Racehorse TALK

Thoroughbred Racing Talk => Racing Talk => Topic started by: jfc on 2019-Oct-17, 06:33 PM

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-17, 06:33 PM
On now 730 NSW time on ABC.

Enjoy.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-17, 07:25 PM
V'landys certainly got a guernsey.

Seems to me it is not that difficult to track abattoir equine activity. So who's slipped up?

Twitter views fairly clear.

https://twitter.com/hashtag/abc730?src=hash

https://iview.abc.net.au/show/7-30
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-17, 08:31 PM
If it trends, Vlandys will have a fit.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-18, 06:29 AM
It's out-trending Goldblum which is quite an achievement.

Meanwhile consider V'landys' effort as reported by one outlet under his control.

Who is stupid enough to swallow his crap about being under resourced!

Not only is horse tracking easy it consumes minimal resources.

It costs virtually nothing for an abattoir or sale yard to send even just the unique serial number or brand of every horse processed that day to a national registry.

And no more for V'landys' subjects to immediately follow up on anomalies by registered participants.

Imagine how many of our resources he squanders on battling to deface national monuments.

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/7-30-report--the-final-race----racehorses-allegedly-being-illegally-slaughtered-20191017
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-18, 06:45 AM
And on ABC news, right on cue, Racing Australia CEO Barry O'Farrell argues that a national horse registry should be established to help police these practices.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-18, 08:06 AM
I stated here emphatically years ago that this issue would screw racing, and that we were but one episode of 4 corners , or in this case 7.30, away from total exposure of the farce that is "after racing "care.
And so, the time is here.
Total revamp of numbers, breeding , racing rights and after career care is required.
As usual here, crickets chirp around here,  when we , race lovers, are "busted" for our wilfully ignorance or denial.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-18, 08:54 AM
Racing Australia's response has this conclusion.

A National Horse Register would fill this gap, allow federal and state authorities access to ownership and location information and help improve equine welfare outcomes nationally.

It could also further strengthen Australia’s biosecurity regime which is critical in reducing the risk of exotic disease and pest outbreaks.


I certainly concur with that, and imagine this would also be helpful in cases of bioterrorism.

But why didn't Racing Australia press for this obvious facility much much earlier?

And why does the Federal government need to wait to be pressed!



https://www.justhorseracing.com.au/news/australian-racing/racing-australia-responds-to-abcs-horse-racing-report/556015
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Arsenal on 2019-Oct-18, 09:53 AM
A shocking expose of animal cruelty the ABC 7.30 report is very disturbing ......so far the first to respond from any of the state control bodies  Qld Racing Minister Stirling Hinchcliffe is sending bio security officers to the Caboolture abattoir ......despite the rules and regulations once a horse is sold outside the racing industry to private buyers some possibly affected by drought these people are not subject to the conditions expected of racing personnel.......to be effective inspectors or stewards will now be obliged to attend knackeries and check for freeze branding and/or micro chips on livestock as well as the identity of consignees ......Peter V'Landys at least had the courage to face the camera and attempt to answer her questions ...according to Caro Meldrum Hanna QRIC issued a statement reiterating their welfare policy ...which obviously well intentioned hasn't stopped the slaughter of both harness and thoroughbreds ...in some cases whose flesh is turned into mince to feed the dishlickers...and some exported overseas for human consumption.

Warning very disturbing viewing on the link below.

https://www.abc.net.au/7.30/the-dark-side-of-the-horse-racing-industry/11614022


Giddy Up :beer:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: napes on 2019-Oct-18, 10:33 AM
What a load of crap.

If you go home to a steak tonight then don't carry on about horses being killed.

If you have a dog or cat you feed, don't carry on about horses being killed.

If you have ever set a mouse trap, don't carry on about horses being killed.


The more we pander to these beat ups the more ground we lose. Until the  :crap: hits the fan and we end up with someone like Trump in power.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-18, 11:07 AM
WTF has setting a mouse trap got to do with what we saw last night.?
All sentient beings are up for grabs hey?
A cow is a horse is a mouse is a who cares?
Joe Public will not think like that.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Oct-18, 11:24 AM

The more we pander to these beat ups the more ground we lose.


 :thumbsup:

I'd love someone to stand up and say it like it is. Yes some horses end up at the knackery, yes we try to minimize it from the industry by XYZ etc. but as long as the animals are dealt with ethically then where's the problem? Push it back and say deal with it.

It's time we pushed back against the 'over reach' into peoples lives.


Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-18, 12:25 PM
:thumbsup:

I'd love someone to stand up and say it like it is. Yes some horses end up at the knackery, yes we try to minimize it from the industry by XYZ etc. but as long as the animals are dealt with ethically then where's the problem? Push it back and say deal with it.

It's time we pushed back against the 'over reach' into peoples lives.




I disagree with you. Everest and MC carnival are usually attended by the younger generation and big sponsors. Most of them are against cruelty of any sort to animals even though they usually dine on some of them during the days.

The issues is if racing wants them to attend, they have to pander to them or only have the older generation who can accept knackeries etc as a way of life.

So if you want the money, you pander to the trends of modern society. In a world of influencers etc, Racing has to move with the times or just live in the older world.

Before I get crucified, I do like meat and not a tree hugger but I have to accept life is so different to years ago. Racing has to adapt too.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Oct-18, 04:15 PM
In think you misinterpreted Jeunes.

Absolutely we need to do & be seen to be doing the right thing, there is not place for cruelty.

That said what we define as cruelty isn't the same as the 'activists' as their definition is horse racing it's self! We could put in worlds best practice for after career care and they still wouldn't be happy until the racing industry is closed down.  :shutup: These are the same people who think greyhounds are forced to run  :wacko:

Hence the need to stand up and point out what is happening, it's lawful, it's best practice - deal with it. That will win the court of public appeal when you point out the flaws in the 'activists' message.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Wenona on 2019-Oct-18, 04:19 PM
After 15 minutes I thought I was watching a well deserved expose of the Abattoir industry.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-18, 04:25 PM
Bets practice huh?
You have got to be kidding.
Did you watch the footage closely?
And by the way, it is enquiring "overreach" as you put it, that has stopped many foul evil things happening, all through time and everywhere.
The absolutely ridiculous racing administration's position on this matter is obviously a joke...
Simply deregister as a racehorse, then kill the bugger a week or two later (even if he has won you and your mates thousands).
Good look ain't it..
So, the answer is honesty hey, push back huh?...perhaps big banners on Melb cup day stating warning "the racehorse you fall in love with this arvo may or may not be killed in a month if it fails or gets injured."
That will help...a disclaimer, so we are all clear about things and harden the xxck up..
No idea.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-18, 04:55 PM
What a load of crap.

If you go home to a steak tonight then don't carry on about horses being killed.

If you have a dog or cat you feed, don't carry on about horses being killed.

If you have ever set a mouse trap, don't carry on about horses being killed.


The more we pander to these beat ups the more ground we lose. Until the  :crap: hits the fan and we end up with someone like Trump in power.


Exactly, we’ll put
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-18, 04:57 PM
:thumbsup:

I'd love someone to stand up and say it like it is. Yes some horses end up at the knackery, yes we try to minimize it from the industry by XYZ etc. but as long as the animals are dealt with ethically then where's the problem? Push it back and say deal with it.

It's time we pushed back against the 'over reach' into peoples lives.


 :clap2:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-18, 04:58 PM
In think you misinterpreted Jeunes.

Absolutely we need to do & be seen to be doing the right thing, there is not place for cruelty.

That said what we define as cruelty isn't the same as the 'activists' as their definition is horse racing it's self! We could put in worlds best practice for after career care and they still wouldn't be happy until the racing industry is closed down.  :shutup: These are the same people who think greyhounds are forced to run  :wacko:

Hence the need to stand up and point out what is happening, it's lawful, it's best practice - deal with it. That will win the court of public appeal when you point out the flaws in the 'activists' message.


Again :clap2:  :clap2: :clap2:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-18, 05:02 PM
Jones and V'landys in their fantasy world.



https://www.2gb.com/racing-nsw-boss-responds-to-disgraceful-disgusting-and-disturbing-abc-attack/
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-18, 05:03 PM
I heard it and agree with PV totally.

The story, as usual was a political beat up from the animal welfare mob. They’re are a disgrace
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-18, 05:14 PM
If you want to slaughter a NSW racehorse then all you need to do is deregister it.

Perhaps on sell it to a slaughterer just to be safe.

You're comfortable with that?

If so, maybe you also live in the duo's Fantasyland.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Oct-18, 06:12 PM
Bets practice huh?
You have got to be kidding.
Did you watch the footage closely?
And by the way, it is enquiring "overreach" as you put it, that has stopped many foul evil things happening, all through time and everywhere.
The absolutely ridiculous racing administration's position on this matter is obviously a joke...
Simply deregister as a racehorse, then kill the bugger a week or two later (even if he has won you and your mates thousands).
Good look ain't it..
So, the answer is honesty hey, push back huh?...perhaps big banners on Melb cup day stating warning "the racehorse you fall in love with this arvo may or may not be killed in a month if it fails or gets injured."
That will help...a disclaimer, so we are all clear about things and harden the xxck up..
No idea.

Shogun I suggest you take a few deep breaths and reread what I said.

Yes it is over reach in the biggest possible way, wanting something banned by meddling in the lives of others (law abiding citizens) simply because you don't like it will never get you anywhere.  :bulb:

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-18, 06:19 PM
If you want to slaughter a NSW racehorse then all you need to do is deregister it.

Perhaps on sell it to a slaughterer just to be safe.

You're comfortable with that?

If so, maybe you also live in the duo's Fantasyland.


So that was the crux of the story from your view?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-18, 06:50 PM
No, I'm explaining V'landys' cop out.

My opinions on the program were posted here as the story developed.

That a national registry is needed to properly regulate the policies.

Note, that both Racing Australia, as well as the Breeders Association concur with me.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-18, 07:10 PM
You’ve always had a beef against PV and I suspect you’re using that in this case


The “slant” of the story was part of an on going attack on the racing industry. It was an absolute nonsense


The real issue was the disgusting treatment of the horses by the turds working in the abattoir

Like those low life mongrals who ran down Roos and wombats in the past month

Closing down the industry, which is their goal, is not the issue. Address the filthy merkins doing the wrong thing
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Oct-18, 07:47 PM


Note, that both Racing Australia, as well as the Breeders Association concur with me.

So why haven't they already implemented one?

It's not like we didn't know this was coming .....
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-18, 08:00 PM
I'm fully entitled to have a beef against him, but I stick to valid criticism based on facts.

We saw him less than comfortable during a lengthy interview.

But urged on by his partner of their mutual admiration society he spun a web of fantasy.

I saw the 7.30 way different than you.

I imagine no footage of animals being slaughtered can look pretty and I'm not sure I saw any malpractices on the show. But I don't know nearly enough about the process.

Pretty sure what was described as kicking a horse's head was not some act of wanton cruelty, rather the safest way of preforming the pedoeuvre.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Oct-18, 08:01 PM
c/racenet

David Pfieffer responds to 7.30's - The Final Race


Warwick Farm trainer David Pfieffer says disappointment is an “understatement” as to how he feels the ABC portrayed him on their 7.30 program on Thursday night.

The show revealed disturbing revelations of ex-racehorses being sold for slaughter with confronting footage of the treatment of thoroughbreds in the program ‘The Final Race’.

ABC investigative journalist Caro Meldrum-Hanna contacted Pfieffer regarding two former horses he trained, Tahitian Black and Next Of Kin, that she claimed had met with death at the Burns Pet Food knackery at Riverstone.

Pfieffer sent a letter to his owners and clients on Friday explaining that both horses “as all horses' we train, were found nice homes at the end of their racing careers”.

“Tahitian Black was retired over three years ago and spent two years in a paddock owned by my foreperson before being rehomed as a show horse in the Gulgong area,” he said.

“Next Of Kin went to Vanderville Farm and was looked after by Nikki Rodgers who is very well known in equestrian circles.

“The horse was then rehomed to embark on a dressage career.

“Pfieffer Racing, without fail, finds decent homes for all of our retired racehorses' — a fact we are proud of.

“My family are animal lovers and my daughter has ponies and competes regularly.

“I was more than happy to co-operate with the ABC as I knew I had done nothing wrong.

“To say I am disappointed in the way the ABC edited their interview with me is an understatement and it is a matter I intend to take further.”

Meanwhile, Australia’s biggest trainer Chris Waller expressed shock and disappointment at the program, stating the industry needs to continue to improve in the area of horse welfare.

"It was a shock to me to tell you the truth. A huge majority are trying to be pro-active in these modern times," Waller told RSN.

“We are fully aware of animal welfare and we are probably the biggest animal lovers of all. To see a few people letting the industry down, it’s pretty damning.

"Whether it’s directly or not, we still need to be responsible for it and we’ve got to be accountable as to every horse that leaves our stable and obviously there's a gap that need looking at."

"The people that are harsh to animals, whether it be a racehorse, or whether it be a hobby horse or any animal, they need to be dealt with.

“I think the powers that be need to come down on them hard and it’s the only way it will stop."





Not sure anyone should be surprised that the ABC and this reporter in particular would twist a story to suit  :whistle:

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-18, 08:10 PM
So why haven't they already implemented one?

It's not like we didn't know this was coming .....
Who knows?

If they were really serious about solving the problem they would have, because without that there are always loopholes available for exploitation.

But from what I've seen today from the many responses they prefer obfuscation and spin.

McCormack wins hands down for the most disgusting effort. Boasting that he hadn't seen the show! That's has inexcusable as it gets, considering he knew he would performing and didn't bother with that easy basic research.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-18, 08:50 PM
I'm fully entitled to have a beef against him, but I stick to valid criticism based on facts.

We saw him less than comfortable during a lengthy interview.

But urged on by his partner of their mutual admiration society he spun a web of fantasy.

I saw the 7.30 way different than you.

I imagine no footage of animals being slaughtered can look pretty and I'm not sure I saw any malpractices on the show. But I don't know nearly enough about the process.

Pretty sure what was described as kicking a horse's head was not some act of wanton cruelty, rather the safest way of preforming the pedoeuvre.

Oh come on. What, you never saw the poor horses kicked and physically abused and having gates slammed into their heads. Some died a horrific slow death

With the greatest respect, It was seen by all except if you had blinkers on.

I gather you were happy with the way the horses were treated at the Abottoir?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-18, 09:07 PM
Perhaps they should engage horse whisperers to calm the creatures prior to slaughter?

I don't know whether there was malpractice or just stuff that can happen in a dangerous situation.

I don't know whether this is correct but it also differs from your view.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-18, 09:13 PM
Anyone...anyone ...who has any interest, involvement or even half baked idea regards this industry knows this exact thing has been going on forever.
It is our dirty little secret.
The second horse I ever raced 'disappeared'...when he was no good...arranged by trainer...
We all know there are no well supervised slaughtermen, well designed facilities, professional staff or process.
We all know these nags are apparent at every country horse sale...
We all know "the doggers" circle and pounce on the pound of flesh when it becomes cheap enough
We all know the numbers bred can never be absorbed by recreational industry, nor would you want that anyways after being trained so restrictively as a racehorse.
The answer if we want to continue racing and grow?
Highly regulated breeding and racing industry...breeding numbers down to 3000 or so....add 50 grand to price of every horse for after career care...which is what it takes for every horse on average...
Financially viable?
Probably not.
Still..it is supposed to be the sport of kings, right?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-18, 09:13 PM
You tell me if this is the way to treat any animal


https://www.news.com.au/sport/explosive-730-investigation-exposes-brutal-slaughter-of-thousands-of-healthy-racehorses/news-story/eafb209900ad1c18a38b2062ad679381


Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Wenona on 2019-Oct-18, 09:14 PM
The most disturbing thing in the show to me was the treatment of the animals from the point they left the racing industry, particularly at the abattoir.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-18, 09:17 PM
Anyone...anyone ...who has any interest, involvement or even half baked idea regards this industry knows this exact thing has been going on forever.
It is our dirty little secret.
The second horse I ever raced 'disappeared'...when he was no good...arranged by trainer...
We all know there are no well supervised slaughtermen, well designed facilities, professional staff or process.
We all know these nags are apparent at every country horse sale...
We all know "the doggers" circle and pounce on the pound of flesh when it becomes cheap enough
We all know the numbers bred can never be absorbed by recreational industry, nor would you want that anyways after being trained so restrictively as a racehorse.
The answer if we want to continue racing and grow?
Highly regulated breeding and racing industry...breeding numbers down to 3000 or so....add 50 grand to price of every horse for after career care...which is what it takes for every horse on average...
Financially viable?
Probably not.
Still..it is supposed to be the sport of kings, right?


Sorry, shogun,
 As much as I have respected your many views I can’t even contemplate some of the above. Pure madness. You clearly want to kill of the industry with those proposals and emotive language

The language tells me you haven’t thought it through
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-18, 09:21 PM
The most disturbing thing in the show to me was the treatment of the animals from the point they left the racing industry, particularly at the abattoir.


Wenona that’s not the motivation of the “story”. Don’t be fooled that this is about animal welfare. We’ve even seen our own JFC suggest that physically abusing, kicking and attacking the poor animals is okay :sad:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Oct-18, 10:30 PM
The most disturbing thing in the show to me was the treatment of the animals from the point they left the racing industry, particularly at the abattoir.

It should be the focus but some how the racing industry is  :shrug:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-19, 06:33 AM
OK Wiles...tell me exactly which sentence is wrong.
Head in the sand, like many of us here.
Like all the trainers pretending they are shocked, like all the do gooders trying to make us believe they know where old Harold the first horse they trained is, happily domiciled at age 23.
Absolute crap.
The whole industry knows this has happened for eons and we all have kept our mouths shut.
If you do not think thousands of slow ones are disposed of every year, you are not thinking clearly.
Hell, even good ones get knocked.
The industry will never get wide spread approval unless this issue is fixed.
It is the Achilles heel...(along with whipping )...we breed em , treat em like champs until they prove they are not, fine...then, on many occasions, we dispose of em and forget about them.
If participants don't get that they need to do better then they will ride this industry slide all the way.
The administrators are bullshit artists regards this, and most of the public are not dumb enough to swallow the PR welfare nonsense...token farms, token systems..
They do not know what to do.
Hong Kong style regulation, number setting etc combined with publically available register of racehorse's address until death...
The multiple thousand dollar bond for after career care should help as well.
Oh, the screaming!
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-19, 07:15 AM
Sorry Shogie, I’m off to my daughters spirts I will reply later but 5he first thing to jump out at it is your last Line. “The multiple thousand dollar bond for after career care should help as well“

That sounds massively different to the $50,000 you wanted last night
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-19, 07:21 AM
C'mon Wiles, that's what you pick up on?
Pedantic approach mate..
I will state it again...50 grand is what would be required...say 15 years at $3500 per annum.
My ex racehorse, now 17 years old, would cost me that...lucerne now $37 per bale at local CRT store!
Good article link below...

Note suggestion regards lifelong tracking via blockchain technology...interesting.
Lee Freedman seems depressed by it all...croc tears or ignorant? You decide....

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-19/racehorses-slaughter-melbourne-cup-the-everest-racing-industry/11618590

See also https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-18/jockey-laura-cheshire-says-she-failed-after-horse-slaughtered/11618258
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-19, 07:27 AM
The worst part of the whole issue is the perception of some racing enthusiasts and administrators, it is a beat up by the activists and ABC.

The racing industry including Racing NSW have lived in an insular world where they have been protected by the Racing media or their allies. When they lose the protection, it is to shoot the messenger without looking at the message.

They are very lucky, it was not broadcast on Monday and thus before the barrier draw on Tuesday. How many Sydneysiders excluding the racing people would have welcomed a rich race and its barrier draw on the Bridge after the revelations.

Vlandys will get his crowd on Saturday and I am not sure if it will be a sellout or not. His provincial / regional races after the Rosehill Eagle will be a sell out but I don’t think in between will be.

The uncomfortable questions will be why raise the prize money in the future if you cannot look after its horses.

The fallacy of looking after a racehorse after its career is financially fundamentally flawed. A racehorse usually has 2-4 years racing on average. But after there is a potential to live into their mid 20s. Not every horse is a show horse or pony club etc. Thus what do you with them? It is like selling a car, you know the first buyer but no one after that.

Does the public expect the all the ex racehorses to live on a property after they raced and not being sent to an abattoir? Emotionally yes. That is the issue Racing authorities now face.

Vlandys better get used to the hard questions as there will be a follow up report and he will not be able to control it. The league media will be taking notes too waiting till he takes over.

Racing is one of the biggest industries in Australia but unlike the hardened punters who will still punt, the social racegoers are more fickle.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-19, 07:31 AM
Well said Jeunes.
ABC did a top job.
I repeat...everybody knew this was going on...if you reckon you didn't you are either a fool or deluded.
The numbers have always been clear...
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-18/horse-racing-industry-responds-abc-investigation-animal-welfare/11615070
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-19, 07:43 AM
Just stumbled over this which should be of particular interest to those concerned about the activists.

Are there any key differences between it and the relevant views of Racing Australia and the TBA?

https://horseracingkills.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Coalition-for-the-Protection-of-Racehorses-submission.pdf
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Oct-19, 08:23 AM
I thought it was a well researched program.

The word had been around for some time about this but the footage from Camden Sales, Luddenham and Burns pet meats was more recent.

The reason this was added was to stop RNSW doing exactly what they are saying that these are not NSW horses.

P V'Landys was being challenged on his 1% figure and that's why he looked so uncomfortable because he knows it's BS......let's not even mention J Dumesny feeble effort.

Hard watching that very handsome, beautifully bred Starspangledbanner stallion National Flag being auctioned off at meat price at Camden.

No-one from RNSW or Racing Vic gets along to these sales and the brand identification is generally done by some dedicated souls trying to do the best for now unwanted animals.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: arthur on 2019-Oct-19, 09:06 AM
Have to agree with Shogie . .



Vaguely remember a horse by the name of "Canapal" or "Tinopal" or somesuch

Nothing like that will be approved henceforth
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-19, 10:13 AM
SMH article. Emotive but does touch a few sore points.

Bubbles and butchery: The real price of your day at the races


They watched with champagne flute in hand as the horse collapsed in his stall, a brilliant, sunlit afternoon in the Birdcage suddenly darkened by the grim reality of racing.
Admire Rakti, one of the favourites for that day's Melbourne Cup, was near death, panicked stablehands were at a loss what to do and on the marquee balcony overlooking this scene, the dapper dressed and neatly coiffed could not avert their eyes.

Whether at Flemington, Randwick or today’s Caulfield Cup, death is never far from a racecourse.
Some deaths, such as the acute cardiac failure which killed Admire Rakti shortly after the 2014 Melbourne Cup, are upsetting but are generally accepted as part of a dangerous sport. Other deaths, such as those documented in grisly detail by Thursday night’s 7.30 program on ABC, can’t be accepted by anyone.
Advertisement

They are happening nonetheless, at remote properties at the end of dusty, country roads where trucks carrying ex-racehorses go in and vans carrying pet mince come out.
Think on that this morning as you head to the track with more money in your pocket than those wretched horses were worth at the end of their lives.

Think on it as you nibble on that tasty morsel at the track. Fancy a bit of horse tartare? It’s quite the delicacy in parts of Belgium, where they wash down paardenfilet, or horse steak, with the local beer, Stella Artois, major sponsor of the Caulfield Cup.
Think on it some more as you head home. Whether you’ve had a good day on the punt or done your dough, whether you’ve lived it large in a marquee or moshed it on the lawn, racing’s big problem remains. It’s a problem that only starts after the final race is run and the last of the day’s drunks are poured into the back seat of a taxi.

According to 10-year records kept by Racing Australia, an average of 14,793 thoroughbreds are foaled in Australia every year. The average racing career of these horses is two to four years and the natural lifespan for a horse is up to 30 years.
You can do the maths. Unless they are being slaughtered, euthanised or otherwise disposed off in scandalous numbers, there are at any given time hundreds of thousands of Australian racehorses living beyond the single purpose for which they were bred.
Are there enough suitable second homes for so many horses? Nikki Cook believes the racing industry is doing nowhere near enough to make sure there are.
Cook runs Shory Park, a eight-hectare rehoming centre for ex-racehorses on the outskirts of Geelong. She takes in horses, usually donated for free by breeders, trainers and owners, lets them unwind in a big paddock, then retrains them for life after racing: how to jump; how to perform dressage; how to stay calm beneath inexperienced riders.

Most find new homes at pony clubs, where parents are discovering that a big ex-racehorse, once properly retrained, is perfectly safe for a child to ride. Others are saddled up for commercial trail rides or put to other suitable uses people have for a strong, healthy horse.
She says her business is the largest of its kind in Australia and takes in about 100 horses a year. She finds homes for all of them, one way or another. If she can’t find a new buyer, she lets them live out their lives at Shory Park.

"They have all got their place and they can all be found a home," she says. "It is a matter of putting in an effort and some time and a bit of love."
Cook says the problem isn’t racing; she has worked at racing stables and says they treat their horses better than some people treat their kids. The problem is what happens beyond the finishing post.

“People need to be aware that like a dog, where you have it till it dies, it’s the same with a horse. You are responsible for that creature the whole way through its life. It’s an important factor to think about and some people don’t when they buy horses. There needs to be more funding for after racing.”
Racing Victoria has identified rehoming horses as a pressing, growing issue for the sport. In August this year, it announced that 1 per cent of all prize money would go towards improving equine welfare. Cook says the investment is well intended but the money doesn’t go where it is needed most.


“From the moment they drop on the ground as a foal, there needs to be more in place for them. That 1 per cent helps but it needs to be put directly towards that horse. They need to have a kitty for the horse when it does retire and comes to someone like me.”
She says there also needs to be much closer monitoring of what happens to horses at the end of their racing careers.

ABC's 7.30 found examples where horses listed by Racing Australia as still active in racing had been slaughtered earlier at a knackery. At Shory Park, the inverse applies. Cook has horses alive and well in her paddocks who are listed by Racing Australia as deceased.
All thoroughbreds are microchipped. If the technology available was properly employed, the racing industry would track every horse throughout its life. Instead, the requirement for ownership details to be updated when a horse change hands are loosely enforced, if at all.

Once horses leave racing, any duty of care owed by their breeders, former owners and trainers is scratched. As a sport and an industry, horse racing devotes neither the time nor money needed to properly protect the welfare of its retired athletes. Cook says this is exacerbated by the overbreeding of all horses, not just racehorses.
Australia would need 150 Shory Parks to rehome all thoroughbreds foaled in a single year.

The slaughter of racehorses is not unique to Australia.

The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals estimates that every year, about 80,000 American-bred horses are trucked north into Canada and south into Mexico. Once there, they are butchered and exported to European countries such as Belgium, where prime cuts of horsemeat fetch a higher price than beef.
The US Senate is currently debating the American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act, a proposed law designed to stop the human consumption of horses. In Australia, there are no national laws and no proposed legislation to prevent retired racehorses being minced.
Cook was appalled by the footage broadcast by the ABC showing horses being treated cruelly by abattoir workers. She says there are circumstances where racehorses, like all animals, need to be euthanised. There are none she can see where a live horse should be sent to knackery.

“People in the industry do it as an easy option or for quick cash. To me, they are not real horse people.”
Quick cash. There’ll be plenty at Caulfield today. Mountains of it at The Everest in Sydney. While we’re counting it, the cost should also be clear.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-19, 10:26 AM
Author?

Thought it might be this SNAG but he's instead fretting about foul language in slaughterhouses.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/racing-gone-to-the-dogs-in-appalling-self-sustaining-circle-of-cruelty-20191018-p53225.html
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-19, 10:52 AM
Author?

Thought it might be this SNAG but he's instead fretting about foul language in slaughterhouses.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/racing-gone-to-the-dogs-in-appalling-self-sustaining-circle-of-cruelty-20191018-p53225.html

Chip Le Grand is the author.

News Corp and associated papers have no coverage of the issue but have saturated coverage of the Everest. Fairfax has more coverage of the issue.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-19, 11:08 AM
Sir Laponac, was the horse...owned by some ratbags I know incidentally...not sure where he ended up...but his name may have determined his fate!
Raced out of Murwillumbah...
Owners thought his name was a real lark!
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Oct-19, 11:49 AM
Author?

Thought it might be this SNAG but he's instead fretting about foul language in slaughterhouses.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/racing-gone-to-the-dogs-in-appalling-self-sustaining-circle-of-cruelty-20191018-p53225.html

I wouldn't put any credence in what that agenda driven flunky says.

