AUS) 1863 (late 'Tait's br c')    AUS   23   16   2   1   4
FIREWORKS (AUS) 1864   AUS   23   14   3   2   4
FLORENCE (AUS) 1867   AUS   18   7   3   5   3
DAGWORTH (AUS) 1868    AUS   39   16   6   5   12
Don Juan (AUS) 1869   AUS   6   6   0   0   0
Lurline (NZ) 1869   NZ, AUS   ??   ??   ??   ??   ??
                  
Templeton (NZ) 1870   NZ   ??   ??   ??   ??   ??
Ariel (NZ) 1872   NZ   ??   ??   ??   ??   ??
Richmond (AUS) 1872 (also raced as Clifton in 1876 Melbourne Cup)   AUS   37   13   12   1   11
BRISEIS (AUS) 1873   AUS   17   6   2   2   7
ROBINSON CRUSOE (AUS) 1873 (late 'Chrysolite colt')   AUS   19   11   4   2   2
CHESTER (AUS) 1874   AUS   30   19   7   1   3
First King (AUS) 1874    AUS   15   10   3   1   1
Wellington (AUS) 1875   AUS   57   14   11   13   19
Grand Flaneur (AUS) 1877   AUS   9   9   0   0   0
Commotion (AUS) 1878   AUS   38   13   ??   ??   10
MALUA (AUS) 1879 (late 'Bagot')   AUS   47   12   10   3   22
Navigator (AUS) 1879    AUS   16   11   2   2   1
Welcome Jack (NZ) 1879   NZ, AUS   ??   ??   ??   ??   ??
                  
Martini Henri (NZ) 1880 (tontonan)      10   4   ??   ??   ??
NELSON (AUS) 1880   NZ, AUS   68   23   18   7   20
Le Grand (AUS) 1881   AUS   ??   ??   ??   ??   ??
Trenton (NZ) 1881   NZ, AUS   13   8   3   1   1
Lochiel (NZ) 1882   NZ, AUS   24   8   4   4   8
TRIDENT (AUS) 1883   AUS   22   15   2   2   3
ABERCORN (AUS) 1884   AUS   35   21   8   4   2
The Australian Peer (AUS) 1884      20   7   5   5   3
CARBINE (NZ) 1885   NZ, AUS   43   33   6   3   1
Hilda (NZ) 1885   NZ   40   15   ??   ??   ??
CYNISCA (NZ) 1886   NZ   56   20   6   5   25
MARVEL (AUS) 1886   AUS   54   17   7   7   25
Megaphone (AUS) 1887   AUS      23   ??   ??   ??
Paris (AUS) 1887   AUS, UK   46   10   ??   ??   28
Lady Zetland (NZ) 1887    NZ   ??   ??   ??   ??   ??
Strathmore (AUS) 1888 (late Halbert)   AUS   12   7   2   2   1
AUTONOMY (AUS) 1889   AUS   23   10   2   6   5
St Hippo (NZ) 1889   NZ   ??   ??   ??   ??   ??
                  
Merman (AUS) 1892   AUS, UK, FRA   49   15   4   3   27
Wallace (AUS) 1892   AUS   22   8   7   3   4
COIL (AUS) 1893   AUS   35   8   8   13   6
Newhaven (AUS) 1893   AUS, UK   35   19   6   4   6
St Paul (NZ) 1893   NZ   ??   ??   ??   ??   ??
Amberite (AUS) 1894   AUS   30   10   ??   ??   10
La Carabine (AUS) 1894   AUS   48   15   5   2   26
Multiform (NZ) 1894   NZ   19   16   ??   ??   ??
BOBADIL (AUS) 1895   AUS   23   13   6   2   2
Advance (NZ) 1896   NZ, AUS   33   19   4   4   6
WAKEFUL (AUS) 1896   AUS   44   25   12   4   3
Cruciform (NZ) 1898   NZ, AUS   32   19   9   2   2
Menschikoff (NZ) 1898   NZ   19   15   4   0   0
Abundance (AUS) 1899   AUS   36   11   10   4   11
Achilles (AUS) 1899   NZ   46   25   9   3   9


pwa - notice that I have consolidated the numbers posted by you re Abundance and I have adjusted the total to reflect the year by year record as follows

TWO YEARS: 1901-1902  Starts 6: 1-2-0-3
THREE YEARS: 1902-1903  Starts 11: 5-4-1-1
FOUR YEARS: 1903-1904  Starts 3: 1-0-0-2
FIVE YEARS: 1904-1905  Starts 16: 4-4-3-5
Total    Starts 36: 11-10-4-11

Offline pwa

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« 2014-Jul-07, 10:01 AM Reply #594 »
Thanks for that TimW. You, PP and Tontonan all publishing your researches gave me the impetus to put mine online.

