The Everest 1200m - Sydney 14/10 - Racing Talk - Racehorse TALK harm-plan harm-plan

Racehorse TALK



The Everest 1200m - Sydney 14/10 - Racing Talk - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: The Everest 1200m - Sydney 14/10  (Read 25160 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Authorized

  • Group 1
  • User 18
  • Posts: 31108
« 2017-Feb-12, 06:39 PM Reply #75 »
Surely, jfc, this is all part and parcel of this great sport we love.

It is simply a punt on slots.


Offline jfc

  • Group 1
  • User 723
  • Posts: 6516
« 2017-Feb-12, 07:57 PM Reply #76 »
Surely, jfc, this is all part and parcel of this great sport we love.

It is simply a punt on slots.
No!

No, it's not!

Punting on slots, is akin to Pokies, Keno, Lotto and other brain dead crap.

We should all scorn that.

But what we all should love and aspire to is rationally chasing our dreams.

Besides Rail and Janiak, most here would warm to to the highs of the Tears I Cry owner and trainer.

Moving closer to my focus, we can consider Bubba. Who's in a position to set me straight,  if necessary.

Circa late 60s he saw some punting opportunities and successfully exploited them until pesky computers reared their indominatable head. But by then he'd set himself up for life, and there aren't too many punters I've heard of, that can say that.


Back to the venture in question.

If you're among V'landys' cronies you might find ways of stitching things up in your favour.

Who cares.

Otherwise why would anyone else bother participating!

If I know what an edge Zeljko has over me and everyone in Totes, and I can't tread water  anymore. I'd pull my head in pronto.

The KPIs suggest many have already done that.

And if I'm up for a $2 million crap shoot against the V'landys illuminati I'd be exploring other propositions.

Unless I'm hampered by a spoilt brat upbringing that's perverted my ability to perceive and cope with expectations.


Offline Dave

  • Group 2
  • User 2322
  • Posts: 1006
« 2017-Feb-12, 09:42 PM Reply #77 »
When I talk about the romance of racing a perfect illustration would be the 2015 Melbourne Spring Carnival,  Prince of Penzance, Michelle Payne and Steve the strapper winning the Melbourne Cup as opposed to Winx winning the Cox Plate.......now Winx is a star, no doubt but outside the racing pages who even knows she exists? there is no romance involved, Champion multi Millionaire trainer and Jockey doing what they always do, winning big races........who really cares? Even punters just yawn and look at the next race.............but to prove the effect Michelle Payne, Stevie and Prince Of Penzance.....they are making it into a movie........and they didn't need a Champion horse to do it...........it could only happen in a Handicap! Now that's Romance!......and that is what puts racing on the front pages.........it did for nearly 150 years until they decided to turn to set weight baby races and WFA racing.....only for the purists...... and Breeders but you will never get a crowd of purists at the races.....and Breeders get in free!

Offline Authorized

  • Group 1
  • User 18
  • Posts: 31108
« 2017-Feb-12, 10:24 PM Reply #78 »
Jim

Winx spends plenty of time on the front and very back page.

As far as I know Waller built himself up from nothing.


Online PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 20171
« 2017-Feb-12, 11:58 PM Reply #79 »
Jim

Winx spends plenty of time on the front and very back page.

As far as I know Waller built himself up from nothing.

As did Tommy Smith and a heap of other characters.

.......now Winx is a star, no doubt but outside the racing pages who even knows she exists?

As I was saying elsewhere, the quality of Social media seems to be dropping very quickly into the abyss with all sorts of exaggerations made unchallenged to make a point. And I'm not really sure what the point trying to be made is.

Does anyone know for a fact that Michelle Payne is some destitute who drives around in a beaten up old Datsun 180B? The Michelle and Stevie story was great, but what about all the Cups won by the millionaire Lloyd Williams (who wasn't self made but got a leg up from his good mate Kerry Packer). Funny how they get left out of the story telling.

For the record, by the time your horse starts in the Melbourne Cup, you have paid around $50,000 in fees:

Following the allocation of weights, the owner of each horse must on four occasions before the race in November, declare the horse as an acceptor and pay a fee. First acceptance is $960, second acceptance is $1,450 and third acceptance is $2,420. The final acceptance fee, on the Saturday prior to the race, is $45,375.