After being pointed out his mistakes regarding the greyhound industry instead of owning up and either correcting himself or saying sorry he simply blocks / deletes people and carrying on pushing the agenda. He's a fraud of the highest order.  :thumbsd:

Even reading his dribble about dog food like it's some sort of crime, what's his solution? Do I feed the Cavilers & the old girl tofu FFS?   :shutup:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: arthur on 2019-Oct-19, 12:22 PM
Sir Laponac  :beer:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Authorized on 2019-Oct-19, 06:11 PM
What a load of crap.

If you go home to a steak tonight then don't carry on about horses being killed.

If you have a dog or cat you feed, don't carry on about horses being killed.

If you have ever set a mouse trap, don't carry on about horses being killed.


The more we pander to these beat ups the more ground we lose. Until the  :crap: hits the fan and we end up with someone like Trump in power.

 I am guessing you did not watch the program ?

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Authorized on 2019-Oct-19, 06:14 PM
After 15 minutes I thought I was watching a well deserved expose of the Abattoir industry.

Yes it was more a blight on that industry than racing but racing being a billion dollar industry putting on million dollar races must do better.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Authorized on 2019-Oct-19, 06:17 PM
Shogun I suggest you take a few deep breaths and reread what I said.

Yes it is over reach in the biggest possible way, wanting something banned by meddling in the lives of others (law abiding citizens) simply because you don't like it will never get you anywhere.  :bulb:


Actually I think it got us to where we are today.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-20, 07:37 AM
Wow, this issue is a vexing one.
The lack of suggestion, debate, thoughts here....from such a large community of supposed horse lovers, really surprises me.
The Big secret....like masturbation in the 50's...we just don't like talking about it, do we?
 
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-20, 08:01 AM
Can we at least put aside the inherent hatred of Peter V'Landys for a minute and acknowledge that Racing NSW and Racing Victoria actually set aside part of the prizemoney for animal welfare?

This is the prizemoney for yesterday's Everest

Of $14,000,000.1st $6,050,000, 2nd $2,140,000, 3rd $1,240,000, 4th $900,000, 5th $680,000, 6th $450,000, 7th $400,000, 8th $400,000, 9th $400,000, 10th $400,000, 11th $400,000, 12th $400,000, Welfare Fund $140,000.

Every race sets aside 1% of prizemoney for the horse's welfare.

I didn't see the program.

Did the ABC acknowledge that? Or did PVL have to point it out?

Racehorses in Australia must be the most privileged animals in the world.

How many animals get CAT scans? Get visits from chiropractors?

The reason I didn't watch the program is that I saw it as the ABC's backing for ratbag left wing animal activists. The same sort of people who think it is OK to perform home invasions on farmers they deem to be evil.

The ABC has become a vehicle of lies and half truths.

My advice to people is not to watch it.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-20, 08:07 AM
The whole story on the ABC was an attack on the racing industry and the fact that it exists. It’s real motivation was not about animal welfare. That is the stick being used on the ignorant public.

First point of question is, Can someone tell me what’s actually wrong with horses being processed for meat consumption?


Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Oct-20, 08:35 AM
Can we at least put aside the inherent hatred of Peter V'Landys for a minute and acknowledge that Racing NSW and Racing Victoria actually set aside part of the prizemoney for animal welfare?

This is the prizemoney for yesterday's Everest

Of $14,000,000.1st $6,050,000, 2nd $2,140,000, 3rd $1,240,000, 4th $900,000, 5th $680,000, 6th $450,000, 7th $400,000, 8th $400,000, 9th $400,000, 10th $400,000, 11th $400,000, 12th $400,000, Welfare Fund $140,000.

Every race sets aside 1% of prizemoney for the horse's welfare.

I didn't see the program.

Did the ABC acknowledge that? Or did PVL have to point it out?

Racehorses in Australia must be the most privileged animals in the world.

How many animals get CAT scans? Get visits from chiropractors?

The reason I didn't watch the program is that I saw it as the ABC's backing for ratbag left wing animal activists. The same sort of people who think it is OK to perform home invasions on farmers they deem to be evil.

The ABC has become a vehicle of lies and half truths.

My advice to people is not to watch it.
If you didn't watch it how on earth can you comment on it ?

The program had to be well researched because of the noise that would come back from the so called power people within the racing industry.

The 1% welfare fund was reported  as was "The Farm"

What welfare plans do Messara, Gerry Harvey and Alan Jones have for all the unwanted stock they bring into the world?.....not a lot I think.

The racing industry can no longer pretend it is not much more at times than a meat industry and nor should it.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-20, 08:44 AM
If you didn't watch it how on earth can you comment on it ?


Where did I comment on the program?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-20, 08:55 AM
The whole story on the ABC was an attack on the racing industry and the fact that it exists. It’s real motivation was not about animal welfare. That is the stick being used on the ignorant public.

First point of question is, Can someone tell me what’s actually wrong with horses being processed for meat consumption?




I don’t think that is the issue WOD re horses being processed for meat or we will all be vegetarians. It is more to do with the fact that we are breeding racehorses for racing and discarding them like garbage. It does not help the ratbags in the programme were also mistreating them at their end too.

As a society we seem to get very upset when we see cruelty against animals especially when it seems it is a deliberate act.

Horses live for a long time so not sure what the right solution is but a small tax similar to a GST on every foal sold or bred etc would reduce a bit of the angst and provide for the future.

The fact is that harness racing would be much worse as they don’t have the same prize money to fund much.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-20, 10:03 AM
Where did I comment on the program?

I make a few posts today and there you are stalking away just like it was in the past ready to lay in with whatever I post.

What's happened.

Cat got your tongue stalker?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-20, 10:26 AM
....
The reason I didn't watch the program is that I saw it as the ABC's backing for ratbag left wing animal activists. The same sort of people who think it is OK to perform home invasions on farmers they deem to be evil.

The ABC has become a vehicle of lies and half truths.

My advice to people is not to watch it.
How is that not a comment on the program!

No one is interested in your semantics antics.

And if you must toss grenades you should at least be prepared to revisit them to deal with the consequences.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Oct-20, 10:28 AM

The reason I didn't watch the program is that I saw it as the ABC's backing for ratbag left wing animal activists. The same sort of people who think it is OK to perform home invasions on farmers they deem to be evil.

The ABC has become a vehicle of lies and half truths.

My advice to people is not to watch it.

Couldn't have said it better myself.  :clap2:

I haven't sat through it, I've only caught news snips & online cuts but having endured the greyhound ban in NSW I know exactly what it would have been like. Twist, lie & make out it's the norm while the vast majority of good people don't get a voice and are just shouted at and down by these activists. Eventually the tide will turn with time as the silent majority are heard and the truth will come forward.

None of this absolves the industry of the need for change, something I flagged during the greyhound ban that this was coming but the horse industry were too smug to see it.  :bulb:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Oct-20, 10:38 AM
The whole story on the ABC was an attack on the racing industry and the fact that it exists. It’s real motivation was not about animal welfare. That is the stick being used on the ignorant public.

First point of question is, Can someone tell me what’s actually wrong with horses being processed for meat consumption?

WOD that's a point I make a lot, these ferals rant and rage yet they expect to hold an industry to higher standards than what society is judged by or accepts.

They think racing in itself is cruel  :bulb: As I said early in the thread you cannot reason with these people as they want racing stopped, it's black and white to them, when the rest of us live in the grey area of the middle. Hence the need for someone to stand up and push back, shout from the roof tops the changes and welfare being put in place and then tell them to suck it up. They may hate it which is their right but they have no rights in saying how you, I or the industry operates.

As for meat processing, the fact it's legal is lost on these people  :bulb: The only thing that might have been broken here is RNSW rules if a NSW horse is sent to the 'farm'

That doesn't mean better controls and whole of life tracking isn't needed but it's no reason to shut an industry. Still this is asking for higher standards than what the general public is judged by.  :shrug:

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-20, 10:41 AM
I think we all have to stop shooting the messenger and the vehicle of the messenger.

I work with people who say they like feedback positive or negative. However when they are given negative feedback, they either make excuses, fightback, start crying etc.

Some of the points made during the argument are valid. Farrell still makes his argument only 34 horses are killed this way each year.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-20, 10:48 AM
Gintara,

you seem to stain anyone leaning one way as those activists disrupting innocent farmers' property or causing those insane massive traffic disruptions (again punishing innocents).

In fact this is a very wide spectrum.

I was amazed at how civilised the Randwick protest was.

If you were to read the RSPCA's or that earlier mentioned group's manifestos my bet is you would find little about which to disagree.

The National Register is in the process of being implemented. And everyone seems to agree that's necessary.

You should not try to be damaging that move by trying to disunite this fragile country further.


Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-20, 11:35 AM
How is that not a comment on the program!

No one is interested in your semantics antics.

And if you must toss grenades you should at least be prepared to revisit them to deal with the consequences.

That is a comment on the ABC. Not a comment on the program. I made no specific comment in relation to the program and mainly commented on the welfare of horses.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-20, 12:12 PM
I don’t think that is the issue WOD re horses being processed for meat or we will all be vegetarians.

Can't agree mate. It may be with racing types like you and me but the way that story was "pieced together" it wasn't about us. It was Joe Average and it wanted to paint a picture, an incorrect & dishonest one, about the racing industry. Joe A wouldn't have a clue how many horses are bred to race they just saw horses abused and ampotion blame....wrongly.
Much to the delight of the "welfare mob"
I can't recall, did the story say how many of those horses were actually ex racehorses?



 It is more to do with the fact that we are breeding racehorses for racing and discarding them like garbage.

Again, these are seperate issues. 3 in fact.
1; Personally I dont think we breed to many.
2; Discarding or watage or whatever term wanted is okay by me, we do it with so many other animals. That leads to the 3rd point

3; The tyreatment of those animals was disgusting. That joint should be fined and frankly, those turds who were employees should be imprisioned and their crimian records thoroughly vetted. You know the type that they are


It does not help the ratbags in the programme were also mistreating them at their end too.

I bet nothing happens to them. it appears to me the welfare mob are silent on the criminal individulas


As a society we seem to get very upset when we see cruelty against animals especially when it seems it is a deliberate act.

Not sure we do. wheres the outrage of the bloke who ran over wombats...deliberatley a few weeks back, for example


Horses live for a long time so not sure what the right solution is but a small tax similar to a GST on every foal sold or bred etc would reduce a bit of the angst and provide for the future.

There is but I Totally agree. Not with the $50-K that shogie was asking for :o


The story lumped all of these aspects in together and it is no an all or nothing situation and cant be treated as such



Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-20, 12:19 PM

The reason I didn't watch the program is that I saw it as the ABC's backing for ratbag left wing animal activists. The same sort of people who think it is OK to perform home invasions on farmers they deem to be evil.

The ABC has become a vehicle of lies and half truths.

My advice to people is not to watch it.
Once again with vague ennui:

In just that segment there are 3 boldified references to the program.

Why are you persisting with this! Everyone has better things to do than wallow in such inconsequentiality.

I happen to be sick to death of the ABC's degenerating wank.

So barring shows like Landline and Hard Quiz I avoid it.

As to the program, it wasn't a monologue but an attempt to be balanced.

I don't recall seeing anyone there from the ratbag fringe.

V'landys was given plenty of air time. He did himself no favours.

Perhaps the program could have been better, but only those who watched it are entitled to judge.

And, as yet, you ain't.




Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-20, 01:03 PM
SMH article today.

How is horse racing cruel?
A recent investigation puts animal welfare in the spotlight while activists have been saying horse-racing is cruel for years – but exactly how? And what do the industry and experts say in response?
By Simone Fox Koob
October 18, 2019

For a long time, it was about having a punt, checking out the fashion, maybe scooping the office sweep. But there’s a markedly different kind of conversation around this year’s spring racing carnival.
An investigation by the ABC’s 7.30 program has seen the billion-dollar thoroughbred racing industry again forced to confront issues of animal welfare after it found that thousands of discarded racehorses were being slaughtered in knackeries and abattoirs in New South Wales and Queensland.
Add to that the deaths of horses at successive Melbourne Cups, high-profile doping scandals and exposés into alleged animal cruelty, and it’s clear that animal welfare issues are in the spotlight.
Activists have been saying horse-racing is cruel for years – but exactly how? And what do the industry and experts say in response?


Is there an oversupply of racehorses?
Thoroughbred racehorses generally race for only two or three years before they retire – but they can live for up to three decades.
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Most horses bred in Australia are intended to become competitors in the thoroughbred racing industry here, where $651 million in prize money is at stake every year and annual wagering turnover is more than $19 billion.
In the year to May 1, 2018, Racing Australia has estimated 14,197 foals were born, up from 13,823 the year before. However, numbers have been dropping for the past decades – in 2008-09 there were 17,792 foals born.
The number of races has remained relatively consistent, around 19,000.
After their career in racing, horses go into breeding or recreational activities or they are sent to a new home – or to knackeries, which sell the meat as animal food, or abattoirs, which export the meat for human consumption.
The process of horses leaving the racing industry is known as “wastage”.
In 2014, national regulations made it compulsory for thoroughbred owners to notify Racing Information Services Australia when their horse was retiring. But there is no compulsory mechanism to track the animal to the end of its life.
Studies are scarce. A 2004 study from the University of Sydney, funded by the RSPCA, found that about 6 per cent were sent directly to knackeries. Another study, prepared for Racing Victoria and released in 2014, followed a foal crop from 2005 and found that when they retired, 40 per cent of horses were “re-homed”, 20 per cent went into breeding, 19 per cent had died for unspecified reasons, 5 per cent were still racing and 5 per cent were sold overseas. The fate of the remaining 11 per cent was not known.

Racing Victoria disputes that many horses are killed after they finish racing, saying their statistics from last year show that almost 90 per cent are re-homed directly to the equestrian, pleasure or breeding industries, 6 per cent are euthanised, 4 per cent die naturally and just 1 per cent end up in abattoirs.
The 7.30 report found that around 300 racehorses had been killed in one Queensland abattoir alone in just 22 days, raising questions about how many horses do end up being slaughtered.
If you’re a horse, you know what your great-great-grandmother did, their prize money, their racing records … incredibly more detailed than most humans know about their family … and after that, up until recently, it was a black hole.
Animal welfare organisations hold serious concerns about the welfare of the horses who retire.
“We do know that we see ex-racehorses and thoroughbreds that end up in really dire situations,” says the RSPCA Victoria’s chief executive Liz Walker.
“I think the thing is, there is no transparency and data and what we think is essential is the mandatory collection and publication of life-cycle statistics from birth to death.”
She says horses are one of the only species of domestic animals that don’t have an official register. The RSPCA has seen a rise in reports of cruelty to horses, she says.

Racing Victoria’s head of integrity, Jamie Stier, says the organisation supports the creation of a National Horse Traceability Register. “That would be advantageous not only to racing but to the whole equine population and not only on a strictly injury or location basis to the use of horses but also the other benefits that aren't as easily identifiable, which are welfare-related.
“It gives us a good opportunity that should there be a disease outbreak, we would be able to manage and control that.”
This knowledge is urgently needed and “long overdue”, says Professor Phil McManus, a Professor of Urban and Environmental Geography specialising in human-animal relations and author of The Global Horseracing Industry.
“If you’re a horse, you know what your great-great-grandmother did, their prize money, their racing records, where they raced, how often they won as two-year-old. Those details are incredibly more detailed than most humans know about their family. We know all that stuff and after that, up until recently, it was a black hole,” he says.
“That’s why the wastage issue is really complex, there is a lack of reliable information ... A horse could be out in a paddock in Cranbourne or Pakenham and then a truck pulls up in middle of night and it’s taken to slaughterhouse. We have to go beyond that first destination, microchip every horse, identify it.
“It’s about trying to improve outcomes and thinking about it not just when the horse retires, we have to think about it at the very beginning and a lot of people have to take responsibility.”

What about the use of whips?
One of the most contentious welfare issues in racing worldwide is the use of whips.
Those who believe the device should be used argue it is necessary for safety – to control the horse – and to encourage the horse. Those who oppose its use say it is an instrument of cruelty and hurts horses for what is, essentially, entertainment.
The Australian Racing Board made padded whips mandatory in 2009, saying the “best scientific advice” was that these types of whips did not inflict pain or injury.
Whips cannot cannot be used in an “excessive, unnecessary or improper manner”, nor near a horse’s head, nor if a horse is not responding and not when horse and rider are past the winning post.
The racing board mandated in 2009 that the whip cannot be used more than five times before the 200-metre mark. This changed again at the end of 2015, restricting riders to five strikes with the whip before the 100-metre mark of every race. From that point on, it’s up to the rider’s discretion.
If these rules are breached, jockeys face penalties ranging from fines to suspensions, imposed by stewards.
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The RSPCA wants whips banned. They say whips have the “potential to inflict pain and injury” and cannot be justified because “performance is influenced more by genetics, preparation and rider skill”.
They quote research from a 2012 study from the University of Sydney’s Faculty of Veterinary Science, in which leading equine specialist Paul McGreevy found that the “unpadded section of the whip made contact on 64 per cent of impacts, demonstrating that padding the whip does not necessarily safeguard a horse from possible pain”.
It also found that many jockeys were breaching the whip rules and stewards were not effectively policing them.
In the Melbourne Cup last year, quite a number of jockeys were fined for the overuse of the whip and the penalties were immaterial compared to what the jockeys stand to make from achieving a good result.
“In the Melbourne Cup last year, quite a number of jockeys were fined for the overuse of the whip and the penalties were immaterial compared to what the jockeys stand to make from achieving a good result,” says the RSPCA’s Ms Walker.
In the 2018 Melbourne Cup, six jockeys, including the first three across the line, were penalised for flouting whip rules. Winner Kerrin McEvoy was fined $3000 for using his whip nine times before the 100-metre mark (four more than allowed). First-place prizemoney was $4 million, 5 per cent of which would customarily go to the jockey, which means he would have won about $200,000.
“I think there is a growing community awareness about it … The industry is going to need to adjust.”
The RSPCA also doesn’t condone the use of spurs – the metal in the back of riding boots – or tongue ties, a piece of material wrapped around the tongue and tied to the lower jaw to keep the tongue in place during a race.
Racing Victoria’s position is that there is no credible scientific research, including the studies put forward by the RSPCA, that proves the padded whips cause pain.
“We are not seeing any physical evidence of injuries to the horse on race day and all the horses are looked at by our team of veterinary surgeons,” says Mr Stier.
However, his personal view is that there is “certainly room for consideration of applying a rule that allows a number of permitted uses of the whip throughout the race” and he is conscious of overseas reforms.
In Norway, whips have been banned since the introduction of animal welfare legislation in 1982. More recently, the whip was banned for the first time in the United States at the Santa Anita Park in southern California after a number of horse deaths.
What injuries do racehorses face and why are they sometimes killed on track?
Gastric ulcers are common in athletic horses due to diet, exercise, housing or stress, and horses can also suffer from muscle tear, most commonly in the rump or hamstrings of the hind limbs.
Then there are exercise-induced pulmonary haemorrhages (EIPH), also known as bleeding in the lungs, which can occur during strenuous exercise.
When galloping, horses have a high cardiac output, pushing blood through the body and creating high pressure in the capillaries. These can rupture and release blood into the lungs.
To an extent, EIPH is an “inevitable consequence” of the extremely high cardiac output required by racehorses, say vets at the U-Vet Werribee Equine Centre, which is funded by the University of Melbourne, Racing Victoria and the state government.
Just over half (55.3 per cent) of starters had some degree of EIPH on post-race examination, a University of Melbourne study of Victorian racecourses found, making it a “serious condition in racehorses and prevention or reduction of its incidence is an important issue”.
It’s a condition animal welfare groups are particularly concerned about.
“Statistics should be collected around injuries and reported per race track and for types of racing too, and analysis needs to be done on the different trends,” says the RSPCA’s Ms Walker.
The industry insists this work is already going on.
Australia has the lowest injury rate in the world, says Professor Chris Whitton, from the U-Vet Werribee Equine Centre. But he acknowledges that the nature of racing means some horse injuries can be extremely serious.
“Racing Victoria are doing a lot, they have one of the biggest research programs into injuries in the world. There is always the opportunity to do more and we are dealing with animals and have to do our best for them,” he says.
The Coalition for the Protection of Racehorses has created an annual “deathwatch” tally, which found that 122 horses were killed on track in the year to July 31.
There are significant limitations given the type of fractures they get on the racetrack: explosive, shattered bones ... For us to fix a fracture it needs to be a relatively simple one we can repair … We’ve gotten better.
When euthanasia is the best option for a horse, Racing Victoria says the procedure must be performed efficiently, humanely and with no anticipatory stress. Professor Whitton says there are a number of reasons horses are put down.
“Firstly, a horse needs to be able to stand on all four legs immediately after any procedure we do to fix an injury,” he says.
“There are significant limitations given the type of fractures they get on the racetrack: explosive, shattered bones that would be very difficult to repair, that’s why it’s limited ... For us to fix a fracture it needs to be a relatively simple one we can repair and immediately take the weight on that leg.
“We’ve gotten better and that’s why more horses are taken off the track for assessment,” he says.
Racing Victoria say they “take very seriously the care and wellbeing of our horses and have a track record of showing that”.
“There are risks associated with horse racing as there are with all sports but we work our hardest to identify risk and take appropriate action to minimise that risk,” says Mr Stier.
Some animal welfare groups, including Animals Australia and the Coalition for the Protection of Racehorses, also say horses are at greater risk of injury when they start racing aged two.
However, vet Professor Whitton says he has done a lot of research in this area and evidence has shown the “earlier you start a horse the less injury it has and the longer its career”.
“You need to introduce high speed, work it in carefully and gradually, but there are a number of studies which have shown the younger you start a horse, the longer its career and fewer injuries it has,” he says.

How are horses treated outside the track?
Hundreds of thousands of jobs nationally are tied to thoroughbred racing, and it’s generally accepted that most within the industry have a deep connection and love for the animals.
Successful horses, in particular, are generally extremely well cared for, with millions spent on their welfare. What is the life of a racehorse like compared to other horses?
“Compared to life in the wild, some of the horses and particularly the best racehorses do have a longer life, and the reason being, in the wild they don’t get medical care, they possibly could be attacked by another animal, they can fight amongst each other,” says Professor McManus.
“It’s tough, say in the Snowy Mountains, and it’s not as comfortable as a clean stable with fresh hay. Successful horses in terms of a racing career or potential breeding are very well looked after and it’s in an owner and trainer’s interests to do that, generally.
“There are concerns, though,” he says.
These include the racehorse’s diet, which Professor McManus says can be different to a natural diet and lead to ulcers.
There are also concerns around socialisation, given that horses are herd animals and can end up in stables around lots of horses the same age, with no leadership or herd mentality.
The heart rate goes up massively because that’s how they perform and their physiology is designed to enable them to be amazing athletes. How you determine what’s stress and what isn’t is very difficult to tease out.
It’s also, basically, impossible to know whether a horse likes to race.
“I don’t know anyone knows,” says vet Professor Whitton.
“Their instinct is to run. That doesn’t mean they enjoy it. Having an instinct to run and doing it doesn’t mean you enjoy it. It’s an impossible question to answer. People who say they enjoy it don’t know, and people that say they don’t enjoy it don’t know. It’s unanswerable.”
“The heart rate goes up massively because that’s how they perform and their physiology is designed to enable them to be amazing athletes. How you determine what’s stress and what isn’t is very difficult to tease out.”
Ms Walker from the RSPCA says while there is no doubt there is a “great affection” for horses in the equine industry that doesn’t mean that there are not entrenched animal welfare issues.
From an industry point of view, events such as the 10-month investigation by Victoria Police and Racing Victoria into the alleged use of jiggers (electric shock devices) by top trainer Darren Weir, who has been charged with animal cruelty and conspiracy offences, show that industry bodies are prioritising compliance.
“I think, without doubt, the racehorses are generally considered to receive the highest standard of care … that’s not to say that some individuals don’t behave as we expect them to behave,” says Racing Victoria’s Mr Stier.
“Any evidence or indication of inappropriate behaviour is addressed swiftly and firmly.”
How is the conversation about animal rights and ethics changing the racing industry?
In September, the ACT became the first jurisdiction in the country to recognise animal sentience, passing laws to recognise that animals can feel and perceive the world around them, and deserve to have a quality of life that "reflects their intrinsic value".
The greyhound racing industry has been overhauled in many states after serious animal welfare issues were uncovered, causing outrage.
What does the changing conversation around animals mean for racing?
“There will always be some out there who don’t wish to see horse racing take place – we have to acknowledge that – but what we are focused on [is] considering community expectation,” says Racing Victoria’s Mr Stier.
Professor McManus says it will be a test for the industry in the years to come to maintain its social licence to operate.
“If you whip a horse 18 times in the last 100 metres on a racetrack, it’s OK. If you did the same out in the street, you’d be charged with animal cruelty,” he says.
“It [racing] has a special status at the moment and I think that special status is what conflicts with changing expectations about animal welfare – and those things don’t align at the moment.”
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Oct-20, 01:33 PM
Gintara,

you seem to stain anyone leaning one way as those activists disrupting innocent farmers' property or causing those insane massive traffic disruptions (again punishing innocents).

In fact this is a very wide spectrum.

I was amazed at how civilised the Randwick protest was.

If you were to read the RSPCA's or that earlier mentioned group's manifestos my bet is you would find little about which to disagree.

The National Register is in the process of being implemented. And everyone seems to agree that's necessary.

You should not try to be damaging that move by trying to disunite this fragile country further.

jfc I am talking about the rabid hand wringers, you'll find a vast, vast majority of people sit in the middle without a leaning one way or another, once the hysteria dies down, the carnival is over that group don't have an opinion either way as it doesn't effect them - this was evident during the greyhound ban and once the truth slowly gets heard you'll find the tide will swing your way.

As for the RSPCA, while my arse points to the ground I give no credibility to anything they say or do, they have long lost their charter under Coleman and are now just a branch of activism pointing everyone to the 'donate' button. So spare me anything that comes out of the frauds mouth.

Btw - don't take this as any defence for the racing industry, I'm on record as handing my 15 + year membership to the ATC (formerly STC) over V'Landys comments during the greyhound ban. I was vocal that they shouldn't throw too many rocks when their own house isn't in order, in fact it was well behind the greyhound industry but instead of standing as a united racing industry 'self interest Pete' was happy to dance on the grave of the greyhounds.

So unlike the rabid hand wringers who will stop at nothing but the end of racing, I'm pragmatic, there needs to be changes so let's get on with it and promote how good we can be  :bulb:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-20, 01:57 PM
Once again with vague ennui:

In just that segment there are 3 boldified references to the program.

Why are you persisting with this! Everyone has better things to do than wallow in such inconsequentiality.

I happen to be sick to death of the ABC's degenerating wank.

So barring shows like Landline and Hard Quiz I avoid it.

As to the program, it wasn't a monologue but an attempt to be balanced.

I don't recall seeing anyone there from the ratbag fringe.

V'landys was given plenty of air time. He did himself no favours.

Perhaps the program could have been better, but only those who watched it are entitled to judge.

And, as yet, you ain't.

Lord help me  :angel:

The reason I didn't watch the program is that I saw it as the ABC's backing for ratbag left wing animal activists.

This is an explanation on why I didn't watch the program - not a comment on the program itself.

I made a judgement prior to the show, based on discussion about the show, and the fact it was being shown two nights before The Everest, that the ABC would be backing their left wing vegan ratbag mates - the same ones who have scared off Taylor Swift from appearing at the Melbourne Cup.

So I decided not to watch it. I won't be wasting my time watching ABC left wing propaganda.

If you cannot understand and accept the above then you probably need to see a psychiatrist.

My advice to people is not to watch it.

My advice not to watch "it" refers to the ABC i.e. don't watch the ABC.

Are there any other prepositions, nouns, verbs, etc that need to be explained  :what:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-20, 02:28 PM
I still don't buy your semantics but will try to move forward.

I don't recall seeing any of those ratbags on the show.

Nor anyone trying to ban racing.

Not even the extremely sensible move of reducing breeding.

And considering that V'landys has censored the media so The Everest propaganda gets no scrutiny, it is highly desirable to broadcast dissent, so as to provide balance.

In summary your prejudice about the program is wrong, and if you want to disagree you need to view it, rather than tilt at imaginary ratbags.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-20, 02:36 PM
I still don't buy your semantics but will try to move forward.

