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Sal Perna's, I smell a rat thread - Racing Talk - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: Sal Perna's, I smell a rat thread  (Read 41051 times)

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Online wily ole dog

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O.P. « 2013-Jun-19, 09:01 PM »
In light of the bloody farce that took place today I think it's time we started a thread on what we believe are the dodgy races or rides. Not bad rides but ones that look and stink like a rort.
Heaven knows, the stewards might even notice :whistle:
Feel free to add anything that you think stinks

First up is Mr  Corstens and Supreme Warrior

On the 15th of May @ Sandown this noble steed was buried away on the fence and not asked to win it's race by the jock. Apart from run up bums and into dead ends.  It blew from $9 to $11 on track. God only knows what happened on betfair. A stewards inquiry followed where they decided to do nothing despite noting that they gave the jock, Tom Sadler, "benefit of a grave doubt that his riding was culpable under the Rules of Racing" Of the trainer they oddly stated "Mr Corstens had a clean record with respect to this Rule" Perhaps turning a blind eye to the countless other pieces of "activity"

The horse was then scratched from the Valley and Rosehill over the coming weeks. Bugger all was invested pre post at the Hill

Jump forward to yesterday and Vorogue and myself notice the moves. As Vo wrote, " i couldn't help but notice something that sticks out like dogs testicles, on both Victoria and NSW tab's, someone has shown their hand EARLY, in both states while the pool isn't much, that race is SIGNIFICANTLY higher than the other races. And guess what ?

It's paying $1.04 on NSWTAB and $1.40 the win supertab, and fixed odds it's $4,


Not content with that plunge it was then backed into $2-50 today and duly saluted. No questons asked about the plunge by stewards.

Anyone else think that they are derelict in their duties to not ask questions?




« Last Edit: 2013-Jun-19, 09:04 PM by wily ole dog »

Offline ratsack

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« 2013-Jun-19, 09:03 PM Reply #1 »
pete should be here soon  :chin:

Online wily ole dog

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« 2013-Jun-19, 09:07 PM Reply #2 »
If he has any integrity he should be. This is the exact stuff he has been banging on about. I suspect being in melbourne, he will also turn a blind eye :chin:

Offline ratsack

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« 2013-Jun-19, 09:08 PM Reply #3 »
 :o

Offline D-G

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« 2013-Jun-19, 09:12 PM Reply #4 »
If RVL had any integrity, Mr Corstens would not be eligible for a trainers license.

As for Mr Perna, well, there is a shirt hanging on his clothes line with only one peg

Online wily ole dog

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« 2013-Jun-19, 09:13 PM Reply #5 »
If RVL had any integrity, Mr Corstens would not be eligible for a trainers license.



You have to laugh at the nudge nudge wink wink that went of when they said, "Mr Corstens had a clean record with respect to this Rule"   :lol:

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2013-Jun-20, 09:40 AM Reply #6 »


What can one say when the stewards take the tip from Lot's wife and never look back?

At a time when the RVL stewards are, among other things, persecuting a jockey not convicted of any offense to do with his riding and a trainer for simply passing on a package later revealed to contain cash, it is astounding that they cannot ever bring themselves to declare that they will, on Monday,  look back and re-consider if a horse winning on the day was ridden to win or not at its prior start.

Given the apparent regularity of the offense, it is astounding not only that no investigation ever takes place and that, to my knowledge, no one has ever been found to have run one dead, before winning, and penalized for doing so.

This offense -- and the insider trading --  has much in common with prior knowledge of a de-facto ring-in. 

Perhaps the forum could start a 'pillar of salt' thread to draw attention to apparent form reversals that are ignored by the stewards:  there were another two last Saturday -- Best Bets noted one usual leader having being surprisingly ridden back at its last couple of starts -- and there were some not surprised about a cup winner in Brisbane.

As for Leon Corstens, don't know him but, whatever he has done, one cannot help liking him when interviewed on TV.

[PS - from Genesis 19: The command was given ........... do not look behind you.........traveling behind her husband, Lot's wife looked back, thereupon turning into a pillar of salt.]


