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Offline tontonan

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« 2019-Jun-13, 04:12 PM Reply #100 »
Tontonan

Done a quick stock take on internationals transferred to this thread.  John Henry and Spectacular Bid both on page 68 of the old thread not transferred to this thread.  Also I think the 'Rhinegold' in the index should be 'Rheingold'.

Cheers


Thanks Tim,  All fixed now.

I found some excellent profiles of American champions at http://www.jockeysite.com/stories/boldruler.htm for anyone interested.


Offline tontonan

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« 2019-Jun-14, 12:31 AM Reply #101 »
Northern Dancer (Can) is much too important to leave out of this collection.  He is arguably the most important thoroughbred of the 20th century.



NORTHERN DANCER (Can)
1961 bay horse   (15.1 hh )
Nearctic (Can) - Natalma (USA)

Foaled 27 May 1961 Windsfields Farm, Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Breeder: E. P. Taylor
Passed In for $25,000 as a yearling
Owner: E.P.Taylor  Windfields Farm, Ontario, Canada
Trainers : Horatio Luro

18 starts 14 wins 2 seconds 2 thirds $508,806

1964 Champion Three Year Old Colt in the USA & Canada, Canadian Horse of the Year.
Pensioned from stud in 1987.
Died November 16, 1990. Chesapeake City Maryland USA
Buried at Windfields Farm, Ontario, Canada

 
TWO YEARS: 1963  9 Starts : 7 wins-2 seconds-0 third   

WON-8   2/08/1963.   6.75L x 7.5L   Fort Erie, Ontario, Canada   2YO Maiden Special Weight   5.5f.   113 lbs   R Turcotte   T P Fleming   1.06.2.   Fast, $1.95F. 
2nd-11   17/08/1963.   4L x 2.5L   Fort Erie, Ontario, Canada   Vandal Stakes   6.5f.   109 lbs   P Bohenko   T P Fleming   1.19.0.   Fast, $7.55.   Ramblin Rod 122 1st   Brockton Boy 115 3rd
WON-7   24/08/1963.   1.25L x 3.5L   Fort Erie, Ontario, Canada   Summer Stakes   8f. (Turf)   115 lbs   P Bohenko   T P Fleming   1.43.4.   Soft, $2.65EF   Slithering Sam 115 2nd 
2nd-16   28/09/1963.   0.75L x 1L   Woodbine, Toronto,  Ontario, Canada   Cup and Saucer Stakes   8.5f. (Turf)   124 lbs   R Turcotte   H A Luro   1.45.6.   Firm, $2.60EF   Grand Garcon 113 1st   Jammed Lively 119 3rd
WON-6   7/10/1963.   1L x 26L   Woodbine, Toronto,  Ontario, Canada   Bloordale Stakes Allowance   8f. 70yds.   122 lbs   R Turcotte   H A Luro   1.42.0.   Fast, $1.45F.   Northern Flight 117 2nd   
WON-15   12/10/1963.   6.25L x 0.5L   Woodbine, Toronto,  Ontario, Canada   Coronation Futurity   9f.   122 lbs   R Turcotte   H A Luro   1.51.0.   Fast, $2.00F.   Jammed Lively 122 2nd   Pierlou 112 3rd
WON-6   6/11/1963.   2.5L x 1L   Greenwood, Ontario, Canada   Carleton Stakes   7f.   122 lbs   J Fitzsimmons   H A Luro   1.27.6.   Muddy, $1.30F.   Northern Flight 115 2nd   
WON-6   18/11/1963.   8L x 1.5L   Aqueduct, Long Island, New York, USA   Sir Gaylord Purse Allowance   8f.   124 lbs   M Ycaza   H A Luro   1.36.0.   Fast, $3.60.   Bupers 124 2nd   
WON-6   27/11/1963.   2L x 3L   Aqueduct, Long Island, New York, USA   Remsen Stakes   8f.   124 lbs   M Ycaza   H A Luro   1.35.6.   Fast, $1.25F.   Lord Date 112 2nd   Repeating 117 3rd
                                    