I don't recall seeing any of those ratbags on the show.

Nor anyone trying to ban racing.

Not even the extremely sensible move of reducing breeding.

And considering that V'landys has censored the media so The Everest propaganda gets no scrutiny, it is highly desirable to broadcast dissent, so as to provide balance.

In summary your prejudice about the program is wrong, and if you want to disagree you need to view it, rather than tilt at imaginary ratbags.

OK. I wasn't going to watch the f. thing but I guess I'll have to now.

If I'm not back here making a comment in half an hour the ABC probably sent me to sleep.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-20, 03:39 PM
My comments on the program

Sadism and Animal Cruelty

The person hitting horses with polypipe and the ratbags mistreating the horses should be charged with animal cruelty under existing laws.

If the Qld authorities do not do this then the ABC, if they are genuine, should ask questions why this has not been done.

In fact there is a strong argument that the Caboolture abattoir should be closed immediately pending investigation for animal cruelty.

But we know the ABC will not follow up. They have done all they are going to do.

The people filmed are sadists and should not be let near animals.

The Slaughter Of Animals

The images of horses being destroyed is disturbing to someone not used to seeing such vision.

But it would be just as disturbing watching lambs, cows and pigs being slaughtered.

And the number of horses being slaughtered pales into insignificance when compared with that of other animals.

So are people who are disturbed by the images going to stop eating meat and become vegan? The thought did cross my mind about the reporter Caro Meldrum-Hanna and her attitudes to veganism. Whaddya know. She is a Loreto girl who ended up doing Law at UTS - same as my youngest girl.

Racing NSW Horses

Obviously the ABC has determined that there is a transgression of the law as relates to NSW horses and I'm sure PVL will do something about it. Sales like the one at Camden shouldn't happen.

However.....

Question: Did the ABC, or the activists contact the police or racing authorities as soon as they found out about this?

Or were the ABC prepared to let additional racehorses be slaughtered so they could run the story two days before The Everest?

If there was a delay in notifying the authorities, how many extra horses died because of the ABC and will they accept responsibility for this?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-20, 04:00 PM
At one time I tried reporting dubious practices to the ASX, ASIC and other so-called watchdogs.

Never again!

Almost to a person they bent over backwards to let the shonks off!

My bet is animal welfare watchdogs are equally ineffective and untrustworthy and contacting them prematurely is a great way to ensure nothing gets fixed.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-20, 04:31 PM
PP, you are now taking a potshot at ABC for delaying the reporting and having a dig at the Everest and also the number of horses being killed because of the delay etc.

Classic case of shooting the messenger. Tell me why does it take the ABC to report this and not any of the racing media. I don't see Sky Racing or News Media racing media focusing on the issue. All those critical of ABC should be critical of people working in the racing media for not highlighting the issue. I wonder if it is because of not biting the hand that feeds it. If the ABC wanted to destroy the Everest, all they had to do it was release it on Monday and prior to the barrier draw and watch the media circle the Premier and Vlandys. I bet you, he would not have a soft run as he did on Friday with AJ and Saturday.

News Corp had below article on their website. What do you think of below article on the day of the Big Chase? Should'nt they have published it earlier too?

Anger over Australia’s ‘disappeared’ greyhounds
Analysis has raised questions about Australia’s missing greyhounds, with animal rights groups estimating more than 4000 dogs a year have disappeared.

news.com.au
October 18, 20195:21pm


Tonight the “world’s richest dog race” — the TAB Million Dollar Chase — will be run in Sydney but for some, the focus will be on the greyhounds who didn’t make it to the track.
Troubling analysis released today has raised questions about Australia’s missing greyhounds, with animal rights groups estimating more than 4000 dogs a year have disappeared just in NSW.
The Coalition for the Protection of Greyhounds believes thousands of greyhounds are still being killed every year.
A previous report from the Special Commission of Inquiry into the Greyhound Racing Industry in NSW highlighted the number of missing dogs could be as high as 80,721 over 12 years.
But since the report was released in 2016, dogs have continued to disappear, according to the Coalition for the Protection of Greyhounds.
The coalition estimates about 4000 greyhounds were unaccounted-for in 2017/18 and a similar amount in 2018/19.
“Nothing has changed,” Coalition vice president Dennis Anderson told news.com.au.
“The business model of the greyhound racing industry relies upon killing the dogs that are no longer profitable,” he said.
“It’s appalling, it’s absolutely appalling.”


The statistics are a sharp contrast to the emotional “Poetry in Motion” ad campaign released to promote tonight’s $1 million race, which celebrates the grace and beauty of the dogs.

Greyhound racing in NSW has been a controversial topic ever since ABC a exposed “live bait” scandal and former NSW Premier Mike Baird attempted to ban the industry in 2016. He backflipped on the decision after a backlash from the industry and community.
Since then the industry has tried to overhaul its practices and image but Mr Anderson believes the missing dogs had likely been killed.
“About 3500 greyhounds were whelped (or born) last financial year but there’s not 3500 people in NSW putting their hand up to adopt a greyhound,” he said.
“If you had 3500 people every year putting their hands up to adopt, obviously the industry wouldn’t destroy the dog.
“But the owners and trainers won’t keep feeding the dogs if they are not profitable. The whole industry is about profit.”

‘WHERE ARE THEY?’
Mr Anderson said confidential documents suggested about 40 per cent of greyhounds weren’t fast enough for the racetrack so of the 4415 greyhounds born in 2015/16, and 3056 in 2016/17, more than 1000 dogs each year should have been adopted.
Added to this should be the greyhounds that were retired.
Assuming they were retired after four years, the coalition believes about 4000 dogs should have been retired bringing the total number of greyhounds available for adoption in 2017/18 to 5810 dogs, and 5605 in 2018/19.
Yet only 1810 were rehomed in 2017/18 by Greyhound Adoption Program NSW and other private rehomers, according to the Greyhound Racing NSW 2018 Annual Report.
“This leaves 4000 unaccounted-for. Where are they?” Mr Anderson said.
‘SANCTIONED ANIMAL CRUELTY’
Animal welfare supporters are expected to protest on Friday night at Glebe’s Millard Reserve when the world’s richest greyhound race, the TAB Million Dollar Chase worth $1 million in prize money, is run.
Animal Justice Party MP Emma Hurst has described the greyhound industry as “government sanctioned animal cruelty”.
“Greyhound racing is a cruel industry built on the backs of thousands of suffering animals,” Ms Hurst said.
“Over the past year the Greyhound Welfare and Integrity Commission has reported over 1300 greyhounds have been injured on the racetrack. That is almost 20 per cent of all dogs who make it to race.
“The reality is this number is likely even higher.”

More than 1000 dogs are injured every year. Pictu Dylan RobinsonSource:News Corp Australia
She said there were no public statistics about how many young dogs were killed because they were considered too slow to win.
“This is an industry lacking in transparency, and integrity,” she said.
“What is very clear is that the number of dogs injured on the racetrack is growing. According to the Commission’s own data, injury incidents have been on the rise since 2016, and this trend is looking to continue.
“These statistics have shocked and outraged the NSW community. Their reaction has made it clear that the cruel greyhound racing industry no longer has a social licence to operate in our state.”
Ms Hurst believes the NSW Government needs to rethink its position on greyhound racing.
The coalition is calling for the industry to fund a sanctuary for greyhounds to live because there are not enough people to adopt them.
It would also like the recommendations of a University of Technology Sydney study done on greyhound racetrack design to be implemented.
The study said tracks should be redesigned to be straight, and not curved, and that the number of racing dogs should be reduced to six, to reduce injuries.
Despite the study being released in 2017, there has been no action so far.
“The industry is failing in its welfare responsibilities and they’re expecting private individuals to clean up the mess created by the industry,” he said.
News.com.au contacted Greyhound Racing NSW for comment but it was unable to respond before deadline.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-20, 05:11 PM
PP, you are now taking a potshot at ABC for delaying the reporting and having a dig at the Everest and also the number of horses being killed because of the delay etc.


Unapologetically yes I am.

They prepare a story with creepy music and show shocking footage of horses being slaughtered and maintain something needs to be done.

Well I think my questions are quite valid and I'll repeat them.

Question: Did the ABC, or the activists contact the police or racing authorities as soon as they found out about this?

Or were the ABC prepared to let additional racehorses be slaughtered so they could run the story two days before The Everest?

If there was a delay in notifying the authorities, how many extra horses died because of the ABC and will they accept responsibility for this?

If I get a chance I'll post them on one of the ABC's social media feeds.

If they did delay the public knowledge of this so they could run it two days before The Everest they are no better than the parties they are accusing.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-20, 05:16 PM
Did anyone notice that the interview with V'Landys was heavily edited?

To the point that the background wall setting changed without any new questions being asked. You don't see that very often these days. It looked very unprofessional.

Usually when they do that there is something being hidden from the viewer.

My wife used to work in the Premier's Department and said that Neville Wran used to keep taking off then putting his glasses back on during interviews.

This was to make it difficult for them to edit when the footage went back to the studio.

PVL might want to use that trick next time.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-20, 05:20 PM
At one time I tried reporting dubious practices to the ASX, ASIC and other so-called watchdogs.

Never again!

Almost to a person they bent over backwards to let the shonks off!

My bet is animal welfare watchdogs are equally ineffective and untrustworthy and contacting them prematurely is a great way to ensure nothing gets fixed.

We agree on something!!

I actually wonder where all that Animal Welfare money that comes out the prizemoney goes.

Maybe there needs to be a little accountability now.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-20, 05:44 PM
Racing NSW Response To ABC 7.30 Report

Following the program that aired on the ABC’s 7.30 Report last night, Racing NSW Chief Executive, Peter V’landys AM, unequivocally condemned the alleged abhorrent actions of the Meramist Queensland Abattoir. The vision was sickening, and horrendous and Racing NSW calls upon the Queensland Government and its Department of Primary Industries to take the strongest possible action against the alleged perpetrators of such cruelty. Such conduct and any mistreatment of horses is not tolerated in the NSW Thoroughbred Racing Industry.

In responding to the 7.30 Report, Mr V’landys AM said “I will let the facts below speak for themselves:

• Racing NSW is the only State in Australia that has a Rule of Racing that prohibits horses from being sent to a knackery or abattoir if they have been predominantly domiciled in the NSW Thoroughbred Racing Industry. Further, in NSW it is illegal for an abattoir to process a horse for human consumption, unlike other States.

• That Rule is targeted at eradicating treatment such as that of the Meramist Queensland Abattoir detailed in the 7.30 Report. The effectiveness of that Rule is highlighted by the fact that the 7.30 Report did not identify any horses from NSW that had been sent to that facility, which is where this appalling mistreatment took place.

• As to the 14 horses identified by the ABC, Racing NSW responded to the ABC in respect to those horses and advised that at least 12 of those horses had either predominately raced or been domiciled in other States (where Racing NSW does not have jurisdiction) or had been officially retired to be re-homed as a pleasure horse. Accordingly, these horses were outside of Racing NSW’s jurisdiction and this illustrates why Racing NSW is supportive of a National Horse Traceability Register.

• There have been in excess of 10,000 horses retired in NSW over the past three years and even based on the ABC’s unsubstantiated claim that 14 horses were found at a NSW knackery this shows that the Rule has been effective. No Rule is foolproof and in the racing industry, as in any other element of the community, there is unfortunately 1% of participants who will break the rules despite 99% doing the completely right thing.

• To show Racing NSW’s determination to enforce the Rule, it has over a period of time purchased 10 NSW domiciled horses from a Victorian sale located at Echuca which were at risk of being purchased by a knackery and also made bids on many other horses to make it unviable for the knackery to purchase them.

• Racing NSW has also seized over 120 retired thoroughbred horses on welfare grounds and, over a long period of time, brought these horses back to health and then proceeded to re-home them. Racing NSW has also seized retired thoroughbred horses that were to be exported to Asia to race due to concerns about their ongoing welfare.

• Racing NSW has purchased property throughout NSW including 2,500 acres at Capertee to have sufficient areas to enable its rehoming program.

• Racing NSW has a specific equine welfare fund which requires 1% of all prizemoney to be assigned to horse welfare, which was over $2.5 million last year. Racing NSW was the first jurisdiction in Australia to introduce this initiative, doing so in 2016.

• Unfortunately, there will always be people that break the Rules. Racing NSW immediately commenced investigations into the allegations made by the ABC and will prosecute any person that Racing NSW has jurisdiction over that has breached the Rules of Racing and sent a horse to a knackery.

• Racing NSW has not been provided with specific evidence from the ABC in respect to the identity of horses alleged to have been sent to knackeries and will be seeking those details to continue its investigations.

• Despite repeated requests from Racing NSW, the ABC has not returned Racing NSW calls so that Racing NSW could correct some of the incorrect facts that were subsequently aired and to provide any evidence so that Racing NSW can successfully investigate and prosecute breaches of the Rules of Racing. This information included evidence that one horse the ABC claimed was destroyed in a knackery was alive and well and that the ABC was aware of such.

• Racing NSW calls upon any person who has evidence in respect to the mistreatment of a thoroughbred to immediately make contact with the Racing NSW Integrity department for investigation.

https://www.racingnsw.com.au/news/announcements/racing-nsw-response-to-abc-7-30-report/

So the ABC has not returned calls have they? Wonder why?

As I said. They will walk away from this now. Mission accomplished. The reporter probably couldn't give a stuff about the horses.

Wonder how many died while they sat on this story?

According to Racing NSW, 14 horses in the program out of 10,000 retired last year. And they have said they will follow up those 14.

And they had to rescue horses from Victoria (Echuca). How come the ABC gave Victoria a free walk?

It looks like NSW is the safest jurisdiction for racehorses and the show concentrated on NSW. As I said earlier, payback for the Opera House stuff last year.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-20, 05:54 PM
Unapologetically yes I am.

They prepare a story with creepy music and show shocking footage of horses being slaughtered and maintain something needs to be done.

Well I think my questions are quite valid and I'll repeat them.

Question: Did the ABC, or the activists contact the police or racing authorities as soon as they found out about this?

Or were the ABC prepared to let additional racehorses be slaughtered so they could run the story two days before The Everest?

If there was a delay in notifying the authorities, how many extra horses died because of the ABC and will they accept responsibility for this?

If I get a chance I'll post them on one of the ABC's social media feeds.

If they did delay the public knowledge of this so they could run it two days before The Everest they are no better than the parties they are accusing.

Any comments on news Corp article on Greyhounds or the Racing media’s lack of coverage of the waste issue? I did not notice any reference in your response.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-20, 05:57 PM
Why couldn't he have said that in the program?

Sounds like he was unprepared and tried to bluff his way out.

Had he admitted then that without the (imminent) Register, proper regulation is impossible the program would have had to tone down its premise.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Oct-20, 06:52 PM


My bet is animal welfare watchdogs are equally ineffective and untrustworthy and contacting them prematurely is a great way to ensure nothing gets fixed.

Isn't that the RSPCA? You know the one's who's praises you were singing.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Oct-20, 06:55 PM
PP, you are now taking a potshot at ABC for delaying the reporting and having a dig at the Everest and also the number of horses being killed because of the delay etc.

Classic case of shooting the messenger.

Jeunes, it is but surely if they truly cared about the animals they would have? You and I know that a couple of minutes of footage doesn't make the story they craved.

Two wrongs don't make a right  :bulb:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-20, 07:14 PM
Jeunes, it is but surely if they truly cared about the animals they would have? You and I know that a couple of minutes of footage doesn't make the story they craved.

Two wrongs don't make a right  :bulb:

If it was against the Everest, it would have been prior to the barrier draw and usage of the Harbour Bridge etc to give the ABC more publicity.

Now I see people blaming the ABC for not acting earlier. Fair enough. But the lion share of the name should be the racing media and authorities for ignoring the wastage similar to the greyhound industry.

Without the greyhound broadcast by ABC, the industry would be even worse and more dogs in mass graves.

However people were still up the ABC for it. News Corp did a missing greyhound article on the day of the big Chase on Friday but the ABC critics are ignoring it as it is a News Corp article.

Why did the News Corp sit on it if I use your standards and see more dogs dead?

However highlighting  the issues of animal cruelty will always get people fired up. The critics will always say they agree with no cruelty but...


Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Authorized on 2019-Oct-20, 07:32 PM
PP7, Gintara and Wily will not be happy until the racing industry are bought to their knees.

And if those 3 are representative of Racing as a whole it will fully deserve it.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Oct-20, 07:43 PM
It was stated at the start that they had been working on this story for 2 years.

It was not a program about a hidden camera in an abattoir, it was a much wider look at welfare and wastage in the thoroughbred industry

It was designed to hit hard at the truth and it has achieved that although I will concede about the timing.

That truck that had the horses winched and forklifted off travels down the Hume every fortnight from Echuca to Caboolture and both Racing Vic and RNSW are aware of it.
These thoroughbreds and standardbreds are from the fortnightly Echuca Horse sale.
The sale is held every second Friday and the horses are loaded Monday pm and arrive Tuesday pm and slaughtered early Wed morning.

Not only have these horses had to endure all that went on getting to the sales but once aboard they would not have a friend in the world.

Racing Vic. doesn't seen to worry and I am aware that RNSW have been notified about NSW horses on board but haven't done anything.

It really depends on what you find acceptable.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Oct-20, 08:07 PM

News Corp had below article on their website. What do you think of below article on the day of the Big Chase? Should'nt they have published it earlier too?

Anger over Australia’s ‘disappeared’ greyhounds
Analysis has raised questions about Australia’s missing greyhounds, with animal rights groups estimating more than 4000 dogs a year have disappeared.



Jeunes there's a lot wrong with that article as his numbers don't stack up, not to mention he's assuming that every dog would be rehomed  :nowink: let's consider they are 50:50 male/female, how many females remain as breeding stock? Half? There's a 1000 straight off his rubbery figures. Not to mention those with owners etc as his assumption is every dog is disposed of - it's just fanciful! I've got 2 here myself, both retained for breeding, neither have been bred as I just can't be bothered jumping through the hoops. GRNSW has been attempting to force me to 'retire' one of them but I've refused because if I decide to breed down the track and I'd 'retired' her I wouldn't be able to, these are the moronic decisions that have been taken.

Regardless, it fails to mention that every dog is tracked, you simply can't dispose of them without a valid reason.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Oct-20, 08:10 PM
PP7, Gintara and Wily will not be happy until the racing industry are bought to their knees.

And if those 3 are representative of Racing as a whole it will fully deserve it.

Auth I have no idea what you mean?  :shrug:

I am and always will be pro racing, I'm just a realist that's all.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: JWesleyHarding on 2019-Oct-20, 08:27 PM
Auth I have no idea what you mean?  :shrug:


I'm waiting for Auth's psychologist to release her memoir.

It will make interesting reading.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-20, 08:38 PM
My comments on the program

Sadism and Animal Cruelty

The person hitting horses with polypipe and the ratbags mistreating the horses should be charged with animal cruelty under existing laws.

If the Qld authorities do not do this then the ABC, if they are genuine, should ask questions why this has not been done.

In fact there is a strong argument that the Caboolture abattoir should be closed immediately pending investigation for animal cruelty.

But we know the ABC will not follow up. They have done all they are going to do.

The people filmed are sadists and should not be let near animals.





:clap2: :clap2:  :clap2:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-20, 08:43 PM
Unapologetically yes I am.

They prepare a story with creepy music and show shocking footage of horses being slaughtered and maintain something needs to be done.

Well I think my questions are quite valid and I'll repeat them.

Question: Did the ABC, or the activists contact the police or racing authorities as soon as they found out about this?

Or were the ABC prepared to let additional racehorses be slaughtered so they could run the story two days before The Everest?

If there was a delay in notifying the authorities, how many extra horses died because of the ABC and will they accept responsibility for this?

If I get a chance I'll post them on one of the ABC's social media feeds.

If they did delay the public knowledge of this so they could run it two days before The Everest they are no better than the parties they are accusing.



Again, PP is 100%  correct
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-20, 08:49 PM
PP7, Gintara and Wily will not be happy until the racing industry are bought to their knees.

And if those 3 are representative of Racing as a whole it will fully deserve it.

What a freaking ridiculous comment .....actually it’s disgusting and a poor reflection onyou

You’ve totally lost the plot
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-20, 08:55 PM
The second you were in possession of footage showing such cruelty to animals, and if you were genuinely concerned for the animal's welfare, you would turn the footage over to the RSPCA and get them to act.

But not if you are an "investigative" ABC reporter after fame and fortune.

No. In that case you hang on to it of two years and tell everyone it was "two years in the making".

Then by coincidence, the two years is up two days before The Everest.

The ABC must think we are all fools.

What a disgraceful act of "proxy" abuse of animals.

The ABC should be investigated as part of a wider investigation into the animal cruelty displayed by hidden camera at Caboolture.

There is no evidence of inhumane suffering of animals at Luddenham, although the creepy music might give you the impression that there was.

Even so, under the rules ex NSW racehorses should not end up at Luddenham and Racing NSW have said they will investigate it.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-21, 07:24 AM
Most here are missing the point, grasping at straws, running around with red herrings...
The simple fact is we ALL knew this was happening, big time.
We all know a system that is easily fudged with no compliance system as back up is a joke.
We all know the numbers we breed can not possibly be getting absorbed into the mainstream population ...
We listen to administrators and players waffling on about lifetime care, need for green dream death rather than off to the abbatoir, farms for their retirement etc ...but NO debate about the costs...
Wiles keeps rabbitting about my supposed silly or outragous 50,000 bond, yet does not suggest a figure...my figure is based on conservative estimate of true cost of caring for them...not any agenda or guess...I note it only to portray the real significance and cost implications regards some of the big statements the big names are making...
What about the nags that do not even reach the track or even get branded?
To put it simply...the stated levels of scrutiny and care that is required as determined by all the commentators and industry players , as well as Joe and Jolene Public, means that racing as it is, will be financially doomed.
Financially unviable unless major reforms limiting breeding numbers, stallion numbers, race events and prizemoney diversion to care costs somehow achieves the standard near unanimous industry commentariat calls for .
We can muse and debate how illogical it may seem to treat one type of horse different to others until the cows go to slaughter, won' t change this problem.
Social licence.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-21, 07:30 AM
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/guarantee-for-life-to-save-horses-from-slaughter-20191020-p532fn.html
Novel approach, wonder about the business model...imagine if we could send our unwanted back to the farm from whence they came...numbers would rapidly build up, would they not.?
Sustainable? Whadayareckon?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-21, 08:05 AM
Great idea. Every animal deserves to be saved but please tell me why outrage over horses being processed rather than dogs,cats,sheep,pigs, cows & kangaroos and fish
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-21, 08:13 AM
"Racing Australia, Racing Victoria, Racing NSW, the Victorian government and corporate bookmakers all support the establishment of a national register to track every horse bred for racing from the time it is foaled to when it dies. Under current regulations, racing authorities stop accounting for horses when they retire."

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/horse-racing-on-the-nose-industry-insiders-warn-20191020-p532hc.html

Aaaahhh...anyone done the sums?
Or will we all just pretend, like we have so far..?
Like the people who have posted here, intimating we are already doing enough, something...when any idiot can tell it is window dressing, inadequate...
Has anyone really tracked ex racehorses for 10 or 15 years...the real timeframe, not just a year or two?
And what about the tragic death and subsequent coroner's findings in NSW regards the idiots who used a recently retired racehorse ratbag to teach new riders at TAFE?
Girl killed, first lesson.
Is rehoming for riding a safe strategy? Mostly, but huge problems here as well which ultimately results in ex racehorses non use , neglect, and ultimate sale and death.
Wiles, if you think this is a great idea, how will a stud pay for them?
You are really comparing fish with racehorse? Really?
It is not me whom thinks NO racehorse should be destroyed in abbatoirs..it is the majority view of the public, many racefans even, but most importantly, the industry itself.
Get it? You are behind the game...
There will be no appetite for allowing this, into the future. Game over.
Stop worrying about philosophical loopholes to this, start worrying about how this industry moves forward without relentless action against it, I say...
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-21, 08:22 AM
..
Wiles keeps rabbitting about my supposed silly or outragous 50,000 bond,


There you go.
My whole problem with the story was the manufacturing of the issue. Massaging a story to CREATE an impression

Then I get Shogie saying ive been "rabbitting on"

How many times did I mention it?
Once???

What was i saying about wrongly trying to CREATE an impression?

Sensible debate is stiffed by such stuff
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-21, 08:33 AM
Horses are a huge environmental problem and the world equine population needs to be significantly humanely reduced,

Ironically true wild horses are one species that needs to be saved. Yet humans are driving it to extinction!

And more ironically Australia has a role.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/the-ongoing-mission-to-save-only-truly-wild-horse/56fd0187-eaed-4c62-a2b5-e8426a1dc123
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2019-Oct-21, 11:27 AM
Racing authorities must be kidding believing they will be able to keep track of retired racehorses through their micro chips . What happens to a racehorse that is exported to Singapore, Korea , Hong Kong or mainland China ? Surely once those horses are off shore Australian authorities have no idea whether they are mistreated, or not, when their racing days are over.

 In China, for example, horse meat is considered a delicacy and a lot of Chinese live in Hong Kong and Singapore,

In Australia it has already been proven some horses are mistreated, so what's the odds it is little different in Asia ?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: napes on 2019-Oct-21, 11:36 AM
WTF has setting a mouse trap got to do with what we saw last night.?
All sentient beings are up for grabs hey?
A cow is a horse is a mouse is a who cares?
Joe Public will not think like that.

After I looked up "sentient", my next query is, who decides which sentient being is worthy of outrage?

Think about that mouse who gets stuck in that trap and slowly dies or chews its leg off to get free. Is it less worthy of your indignation than the horse? Is a cow that is bred for slaughter less worthy? Is the kangaroo you feed to your dog less worthy than your dog? Who decides the order of worthiness now we have taken it away from natural selection?

Joe public is an hypocrite who sits down to watch the ABC in indignation whilst chewing on a Tbone and feeding Pal to his labradoodle and whiskas to his persian.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-21, 11:49 AM
After I looked up "sentient", my next query is, who decides which sentient being is worthy of outrage?

Think about that mouse who gets stuck in that trap and slowly dies or chews its leg off to get free. Is it less worthy of your indignation than the horse? Is a cow that is bred for slaughter less worthy? Is the kangaroo you feed to your dog less worthy than your dog? Who decides the order of worthiness now we have taken it away from natural selection?

Joe public is an hypocrite who sits down to watch the ABC in indignation whilst chewing on a Tbone and feeding Pal to his labradoodle and whiskas to his persian.

Spot on napes.
Fix the abuse at the abortoirs and move on

Speaking of, I'm  off to a golf lessen

Pray for me
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-21, 11:52 AM
One of the most obvious issues to me is that feral introduced species (including exterminated) need to be exterminated. They cause huge environmental damage including killing off native species. Many of them also lead wretched lives, thanks in part to inbreeding.

Scientists are aware of this.

But our NSW government are protecting this vermin. Almost as if they were corrupt politicians, lawyers or businessmen.

What insanity!
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: napes on 2019-Oct-21, 12:57 PM
C'mon Wiles, that's what you pick up on?
Pedantic approach mate..
I will state it again...50 grand is what would be required...say 15 years at $3500 per annum.
My ex racehorse, now 17 years old, would cost me that...lucerne now $37 per bale at local CRT store!
Good article link below...

Note suggestion regards lifelong tracking via blockchain technology...interesting.
Lee Freedman seems depressed by it all...croc tears or ignorant? You decide....

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-19/racehorses-slaughter-melbourne-cup-the-everest-racing-industry/11618590

See also https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-18/jockey-laura-cheshire-says-she-failed-after-horse-slaughtered/11618258

There are farmers out there struggling to keep breeding stock alive because of drought, and you want every racehorse to be fed and housed for the rest of their natural life? More than 20 yrs in some cases! How long do you think the planet will last?

What about all the other animals? How long will the planet last if we feed and house every animal now alive, for the rest of its natural life?

These lefty concepts are great until someone has to pay for them. (and not just the monetary costs)

Ensure they get a good life and a humane death and move on. Giving them a name doesn't make them more entitled than the cow you have for dinner.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-21, 02:35 PM

Joe public is an hypocrite who sits down to watch the ABC in indignation whilst chewing on a Tbone and feeding Pal to his labradoodle and whiskas to his persian.

