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Author Topic: Seasonal Champs  (Read 2553 times)

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Online wily ole dog

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O.P. « 2009-Mar-04, 10:33 AM »
Looking at the record of the Diva on another thread is it possible she was a Seasonal Champ.?

By that I mean she raced best in the spring?

Others have done that.

Durbdrige was a classic Autumn horse from memory


We know she won a few cups but in the Autumn she was beat by Karamazou, Old man, Mr Murphy

Got hammered by Lonhro in a Aust Cup, Sound Action in a Ranvet, Grand Zula in a BMW and staggered to the line to beat manawa King in a Sydney Cup


Who were other seasonal champs that you can recall
« Last Edit: 2009-Mar-04, 10:37 AM by wily ole dog »

Offline stuey102

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« 2009-Mar-04, 10:37 AM Reply #1 »
She won a Sydney Cup, Australian Cup and BMW in the Autumn didnt she?

So she didnt go too badly in the Autumn

Offline stuey102

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« 2009-Mar-04, 10:44 AM Reply #2 »
We know she won a few cups but in the Autumn she was beat by Karamazou, Old man, Mr Murphy


Karamazou beat her over 1400m when she first up after her first prep

Old Man was 2nd up in that prep over 1600m

Why didnt you talk about how Cest Le Reve, Smytzers Shuffle and Kattavia beat her over 1400m in the Spring? Or Liberty Rose and Monde Special 2nd up in that Spring prep?

Online wily ole dog

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« 2009-Mar-04, 10:51 AM Reply #3 »
Just throwing it out there for discussion stuey but she did gett hammered by Lonhro in a Aust Cup, Sound Action in a Ranvet, Grand Zula in a BMW and staggered to the line to beat Manawa King in a Sydney Cup


As I said, can you recall any that may have been seasonal champs.?

Do you think Durbridge was?

Offline stuey102

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« 2009-Mar-04, 10:55 AM Reply #4 »
And I was just responding to your discussion.

Off the top of my head I cant think of any seasonal champs since ive been following racing and to give you some indication of how long that has been it wasnt when Durbridge was racing.

Offline Authorized

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« 2009-Mar-04, 10:57 AM Reply #5 »
EFFICIENT

Online wily ole dog

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« 2009-Mar-04, 10:59 AM Reply #6 »
And I was just responding to your discussion.

Off the top of my head I cant think of any seasonal champs since ive been following racing and to give you some indication of how long that has been it wasnt when Durbridge was racing.



  emthup

Offline stuey102

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« 2009-Mar-04, 11:02 AM Reply #7 »
EFFICIENT

Hes never run in a suitable race in the Autumn.

Offline strawberry road

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« 2009-Mar-04, 11:32 AM Reply #8 »
Vo Rogue

Offline Authorized

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« 2009-Mar-04, 11:53 AM Reply #9 »
Vo Rogue and Durbridge are the two obvious ones, its interesting that they were both autumn horses, i wonder if it is to do with the longer break between autumn carnivals and spring carnivals, going from spring to autumn they have far greater residual fitness ?

Offline OldLarsy

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« 2009-Mar-05, 07:24 AM Reply #10 »
Winter - Rough Habit

Offline Jeunes

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« 2009-Mar-05, 07:35 AM Reply #11 »
Schillachi is another one that comes to mind. I think he won most of his races in the autumn / winter. I don't think he ever won a group 1 in the spring.

Offline manikato1

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« 2009-Mar-05, 07:57 AM Reply #12 »
But there aren't that many top races for sprinters in the spring, unless you could handle wet tracks (he couldn't) as the Manikato was then run in mid August.  His Spring record would probably look better today as he would have run in the Manikato in mid September on a firmer surface, and had the Linlithgow as a group 1, rather than the sponsors handicap being the group 1.

Offline OldLarsy

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« 2009-Mar-05, 08:12 AM Reply #13 »
Ironic that Manikato himself hated a wet track

Offline Sporty

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« 2009-Mar-05, 08:56 AM Reply #14 »
Royal Snack.... :p....pretty sure he won 3 moe cups....?

Offline BurntToast

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« 2009-Mar-05, 09:38 AM Reply #15 »
I think most Melbourne Cup horses are predominately targeted towards spring races - they only have a short campaign in the Autumn and then put away over the winter so they are ready to go, for what can be quite a long and hard campaign over the Spring.

I don't think it has to do with them being at their best during that season, just reflects what they are being targeted for.

Online wily ole dog

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« 2009-Mar-05, 09:49 AM Reply #16 »
Maybe the whole notion is a myth.

Vo smashed records in the sping & won in adominant fashion often . Yes, he did have a better record in the Autumn but that could be programming and targeting

Rough habit was best in Winter as the carnivals in brissy back then didn't have the same class of animal  as the spring

Maybe the Diva just had a bad prep or wasn't up the the level of those that beat her in the Autumn. Eg, Lonhro & Elvis etc

Offline Authorized

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« 2009-Mar-05, 12:08 PM Reply #17 »
Schillachi is another one that comes to mind. I think he won most of his races in the autumn / winter. I don't think he ever won a group 1 in the spring.


Were there any group 1 sprints available to Schillaci in the spring and if there was did he run in them ? The Manikato maybe ?

Online wily ole dog

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« 2009-Mar-05, 12:15 PM Reply #18 »
They may  have been G1's but the sprints over the carnival were usually group 2 wern't they?

Linlithgow, salinger etc?

Offline Authorized

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« 2009-Mar-05, 12:17 PM Reply #19 »
Salinger is a handicap so genuine group 1 horses would not aim at it, He'd have been weighted out of it.

Online wily ole dog

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« 2009-Mar-05, 12:20 PM Reply #20 »
Memsie, Moir, Chirnside, Marlboro cup?

 I think manikato ran in all of those in the spring.
May have carried 61kg in the marlboro?

Offline manikato1

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« 2009-Mar-05, 12:27 PM Reply #21 »
Is the Chirnside now the Schillaci?  1000m WFA during the Caulfield carnival?

Online wily ole dog

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« 2009-Mar-05, 12:28 PM Reply #22 »
Buggered if I know, they've buggered it  :biggrin:

Offline Max Manewer

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« 2009-Mar-05, 12:50 PM Reply #23 »
So.....do horses tend to peak in particular seasons ? This discussion certainly didn't answer the question, but I might  just run this problem through the number cruncher. I'm guessing but the winter/summer comparison might be a good place to start, and I wouldn't be restricting enquiries to "champs". No snobbery here.

Offline stuey102

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« 2009-Mar-05, 12:52 PM Reply #24 »
Wouldnt the Summer/Winter comparison come down to track condition more than anything else?


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