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Offline tontonan

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« 2014-Sep-29, 04:17 PM Reply #675 »
Our collection is largely defined by Timw's criteria of 5 Group 1 wins as defined by the 1979 list of events.  Lord Cardigan misses out on that score but he is one of several horses that is worthy of the spotlight.  And there are many others too.  This thread is far from finished.

I was just curious as to why 8 starts between September and November should be of interest.  That's a big campaign way back when as much as it is today.  

There were several others to those I have mentioned but probably not as many as she might expect.  I'd suggest she look for Sydney based horses that won longer races at the Randwick carnival that carried on to Melbourne, particularly after 1890 (the railway was operating from the mid 1880's providing quicker and less perilous transit between the capitals).

Another horse that springs to mind is Rupert Clarke's journeyman Paul Pry who was probably the first horse win feature races in four states/colonies (Vic, NSW, SA and WA).  He was particularly prolific in the Spring of 1900 when he won several WFA races in Sydney and came back to Melbourne to win the Williamstown Cup.  An iron horse, he very likely had 8 starts within the time frame.

There were a number of horses that had 8 starts that I didn't include because their campaigns began in August in Sydney and therefore they didn't squeeze into the Sept/Nov window.  The Sydney carnival was earlier in September than it is these days and horses were up and running in August.

Wish her all the best in her researches.   :thumbsup:

Offline timw

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« 2014-Sep-29, 09:31 PM Reply #676 »
Re Redcraze (NZ) 1950

I have updated his 4yo record which was originally posted at page 23 of this thread making several dozen changes.  Millers' Guide omits his first 4YO start at Marton in the MartonJC Farewell Hack Hcp which Pring in his 1977 book records at being run by the Thames club (see race no 174 of the 1954-55 NZTR).  In his second start as a 4YO the field was 25 not 18 as reported as elsewhere.  There are no changes to his overall win and place record which remains as 85-32-11-9 with 33 unplaced.

 

Offline reng

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« 2014-Sep-30, 08:12 AM Reply #677 »
I'm writing an article for the next issue of Breeding & Racing based on the Brownlow system - best and toughest (not best and fairest).  So far I have 44 occasions when a horse meets the criteria; here are the ones with the most starts:
Horse   Season   runs   wins   Stakes Wins (inc Gr1 wins)   Gr1 Wins
Redcraze   1955/56   14   1   1   1
High Caste   1940/41   13   6   4   2
Rising Fast   1955/56   11   4   4   2
Rising Fast   1954/55   10   8   8   5
Tranquil Star   1945/46   10   2   2   1
Beau Vite   1941/42   10   6   5   2
Phar Lap   1930/31   10   10   9   2

For the sake of the article, I want to get as many into the table as possible, and then will attribute points based on Gr1 wins, wins, runs using the Brownlow system.  Then will write up the five 'best and toughest'.  Arion has provided all the ones after 1940, but prior to that they only have the group racing places, not all starts, so I used this thread to piece together any earlier ones. 
Being a data person, I don't like the idea that my list is not comprehensive (even if a horse doesn't make the top 5 for the article).  But old data is pretty hard to come by from a comparative point of view.  One of my clients has all the old race record books, so once I have some names and seasons, I can go into his office and look them up to get the full record.  The problem is knowing where to start; and it's too time consuming to look at every Gr1 winner (as fascinating as that would be).
Also, how do you want me to reference this thread's data in the article?

Offline tontonan

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« 2014-Sep-30, 10:42 AM Reply #678 »
Reng,

It is a very interesting article you are working on.  I appreciate that you will have a deadline to meet so now is not the time to reinvent the wheel.

The others I would suggest that aren't on these pages are -

SWEET NELL who has 9 starts in the Spring of 1903/04 (winning the Caulfield Guineas, Caulfield Cup and VRC Oaks)
CARLITA who had 9 starts in the Spring of 1914/15 (winning the VRC Derby and VRC Oaks)
ROGILLA who had 9starts in the Spring of 1932-3 (Caulfield Cup) but 1 start in August
ROGILLA who had 11starts in the Spring of 1933-4 (Cox Plate & Melbourne Sks) but 2 starts in August
ROYAL CHIEF who had 9 starts in the Spring of 1938-39 (Metropolitan) but the Warwick Sks may have been in August
BEAULIVRE who had 9 starts in the Spring 1940-41 (Caulfield Cup) but the Warwick Sks may have been in August

Actually, Rogilla is listed on page 12 of this thread but I noticed he wasn't on your table.  You may already have them all.  

For the reasons I suggested earlier you wont find many in the 19th century.  Dagworth would run where ever possible but his Springs only ever amounted to 8 starts and he had to race at Hawkesbury in August to achieve that.  Glencoe in 1868 started at both the AJC and VRC meetings in the Spring and started 5 times in 7 days at Flemington (and won them all over a combined distance of 74 furlongs including the Melbourne Cup) and still only managed 7 starts for the campaign.

The one's I referenced earlier were from a quick survey of the records on the Miller's Guide site.
The one's above are from Pring's Analysis of Champion Racehorses.  Let me know if you need further details on any of those.

The September cut off is a bit limiting.  The horses most likely to have had eight or more starts in the Spring would most likely have had to kick off their campaigns in August.  As I mentioned earlier the metropolitan calendar didn't extend to August until the 1880's.

Another factor in colonial times was that horses didn't have the same array of meetings as they have today and following the VRC Spring meeting they were often kept in work for the VRC Summer meeting which included the VRC Champion Stakes.  The Champion Stakes was certainly the top of the tree as far as WFA racing was concerned but was extinct by 1917 and therefore never recognized as 'Group 1'.



Edit : BTW, regarding referencing this thread, as far as I am concerned anyhow, its a public forum in the public domain. 
« Last Edit: 2014-Sep-30, 10:46 AM by tontonan »

Offline timw

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« 2014-Sep-30, 09:02 PM Reply #679 »
Reng

When you say horse season starts I assume you are referring to spring campaigns in Syd and Melb only and excluding the 3YO year where many starts were restricted to 3YO.  Assuming your criteria is a minimum of 8 spring starts then consider -

David (AUS) 1917 - reported to have had 124 starts and while I not reviewed his whole career his spring campaigns possibly were 4YO 8 starts, 5YO 10 starts, 6YO 11 starts and 7YO 11 starts.  Can't say whether he won any 'principal races'.

Lady Medallist (AUS) 1906 had 10 starts as a 5YO - 2 wins, inc. Caulfield Cup.

Carlita  (NZ) 1911 had 8 starts as a 4YO.

Sasanof (NZ) 1913 had 9 starts as a 4YO but raced to Dec 26 of that year for 2 minor wins - I have not checked whether any of the wins were classed as 'principal races'.

Some other possibilities include -
Veilmond (NZ)  who won 19 races - total starts unknown
Silver Ring (NZ) NZ 1929 who came to Australia in the spring of 1936 and had 8 starts.
and more than that as a 6YO, 7YO and 9YO.
Greenline (AUS) 1924 had 72 starts for 13 wins with one major the Newmarket Hcp.
 
Give me another 30 years and I might be able to confirm or add to the list.


 

Offline timw

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« 2014-Oct-01, 06:25 AM Reply #680 »
DARYL'S JOY (NZ) 1966                                       
                           
30 starts, 16 wins (5 x Group 1), 9 seconds and 4 thirds.  Win % 53.5, Place % 96.7.                                  
According to Equibase his USA earnings were  USD 125,675 in the 1970 calendar year and USD 67,100 in the 1971 calendar year for a total in the USA of USD 192,775. The RBA USD / AUD exchange rate was unchanged at USD 1.12 = AUD 1.00 for the entire period he raced in the USA so his AUD equivalent earnings were AUD 172,120.                                        
The NZD / AUD RBA exchange rate was unchanged during the period Daryl's Joy raced in NZ (NZD 0.9980 = AUD 1.00).                                 I haveI have aligned his USA starts in accordance with the Australian racing year.                           
                                       
In summary his record is as follows:                                       
In New Zealand 14 starts, 7 wins (2 x Group 1), 5 seconds, 2 thirds for stakewinnings of NZD 21,810 or AUD 21,853.71.                                        
In Australia 5 starts, 3 wins (2 x Group 1), 1 second, 1 third for stakewinnings of AUD 73,730                                       
In USA 11 starts, 6 wins (1 x Grade 1), 3 seconds, 1 third for stakewinnings of USD 192,775 or AUD 172,120.                                         
Honours - 1985-1995 Daryl's Joy Hcp run at Saratoga USA                                       
USA record incomplete - details of his first start in USA unknown and I assume it was the only time he finished outside the first three in his career.                                       
Despite not being able to confirm his US winnings at his first and third starts in the USA it is beyond doubt that on 20 Feb 1971 he passed Sailor's Guide's record Australasian stakewinnings of AUD 236,182 when won San Luis Obispo Hcp at Santa Anita Park CA USA and I estimate his cumulative earnings after that win would have been in the vicinity of AUD 264,244.  At his next and last start where he finished third he added USD 2,800 or AUD 2,500 to that total.                                       
The American Racing Manual's experimental free handicap for rated him the equal fourth best 3YO&Up turf horse on 125 lbs for the 1970 calendar (and US racing) year behind  Fort Marcy on 132 lbs, Fiddle Isle on 131 lbs and Vent du Nord on ? lbs  and equal with Pinjarra on 125 lbs.                                         
His record suggests he is clearly one of the better horses ever to race in Australasia.  He managed to beat Vain once in two meetings over 1600m running second in the other noting that he then went on to win the Cox Plate and Victoria Derby at his next two starts before heading to the USA. He beat Cougar II twice in the USA (20 wins and 24 placings from 50 starts) and Cougar II was rated by author Mary Simon as one of the top 22 USA race horses of the 1970s.                                        
Odds quoted in the American Racing Manual are for $1.00 win but exclude the amount $1.00 bet.  Where the US odds appear below I have included $1.00 to reflect the Australian practice.                                        
Any further information about his USA starts would be appreciated.                                       
                                       