THREE YEARS: 1964  9 Starts : 7 wins - 0 seconds - 1 thirds (Excludes exhibition race as not counted by DRF) 
                                   

3rd-7   10/02/1964.   Hd x 2L   Hialeah Park, Miami, Florida, USA   Allowance   6f.   122 lbs   R Ussery   H A Luro   1.10.4.   Fast, $2.40.   Chieftain 122 1st   Mom's Request 113 2nd

(Exhibition (1st-3)   24/02/1964.   7L x 2.5L   Hialeah Park, Miami, Florida, USA   Special Weight (Exhibition race)   7f.   118 lbs   W Shoemaker   H A Luro   1.23.4.   Good, No betting   Chieftain 118 2nd   Trader 118 3rd)

WON-11   3/03/1964.   2L x 8L   Hialeah Park, Miami, Florida, USA   Flamingo Stakes   9f.   122 lbs   W Shoemaker   H A Luro   1.47.8.   Fast, $2.00F.   Mr Brick 122 2nd   Quadrangle 122 3rd
WON-7   28/03/1964.   4L x 2.75L   Gulfstream Park, Hallandale, Florida, USA   Mrs Florida Purse Allowance   7f.   122 lbs   M Ycaza   H A Luro   1.22.4.   Fast, $1.40F.   The Scoundrel 114 2nd   Troy Our Boy 120 3rd
WON-8   4/04/1964.   1L x 2.5L   Gulfstream Park, Hallandale, Florida, USA   Florida Derby   9f.   122 lbs   W Shoemaker   H A Luro   1.50.8.   Fast, $1.30F.   The Scoundrel 122 2nd   Dandy K. 122 3rd
WON-5   23/04/1964.   0.5L x 4.5L   Keenland, Lexington, Kentucky, USA   Blue Grass Stakes   9f.   126 lbs   W Hartack   H A Luro   1.49.8.   Fast, $1.20F.   Allen Adair 121 2nd   Royal Shuck 121 3rd
WON-12*   2/05/1964.   Nk x 3.75L   Churchill Downs, Louisville, Kentucky, USA   Kentucky Derby   10f.   126 lbs   W Hartack   H A Luro   2.00.0. (CR)   Fast, $4.40.   Hill Rise 126 2nd   The Scoundrel 126 3rd
WON-6   16/05/1964.   2.75L x hd   Pimlico, Baltimore, Maryland, USA   Preakness Stakes   9.5f.   126 lbs   W Hartack   H A Luro   1.56.8.   Fast, $3.10.   The Scoundrel 126 2nd   Hill Rise 126 3rd
3rd-8   6/06/1964.   2L x 4L   Aqueduct, Long Island, New York, USA   Belmont Stakes   12f.   126 lbs   W Hartack   H A Luro   2.28.4.   Fast, $1.80F.   Quadrangle 126 1st   Roman Brother 126 2nd
WON-8   20/06/1964.   7.5L x 4.5L   Woodbine, Toronto,  Ontario, Canada    Queen's Plate   10f.   126 lbs   W Hartack   H A Luro   2.02.2.   Fast, $1.15F.   Langcrest 126 2nd   Grand Garcon 126 3rd

*It is likely he held the Churchill Down's 10 furlong track record until Secretariat's 1973 Kentucky Derby. 

 

« Last Edit: 2019-Jun-15, 07:31 PM by tontonan »

Offline pwa54

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« 2019-Jun-14, 10:44 AM Reply #102 »
You're right about Northern Dancer, Tonto, it's hard to go past the view that he was the most important thoroughbred last century.

The only additions I've got are the tracks for the Sir Gaylord (Aqueduct) and the unnamed sprint in January 1964 was at Hialeah Park, Miami.