Nineteenth century records are particularly difficult to assemble with precision. Peter Pring has most of the greats of the twentieth century covered but there are so many gaps in the period up to 1900. For example, Douglas Barrie mentions Megaphone's 22 starts as a 2yo for example and points out that the Turf Register only has him down for 15. Megaphone was retired in April 1894 and went off to an unsuccessful stud career in New Zealand. It would take some considerable time to put his record together.

Just to add to yours, Warwick Hobson has Le Grand as 11/1/4 but another record I have got has him at 21 – 13/1/4. Martini-Henry is 10 – 4/2/- according to Tony Arrold who also has Paris in Australia as 46 – 10/4/4/28. I'm pretty confident that  Lurline is 28 – 13/3/3 with Australian starts as 18 – 5/2/3.

Warwick Hobson has Multiform as 19/16 wins including 2 dead-heats and 3 seconds. He also has Amberite as 30 - 10/7/3.

Here is a list of others that I have assembled but many are not checked. The ones with (HOB) in brackets are from Warwick Hobson's series in Turf Monthly. Many of the others I am very confident about.

Volunteer  52 (?) – 17(?)
Musidora (1859)46 – 18/9/3
Barwon (1860) 44 (?) – 15 (?)
Lantern (1861) 8 – 3/1/1
Strop (1861) 62 - 16/ (?)
Warrior (1863) at least 55 – 21/7/7
Glencoe (1864)57 – 18/10/7
Charon (1866)11 – 6/1/1
Hamlet (1868)15 – 7/2/3/3 (?)
Goldsbrough (1870)35 – 6/10/8
Kingsborough (1871) 24 – 13/7 (?)
Robin Hood (1872)21 – 6/5/2
Newminster (1873)
Pride of the Hills (1873) 19 – 9/4/1/5 or 18 – 8/3/1
Masquerade (1874) ? – only 3 wins on city tracks – 2 Epsoms, 1 Metropolitan
Petrea (1876)16 – 7/5/2 (HOB)
Progress (1877) 25 (?) – 12/7/5
Wheatear (1878) 13(?) – 8/3/
Darebin (1878)20 – 8/4/2
Nordenfeldt (1882)(9 - pretty certain) – 6/1/2
Mentor (1884)15 – 7/3/2/3
Carlyon (1884) 17 - 9/-/3/5 (HOB)
Cranbrook (1884) 11 – 5/1/1 (HOB)
Melos (1885)37 – 5/9/12
Highborn (1885) at least 9/7/3 and maybe 2 others plus India
Dreadnought (1886)15 – 8/5/2 (HOB)
Titan (1887) 46 - 13/5/3/25
Autonomy (1889)23 – 10/2/6 (HOB)
Camoola (1889)45 – 14/3/7/21
Battalion (1889)47 – 18/14/2 (HOB)
Patron (1890)43 – 9/11/5
Auraria (1892) 24 – 10**/3/1 (HOB)
Aurum (1894)17 – 12/2/2 (HOB)
Amberite (1894)30 – 10/7/3 (HOB)
Maltster (1897)16 – 8/3/3

I've been working on a few pre-1860 records as well. Alice Hawthorn(e) looks like 67 - 37/17/4. Jack Pollard has her as 72 - 53 wins but it doesn't seem as though she is anywhere near 53. I've also been unable to find any mention of the missing couple in the 38 starts he has for Commotion.
« Last Edit: 2014-Jul-07, 09:40 PM by pwa »

Offline pwa

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« 2014-Jul-07, 11:31 AM Reply #595 »
Tontonan, that "bursting a blood vessel" certainly implies bleeding from the nostrils (or perhaps the mouth). It really couldn't be anything else! My very limited understanding of nineteenth century medical knowledge is that they sometimes analogised a horse bleeding with a human with tuberculosis or blamed it on worms (which can be a cause). Some also believed that a bit of blood-letting wasn't a bad thing in the same way it used to be considered good for humans. Still, it is strange that they didn't talk about bleeding from the nostrils directly.

Carlyon was given a bigger weight than The Australian Peer in the Sydney Cup and amongst others, won the Caulfield Guineas, the Loch Plate, the Australian Cup, the Royal Park Stakes and the Autumn Stakes as a 3yo; Cranbrook got a Newmarket and both were good horses very astutely managed as you point out.

For the season, Abercorn won £4179, The Australian Peer £3279, Carlyon, £3067, Cranbrook, £2595.