TWO YEARS:  1968-1969  Starts 14: 7-5-2-0                                       
                                       
2nd-9   25/09/1968.   Hd x 1L   Hastings, NI, NZ   HBJC Hastings Stakes   4f.   804m.   8.5   53kg   0.48.8.   Easy   Crown Law 8.5 1st   NZD 200   
2nd-18   12/10/1968.   Sht nk x 5L   Opaki, Masterton, NI, NZ   MastRC Nursery Hcp   4f.   804m.   8.7.   54kg   0.48.2.   Easy, Fav.   Kay Royal 8.6 1st   NZD 100   
3rd-13   19/10/1968.   2.25L x hd   Trentham, Wellington, NI, NZ   WeRC Wellesley Stakes   5f.   1005m.   8.7.   54kg   0.57.0 (ENZR)   Slightly easy   Kay Royal 8.7 1st   NZD 400   
2nd-8   9/11/1968.    hd x 2.5L   Riccarton, Christchurch, SI, NZ   CJC Welcome Stakes   5f.   1005m.   8.5.   53kg   1.00.2.   Firm, 2nd Fav.   Far Time 8.5 1st   NZD 600   
1st-10   13/11/1968.   Nk x 7L   Riccarton, Christchurch, SI, NZ   CJC Irwell Hcp   5f.   1005m.   8.12.   56kg   0.58.6.   Fast, Fav.   Far Time 9.3 2nd   NZD 920   
1st-11   16/11/1968.   3L x 1L   Riccarton, Christchurch, SI, NZ   CJC Pioneer Hcp   5f.   1005m.   9.7.   60kg   1.00.2.   Soft, Fav.   Tony Kaye 8.11 2nd   NZD 990   
2nd-8   11/12/1968.   0.75L x 3.5L   Wanganui, NI, NZ   WangJC Celebrity Stakes   5.5f.   1106m.   8.11.   56kg   1.06.0.   Fast, 3rd Fav.   Crown Law 8.8 5th Fav. 1st   NZD 300   
                                       
2nd-8   18/01/1969.   1L x 2L   Trentham, Wellington, NI, NZ   WeRC Wellington Stakes   6f.   1207m.   cd 7.7.   47.5kg   1.09.75.   Fast, 4th Fav.   Mayo Gold 8.11 Fav. 1st   NZD 800   
1st-7   27/01/1969.   2.5L x 1.25L   Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   AuRC Eclipse Stakes   Abt. 6f.   Abt 1200m.   8.3   52kg   1.11.2 (ERR)   Firm, 2nd Fav.   Mighty Concorde 8.0 3rd Fav. 2nd   NZD 2,600   
3rd-9   8/03/1969.   1.5L x hd   Trentham, Wellington, NI, NZ   WeRC North Island Challenge Stakes   7f.   1408m.   cd 7.2.   45.5kg   1.23.5.   Firm   Wood Court Inn 6.9 5th Fav. 1st   NZD 400   
1st-9   15/03/1969.   0.75L x 3L   Trentham, Wellington, NI, NZ   WeRC Wakefield Challenge Stakes   7f.   1408m.   9.1.   57.5kg   1.23.25.   Fast, 4th Fav.   Agreement 8.0 Fav. 2nd   NZD 3,900   
1st-10   29/03/1969.   2.75L x hd   Awapuni, Palmerston North, NI, NZ   MwtuRC 61st Manawatu Sires Produce Stakes (G1)   7f.   1408m.   8.12.   56kg   1.24.8 (ERR)   Fast, Fav.   Astrella 7.11 2nd   NZD 2,600   
1st-7   5/04/1969.   2.5L x 0.5L   Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   AuRC Great Northern Champagne Stakes   6f.   1207m.   8.10.   55.5kg   1.11.2 (ERR)   Good, Fav.   Princess Tina 8.8 2nd   NZD 2,600   
1st-11   12/04/1969.   1.25L x 2.5L   Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   AuRC Ellerslie Championship Stakes (G1)   7f.   1408m.   8.12.   56kg   1.24.0.   Fast, Fav.   Mighty Concorde 8.0 4th Fav. 2nd   NZD 5,400   
                                       
                                       
THREE YEARS:  1969-1970  Starts 9: 4-3-1-1                                       
                                       
3rd-10   13/09/1969.   1.25L x 4L   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC Ascot Vale Stakes   6f.   1207m.   8.12.   56kg   1.12.6.   Slow, 33/1.   Vain 9.5 2/9F 1st   AUD 480   
1st-11   27/09/1969.   0.75L x 5L   Moonee Valley, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   MVRC Moonee Valley Stakes   8f.   1609m.   8.9.   55kg   1.40.5.   Slow, 10/1.   Vain 8.9 4/9F 2nd   AUD 14,200   
2nd-9   11/10/1969.   3L x 6L   Caulfield, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VATC Caulfield Guineas   8f.   1609m.   8.10.   55.5kg   1.36.2 (RR)   Fast, 6/4   Vain 8.10 9/10F 1st   AUD 3,150   
1st-10   25/10/1969.   2.5L x 2L   Moonee Valley, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   MVRC W.S. Cox Plate (G1)   10f.   2011m.   7.11.   49.5kg   2.05.4.   Fast, 7/2.   Ben Lomond 9.4 7/4F 2nd   AUD 21,600   
1st-13   1/11/1969.   3L x 4L   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC Victoria Derby (G1)   12f.   2414m.   8.10.   55.5kg   2.33.3.   Slow, 5/4F   Top Flat 8.10 7/2 2nd   AUD 34,300   
                                       
Unpl-   circa 6/04/1970.   Margin ?   Hollywood Park ?   Racename ?   XXf. (turf?)   XXXXm.   XXXlbs   XXkg   Time ?   Odds ?   Horse name 1st ?   USD 0.00   
2nd-   16/04/1970.   3L x ?   Hollywood Park, Los Angeles, CA, USA   Coronado Stakes   8.5f. (turf)   1709m.   122 lbs   55.5kg   1.41.0.   Odds ?   Pinjarra 116 1st   USD 3,800   
1st-   circa 5/05/1970.   Margin ?   Hollywood Park, Los Angeles, CA, USA   Senorita race ?   8f. (turf)   1609m.   XXXlbs   XXkg   1.35.0.   Odds ?   Horse name 2nd ?   USD 6,625#   
2nd-10   12/05/1970.   Nse x ?   Hollywood Park, Los Angeles, CA, USA   Cortez Hcp.    11f (turf)   2212m.   122 lbs   55.5kg   2.15.0.   Fast, 6/5F   Vagabundo (CHI) 120 1st   USD 3,800   
                                       
FOUR YEARS:  1970-1971  Starts 7: 5-1-1-0                                       
                                        
1st-   10/08/1970.   Margin ?   Del Mar, near San Diego, CA, USA   Junior Leagues Purse   8.5f. (turf?)   1709m.   XXXlbs   XXkg   1.42.4 (0.2 outside CR)   3/5F.   Dizzy Babe 2nd   USD 4,400   
1st-6   7/09/1970. Hd x nse Del Mar, near San Diego, CA, USA   Del Mar Hcp (currently G2)   11f. (turf)   2212m.   123lbs 56kg    2.15.4 (CR)   $3.90.   Cougar II (CH) 114 $6.10 2nd Contrados 110 3rd USD 33,450   
2nd-   10/10/1970.   Margin ?   Santa Anita Park, Arcadia, near LA, CA, USA   Carleton F Burke Invitational Hcp   10f (turf)   2011m.   123lbs   56kg   1.58.8.   Odds ?   Fiddle Isle 129 $10.40 1st   USD 10,000   
1st-6   31/10/1970.   Nk x 4L   Santa Anita Park, Arcadia, near LA, CA, USA   Oak Tree Invitational Stakes (G1) (currently John Henry Turf Championship Stakes)   12f. (turf)   2414m.   126lbs   57kg   2.26.2.   Firm, $8.30.   Fiddle Isle 126 $1.30 2nd Cougar II (CHI) 126 $1.30 3rd    USD 63,600   
                                       
1st-   4/02/1971.   Margin ?   Santa Anita Park, Arcadia, near LA, CA, USA   Arcadia Hcp (later Frank E. Kilroe Mile Hcp (currently G1))    10f. (turf)   2011m.   126lbs   57kg   1.59.6.   Odds ?   Magic Hope II 115 2nd   USD 26,000   
1st-7   20/02/1971.   0.5L x nse    Santa Anita Park, Arcadia, near LA, CA, USA   San Luis Obispo Hcp (currently G2)   12f. (turf)   2414m.   128lbs   58kg    2.29.20.   Yielding, 11/10F.   Cougar II (CHI) 127 4/1 2nd   Onandaga 110 3rd USD 38,300   
3rd-*   23/04/1971.   Margin ?   Hollywood Park, Los Angeles, CA, USA   Crenshaw Stakes   8.5f. (turf)   1709m.   126lbs   57kg   1.41.2.   Odds ?   Pinjara 118 1st   USD 2,800   
« Last Edit: 2018-Jan-09, 07:36 PM by timw »

Offline timw

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« 2014-Oct-02, 06:01 AM Reply #681 »
VAIN (AUS) 1966            
14 starts, 12 wins (6 x Group 1), 2 seconds and 0 thirds.  Win % 85.7, Place % 100.0.             
Beaten 0.75L on the two occasions he ran second and one of those was to Daryl's Joy (NZ) 1966.            
            
Full record published by PoisonPen7 on this thread            
            
Group 1 wins:            
1st-10   8/03/1969.   4L x 0.5L   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC Sires' Produce Stakes
1st-13   22/03/1969.   4L x 1.5L   Rosehill, Sydney, NSW, AUS   STC Golden Slipper Stakes
1st-11   12/04/1969.   10L x lg hd   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Champagne Stakes
1st-9   11/10/1969.   3L x 6L   Caulfield, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VATC Caulfield Guineas
1st-9   1/11/1969.   12L x 1L   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC Craven 'A' Stakes
1st-16   8/11/1969.   1.25L x 2L   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC George Adams Hcp

Offline timw

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« 2014-Oct-02, 06:02 AM Reply #682 »
BAGUETTE (AUS) 1967            
31 starts, 15 wins (7 x Group 1), 7 seconds and 4 thirds.  Win % 48.4, Place % 83.9.             
            
Full record published by PoisonPen7 on this thread            
            
Group 1 wins:            
1st-15   21/03/1970.   2L x 0.5L   Rosehill, Sydney, NSW, AUS   STC Golden Slipper Stakes (G1)
1st-8   28/03/1970.   1.25L x 1.25L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Sires' Produce Stakes (G1)
1st-8   4/04/1970.   4L x hd   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Champagne Stakes (G1)
1st-15   6/03/1971.   1L x nk   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC Newmarket Hcp (G1)
1st-10   27/03/1971.   1L x 0.75L   Rosehill, Sydney, NSW, AUS   STC Railway Quality Hcp (G1) (later George Ryder Stakes)
1st-17   3/07/1971.   1.25L x hd   Doomben, Brisbane, QLD, AUS   BATC Doomben 10,000 (G1)
1st-5   6/10/1971.    nk x 1L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC George Main Stakes (G1)

Offline timw

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« 2014-Oct-02, 06:03 AM Reply #683 »
GUNSYND (AUS) 1967            
54 starts, 29 wins (9 x Group 1), 7 seconds and 8 thirds.  Win % 53.7, Place % 81.5.             
Became Australasia's greatest stakwinner when he passed Daryl's Joy stakewiings of AUD 267,704 when he won the 1973 Rawson Stakes.            
Retired with Australasian record stakewinnings of AUD 280,455.  His earnings record was passed by Battle Heights (NZ) 1967 when that horse won the 1976 AJC Craven Plate.            
            