The entry fees for a normal race at tomorrow at (say) Randwick are

METROPOLITAN
(Effective 1/10/2014)
* Nomination: Free
* Non-Acceptance: $120
* Scratching (with Vet Certificate): Free
* Scratching (without Vet Certificate): $250
* Scratching prior to 9am Thursday for Saturday metropolitan meetings (without Vet Certificate): $125
* All Riding Fees paid by club.


Remind me again about elitism?

I don't mind people criticising things - it is free speech.

But at least be consistent across he board if you are going to use the elitism line otherwise you are looking a bit hypocritical.

The VRC and the Coke snorters at Channel 7 absolute fawn over the rich and famous in their promotionals for the Melbourne Cup week. Yet this idea, Everest, is somehow exclusively elitist. Gimme a break   :lol:

Online PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 20171
« 2017-Feb-13, 12:20 AM Reply #80 »
Racing NSW seem to be getting it from both sides following the announcement.

There is the "elitist" argument propagated by the Herald Sun, GIX and other publications.

Yet Winfried Engelbrecht-Bresges looks down his nose at the idea calling it, somewhat derogitarily a "sweepstakes" race:

"The Hong Kong Jockey Club has no intention of following other jurisdictions into the major sweepstake race business"

http://www.sportstradingaustralia.com.au/1/category/hkjc/1.html

So which one is it?

Another major critic of the concept is the Racing Bitch. Maybe the Racing Bitch should listen to their idol Winfried Engelbrecht-Bresges a bit more.

There was an article in Racing Bitch that gave me a laugh. titled

THE MAN THAT IS WINFRIED ENGELBRECHT-BRESGES

They preface their sycophancy by saying:

"And without sounding like some fawning sycophant.."

Then proceed to become the biggest fawning sycophant on the planet.

https://racingbitch.wordpress.com/2016/11/29/the-man-that-is-winfried-engelbrecht-bresges/

Maybe the Racing Bitch should consult her guru on the best way to attack the enemy. Dismiss the race as a sweepstakes race? Or call it elitist? You can't have both.



Offline Authorized

  • Group 1
  • User 18
  • Posts: 31108
« 2017-Feb-13, 12:59 AM Reply #81 »
Obviously they can.

It is a sweep stake the basic manner that racing started post match races.

And as the sweep is so high it is clearly elitist.

Offline Dave

  • Group 2
  • User 2322
  • Posts: 1006
« 2017-Feb-13, 01:27 AM Reply #82 »
PP both are correct, it is a sweepstakes race.....but only for an elite group of people who can afford a ticket....the arguments are not mutually exclusive

just like buying a lottery ticket, someone will win..........at the start Waller struggled and he had some luck.......there was romance......but the romance is long dead......he is now a King.... we shouldn't want anyone getting that big, it ain't healthy for the industry as a whole..........he is not really a horse trainer any more anyway, he is a CEO of a big assembly line factory....where's the Romance in that? the bigger question is why are you sticking up for a failing system? Even with Winx, she is more than a Champion, she is freakish, never doubted that..........but if/when she is beaten the balloon will deflate, why does racing need freaks to get on the back page?................we could have Romance that would make the back pages all the time.................Trainers should have to prove they can train the number of horses they claim to have on their books, I know for a fact some don't, they farm them out......when you train a horse that should not mean you pay some one else to tell you how it's going so you can pass that on to the owners and the Public, it should be a hands on business......that is not a restriction of trade, it is just making them do what they claim to be doing anyway!
Handicaps help make it a level playing field by bringing the ones with all the money and the best horses back to the field, they also produce the best betting races and races that are more truly run.............ain't that better for punters? which in turn must be better for funding racing! everybody wins

The other point that should be looked at seriously if we truly want crowds(Punters and not drunks) back at the races.....is not charging Bookies to operate on course(a tax free zone) of course they would still pay income tax like everyone else, just no betting taxes/charges, that way they could offer very competitive prices to punters.......... in fact they should be paid an appearance fee as they were a huge attraction why punters were there in the past.............who cares how much a meat pie costs.....no one ever went to the races to buy a pie!