Mentor, who, potentially, could have been as good as any horse foaled in 1884 on the basis of his 1888 spring campaign went wrong in the summer of 1889. It was a double blow for his owner, Donald Wallace, who had lost his 29 year-old wife to blood poisoning a few weeks before. Carbine, however, soon started to win everything in sight to help soften the blow.

Offline tontonan

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« 2014-Jul-07, 10:12 PM Reply #596 »
Abercorn, Carlyon and Cranbrook were all by Chester and bred and raced by James White. 

All three had Derby pedigrees but White reserved Abercorn for the Derbys and St Legers and divided the remaining spoils between Carlyon and Cranbrook.  It was a superb piece of management and only The Australian Peer stood between Whites string and total domination.  I have no doubt that had Carlyon and Cranbrook belonged to other men they would have been classic contenders.  White made no secret that Abercorn was the best horse he'd ever raced (quite a wrap given that he had raced Chester, Martini Henri and others) and sensibly kept the others to races they could win.  Carlyon is probably the best performed colt that never contested a Derby.

White also bred Cranbrook's full brother Kirkham to English time and sent him to England to run in the Epsom Derby. He finished seventh.


Offline tontonan

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« 2014-Jul-07, 10:59 PM Reply #597 »
timw,

Merman's record was posted at

http://www.racehorsetalk.com.au/racing-talk/race-records-of-champion-racehorses/195/

and it accords with 49=15/4/3.

I haven't posted Paris' record.

*** Don Juan's record is actually 7sts 6 wins 0 seconds 0 thirds - he started once in a selling race in Adelaide as a juvenile.  I have edited his record on these pages.

Miller's Guide has records for most of the Melbourne Cup winners from the colonial period.  Some are showing error pages at present and some records are incomplete but there are some important records there especially Auraria, Clean Sweep, Nimblefoot, Merriwee, Patron, The Assyrian, The Grafter, etc.

Collectively this is is quite an archive..

I am still uploading records to the Blogger with pictures and pedigrees where possible. 

http://horseforallseasons.blogspot.com.au/

and will continue to do so.  It's still a work in progress.

Offline pwa

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« 2014-Jul-09, 09:51 PM Reply #598 »
Kingsborough (Kingston-Sappho)

A very good horse owned by the NSW Governor, Sir Hercules Robinson. After a mid-field finish in his first race, Kingsborough was only out of a place once in his remaining 23 starts. A Champagne Stakes, a Sires’ Produce, an AJC Derby, a Craven Plate and a Melbourne (later Mackinnon) Stakes were the best of his 13 wins.

24 – 13/7*/2/2

1873-1874 2yo

5 starts – 2/2/-/1

Unpl – 1/11/1873 Flemington Maribyrnong Plate, 5 furlongs, (8st 10lb), 1st Stockridge (8st 10lb), 1min 9sec
2nd – 7/11/1873 Flemington Flying Stakes,¾ mile, (5st 2lb), 1st Atalanta (7st 9lb), 1min 19sec, 1½ lengths
1st – 6/4/1874 Randwick Champagne Stakes, 5 furlongs, (8st 10lb), 2nd Nea, (8st 8lb), 1min 10sec, 3-4 lengths
1st – 8/4/1874 Randwick Sires’ Produce Stakes, 7 furlongs, (9st 3lb), 2nd The Novice (8st 8lb), 1min 33⅕sec, 4 lengths
2nd – 11/4/1874 Randwick Nursery Hcp, 6 furlongs, (9st 5lb), 1st A.T. (7st 5lb), ½ length, 1min 19sec

1874-1875 3yo

8 starts – 7/-/1/-

1st – 15/8/1874 Hawkesbury Guineas, 1 mile, (8st 5lb), 2nd Llama, (8st), 1min 48⅗sec, length
1st – 17/8/1874 Hawkesbury RC Mares’ Produce Stakes, 1 ¼ mile, (8st 11lb), 2nd Llama, (8st 1½lb), 2min 18⅗sec, ½length
1st – 5/9/1874 Randwick AJC Derby, 1½ miles, (8st 10lb), 2nd Melbourne (8st 10lb), 2min 50sec, length
1st – 11/9/1874 Randwick AJC Mares’ Produce Stakes, 1¼ miles, (9st 9lb), 2nd The Novice (8st 5lb), 2min 22½sec, 2 lengths
1st – 29/3/1875 Randwick St Leger, 1¾ miles, (8st 10lb), 2nd Melbourne (8st 10lb), 3min 18⅖sec, neck
3rd – 2/4/1875 Randwick All-Aged Stakes, 1 mile, (8st), 1st Lurline, (9st 2lb), 2nd Llama (7st 12lb), 1min 48sec, 1½ lengths, (Kingsborough bolted and ran 2 ½ miles “at a rattling pace” before being pulled up and getting back in the starting line)
1st – 3/4/1875 Randwick Rous Hcp, 1 mile 3 furlongs, (9st 8lb), 2nd Llama (8st 2lb), 2min 30⅕sec, nose
1st – 4/5/1875 Maitland Northern Jockey Club Cup (8st 6lb), 2 miles, 2nd The Novice (5st 10lb), 3min 48sec, 2 lengths