Full record published by PoisonPen7 on this thread.            
            
Group 1 wins:            
            
1st-8   13/03/1971.    nk x 1.75L   Rosehill, Sydney, NSW, AUS   STC Rawson Stakes
1st-21   2/10/1971.   3L x sht nk   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Epsom Hcp
1st-10   9/10/1971.   1.5L x 1.25L   Caulfield, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VATC Toorak Hcp
1st-13   6/11/1971.   5L x 1L   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC George Adams Hcp
1st-13   4/03/1972.   2.5L x sht hd   Caulfield, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VATC Futurity Stakes
1st-20   1/04/1972.   0.75L x hd   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Doncaster Hcp
1st-8   14/10/1972.   2L x nk   Caulfield, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VATC Caulfield Stakes
1st-14   28/10/1972.   0.75L x 1L   Moonee Valley, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   MVRC W.S. Cox Plate
1st-8   31/03/1973.   3.25L x 0.75L   Rosehill, Sydney, NSW, AUS   STC Rawson Stakes

Offline timw

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« 2014-Oct-02, 06:05 AM Reply #684 »
BATTLE HEIGHTS (NZ) 1967                                          
115 starts, 23 wins (5 x Group 1), 14 seconds and 15 thirds.  Win % 20.0, Place % 45.0.                                           
The following New Zealand records are incomplete - 7 starts in 1967-77 and 2 starts in 1977-78.  The information for these starts is primarily based on Peter Pring 1980 book 'Major Australian Races and Racehorses 1960-1980'.                                          
For each New Zealand start I have recorded the NZD prizemoney followed by the relevant RBA monthly exchange rate and the AUD equivalent.                                          
I have calculated his combined New Zealand and Australian career earnings as AUD 395,157.20 (an Australasian record) comprising New Zealand earnings of NZD 118,580 (AUD 111,687.20) + Australian earnings of AUD 283,470.                                          
On winning the AJC Craven Plate on 2 Oct 1976 his career stake earnings reached AUD 289,270.75 which passed Gunsynd's total of AUD 280,455 (Gunsynd's last start was on 28 April 1973 for which he earned prizemoney for second).                                           
Retired as Australasia's leading stake winner until passed by Balmerino.                                          
                        
                                          
TWO YEARS:  1969-1970  Starts 00:  00-00-00-00                                          
                                          
Did not race                                          
                                          
THREE YEARS:  1970-1971  Starts 14: 2-3-3-6                                          
                                          
Unpl-20   8/12/1970.   Lg nk x 0.5L   Avondale, Auckland, NI, NZ   AvJC Muriwai Maiden Hcp   6f.   1207m.   8.8.   54.5kg   1.13.0.   Fast   Valiance 8.8 1st   NZD 0   0.9980   AUD 0.00
                                          
Unpl-20   16/01/1971.   Lg nk x 0.5L   Avondale, Auckland, NI, NZ   AvJC First Kelston Hcp   7f.   1408m.   8.1.   51.5kg   1.26.0.   Fast   Lord Thurteen 8.5 1st   NZD 0   0.9980   AUD 0.00
Unpl-19   30/01/1971.   1.5L x 0.5L   Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   AuRC Tasman Hcp (2nd Division)   7f.   1408m.   8.6.   53.5kg   1.26.0.   Fast   Suizu 8.7 1st   NZD 0   0.9980   AUD 0.00
Unpl-20   6/02/1971.   DH x nk   Matamata, NI, NZ   MatRC B C Taylor Memorial Hcp   7f.   1408m.   8.6.   53.5kg   1.26.6.   Firm   Mighty Pal 8.1 1st   NZD 0   0.9980   AUD 0.00
3rd-18   13/02/1971.   2L x nk   Rotorua, NI, NZ   RotRC Waimangu Maiden Hcp (1st Division)   Abt 9.5f.   Abt 1900m.   8.6.   53.5kg   1.57.0.   Fast   Mac's Honey 8.5 1st   NZD 50   0.9980   AUD 50.10
2nd-13   22/02/1971.   Lg nk x 1.5L   Te Aroha, NI, NZ   TeArJC Welcome Hcp (2nd Division)   7f.   1408m.   8.7.   54kg   1.26.0.   Firm   Fashion 8.7 1st   NZD 120   0.9980   AUD 120.24
4th-23   6/03/1971.   2.5L x 2.5L   Pukekohe, near Auckland, NI, NZ   FrankRC Maiden Mile Hcp   8f.   1609m.   8.8.   54.5kg   1.37.6.   Fast   Avenida 8.10 1st   NZD 50   0.9980   AUD 50.10
4th-22   27/03/1971.   Nk x hd   Tauranga, NI, NZ     BofPRC Papamoa Hcp   8f.   1609m.   8.9.   55kg   1.39.8.   Firm   Roberta Belle 8.0 1st   NZD 50   0.9980   AUD 50.10
1st-21   10/04/1971.   1L x 0.75L   Rotorua, NI, NZ   RotRC Clarke Memorial Hcp   Abt 9.5f.    Abt 1900m.   cd 8.2   cd 52kg   1.58.0.   Fast   Royal Nip cd 8.0 2nd   NZD 670   0.9980   AUD 671.34
DH 3rd-17   24/04/1971.   3.5L x 1.5L   Te Aroha, NI, NZ   TeArJC Farewell Hcp   8f.   1609m.   7.11.   49.5kg   1.41.0.   Slow   Royal Blend 8.11 1st   NZD 75   0.9980   AUD 75.15
2nd-21   8/05/1971.   0.75L x 0.75L   Te Rapa, Hamilton, NI, NZ   WaikRC Parana Hcp (2nd Division)   7f.   1408m.   cd 7.13.   cd 50.5kg   1.29.5.   Heavy   Serroco 7.12 1st   NZD 120   0.9980   AUD 120.24
3rd-23   22/05/1971.   2L x hd   Te Rapa, Hamilton, NI, NZ   WaikRC Gordonton Plate   8f.   1609m.   8.0.   51kg   1.40.9.   Cutting out   Hi-Bing 8.0 1st   NZD 200   0.9980   AUD 200.40
1st-22   5/06/1971.   0.5L x 1L   Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   AuRC Jervois Hcp   7f.   1408m.   8.5.   53kg   1.32.0.   Heavy   Dixie Belle 8.1 2nd   NZD 1,300   0.9980   AUD 1,302.61
2nd-19   7/06/1971.   Hd x nse   Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   AuRC Ranfurly Hcp   7f.   1408m.   8.12.   56kg   1.34.6.   Heavy   Marcayo 8.7 1st   NZD 400   0.9980   AUD 400.80
                                          
                                          
FOUR YEARS:  1971-1972  Starts 20: 3-3-3-11                                          
                                          
2nd-16   4/09/1971.   0.75L x 3.0L   Avondale, Auckland, NI, NZ   AvJC Henderson Hcp   6f.   1207m.   8.10.   55.5kg   1.17.0   Heavy   La Fanu 8.0 1st   NZD 360   0.9980   AUD 360.72
1st-18   25/09/1971.   Hd x 1.5L   Te Rapa, Hamilton, NI, NZ   CamJC Tinopai Intermediate Hcp   8f.   1609m.   8.3   52kg   1.46.4   Heavy   Daveylou 8.1 2nd   NZD 1,250   0.9980   AUD 1,252.51
1st-16   12/10/1971.   0.75L x 0.75L   Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   AuRC Excelsior Hcp   Abt 8f.   Abt 1600m.   cd 7.10.   cd 49kg   1.40.4   Soft   Paimt cd 7.10 2nd   NZD 1,375   0.9980   AUD 1,377.76
Unpl-18   14/10/1972.   1L x hd   Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   AuRC October Hcp   11f.   2212m.   9.1   57.5kg   2.18.8   Fast   Suizu 8.2 1st   NZD 0   0.9980   AUD 0.00
5th-19   30/10/1971.    hd x hd   Tauranga, NI, NZ     BofPRC Open Sprint Hcp   7f.   1408m.   7.8   48kg   1.24.2   Fast   Hindi 7.12 1st   NZD 60   0.9980   AUD 60.12
4th-22   6/11/1971.   1L x 1L   Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   AuRC Ponui Hcp   Abt 8f.   Abt 1600m.   7.9   48.5kg   1.35.8   Fast   Mighty Pal 7.8 1st   NZD 150   0.9980   AUD 150.30
Unpl-18   20/11/1971.   1.5L x 1L   Te Rapa, Hamilton, NI, NZ   WaikRC Miller Mile Hcp   8f.   1609m.   7.9   48.5kg   1.43.5   Heavy   Hi-Bing 8.3 1st   NZD 0   0.9980   AUD 0.00
Unpl-15   4/12/1971.   Nk x hd   Pukekohe, near Auckland, NI, NZ   FranklinRC South Auckland Gold Cup Hcp   11f.   2212m.   cd 7.6   cd 47kg   2.23.0   Easy   Sailing Home 8.7 1st   NZD 0   0.9965   AUD 0.00
                                          