Or who calls out for more to be done by others on Climate Change while owning a 4WD and living in an urban area sitting down watching TV shows like Q&A or The Project in air conditioned comfort and 25 things plugged in around the house recharging when they are already recharged and chewing up electricity.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Oct-21, 08:15 PM

If you have been to France you have eaten horse meat

.............. for meat eaters, the policy issues are about the humane killing of animals, including once-were-racehorses.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Arsenal on 2019-Oct-21, 08:18 PM
A brief re-run tonight on 7.30 Laura Cheshire... Chris Waller appeared in person Lloyd Williams by text and Ian from a stud who buys back any horses from his farm rather than see them slaughtered .....no shows from the so called leaders of the racing industry who were all unavailable.

https://iview.abc.net.au/show/7-30.......story starts around 10.56 minutes

Giddy Down  :thumbsd:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-21, 09:50 PM
A brief re-run tonight on 7.30 Laura Cheshire... Chris Waller appeared in person Lloyd Williams by text and Ian from a stud who buys back any horses from his farm rather than see them slaughtered .....no shows from the so called leaders of the racing industry who were all unavailable.

https://iview.abc.net.au/show/7-30.......story starts around 10.56 minutes

Giddy Down  :thumbsd:

The reason Racing NSW didn't appear is probably due to this:

Despite repeated requests from Racing NSW, the ABC has not returned Racing NSW calls so that Racing NSW could correct some of the incorrect facts that were subsequently aired and to provide any evidence so that Racing NSW can successfully investigate and prosecute breaches of the Rules of Racing. This information included evidence that one horse the ABC claimed was destroyed in a knackery was alive and well and that the ABC was aware of such.

https://www.racingnsw.com.au/news/announcements/racing-nsw-response-to-abc-7-30-report/

So Racing NSW are saying that one of the horses claimed to have been destroyed by the ABC is still alive and kicking.

Furthermore, the ABC was in possession of that knowledge when the show was aired. They (the ABC) chose to be dishonest and not correct the error.

You sort of lose credibility when you do something like that.

Typical ABC. Never acknowledge their mistakes. Then they just go mute when confronted with them.  emthdown

And added to that they refuse to provide evidence so the matters can be investigated.

As I asked yesterday, how long was the 7.30 report sitting on this story? Surely they were duty bound to provide the RSPCA with evidence as soon as they came into possession of it so that no animal suffered any further.

On the surface of it, it looks like they sat on the story for many months while other horses suffered, especially at the hands of that sadist in Queensland who I hope has been removed from that role and is sent for a psychiatric assessment.

Reprehensible behaviour by the reporter and the ABC if that is the case.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-22, 04:57 AM
Just watched it (on mute) with captions.

I didn't detect any disturbing footage. Is there anyone insane enough to jump inside a packed ring and use their hands, instead of achieving the same result safely above nudging with their feet!

And I wonder at anyone concerned about the bad language.

Does anyone consider it inappropriate for that to occur when choreographing livestock?

I imagine even those who've heard it will enjoy listening to the recitation at the very bottom of the lengthy barely legible page from an invaluable resource.

And the Bullocky’s favourite – the story of Holy Dan, the man who never swore.

 

...
The majority of teamsters and bullockies were protective of their beasts and would come down on any man suspected of cruelty to his team. This didn’t stop the men screaming endless abuse at their teams for this was necessary to encourage the mighty animals to heave and continue through the very worst of conditions.

http://www.warrenfahey.com.au/enter-the-collection/the-collection-a-c/bush-workers/bullock-driving/
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-22, 06:40 AM
The reason Racing NSW didn't appear is probably due to this:

Despite repeated requests from Racing NSW, the ABC has not returned Racing NSW calls so that Racing NSW could correct some of the incorrect facts that were subsequently aired and to provide any evidence so that Racing NSW can successfully investigate and prosecute breaches of the Rules of Racing. This information included evidence that one horse the ABC claimed was destroyed in a knackery was alive and well and that the ABC was aware of such.

https://www.racingnsw.com.au/news/announcements/racing-nsw-response-to-abc-7-30-report/

So Racing NSW are saying that one of the horses claimed to have been destroyed by the ABC is still alive and kicking.

Furthermore, the ABC was in possession of that knowledge when the show was aired. They (the ABC) chose to be dishonest and not correct the error.

You sort of lose credibility when you do something like that.

Typical ABC. Never acknowledge their mistakes. Then they just go mute when confronted with them.  emthdown

And added to that they refuse to provide evidence so the matters can be investigated.

As I asked yesterday, how long was the 7.30 report sitting on this story? Surely they were duty bound to provide the RSPCA with evidence as soon as they came into possession of it so that no animal suffered any further.

On the surface of it, it looks like they sat on the story for many months while other horses suffered, especially at the hands of that sadist in Queensland who I hope has been removed from that role and is sent for a psychiatric assessment.

Reprehensible behaviour by the reporter and the ABC if that is the case.

Leaving aside your derision of the ABC, do you they have a valid point with their investigation regardless of when the report was filed etc? I agree with your assessment of the sadist but what about the message in the report?

The critics of the report are blaming ABC and it’s delay for filling the report for more deaths. They are completely absolving the Racing bodies of any responsibility in this.

The question is did the Racing bodies in many states know there were horse auctions which involved racehorses? This should be answered by the Racing bodies. If they did not know, it is very bad governance if hack journalism can uncover it.

I had a professor once tell his class, data in majority of the cases is accurate but anomalies exist. He then told us the critics will use the anomalies to attack the data and it’s message. If Racing NSW is concerned about one horse being alive what about the other horses and the general question of do they track all the horses etc.

Also I noticed that many critics of the ABC have not responded to the News Corp article I posted bar one. They released their report on the day of the big chase . So are they morally corrupt for not releasing their report earlier.

Criticising the ABC seems to be a common reflex of some of the Racing bodies. What about their plans for the future and what they will do about it. It is a lot of posturing by everyone.

At least some of the trainers and jockeys are coming out and calling for action. We have a breeder who is coming out to say they will buy their ex horses etc.

This is where the energy of the critics should be. Acknowledge the problem and work on a solution . The message delivery was not perfect but the message should never be ignored in criticism.



Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Oct-22, 08:49 AM
Brand identification is not always that easy so because one horse was incorrectly named it just means it was another thoroughbred.

Where is John Messara's voice in this?

Let him explain what he does with all the less than perfect Redoutes Choice and Snitzel  horses that he breeds for the racing industry.

That pen full of frightened 2 yr olds awaiting their fate.......bloody disgusting but yet it's all in the Stallion's returns....live foals, named foals and number of winners.

I'm on the Thoroughbred Gatekeeper's Facebook page (it's pro racing) and fairly recently  a girl was trying to find a new home for one of Lloyd Williams group winning Galileo geldings .....it's all part of the racing cycle.

As I said before if you are comfortable with what you see you will have to hope there is enough of like minded people to sustain racing in it's present form.

It's interesting seeing the biggest names in the training ranks pushing the same message because they are realistic enough to see the threat even though they would be fully aware of it.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Oct-22, 11:10 AM


The dogged pursuit of this matter has run its course -- the charges are apparently overblown  -- a beast up?

                                 ...... spare a thought for the Bambis, Bessies and BaaBaas that only ask to be killed softly.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2019-Oct-22, 11:23 AM
End ‘chest-beating’


LEADING breeding and racing figure Anthony Mithen has blasted Peter V’landys over petty “chest-beating”, after confronting reports of ex-racehorses being brutalised before dying at grotty slaughterhouses.

Mithen, of Rosemont Stud, issued a statement yesterday urging officials across Australia to improve equine welfare.

“Racing needed a good weekend on the track because we had a terrible one off it,” Mithen said. “We love our animals. We put them before most other things in life. We are dedicated to them.

“When I say we, I mean almost everyone who earns a buck out of racing that comes into touch with horses.

“As an employer, the racing game is in the top five by numbers in this country. It’s important to so many people.

“Which is why we were all horrified on Thursday night watching the ABC report. But saying we love our horses isn’t enough. Shifting the blame to rogue abattoirs isn’t enough.

“Pointing the fingers at other states isn’t enough. Although I can see why some finger pointing has been done."

Mithen said Racing NSW chief executive V’landys had grandstanded on the issue and needed “a room of mirrors to have a good, hard look at himself, not others”.

“It was always folly to go from 0-100 in one millisecond by outlawing the sending of a racehorse to the knackery,” Mithen said.

“A showboat moment that said, ‘We’re doing more than you’. All bluff and bluster and ‘look at me’ and, ‘How bad a job is everyone else doing?’

“Well, Pete, I reckon you needed to double your efforts. Instead you took on running a whole other sport. And the racing industry let you take that job at the NRL. What was anyone thinking?”

Mithen said Racing NSW had failed to police horse movement and care properly. “What any good organisation would do is inspect what they expect,” he said. “If you expect no racehorses to the knackery, inspect it. No point playing the ‘wasn’t us’ game after the fact. “The Racing NSW statement on Friday was a disgrace. “Again all ‘chest beating’ and ‘look at me’ and ‘wasn’t us’ and ‘state versus state’. “Our industry is under attack and RNSW wanted to hurl hand grenades over the border? Really?” Mithen said Victoria also had to do more. “There has been too little action, given the talk. We’ve been told for the last decade we need to take horse welfare and rehoming seriously,” he said.

“Well, I’m here to tell administrators to get their act together. Racing Victoria has an $80 million war chest that they need to creak open and spend some serious dollars getting this right. End the petty pointscoring, quit your other jobs, and double your efforts to get a national traceability program in place like you’ve promised. And quickly.”

Mithen called on administrators to come together to make traceability a No.1 equine welfare priority.

leo.schlink@news.com.au
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Arsenal on 2019-Oct-22, 11:28 AM
QLD HORSE ABATTOIR MAY FACE CRIMINAL PROBE
Monday 21 October, 2019
 
Tracey Ferrier
 
Biosecurity officers have inspected the Qld abattoir at the centre of a racehorse cruelty scandal.
Biosecurity officers have inspected a Queensland abattoir at the centre of a racehorse cruelty scandal but no charges have been laid so far.
Officers examined the Meramist Abattoir at Caboolture on Friday after the ABC 7.30 program aired distressing footage of some staff beating, shocking, and screaming abuse at former racehorses before they were slaughtered.
Queensland Agriculture Minister Mark Furner says no charges have been laid as far as he's aware, but he will receive a full briefing on Monday.
"I'm not going to go into too much detail on the investigation because it could very well turn out to be a criminal investigation for alleged breaches of the Animal Care and Protection Act."
Mr Furner revealed the abattoir, which exports horse meat, has been investigated in the past over complaints about the transport of horses to the site but no formal breaches were identified.
He said he was aware of reports about a neighbour complaining to the local council about the frantic sound of terrified horses being brought to the plant late at night.
"If those complaints were made to the Moreton Bay Regional Council why didn't they pass them on to the likes of Biosecurity Queensland?"
The minister has written to federal Agriculture Minister Bridget McKenzie seeking answers, including whether an appointed vet was present when the killings occurred, as required under federal regulations.
"What we really want to find out is what's happening inside the abattoir when these beautiful horses are slaughtered," he said.
He said he'd also put the issue on the agenda when Senator McKenzie meets with state and territory agriculture ministers in Melbourne on Friday.
AAP is seeking comment from the abattoir, and the council.
ENDS
The minister has written to federal Agriculture Minister Bridget McKenzie seeking answers, including whether an appointed vet was present when the killings occurred, as required under federal regulations.
I think the answer to that is obvious.
Giddy Up :beer:
 

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Oct-22, 11:30 AM

The dogged pursuit of this matter has run its course -- the charges are apparently overblown  -- a beast up?

                                 ...... spare a thought for the Bambis, Bessies and BaaBaas that only ask to be killed softly.
This topic has a long way to run Peter.

The "Inflated Field blah,blah blah" topic is one that ran it's course a long, long time ago.......You post nonsense and Wily slags off at you......boring!
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-22, 11:36 AM
Wonder when silly little Premier Gladys will cease partying and step up?

How much damage will be done while the enquiry drags on?

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Arsenal on 2019-Oct-22, 12:23 PM
Not available at the time of the broadcast but on the ABC site now ........questions from the ABC to various racing bodies and their responses.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6486284-Statement-From-Racing-NSW-to-7-30.html
 
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6486267-Statement-From-Queensland-Racing-Integrity.html

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6486355-Statement-From-Harness-Racing-Australia-to-7-30.html

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6486275-Extra-Statement-From-Harness-Racing-Australia-to.html

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6486270-Statement-From-Racing-Victoria-to-7-30.html

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6486269-Statement-From-Racing-Australia-to-7-30.html

Also a list of all the horses named in the program as having been slaughtered most at Caboolture....taken from the transcript

Four-year-old, Sunny Fame.
Eight-year-old, Only Money.
Three-year-old, Rapid Feet.
 Four-year-old, Bumbunga.
 Eight-year-old, Valtari.
Mares Moonline Dancer and Lapislazoo.
Six-year-old ,Take A Chance.
Seven-year-old, Vortuka.
:Four-year-old, Absolutely Win.
To name just a few - all of them slaughtered at Meramist in the past 18 months.
Lady Bryce.
Five-year-old Bells Creek and Glen Appin, almost $40,000 of prize money between them. Incredibly both mares are listed as active and racing on the regulator's online database.
 Courtney's Luv.
: Five-year-old gelding Unbuckled, and Startreusse.
: Rebel Prince -.
Four-year-old gelding, Perfectly Spun
CARO MELDRUM-HANNA: It's unclear how and why Perfectly Spun came to be at a knackery just eight days after it was officially retired.
Gelding Legal Waves, last raced October 2017, a week after the New South Wales knackery ban came into force.:
Seven-year-old, Hard Rain.
Four -year-old, Reliable Kingdom.
Explore the World –
Five-year-old, Grand Icon.
Cloverdale.
Three-year-old, Next of Kin - still listed as active on the regulator's database.
Eleven-year-old, Halos Image.
Tahitian Black
War Ends.
Dunno which one RNSW claims to be still alive and presumably well.

Giddy Up :beer:

From RNSW .....the answers aren't hard to find .......which is the ONE claimed to be alive and well RNSW should have identified it .

Extracts from RNSW media release relevant to the claim of misrepresentation by the ABC
• Racing NSW has not been provided with specific evidence from the ABC in respect to the identity of horses alleged to have been sent to knackeries and will be seeking those details to continue its investigations.

• Despite repeated requests from Racing NSW, the ABC has not returned Racing NSW calls so that Racing NSW could correct some of the incorrect facts that were subsequently aired and to provide any evidence so that Racing NSW can successfully investigate and prosecute breaches of the Rules of Racing. This information included evidence that one horse the ABC claimed was destroyed in a knackery was alive and well and that the ABC was aware of such.

• Racing NSW calls upon any person who has evidence in respect to the mistreatment of a thoroughbred to immediately make contact with the Racing NSW Integrity department for investigation.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Oct-22, 12:30 PM
Reliable Kingdom.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Oct-22, 12:31 PM

Any mistreatment of animals is abhorrent --- but the idea that every racehorse bred gets a pension is daft.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: napes on 2019-Oct-22, 12:43 PM
The most sensible thing you have ever said on this forum.  :clap2:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Oct-22, 12:48 PM
Any mistreatment of animals is abhorrent --- but the idea that every racehorse bred gets a pension is daft.
True enough and hundreds don't even get an apprenticeship.

This is a statement that needs to come from the industry and then people who support racing can make up their own mind after that.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: napes on 2019-Oct-22, 12:54 PM
The good old ABC seems to be following up on this investigation much closer than the one where the  police officer stoned a wombat to death a few weeks ago!

It mustn't have had a name!!
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-22, 01:53 PM
The good old ABC seems to be following up on this investigation much closer than the one where the  police officer stoned a wombat to death a few weeks ago!

It mustn't have had a name!!

Yes mate. I raised that as well

What happened to the disgusting creature who did that?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Arsenal on 2019-Oct-22, 04:02 PM
A part of what Premier Annastacia PALASZCZUK said in Qld Parliament this morning.

That is why, today, I am announcing an urgent inquiry into the treatment of retired racehorses and animal welfare concerns in dealing with retired racehorses at Queensland abattoirs.
This independent inquiry will be overseen by the Queensland Racing Integrity Commission, which is the independent watchdog charged, in part, with safeguarding the welfare of racing animals during their racing career.
It is a necessary inquiry to provide Queenslanders with confidence that the racing industry is doing everything possible to ensure the welfare of horses.
Animal welfare is everybody's responsibility and my government will not stand for cruelty to animals.That is why Queensland has the toughest animal cruelty laws in Australia, including penalties of up to seven years jail for the most serious offences.
This inquiry will determine what more we can do to make sure that we have the best possible processes in place to end cruelty to animals in Queensland. Separate to this, Biosecurity Queensland investigators visited the abattoir last week immediately after this story aired and their investigation is ongoing.
The inquiry will be headed by retired District Court judge Terry Martin SC, with the support of equine veterinary surgeon and Australian Veterinary Association representative Dr Peter Reid.
Both Mr Martin and Dr Reid have extensive experience in their respective fields and will bring a wealth of personal and professional knowledge to their roles in the inquiry.
I stand with the many industry figures who love their racing animals and, like them, I want to make sure that no stone is left unturned.

The inquiry will examine the regulatory and oversight arrangements for the management of retired racehorses; the regulatory and oversight arrangements for the operation of facilities accepting horses for slaughter; the adequacy of arrangements for detecting, assessing, mitigating and prosecuting breaches of the welfare of retired racehorses, including those moved from interstate; comparative assessment of arrangements in other states; and any changes required in oversight of the tracking and welfare of retired horses. The inquiry will also engage the expertise of the Queensland Department of Agriculture and Fisheries and is expected to report back to the ministers for agriculture and racing early next year. I reiterate that animal cruelty will not be tolerated in Queensland and that is why my government has implemented this inquiry with the urgency it requires.

Not to be outdone the Hon. Hinchy had this to say about the matter

Retired Racehorses, Forum Hon. SJ HINCHLIFFE (Sandgate—ALP) (Minister for Local Government, Minister for Racing and Minister for Multicultural Affairs) (9.44 am): Last week, the ABC's program 7.30 broadcast a story about the treatment of horses after they had retired from their racing careers. Part of that story—a shocking part of that story—was the treatment of several retired racehorses at a Queensland abattoir. The images were horrific and sickening and I hope I never see anything like it again.

I welcome the Premier's announcement this morning of an independent inquiry into the treatment of retired racehorses. Some time ago I tasked my office with organising a forum to look at racehorses and their post-career lives. Invitations had been sent and accepted before the ABC story broke on Thursday night. First thing on Friday I asked that the forum be brought forward to this week. It has taken some organising but I am pleased to inform the House that the forum is being held this afternoon.

This is an issue that the whole of the racing industry needs to address and for which everyone must take responsibility. It is not about the trainers or the breeders; it is about the trainers, the breeders, the owners, the codes and all levels of government. Today major stakeholders from across the racing industry will be represented, from breeders and trainers to re-homers, vets and Racing Queensland. Also at the table will be the Queensland Racing Integrity Commission, the independent organisation charged with safeguarding the integrity and welfare of racehorses and the industry.

The history of the commission actually speaks to the Palaszczuk government's commitment to animal welfare. It was established under the Racing Integrity Act 2016 and was borne of the 2015 commission of inquiry which was set up to look into the Queensland greyhound racing industry after the revelations of live baiting. We needed Racing Queensland to look after the business of racing, with the commission independent of that and focusing on integrity and welfare issues. It is this independence and the experience of QRIC that will continue to drive us towards excellence in the animal welfare arena.

Already we have the highly successful Greyhound Adoption Program, which brings ex-racing greyhounds and families together. Could we do something similar in the equine arena? It is certainly up for discussion, although we know it is a slightly different prospect finding a happy home for a greyhound than it is for a horse that stands 16 hands high. As the 7.30 story pointed out, this is not an issue that is confined to Queensland's borders. Next month all Australia's racing ministers will be meeting at the Australasian Racing Ministers Conference in Perth and I know this will be a key issue on the agenda. I look forward to updating the House on these issues

ENDS


Giddy Up :beer:

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Oct-22, 04:55 PM



The lovable ABC

.........................almost always makes a mess of any stories it runs on the racing industry.

One can only wonder why they keep buying stories from biased sources.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-22, 05:08 PM
Wiles , not having a big go at you, just the points you seem to raise..you focussed twice on my silly 50 grand suggestion, without suggesting what you reckon a bond should amount to...or maybe you have no firm idea and that's ok...you have already stated here you think we are not over breeding....but many others, big players, trainers , owners are saying we do.
Instead of getting all picky or adversarial with me, you guys should try to listen what the bosses in your beloved industry have stated. Pandora box has opened.
You cannot help but keep shooting messengers.
The public is worth listening to...if we want to see racing continue...
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-22, 06:20 PM
Shogie. No one doubts that it would be great to save every horse bred till they die of natural causes. Is it realistic though?....not in m6 mind

No one doubts that our horses should be treated kindly and respectfully but is that solely a racing industry issue if some are not?....of course not  but the animal welfare mob and the ABC that racing horses is evil and should be stopped


The ABC story was slanted & dishonest in the picture it portrayed.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-22, 06:55 PM
Most of us remember when we were young, there only used to be a few meets a day and most Saturdays we had all the states etc. Now we have wall to wall racing every few minutes. We had the absurd situation on Sky Racing 1 when before and after the Everest there was only a gap of a few minutes between the races.

We used to also have only 8 races on Saturday but now 9 is the accepted norm. So where do all the extra horses go after they are created to satisfy our gambling needs?

Do we tax a small percentage of our bets, prizemoney and sale prices of horses etc to pay for some sort of insurance / savings for the future? I don’t know the answer but we should not put our head in the sands like some of the Racing bodies and ministers have done. That just gives Racing a bad name in the mind of many non racegoers.

Majority of Australians are non horse racing punters except on Cup Day or when attending a meet. They would not give a rats if the races were banned etc. Look at hurdles in the country, very minor these days.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-22, 08:47 PM
I agree, it is a very unrealistic goal to home every thoroughbred in a top paddock, with all due care that all us supposed horse lovers and even horsemen regard as appropriate.
However, how do we now set in place a new regime where we honestly account for what happens after the racetrack
experience ?
If we decided the unwanted nag could get put down, at age 5, or 6, via a green dream, gently calmly done in a paddock the horse knows, now that would be a solution, not a good look in terms of promoting racing, but at least transparent, and cruelty free.
This cannot happen...the authorities and big players, Waller, Freedman, Body reps Assoc reps etc etc Racing NSW have already
made too many statements regards no thoroughbreds being unnecessarily euthanased...(but only in a knackery?)
The issue as to whether a "green dream" barbituate? contaminates the meat for consumption is also relevant, even if some would view that as a hideous issue to debate...
When the dust settles will we have a Federal Racing minister, a whole set of new rules and a transitional plan that involves massive change and indeed reduction in the industry as a whole...?
Interesting times, that I always knew were coming.....some very big statements and promises, lots of virtue signalling, lots of bullshyte "I didn't know this was happening..."..which will be accompanied by ridiculous proposals no doubt...
One article I read had someone proposing a $500 levy.....bwahahaha..what.?.feed for the first 3 months?
You see...they cannot propose the true figure because it means the party would be over!...yet they are all running round spruiking very high standards of tracking and expected level of care.. .the two positions will collide.
I raced a horse once, cost us 30 grand all up over 2 or 3 yrs trying to win a race...no good, of course..
She now lives with me, and I love and pat her every arvo...she is 17 years old...and she has cost my modest income family about
another 30,000 odd in the 14 years since racing..that's feed only, minimal vets, farrier etc...not the cost of land farm etc...so just imagine that cost loaded into the system somewhere...on EVERY horse.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-22, 08:54 PM
Good points Shogun. There is no easy solution and shooting the messenger as some have done on this forum and in the media does no favours to racing.

At the end of the day, if I was the government of any state, I would hit the industry through a levy on the sale of horses, prizemoney quarantine and a tax on the punters / gambling operators etc.

This would appease the animal right groups and majority of those involved in the race industry who love horses. Even a punter, I would have no issues with it.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-22, 09:51 PM
Thanks Jeunes.
The spread of the 'load' of ARC (after racing care) is an interesting one...the screaming as to who pays will always be a pretty loud show...
Maybe we all get less odds? Your 1.80 fave now pays only 1.60 so Noddy the Winner can have his hay 15 years out, knowing full well his trusty microchip and public registration and even address details all keep him monitored and safe until a vet finds a good and sound reason to put him down at 19 years of age.
Maybe all layers and levels pay...very messy...breeders themselves? The studs? The auction houses? The trainers and owners forced to fund , in advance, as well?
The mathematics are horrendous, should the very high standards and new compliance systems  (post investigations  and 'kick the abbatoir asshole' phase ) be actually implemented and monitored.
These equations are nearly unsolvable as far as maintaining the current industry.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-23, 06:21 AM
Guys, no one is “shooting the messenger”. Such a cliche is used to shut people down who have different views

The message was the problem. It was a constructed political lie.

I’m happy to have a discussion about the real issues. No one has denied things can be done differently. I have agreed to that that already but it seems to be ignored going by the above posts
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-23, 06:45 AM
Guys, no one is “shooting the messenger”. Such a cliche is used to shut people down who have different views

The message was the problem. It was a constructed political lie.

I’m happy to have a discussion about the real issues. No one has denied things can be done differently. I have agreed to that that already but it seems to be ignored going by the above posts

So Wily, I am confused with the “political lie” comment. Does this mean you think the ex racehorses were not sent to a knackery and footage was doctored.

An article below on one of the knackeries in NSW and RSPCA prosecution.

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-23/western-sydney-horse-knackery-guilty-animal-cruelty/11627696
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-23, 08:01 AM
What nonsense.
Plenty here going on about ABC with their tired paranoid views that ABC are some left wing ratbag organisation etc etc
Plenty here with ridiculously conflicted views.
Yeah but. Nah but.
Plenty here will not address the real issue, intimating the issue ain't a worry, ain't so big....
One moment you say we have no problem no over breeding, next minute you are willing to discuss real issues, whatever they really are to you..you deride my calculation as to the real costs, yet offer no counter argument or calculation or ideas.
How about some ideas on how this industry can achieve the agreed standards of care that everybody is defining as the minimum.?
No discussion, no ideas.
If you guys think all is ok..its all a beat up..you will be part of the ultimate demise of this game.
So come on..nows your chance to be clear fellas...list what you think needs to done clearly.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Oct-23, 08:05 AM
The second you were in possession of footage showing such cruelty to animals, and if you were genuinely concerned for the animal's welfare, you would turn the footage over to the RSPCA and get them to act.

But not if you are an "investigative" ABC reporter after fame and fortune.

No. In that case you hang on to it of two years and tell everyone it was "two years in the making".

Then by coincidence, the two years is up two days before The Everest.

The ABC must think we are all fools.

What a disgraceful act of "proxy" abuse of animals.

The ABC should be investigated as part of a wider investigation into the animal cruelty displayed by hidden camera at Caboolture.

There is no evidence of inhumane suffering of animals at Luddenham, although the creepy music might give you the impression that there was.

Even so, under the rules ex NSW racehorses should not end up at Luddenham and Racing NSW have said they will investigate it.

I've said this all along PP & it was the same with the greyhounds and Live export. Seems it's ok as it's for the story.  :bulb: Some seem to want you believe that's ok but 2 wrongs don't make it right imho.

I brought my mince from Burns Pet Foods & more recently from Luddenham, it's not like it's hidden, the track down runs straight past the paddocks - they aren't there for pony rides  :/ The place is always spotlessly clean & the people friendly.

I haven't been into Burns in a while but drive past regularly, again you drive up the hill through the paddocks with livestock in full view.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Arsenal on 2019-Oct-23, 08:33 AM
The 7.30 Report interviewed QRIC Commissioner Ross Barnett last night on the slaughter house show screened last week.

This is a link to the 6 or so minutes of the interview followed by the transcript.