1875-1876 4yo

11 starts, 4/5*/1/1

1st – 4/9/1875 Randwick Spring Stakes, 1½ miles, (8st 7lb), 2nd Goldsbrough (9st 3lb), 2min 42sec, 1½ lengths
2nd – 7/9/1875 Randwick Metropolitan, 2 miles, (8st 10lb), 1st Goldsbrough 9st 2lb), 3rd Kingfisher (6st 8lb), 3min 33⅕sec, ¾ length, nose, “fastest 2 miles ever run in Australia”
1st – 9/9/1875 Randwick Craven Plate, 1¼ miles, (8st 7lb), 2nd Reprieve (9st 5lb), 2min 13sec, 2 lengths
2nd – 11/9/1875 Randwick Plate, 3 miles, (8st 6lb), 1st Richmond (6st 3lb), 3rd Lurline (9st 6lb), 5min 43sec
1st – 6/11/1875 Flemington Melbourne Stakes, 1¼ miles, (9st), 2nd Goldsbrough (9st 7lb), 3rd Dagworth (9st 8lb), 2min 18sec, length, 12 lengths
8th – 9/11/1875 Flemington Melbourne Cup, 2 miles, (8st 11lb), 1st Wollomai (7st 8lb), 2nd Richmond (6st 3lb), 3rd Goldsbrough (9st 9lb), 3min 38sec, 2 lengths, 3 lengths
2nd – 11/11/1875 Flemington Flying Stakes, ¾mile, (9st), 1st the Sour Grapes colt (Burgundy), (7st 9lb), 1min 16sec, ½ length
1st – 17/4/1876 Randwick Cumberland Stakes, 1½ miles, (8st 12lb), 2nd Southern Cross (8st 10lb), 3rd Melbourne, 2min 45⅖sec, 2 lengths
=2nd – 20/4/1876 Randwick Sydney Cup, 2 miles, (9st 2lb), 1st A.T. (6st 4lb), =2nd Neredah (6st 6lb), 3min 37½sec, length
2nd – 21/4/ 1876 Randwick All-Aged Stakes, 1 mile, (8st 12lb), 1st Briseis (5st 11lb), 1min 43⅕sec, 2 lengths
3rd – 22/4/1876 Randwick AJC Plate, 3 miles, (9st 5lb), 1st Robin Hood (7st 13lb), 2nd Richmond (7st 13lb), 5min 50sec, head, length
« Last Edit: 2014-Jul-10, 10:34 AM by pwa »

Offline pwa

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« 2014-Jul-11, 10:05 AM Reply #599 »
Progress (1877) (Angler-Coquette)

28 starts – 12/7/5/4

Progress was desperately unlucky to run up against Grand Flaneur, otherwise he would have been considered one of the greats. Grand Flaneur certainly had his measure but Progress's Sydney 3yo autumn showcased his ability. The two horses battled out the finish of the Champion Stakes 20 lengths ahead of other very good horses. His 19 starts as a 3yo seemed to flatten Progress and after a couple of nice wins as a 4yo he was retired. 

1879-1880 2yo

4 starts 1/-/-/3

4th – 6/11/1879 Flemington Flying Hcp, ¾ mile, (6st 6lb), 1st Remembrance, (6st 1lb), 1min 17sec, head, 2 lengths
Unpl – 8/11/1879 Flemington Stakes, 5 furlongs, (8st), 1st Lady Emma (7st 10lb), 1min 8sec
4th – 4/3/1880 Flemington Sires Produce Stakes, ¾ mile, (8st 10lb), 1st Grand Prix (8st 10lb), 1min 20sec, ½length
1st – 31/7/1880 Geelong Winter Hcp, 1½ miles, (5st 11lb), 2nd Dictator (6st 7lb), 2min 48sec, length