3rd-7   3/04/1972.   0.75L x lg nk   Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   AuRC Bowen Hcp   6f.   1207m.   cd 7.6   cd 47kg   1.12.0   Easy   Gay Prince 7.13 1st   NZD 300   0.9965   AUD 301.05
Unpl-19   15/04/1972.   Nse x nk   Tauranga, NI, NZ     BofPRC City Hcp   7f.   1408m.   7.11.   49.5kg   1.24.6   Firm   Licketysplit 8.7  1st   NZD 0   0.9965   AUD 0.00
Unpl-13   29/04/1972.   3.5L x 1.25L   Avondale, Auckland, NI, NZ   AvJC Mt. Eden Hcp   7f.   1408m.   7.9   48.5kg   1.28.0   Heavy   Execute 8.3 1st   NZD 0   0.9965   AUD 0.00
4th-17   6/05/1972.   1L x 1L   Te Rapa, Hamilton, NZ   WaikRC Golden Mile   8f.   1609m.   7.9   48.5kg   1.43.1   Soft   Hi-Bing 8.9 1st   NZD 130   0.9965   AUD 130.46
2nd-17   13/05/1972.   0.5L x 1.75L   Te Rapa, Hamilton, NZ   WaikRC Stewards' Hcp   7f.   1408m.   7.6   47kg   1.26.8   Soft   Almoss cd 7.8 1st   NZD 600   0.9965   AUD 602.11
1st-18   27/05/1972.   1.5L x hd   Rotorua, NI, NZ   RotRC A.W. McGill Hcp   10f. 180y.   2176m.   cd 7.9   cd 49kg   2.17.0   Firm   Willie Can 7.11 2nd   NZD 3,350   0.9965   AUD 3,361.77
3rd-15   05/06/1972.   0.5L x 0.5L   Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   AuRC Remuera Hcp   8f.   1609m.   8.6   53.5kg   1.42.0   Holding   Tetrarch's Gift 8.3 1st   NZD 400   0.9965   AUD 401.40
4th-17   10/06/1972.   Nse x 2.5L   Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   AuRC Cornwall Hcp   11f.   2212m.   8.5   53kg   2.29.0   Holding   Captain Jest 8.13 1st   NZD 300   0.9965   AUD 301.05
2nd-21   24/06/1972.   Nk x 5.5L   Tauranga, NI, NZ     BofPRC Winter Hcp   8.5f.   1709m.   8.5   53kg   2.14.8   Soft   Willie Can 8.2 1st   NZD 800   0.9965   AUD 802.81
3rd-11   1/07/1972.   0.75L x 1L   Avondale, Auckland, NI, NZ   AvJC Members' Hcp   11f.   2212m.   8.7   54kg   2.30.0   Heavy   Captain Jest 9.3 1st   NZD 500   0.9965   AUD 501.76
Unpl-18   8/07/1972.   5L x 1L   Avondale, Auckland, NI, NZ   AvJC Rawson Memorial Hcp   11f.   2212m.   8.8   54.5kg   2.34.0   Heavy   Sakata 8.0 1st   NZD 0   0.9965   AUD 0.00
4th-18   29/07/1972.   2.5L x hd   Taumaranui, NI, NZ   TauRC Taumarunui Gold Cup Hcp   10f.    2011m.   8.6   53.5kg   2.09.4   Easy   Trutone 8.8 1st   NZD 500   0.9965   AUD 501.76
                                          
                                          
FIVE YEARS:  1972-1973  Starts 11: 3-2-1-5                                          
                                          
Unpl-17   5/08/1972.   0.75L x 0.75L   at Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   FranklinRC Motion Hcp   11f.   2212m.   8.6   53.5kg   2.20.0   Easy   Jindivik 7.11 1st   NZD 0   0.9965   AUD 0.00
1st-18   22/09/1972.   0.5L x hd   Te Rapa, Hamilton, NI, NZ   CamJC Trelawney Hcp   7f.   1408m.   8.3   52kg   1.28.9   Easy   Village Oak 7.7 2nd   NZD 1,650   0.9965   AUD 1,655.80
Unpl-16   10/10/1972.   Nse x 1.5L   Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   AuRC Dominion Hcp   Abt 11f.   Abt 2200m.   8.4   52.5kg   2.23.8   Easy   Trutone 8.10 1st   NZD 0   0.9965   AUD 0.00
Unpl-15   21/10/1972.   1L x nk   Rotorua, NI, NZ   RotRC S.E. Carr Memorial Hcp   Abt 10f. 180y.   Abt 2176m.   8.4   52.5kg   2.15.0   Fast   Habanita 7.11 1st   NZD 0   0.9965   AUD 0.00
3rd-22   4/11/1972.   1.5L x nse   Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   AuRC Ponui Hcp   Abt 8f.   Abt 1600m.   8.5   53kg   1.35.6   Fast   Mighty Oak 7.10 1st   NZD 600   0.9965   AUD 602.11
Unpl-24   11/11/1972.   Hd x 1.0L   Avondale, Auckland, NI, NZ   AvJC Avondale Gold Cup Hcp   11f.   2212m.   cd 7.13   cd 50.5kg   2.15.1   Fast   Beatnik 8.10 1st   NZD 0   0.9965   AUD 0.00
Unpl-14   25/11/1972.   2.25L x 0.75L   Te Rapa, Hamilton, NI, NZ   WaikRC Grandstand Hcp   7f.   1408m.   8.2   52kg   1.23.2   Fast   Princess Eulogy 7.7 1st   NZD 0   0.9965   AUD 0.00
2nd-24   9/12/1972.   1L x hd   Te Aroha, NI, NZ   TeArJC W.S. Goosman Memorial Hcp   11f.   2212m.   8.2   52kg   2.21.0   Soft   Jack Johnson 7.11 1st   NZD 750   1.0668   AUD 703.04
1st-18   27/12/1972.   1L x 0.5L   Rotorua, NI, NZ   RotRC Christmas Hcp   Abt 10f. 180y.   Abt 2176m.   8.5   53kg   2.14.0   Firm   Master Sobig 8.0 2nd   NZD 2,300   1.0668   AUD 2,155.98
                                          
1st-16   2/01/1973.    hd x 2.5L   Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   AuRC Nathan's Memorial Hcp   11f.   2212m.   8.8   54.5kg   2.19.0   Fast   Pilfer 7.13 2nd   NZD 3,125   1.0668   AUD 2,929.32
2nd-14   28/07/1973.   0.5L x 1.5L   Te Awamutu, NI, NZ   TauRC Steward's Hcp   7f.   1408m.   9.4   59kg   1.27.0   Easy   Gold Realm 8.0 1st   NZD 800   1.0479   AUD 763.43
                                          
                                          
SIX YEARS:  1973-1974  Starts 24: 7-2-2-13                                          
                                          
Unpl-15   11/08/1973.   Hd x Hd   Pukekohe , near Auckland, NI, NZ   FranklinRC Motion Hcp      1600m.      59.5kg   1.43.0   Soft   Summerosa 51.25 1st   NZD 0   1.0591   AUD 0.00
Unpl-8   8/09/1973.   2.5L x 2.0L   Avondale, Auckland, NI, NZ   AvJC Shorts Hcp      1200m.      55.5kg   1.16.5   Heavy   Catamaran cd 50 1st   NZD 0   1.0063   AUD 0.00
3rd-16   22/09/1973.   1.5L x hd   Te Rapa, Hamilton, NI, NZ   CamJC J.C. Hutton Hcp      Abt 2200m.      56.5kg   2.30.5   Heavy   Final Request 53 1st   NZD 500   1.0063   AUD 496.87
1st-13   6/10/1973.   2.2L x 0.75L   Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   AuRC Spring hcp      Abt 2200m.      57kg   2.18.0   Firm   Syndrome 51 2nd   NZD 3,125   1.0050   AUD 3,109.45
Unpl-15   13/10/1973.   2.25L x nse   Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   AuRC Mitchelson Cup Hcp      Abt 2400m.      58kg   2.27.8   Fast   Cyretta 49.5 1st   NZD 0   1.0050   AUD 0.00
Unpl-11   3/11/1973.   0.75L x nse   Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   AuRC Alison Stakes      Abt 2000m.      58.5kg   2.06.4   Firm   Kiwi Can 58.5 1st   NZD 0   1.0303   AUD 0.00
Unpl-21   10/11/1973.   2.5L x hd   Avondale, Auckland, NI, NZ   AvJC Gold Cup Hcp      2200m.      56kg   2.12.8   Fast   Jan's Beau 57 1st   NZD 0   1.0303   AUD 0.00
Unpl-13   14/11/1973.   0.5L x 0.75L   Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   AuRC IATA International Stakes      Abt 2200m.      58.5kg   2.26.0   Soft   Sharda 58.5 1st   NZD 0   1.0303   AUD 0.00
Unpl-12   17/11/1973.   1.5L x nk   Te Rapa, Hamilton, NI, NZ   WaikRC Foxbridge Plate      2000m.      58.5kg   2.04.7   Firm   Brogue 57 1st   NZD 0   1.0303   AUD 0.00
Unpl-20   8/12/1973.   1.5L x 1.5L   Te Aroha, NI, NZ   TeArJC Thames Valley Stakes      1600m.      58kg   1.36.0   Fast   Sharda 58 1st   NZD 0   1.0414   AUD 0.00
Unpl-14   15/12/1973.   3.5L x 3L   Paeroa, NI, NZ   PaeroaRC  Queen Elizabeth II Plate      2200m.      58.5kg   2.12.8   Fast   Jan's Beau 58.5 1st   NZD 0   1.0414   AUD 0.00
Unpl-20   26/12/1973.   Hd x 2.5L   Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   AuRC Queen Elizabeth Hcp      Abt 2400m.      54kg   2.31.0   Easy   Aquareine 52 1st   NZD 0   1.0414   AUD 0.00
                                          
2nd-20   1/01/1974.   5L x 1.5L   Ellerslie, Auckland, NZ   AuRC Centennial Auckland Cup Hcp      Abt 3200m.      53kg   3.17.6   Fast   Rose Mellay cd 49 1st   NZD 15,000   1.0662   AUD 14,068.66
3rd-14   13/01/1974.   0.75L x 0.75L   Avondale, Auckland, NI, NZ   AvJC J.B. O'Loghlen Memorial Hcp      2200m.      57kg   2.15.0   Fast   Mogador 53.5 1st   NZD 1,200   1.0662   AUD 1,125.49
1st-15   19/01/1974.   1.5L x nse   Trentham, Wellington, NI, NZ   WeRC 100th Anniversary of the Wellington Cup Hcp (G1)      3200m.      54kg   3.23.5   Firm   Manchero 48 2nd   NZD 33,750   1.0662   AUD 31,654.47
1st-5   26/01/1974.   0.75L x 1.25L   Trentham, Wellington, NI, NZ   WRC Trentham Stakes      2400m.      59kg   2.29.0   Fast   Glengowan 59 2nd   NZD 5,070   1.0662   AUD 4,755.21
1st-9   6/02/1974.   1L x 1L   Avondale, Auckland, NI, NZ   AvJC New Zealand Day Hcp      2200m.      58kg   2.15.3   Fast   Dark Ronald cd 47.5 2nd   NZD 6,500   1.0458   AUD 6,215.34
Unpl-18   9/02/1974.   1.0L x 0.75L   Rotorua, NI, NZ   RotRC Rotorua Gold Cup      2160m.      58kg   2.12.2   Firm   Gold Ducat 48.5 1st   NZD 0   1.0458   AUD 0.00
1st-11   19/02/1974.   1.25L x 2.25L   Te Rapa, Hamilton, NI, NZ   WaikRC New Zealand International Invitation Stakes      2200m.      58kg   2.16.1   Fast   Peg's Pride 55.5 2nd   NZD 12,200   1.0458   AUD 11,665.71
4th-6   12/03/1974.    nk x 1L    Trentham, Wellington, NI, NZ   WeRC Port Nicholson Stakes      2000m.      58kg   2.05.75   Fast   Fury's Order 52.5 1st   NZD 300   1.0140   AUD 295.86
2nd-13   16/03/1974.   2.25L x sht nk   Trentham, Wellington, NI, NZ   WeRC H.R. Chalmers Stakes Hcp      3200m.      58.5kg   3.17.75   Fast   Purdie 47.5 1st   NZD 2,800   1.0140   AUD 2,761.34
4th-6   13/04/1974.   1.5L x 3L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Autumn Stakes      2000m.      58kg   2.10.1.   Soft,    Igloo 58 4/6F 1st   AUD 650*      
1st-15   15/04/1974.   Sht nk x 6L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Sydney Cup (G1)      3200m.      58.5kg   3.37.1.   Heavy, 30/1.   Grand Scale (NZ) 51.5 9/2 2nd   AUD 73,000      
1st-4   25/04/1974.   4L x 1.5L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Queen Elizabeth Randwick Stakes (G1)      2400m.      58.5kg   2.46.0.   Heavy, 10/9F   Dayana 57 8/1 2nd   AUD 9,850      
* Peter Pring in his 1980 book (Major Australian Races and Racehorses 1960-1980) has $65 for 4th prize which is incorrect.                                          
                                          