For what it's worth I think Barnett did a good job ....speaking plainly he sorted out the facts ... despite looking slightly camera shy.

 https://www.abc.net.au/7.30/inquiry-into-the-welfare-of-racehorses-announced/11629216

LEIGH SALES, PRESENTER: Ross Barnett, there is nothing that can be more central to the integrity of horse racing than the horses being treated well during their careers and then also when they retire.
There has been a clear failure here and the Racing Integrity Commission that you head shares a stake in that.
Why then should you be trusted to run the inquiry?
ROSS BARNETT, QLD RACING INTEGRITY COMMISSIONER: Well, Leigh, I think it is very important in these circumstances for everyone to understand that the responsibilities we have are very clear under our legislation.
We have responsibility to safeguard the welfare of racing animals across the three codes but that is during their career in racing.
Now along with everyone else in the industry we want to be a part of ensuring that animals post-racing are looked after as well as they possibly can be.
So we have come up with some initiatives to assist in the equine welfare space beyond what we were required to do.
LEIGH SALES: One of the abattoirs highlighted in last week's report was Meramist in Caboolture in Queensland. In the past two years, how many complaints have you received about them?
ROSS BARNETT: Look, as a result of our Report Something hotline and our relationship with Crime Stoppers, we do get reports from time to time about a range of animal welfare issues.
Specifically with respect to that abattoir we received four complaints but it wasn't about what was going on at the abattoir. It was more about the perceived poor treatment of animals in transit.
Now in that regard we referred those reports back to the relevant agencies that we work with interstate. In three of those cases, and they satisfied themselves including the RSPCA, that all proper animal welfare standards had been observed.
With the fourth case we were able to satisfy ourselves that a horse that had been sent there, had in fact been re-homed successfully.
LEIGH SALES: Presumably the footage we obtained wasn't a one-time only aberration. That had to be the standard practice. How was that missed when the abattoir clearly was on the radar for whatever circumstances?
ROSS BARNETT: Well Leigh, obviously we don't have any control or authority over the operations of abattoirs in Queensland.
They are handled by other Commonwealth and state agencies.
So we simply have no visibility or responsibility for what happens there but we certainly do have responsibilities to make sure that animals, when they are taken there, are done so in a humane manner.
LEIGH SALES: Who does have control or authority over abattoirs and knackeries? Who can just show up unannounced to have a look at what's going on?
ROSS BARNETT: Look, my understanding Leigh, is because that is a Commonwealth accredited facility, the responsibility is shared between the Commonwealth and the state.
But the state government today announced it will be heading an inquiry and will be looking into the arrangements for those abattoirs at part of that inquiry.
LEIGH SALES: You point out that responsibilities are shared between the Commonwealth and the states. There are various state racing authorities, national and state sports ministers, agricultural ministers. Where does the buck ultimately stop? Who is ultimately responsible and if there is not one person or body that is responsible, how is this inquiry going to help?
ROSS BARNETT: Well, Leigh, I think it is always important to remember, yes there are a lot of stakeholders in this space but ultimately, the key stakeholder and decision maker is the owner of the animal.
The owner always retains the responsibility for disposing of their animal and they retain the right, if they wish, to sell that animal to an abattoir and that is something that we can't interfere with and so, ultimately, it is a shared responsibility but at its heart these are decisions made by owners.
LEIGH SALES: We have heard from some trainers and owners in recent days that they sometimes sell a horse, they think it is going to one place, it gets on-sold or it ends up somewhere other than where they think it is going. Is that something that can be avoided and how could horses be better tracked?
ROSS BARNETT: Look, there are discussions about a national traceability scheme and I think that is currently the subject of inquiry.
But as far as we are concerned, the only obligation that a licensed participant has under the rules of racing is to advise us when the animal is retired and once that happens, their obligations are met.
So it is a challenging area given the number of horses that enter and exit the industry and the geography of states like Queensland, traceability becomes a very significant logistic issue.
LEIGH SALES: The thing that people outside the racing industry find hard to believe is that people inside the industry don't know that this is going on, that they really don't know that racehorses end up in abattoirs and knackeries.
ROSS BARNETT: I think, Leigh, it is an inevitable reality. If you do the arithmetic about the number of animals and the appetite and market for re-homing, that it is inevitable that a number of animals each year are going to end up at an abattoir.
It is an uncomfortable reality and it is something that people probably don't like to focus on.
They have a vision of animals living their life out in very pleasurable circumstances and we'd like that to happen in every case but sadly, that's not the reality.
But quality of life does not always equate to length of life and sometimes, in certain circumstances, it might be considered that the humane euthanasia of an animal in an abattoir might be the best outcome for that animal.
LEIGH SALES: Is it part of the problem that people don't like to focus on this, that we like to focus on the fun of racing carnivals and the thrill of the sport and so forth, but not actually put a lot of thought into what might happen later?
ROSS BARNETT: Well, Leigh, in Queensland, I think the figures are something like 12,000 horses are foaled a year.
We have currently at the commission, we register around the same number, 12,000-odd active racehorses.
As they exit the industry they have a relatively short racing life as compared to their natural life so it is inevitable that there is not going to be the market for the re-homing of every single animal and that is just the reality.
And we have to accept that and work out that if that can't be done in every case, what is the most humane other alternative?
LEIGH SALES: Ross Barnett, thank you very much for your time today.
ROSS BARNETT: Thank you Leigh.
Related
Inquiry into the welfare of racehorses announced by the Queensland government
7.30 Report

Giddy Up :beer:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2019-Oct-23, 08:35 AM
All contributors to this thread agree that all livestock ( horses pigs, cattle, sheep etc ) should be euthanized  humanely and with respect. All livestock become aware of their fate once they see their fellow creatures being killed. They all are extremely scared and terrorized. So how can terrorized animals avoid being lined up behind each other in a queue  with death staring them in the eyes ?  I do not know the answer to that question, but until abattoirs can come up with a solution all animals will be terrorized in the moments before their death.

This reminds me when I have been to some Chinese restaurants and have noted water tanks with lobsters awaiting to be served to customers. If that lobster is dropped into boiling water it will  panic with pain and fear and try to climb out , however if it's placed into a pot of tepid water and the heat is turned on low, it will float there quite placidly. As the water gradually heats up the lobster will sink into a tranquil stupor, exactly as you might  in a hot bath, and before long , with no resistance allow itself to be boiled to death.


If all livestock could face a humane fate as that lobster in tepid water, they would be euthanized humanely, respectively and without fear, but I am not holding my breathe to await a solution.



Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-23, 09:04 AM
And so again we have people here congratulating each other on their irrelevancies and side issues.
It's called investigative reporting guys, building a case, and the strategic timing of the release is probably aligned with spring carnival for maximum effect.
Get over it...it is not the central issue.
Again we have a comment which intimates that all is ok, the abbatoir is clean, waffle waffle waffle.
The footage did not have to be horrific in every case did it?
Why can you fence sitters  not understand that Racing NSW has already moved on.?
The public in general terms are not prepared to have racehorses go to the knackery .
So Racing NSW several years back set this rule.
Now, whether you agree with that is up to you...and of course we could debate the inherent silliness in treating one animal differently to another and the ethical inconsistency.
This simply misses the point.
We have to absorb, and live with, and understand the minimum ARC standards that nearly all players in the game have quite rapidly come together on...and try to work out how these motherhood statements can be practically implemented.
I am not sure they can....not easily anyways, as many will lose livelihood and lots of dosh.
Always back self interest...so the debate will be heated.
What if a retired judge advises a future Federal Racing Minister that the whole game is fundamentally flawed in relation to its business model of breed, train,  test, race , discard .?
What if that Minister then implements major change?
Interesting times alright.
Bubba, I have already quite clearly outlined how a racehorse should be killed.
I have also noted that maybe the injection would taint the meat and carcass could not be processed for meat.
It's easy...kill em at home,probably discreetly a little way away from mates view,  bury them.
Owners would have to arrange it, authorities notified, qualified vet does the job.
Why is it hard? Again, the imagery or philosophical problem with breeding racing discarding killing is gonna be a persistent problem.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: napes on 2019-Oct-23, 09:43 AM
Shogun, you say the industry has moved on, but that is all window dressing to appease the dreamers.

The planet cannot support the human population that we will have in a few generations, but you want animals to have retirement villas.

You still haven't addressed the hypocrisy of an animal with a name being more important than one without.

When I die my body will be utilized for the betterment of society but you want these animals wasted because they have a name?

The real issue is rolling over without a fight, because the only thing these people want is to stop racing altogether!!!

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-23, 11:20 AM
You aren't reading very carefully Napes.
Keep on criticising me, it has nothing to do with my personal view or my personal decisions regards my horses.
You would rather I had killed my mare years ago?
What are you saying exactly...? That anyone who thinks a that racehorse deserves a paddock and feed after racing is unrealistic weirdo?
I am telling you all what you don't want to hear, have been for years, and so off you go as if I am the cause not the messenger...
For the fifth time: listen to what industry heads in all forms are saying.
Not me.
Them.
The hypocracy you allege is there, and I have already acknowledged that fully..but it is not up to me to justify anything.
The public, rightly or wrongly, have a strong position that we shouldn't breed ,race ,then kill em.
The industry, reluctantly maybe, but almost unanimously , have agreed.
I have already noted suggestions regards acceptable killing for most...but none of you address the underlying obvious basic driver of this whole debate...
Average people think the racing game is a bit suss anyway, and they don't think it's ok to breed an animal for a try at some prize, then kill it when it fails or even after it wins. The industry seems to sniff the wind and agree. Simple really.


Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-23, 11:21 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/23/vet-queensland-horse-abattoir-nine-animal-welfare-reports
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: napes on 2019-Oct-23, 11:51 AM
Shogun
I don't believe I have criticized you at all. Your treatment of your horses are your decisions and no-one should have the right to criticize that decision.

As no-one should have the right to criticize those who choose to farm their animals in a humane manner to achieve maximum benefit.

I myself prefer to house my horses in a useful manner with people who love them and care for them and ride them for pleasure, but I am realistic enough to realize all horses aren't suitable to be re-homed.

What I am saying EXACTLY is that any person who thinks that every ANIMAL deserves a paddock and feed for the rest of their natural life is an unrealistic wierdo.

What I am saying exactly is giving an animal a name shouldn't change its status.

What I am saying is instead of pandering to Joe Public and his hypocrisy, educate him as to where his food comes from.

The more rights you give up the less rights you have.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-23, 12:51 PM
Fair enough..I mean you are criticizing my position on some things.
Without labouring the point, it's not my views, it's the majority view.
So, pushback as much as you want.
Freedoms?
Freedom to kill your horse if you want.
Really? Nobody should be able to tell you what to do with your animals?
These views are antiquated and wrong mate.
By the way, we don't eat racehorses......so 'educating' the public about their steaks or chops, is hardly relevant is it?
Yep...I eat meat...cannot see how this relates.
Rightly or wrongly, most of us DO feel differently about the death of a Hereford bred and raised for its meat, and a nag bred and raised on the very unlikely dream of a horse that can pay for itself.
We name our pet German shepherd Duke and love him more than our mother, and we worry not if a mate misses and only wounds the wild dog we see skulking in the paddock...thats human nature...we delineate, discern, sometimes without a deeply consistent 'ethical' basis.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: napes on 2019-Oct-23, 01:22 PM
Without labouring the point. It is your views! And you assume it is the majority view.

As we found in the US where the assumed majority view is, Trump is an idiot with no hope of election, assumptions count for nothing.

And to not pushback means there is no debate.

By the way these horses were butchered for human consumption in Asia so it very much does relate. And why do you decide what we can and can't eat? I wonder if your family was starving if your view would change?

I can certainly understand the bond people have with animals and hopefully your mother doesn't read this forum, but it's not your horse or dog that is being consumed. What if that wild dog your mate wounds was someones Duke? Why did it deserve to be wounded and die a slow death where Duke gets to sleep in your mothers bed?

There is nothing personal in my argument and hope you don't take offence.

And yes I believe you should have the right to kill your horse, humanely, as you would your hereford. I personally would make all attempts not to do so, but I wouldn't judge people who do.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-23, 02:34 PM
So shogun, you’ve answered the question ive been asking.

You really are happy to have cows slaughtered for you eating pleasure but refuse to let others do so with horses
Is that a correct reading of your views?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-23, 02:59 PM
You guys really need to go back to what I am saying...not as a personal view, but my reading of what the majority view is in this country and the majority of the racing industry  reps who have spoken this week.
Nice to have Trump the lunatic quoted as having majority of Americans behind him...he got less votes...
Are you really that simple?
Wiles, you think you have your gotcha moment...good for you.
You won't discuss the problems just get all nit picky and misread what I write.

The majority of the public feel that way..who cares what I think....

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-23, 03:19 PM
Shogie, don5 be defensive it wasn’t a gotcha moment. I don’t debate like that. I Just wanting clarity as it goes to oneof my main  points on the issue
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Oct-23, 03:23 PM
Even here on a racehorse forum,  Shogun Lodge's view is in the majority so good luck selling the other message to the world.

The racing industry has got to do better.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-23, 05:55 PM
f one of the commercial
Channels or better still Alan Jones released this report, most criticising ABC would be patting them on their back for investigative journalism and social equality fight. Let’s get real, most and not all who are critical of the ABC have a political lean to their preferences.

I am still waiting for those who are critical of the ABC to give a summation of the News Corp story I posted. Exactly the same scenario but on the day of the Big Chase. So stop being hypocritical and face upto the facts of the wastage issue and stop wasting time on criticising the messenger.

Racing is governed by the almighty dollar in gambling and prizemoney. Let’s face it, majority of us are all punters on this forum. If there was no horse racing would we be punting?

Some of the work colleagues said how do I support a sport that is cruel to the animals. These were the same ones who were excited about Winx and came to a meet last year. That is the harsh reality of the world.

For those who say why do I eat meat, my answer is simple I don’t see it get slaughtered and it does not have names. Nearly all my Family and work colleagues refuse to eat veal. Most of us in our 30s and upwards will remember the veal schnitzel or parmigiana but most youngsters won’t as it is too cruel for them. Life has changed and we need to adapt otherwise the decision will be taken away from us. Horse racing is irrelevant for most not in the industry or don’t bet.

Racing authorities have to get on the forefront especially the NSW and Victorian bodies.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2019-Oct-23, 07:13 PM
This was published nine years ago.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/ipad/best-of-saweekend-an-unpalatable-truth/news-story/d88026a7cbabe459c478c18b74331e35?sv=d31c9aba081d4e93e9cb5d045d5a8cbb
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Oct-23, 07:27 PM


..... time for time out on this thread
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-23, 08:28 PM

..... time for time out on this thread

I would be careful when you say that as people may pounce on this.  :lol:   :lol:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-23, 09:37 PM
Wow Bubba, thank you for finding that article from 2010.
Very interesting read particularly the stuff about all studmasters and trainers 'having his number'.
Makes all the public denial from leading players seem a bit suspect.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-24, 06:02 AM

I am still waiting for those who are critical of the ABC to give a summation of the News Corp story I posted. Exactly the same scenario but on the day of the Big Chase. So stop being hypocritical and face upto the facts of the wastage issue and stop wasting time on criticising the messenger.


I've been critical of News Corp quite often.

But this thread is specifically about the sensationalist 7.30 report.

I've got two questions - would appreciate specific answers and not generalizations and obfuscations.

i) Why was this shown 2 days before The Everest?

ii) If you want to report animal cruelty, shouldn't you report it as soon as the evidence presents itself to immediately prevent further cruelty?

Simple questions really.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-24, 06:46 AM
But PP........that’s all just distraction by you🤪
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Oct-24, 07:04 AM
They may be just simple questions but they are also stupid ones.

Of course the timing was directed at racing's biggest time of the year, not just in NSW, Vic as well.

Stories about animal cruelty at abattoirs are a fairly regular event now and don't seem to have a lot of impact.
This is about an industry that goes to extraordinary lengths about it's welfare and protection of it's most valued participants, ie the horses.

Anybody that puts a closer eye to racing can see it is a cruel industry and a story like this was a long time coming.

Give P V'Landys some credit here because he warned the breeders in that video that's a few years old now about just this...."you can't keep doing what you have been doing all your life, times have changed"

I've supported racing for around 50 years but I find these days I don't feel the same about it.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: napes on 2019-Oct-24, 09:58 AM

Are you really that simple?


Now who's getting personal?

At least I am happy to stand behind my argument and don't pretend I know what the majority want. I am happy to argue against the majority.

No response as to why Duke is a protected species but his cousin is left to die a slow painful death with no concern?

Your view, (not necessarily the silent majority), your view,  that some animal species, and in fact some members of the same animal species, deserve better treatment than others, I find baffling.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-24, 11:04 AM
They may be just simple questions but they are also stupid ones.


That's pretty much what Bill Shorten said when people asked him to cost his climate change initiatives   :lol:

Of course it was his way of getting out of answering the question.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-24, 01:39 PM
That's pretty much what Bill Shorten said when people asked him to cost his climate change initiatives    :lol:  

Of course it was his way of getting out of answering the question.

I've been critical of News Corp quite often.

But this thread is specifically about the sensationalist 7.30 report.

I've got two questions - would appreciate specific answers and not generalizations and obfuscations.

i) Why was this shown 2 days before The Everest?

ii) If you want to report animal cruelty, shouldn't you report it as soon as the evidence presents itself to immediately prevent further cruelty?

Simple questions really.

I am confused why Bill is in this topic but not a discussion about News Corp.   :lol:   :lol:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Authorized on 2019-Oct-24, 03:02 PM

Calls for royal commission into racing industry after emails show Racing NSW was told about prohibited thoroughbred sales

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Oct-24, 04:14 PM

The ABC is promoting

......... a compulsory birth-to-natural-death entitlement to care for all racehorses enforced by the federal government

The beat up is out of hand!
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-24, 05:01 PM
The ABC is promoting

......... a compulsory birth-to-natural-death entitlement to care for all racehorses enforced by the federal government

The beat up is out of hand!

No issue with the fact that Racing NSW could not do a proper ABN search???

Might explain why Victoria Racing is so tainted while NSW is Snow White.

Racing NSW and Vlandys position is nothing to see here as they are in Victoria. Their statement is a lie and it shows either they chose to ignore or are inept.

Easy choice but let’s blame ABC.

Also what about below or is that an ABC lie too?


..... time for time out on this thread
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Arsenal on 2019-Oct-24, 07:28 PM
Question Time in State Parliament this morning

Minister for Agricultural Industry Development and Fisheries, Meramist Abattoir
Mr PERRETT: My question without notice is to the Premier. It was revealed yesterday that a vet employed by the federal department of agriculture had sent nine complaints to minister Furner's department this year alone about the treatment of horses at Meramist, but no action was taken in response.
 Will the Premier stand down minister Furner and order the QREC investigation to look into his apparent failure to respond to these multiple complaints and to determine how many other complaints he might have ignored?
Government members interjected. Mr SPEAKER: Members to my right, this will be the last warning about questions. I ask you to stay silent during those questions being asked.
 Ms PALASZCZUK: On this side of the House we support the best agriculture minister there has been. Opposition members interjected.
 Mr SPEAKER: Order! An honourable member: Since Henry. Ms PALASZCZUK: Since Henry! They are both the farmer’s friend. There is no better advocate for agriculture, the impact of drought and animal welfare in Queensland than minister Furner.
 I absolutely support the work that he doing. As I said in this House, he is back out to Longreach—I do not know how many times—almost every month. Minister Furner has taken absolutely strong action 24 Oct 2019
 Questions Without Notice 3631 when it comes to what we saw in relation to the 7.30 program. Let me remind those opposite that the abattoir is actually under the federal export power and is regulated— Opposition members interjected.
 Mr SPEAKER: Order! Ms PALASZCZUK: They do not like the facts. It is regulated by the federal government under the export power. Perhaps some questions need to be raised about what surveillance has been done by the federal government?
As I said, minister Furner and minister Hinchliffe took absolutely strong action in relation to this issue. I hope the federal government takes action just as strong as this government.


Meramist Abattoir, Complaints 24 Oct 2019 Questions Without Notice 3633
 Mr MILLAR: My question is to the Minister for Agricultural Industry Development. What action did the minister take to ensure animal welfare after he received nine complaints from a federal government vet about the treatment of animals at Meramist?
Mr FURNER: Everyone in this chamber should be appalled of that footage on the 7.30 program that was aired last Thursday, but to come in here and play politics on the treatment of animals and the welfare of those animals is abhorrent. Government members interjected.
 Mr SPEAKER: Pause the clock. Minister, resume your seat. Member for Gregory, you are warned under the standing orders.
Mr FURNER: The Premier did the right thing with respect to this matter on Tuesday, the first sitting day of this week, by calling for an inquiry into not only the animal welfare of those horses but also the racing industry in respect of those horses that came from New South Wales under a failed scheme.
 Their rules and their processing should have protected those horses moving to an export facility that exports horse meat to locations around the world. It was a privilege to be with Minister Hinchliffe later on Tuesday afternoon with many representatives and stakeholders of the racing industry to commence that process of investigating this abhorrent act.
 I can inform the member for Lockyer that—and I will do this with respect to the comments made by the member for Gympie as well— Government members interjected.
 Mr FURNER: Sorry; the member for Gregory. He hardly asks a question, and that is why I very rarely get a chance to respond to him. It is good to hear a question for once on agriculture from the true shadow minister for agriculture.
 As this is an ongoing investigation, I can advise the House that there were six horse related referrals in 2017 involving 16 horses, six of those in 2018 involving 12 horses and eight in 2019 involving 14 horses.
 There have been five cases in 2019, including the cattle case, relating to animals in poor condition considered unfit to load and three cases relating to animals suffering injuries either occurring during transit or prior to transit.
 Six cases have been investigated and have been finalised. Two cases are still under investigation and details of four of the cases were referred to interstate jurisdictions to follow up.
 Once again, to make sure that the chamber is aware of the complexity of this matter, as this is an export abattoir, this matter falls under the Commonwealth jurisdiction as well. That is why I wrote to the responsible minister on Tuesday asking for this matter to be on the agenda tomorrow at the AGMIN portfolio meeting where every minister from the Commonwealth—
Time Expired
Giddy Up :beer:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-25, 09:52 AM
Will the welfare mob or the ABC be at the Echuca sales today......I doubt it
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Oct-25, 10:39 AM
Who knows Wily but with only one thoroughbred in the catalogue........probably not.

One of the issues here is Racing Vic, like RNSW  don't send anybody to these sales as well.

Only one thoroughbred listed.?.......wonder why that is?.......in the current climate I'm tipping he won't be going to a kill-buyer.

Few standardbreds though. 

Correction re Echuca, 1 TB gelding and 1 TB mare.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-25, 12:00 PM
Will the welfare mob or the ABC be at the Echuca sales today......I doubt it

ABC won't be there.

They have finished their revenge shot at V'Landys over the castigation of their Arts mate Louise Herron (Opera House thing last year where she started a fight with Racing NSW over putting up a few images on there at night - doesn't seem to worry them during other events like Vivid and other promotions but it is a "cruelty to horses thing" - not unlike Taylor Swift).

In hindsight, very little was revealed on the show about NSW and even less about Racing NSW.

There are over 10,000 racehorses retired each year in NSW and from what we can work out amongst the inaccuracies and creepy music a few were sold at the Camden Sales (which are not on the approved list for Thoroughbreds) to the doggers.

All of the horrible footage was from Queensland.

So you have to ask yourself why has Peter V'Landys become the centre of attention in this? To the objective observer all the really nasty stuff was in Qld.

As I have been saying all along - there is a bit more to this than meets the eye.

Reporter went to Loreto. We know most of the ABC elite sip lattes in the inner city. They look after their own and have long memories.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-25, 12:26 PM
Will the welfare mob or the ABC be at the Echuca sales today......I doubt it

Why the ABC? Did not realise it was their role to monitor this.

Maybe they should spend their time in giving Racing NSW lessons on how to search for ABNs.

Daily Telegraph had a beautiful fluff piece on the horse that ABC that went to the sales etc and was bought by an ex owner. No real reference to the ABN issue than a few lines but 95% of the story was on the Real Kingdom and a great picture.

No mention of the fact that Surf Livesavers NSW declined to have a fund raiser on Bondi Stakes day as some members did not want to be associated with the event but to be fair they also said timing was too soon. The anticipated barrier draw / launch scheduled for this week at Bondi was cancelled but no reason given by Racing NSW.

The ads are still on the Tele for the big races so the spin is on.

The spin is on.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-25, 12:58 PM
Why the ABC? Did not realise it was their role to monitor this.


I’m sure it’s not in their interest given there’s over 100 horses being slaughtered with only 2 being thoroughbreds

I thought we were all against horses being sold, potentially to the doggers :chin:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-25, 02:01 PM
Napes, if you think Mr Trump represents some majority, I stand by my probably rude statement...are you, or your world view really that simple? Sorry for playing the man, how about a statement like "anyone buying into the story that Donald Trump represents a majority of Americans is simple in their world view and simple in their apparent inability to analyse plain facts"
Secondly, if you can settle and re read my little Duke story , I was alluding to the very hypocracy that you have your knickers in a knot about...suggesting that was generally what us humans do....we have funny, sometimes silly delineation between some species, or indeed, same species..
Now, how about these revelations proving Racing NSW knew.....errr....busted!
Now a bloody Royal Commision is coming maybe....

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Oct-25, 02:15 PM
Why the ABC? Did not realise it was their role to monitor this.


I’m sure it’s not in their interest given there’s over 100 horses being slaughtered with only 2 being thoroughbreds

I thought we were all against horses being sold, potentially to the doggers :chin:
Wily it doesn't sound like understand much of what goes on at Echuca.

Just because a horse is listed there does not mean it will automatically go for slaughter.

There have been winners that have come from the unreserved pens and a girl bought a sister to Mr Stunning there before he hit the big time for $480.

Still it must be said you would not want to be a thoroughbred or standardbred in the "surplus to industry requirements" pen.

It generally means you will be on the Caboolture truck and that was the one in the ABC story where the unloading methods wouldn't pass any test.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-25, 04:00 PM
Thanks Nem. Of interest is that only 2 of the 100 were thoroughbreds
Does anyone have the figures that shows what % of horses going to slaughter yards and such are actually throroughbreds.

From my viewing of the Echuca and similar sales it would be less than 10%, at a guess.
It's  my belief that the massive majority of horses being slaughtered are not ex race horses..........................as the ABC tried to tell the mug TV viewer
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-25, 04:43 PM
What part of the doco stated majority of slaughtered horses in Aus were racehorses?
I thought it was showing the "large number in one truck" type evidence to fully put to bed the notion that none or very, very few thoroughbreds were being sent to the knackery after the flurry of Racing NSW changes in 2017 with all its grand statements.
Happy to be corrected Wiles, but thought I watched the lot, and don't remember even an inference of that in the report...
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-25, 04:52 PM
Shogun, sometimes it is a waste of time with pointing the bleeding obvious as the ABC has shown.

People choose to attack the messenger as it is much easier than to criticise Racing bodies and execs such as Vlandys. The fact that they bring politics etc in shows a closeted mind.

I don’t see any explanation of why the Bondi media event was suddenly cancelled. Love to see if the ABC haters can shed some light on this. It is this type of head in the sand that has alienated people especially the youngsters and the misguided attack on the ABC for producing this report. What hypocrisy.

Peter Mair May get his so called inquiry into Racing as he wanted in some states. Unfortunately for him and others, it was because of the ABC.

Time to clean up our beloved sport a bit so we can wager in the future.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Arsenal on 2019-Oct-25, 05:42 PM
The Eucha Sales catalogue today has pictures and some details of breeding for the thoroughbreds and standardbreds on offer the few I looked at were in very poor condition neglected and in need of vet attention.

Giddy Up :beer:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-25, 07:37 PM
What part of the doco stated majority of slaughtered horses in Aus were racehorses?


The whole bloody show was slanted to slag off the racing industry.
Vlandys and racing were the bookie man
That’s despite the massive majority of horses being slaughtered are NOT ex racehorses. I repeat, the massive majority of horses are NOT ex racehorses but the other breeds don’t have the media shock factor :tin:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-25, 07:38 PM
The Eucha Sales catalogue today has pictures and some details of breeding for the thoroughbreds and standardbreds on offer the few I looked at were in very poor condition neglected and in need of vet attention.

Giddy Up :beer:

The 2 thoroughbreds in the sale do NOT fit your description
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Oct-25, 07:58 PM
There was in fact 4 TB mares at Echuca today......Apologies for my earlier error.

Rather incredibly in this climate Charlie's Gem and Elitash had raced within the last fortnight and there are reports were still wearing race plates.

Not sure if it is an act of defiance or an act of utter stupidity but someone has got to be kidding.