I could not believe my eyes watching a promo for racing the other day.......they had a football passing competition for the kids?  telling the kids when you grow up go to the football, not the races!!!! do they do that at the Tennis? Golf? Tiddlywinks? it is the most self deprecating sport or activity on the planet......and we wonder why it is dying on the vine!

Offline Authorized

  • Group 1
  • User 18
  • Posts: 31108
« 2017-Feb-13, 11:05 AM Reply #83 »

Apollo Stakes: Forget the gimmicks, racing needs champions like Winx

Max Presnell 
Published: February 10, 2017 - 6:11PM

Winx is the best drug-free racehorse in the world because US superstars Arrogate and California Chrome were loaded up on home territory with Lasix, the diuretic and performance enhancer.

The situation again came to light when Arrogate scored in the recent Pegasus World Cup when horses that didn't have Lasix in their system were allowed a five-pound (2.5kilograms) allowance. Only one, outsider Eregon, took advantage. Alas a tow truck would have been more useful to Eregon as he didn't complete the event.

The Australian Turf Club and Racing NSW  are set to follow the Pegasus model, but not the Lasix allowance. Lasix is barred on race day in Australia. Surely winning without it should carry more kudos than dirt triumphs with it. Yet the recent Longines World's Best Racehorse assessment rated it superior, with Arrogate (134) and California Chrome (133) being placed above Winx (130), which was named best grass horse.

The ratings are compiled under the auspices of the International Federation of Horseracing Authorities by officials and handicappers representing the five continents, who compile the order by agreeing on the rating for each horse.

Even US promoters admit Lasix gives about a two-length advantage, a start Arrogate possibly could have comfortably given away in some of the races reviewed. Also, American horses have done well without it in other countries.

Still grass has more substance than dirt because of the stricter drug enforcement in jurisdictions, including Australia, where, in Sydney anyway, industry leaders are getting onto the Pegasus bandwagon with a huge prize for The Everest, introduced over the Randwick 1200m next spring for a $1.8 million entry fee for three years.

My personal poll conducted last week had seven against over three in favour. A major bookmaker decreed 100-1 about it ever being staged, but  then added: "Don't use my name." 

Self-funding was a major point in favour, but the media exposure was also emphasised and supported by Ray Paulick, who has an influential racing internet site in the US. Perhaps betting turnover was down on the Pegasus, but Paulick reported it was highlighted on all the major media outlets, which only usually concentrate on the Kentucky Derby and the Breeders Cup.

So far, The Everest has ticked the publicity box at a time when racing is looking for a saviour, even greater than Winx. 

Even racing on the streets of London is being mooted. Me? I'd rather bet at Birdsville. 

Saturday's meetings at Royal Randwick (now postponed due to the extreme heat) and Caulfield are what the Aussie turf is all about: top major events and excellent supports. Maybe Winx had been unbackable in the Apollo Stakes at Randwick in any case, despite the strong field, which included the outstanding Hartnell.

I tipped Hartnell to down the mare in the last Cox Plate. The result didn't come as a surprise but it was so easy. Seeking an answer, trainer John O'Shea was approached. "Moonee Valley is her track, not Hartnell's," he replied.

Now O'Shea wasn't suggesting Hartnell was going to prove superior to Winx on any circuit, even the streets of London, but he would have been better at Randwick. Would I have had an interest on him today? Nah, Winx would not have been trumped, a situation that arose when the US president was enticed into buying a horse.

Paulick related on ABC News Radio's Hoof On The Till that Donald Trump wouldn't pay unless it was called "DJTrump". Connections agreed. He didn't settle anyway and  "DJTrump" never raced.


Online PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 20171
« 2017-Feb-13, 11:46 AM Reply #84 »
My personal poll conducted last week had seven against over three in favour. A major bookmaker decreed 100-1 about it ever being staged, but  then added: "Don't use my name."

Exaggerations. Negativity. (Presnell is a Victorian native who was anti V'Landys during both Racefields and The Championships initiatives). You are quoting someone who exaggerates things.

Will that bookie, (if he really exists and isn't a figment of Max's imagination) please contact me personally and offer me the 100-1?

Presnell has gone from being a useful journalist to someone whom I avoid reading lest I slit my wrists after reading one of his pieces.