SEVEN YEARS:  1974-1975  Starts 15: 2-2-2-9                                          
                                          
6th-10   14/09/1974.   0.75L x 0.5L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   Tattersall's Club Chelmsford Stakes      1800m.      59kg   1.52.9.   Good,    Passetreul 50 7/2F 1st   AUD 0      
3rd-7   28/09/1974.   Lg nk x sht hd   Rosehill, Sydney, NSW, AUS   STC Hill Stakes      1750m.      59kg   1.48.6.   Good, 11/2.   Leica Lover 57 3/1 1st   AUD 1,000      
13th-20   7/10/1974.   0.5L x 4L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Metropolitan      2600m.      61kg   2.43.3.   Good, 7/2F.   Passetreul 55.5 11/2 1st   AUD 0      
2nd-8   12/10/1974.   Sht hd x nk   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Craven Plte      2000m.      59kg   2.02.9.   Good, 13/1.   Leica Lover 57 1/1F 1st   AUD 4,000      
1st-13   26/10/1974.   1.5L x hd   Moonee Valley, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   MVRC W.S. Cox Plate (G1)      2050m.      59kg   2.09.9.   Slow, 7/1.   Taras Bulba 49.5 5/2F 2nd   AUD 53,100      
2nd-11   2/11/1974.   1L x 2L   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC L.K.S. Mackinnon Stakes      2000m.      58.5kg   2.04.9.   Slow, 6/4F.   Leilani 54.5 13/8 1st   AUD 2,700      
7th-22   5/11/1974.   1L x 1L   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC Melbourne Cup      3200m.      61kg   3.23.2.   Good, 11/2.   Think Big 53 12/1 1st   AUD 0      
3rd-16   9/11/1974.   2.5L x 1.25L   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC Queens Cup      2500m.      59.5kg   2.36.2.   Fast, 7/2.   Leilani 55 6/4F 1st   AUD 1,200      
5th-15   7/12/1974.   2.25L x hd   Ascot, Perth, WA, AUS   WATC Winterbottom Stakes      1400m.      58kg   1.23.6.   Good,    My Friend Paul (USA) 58 4/1 1st   AUD 0      
1st-5   12/12/1974.   0.5L x 2.5L   Ascot, Perth, WA, AUS   WATC C.B. Cox Stakes      2400m.      59kg   2.35.91.   Good, 4/7F.   Runyon 59 9/4 2nd   AUD 10,500      
                                          
7th-16   1/01/1975.   1L x 2.5L   Ascot, Perth, WA, AUS   WATC Perth Cup      3200m.      61kg   3.21.17.   Good,    Runyon 53.5 7/1 1st   AUD 0      
7th-10   1/03/1975.   2.5L x 2L   Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   AuRC Century Stakes      Abt. 2000m.      58kg   2.08.4.   Soft   Hi-Bing 58 1st   NZD 0   1.0102   AUD 0.00
5th-6   22/03/1975.   2.5L x 0.5L   Warwick Farm, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Chipping Norton Stakes      2100m.      58kg   2.11.3.   Good,    Apollo Eleven (NZ) 58 5/2 1st   AUD 120.00      
4th-17   30/03/1975.   1.5L x 1L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Sydney Cup      3200m.      59kg   3.22.6.   Slow, 12/1.   Gay Master 51 40/1 1st   AUD 5,000.00      
5th-7   5/04/1975.    Sht hd x 1.5L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Queen Elizabeth Stakes      2400m.      58.5kg   2.31.3.   Good,    Jandell 56 16/1 1st   AUD 150.00      
                                          
                                          
EIGHT YEARS:  1975-1976  Starts 9: 1-0-1-7                                          
                                          
4th-9   28/02/1976.   0.5L x 1.25L   Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   AuRC Second Century Stakes      Abt. 2000m.      58kg   2.07.01.   Firm   Black Rod 58 1st   NZD 800   1.2038   AUD 664.56
4th-5   27/03/1976.    Sht hd x 3L   Rosehill, Sydney, NSW, AUS   STC Rawson Stakes      1750m.      58kg   1.47.8.   Slow,   Balmerino 52.5 4/7F 1st   AUD 500      
5th-6   10/04/1976.   1L x 0.75L   Warwick Farm, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Chipping Norton stakes      2100m.      58kg   2.11.9.   Good,   Taras Bulba 57 4/9F 1st   AUD 120      
4th-5   17/04/1976.    Lg nk x sht hd   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Autumn Stakes      2000m.      58kg   2.04.1.   Good,   Participator 58 10/9F 1st   AUD 650      
4th-17   19/04/1976.   0.5L x 3L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Sydney Cup      3200m.      57kg   3.23.6.   Good, 25/1.   Oopik (NZ) 57.5 2/1F 1st   AUD 5,000      
1st-10   26/04/1976.   0.75L x sht hd   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Anzac Day Cup      2400m.      58kg   2.33.6.   Good, 5/2F.   On Your Mark 47.5 9/1 2nd   AUD 6,900      
DH 3rd-14   8/05/1976.    Sht hd x 6L   Moonee Valley, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   MVRC Moonee Valley Cup      2600m.      58kg   2.47.0.   Good, 9/2.   Poker Night 46 15/1 1st   AUD 2,400      
4th-18   17/05/1976.   2.5L x 0.75L    Morphettville, Adelaide, SA, AUS   SAJC Adelaide Cup      3200m.      59kg   3.20.5. (RR)   Good,   Grand Scale 53 6/1 1st   AUD 1,500      
5th-13   31/07/1976.   0.5L x hd   run at Te Awamutu, NI, NZ   TaumarunuiRC Commercial Hotel Hcp      1100m.      62.5kg   1.10.2.   Heavy   Regal Tan 53.5 1st   NZD 0.00   1.2417   AUD 0.00
                                          
NINE YEARS:  1976-1977  Starts 15: 4-2-1-8                                          
                                          
1st-   18/08/1976.   Nse x hd   Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   AuRC Broadway Hcp      1200m.      62kg   1.19.09.   Heavy, 32/1.   Oranmore 64 2nd   NZD 1,875   1.2438   AUD 1,507.48
2nd-   280/8/1976.   0.5L x 0.5L   Auckland, NI, NZ   PakurangaHC Jellicoe Hcp      1600m.      63.5kg   1.43.56.   Heavy   Optician 57 1st   NZD 1,000   1.2438   AUD 803.99
8th-15   18/09/1976.   0.75L x hd   Rosehill, Sydney, NSW, AUS   STC Rosehill Cup      2000m.      57kg   2.00.9.   Good   Northbridge Lad 48 7/2 1st   AUD 0      
1st-5   2/10/1976.   Sht hd x 5L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Craven Plate      2000m.      59kg   2.05.1.   Good, 7/1.   Taras Bulba 59 2/11F 2nd   AUD 9,850      
1st-20   4/10/1976.   1.25L x nk   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC The Metropolitan (G1)      2600m.      56.5kg   2.46.9.   Good, 12/1.   Participator 54.5 12/1 2nd   AUD 70,000      
2nd-18   16/10/1976.   1L x 0.5L   Caulfield, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VATC Caulfield Cup      2400m.      58kg   2.36.7.   Heavy, 12/1.   How Now 52 3/1F 1st   AUD 21,690      
9th-14   23/10/1976.   3L x 1.5L   Moonee Valley, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   MVRC W.S. Cox Plate      2050m.      59kg   2.04.3 (CR)   Fast, 14/1.   Surround 47.5 7/2 1st   AUD 0      
7th-9   30/10/1976.    Sht hd x 0.5L   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC Mackinnon Stakes      2000m.      59kg   2.05.2.   Fast, 12/1.   Gold and Black (NZ) 57 40/1 1st   AUD 0      
11th-23   2/11/1976.   2L x 0.5L   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC Melbourne Cup      3200m.      58kg   3.34.1.   Heavy, 7/1.   Van Der Hum (NZ) 54.5 9/2F 1st   AUD 0      
3rd-   22/12/1976.   0.75L x 4L   Avondale, Auckland, NI, NZ   AvJC Westbrook Carpets Plate      2000m.      58.5kg   2.09.64.   Easy   Royal Cadenza 57 1st   NZD 1,200   1.1436   AUD 1,049.32
4th-   29/12/1976.   Margin?   Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   AuRC King's Plate      1600m.      58kg   Time?   Track Cond?   Battle Eve 1st   NZD 250   1.1436   AUD 218.61
                                          
Unpl-   1/01/1977.   Margin?   Ellerslie, Auckland, NI, NZ   AuRC Auckland Cup      3200m.      59.5kg   Time?   Track Cond?   Royal Cadenza 1st   NZD 0   1.1428   AUD 0.00
Unpl-   23/02/1977.   Margin?   Te Rapa, Hamilton, NI, NZ   WaikRC Queen Elizabeth II Cup      2200m.      59kg   Time?   Track Cond?   Good Lord 1st   NZD 0   1.1474   AUD 0.00
4th-7*   2/04/1977.   Hd x 0.75L   Warwick Farm, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Chipping Norton Stakes      2100m.      58kg   2.11.4.   Fast, 10/1.   In Pursuit 52.5 1/1F 1st   AUD 590      
1st-9   30/07/1977.   1L x 2.25L   run at Te Awamutu, NI, NZ   TaumarunuiRC Trevor Gillick Hcp      1100m.      61.5kg   1.12.0.   Heavy   Lord Novello 52.5 2nd   NZD 2,550   1.1512   AUD 2,215.08
* Tendon injury so returned home.                                          
                                          
