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Tabcorp, Tatts Group Creative Reporting - Racing Talk - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: Tabcorp, Tatts Group Creative Reporting  (Read 72952 times)

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Offline jfc

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« 2014-Oct-17, 06:34 AM Reply #25 »
One of the most disturbing confessions in the document is that the Premium turnover is declining significantly.

Use 8.8% of that euphemism "Other" as a guide.

I believe that's at least the 3rd time this admission has been made, so it's hardly a temporary glitch.

And who on earth would believe that those falling off the Premium Perch simply then go back to being non-Premium customers?

My bet is that some of the financially independent veteran ones would simply stop betting, as giving your hard-earned winnings back is a daft idea.

The rest would defect to competitors who may be:

Licensed or unlicensed
Australian or foreign
Larrikins or serious criminal gangs
Or even Premium beneficiaries who actually own rival outfits!

Tabcorp may have averaged 5 years of decent Turnover from then earlier, and could now have squandered 30 years of future Turnover!

But it's Long Odds On the Tabcorp genii who might have engineered this fiasco won't be returning their fat boni.


Offline jfc

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« 2014-Oct-23, 09:07 AM Reply #26 »
William Hill Q3 figures including Australia:

Turnover decreased thanks in part to Saundry.

YTD Operating Profit has grown 199%.

http://www.williamhillplc.com/~/media/Files/W/William-Hill/media/releases/2014pr/q3-ims-2014.pdf

Offline jfc

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« 2014-Oct-28, 04:28 AM Reply #27 »
RVL doesn't bother disclosing financial figure in media releases on its own site.

Instead it gives a selective briefing to John Stensholt.

Surely not from inside a hospitality tent?

So let's contrast its figures with that of Tabcorp over a similar period:


Turnover
-2.9% Tote Vic
-3.2% Tote NSW

+4.0% All Totes for Victorian racing!

If all of those figures are credible then what's going on?

Has Turnover on other States plunged significantly to compensate?
Did this Turnover hike come from other outfits than Tabcorp?



http://www.afr.com/p/lifestyle/sport/bookie_fee_hike_no_hurdle_racing_EegFb2PSFCBgPtBp0YPAFI

Offline jfc

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« 2014-Oct-28, 05:20 AM Reply #28 »
Those RVL figures indirectly reveal a staggering statistic for Victorian Racing.

Corporate (aka non-Tote) Turnover shares is now 34.7%.

Suggesting that Corporates have grown so much as to now exceed the biggest single state Tote!

And this is before we consider burgeoning Sports Betting!

This is a damning indictment on the established industry!

Tabcorp and Tatts have paid heaps for long-term Tote monopolies.

At this rate those monopolies will be worthless at monopoly contract end!

What where they thinking?

What was RVL thinking with its 50% joint venture with Tabcorp!



Offline jfc

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« 2015-Feb-05, 09:38 AM Reply #29 »
Tabcorp figures just out on the ASX.

Looks to be the the same sick story.

Once more that mysterious Other (aka Premium + Isle of Manipulaundering) turnover drops!

On another vein, it's easy to see that the effective Luxbet Rake is 6.88%.

Offline jfc

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« 2015-Feb-05, 12:51 PM Reply #30 »
Tabcorp seems to have gone to great lengths to not disclose how it's managed to lift TAB Racing Revenues by 4.3%.

So I guess it's up to me to blow the lid.

Look closer at those Luxbet figures.

It's Rake has surged from 5.59% to 6.88%.

A phenomenal 23% Hike!

Now, while Tabcorp don't disclose Turnover for Fixed Odds Racing, it's reasonable to assume a similar Rake Hike.

In other words, Tabcorp has successfully furtively impleted a grotesque Rake Hike to severely damage its Fixed Odds Patrons!

These Punters can thank V'landys and his Fletcher Benevolent Society initiative for shafting them.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2015-Feb-05, 02:47 PM Reply #31 »
These Punters can thank V'landys and his Fletcher Benevolent Society initiative for shafting them.

On behalf of punters, thank you Peter for Racefields legislation, and getting a better cut for the race clubs, especially country race clubs, and the ensuing increase in quality of these meetings   :biggrin:

Offline whispering

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« 2015-Feb-05, 11:14 PM Reply #32 »
In what world are you living PP, where has there been an increase in quality or field sizes... More prizemoney for the top end of town (IADD winning the race for the guy who put the rubber stamp on its increase to $4mil) hasnt helped in syd with 6-7 horse fields the norm for on average 2 races per sat metro meeting.

Carnival time is the only time people benefit from the quality increase, and guess who benefits there... breeders and big owners, not the small ones struggling with increased costs all around.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2015-Feb-06, 05:20 AM Reply #33 »
In what world are you living PP, where has there been an increase in quality or field sizes... More prizemoney for the top end of town (IADD winning the race for the guy

Whispering. "What world are you living PP" (sic) is not an argument. In fact if that is the best you can do then you are obvioulsy losing the argument before we start.