There was also an 18 year old son of Umatilla there.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-25, 09:05 PM
Link below to Echuca sales.

https://www.andrewwilsonco.com/catalogueechuca

If we can find it, wonder how the Racing bodies can’t.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-25, 09:11 PM
Shogun, sometimes it is a waste of time with pointing the bleeding obvious as the ABC has shown.

People choose to attack the messenger as it is much easier than to criticise Racing bodies and execs such as Vlandys. The fact that they bring politics etc in shows a closeted mind.


Shooting the messenger is a cliche that doesn't apply here.

Try and look at it this way.

You are an Investigative reporter who loves animals.

You have seen several horses sold at the Camden sales being loaded on to a truck and you follow it to Luddenham.

What do you do?

Me. I'd be on the phone to the RSPCA asking them to use their powers to stop the slaughter because I love the horses and don't want to see them slaughtered.

What did the actual reporter with the upper class hyphenated surname do?

From what we can tell, sweet fanny adams.

She wasn't going to lose her "story" for anything. She is guilty of animal abuse by her inaction. I hope she sleeps well at night.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-25, 09:37 PM
It looks like the Racing Bodies decided to follow a leftist media report.

The ABC haters must be having a fit as some of the other media chose to ignore the issue and until they got the go ahead to promote the welfare aspect of Racing.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/superracing/racing-bodies-unite-to-stamp-out-horse-cruelty/news-story/2fb44cc35343c57b38ba8aab7b06d2f9
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-25, 09:46 PM
It looks like the Racing Bodies decided to follow a leftist media report.

The ABC haters must be having a fit as some of the other media chose to ignore the issue and until they got the go ahead to promote the welfare aspect of Racing.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/superracing/racing-bodies-unite-to-stamp-out-horse-cruelty/news-story/2fb44cc35343c57b38ba8aab7b06d2f9

First sentence:

Racing Australia is pushing for the introduction of a national prizemoney and sales levy to fund welfare programs for retired racehorses.

NSW and Victoria already do this. Why would you have this sentence in your report and not acknowledge that?

Either you (the reporter) are uninformed, or you are doing it deliberately to mislead the public and make out that there is nothing being done.

“People who work across the Thoroughbred industry share the public’s outrage at the recently identified cruel and inhumane treatment of horses at a Queensland abattoir,” Racing Australia chairman Greg Nichols said.

Thank you for someone in the media (social and mainstream) for acknowledging the worst of the worst in the report was in Queensland and had very little to do with NSW even though the PVL haters just bang on and on and on and on as if he was the problem.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-25, 10:04 PM
PP, you better take the article up with News Corp.They are a bastion of respectable and unbiased journalism so will eagerly retract any wrong statements unlike the leftist ABC.

You refer to the worst in Qld ( I agree) but fail to acknowledge the abysmal work of the Racing NSW integrity unit in regards to the ABN when a complaint was referred to them. Funnily not mentioned in the News Corp article.

No mention in the Racing media why did the event in Bondi get cancelled or any comments regarding Surf Lifesavers taking a stand.

So whose responsibility is to answer the questions and face upto an open media session?  Or is the popular option is take an approach of nothing to see here and keep partying.

That seems the general attitude of Racing bodies in some states until they were facing a Qld type of inquiry which may have uncovered a whole lot more issues but we will never know now.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-26, 08:07 AM
PP, how about thinking about the fact that reports WERE being made to authorities who were ignoring them...by other members of industry and public...now proven.
It really is the height of naivity to think investigative journos are gonna blow their load prior to constructing the story and having it released...
Wiles, you make no point regards thoroughbreds vs other horses.
The slaughter of thoroughbreds is the focus.
Get over it.
We all know it's a bit silly, hypocritical...
Perhaps you guys could offer suggestions on how to move forward within the new landscape..
The current NSW levy is a joke, that's why it is being downplayed, ignored.
Like I said...a 50 grand cost needs to be sorted, as that is what it costs, and that is what is required for the "new standard"..ie lifetime monitoring and adequate lifetime care.
Good luck, industry.
Answers:
Reduce racing events by 80% transitionally
Only 40 sires licenced...compulsory retirement of stallions after 5 years serving
Only 100 serves per stallion per annum
50k bond on every foal bred
No whipping

The future... good luck!

Thoughtful article for Wiles Napes and others
https://theconversation.com/its-not-just-about-your-feelings-ok-the-best-end-for-a-racehorse-might-be-the-knackery-125738

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Oct-26, 09:29 AM
The 5 thoroughbreds that went through Echuca yesterday were all sold to private homes.

The old Umatilla boy, McGugan might have benefited by the extra publicity.

Back in the day P Burns of Burns Pet Foods was the most prominent of buyers at Inglis mixed bloodstock sales in NSW.....tried horses, unbroken, broodmares and even stallions.
$100, $200, whatever, there he was.

I was always surprised that racing could be so brazen in this regard.

Whoever came up with the Fitzgeral Pastoral Co. and Fitzgerald Pastoral Co stunt needs to be exposed but surely a nice little arrangement between Inglis and RNSW.

Anybody caught out trying to hoodwink the public deserves what they get.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-26, 12:47 PM
#cominoutofthewoodwork !
Lloyd calls for whips to go, totally.
https://www.racenet.com.au/news/lloyd-williams-calls-for-whips-to-be-outlawed-20191023
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-26, 12:59 PM
#cominoutofthewoodwork !
Lloyd calls for whips to go, totally.
https://www.racenet.com.au/news/lloyd-williams-calls-for-whips-to-be-outlawed-20191023

Does not count for some as he has been against Vlandys and co.   :lol:   :lol:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Oct-26, 01:09 PM
Shogun
I don't believe I have criticized you at all. Your treatment of your horses are your decisions and no-one should have the right to criticize that decision.

As no-one should have the right to criticize those who choose to farm their animals in a humane manner to achieve maximum benefit.

I myself prefer to house my horses in a useful manner with people who love them and care for them and ride them for pleasure, but I am realistic enough to realize all horses aren't suitable to be re-homed.

What I am saying EXACTLY is that any person who thinks that every ANIMAL deserves a paddock and feed for the rest of their natural life is an unrealistic wierdo.

What I am saying exactly is giving an animal a name shouldn't change its status.

What I am saying is instead of pandering to Joe Public and his hypocrisy, educate him as to where his food comes from.

The more rights you give up the less rights you have.

So well said napes  :clap2:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Oct-26, 01:39 PM


I am still waiting for those who are critical of the ABC to give a summation of the News Corp story I posted. Exactly the same scenario but on the day of the Big Chase. So stop being hypocritical and face upto the facts of the wastage issue and stop wasting time on criticising the messenger.



Jeunes I'm fairly sure I responded to that article and I simply dismissed it as it's flawed in the most basic sense. T

he author implied that adoption numbers don't match the number bred. He made zero allowance to any dog retained or homed by the owner of which the vast majority would be. He implied that ever dog that finished racing would go through GAP. It also failed to mention that GRNSW have whole of life tracking, did he bother to check this?

It was a poorly researched piece based on simplistic maths written by someone who has zero understanding of the industry. Pretty much how the McHugh report was formed really  :shutup:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Oct-26, 01:56 PM
Shooting the messenger is a cliche that doesn't apply here.

Try and look at it this way.

You are an Investigative reporter who loves animals.

You have seen several horses sold at the Camden sales being loaded on to a truck and you follow it to Luddenham.

What do you do?

Me. I'd be on the phone to the RSPCA asking them to use their powers to stop the slaughter because I love the horses and don't want to see them slaughtered.

What did the actual reporter with the upper class hyphenated surname do?

From what we can tell, sweet fanny adams.

She wasn't going to lose her "story" for anything. She is guilty of animal abuse by her inaction. I hope she sleeps well at night.

You know what will happy PP? She'll get a bloody award!

She's a hypocrite of the highest order but that doesn't seem to count when you're an 'investigative reporter'  :shutup:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-26, 02:50 PM
Those that I refer to as the general public have already forgotten about it and moved on.
Those on the fringe of the industry and the dishonest welfare mob are the only voices of dissent.
The smart people in the industry will put some systems in place. Sensible systems not hand whringing nonsense
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-26, 03:30 PM
Those that I refer to as the general public have already forgotten about it and moved on.
Those on the fringe of the industry and the dishonest welfare mob are the only voices of dissent.
The smart people in the industry will put some systems in place. Sensible systems not hand whringing nonsense

So Wily, what are the Surf Lifesavers? Fringe of the industry or a dishonest welfare mob? Partial reason to pull out was the welfare issue. Wonder why Racing NSW did not publicise this.

Anyone who wants changes to horse racing is considered a nut.  You can be a gambler, eat meat and look at animal welfare too. A racing fan is a racing fan.

At least we have Racing bodies now looking at more of a solution which was not even on the horizon before.

Article below about an outstanding group which the hypocrital ABC bashers choose to ignore.

Surf Life Saving NSW cancels Bondi Stakes fundraiser amid horse welfare crisis

By Adam Pengilly
October 24, 2019 — 8.00pm
Surf Life Saving NSW turned down the chance for a fundraiser at Randwick's $1 million Bondi Stakes meeting on Saturday after some of its members expressed dismay at horse racing's animal welfare crisis.
The organisation was considered a perfect partner to help Racing NSW and the Australian Turf Club promote the inaugural race, which has been added to the Sydney spring carnival.

There were advanced plans for the raceday to be trumpeted in a media call on Bondi Beach, but they were abandoned at the 11th hour. No official agreement had been signed.
It is the latest blow for thoroughbred racing officials, who have been grappling with the fallout from the ABC 7:30 expose about former racehorses being inhumanely slaughtered at a Queensland abattoir.


Surf Life Saving NSW stressed it still wanted to have an association with the racing industry and its decision was only partly made due to animal welfare concerns, but the development is another example of the fight the code faces to placate partner organisations and corporates.
In a statement provided to the Herald, Surf Life Saving NSW chief executive officer Steven Pearce said: "As a registered charity and volunteer organisation, Surf Life Saving NSW is grateful to Racing NSW for offering us the opportunity to fund raise at the Bondi Stakes race event at Randwick on 26 October.
Surf Life Saving NSW looks forward to partnering with Racing NSW on fundraising activities in the future if the opportunity arises
Steven Pearce
"Surf Life Saving NSW and Racing NSW had planned to promote the Bondi Stakes at Bondi Beach this week, however due to a number of factors, a decision was made not to participate in the promotional event or in fundraising activities at Randwick this Saturday.
"Challenges included coordinating volunteer lifesavers to collect donations at the raceday at short notice and other logistics around finalising an agreement between SLSNSW and Racing NSW.

"Another consideration in the decision not to participate was concerns raised by some of our members relating to the broadcast of a story on the ABC’s 7.30 program, critical of the treatment of racehorses in NSW and Queensland.
"Surf Life Saving NSW looks forward to partnering with Racing NSW on fundraising activities in the future if the opportunity arises."

Surf Life Saving NSW CEO Steven Pearce's organisation has pulled out of a planned fundraiser at the Bondi Stakes meeting.
The Bondi Stakes is part of an extended NSW spring carnival, which will also include the $7.5 million Golden Eagle at Rosehill next weekend and $1 million races in both Newcastle and Wollongong during November.
The Bondi Stakes has struggled to attract a high quality field of three-year-olds this year, but many trainers contacted by the Herald said they would be better equipped to program horses for the event next year.

The race is part of a NSW assault on Victoria's traditional spring carnival, which will continue with the $5 million Cox Plate at Moonee Valley on Saturday.

The Golden Eagle will be run on the same day as Flemington's time-honoured Derby Day meeting while the enhanced Golden Gift, which will carry a $1 million purse, will be run for two-year-olds on the final day of the Melbourne Cup carnival.
One of the country's most recognisable racing figures, six-time Melbourne Cup-winning owner Lloyd Williams, leant his voice to the welfare debate when he urged Australian racing authorities to immediately ban the use of the whip.
Jockeys are only allowed to strike a horse five times before the 100-metre mark of any race before having unlimited use in the final stages of a race.

The NSW Trainers Association has proposed the rule be amended to somewhere between five to seven strikes in total, but Williams wants to go a step further on an issue which has divided some of Australia's biggest racing identities.
Racing NSW has been actively purchasing properties around the state for several years to home retired racehorses, stressing their welfare initiatives will only be enhanced in the future.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-26, 03:34 PM
Jeunes I'm fairly sure I responded to that article and I simply dismissed it as it's flawed in the most basic sense. T

he author implied that adoption numbers don't match the number bred. He made zero allowance to any dog retained or homed by the owner of which the vast majority would be. He implied that ever dog that finished racing would go through GAP. It also failed to mention that GRNSW have whole of life tracking, did he bother to check this?

It was a poorly researched piece based on simplistic maths written by someone who has zero understanding of the industry. Pretty much how the McHugh report was formed really  :shutup:

What about the timing, Gin? The ABC was lambasted by some as trying to spoil the Everest.

Any views why the News Corp article appeared on the day of the Chase?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-26, 03:41 PM
My cousins a surf life saver and hasn’t a brain in his head
Why on gods name should their opinion matter....especially when it’s wrong.....in my humble opinion
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Oct-26, 04:20 PM
Those that I refer to as the general public have already forgotten about it and moved on.
Those on the fringe of the industry and the dishonest welfare mob are the only voices of dissent.
The smart people in the industry will put some systems in place. Sensible systems not hand whringing nonsense
Not sure if this is based on something you heard on Macquarie radio, read in the Murdoch press or just your gut feel but Racing Administrators certainly won't be dismissing the threat here.

I'm sure Racing Vic will be disappointed in the crowd today......no Winx will be the call but turnover and sponsorships will determine racing's future.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-26, 04:37 PM
My cousins a surf life saver and hasn’t a brain in his head
Why on gods name should their opinion matter....especially when it’s wrong.....in my humble opinion

Good try to deflect but it is funny.  :lol:   :lol:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-26, 04:41 PM
Not sure if this is based on something you heard on Macquarie radio, read in the Murdoch press or just your gut feel but Racing Administrators certainly won't be dismissing the threat here.

I'm sure Racing Vic will be disappointed in the crowd today......no Winx will be the call but turnover and sponsorships will determine racing's future.

In NSW if you have a TAB account, it is free entry for today and next week’s Golden Eagle Meeting too. Just go to the TAB rewards page.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Oct-27, 08:33 AM
And so Wiles believes the public have forgotten about it.....I have had many people this week in my world ask me
"How the f*** can you give that industry one dollar?"
Stories from mates who had their wives in tears asking the same...
Completely ignorant of the major commitments already made by national racing bodies...ah well.
You need to keep up fellas..the things you are babbling about are already ruled out.
Over, red rover.
What a warped world view to describe people on the anti side of this debate as "dishonest welfare types".
Jesus H.
We have Waller, Freedman, and just about every administrator, body President etc taking note, making decisions and or commitments...yet they are the 'industry fringe'?
How very very blinkered.
Have you actually read the commitments made at a national level Wiles?
Are they your smart people coming up with smart systems?
Read, and think.
Lifelong National tracking, better computers, more compliance officers...no..I repeat ...no slaughter at knackery..ever ever.
That's what's happening.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-27, 12:13 PM
#cominoutofthewoodwork !
Lloyd calls for whips to go, totally.
https://www.racenet.com.au/news/lloyd-williams-calls-for-whips-to-be-outlawed-20191023

I actually agree with this.

We live in different times. They will be outlawed eventually anyway. May as well start doing it now. Staying races a good place to trial it.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-27, 12:20 PM

Lifelong National tracking, better computers, more compliance officers...no..I repeat ...no slaughter at knackery..ever ever.
That's what's happening.

I agree with the bit about horses and no slaughter at the knackery.

If they have to be euthanized then do it in a way that befits an animal that, in the not so distant past, was so important to mankind.

And no racehorse should ever go to the knackery. FFS $350? You're kidding me.

My criticisms about the ABC journalist are genuine and come from someone who loves animals.

What on earth did she think she was doing by not going to the RSPCA when she saw the footage of that maniac in Caboolture?

How many horses were subsequently mistreated in the same manner just because she is an "investigative journalist" and wanted her story to be held off until two days before the Everest?

What a f.  :censored: .
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Oct-27, 03:10 PM
Absolutely no gongs for P V'Landys for his famous line about no NSW horse shall go direct to the knackery or saleyards.
Straight away  NSW horses started appearing in Victorian saleyards

There is a page on Facebook that until recently was identifying many and I can tell you it's mightily depressing seeing metro winners and horses you may have followed standing in an unreserved pen at Echuca.
You can turn your head away but turning your head away from racing is probably a better option.

If RNSW rescued horses from there it is absolute news to me and a shame they haven't identified them.
Purchasers are not identified there, only the price so who really knows?
I don't pay racing the same attention  I used to but don't recall any body ever being charged with any offence around this.

A few months ago Courting Magic, Shoalhaven horse of the  year in 2011, winner of 10 races and $150k was a later entry at Echuca and missed being identified and was purchased by P Loffel.
Despite many attempts to buy her when she was belatedly identified, and despite RNSW being notified off she goes to Meramist.

P Loffel in the article on this thread claims he stops and unloads the horses and gives them a 12hr break but when you think about the logistics of this......30 plus racehorses and pacers why does it sound like absolute BS.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-27, 05:42 PM
Nemesis, the sad part of this debate is the focus by the ABC critics on its reporter than taking umbrage on the Racing bodies for not doing their job properly.

They are all out on the offensive against the reporter for being cruel to the horses.

I have a solution, have a National inquiry and focus on the Racing bodies and the reporter too. This way they both can face animal cruelty charges if they all knew and ignored the facts. I doubt if the ABC critics or Racing bodies will ever agree to that. This is one way of cleaning up everything.


Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Oct-27, 06:28 PM
I can't see how Caro Meldrum-Hanna needs to defend herself Jeunes.

She is after all challenging the figures the racing industry put out in their welfare policies.

She copped it on greyhound forums as well......really vicious stuff.

Cox Plate crowd down by 33% yesterday from last year will have an effect though....that's huge!

Welfare, Winx or the weather? .......well take your pick.
If it's welfare or Winx, it shows how important the horse is, so look after them.

Always enjoy your contributions here Jeunes......plenty of respect for you.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-27, 08:23 PM
Thanks Nemesis.

Unfortunately putting the ABC reporter on show is the way her attackers will be appeased.

More and more, we are seeing reporters and whistleblowers who go against the establishment or status quo being trashed and subject to vile abuse and conspiracy theories. Thus their messages are being ignored due to the politics.

This is another classic example of this. However if you subject this reporter under the same scrutiny as the Racing bodies, we all know who will be lauded by the general public. That is the key as the Racing bodies and their apologists don’t want the attention of the general public. So vilifying her in the shadows is the answer for some of the apologists.

The Racing bodies do not want any cut to breeding numbers or the number of races in a year. There were figures posted that the number of races have risen by more than 10% from 10 years ago.

10 years ago before anyone jumps down my throat, as a simple example, races used to be at least 5 minutes apart on Sky Channel with roughly 40 mins between races at a metropolitan meeting. Now it is down to 4 minutes and roughly 35 minutes apart with 9 races usually at Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane.

More races mean more money for everyone associated with racing. There is the argument that NSW breeding rates have come down from years ago but was that since they had to be registered from time of birth. If so as one breeder said at the time of the compulsory registration, there will be an inclination not to register foals who will never make it to the track due to deformities etc.

Some of the People who are in the hierarchy of the racing industry are out of touch with the general mood of the average Joe. If they think, this will just disappear, they must be kidding themselves.

My children and work colleagues keep asking why do I bet on horses that are cruelly treated when they finish. I don’t believe in fairytales that every ex racehorse will live happily ever after. However we must ensure that we do our best to look after animals that were created for our entertainment and millions in prizemoney.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Oct-27, 09:30 PM
What about the timing, Gin? The ABC was lambasted by some as trying to spoil the Everest.

Any views why the News Corp article appeared on the day of the Chase?

The timing is absolutely there to damage the sport, interestingly there is no author credited but the whole article is full of quotes (lies) from the Animal Justice Party & the The Coalition for the Protection of Greyhounds - both are raving crazy.

It reads like an infomercial for whack jobs - the lack of detail along with any fact checking is scary.

No wonder there's no author credited  :shutup: The sad part is people will read that as 'fact' & part of me wonders if they paid to have it printed.


News Corp had below article on their website. What do you think of below article on the day of the Big Chase? Should'nt they have published it earlier too?

Anger over Australia’s ‘disappeared’ greyhounds
Analysis has raised questions about Australia’s missing greyhounds, with animal rights groups estimating more than 4000 dogs a year have disappeared.

news.com.au
October 18, 20195:21pm


Tonight the “world’s richest dog race” — the TAB Million Dollar Chase — will be run in Sydney but for some, the focus will be on the greyhounds who didn’t make it to the track.
Troubling analysis released today has raised questions about Australia’s missing greyhounds, with animal rights groups estimating more than 4000 dogs a year have disappeared just in NSW.
The Coalition for the Protection of Greyhounds believes thousands of greyhounds are still being killed every year.
A previous report from the Special Commission of Inquiry into the Greyhound Racing Industry in NSW highlighted the number of missing dogs could be as high as 80,721 over 12 years.
But since the report was released in 2016, dogs have continued to disappear, according to the Coalition for the Protection of Greyhounds.
The coalition estimates about 4000 greyhounds were unaccounted-for in 2017/18 and a similar amount in 2018/19.
“Nothing has changed,” Coalition vice president Dennis Anderson told news.com.au.
“The business model of the greyhound racing industry relies upon killing the dogs that are no longer profitable,” he said.
“It’s appalling, it’s absolutely appalling.”


The statistics are a sharp contrast to the emotional “Poetry in Motion” ad campaign released to promote tonight’s $1 million race, which celebrates the grace and beauty of the dogs.

Greyhound racing in NSW has been a controversial topic ever since ABC a exposed “live bait” scandal and former NSW Premier Mike Baird attempted to ban the industry in 2016. He backflipped on the decision after a backlash from the industry and community.
Since then the industry has tried to overhaul its practices and image but Mr Anderson believes the missing dogs had likely been killed.
“About 3500 greyhounds were whelped (or born) last financial year but there’s not 3500 people in NSW putting their hand up to adopt a greyhound,” he said.
“If you had 3500 people every year putting their hands up to adopt, obviously the industry wouldn’t destroy the dog.
“But the owners and trainers won’t keep feeding the dogs if they are not profitable. The whole industry is about profit.”

‘WHERE ARE THEY?’
Mr Anderson said confidential documents suggested about 40 per cent of greyhounds weren’t fast enough for the racetrack so of the 4415 greyhounds born in 2015/16, and 3056 in 2016/17, more than 1000 dogs each year should have been adopted.
Added to this should be the greyhounds that were retired.
Assuming they were retired after four years, the coalition believes about 4000 dogs should have been retired bringing the total number of greyhounds available for adoption in 2017/18 to 5810 dogs, and 5605 in 2018/19.
Yet only 1810 were rehomed in 2017/18 by Greyhound Adoption Program NSW and other private rehomers, according to the Greyhound Racing NSW 2018 Annual Report.
“This leaves 4000 unaccounted-for. Where are they?” Mr Anderson said.
‘SANCTIONED ANIMAL CRUELTY’
Animal welfare supporters are expected to protest on Friday night at Glebe’s Millard Reserve when the world’s richest greyhound race, the TAB Million Dollar Chase worth $1 million in prize money, is run.
Animal Justice Party MP Emma Hurst has described the greyhound industry as “government sanctioned animal cruelty”.
“Greyhound racing is a cruel industry built on the backs of thousands of suffering animals,” Ms Hurst said.
“Over the past year the Greyhound Welfare and Integrity Commission has reported over 1300 greyhounds have been injured on the racetrack. That is almost 20 per cent of all dogs who make it to race.
“The reality is this number is likely even higher.”

More than 1000 dogs are injured every year. Pictu Dylan RobinsonSource:News Corp Australia
She said there were no public statistics about how many young dogs were killed because they were considered too slow to win.
“This is an industry lacking in transparency, and integrity,” she said.
“What is very clear is that the number of dogs injured on the racetrack is growing. According to the Commission’s own data, injury incidents have been on the rise since 2016, and this trend is looking to continue.
“These statistics have shocked and outraged the NSW community. Their reaction has made it clear that the cruel greyhound racing industry no longer has a social licence to operate in our state.”
Ms Hurst believes the NSW Government needs to rethink its position on greyhound racing.
The coalition is calling for the industry to fund a sanctuary for greyhounds to live because there are not enough people to adopt them.
It would also like the recommendations of a University of Technology Sydney study done on greyhound racetrack design to be implemented.
The study said tracks should be redesigned to be straight, and not curved, and that the number of racing dogs should be reduced to six, to reduce injuries.
Despite the study being released in 2017, there has been no action so far.
“The industry is failing in its welfare responsibilities and they’re expecting private individuals to clean up the mess created by the industry,” he said.
News.com.au contacted Greyhound Racing NSW for comment but it was unable to respond before deadline.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Oct-27, 10:16 PM


This thread has gone nuts

........ there is no moral significance in the sale of 'thoroughbred' horse-meat.

The apparent sanctification of any horse deemed 'thoroughbred' is a nonsense -- in this horseless-carriage day and age most horses bred would be 'thoroughbreds'.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-27, 10:58 PM

This thread has gone nuts

........ there is no moral significance in the sale of 'thoroughbred' horse-meat.

The apparent sanctification of any horse deemed 'thoroughbred' is a nonsense -- in this horseless-carriage day and age most horses bred would be 'thoroughbreds'.

You should be happy that there could be an inquiry into this and racing. This is an opportunity for you to expand on reducing large fields and taking advantage of punters. This way your views is not just restricted to this forum. They may listen to you and agree to reduce the fields which in turn will reduce breeding and thus general waste of racehorses.

Pete, you could be the fixer for Racing in your novel approach to reduce wastage by reducing field size. I suggest you try to get on board of the inquiry in Qld first.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-28, 01:04 AM
Nemesis, the sad part of this debate is the focus by the ABC critics on its reporter than taking umbrage on the Racing bodies for not doing their job properly.

They are all out on the offensive against the reporter for being cruel to the horses.


The old "they're out to get us" defence.

Real cultist stuff. Rev. Jim Jones would have been proud.

There are specific criticisms that have not been answered by the ABC.

They compound it by failing to correct their error on reporting one horse as dead who is not

https://www.abc.net.au/news/corrections/

They refuse to hand over their evidence to Racing NSW so that body can carry out their own investigations.

And they somehow redirect focus so that this has become a NSW/PVL issue.

As Racing NSW said in their reply (which just gets ignored by the cult)

As to the 14 horses identified by the ABC, Racing NSW responded to the ABC in respect to those horses and advised that at least 12 of those horses had either predominately raced or been domiciled in other States (where Racing NSW does not have jurisdiction) or had been officially retired to be re-homed as a pleasure horse. Accordingly, these horses were outside of Racing NSW’s jurisdiction and this illustrates why Racing NSW is supportive of a National Horse Traceability Register.

https://www.racingnsw.com.au/news/announcements/racing-nsw-response-to-abc-7-30-report/

Whilst the focus continues on Racing NSW and PVL, I cannot think anything else but that it is disingenuous concern being shown for animal welfare.

As stated countless times now, anyone in possession of the knowledge of cruelty to animals, including horses, is obliged to hand over that information immediately to the RSPCA to prevent further cruelty.

The defence "we are saving the world" doesn't wash.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-28, 05:21 AM
PP, why is it when people mention Racing bodies, you turn it as against Racing NSW and Vlandys?

Is it a guilty conscience or playing the victim cards or Racing NSW the centre of the universe for you?

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-28, 05:37 AM
PP, why is it when people mention Racing bodies, you turn it as against Racing NSW and Vlandys?

Is it a guilty conscience or playing the victim cards or Racing NSW the centre of the universe for you?

Why are you making it personal?

It has nothing to do with me.

I'm asking reasonable questions like:

i) Why did the reporter not report the case of animal cruelty to the RSPCA as soon as she became aware of the shocking case of "horse sadism" displayed at the Queensland abattoir (Qld is not in NSW for those who are not aware)

ii) Why does the ABC not co-operate with Racing NSW to clear up the outstanding 2 horses (out of 10,000 retired racehorses) that seem to be unaccounted for? Is it perhaps because they are more interested in creating a political issue rather than being genuinely concerned for the welfare of horses?

iii) Why does the ABC not correct their error in reporting one horse as having been slaughtered when it was not?