Offline JWesleyHarding

  • Group 1
  • User 231
  • Posts: 18098
« 2017-Feb-13, 12:04 PM Reply #85 »
"Presnell is a Victorian native"

Are you sure of that?

When did he relocate to Sydney?

Offline nemisis

  • Group3
  • User 2461
  • Posts: 793
« 2017-Feb-13, 12:26 PM Reply #86 »
My personal poll conducted last week had seven against over three in favour. A major bookmaker decreed 100-1 about it ever being staged, but  then added: "Don't use my name."

Exaggerations. Negativity. (Presnell is a Victorian native who was anti V'Landys during both Racefields and The Championships initiatives). You are quoting someone who exaggerates things.

Will that bookie, (if he really exists and isn't a figment of Max's imagination) please contact me personally and offer me the 100-1?

Presnell has gone from being a useful journalist to someone whom I avoid reading lest I slit my wrists after reading one of his pieces.
PP7,  You can't be serious.
Max Presnell is a least a journalist of some conviction.

I suggest you look up the journalist code of ethics.
The first thing you will see is "truth and the public's right of information"

You are sounding like you have signed Racing NSW's "nothing negative" contract.





Offline dean

  • Listed
  • User 2423
  • Posts: 274
« 2017-Feb-13, 01:33 PM Reply #87 »
Agreed Nemisis. Must have signed the form or is the CEO'S love child. Need a CEO who is not a doormat for the foreigners who control the breeding Industry. If you have a look how they treat the lesser lights in their home Countries you get an idea of what value these individuals are to Australian society.

Offline tontonan

  • Group 2
  • User 106
  • Posts: 3377
« 2017-Feb-13, 01:53 PM Reply #88 »
This is getting out of hand...


Offline Gintara

  • Group 1
  • User 16
  • Posts: 12158
« 2017-Feb-13, 03:33 PM Reply #89 »
.

For the record, by the time your horse starts in the Melbourne Cup, you have paid around $50,000 in fees:

Following the allocation of weights, the owner of each horse must on four occasions before the race in November, declare the horse as an acceptor and pay a fee. First acceptance is $960, second acceptance is $1,450 and third acceptance is $2,420. The final acceptance fee, on the Saturday prior to the race, is $45,375.


Totally different PP and you know it.

Besides, you are paying 90% of the entry fee about 3 days prior to the event, not 3 years in advance.

I hope it succeeds, I really do but it just has that smell about it to me.

Online PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 20171
« 2017-Feb-14, 03:01 AM Reply #90 »
Totally different PP and you know it.

Besides, you are paying 90% of the entry fee about 3 days prior to the event, not 3 years in advance.

I hope it succeeds, I really do but it just has that smell about it to me.

Don't mind responding to thoughtful posts - those that I don't respond to - well what can I say - get your negative heads out of your arse  :bleh:

In response to you Gin, I was addressing those who say that the Everest is "elitist".

Surely a race where you pay $50k for an entry fee could be termed "elitist"?

Of course the proposal for the Everest is "elitist" like just about everything else in racing.

Spending $200k on a yearling at MMs that is not going to win. Spending $425k on a slot in a $10 million race. Paying $50k for an entry into the Melbourne Cup and rubbing shoulders with Channel 7 coke snorting celebrities, Lloyd Williams and the Housewives of Melbourne sipping champagne in the sponsor's tents. I'd call them all elitist, especially the latter.

You are not going to tell me that Channel 7 and the VRC to not market to people trying to think of themselves as "high society" when they visit Flemington on Cup Day? So you don't call that "elitist"?

Online PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 20171
« 2017-Feb-14, 03:16 AM Reply #91 »
PP7,  You can't be serious.
Max Presnell is a least a journalist of some conviction.

I suggest you look up the journalist code of ethics.
The first thing you will see is "truth and the public's right of information"

You are sounding like you have signed Racing NSW's "nothing negative" contract.

Well I don't agree.

He was brought up as one of the journalists who had a right of "entitlement". His pathetic support of that bloke who resigned from the Telegraph because he thought his view was more important than anyone else....what's his name again...having trouble remembering. Well he is a nobody now. Unfortunately he took his son down with him.