Have you got any figures to counter my argument?

As for field sizes, intuitively I feel as though they have increased. Let's check out a couple at random.....

Taree ran a meeting on this week in 2013, 2014 and 2105

2013: 74 starters
2014: 87
2015: 80

Wyong similarly has run a meeting early Feb over the past 3 years:

2013: 52 starters
2014: 75
2015: 80

The Rosehill Southern Cross meeting - 2013 the programming was different - I don't know which meet it was run at - wasn't in Feb

2014: 75 starters
2015: 81 acceptors thus far

There was a Canterbury night meeting in the first week of Feb in 2013. None last year but returns this year

2013: 62 starters
2015: 72 acceptors thus far

I'd say there is strong evidence to suggest that field sizes are increasing.

Can you produce a counter argument using the same methodology? (or are we just going to abuse each other if you find out that you cannot).

As for prizemoney, I think it has been well reported that there was a quantum increase in prizemoney several years ago. Racing NSW has stated that if they achieve taxation parity with Victoria then three will be another quantum increase in prizemoney. 5 year comparison shows:

Taree

2011: Base race $10k
2015: $15k

Wyong

2011: $16k
2015: $22k

Canterbury Night

2011: $27k
2015: $40k

Rosehill

2011: $70k
2015: $85k

Are you willing to concede that there actually have been significant prizemoney increases, and not jsut at the "top end of town"?

As for quality, if you can come up with a way of measuring quality can you let me know so I can use it on my form guide study.   :lol:

But I will say this. Almost every "regular" Saturday we get visiting interstate trainers sending their horses to Sydney. It is a vote of confidence in Sydney racing IMO and is great to see. Danny O'Brien, Mick Price, Bruce Hill, etc. often send a horse to Sydney if they see the right race.

Tony McEvoy and Sam Kavanagh moved their main operations to Sydney in recent years so I don't think they have a problem with the place.

Now if you have anything to argue, please do so without the personal references. Thanks.   emthup

Offline Stan Still

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« 2015-Feb-06, 07:29 AM Reply #34 »
Another TABCORP gem, announced yesterday by the ceo, because shareholders "like" dividends, that's a piece of historical speak there LOL, TABCORP is going to do a rights issue to shareholders to raise a few million so it can retain dividend levels. end result is a diluted share value but shareholders "like" dividends according to the ceo. Obviously this bloke would need a set of instructions just to run a hot bath.

Offline jfc

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« 2015-Feb-19, 11:43 AM Reply #35 »
Tatts Group ASX Reporting is even worse than Tabcorp's. An absolute disgrace.

However

-11.4 % Tote Sales = Tote is going down the gurgler. Just a matter of time before Totes disappear up their own clooca.
+27.9% Fixed Racing = a deceptive figure

+13.6% Fixed Sports = a clue to prove how deceptive that Racing figure is

+0.4% Wagering Revenue

If Wagering Revenue barely budged a nanometer, yet Sports grew 13.6%:

The surely Racing Revenue has dropped!

The unequivocal demise of Racing demonstrated here shows how brilliantly successful Rake Hikes coupled with Kickbacks to the unworthy have been!




http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20150219/pdf/42wq4g5r9kch70.pdf

Offline Beachy

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« 2015-Feb-19, 03:36 PM Reply #36 »

+27.9% Fixed Racing = a deceptive figure

That figure is right on the money

Offline jfc

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« 2015-Feb-19, 04:34 PM Reply #37 »
That figure is right on the money

Why on earth do I need to actually spell out why it's deceptive!

+27.9% seems to more than compensate for -11.4%.

But my further calculations show that Racing Revenue has actually dropped!

Quoting Sales is now deceptive, when you consider the undisclosed Kickbacks that muddy the waters.

Offline Beachy

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« 2015-Feb-20, 01:23 PM Reply #38 »
Why on earth do I need to actually spell out why it's deceptive!

+27.9% seems to more than compensate for -11.4%.

But my further calculations show that Racing Revenue has actually dropped!

Quoting Sales is now deceptive, when you consider the undisclosed Kickbacks that muddy the waters.


Fixed Price Racing sales have increased by 27.9%. It's a fact.

Offline jfc

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« 2015-Feb-20, 02:08 PM Reply #39 »
Fixed Price Racing sales have increased by 27.9%. It's a fact.
No one needs to read you repeatedly claiming that it's a fact.

The fact is that fact is deceptive.

Offline Beachy

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« 2015-Feb-21, 11:20 AM Reply #40 »
How so? The numbers are real

It's a fact

Offline jfc

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« 2015-Feb-23, 11:37 AM Reply #41 »
How so? The numbers are real

It's a fact
The key point is my calculation that Tatts' Revenue on Racing has fallen.

Neither you nor anyone else have challenged that.

But despite cautions you go on and on with some weird fixation about an inconsequential nonsensical point.

Some facts are deceptive.