These are specific questions that are not unreasonable, and require specific answers.

If you do not want to answer the questions then fair enough.

But your last response appears to be an attempt to "not" answer the questions by going after me. To paraphrase your own term - don't shoot me I'm just the messenger.

It is the ABC investigative team that should have a guilty conscience if they genuinely love horses as I do.

But their actions indicate that they have no concern for these beautiful animals. Any concerns they do display are disingenuous.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-28, 05:47 AM
...and if I can just make a comment about horse slaughter in abattoirs and I separate this from my criticisms of the ABC.....

Australians don't eat horse meat. Dogs might but there are plenty of alternatives to horse meat for dogs.

I don't believe in banning things but one thing I'd like to see banned is the slaughter of horses in abattoirs and the export of horse meat.

These are intelligent, beautiful animals unlike sheep and cows. And they have served mankind well up until the emergence of the car.

Horses don't deserve to end their lives in abattoirs.  :(

Maybe one of the State governments could lead the way and legislate to ban the abattoir slaughter of horses in their state. The others would be forced to follow.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-28, 06:30 AM
Why are you making it personal?

It has nothing to do with me.

I'm asking reasonable questions like:

i) Why did the reporter not report the case of animal cruelty to the RSPCA as soon as she became aware of the shocking case of "horse sadism" displayed at the Queensland abattoir (Qld is not in NSW for those who are not aware)

ii) Why does the ABC not co-operate with Racing NSW to clear up the outstanding 2 horses (out of 10,000 retired racehorses) that seem to be unaccounted for? Is it perhaps because they are more interested in creating a political issue rather than being genuinely concerned for the welfare of horses?

iii) Why does the ABC not correct their error in reporting one horse as having been slaughtered when it was not?

These are specific questions that are not unreasonable, and require specific answers.

If you do not want to answer the questions then fair enough.

But your last response appears to be an attempt to "not" answer the questions by going after me. To paraphrase your own term - don't shoot me I'm just the messenger.

It is the ABC investigative team that should have a guilty conscience if they genuinely love horses as I do.

But their actions indicate that they have no concern for these beautiful animals. Any concerns they do display are disingenuous.

PP, you are the one who is making it personal. I mentioned Racing bodies and you quoted me but brought up Racing NSW and Peter Vlandys.

I am asking for an inquiry similar to Qld and we can ask the ABC reporter and Racing bodies questions about animal cruelty etc.

Do you think that is fair and let the general public decide? You can then submit your questions to the inquiry as will many others for the Racing bodies.

Transparency is the key. Attacking the messenger just suppresses the bad things. Inquiries like these makes everyone accountable. Fairness should be paramount.


Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Arsenal on 2019-Oct-28, 08:55 AM
Peter Gleeson's column in the CM today puts forward a solution of sorts that a fixed percentage of G1 prizenoney 5% be set aside for a rehoming program for all three codes ...he also points out that Caro Meldrum Hanna in her 7.30 report was told by the respective owners that three horses she identified as being dogged were still alive.....difficulty would be finding the space to rehome the horses.

In the most recent 7.30 story, the reporter Caro Meldrum-Hanna was advised by owners, breeders and trainers that horses Tahitian Black, Next of Kin and Reliable Kingdom were alive and well.
This was before the airing of the show. She failed to acknowledge these claims.

My proposal would be to slice 5 per cent off the winning prizemoney of every Group One horse, dog and trot race and put it into a specialised team with the KPI of ensuring a 100 per cent rehoming success rate for retired runners.

The connections of the Melbourne Cup winner receive $4.4 million. Under my plan that would drop to $4.18 million. It’s still a nice day out.

Racing is as Australian as pies and kangaroos
 


Giddy Up :beer:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Arsenal on 2019-Oct-28, 09:01 AM
RV's $25 million welfare commitment
Matt WelshMatt Welsh@Themodernpunter   6:00am
Racing.com
On Monday, Racing Victoria (RV) announced a $25 million commitment to equine welfare in Victoria, focused on the post-racing wellbeing of thoroughbreds.

A Racing Victoria media release stated that the commitment will fund the first three years of an ongoing program to accelerate and expand its Equine Welfare Strategic Plan.

The expenditure will be funded by an increased investment from RV along with an increase in the existing industry contribution from prizemoney from 1% to 2%.

RV Chairman Brian Kruger said, “Victoria’s vision is to be a leader in equine welfare practices.”

Kruger stated that industry needed to do more to look after the equine heroes that are the centerpiece of the sport.

“Whilst the industry has achieved many great outcomes over recent years and has a clear pathway for the future, it is clear we need to step up and do more.”

The spending announcement follows ten days of backlash after the ABC’s The Final Race program that depicted thoroughbreds ending up at knackeries and abattoirs.

“The horses are the stars of our sport and no one will argue that they must be treated as such. The events and stories of the past 10 days have galvanized both public and industry opinion and have created an opportunity to fast track initiatives already planned,” said Kruger.

Kurger said that a national approach to equine welfare was imperative.

“Critical to the success of these initiatives is the coming together of all Australian Principal Racing Authorities and we intend to play a major role in supporting Racing Australia (RA) to drive a national agenda which provides for world-leading equine welfare outcomes for Australian thoroughbreds.”

RV also joined RA and a host of industry leaders in calling on government to fast track a National Horse Traceability to assist in the monitoring of horses post-racing.

The $25 million commitment RV launched on Monday will deliver:

A statewide re-homing program: An extended re-homing network which takes advantage of existing infrastructure to support retired thoroughbreds transitioning into second careers or forever homes;
Post-racing career options: An expanded Off The Track (OTT) Program to create more career opportunities for thoroughbreds who have retired from racing;
A statewide foster program: A new foster program to provide short to medium term support for thoroughbreds in need;
An advanced tracking system: A new OTT database to register retiring Victorian thoroughbreds to (at least) their first post-racing home and for as long as they remain part of the expanded OTT program; independent audits of the status of all thoroughbreds and broodmares; and analysis of data on livestock sales;
An equine welfare taskforce: A dedicated in-house taskforce focused on delivering programs that improve welfare outcomes for Victorian thoroughbreds;
Humane euthanasia: A new humane ‘on farm’ euthanasia program administered by registered veterinarians for thoroughbreds where this is considered the most appropriate outcome;
Responsible breeding: Support for a national responsible breeding campaign led by Racing Australia to reduce the number of thoroughbreds that end up with no options.
The Victoria Racing Club (VRC) has also announced that it will contribute more than $1 million to kick-start an equine welfare fund on behalf of the club.

The VRC will play host to the biggest week in Australian racing kicking off with Victoria Derby Day on Saturday and Kruger called on fans to flock to Flemington, stating that a percentage of their entry cost will go towards equine welfare.

“Those people attending the Melbourne Cup Carnival next week, be they VRC members or racing fans, can take comfort in the knowledge that a percentage of their admission ticket will help to fund future initiatives in the interests of the horse.”

Giddy Up :beer:

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-28, 11:46 AM
In the most recent 7.30 story, the reporter Caro Meldrum-Hanna was advised by owners, breeders and trainers that horses Tahitian Black, Next of Kin and Reliable Kingdom were alive and well.
This was before the airing of the show. She failed to acknowledge these claims.

 :chin: :chin: :chin:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Wenona on 2019-Oct-28, 01:57 PM
The ABC line is that the show reported that Tahitian Black and the other alive and well horses were reported to have 'ended up at the knackery' but they didn't actually report the horses had been killed.

Pathetic .... the manipulative intent of the reporting is obvious.  As obvious as the emotionally manipulative way the show was put together. 

The ABC is going down the toilet right behind journalism which was flushed some time ago.

And this doesn't mean the racing industry doesn't have a case to answer about the welfare of horses.



Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-28, 02:41 PM
The ABC line is that the show reported that Tahitian Black and the other alive and well horses were reported to have 'ended up at the knackery' but they didn't actually report the horses had been killed.

Pathetic .... the manipulative intent of the reporting is obvious.  As obvious as the emotionally manipulative way the show was put together. 

The ABC is going down the toilet right behind journalism which was flushed some time ago.

And this doesn't mean the racing industry doesn't have a case to answer about the welfare of horses.

  emthup
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Oct-28, 03:55 PM
Tahitian Black ......8 wins and $400k......alive?...why do I want to say no chance but instead I'll say little chance.....last spotted on his way to the sales.
Next Of Kin.....alive?....highly unlikely.
Reliable Kingdom ?......absolutely alive and well.

Very good article by Mick Kent which I will try and share here.
Points the finger squarely at the breeders.....14,000 horses being bred for an industry that needs about 10,000.

Funny that some of our biggest breeders namely John Messara, Gerry Harvey and Alan Jones are usually such vocal types.....not a word on this just some criticism of the ABC.

https://www.rsn.net.au/horse-wastage-breeders-you-can-fix-this/?fbclid=IwAR0jYnB_nny8wabdVn-2kWEs9oGS3Rczkj7x154i249Gp-YxtEzekEQhxlQ
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-28, 06:53 PM
Good points from most today.

ABC has a case to answer in regards to the 3 but then again they got the others right and got the debate around the wastage going.

Racing bodies need to answer a few questions including the breeding issue. Some of them have some made good plans for the future which they did not legendary entertain till the ABC report and the disgust of the general public.

To appease everyone we should have an inquiry. This way we hear everyone’s opinion and let the general public decide.

As the Banking Royal Commission showed, it is good to air all sides and if the racing bodies or ABC have nothing to hide, they all will be vindicated.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Oct-28, 07:26 PM
Good points from most today.

ABC has a case to answer in regards to the 3 but then again they got the others right and got the debate around the wastage going.

Racing bodies need to answer a few questions including the breeding issue. Some of them have some made good plans for the future which they did not legendary entertain till the ABC report and the disgust of the general public.

To appease everyone we should have an inquiry. This way we hear everyone’s opinion and let the general public decide.

As the Banking Royal Commission showed, it is good to air all sides and if the racing bodies or ABC have nothing to hide, they all will be vindicated.
Jeunes, there is not 3 horses in question.

The ABC story is coming up 2 weeks now and if Tahitian Black and Next of Kin were indeed in the land of the living we would have heard something from RNSW or the D Pfieffer stable.

There is a photo of Reliable Kingdom.....brand and timestamped.

If Tahitian Black and Next of Kin had been identified at point of sale and been sold privately the sale-yards could have notified RNSW of their whereabouts.

Some sellers go to some lengths with info about the horse at sale-yards but most are just dumped there.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-28, 09:02 PM
Jeunes, there is not 3 horses in question.

The ABC story is coming up 2 weeks now and if Tahitian Black and Next of Kin were indeed in the land of the living we would have heard something from RNSW or the D Pfieffer stable.

There is a photo of Reliable Kingdom.....brand and timestamped.

If Tahitian Black and Next of Kin had been identified at point of sale and been sold privately the sale-yards could have notified RNSW of their whereabouts.

Some sellers go to some lengths with info about the horse at sale-yards but most are just dumped there.

In the most recent 7.30 story, the reporter Caro Meldrum-Hanna was advised by owners, breeders and trainers that horses Tahitian Black, Next of Kin and Reliable Kingdom were alive and well.
This was before the airing of the show. She failed to acknowledge these claims.

 :chin: :chin: :chin:

So Wily, is there proof to say the two Nemesis mentioned are still alive?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Oct-28, 10:35 PM


Are 'all racehorses' to be well looked after until they die naturally?

The nonsense of this is so clear as to defy extended comment that might legitimize the concept

Mercifully .... ........along the way this thread has degenerated into the irrelevant and trivial bickering and backbiting that defined the culture in 6th class at St Shelia's in the 1960s.

....... Will pope Francis be asked to follow Caligula and make horses human?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-29, 01:01 AM

Are 'all racehorses' to be well looked after until they die naturally?

The nonsense of this is so clear as to defy extended comment that might legitimize the concept

Mercifully .... ........along the way this thread has degenerated into the irrelevant and trivial bickering and backbiting that defined the culture in 6th class at St Shelia's in the 1960s.

....... Will pope Francis be asked to follow Caligula and make horses human?

Peter. There is actually something in what you say - for a change :)

There are a lot of moving parts here.

i) The notion that we can look after all racehorses for the term of their natural life

- agree this is a little bit idealistic.
- however we can make an attempt to improve things like the equine funds set up from prizemoney deductions like NSW and Victoria do at the present time

I was at dinner tonight and one of the people there who I've known for many years has owned and driven a few standardbreds as a hobby trainer (has had winners at Menangle and Penrith). So I put it to him what he did with his horses when their career was over. He said he always sent them to a riding school up in Grafton - except for one who he described as a "real bastard" who used to pin the ears back and have a go at trying to bite him. He got sent to the sales.

He said honestly he couldn't say what happened to the horses once they changed ownership. And this highlights a major problem with all the idealism i.e. change of ownership.

And an added complication arises when the change of ownership crosses state borders and the horse then falls under a new set of rules.

Without trying to suggest a new plan, I agree that the idealism might not match up with the practicalities.

The other thing that entered my head about this discussion when chatting to him is that we have been concentrating on thoroughbreds.

The figures stated by Racing NSW are that out of 10,000 retired thoroughbred racehorses last year we are discussing - at most - 16. If you accept that figure, and given the way the ABC have made it out to be a Racing NSW issue you'd have to say that any problem is a bit overstated.

I suspect deep down that there is a much much larger wastage issue in the standard bred industry. Because the PVL haters and the ABC are misrepresenting the issue to make it political (something like let's get PVL because he is a mate of Alan Jones and we hate Alan Jones because of what he did to our Arts mate Loiuse Herron) then any issue in the standardbred industry may never be dealt with.


ii) Issues of cruelty

The one good thing that the report came up with was the revelation that there was explicit cruelty to horses being performed by some maniac at the Caboolture abattoir who was shown to be hitting horses about to be slaughtered with a piece of polypipe while angrily swearing his head off at them.

They (the ABC) wrecked this good work by not reporting it to the RSPCA as soon as it became apparent.

There was also a report of harsh treatment to a yearling filly with one eye in NSW.

These are two separate issues that should be dealt with by the RSPCA in my opinion. The ABC should hand over all the evidence they have to that body and let them deal with it under the state laws. It is not a Racing NSW or RQ issue. Anyone who has a shred of decency would be horrified by the Caboolture footage and the ABC deserves criticism over their failure to act in a timely manner.


iii) Slaughtering horses in abattoirs

I have formed the opinion that horses should not be sent to abattoirs. I have formed this opinion after viewing the program and watching the aweful footage of horses in their last moments of life. I admit I probably wouldn't have formed this opinion if I hadn't watched it.

Horses are beautiful intelligent animals that along with dogs have a very special relationship with humans.

Perhaps the equine welfare funds could set up a system not unlike dog pounds where unwanted horses are taken to and if a home for them is not found after a certain time then they are humanely euthanized.

Along the way there could be some statistics gathered using the brandings and that these stats be presented to the breeders after some time and discussions take place on measures to reduce wastage.

Rather than a "we need to act now" screeching headline in social and mainstream media, this problem needs a bit of time to sort out.


*** What about cats I can hear the cat lovers screaming!! I don't know how we handle the cat problem. There are far, far too many cats and the bigger issue of feral cats that threaten fauna is well documented.

Came across a feral cat one day when bushwalking alone near Waterfall. Huge thing it was. Much bigger than a domestic cat. Pretty intimidating when they don't display any fear either. Eventually he went his way and I went mine but not before I picked up a big rock and was preparing for a fight.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-29, 06:32 AM
PP, you made some valid points until you brought up the vendetta against Vlandys etc.

Let’s not kid ourselves, this issue affects all racing bodies including NSW. So to think this is against Vlandys only comes from a persecution complex.

The racing bodies can have one set of rules to apply for this but Racing Australia is too weak. If they can’t sort out racing issues of carnivals and races etc what chance do they have with this issue especially with horses being sold interstate.

Censorship by the Racing media is unhelpful as disenfranchised participants will get more publicity in the future especially in the media not having a vested interest in racing.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Oct-29, 07:20 AM

Are 'all racehorses' to be well looked after until they die naturally?

The nonsense of this is so clear as to defy extended comment that might legitimize the concept

Mercifully .... ........along the way this thread has degenerated into the irrelevant and trivial bickering and backbiting that defined the culture in 6th class at St Shelia's in the 1960s.

....... Will pope Francis be asked to follow Caligula and make horses human?
You are being nothing more than a pest here Peter.

Firstly there is nothing stopping horse racing in this country running on the breed em, race em and kill em platform so well describe by Shogun.
They could also adopt the Ross Barnett practice of 'we'll do what we can for the horses but the truth is we can't do much at all and knackeries are inevitable really'.....maybe only in Queensland.

Just try it!

Those heavily invested in racing, especially in Victoria right now are absolutely shaking in their boots......and it has nothing to do with 'inflated fields'

You would hope the 25 million welfare fund is already been set aside because their budgets are about to take a big hit.

Time will be up on this thread when there is only one contributor......pretty much like most of your threads.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Oct-29, 08:49 AM



.................while everyone is against any cruelty to any animal, it is hardly likely that the wider community would raise a sustained objection to the humane killing of horses when they don't in relation to cattle and sheep.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: napes on 2019-Oct-29, 10:29 AM

This thread has gone nuts

........ there is no moral significance in the sale of 'thoroughbred' horse-meat.

The apparent sanctification of any horse deemed 'thoroughbred' is a nonsense -- in this horseless-carriage day and age most horses bred would be 'thoroughbreds'.

Another sane comment! WTF!!  :shrug:

Back on the medication   :lol:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: napes on 2019-Oct-29, 10:49 AM
All the talk of wastage here.

The true wastage will be when these animals are killed and burnt.

A waste of a resource, the animal itself, and a waste of energy to dispose of the animal producing more carbon to slowly suffocate an already choking planet.

The money they are spending on this fantasy should be spent on educating the public as to where their food comes from. Why is the ABC checking brands to see which horses are racehorses? Why not try and save them all?

If one of my friends say "Isn't it terrible about the treatment of racehorses", I say "how is your steak you hypocrite".

At least I can respect the vegans for their beliefs! I just don't agree with them.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: napes on 2019-Oct-29, 11:31 AM
Napes, if you think Mr Trump represents some majority, I stand by my probably rude statement...are you, or your world view really that simple? Sorry for playing the man, how about a statement like "anyone buying into the story that Donald Trump represents a majority of Americans is simple in their world view and simple in their apparent inability to analyse plain facts"
Secondly, if you can settle and re read my little Duke story , I was alluding to the very hypocracy that you have your knickers in a knot about...suggesting that was generally what us humans do....we have funny, sometimes silly delineation between some species, or indeed, same species..
Now, how about these revelations proving Racing NSW knew.....errr....busted!
Now a bloody Royal Commision is coming maybe....

How about you take your own advice and read the post carefully!

Nowhere does it say Trump represents the majority of americans.

And your Duke story is about you, not about the human race as a whole. People don't need to be told how they should think. But they do need to be educated to make informed decisions.

Time to pushback and point out the hypocrisy!

Royal commission? Another retirement package for lawyers! More waste of time and money!
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Oct-29, 02:56 PM
Just to clear up the last known whereabouts of Tahitian Black.

The ABC were told by some of the former owners they did not know  where he had ended up.
One former owner put in writing that the horse had been put through the sales........it's pretty safe to say then that the horse who was identified through his brand as Tahitian Black at Burn's Pet Foods was Tahitian Black.

Took me 5 minutes to find that out......google Tahitian Black.....The Land......racehorse slaughter.

RIP Tahitian Black And Next of Kin.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Arsenal on 2019-Oct-29, 03:06 PM
Here's an organisation whose mission is to save horses all kinds not just racehorses or standardbreds from the knackery ......some options available for anyone inclined to help.

https://www.saveahorse.org.au/adopt-a-horse/?gclid=CjwKCAjwo9rtBRAdEiwA_WXcFm1bg7STXaiLQdMb_H-vOz9lGXlvnNUZW84FWtCc2ESh0kTdiLRM6xoCpyYQAvD_BwE


Giddy Up :beer:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-29, 04:53 PM
Just to clear up the last known whereabouts of Tahitian Black.

The ABC were told by some of the former owners they did not know  where he had ended up.
One former owner put in writing that the horse had been put through the sales........it's pretty safe to say then that the horse who was identified through his brand as Tahitian Black at Burn's Pet Foods was Tahitian Black.

Took me 5 minutes to find that out......google Tahitian Black.....The Land......racehorse slaughter.

RIP Tahitian Black And Next of Kin.
In the most recent 7.30 story, the reporter Caro Meldrum-Hanna was advised by owners, breeders and trainers that horses Tahitian Black, Next of Kin and Reliable Kingdom were alive and well.
This was before the airing of the show. She failed to acknowledge these claims.

 :chin: :chin: :chin:

So not to be rude folks but is it dead or not.

Race record below.

https://m.racingzone.com.au/horse/695744/tahitian-black
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Oct-29, 05:38 PM
So not to be rude folks but is it dead or not.

Race record below.

https://m.racingzone.com.au/horse/695744/tahitian-black
Wily?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Oct-30, 08:11 AM
So Wily, is there proof to say the two Nemesis mentioned are still alive?
Why is the silence so deafening on this one?

It was established in the 7.30 report that Tahitian Black and Next of Kin had been slaughtered at Burn's Pet Foods.
It wasn't disputed by either RNSW or David Pfeiffer the two with the most to lose.

Unfortunately when opinion based on extremely sloppy fact checking, meets the world of propaganda and vested interest and then gets passed off as news .....this is what you get.
Disappointing to see it gaining traction here.

While the ABC is not always a perfect news source, it's certainly a lot more reliable than any Murdoch rag.

Next of Kin looked like he could gallop a long a bit watching his trials from Dec 18....... not sure what happened but mincemeat some months later. :what:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-01, 06:12 AM
Got a bit of a re-run on 7.30 last night........ABC are not letting it go.

Last night featured some  re-homing centres for trotters and TBs.

Absolutely no funding coming from the industry was the consistent theme.....both thoroughbred and standardbred.....the standard bred centre in Queensland has just closed.

Giles Thompson the Vic racing chief joined the ranks of those looking very uncomfortable on this subject but believes there is a home for every racehorse.....hard to quite work out what that means.

Why on earth both extremely highly paid  bosses from Vic and NSW have not appointed a compliance officer to attend horses sales is ridiculous.....Camden is once a month and Echuca is every fortnight.
There are others but a dedicated officer would have dealt with that part of story.

Jim McGrath (UK racecaller) on Racing.com the other night said racing is sitting on a knife edge.
For mine the knife has gone deep and now it's a case of what can be retrieved.

LUCRF the former sponsor on the jockey's breeches doesn't want their name anywhere near the cup carnival........that is telling.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Arsenal on 2019-Nov-01, 11:48 AM
Racehorse rehoming and adoption organisations still struggling for funding
Posted Thu 31 Oct 2019, 8:04pm
Updated Fri 1 Nov 2019, 7:01am
Expires: Friday 27 September 4757 8:04pm
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Industry officials insist time and money is being put towards tracking, retraining and rehoming horses, after revelations of the slaughter of former racehorses on an industrial scale. However some horse rehoming and adoption services say they aren't seeing any money from racing bodies.

Transcript
minus
LUCY CARTER, REPORTER: It is 6:00am at the Foxleigh stables near Geelong. These former racehorses are in training for their new lives completing in equestrian events.

SOPHIE FOX, COMPETITION RIDER: Horses off the track they initially can need an experienced rider. They're very athletic, powerful, intelligent animals.

LUCY CARTER: It's a world away the abattoir kill pens where so many other thoroughbreds end up.

Sophie Fox's horse, Mr Pig, raced in Hong Kong for years and won more than three million dollars.

His new life is quite different.

SOPHIE FOX: They're so powerful cross-country and for we want to do, they're elegant on the flat for dressage and they always try hard show-jumping.

LUCY CARTER: However, not all thoroughbreds are ending up in safe homes.

Is it possible for all of the thoroughbreds currently being bred in Australia to find homes that will look after them until they die?

GILES THOMPSON, RACING VICTORIA CEO: We, at Racing Victoria, believe that there is a home for every healthy thoroughbred and that's where our focus is at the moment.

LUCY CARTER: If that's the case, then why hasn't that been the system that's been in place until now?

GILES THOMPSON: Well, one of the challenges we face is that we don't have the visibility of thoroughbreds post-racing.

LUCY CARTER: Graphic video aired two weeks ago by 7.30 shocked many Australians, including Sophie Fox.

SOPHIE FOX: It was definitely hard to watch. It was definitely not something that I'd ever considered when a horse does go to the abattoirs.

GILES THOMPSON: It was a real shock to me and it was a real shock to people across the racing industry, as well as the broader community but it has created a momentum and an opportunity for us to really make a difference now and invest and accelerate our programs.

LUCY CARTER: Why does it take a scandal for this kind of action to be taken?

GILES THOMPSON: To get change and to get real progress is a complex matter. We've been trying to do that and at times it's frustrating how slow change can be.

The great opportunity that's arisen from the 7.30 report is that we can now galvanise that and get change through quicker.

LUCY CARTER: Is vision like that evidence that Australia is breeding too many racehorses?

GILES THOMPSON: It's certainly showing a failure somewhere in the system and there's no doubt about that.

We currently breed 30 per cent less horses than we did 10 years ago. So we're heading in the right direction.

LUCY CARTER: The reality is thoroughbreds can be difficult horses to re-home. They're bred to be high performance animals and as such can be skittish and temperamental.

With time and patience they can become excellent riding horses but even then, they're expensive to keep especially when large parts of Australia are in drought.

And it's not just thoroughbreds that need new homes after racing. Standardbreds or trotters also need somewhere to go.

MELISSA BELL, STANDARDBRED ASSOCIATION QUEENSLAND: They've got a beautiful temperament, great work ethic and they're just lovely horses to work with, very safe horses.

LUCY CARTER: Melissa Bell has volunteered for 12 years running the Standardbred Association of Queensland's adoption program.

MELISSA BELL: We discovered that there wasn't a lot of opportunities for standardbreds coming off the track and a lot of them were finding themselves in slaughter yards.

We've actually been re-homing around 80 to 130 a year and we've almost hit 1,200 in the last 10 years that we've actually found pleasure homes for.

LUCY CARTER: The association has been begging racing bodies for money for years.

Melissa was shocked to recently learn that the Queensland Racing Integrity Commission funds a re-homing program for greyhounds but not for horses.

MELISSA BELL: I sort of questioned, you know, does the racing industry need a scandal for something like this to happen.

LUCY CARTER: Earlier this month, Melissa had to shut down her adoption service due to a lack of time and money.

MELISSA BELL: We did actually have a lot of trainers and owners that have contacted me, myself, just very upset saying, "What do we do?"

And there's really no answer. I can't, other than trying to re-home themselves.

LUCY CARTER: Racing Queensland declined a request for an interview and did not respond to written questions from 7.30.

The Queensland Racing Integrity Commission has told 7.30 it has just launched a grant problem offering up to $10,000 to re-homing organisations.

It also says that the challenge of re-homing horses is very different to re-homing greyhounds as pets.

Back in Victoria, Jessica Schneider has turned re-training and re-homing former racehorses into a business. She has about 20 in training.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, VENGEANCE PERFORMANCE HORSES: Our main aim is just finding what each of these horses is going to be good at, and pursuing it really and then finding down the track the right person who can nurture that, and take them on their second careers, and go on from there like Phil.

You need to go a little straighter on landing, go straight and then turn. You're falling to to the left.

LUCY CARTER: She doesn't receive funding from Racing Victoria, despite being listed as one of its official re-trainers.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER: At this stage, financial support isn't really existing as such.

With the amount of money that the racing industry turns over each year, I do believe they could put a little more into their horse welfare and off-the-track programs.

GILES THOMPSON: There is no doubt that Racing Victoria will invest and will look to support these re-trainers more broadly than we have done to date.

I think we now want to accelerate that program and double-down on it and that will require more direct investment from us.

LUCY CARTER: Racing Victoria has promised improved tracking of horses as part of a $25 million horse welfare program announced this week.

GILES THOMPSON: We lose sight of them after their first transition out of racing and this program is about getting that visibility. In the short-term about getting visibility around those within the off the track program.

In the longer term, working with Racing Australia, to get more broad visibility of horses right across the country.

LUCY CARTER: For those passionate about finding better lives for former racehorses, it is the least the industry can do.