Ken complained to the ABC Media Watch whose lawyers agreed with the paper - pretty rare that one

http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s4238016.htm

Here is Presnell with the "fake news" that Michelle Payne was snubbed by just about everyone who isn't Max's mate - Michelle came out later and said she was embarrassed by reports like this.

Anyway mate - I don't think I'm in a minority here

https://www.punters.com.au/forum/horse-racing/Max-Presnell-loves-Bart-Cummings-and-hates-anythinganyone-from-UK_64884/

http://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/max-presnell_topic48983.html

And blow me down look who is giving it to Max here on Racing And Sports - unless of course there are two of 'em   :lol:

Author: Tontonan

Max is way past it. He clearly wouldn't know a good horse if it bit him on the bum. What was the point of his yabbering anyway ? Did it inform us of anything ? Did it help us pick a winner or appreciate the quality of the horses ? No, it was just a flatulent wind and you can get that in any racecourse bar.

Time to retire.


https://www.racingandsports.com.au/en/forum/displayMessage.asp?order=&mid=4649&sum=1&pageno=2

So quote away with your Max columns - they mean nothing to me and a heap of other people - just another "professional whinge" from a  very bitter and negative old man.

Online PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 20171
« 2017-Feb-14, 03:42 AM Reply #92 »
"Presnell is a Victorian native"

Are you sure of that?

When did he relocate to Sydney?

I think he was pretty young.

Did you know he is a movie star Geoff?

He has an entry on iMDB.

You can read his extensive biography and wonder at his list of achievements

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2129190/

Offline nemisis

  • Group3
  • User 2461
  • Posts: 793
« 2017-Feb-14, 08:35 AM Reply #93 »



PP7
I could give you Ray  "Caruso" Thomas.

He's the star from CSI Racing NSW
His investigative skills are excellent.

Online PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 20171
« 2017-Feb-14, 10:23 AM Reply #94 »


PP7
I could give you Ray  "Caruso" Thomas.

He's the star from CSI Racing NSW
His investigative skills are excellent.

No no no nemisis, You can't fool me. That is not a picture of Ray.

Ray is far more handsome.   :lol:

And besides, Ray has not received the baseline discreditation of any jounalist i.e. having your face sprayed with "asp poison" by Tonto.

Similar to Max, I carry the scars of Tontanan's asp venom on my face and am a "discredited social media commentator"  :tears:

I can feel another dose coming on.


Offline nemisis

  • Group3
  • User 2461
  • Posts: 793
« 2017-Feb-14, 11:36 AM Reply #95 »
 PP7
 I must say Tontonan's little offering above was very clever and funny.
 Still gets a grin out of me.

Offline tontonan

  • Group 2
  • User 106
  • Posts: 3377
« 2017-Feb-14, 04:40 PM Reply #96 »
Gee.  I was going to ask if PP7 was the bloke with the horn standing behind Pete  ...   but maybe I shouldn't.   

I just thought it was good for a giggle.    I have always hated that song.

Online PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 20171
« 2017-Feb-15, 01:15 AM Reply #97 »
Gee.  I was going to ask if PP7 was the bloke with the horn standing behind Pete  ...   but maybe I shouldn't.   

I just thought it was good for a giggle.    I have always hated that song.

The guy on our right is Glenn Miller is it not? I was getting excited because there is the Glen Miller Hcp at Randwick tomorrow - alas Glen has only one 'n'.

Agreed Nemisis. Must have signed the form or is the CEO'S love child.

After that insult Dino you have lost my respect and will have no sway with me


Offline turfdeli

  • Group3
  • User 587
  • Posts: 817
« 2017-Feb-20, 05:44 PM Reply #98 »
Just putting the much talked about ad here. Of course, the social media negative chatterers are just unappreciative of the simplicity and brilliance.

https://twitter.com/SkyRacingAU/status/832518475809558528

Offline Authorized

  • Group 1
  • User 18
  • Posts: 31108
« 2017-Feb-20, 11:42 PM Reply #99 »
Just putting the much talked about ad here. Of course, the social media negative chatterers are just unappreciative of the simplicity and brilliance.

https://twitter.com/SkyRacingAU/status/832518475809558528

  :lol:  It is atrocious, I doubt even open minded supporters of the race care much for the advert.


BACK TO ALL TOPICS
Sitemap