There's a book on him by Kevin Chong, titled Northern Dancer, The Legendary Horse that Inspired a Nation, although the title does seem to be a bit over the top.

Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2019-Jun-14, 11:32 AM Reply #103 »
You're right about Northern Dancer, Tonto, it's hard to go past the view that he was the most important thoroughbred last century.


I don't know about that.

Why wouldn't his granddaddy Nearco have justifiable claims to that title.

Not only did he sire Northern Dancer's dad Nearctic but also Nasrullah who had his own successful branch of the family, Bold Ruler - Secretariat etc

Offline pwa54

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« 2019-Jun-14, 11:45 AM Reply #104 »
JWH, I'd agree both he and Nearco were supremely influential. Maybe the fact that Northern Dancer was fertile for so long and around 80% of modern thoroughbreds have his blood might tip the scales in his favour but both have an amazing legacy.

This article is a good overview of Northern Dancer and his place in history

https://horsenetwork.com/2018/10/head-made-modern-thoroughbred/


Offline tontonan

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« 2019-Jun-14, 01:19 PM Reply #105 »

Thanks for the additional info PWA.  I have added it to the record. 

Kevin Chong's book probably doesn't seem over stated to a Canadian.  The horse was lauded as a national hero and was even given the keys to the city carved out of a carrot... which he promptly ate.  Someone made the point that Northern Dancer was a Canadian hero before the familiar maple leaf flag had been adopted. In fact his career coincided with the flag debate in Canada, and it is not that often that the Canadians shake down their loud and obnoxious neighbours but Northern Dancer did that too. 

As for him being the most influential thoroughbred of the 20th century, I did say 'arguably'.  ;)

Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2019-Jun-14, 01:25 PM Reply #106 »
pwa

By being the granddaddy of Northern Dancer then in my book Nearco deserves some of the regard that Norther Dancer is due.

My point is that he not only has Northern Dancer's deeds , but  also the deeds of Nasrullah - Bold Ruler and Secretariat on his CV.

Therefore if Northern Dancer scores a 10 then, ipso facto, Nearco must score higher. 

Offline timw

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« 2019-Jun-14, 02:01 PM Reply #107 »
I have Northern Dancer's complete record.  According to the DRF book his first 3 starts were all at Fort Erie and next 3 at Woodbine.  His first start in 1964 was on 10 Feb at Hialeah beaten a head + 2L by Chieftain over 6f at level weights (placed 3rd).  Then on 24 Feb he ran in an exhibition race for no prize and no wagering at Hialeah beating Chieftain by 7L at level weights over 7f. in a field of 3 in a quick time of 1.23.4 on a track rated good.  This race is not counted by DRF in its official record but is included in the list of races run.  He then won the Flamingo at his next official start on 3 March 1964.   He had 7 different jockeys in his 18 official starts. R Ussery only rode him when beaten by Chieftain and DRF notes the horse was bumped at the start. Nothern Dancer won 5 races later classified as Grade 1 races being Flamingo Stakes, Florida Derby, Blue Grass Stakes
Kentucky Derby and Preakness Stakes. 
I hope to unscramble the US abbreviations on the weekend and post the stuff so Tontonan can fix the record up.

Offline pwa54

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« 2019-Jun-14, 02:40 PM Reply #108 »
JWH, that's a good point. I've read more about Northern Dancer than Nearco so that swayed me but now having a look at Nearco, his contribution is massive.

Growing up mid-late last century in Australia, international racing and breeding wasn't covered that well in the press, at least where I lived, and there wasn't that much from memory in Racetrack and Turf Monthly, so much of the international material is fairly new. The German racing scene, for example, to me was a total unknown. Now reading a little more on Northern Dancer's Canadian reputation, I'll be more cautious in making sweeping generalisations in future!

Offline tontonan

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« 2019-Jun-14, 03:38 PM Reply #109 »
As always if anyone has a full or better record please post it.  I will massage the posts to incorporate it and delete what is duplicated. It has worked a few times on the other thread - a partial record is posted, additional information is forthcoming, the record is completed.  It should be what the forum is about.