TEN YEARS:  1977-1978  Starts 7: 1-0-2-4                                          
                                          
Unpl-   3/09/1977.   Margin?   Avondale, Auckland, NI, NZ   AvJC Sheriff Hcp      1200m.      ?kg   Time?   Track Cond?   Warbin 1st   NZD 0.00   1.1406   AUD 0.00
1st-   10/09/1977.   2L x 1.5L   Avondale, Auckland, NI, NZ   AvJC Bardstown Stakes      1600m.      58.5kg   1.44.73.   Heavy   Royal Cadenza 58.5 2nd   NZD 8,125.00   1.1406   AUD 7,123.44
3rd-7   24/09/1977.   0.75L x 1.25L   Rosehill, Sydney, NSW, AUS   STC Hill Stakes      1750m.      59kg   1.47.0.   Good, 2/1F.   Carlaw (NZ) 59 4/1 1st   AUD 1,500      
3rd-7   1/10/1977.   2.25L x 1.75L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC Craven Plate      2000m.      59kg   2.02.5.   Fast, 3/1.   Denise's Joy 56.5 2/1F 1st   AUD 1,500      
13th-24   3/10/1977.   5L x 0.75L   Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS   AJC The Metropolitan      2600m.      59kg   2.41.1.   Fast,16/1.    Sir Serene 49 9/1 1st   AUD 0      
8th-18   15/10/1977.   1.25L x sht hd   Caulfield, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VATC Caulfield Cup      2400m.      57.5kg   2.28.5.   Fast, 66/1.   Ming Dynasty 54 9/1 1st   AUD 0      
7th-10   29/10/1977.   0.5L x hd   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC Mackinnon Stakes      2000m.      59kg   2.02.4.   Fast, 33/1.   Sir Silver Lad (NZ) 57 7/4F 1st   AUD 0      
                                          
« Last Edit: 2016-Jun-30, 08:17 PM by tontonan »

Offline The Jackal

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« 2014-Oct-02, 09:16 AM Reply #685 »
Someone has PM'd me and asked if I can think of any horse, not listed on this thread, who meets the following criteria:

- before 1940
- 8 or more starts between 1 sep and end nov
- Gr1 win

Can anyone think of any qualifiers?




The obvious answer here is Nightmarch who did it twice.


FOUR YEARS: 1929-1930 Starts 16: 8-3-4-1

Unpl-25 24/08/1929. 0.5L x 2L Rosehill, Sydney, NSW, AUS RRC Three And Four Year Old Hcp 7f. 1408m. 9.11. 62kg 1.27.0. Ticino 8.3 3/1EF 1st
1st-20 14/09/1929. 2L x 0.5L Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS Tattersalls' Club Spring Hcp 10f. 2011m. 9.4. 59kg 2.05.0. 6/1. Paquito 9.3 9/4F 2nd
3rd-7 21/09/1929. 0.75L x nk Rosehill, Sydney, NSW, AUS RRC Hill Stakes 8f. 1609m. 9.0. 57kg 1.38.5 9/2. Winalot 9.3 12/1 1st
1st-20 5/10/1929. 2L x 1.5L Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS AJC Epsom Handicap (G1) 8f. 1609m. 9.4. 59kg 1.36.75. 5/1. Reonui 9.1 50/1 2nd
2nd-14 7/10/1929. 0.5L x 0.5L Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS AJC Metropolitan 13f. 2615m. 9.12. 62.5kg 2.44.0. 3/1F Loquacious 8.11 5/1 1st
1st-6 12/10/1929. 2L x 3L Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS AJC Randwick Plate 16f. 3219m. 9.0. 57kg 3.37.25. 10/9F Kidaides 9.4 20/1 2nd
1st-4 26/10/1929. Sht nk x sht nk Moonee Valley, Melbourne, VIC, AUS MVRC W.S. Cox Plate (G1) 9.5f. 1911m. 9.0. 57kg 2.01.5 5/4F Highland 9.1 5/2 2nd
3rd-5 2/11/1929. Nk x 0.5L Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS VRC Melbourne Stakes (later Mackinnon Stakes) 10f. 2011m. 9.0. 57kg 2.04.25 5/4EF High Syce 5/4EF 1st
1st-14 5/11/1929. 3L x 1L Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS VRC Melbourne Cup (G1) 16f. 3219m. 9.2. 58kg 3.26.5. 6/1. Paquito 8.5 33/1 2nd

1st-4 15/02/1930. 0.75L x 3L Wingatui, Dunedin, NZ DJC James Hazlett Gold Cup 8f. 1609m. 9.10. 62kg 1.40.6. Paquito 9.1 2nd
3rd-9 22/03/1930. 6L x 2L run at Moorefield, Sydney, NSW, AUS HawkRC Hawkesbury Autumn Hcp 10f. 2011m. 10.7. 66.5kg 2.06.0. 9/10F Cavedweller 8.1 7/1 1st
1st-5 5/04/1930. 3L x 6L Rosehill, Sydney, NSW, AUS RRC Rawson Stakes (G1) 9f. 1810m. 9.0. 57kg 1.54.5. 8/11F Chide (NZ) 8.11 2/1 2nd
3rd-5 12/04/1930. 2.5L x nk Warwick Farm, Sydney, NSW, AUS AJC Chipping Norton Stakes 10f. 2011m. 9.7. 60kg 2.06.0. 5/2. Phar Lap 8.10 5/4F 1st
1st-5 19/04/1930. Sht hd x 0.5L Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS AJC Autumn Stakes 12f. 2414m. 9.0. 57kg 2.33.25. 9/10F Amounis 9.0 1/1 2nd
2nd-4 23/04/1930. 1L x 0.75L Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS AJC All-Aged Stakes 8f. 1609m. 9.0. 57kg 1.37.0. 11/8EF Amounis 8.12 11/8EF 1st
2nd-3 26/04/1930. 10L x 0.75L Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS AJC Plate (later AJC Queen Elizabeth Stakes) 18f. 3621m. 9.0. 57kg 3.49.5. (ANZR) 9/4. Phar Lap 7.13 2/5F 1st

FIVE YEARS: 1930-1931 Starts 17: 5-6-3-3

3rd-10 30/08/1930. Sht hd x 3L Warwick Farm, Sydney, NSW, AUS AJC Warwick Stakes 8f. 1609m. 9.3. 58.5kg 1.38.0. 7/2. Amounis 9.0 6/1 1st
3rd-9 6/09/1930. 0.5L x 1L Canterbury, Sydney, NSW, AUS CPRC Canterbury Stakes 6f. 1207m. 9.2. 58kg 1.12.25. (CR) 7/2. Holdfast 8.11 2/1F 1st
2nd-7 13/09/1930. 2.5L x sht nk Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS Tattersall's Club Chelmsford Stakes 9f. 1810m. 9.11. 62kg 1.51.5. 9/2. Phar Lap 9.4 1/5F 1st
2nd-7 20/09/1930. 1L x 1.5L Rosehill, Sydney, NSW, AUS RRC Hill Stakes 8f. 1609m. 9.3. 58.5kg 1.40.0. 4/1. Phar Lap 9.4 2/7F 1st
2nd-5 4/10/1930. 0.5L x 3L Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS AJC Spring Stakes 12f. 2414m. 9.5. 59.5kg 2.33.25. 7/1. Phar Lap 8.11 1/10F 1st
2nd-4 8/10/1930. 6L x 10L Randwick, Sydney, NSW, AUS AJC Craven Plate 10f. 2011m. 9.4. 59kg 2.03.0. (ANZR) 5/1. Phar Lap 8.11 1/6F 1st
1st-13 8/11/1930. 0.5L x 2L Riccarton, Christchurch, NZ CJC New Zealand Cup (G1) 16f. 3219m. 9.6. 60kg 3.26.5. Good, Concentrate 8.10 2nd
1st-4 12/11/1930. 4L x 8L Riccarton, Christchurch, NZ CJC Canterbury Cup 16f. 3219m. 9.5. 59.5kg 3.52.2. Good Concentrate 9.5 2nd
2nd-3 15/11/1930. Hd x 3L Riccarton, Christchurch, NZ CJC G. G. Stead Gold Cup 10f. 2011m. 9.3. 58.5kg 2.11.4. Good Cylinder 7.12 1st


Offline tontonan

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« 2014-Oct-02, 01:48 PM Reply #686 »
Battle Heights.  What a warrior. 57 starts before his first Group 1 win as a 6YO.  He was just warming up.

What gets me is that at his first start as a 9YO he wins a 1200m race at Ellerslie and four months after a tendon injury he wins his last race as a 9YO over 1100m (both notably on heavy tracks).  He'd never won below 1400m before, chirpy old bugger.

Another interesting thing was that when he was narrowly beaten by Leica Lover in the 1974 Craven Plate it was run the Saturday after the Metropolitan and when he beat Taras Bulba for the Craven Plate in 1976 it was held on the Saturday before the Metropolitan as it was in 1977 when he was third behind Denise's Joy. 

There was only one more Craven Plate, won by Ming Dynasty in 1978 before the race was scuttled.  The following season the pattern system was introduced.  Given the results of the Craven Plate over the previous 100 or so years I wonder what classification it would have been given had it been maintained ?

Offline The Jackal

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« 2014-Oct-02, 03:26 PM Reply #687 »
Battle Heights.  What a warrior. 57 starts before his first Group 1 win as a 6YO.  He was just warming up.

What gets me is that at his first start as a 9YO he wins a 1200m race at Ellerslie and four months after a tendon injury he wins his last race as a 9YO over 1100m (both notably on heavy tracks).  He'd never won below 1400m before, chirpy old bugger.

Another interesting thing was that when he was narrowly beaten by Leica Lover in the 1974 Craven Plate it was run the Saturday after the Metropolitan and when he beat Taras Bulba for the Craven Plate in 1976 it was held on the Saturday before the Metropolitan as it was in 1977 when he was third behind Denise's Joy. 

There was only one more Craven Plate, won by Ming Dynasty in 1978 before the race was scuttled.  The following season the pattern system was introduced.  Given the results of the Craven Plate over the previous 100 or so years I wonder what classification it would have been given had it been maintained ?