Some real numbers are deceptive.

If you can't understand then you are a godsend for shonks who who thrive on such deceptive practices.

Offline jfc

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« 2015-Feb-27, 05:50 PM Reply #42 »
William Hill, whom I gather has Tom and SportingBet and another outfit here actually presents a decent report as to Australian activities.

It appears to have had a promising Half, which again augurs big problems for TattsGroup yet to be identified by local analysts.

+10% Turnover
+8% Revenue
+96% Profit
+21% Players
8.6% = Margin = Rake

The 8.6% Rake seems particularly impressive.

.....
Full year for William Hill Australia:

+18% Turnover
+41% Revenue
+106% Profit
9.3% Rake

Hard to believe the propaganda by Fletcher et al's glove puppets about Punters not able to get on.

The continuing surge in Turnover shows the overwhelming majority of Punters seem more than satisfied with Corporates such as these.

And a growing headache for Tabcorp and Tatts whose figures pall by comparison.



http://www.williamhillplc.com/



Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2015-Feb-27, 05:56 PM Reply #43 »
Full year for William Hill Australia:

+18% Turnover
+41% Revenue
+106% Profit
9.3% Rake

Hard to believe the propaganda by Fletcher et al's glove puppets about Punters not able to get on.

The continuing surge in Turnover shows the overwhelming majority of Punters seem more than satisfied with Corporates such as these.

And a growing headache for Tabcorp and Tatts whose figures pall by comparison.



http://www.williamhillplc.com/




Looks like all the whinging about Racefields was just that after all   :lol:

Plenty of bucks to be made betting on Australian racing, and making a fair contribution to "putting on the show".   emthup

Offline jfc

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« 2015-Feb-27, 06:09 PM Reply #44 »
Looks like all the whinging about Racefields was just that after all    :lol:  

Plenty of bucks to be made betting on Australian racing, and making a fair contribution to "putting on the show".    emthup  
I don't recall all that much whingeing about Racefields.

But plenty from V'landys in his consequent campaign to steal money from schools and hospitals that can be redirected to Fat Cats, Corporate Criminals and Drug Czars.

Anyway, with Racefields, Corporates now seem to have a convenient justification for deFletcherising their client base.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2015-Feb-27, 06:23 PM Reply #45 »
I don't recall all that much whingeing about Racefields.

But plenty from V'landys in his consequent campaign to steal money from schools and hospitals that can be redirected to Fat Cats, Corporate Criminals and Drug Czars.

Anyway, with Racefields, Corporates now seem to have a convenient justification for deFletcherising their client base.

Here "whinging" is defined as "taking legal action to stop Racefields", not to mention all the press releases and forum postings we got speaking negatively about Racefields.   :biggrin:

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2015-Feb-27, 06:35 PM Reply #46 »
But plenty from V'landys in his consequent campaign to steal money from schools and hospitals that can be redirected to Fat Cats, Corporate Criminals and Drug Czars.

"good Uncle Pete" (V'Landys) has obtained fair contributions from corporates and the government, and re-distributed this money to the racing industry. Especially pleasing is the better deal country racing in NSW is getting. This money flows through to the poorly paid in the rural racing industries, who then can spend some money on local economies that will provide for growth that will lead to more hospitals, schools, etc.

If he can get the NSW Govt. to accept a policy of equitable take-out as other states, this money flowing through to rural racing will increase. V'Landys is one of the few advocates for the enormous rural racing industry. No-one seemed to be going into bat for country racing until V'Landys came along.

Love him or hate him, he is a positive for racing in NSW.

If it were up to "bad Uncle Pete" (Mair), there would be no country racing in NSW.

Offline sobig

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« 2015-Feb-27, 06:36 PM Reply #47 »
Not only was there a heap of whinging jfc but even a court challenge take all the was to the High Court.

Offline jfc

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« 2015-Feb-27, 06:36 PM Reply #48 »
Here "whinging" is defined as "taking legal action to stop Racefields", not to mention all the press releases and forum postings we got speaking negatively about Racefields.    :biggrin:  
Don't buy your definition.

Corporates have every right to go through legal channels.

From personal experience V'landys' use of legal channels is vastly more cavalier. And suspect.

Coping with Racefields has been achieved by Corporates + TABs slugging Punters more through increased Rakes.

Offline jfc

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« 2015-Feb-27, 06:42 PM Reply #49 »
...
This money flows through to the poorly paid in the rural racing industries, who then can spend some money on local economies that will provide for growth that will lead to more hospitals, schools, etc.

If he can get the NSW Govt. to accept a policy of equitable take-out as other states, this money flowing through to rural racing will increase. V'Landys is one of the few advocates for the enormous rural racing industry. No-one seemed to be going into bat for country racing until V'Landys came along.
...
What utter rubbish!

V'landys has diverted way too much money to Jones and Messara, as well as insane expenses for his deranged Championships. Particularly in quarantining mediocre Internationals.


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