Online wily ole dog

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« 2013-Jun-20, 12:51 PM Reply #7 »
Good post Peter. I suggest we use this thread as your "pillar of salt" thread :beer:

Offline Noodle

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« 2013-Jun-22, 02:35 PM Reply #8 »
CENTENARY CLASSIC MILE

The biggest joke of a race ever.

Why didn't Collett lead on Thumbtacks at a walk? What was M Cahill doing on Someday? Can the stewards please do their job!

Online wily ole dog

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« 2013-Jun-22, 02:46 PM Reply #9 »
Theres been a few questions being asked of late about Cahill :chin:

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2013-Jun-22, 03:17 PM Reply #10 »


I see no point in including Queensland racing in the contenders eligible for this pillar-of-salt award -- suggest Sydney and Melbourne racing only.

Online wily ole dog

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« 2013-Jun-22, 03:36 PM Reply #11 »
Why?

Offline Noodle

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« 2013-Jun-22, 03:59 PM Reply #12 »
Great stuff Pete

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2013-Jun-27, 08:25 AM Reply #13 »


Product quality control: a matter of trust -- and misplaced trust


RVL is reported this morning as saying:

"People will not bet on a product they don't trust, so the integrity of racing is absolutely paramount" .

The trouble is the people do not know which races they cannot trust -- the people bet on all races because most are run fairly.

While RVL may well do better with more help from the police, RVL could do better already if it investigated and penalized contrived form reversals and the milking of the TAB pools by the related betting with inside information.

Some people are 'stealing' money from others with alacrity --  RVL itself could do much more to prevent that and, if it did, there would be less evidence for the police to intercept and not pass on.

The Lord helps those that help themselves -- but probalby no those caught doing so.




Offline dubbledee

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« 2013-Jun-27, 09:18 AM Reply #14 »
Easy solution to all this stuff: BAN betting on races.  :bulb:

Offline whispering

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« 2013-Jun-28, 02:05 AM Reply #15 »

Offline Authorized

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« 2013-Jun-28, 10:49 AM Reply #16 »

Offline Arsenal

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« 2013-Jun-28, 07:17 PM Reply #17 »
For those interested in the fine print 60 pages detailing Sal Perna's report recommendations and findings thanks to Matt Nicholls for providing a link on revered website www.justracing.com.au

http://www.racingintegrity.vic.gov.au/resources/7cb75fda-3c9b-40ad-9a03-f32f68201654/final_report_on_the_investigation_of_the_%27damien_oliver_inquiry%27_2012_by_racing_victoria_limited_%28rvl%29.pdf

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2013-Jun-28, 08:34 PM Reply #18 »


Racing people are betting people  -- and none would be betting on the sense of perusing 60 pages


Good people with good intentions but no ability are not what is required to expose the corruption of Australian racing.

We need a real mongrel -- what became of Helluva Mess who led the Untouchables against the Chicago crime gangs in the 1920s +.

Locally, if the reform job were given to Mrs. Woods boy, Jjimmy, the game would be transformed overnight: he did the NSW police before breakfast one day and cooked a few chooks for lunch.
 
The racing industry nationally needs stewards that are competent -- not stewards steeped in the old black arts of discretionary retribution after the horses have either bolted or stayed in the stalls -- and someone tells them 'what happened' with no proof -- as the police tapes are wont to do off the record.

The administration of Australian racing is a farcical display of amateur sleuths reliant on rumour and mocking disclosures over phone taps that come to naught in the way of useful evidence.

...............unfortunately, that does not stop people being persecuted on the basis of hearsay.


 

Online wily ole dog

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« 2013-Jun-28, 10:39 PM Reply #19 »
CENTENARY CLASSIC MILE

The biggest joke of a race ever.

Why didn't Collett lead on Thumbtacks at a walk? What was M Cahill doing on Someday? Can the stewards please do their job!


Backs up tomorrow


Offline Peter Mair

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« 2013-Jul-15, 08:40 AM Reply #20 »


[b Not good enough -- ]Pillar-of-salt award goes to Grafton stewards[/b]


Unlike Sal Perna and the stewards, Ken Callander smells a rat and is prepared to look back:


Inconsistency spoils it for everyone as Mr O'Ceirin's form reversal bears Grafton Cup riches

HOW'S this for a good look for racing? Mr O'Ceirin starts a $1.60 odds-on favourite at Moonee Valley on June 29 and runs an inglorious sixth of eight.