He was the early to mid 70's  version of Sir Slick.
Sir Slick won a Group 1 at start number 49. His trainer must have got a wee bit excited after that one because he ended up having 151 race starts.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2014-Oct-02, 03:35 PM Reply #688 »

There was only one more Craven Plate, won by Ming Dynasty in 1978 before the race was scuttled.  The following season the pattern system was introduced.  Given the results of the Craven Plate over the previous 100 or so years I wonder what classification it would have been given had it been maintained ?

Have you got the right race mate? Craven Plate has been held every year except EI since the 1860's. In fact it is Race 5 on Saturday!

They got rid of the St Leger which was Australia's oldest race - dreadful administration that they couldn't find a place for the oldest race  emthdown

Year Winner
2013 Honorius (AUS) 2009
2012 Mourayan (IRE) 2006
2011 My Kingdom Of Fife (GB) 2005
2010 C'Est La Guerre (NZ) 2004
2009 Miss Marielle (AUS) 2004
2008 Lorne Dancer (AUS) 2004
2007 not held
2006 Cateclipse (AUS) 2001
2005 Mummify (AUS) 1999
2004 Fiery Venture (AUS) 1999
2003 Shower Of Roses (NZ) 1999
2002 Manner Hill (AUS) 1996
2001 The Man (AUS) 1997
2000 Yippyio (AUS) 1993
1999 Tie The Knot (AUS) 1994
1998 Sharscay (NZ) 1991
1997 Yippyio (AUS) 1993
1996 Adventurous (AUS) 1993
1995 Stony Bay (NZ) 1991
1994 Fraternity (NZ) 1990
1993 Mahaya (NZ) 1989
1992 Telesto (NZ) 1989
1991 Lord Revenir (NZ) 1987
1990 Dual Treasures (AUS) 1986
1989 Sarah Fay (NZ) 1985
1988 Balciano (NZ) 1983
1987 Ostensible (USA) 1983
1986 Sotip (NZ) 1980
1985 Hayai (NZ) 1979
1984 Hayai (NZ) 1979
1978 Ming Dynasty (AUS) 1973
1977 Denise's Joy (AUS) 1972
1976 Battle Heights (NZ) 1967
1975 Dalrello (AUS) 1970
1974 Leica Lover (AUS) 1970
1973 Analie (NZ) 1969
1972 Passetreul (AUS) 1968
1971 Regal Rhythm (AUS) 1964
1970 Planet Kingdom (AUS) 1967
1969 Roman Consul (NZ) 1964
1968 Prince Grant (NZ) 1962
1967 Winfreux (AUS) 1961
1966 Prince Grant (NZ) 1962
1965 Strauss (AUS) 1961
1964 Summer Regent (NZ) 1958
1963 Summer Fair (NZ) 1958
1962 Summer Fair (NZ) 1958
1961 Nilarco (AUS) 1956
1960 Tulloch (NZ) 1954
1959 Travel Boy (NZ) 1956
1958 Prince Darius (AUS) 1954
1957 Prince Darius (AUS) 1954
1956 Caranna (AUS) 1952
1955 Prince Cortauld (NZ) 1950
1954 Prince Cortauld (NZ) 1950
1953 Tarien (GB) 1949
1952 Hydrogen (AUS) 1948
1951 Hydrogen (AUS) 1948
1950 Playboy (AUS) 1946
1949 Carbon Copy (AUS) 1945
1948 Karachi (NZ) 1944
1947 Russia (AUS) 1940
1946 not held
1945 Flight (AUS) 1940
1944 Tea Rose (AUS) 1941
1943 Flight (AUS) 1940
1942 Yaralla (AUS) 1938
1941 Beau Vite (NZ) 1936
1940 Beau Vite (NZ) 1936
1939 High Caste (NZ) 1936
1938 Young Idea (AUS) 1932
1937 Talking (AUS) 1933
1936 Gay Blonde (NZ) 1931
1935 Peter Pan (AUS) 1929
1934 Chatham (AUS) 1928
1933 Chatham (AUS) 1928
1932 Chatham (AUS) 1928
1931 Phar Lap (NZ) 1926
1930 Phar Lap (NZ) 1926
1929 Phar Lap (NZ) 1926
1928 Amounis (AUS) 1922
1927 Limerick (NZ) 1923
1926 Windbag (AUS) 1921
1925 Windbag (AUS) 1921
1924 Gloaming (AUS) 1915
1923 Rivoli (AUS) 1919
1922 Gloaming (AUS) 1915
1921 Beauford (AUS) 1916
1920 Greenstead (AUS) 1914
1919 Gloaming (AUS) 1915
1918 Cetigne (AUS) 1912
1917 Biplane (AUS) 1914
1916 Carlita (NZ) 1911
1915 St. Carwyne (AUS) 1910
1914 Woorak (AUS) 1911
1913 Duke Foote (AUS) 1907
1912 Duke Foote (AUS) 1907
1911 Lady Medallist (AUS) 1906
1910 Parsee (AUS) 1905
1909 Maltine (AUS) 1904
1908 Mooltan (AUS) 1903
1907 Mountain King (AUS) 1904
1906 Solution (NZ) 1901
1905 Gladsome (NZ) 1900
1904 Emir (AUS) 1900
1903 Ibex (AUS) 1898
1902 Wakeful (AUS) 1896
1901 Hautvilliers (AUS) 1898
1900 Paul Pry (AUS) 1892
1899 Le Var (AUS) 1893
1898 The Grafter (AUS) 1893
1897 Delaware (AUS) 1890
1896 Newhaven (AUS) 1893
1895 Delaware (AUS) 1890
1894 Patron (AUS) 1890
1893 Loyalty (NZ) 1890
1892 Bungebah (AUS) 1885
1891 Marvel (AUS) 1886
1890 Carbine (NZ) 1885
1889 Abercorn (AUS) 1884
1888 Abercorn (AUS) 1884
1887 Trident (AUS) 1883
1886 Trident (AUS) 1883
1885 Nordenfeldt (NZ) 1882
1884 Sir Modred (NZ) 1877
1883 Legrand (AUS) 1880
1882 Sting (AUS) 1878
1881 Wellington (AUS) 1875
1880 Sweetmeat (AUS) 1875
1879 Baronet (AUS) 1876
1878 Chester (AUS) 1874
1877 Robinson Crusoe (AUS) 1873
1876 Malta (AUS) 1872
1876 Valentia (AUS) 1872
1875 Kingsborough (AUS) 1871
1874 Maid Of Avenel (AUS) 1870
1873 Hamlet (AUS) 1868
1872 Dagworth (AUS) 1868
1871 Tim Whiffler (AUS) 1862
1870 Tim Whiffler (AUS) 1862
1869 Glencoe (AUS) 1864
1868 The Barb (AUS) 1863
1867 Yattendon (AUS) 1861

Offline tontonan

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« 2014-Oct-02, 06:45 PM Reply #689 »
I have the right race all right.

What we see on Saturday is the gutted, buggered up version of the heritage race that died in 1978.

They stopped running the Craven Plate, Sydney's  principal WFA race of the Spring after 1978.  When they revived the race in 1984 it was a listed handicap and having gutted the race of its prestige it was returned to WFA conditions in 1987.  By 1994 it was made a Group 3 race.  In 2001 it was run over 1800m on the inner track as the Japan Trophy.

This was one of the great WFA races on the calendar.  A book - or at least a feature article - could be written on some of the fine renewals of the race through the ages.  In was still as relevant as ever in the 1970's as can be seen by the winners (and the placegetters) to that time.  What happened to the race was a travesty.  For that matter so was what happened to the St Leger. That was Australia's oldest classic.

You can't buy 100 years of history or the tradition and prestige that goes with it.  But you can squander it.

Offline Authorized

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« 2014-Oct-02, 07:49 PM Reply #690 »
The year Adventurous won, Did he beat Saintly ?

Offline tontonan

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« 2014-Oct-03, 02:32 PM Reply #691 »
And Donar.  So what ?

Under the rules of the Pattern Committee if the race sustained its quality wouldn't it have been upgraded from a Group 3 race by now ? 

My original question of how the race would have been graded in 1979 if it hadn't been shelved and reinvented as a listed handicap stands.  Comparable WFA races like the Caulfield Stakes received Group 1 status, and a strong argument could be made that the Craven Plate had just as strong, if not stronger historical credentials for Group 1 status than the Caulfield Stakes.

It was a crying shame because when the Derby was moved there was an opportunity to build the Craven Plate up as a centrepiece of the Spring meeting at Randwick with a little bit of creative programing.

I know this doesn't mean much but when the Craven Plate was shelved it 17 of its renewals had been won by Hall of Fame horses.  16 renewals Caulfield Stakes had been won by Hall of Famers, 16 Cox Plates and 26 Mackinnon Stakes.

Offline The Jackal

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« 2014-Oct-03, 02:47 PM Reply #692 »
And Donar.  So what ?

Under the rules of the Pattern Committee if the race sustained its quality wouldn't it have been upgraded from a Group 3 race by now ? 

My original question of how the race would have been graded in 1979 if it hadn't been shelved and reinvented as a listed handicap stands.  Comparable WFA races like the Caulfield Stakes received Group 1 status, and a strong argument could be made that the Craven Plate had just as strong, if not stronger historical credentials for Group 1 status than the Caulfield Stakes.

It was a crying shame because when the Derby was moved there was an opportunity to build the Craven Plate up as a centrepiece of the Spring meeting at Randwick with a little bit of creative programing.

I know this doesn't mean much but when the Craven Plate was shelved it 17 of its renewals had been won by Hall of Fame horses.  16 renewals Caulfield Stakes had been won by Hall of Famers, 16 Cox Plates and 26 Mackinnon Stakes.


You're  exactly right...... that's Sydney administrators for you.   :yes:

They could  :censored: up even the best of wet dreams.    :what:

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« 2014-Oct-03, 02:51 PM Reply #693 »
So Saintly was beaten in this race plus the Metrop and dominated the Cauldron.

Offline The Jackal

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« 2014-Oct-03, 02:53 PM Reply #694 »
So Saintly was beaten in this race plus the Metrop and dominated the Cauldron.

Yep, like Tie the Knot did?

Offline The Jackal

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« 2014-Oct-03, 03:00 PM Reply #695 »
So Saintly was beaten in this race plus the Metrop and dominated the Cauldron.

I think Ming Dynasty is the only horse in 40 odd years to win it and have any subsequent success in Melbourne.

It was upgraded from listed to Group 3 in 1993, God knows why, it's very definitely a listed quality race....... at best.

Offline timw

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« 2014-Oct-03, 07:35 PM Reply #696 »
I am no expert but it seems to me the degradation of city racing became complete with the introduction of benchmark racing.