Tim, the Wikipedia claims that the Vandal Stakes was ' run annually since 1956 at Woodbine Racetrack in Toronto, Ontario.' and is restricted to 2YO's bred in Ontario. It also claims that the Vandal Stakes was held at Fort Erie between 1970 and 1985 over 6 furlongs.  If that is so then it suggests the 1963 edition was run at Woodbine but curiously the 1963 race, which has been conducted at various distanmces from 5 to 7 furlongs, was also conducted at 6 furlongs.  Could this mean the race was actually held at Fort Erie ? 

Another interesting side fact is that EP Taylor, the millionaire horseman that owned Windfield Farms and bred Northern Dancer also owned Fort Erie racetrack.
It was announced Fort Erie would close to racing in 2012 but it has limped on.  However the Wiki article ends with,

" Dachshund racing was added to the track's schedule in 2018; the success of the first race held that year led to the addition of a basset hound race for 2019."    :what:
« Last Edit: 2019-Jun-14, 03:43 PM by tontonan »

Offline timw

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« 2019-Jun-15, 06:22 PM Reply #110 »
Tontonan - here is what I have on Northern Dancer from DRF publications.  Pick is apart as you see fit.                                     
Odds converted to Australian method of including $1.00 stake with the dividend.                                     
It is possible that in those races where he started as equal favourite as a 2YO he was bracketed with another horse owned in the same interests.                                    

The career record compiled by timw has ben transferred to the Northern Dancer profile above in Reply 102                              
« Last Edit: 2019-Jun-15, 07:26 PM by tontonan »

Offline tontonan

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« 2019-Jun-15, 07:02 PM Reply #111 »
Excellent Tim, thanks.

Offline timw

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« 2019-Jun-16, 06:10 PM Reply #112 »
On the issue of Northern Dancer's ancestors I dare to add that once we mention Nasrullah and his sire Nearco then perhaps it it is not too much of a stretch to note that one of Nearco's grand dams is Catnip a daughter of Spearmint and a grand daughter of Carbine.    Plucky Leige is another daughter of Spearmint that  turns up in pedigrees.  Interestingly Bald Eagle (USA) 1955 (12 wins including 5 later classfied as grade 1)  who started his career in the UK before a very successful career in the USA had both Catnip and Plucky Leige in his pedigree.   Cheers

Offline tontonan

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« 2019-Jun-17, 04:31 PM Reply #113 »
There are two other Australasian lines in the Dancer's pedigree through another son of Musket, Trenton (NZ).  Trenton sired Rosaline dam of Rosedrop who was the dam of Gainsborough.   Gainsborough appears on both sides of the Dancer's pedigree.

Offline timw

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« 2019-Jun-19, 08:19 PM Reply #114 »
Tontonan

I will keep my ere out for Gainsborough.

As we are sort of on the topic of famous international sires I stumbled on Bold Ruler's 4YO record in DRF's American Racing Manual of 1959. DRF voted him Best Sprinter of 1958.  This is interesting as he only had 2 starts over sprint distances winning over 6f and 7f before running 2nd over a 1 mile.  He then won his next 3 starts over 9f. and 10f. before finishing the year out 7th over 9.5f. All races were under big weights (60-62kg). I suspect the editors could not put him in front of Round Table (4YO - 1958 horse of the year with 14 wins from 20 starts) so they decided to sneak him in as best sprinter.  Gallant Man another top performer that also came out of the same foal crop beat Bold Ruler over the 8f. trip carrying 5 lbs less then went on to win the Hollywood Gold Cup that year.  Round Table and Bold Ruler never met as 4YOs.  It seems Gallant Man did not race against Bold Ruler.  Bold Ruler had the upper hand against Gallant Man winning 2 out of 3.

Cheers


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