He then goes interstate and, less than a fortnight later, lands a $7 to $5 plunge to win the $150,000 Grafton Cup at probably the biggest bush racing carnival in Australia.

The stipes grilled trainer Ciaron Maher, who among other things suggested the removal of blinkers may have helped the horse.

However, no action was taken. Punters who backed Mr O'Ceirin at the Valley did not get a refund.

If Mr O'Ceirin produces such a glaring example of inconsistency again, action has to be taken. Otherwise punters will find something better to do with their money and leisure time than betting on racehorses.



The Grafton stewards report falls short of what the punters might expect in terms of intelligent questioning. As usual the 'explanation' relies on gear changes (tongue tie on and blinkers off) without any inquiry about the 'why' and 'why not' relative to' previous runs  -- and there is always a jockey change  and a 'great ride by the new jock' -- and similarly the suggestion that the horse 'choked down' when it lost is not explored and not consistent with the RVL stewards report which found 'no explanation' for the poor run:

S Arnold, rider of Mr O’Ceirin (NZ) which performed poorly advised that the gelding was beaten from the 800m and could offer no explanation other than he may appreciate a track with more give.  A post race veterinary examination of Mr O’Ceirin (NZ) failed to reveal any abnormal findings and a swab sample was taken for analysis.

Online wily ole dog

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« 2013-Jul-15, 08:46 AM Reply #21 »
Very similar to supreme warrior who was backed off the map after its "quiet" run. Do stewards bother to follow the money trail :mad:

Offline Gintara

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« 2013-Jul-15, 01:57 PM Reply #22 »
Ol'Pete have you bothered to look closer?

Someone round here (Shortster?) tipped that the horse would get rolled at MV due to the pace of the race which at a glance seemed right, last week without that pressure he duly salutes.

Sometimes you need to pay more attention and not just look at the position in the race book.

Offline Authorized

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« 2013-Jul-15, 03:47 PM Reply #23 »
Ol'Pete have you bothered to look closer?

Someone round here (Shortster?) tipped that the horse would get rolled at MV due to the pace of the race which at a glance seemed right, last week without that pressure he duly salutes.

Sometimes you need to pay more attention and not just look at the position in the race book.

I might be misunderstanding your comments Gin, but the pressure in the Grafton Cup seemed to be unrelenting, He was wide into the first turn and kept being pushed forward to race on a high pressured pace. Noth that was on that pace except the winner managed to be anywhere near the leading bunch on the line.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2013-Jul-15, 04:21 PM Reply #24 »
Unlike Sal Perna and the stewards, Ken Callander smells a rat and is prepared to look back

Ken Callendar's weekly whine. He has been whinging and whining under the guise of "the punter's pal" for many decades now.

Who on earth backs a horse solely on their last run to the exclusion of all other form. Quickest way to the poor house.

Yes. Last start aweful. But you don't have to go back that far to find a 2nd in the G2 Naturalism Stks, a 5th in the Listed Heatherlie Stks and a 4th in the listed Warnambool Cup.

Start before last beat De Fine Lago by 3.5 lengths giving him 3.5 kg. Next start he is beaten 9.1 lengths giving FDL 5 kgs over same course/distance/track condition. You are entitled to swear if you backed him last start.

But why would the trainer travel all the way up to Grafton if he didn't think the horse was going to perform closer to his best form? Was he going up to see the Jacaranda trees perhaps?

Bad run last start, but as we always have been taught, you can forgive a horse one bad run.

Peter Mair and Ken Callendar are cut from the same cloth. Serial whingers always looking to overstate a negative.

I haven't read KC's column this week. Has he had his weekly go at the ATC? Last week, him and Chris Nic. carried on and on about Chris Waller not getting recognition on the day he broke the record. Chris N. even suggested they should have been handing out Chris Waller masks at the gate. Does he have "a few roos loose in the top paddock"?

A couple of things for Chris and Ken to note:

i) Chris Waller hadn't actually broken the record at the start of the day, and for all the ATC knew he might not have on that day. Masks would have looked pretty stupid if he didn't.

ii) They honoured him at the next available meeting after breaking the record, as any normal race club would do.

Quality of racing journalism is falling off the cliff in recent years.


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