Back in days or yore (my youth) good city handicappers or welter horses (C and D graders) would on odd occasions compete in the country and country standard horses (E & F graders) would only appear to race in 'greys' races or similar events or winter racing.  All the important races (eg the big handicaps) had decent fields (up to 24 at Randwick and Flemington). 

Now every E&F grader has the chance to compete for $100,000 or so in the city on Saturdays including some feature race days.  It might be good for owners and good for the TABS etc but I doubt it does much to encourage the standard of Saturday racing or the size or prestige of the fields in the open handicaps and beyond.   

Tell me if I am wrong.

Cheers

Offline timw

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« 2014-Oct-04, 05:54 AM Reply #697 »
DUAL CHOICE (AUS) 1967                                 
28 starts, 16 wins (5 x Group 1), 4 seconds and 3 thirds.  Win % 57.1, Place % 82.1.                                  
Retired with stakewinnings of AUD 152,830.                                   
Dual Choice passed Wenona Girl's stakewinnings of AUD 139,545 to head the list of mares stakewinnings among mares who raced exclusively in Australia.                                  
Dual Choice retired as Australia's second greatest stakewinning mare behind Wiggle (AUS) 1955 who also raced in the USA (raced as 'Wiggle II' in USA).                                   
                                 
TWO YEARS:  1969-1970  Starts 8:  6-0-1-1                                 
                                 
1st-17   4/10/1969.   Lg nk x 6L   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC Maribyrnong Trial Stakes   5f.   1005m.   8.4.   52.5kg   0.59.7.   Good, 6/4F.   Copy Cat 8.4 2/1 2nd
1st-9   11/10/1969.   1L x 3L   Caulfield, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VATC Debutante Stakes (Fillies)   5f.   1005m.   8.5.   53kg   0.58.9.   Fast, 5/4.   Copy Cat 8.5 10/9F 2nd
5th-6   1/11/1969.   6L x hd   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC Maribyrnong Plate   5f.   1005m.   8.5.   53kg   0.59.4.   Good,    Baguette 8.10 4/7F 1st
1st-16   13/12/1970.   5L x sht hd   Caulfield, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VATC Kooyong Hcp   5f.   1005m.   9.0.   57kg   0.58.2.   Good, 9/4.   Blue Honey 8.10 8/1 2nd
                                 
1st-11   1/01/1970.   3L x 6L   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC Stradbroke Hcp   6f.   1207m.   9.3.   58.5kg   1.09.9.   Good, 5/4F.   Remote Control 8.11 9/2 2nd
1st-7   21/02/1970.   3L x 1.5L   Caulfield, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VATC Merson Cooper Stakes   6f.   1207m.   8.7.   54kg   1.10.8.   Good, 1/1F.   Coalcliff 8.10 2/1 2nd
1st-5   7/03/1970.   2L x 4L   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC Sires' Produce Stakes (G1)   7f.   1408m.   8.7.   54kg   1.24.2.   Good, 8/13F.   Royal Show 8.10 6/1 2nd
3rd-15   21/03/1970.   2L x 0.5L   Rosehill, Sydney, NSW, AUS   STC Golden Slipper Stakes   6f.   1207m.   8.0.   51kg   1.12.7.   Dead, 5/2.   Baguette 8.7 5/4F 1st
                                 
THREE YEARS:  1970-1971  Starts12:  6-2-2-2                                 
                                 
1st-10   15/08/1970.   2.5L x 0.5L   Moonee Valley, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   MVRC Freeway Stakes    6f.   1207m.   7.8.   48kg   1.13.7.   Slow, 5/4F.   Swift and Sure 9.0 7/1 2nd
4th-11   12/09/1970.   1.75L x 0.5L   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC Ascot Vale Stakes   6f.   1207m.   8.10.   55.5kg   1.11.5.   Slow, 4/6F.   Eleazar 8.9 12/1 1st
1st-14   3/10/1970.   4L x 2L   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC Edward Manifold Stakes   8f.   1609m.   8.7.   54kg   1.35.8.   Fast, 4/1.   Sanderae 8.7 13/4 2nd
1st-10   10/10/1970.   3L x 1L   Caulfield, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VATC Caulfield Guineas (G1)   8f.   1609m.   8.5.   53kg   1.37.0.   Fast, 1/2F.   Eastern Court 8.10 7/1 2nd
1st-16   31/10/1970.    hd x 4L   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC Craven 'A' Stakes (G1)   6f.   1207m.   7.11.   49.5kg   1.09.0. (RR)   Good, 10/9F.   Tauto 8.13 13/4 2nd
3rd-13   7/11/1970.   4L x 0.75L   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC George Adams Hcp   8f.   1609m.   8.1.   51.5kg   1.35.2.   Good, 9/2.   Levian 7.3 12/1 1st
                                 
3rd-10   1/02/1971.   1.5L x 3L   Moonee Valley, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   MVRC William Reid Stakes   5f.   1005m.   8.4.   52.5kg   1.02.9.   Heavy, 2/1F.   Tango Miss 8.4 7/1 1st
1st-7   13/02/1971.   1.5L x 0.75L   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC Lightning Stakes   5f.   1005m.   8.4.   52.5kg   57.4.   Good, 4/1.   Tango Miss 8.4 1st
1st-13   20/02/1971.   3L x 0.5L   Caulfield, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VATC Oakleigh Plate (G1)   5.5f.   1106m.   8.8.   54.5kg   1.03.3.   Fast, 7/4F.   Tango Miss 8.2 13/4 2nd
2nd-15   6/03/1971.   1L x nk   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC Newmarket Hcp   6f.   1207m.   8.12.   56kg   1.10.1.   Fast, 9/4F.   Baguette 8.12 5/1 1st
2nd-16   15/05/1971.   1L x 1.75L    Morphettville, Adelaide, SA, AUS   SAJC Goodwood Hcp   6f.   1207m.   9.2.   58kg   1.12.8.   Dead, 6/10F.   Romantic Son 9.0 10/1 1st
9th-17   3/07/1971.   1.75L x hd   Doomben, Brisbane, QLD, AUS   BATC Doomben Ten Thousand   7f. less 68y.   1346m.   8.12.   56kg   1.19.2.   Good,    Baguette 9.2 6/4F 1st
                                 
FOUR YEARS:  1971-1972  Starts 8:  4-2-0-2                                 
                                 
1st-13   21/08/1971.   1.5L x sht hd   Moonee Valley, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   MVRC Freeway Stakes   6f.   1207m.   8.9.   55kg   1.12.1.   Good, 7/4F.   Eleazar 9.0 4/1 2nd
2nd-9   4/09/1971.   Nk x sht hd   Caulfield, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VATC Memsie Stakes   8f.   1609m.   8.9.   55kg   1.38.7.   Slow 1/1F.   Cyron NZ 9.3 14/1 1st
1st-11   11/09/1971.   2.5L x 2.5L   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC Craiglee Stakes   8f.   1609m.   8.9.   55kg   1.34.9.   Good, 7/4F.   Tauto 9.3 11/4 2nd
4th-7   13/10/1971.   1L x 2L   Caulfield, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VATC Chirnside Stakes   6f.   1207m.   8.9.   55kg   1.11.5.   Good, 1/5F.   Proud Toff 9.0 14/1 1st
                                 
1st-7   31/01/1972.   2L x 2L   Moonee Valley, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   MVRC William Reid Stakes   6f.   1207m.   8.11.   56kg   1.10.8. (CR)   Fast, 10/9F.   Baguette 9.0 7/2 2nd
4th-12   19/02/1972.   1.5L x nk   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC Lightning Stakes   5f.   1005m.   8.11.   56kg   1.00.7.   Heavy, 4/5F.   Zambari 9.0 8/1 1st
1st-16   26/02/1972.   1L x 0.75L   Caulfield, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VATC Oakleigh Plate (G1)   5.5f.   1106m.   9.5.   59.5kg   1.03.8.   Fast, 6/4F.   Royal Canvas 7.11 16/1 2nd
2nd-18   11/03/1972.   0.5L x 0.75L   Flemington, Melbourne, VIC, AUS   VRC Newmarket Hcp run as Malayan Racing Association Cup   6f.   1207m.   9.7.   60kg   1.09.3. (ERR)   Fast, 3/1F.   Crown 8.4 9/1 1st
« Last Edit: 2016-Jun-30, 08:18 PM by tontonan »

Online wily ole dog

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« 2014-Oct-04, 08:01 AM Reply #698 »
I am no expert but it seems to me the degradation of city racing became complete with the introduction of benchmark racing.

Back in days or yore (my youth) good city handicappers or welter horses (C and D graders) would on odd occasions compete in the country and country standard horses (E & F graders) would only appear to race in 'greys' races or similar events or winter racing.  All the important races (eg the big handicaps) had decent fields (up to 24 at Randwick and Flemington). 

Now every E&F grader has the chance to compete for $100,000 or so in the city on Saturdays including some feature race days.  It might be good for owners and good for the TABS etc but I doubt it does much to encourage the standard of Saturday racing or the size or prestige of the fields in the open handicaps and beyond.   

Tell me if I am wrong.

Cheers



Not sure about the quality mate but the numbers appear to be down for most meetings.

Offline The Jackal

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« 2014-Oct-04, 10:09 AM Reply #699 »
I am no expert but it seems to me the degradation of city racing became complete with the introduction of benchmark racing.

Back in days or yore (my youth) good city handicappers or welter horses (C and D graders) would on odd occasions compete in the country and country standard horses (E & F graders) would only appear to race in 'greys' races or similar events or winter racing.  All the important races (eg the big handicaps) had decent fields (up to 24 at Randwick and Flemington). 

Now every E&F grader has the chance to compete for $100,000 or so in the city on Saturdays including some feature race days.  It might be good for owners and good for the TABS etc but I doubt it does much to encourage the standard of Saturday racing or the size or prestige of the fields in the open handicaps and beyond.   

Tell me if I am wrong.

Cheers


I think there is much merit in what you say, but I also think many of these handicaps need a large stakes injection.
If the Metrop went back to 2600 and was worth 1 million dollars, it would draw a full field of greater quality as it's importance would increase in relation to qualifying for the other majors.
As I've said before, make all the major city cups worth 1 million and return them to their former distances and the cultural landscape would be returned to it's former glory. It would create greater incentives for larger sponsorship and more exposure for lucrative lead ups

The Epsom sits in the same bracket, needs a large injection of funds, there isn't another possible reason for it's demise, it isn't directly competing with any other race in Melbourne today so there is no reason why it shouldn't draw a better quality field. FFS, if Boban wasn't there, the topweight would be a 5 year old mare that hasn't won a race for 2 and a half years and hasn't won a race outside her own sex.



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