1880-1881 3yo

19 starts 9/7/3/-

3rd – 14/8/1880 Caulfield VATC Flat Race, 1 mile, (7st 4lb), 1st Monarque (8st 8lb), length, close third
2nd – 30/10/1880 Flemington VRC Derby, 1½ miles, (8st 10lb), 1st Grand Flaneur, (8st 10lb), 2min 44sec, length, 15 lengths
2nd – 2/11/1880 Flemington Melbourne Cup, 2 miles, (5st 7lb), 1st Grand Flaneur (6st 10lb), 3min 34¾sec, ½ length-length, ½ length
1st – 4/11/1880 Flemington Royal Park Stakes, 2 miles, (7st 6lb), 2nd Lothair, (7st 6lb), 3rd Wellington, (9st 5lb), 3min 41sec, length
2nd – 6/11/1880 Flemington Mares’ Produce, 1¼ miles, (8st 10lb), 1st Grand Flaneur, (8st 10lb + 5lb penalty), 2min 10¾sec
1st – 6/11/1880 Flemington Canterbury Plate, 2¼ miles, (7st 6lb), 2nd Sweetmeat (9st 5lb), 3rd Wellington (9st 5lb), 4min 4sec, 2 lengths
2nd – 1/1/1881 Flemington Champion Stakes, 3 miles, (7st 8lb), 1st Grand Flaneur, (7st 8lb), 3rd Sweetmeat (9st 6lb), 4th Wellington, (9st 6lb), 5min 48sec, 2 lengths, 25 lengths
1st – 28/1/1881 Geelong Gold Cup, 2 miles, (7st 11lb), 2nd Wellington (9st 2lb), 3min 36⅖sec, 4 lengths, 2 lengths
1st – 29/1/1881 Geelong Mares’ Produce Stakes, 1½ miles, (8st 10lb), 2nd Western Princess (8st 7lb), 2min 45 sec, “won as he liked”
2nd – 29/1/1881 Geelong Handicap, 1½ miles, (8st 1lb incl. 7lb penalty), 1st Wellington (9st 7lb), 2min 41sec, ¾ length, 1½ lengths
2nd – 26/2/1881 Flemington VRC St Leger Stakes, 1¾ miles and 132 yards, (8st 10lb), 1st Grand Flaneur, (8st 10lb), 3min 16½sec, “won easily”
3rd – 3/3/1881 Flemington Australian Cup, 2¼ miles, (8st 6lb), 1st First Water, (7st 6lb), 2nd Sweetmeat (9st 2lb), 4min, 5 lengths, close third
3rd – 5/3/1881 Flemington Town Plate, 2 miles, 1st Grand Flaneur, (8st 1lb), 2nd Sweetmeat (9st 7lb), 3min 45sec, 2 lengths, neck
1st – 18/4/1881 Randwick Australian St Leger, 1¾ miles, (8st 10lb), 2nd Orient, (8st 10lb), 3min 15½ sec, 20 lengths, 20 lengths
1st – 20/4/1881 AJC Sydney Cup, 2 miles, (8st 2lb), 2nd Strathearn (7st 2lb), 3min 36⅘sec (heavy track), 2 lengths
1st – 22/4/1881 Randwick AJC Cumberland Stakes, 2 miles, (8st 2lb), 2nd Orient, (8st 2lb), 3min 40sec, “won with ease”
1st – 23/4/1881 Randwick AJC Plate, 3 miles, (8st), 2nd Wellington, (9st 5lb), 5min 45 sec, 6-8 lengths
1st – 24/5/1881 Adelaide St Leger, 14 furlongs and 132 yards, (9st 2lb), 2nd Trevallyn (8st 10lb), 3min 22sec, 15 lengths
2nd – 26/5/1881 Adelaide Queen’s Birthday Cup, 1¾ miles, (9st), 1st Mata (9st 2lb), 3min 9½sec, 2 lengths

1881-1882 4yo

5 starts 2/-/2/1

1st – 4/3/1882 Flemington Port Phillip Stakes, 2½ miles, (9st), 2nd Bathurst (9st), 3rd Wellington, (9st 5lb), 4min 58sec, ½ length
3rd – 11/3/1882 Flemington Town Plate, 2 miles, (9st 7lb), 1st Commotion (8st 7lb), 2nd Wellington (10st), 3min 34 sec, 4 lengths,
1st – 10/4/1882 AJC Autumn Stakes, 1½ miles, 2nd Lord Burghley, 2min 48¾sec, 1½ lengths
Unpl – 12/4/1882 Randwick Sydney Cup, 2 miles, (9st 8lb), 1st Cunnamulla (6st), 3min 34sec, 2 lengths
3rd – 14/4/1882 Randwick Cumberland Stakes, 2 miles, (9st), =1st Lord Burghley (9st 4lb), The Drummer (8st 4lb), 3min 45sec, ½ length


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