MELISSA BELL: I like seeing people enjoy racing but it would be nice for people to just have a little thought about, you know, this is great today. What happens with them tomorrow?

SOPHIE FOX: I think they could look into breeding and ensure that the horses they're breeding are going to be successful racehorses.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER: I think the industry owes these horses a life of dignity and respect. They've brought these horses into this world. They've raced these horses and I believe if somebody is not willing to follow this through the whole hog, so from retirement onwards, they shouldn't have a horse to start with.

Related
Racehorse rehoming and adoption organisations still struggling for funding
Racehorse rehoming and adoption organisations still struggling for funding
7.30 Report

7.30
https://www.abc.net.au/7.30/racehorse-rehoming-and-adoption-organisations/11660532

ENDS

Let's see some funding to help those who are doing their best to provide for retired racehorses and standardbreds.

Previously posted the financial assistance provided to the Standardbred Association Qld SAQ.

http://www.racehorsetalk.com.au/harness/no-funds-from-rq-for-saq/

Giddy Up :beer:

I
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Arsenal on 2019-Nov-01, 04:13 PM
Amnesty for data on retired gallopers
NATHAN EXELBY

OWNERS and trainers of retired standardbred and thoroughbred horses will be given a two-week amnesty to update official records of their horse without penalty, as the inquiry into the welfare of retired racehorses takes shape.

Inquiry head judge Terry Martin has written to the Queensland Racing Integrity Commission requesting registration and retirement data of racing horses in Queensland.

Martin said it was in the best interests of the inquiry and the racing industry that these records be as accurate as possible.

To meet this request and to provide the inquiry with the most useful data, QRIC will allow late retirement notifications for a period of two weeks from today.

“Recent events have highlighted that some participants are not aware of their obligations to notify the national bodies of the retirement of their animals and this amnesty is an opportunity to remind people of their obligations and get their records up to date without penalty,” Integrity commissioner Ross Barnett said.

The inquiry, which is being overseen by QRIC and headed by Martin with the support of equine veterinary surgeon and Australian Veterinary Association representative Dr Peter Reid, is expected to report back to government by early next year.

The inquiry began on Monday and will examine the regulatory and oversight arrangements for the management of retired racehorses and the operation of facilities accepting horses for slaughter.

It also will look at the adequacy of arrangements for detecting, assessing, mitigating and prosecuting breaches of the welfare of retired racing horses, and advise of any changes required in their tracking and welfare.

Giddy Up :beer:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Nov-02, 04:37 PM


Funny that some of our biggest breeders namely John Messara, Gerry Harvey and Alan Jones are usually such vocal types.....not a word on this just some criticism of the ABC.

https://www.rsn.net.au/horse-wastage-breeders-you-can-fix-this/?fbclid=IwAR0jYnB_nny8wabdVn-2kWEs9oGS3Rczkj7x154i249Gp-YxtEzekEQhxlQ

Nemisis - Jones had a right royal go - https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6096696883001 (https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6096696883001)
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-02, 06:20 PM
Yeah. he had a go alright.....he had a go at the ABC.

Problem is he won't address the issue......which is a massive over supply of stock to the racing industry......for which he is part.

One of the images in the 7.30 report that stuck in my mind was that pen full of frightened young horses at Meramist.
They haven't come through any sales....they have been sent direct.....from trainers and breeders.

Alan would have a lot more credibility if he announced some of the things he has put in place to deal with the over supply.

I think he stands his moderately performed son of Redoute's Choice as well as his Arrowfield connection so he certainly is responsible for a lot of horse meat.

There are a lot of slow Snitzels out there.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Nov-02, 07:04 PM

One of the images in the 7.30 report that stuck in my mind was that pen full of frightened young horses at Meramist.


I haven’t been back in here as I can’t see anyone of us changing our views but I am tempted to ask, not knowing the answer, how many of those animals at Meramist were there and how many were thoroughbreds?


Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-02, 07:18 PM
Shame you've been away Wily because there was a question posed here for you.........never mind I answered it!

If you really want to know why Meramist like thoroughbreds and standardbreds you can find the answers on the internet.......rest assured they are never short of supply.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-02, 07:51 PM
Reprinting the link Gin posted

ABC report 'attacking' the horse racing industry was 'premeditated' and 'sensationalised'

Sky News host Alan Jones has taken aim at the ABC over its report on the horse racing industry, branding it “premeditated” and “sensationalised”.

Mr Jones was critical of the national broadcaster for its 7.30 Report segment 'The dark side of Australia's horse racing industry', which aired on the eve of famed The Everest horse race.

“Typically ABC, the program's focus was on an abattoir with no connection to the racing industry and over which the racing industry has no jurisdiction,” Mr Jones said.

The Sky News host was critical of the ABC’s intentions behind showing the report, saying “the failure to take immediate steps to prevent the cruel and abhorrent treatment of animals by the Meramist Abattoir calls into question the bonafides of those who took the footage”.

“Why wasn't it reported immediately to the police or the DPI in Queensland if their real aim was to prevent cruelty to animals?” he said.


https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6096696883001

The ABC apologists just refuse to discuss or answer the highlighted bit.

The ABC and their "investigative" team couldn't give a stuff about horse cruelty.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Nov-02, 09:17 PM


The ABC apologists just refuse to discuss or answer the highlighted bit.

The ABC and their "investigative" team couldn't give a stuff about horse cruelty.


It was same with the dogs PP  :whistle:

Then you get twits like Steve Coleman from the RSPCA come out in support as he knows it will make the donate button sing.

Silly us for thinking these exposes' were about the animals  :shutup:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-02, 11:24 PM
So here is a question for the ABC attackers and apologists, do you think we should have an inquiry?

It is a simple question.

Then we should put questions to everyone including the ABC reporters and the racing bodies. The questions of wastage, breeding numbers, non reporting of cruelty etc could be answered.

Now we can work out who is willing to look at all angles or those who want a cover up.

I would be interested to see what the response to an inquiry would be now.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-03, 01:35 AM
So here is a question for the ABC attackers and apologists, do you think we should have an inquiry?

It is a simple question.

Then we should put questions to everyone including the ABC reporters and the racing bodies. The questions of wastage, breeding numbers, non reporting of cruelty etc could be answered.

Now we can work out who is willing to look at all angles or those who want a cover up.

I would be interested to see what the response to an inquiry would be now.

Is the problem so large as to deserve an inquiry?

16 horses out of 10,000?

Is that figure disputed? (One that had to be published by Racing NSW and I'm sure the ABC had it just didn't say it because it didn't suit the angle).

More taxpayer money for lawyers.

You have inquiries into Aged Care, institutional child sex abuse, banking rip offs.

Not into something on this scale.

Just needs for citizens (including the ABC) to report animal abuse when they see it to the regulatory authorities - and not RQ in the case of Meramist.

What is in place works as long as people, journalists, etc. do the right thing.

Should horses go to abattoirs? Different question and one I think shouldn't happen. And once again, State Govt issue. Nothing to do with RQ, RVL or Racing NSW.

The attack on horse racing by the ABC is an attack on the sport with the implied banning of the sport which nearly happened with Greyhounds in NSW.

We all know there is an activist element that wants horse racing banned as was shown in nemesis' YouTube link (which interestingly has been removed) and the successful lobbying of Taylor Swift to pull out of her Melbourne Cup commitments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRi5Y34xrjE

The constant laying of the blame at the feet of V'Landys for stuff that is out of his jurisdiction is evidence that the ABC is out to get the sport rather than being concerned with animal cruelty.

People who are supporting the ABC just because they hate V'Landys or Alan Jones should think about whether they support the animal activists who want the sport banned because (unwittingly) that is who they are giving credence to.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-03, 06:51 AM
Where does the '16 out of 10,000' figure come from?

I know the ABC found around 16 in places they weren't supposed to be in a very short space of time.......don't tell from here.

P V'Landys has the figure at 1% but somehow you've managed a figure of 0.16%.

Racing won't be going far but I can see it being in a reduced form.
People might even get the Mel Cup they desire because if the money not there internationals won't come.

On greyhounds, if someone here would like to do the pup's whelped, dog's named, dog's retired and dog's re-homed figures that would be good.....we can make an allowance for some trainers who keep their dogs.

The figures look decidedly rubbery to me.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-03, 07:01 AM
Where does the '16 out of 10,000' figure come from?

I know the ABC found around 16 in places they weren't supposed to be in a very short space of time.......don't tell from here.

P V'Landys has the figure at 1% but somehow you've managed a figure of 0.16%.

Racing won't be going far but I can see it being in a reduced form.
People might even get the Mel Cup they desire because if the money not there internationals won't come.

On greyhounds, if someone here would like to do the pup's whelped, dog's named, dog's retired and dog's re-homed figures that would be good.....we can make an allowance for some trainers who keep their dogs.

The figures look decidedly rubbery to me.

From page 4 on this thread, and available on the Racing NSW web site

There have been in excess of 10,000 horses retired in NSW over the past three years and even based on the ABC’s unsubstantiated claim that 14 horses were found at a NSW knackery this shows that the Rule has been effective. No Rule is foolproof and in the racing industry, as in any other element of the community, there is unfortunately 1% of participants who will break the rules despite 99% doing the completely right thing.


10,000 racehorses retired each 3 years does not appear rubbery at all to me.

If you have evidence to the contrary then please share. However your opinion does not constitute evidence.

V'Landys refers to 1% of participants if that is where you are sourcing the 1% from.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-03, 07:32 AM
So you use industry figures to support your claim.....Truly?....in another world that's called propaganda.

The more you speak about this it just becomes more clear, you have absolutely no idea!

I'll give you credit for your form pieces you put up here.....I don't read them but they might be good.

Don't write stuff about a subject that you have not researched.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-03, 07:42 AM
So you use industry figures to support your claim.....Truly?....in another world that's called propaganda.

The more you speak about this it just becomes more clear, you have absolutely no idea!

I'll give you credit for your form pieces you put up here.....I don't read them but they might be good.

Don't write stuff about a subject that you have not researched.

So my figure comes from Racing NSW.

You are disputing this figure based on....?????

You gut feeling? Some industry conspiracy theory?

10,000 in 3 years does not sound unbelievable to me. In fact it sounds about right. Even 5,000 the 14/16 horses would be insignificant.

If you have evidence to the contrary, please provide.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-03, 08:40 AM
Simply by asking me about that 1% you continue to show your complete lack of knowledge on this subject.

It was the basis of the whole 7.30 report.

Don't quote me RNSW figures.....they are total BS.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-03, 09:26 AM
Simply by asking me about that 1% you continue to show your complete lack of knowledge on this subject.

It was the basis of the whole 7.30 report.

Don't quote me RNSW figures.....they are total BS.

If they (the Racing NSW figures) are bullshit, then what is the correct figure? What is the basis for your figure?

10,000 racehorses retiring over 3 years does not appear "complete bullshit" on the face of it.

Where are you getting this stuff from?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Wenona on 2019-Nov-03, 10:00 AM
I'm guessing all this means the special Melbourne Cup episode of Play School will never again see the light of day.  :wavecry:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-03, 11:49 AM
We should put V’landys, AJ, ABC, VRC head Amanda, Lloyd Williams, Michelle Payne, Peter Fitzsimmons on an episode of Play School or Sesame Steet version of a MC.

Would be interesting to see what happens and who wins.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Nov-03, 12:27 PM


On greyhounds, if someone here would like to do the pup's whelped, dog's named, dog's retired and dog's re-homed figures that would be good.....we can make an allowance for some trainers who keep their dogs.

The figures look decidedly rubbery to me.

Nemisis - dogs are tracked from birth to death, you can't fart without having to notify the authorities in NSW.  :/
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Nov-03, 12:29 PM
We should put V’landys, AJ, ABC, VRC head Amanda, Lloyd Williams, Michelle Payne, Peter Fitzsimmons on an episode of Play School or Sesame Steet version of a MC.

Would be interesting to see what happens and who wins.

Pirate Pete either wouldn't show up for fear of being exposed or he's nobble everyone so he'd clean up with his dodgy 'facts'
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-03, 12:37 PM
Pirate Pete either wouldn't show up for fear of being exposed or he's nobble everyone so he'd clean up with his dodgy 'facts'

I think the winner could be AJ or Fitzsimmons. They both have good staying power. The rest could do with some blinkers and maybe a tongue tie to help focus.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Wenona on 2019-Nov-03, 12:47 PM
From many years of experience I can tell you, whoever is the blue horse is gunna win.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Wenona on 2019-Nov-03, 12:49 PM
I imagine the episode will be quietly wiped from existence and disappear from all box sets, compilations and repeat schedules.

Considering the shows demographic, I'd imagine that that episode would have been many peoples first introduction to the wonders of the Cup and horse racing in general.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-03, 12:54 PM
From many years of experience I can tell you, whoever is the blue horse is gunna win.

V’landys wears blue jackets at times. Fitzsimmons is a red bandanna type of guy while AJ has a wide variety of colours but wears a nice blue jacket at times.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-04, 06:06 AM
Dark vegans won’t take a punt on the human race

NICK CATER

Caution precludes the naming of a winner but the prize for this year’s least appealing Melbourne Cup party is as good as won.

“Unite with the Anti-Speciesist Action Collective and Vegan ACT to protest the Melbourne Cup,” reads the invitation.

The venue chosen for this gathering of the po-faced is suitably bleak: Thoroughbred Park, Lyneham, ACT, a paddock on the edge of nowhere, a 20-minute tram ride away from the nearest thing our national capital has to a pub.

The Melbourne Cup has been officially declared “problematic” by Guardian Australia, which on Saturday added Race 7 on Tuesday to the growing list of things that were fine until the day before yesterday but of which we should now be utterly ashamed.

Writer Calla Wahlquist declared that the race had “lost its hold on the nation”, and had the evidence to prove it.

“Dozens of people Guardian Australia spoke to,” she writes, “many previously neutral or mildly positive towards the race, say they plan to boycott the office sweep this year.”

The people to whom Guardian Australia speaks may or may not be a representative sample, but their minds are made up. A recent ABC 7.30 program on the fate of retired racehorses was a “tipping point”, Wahlquist tells us.

Like almost all of today’s protests, shunning the office sweepstake is symbolic and costs you nothing, distinguishing it from the civil rights movements of old. They are not fighting to relieve ­oppression but fighting to demonstrate to others that they feel the pain of the oppressed.

The great irony, as Douglas Murray writes in an important new book, The Madness of Crowds, is that the loudest protests against social injustice are usually heard in the most socially just countries.

There is always room for improvement, but to portray a free and democratic nation like ours as infested with bigotry, hatred and oppression is at best partial and at worst nakedly hostile, writes Murray. “It is an analysis expressed not in the manner of a critic hoping to improve, but an enemy eager to destroy,” he concludes.

We have long since given up looking for consistency in the behaviour of protesters whose presumption of superior moral standing makes them immune to charges of hypocrisy.

Last week two climate protesters in Melbourne were arrested for assaulting a police horse.

Tomorrow many of their fellow protesters will be making a nuisance of themselves at Flemington protesting against cruelty to race horses.


There is nothing to be achieved through discussion and still less through appeasement. We know how the narrative will run.

First there is a demand that we “start a conversation”, then a call for transparency and accountability. Next come safeguards, regulations and a demand for harsher penalties. From there it moves on to plain packaging and health warnings, then an outright ban, and pretty soon we’re munching cauliflower burgers wrapped in a hemp and cucumber bun.

The poor manners of modern activists, whether in social media or on the street, is further evidence that these are not serious people in search of civic agreement.

A campaign to persuade Melbourne car drivers that they are warming the planet, for example, would not begin with random protests that paralyse the CBD. Miners will not be dissuaded from despoiling the Earth, if that’s what you think they are doing, by being spat upon.

Murray makes the same point by describing the tactics of the trans rights movement. No sensible campaign for the greater ­acceptance of trans people would begin by insisting that men, transitioning or not, be allowed to breach the privacy of women’s toilets or that children should be allowed to chemically block their puberty without telling mum and dad.

It is the road to division, not consensus. Which may be why even some of the wokest of folk appear reluctant to follow Guardian Australia’s lead by declaring the Melbourne Cup “not OK”.

For Australiana it is in every sense a sacred occasion, unique to the Western world.

“The hoof-strokes roar like a mighty drum” were being celebrated by Banjo Paterson in The Bulletin a dozen years before the first Victorian Football League grand final, albeit in an uncomfortably un-woke verse.

Recently arrived Uber drivers quickly learn that the only acceptable way to start a conversation after ten past three on the first Tuesday in November is “how did you go?”

It is harder to imagine a finer representation of the Australian principle of the fair go, as I wrote in my book The Lucky Culture. Hope rides on each of the 24 runners at the starting gate, not because the horses or their riders are equal, but because everything possible has been done by the organisers to ensure they have an equal chance.

This spirit of egalitarianism, the thread running through our social fabric, is anathema to the people to whom Guardian Australia talks, the educated elite with bachelor of arts degrees who imagine they see the world in clearer terms than the rest of us.

To protest for climate justice, trans rights or a kinder, anti-spec­iesist vegan world is to demonstrate that you are a cut above the bogans at Flemington.

This much is clear from Wahlquist’s article. Deep down it is not the way people treat animals that appals her sample but the people themselves.

Even before they watched the 7.30 program, the people who spoke to Guardian Australia “were already appalled by the cultural cringe of seeing dozens of well-dressed adults vomiting into port-a-loos at 2pm, describing the spectacle of horse racing as both insufferably stuffy and unbearably gauche”.

People who spoke to Guardian Australia appear, at best, to be only moderately comfortable in the presence of their fellow citizens and happier talking among themselves.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/dark-vegans-wont-take-a-punt-on-the-human-race/

Well I'm off to join the Anti-Speciesist Action Collective and subscribe to The Guardian, and will be boycotting the Office Sweep on The Cup.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-04, 06:18 AM
The crux of that article was the disingenuous behaviour of activists as highlighted by Douglas Murray in his book The Madness Of Crowds.

A campaign to persuade Melbourne car drivers that they are warming the planet, for example, would not begin with random protests that paralyse the CBD. Miners will not be dissuaded from despoiling the Earth, if that’s what you think they are doing, by being spat upon.

i.e. if you were genuinely concerned about planet warming by cars, and you wanted to encourage people not to use cars, why would you start off by making those people angry by blocking traffic?

And the second example highlights the problems Bill Shorten faced. He was trying to appease coal miners by saying "even though we will stop coal mining, we will get you jobs in other industries".

Then along comes the disingenuous protester, who has no intention of working with coal miners and who spits on them.


Similarly with the ABC.

If they were genuine in their concern for animal welfare, why would they sit on information about cruelty to horses until two days before the Everest?

Why wouldn't you just act immediately? You could still run your show whenever you wanted and it wouldn't have made much difference.

But they displayed how disingenuous they were by sitting on that information.

Same as those who spit on coal miners (and then first thing they do when they get home is to recharge their mobile using electricity generated by coal).


The bottom line is that these disingenuous people are only out to divide the community. They have no real care for the cause they are allegedly acting for.


So those potting Peter V'Landys because of their hatred of the man, and using the ABC as a vehicle, maybe you should carefully consider your bedfellows.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-04, 06:50 AM
PP, after reading the article from Nick Cater and then reading your post re V’Landys, I don’t get it.

What is the paranoia than any anti Racing or ABC report supporters are all against V’Landys only. There was no reference in the article against him but more about the activists in Melbourne.  Either you work for him or his publicist that any critics of racing must be targeting him.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Nov-04, 07:49 AM
Thanks for posting that article PP
I couldn't agree more
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-04, 08:02 AM

What is the paranoia than any anti Racing or ABC report supporters are all against V’Landys only. ....Either you work for him or his publicist that any critics of racing must be targeting him.

There is no paranoia nor am I working for him.

I am responding to forum member comments that mention Racing NSW and V'Landys.

You guys are the ones that keep bringing Racing NSW and PVL into this discussion - not me. So don't try and twist it around to make out I'm some kind of sycophant to reduce the value of my contribution.

Back on topic, the shocking footage from the abattoir was sourced in Queensland.

Yet I am struggling to see any comment related to Racing Qld on this thread - from yourself, nemesis or jfc who I've quoted from below.

If it trends, Vlandys will have a fit.


Meanwhile consider V'landys' effort as reported by one outlet under his control.

Who is stupid enough to swallow his crap about being under resourced!


Jones and V'landys in their fantasy world.


No, I'm explaining V'landys' cop out.


The worst part of the whole issue is the perception of some racing enthusiasts and administrators, it is a beat up by the activists and ABC.

The racing industry including Racing NSW have lived in an insular world ....

Vlandys better get used to the hard questions as there will be a follow up report and he will not be able to control it.



The reason this was added was to stop RNSW doing exactly what they are saying that these are not NSW horses.

P V'Landys was being challenged on his 1% figure and that's why he looked so uncomfortable because he knows it's BS......let's not even mention J Dumesny feeble effort.



V'landys was given plenty of air time. He did himself no favours.


If Racing NSW is concerned about one horse being alive what about the other horses and the general question of do they track all the horses etc.


...and that is only on the first few pages.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-04, 08:21 AM
Thanks for posting that article PP
I couldn't agree more

It was a great article and I must try and get time to read the book "The Madness Of Crowds" by Douglas Murray.

I read a book over a decade ago by Shelly Gare called "The Rise and Rise of the Air Heads" that was a portent to some of the stuff we are seeing with "Groupthink".

Sanctimonious people telling you the "correct" way to think on all sorts of issues - animal activism, Climate Change, coal mining, electric cars, transgender, Israel Folau, Gay Marriage, gender equity, George Pell, black armband history, disingenuous apologies, Donald Trump, Brexit, The Big Banks, The Catholic Church, acceptable language...I could go on.

Scratch the surface of a Groupthinker and there is usually a hypocrite underneath.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-04, 08:34 AM
You have no idea PP7.

RNSW in their welfare policy state that only 1% of racehorses 'that leave the track' go to slaughter.

They also state that no racehorses can be put through unauthorised sales.......Racing Vic do not make these claims and nor do Queensland.

The ABC in no time at all completely blew those ridiculous claims out of the water......and for that P V'Landys deserves to be criticised.

Any objective person reading this thread would be hard pressed to find evidence of hatred directed at P V'Landys.
The only hatred on here is directed at the ABC and one post here (was subsequently modified) was absolute hatred towards the reporter.

Your big thumbs up I suppose means you must have liked it and I did wonder if you had seen it in it's original form.
Considering it was based on a total bull shit story in the Courier Mail......well, says a lot.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-04, 08:37 AM
PP, after reading the article from Nick Cater and then reading your post re V’Landys, I don’t get it.

What is the paranoia than any anti Racing or ABC report supporters are all against V’Landys only.

You have no idea PP7.

RNSW in their welfare policy state that only 1% of racehorses 'that leave the track' go to slaughter.

They also state that no racehorses can be put through unauthorised sales.......Racing Vic do not make these claims and nor do Queensland.

The ABC in no time at all completely blew those ridiculous claims out of the water......and for that P V'Landys deserves to be criticised.


Nuff said.....
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-04, 08:50 AM
You have no idea PP7.

RNSW in their welfare policy state that only 1% of racehorses 'that leave the track' go to slaughter.

They also state that no racehorses can be put through unauthorised sales.......Racing Vic do not make these claims and nor do Queensland.

The ABC in no time at all completely blew those ridiculous claims out of the water......and for that P V'Landys deserves to be criticised.

Any objective person reading this thread would be hard pressed to find evidence of hatred directed at P V'Landys.
The only hatred on here is directed at the ABC and one post here (was subsequently modified) was absolute hatred towards the reporter.

Your big thumbs up I suppose means you must have liked it and I did wonder if you had seen it in it's original form.
Considering it was based on a total bull shit story in the Courier Mail......well, says a lot.

So I'm trying to get my head around your logic.

You are saying that, in spite of the worst footage being shot in Queensland, you are not commenting on things like the sadistic treatment of horses at the Meramist abattoir because Racing NSW state that no (thoroughbred) horse can be put through unauthorized sales, and that RQ and RVL have not made such claims.

Have I got that right?

The statement that "no (thoroughbred) horse can be put through unauthorized NSW sales" is essentially correct.

The ABC has found evidence to the contrary. There are perhaps 14 or 16 horses that were.

I don't think anyone is disputing this.

Racing NSW are investigating in spite of the fact that the ABC refuses to hand over evidence that would assist that investigation.

So what is your problem?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-04, 10:21 AM
Are you suggesting that a camera set up at Luddenham  or Burns Pet foods is going to show thoroughbreds getting treated much differently.......a bolt misfired or a bullet a bit wide of the mark?
Don't even mention saleyards because it is clear you haven't been near one and don't speak to people that have.
The pens at Meramist were full of thoroughbreds........many from NSW and that was the issue that was put to P V'landys.

The figures from the Cup carnival will tell the tale of what is acceptable in the eyes of the public.

How are we going to pay for P V'landys grand plans? ......surely a question floating around the corridors at RNSW.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-04, 01:11 PM
You noting this down Jeunes   :lol:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-04, 01:30 PM
Are you suggesting that a camera set up at Luddenham  or Burns Pet foods is going to show thoroughbreds getting treated much differently.......a bolt misfired or a bullet a bit wide of the mark?

So you are saying what here. That because a hypothetical camera set up at the two NSW abattoirs might show a bolt misfired or someone missing (is that what you are saying?) then there is no need to discuss Qld or Victoria cruelty e.g. Meramist, Darren Weir.



Don't even mention saleyards because it is clear you haven't been near one and don't speak to people that have.


I have never been to abattoirs. Been to plenty of sales but not where the doggers are present.

So you are claiming expertise because your experience is...... :what: (you left that bit out).


The figures from the Cup carnival will tell the tale of what is acceptable in the eyes of the public.


What does this even mean? Are you saying that you are predicting that there will be some wagering figures that will reflect your view of the world? I'm only guessing. It is such a vague statement. Can you expand please mate.


How are we going to pay for P V'landys grand plans? ......surely a question floating around the corridors at RNSW.

What is the point in us conversing if you do not even read what I take the trouble to post.

This question was answered yesterday complete with excerpts and links (taxation parity)

You just seem to move on from one anti NSW rant to the next.

How about taking a spell for a while and when you do post be clear and precise in what you are trying to communicate.

Whatever it is you are trying to communicate is missing the mark and what is coming through is hateful rants.

There's a good boy then.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-04, 02:02 PM
 I can't be bothered answering your stupid questions.......bringing up Darren Weir.....last time I looked you were defending him.

By all means have it noted that the welfare of racehorses is of paramount importance to me......always has been.

What any objective person would note about you is your first offering here......'I haven't watched it but I sure have something to say about it, make sure you all listen up now.'...pure brilliance.

Sadly for me it only came second to this classic  'racing is cleaner than ever'......what an incredibly perceptive mind. :bye:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-04, 03:29 PM
I can't be bothered answering your stupid questions......

Yeah you've made it obviously clear that you don't answer any reasonable questions put to you.

Asking you your experience around abattoirs and saleyards, when you clearly imply that you have a good deal of experience, is a "dumb" question is it?

Yeah right.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-04, 04:26 PM
You noting this down Jeunes    :lol:

Ok. So it seems the beef from you  is with others referring to Vlandys or have I missed the point?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Nov-04, 04:32 PM
If I may. The beef is that bugger all seems to be pinned on RQ, The ABC, Qld Government, The abattoir or the fithly criminal turds beating the shutout of animals

The worlds going to hell in a hand basket and according to most here it’s PV’s fault🤮

Over to PP to explain it more eloquently
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-04, 06:59 PM
If I may. The beef is that bugger all seems to be pinned on RQ, The ABC, Qld Government, The abattoir or the fithly criminal turds beating the shutout of animals

The worlds going to hell in a hand basket and according to most here it’s PV’s fault🤮

Over to PP to explain it more eloquently

Fair enough but I do think there is a few to blame including V’landys.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-04, 07:32 PM
Another interesting viewpoint from both sides. Life is changing.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/the-melbourne-cup-hit-by-protests-after-horse-deaths/news-story/f9948e85ad3a3b68cde5d197292e65f2
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-04, 08:58 PM
Another interesting viewpoint from both sides. Life is changing.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/the-melbourne-cup-hit-by-protests-after-horse-deaths/news-story/f9948e85ad3a3b68cde5d197292e65f2

There are many moving parts here. Horse cruelty on film. NSW horses turning up in abattoirs when that practice is banned in NSW but not in other states. And the Melbourne Cup mortality rate.

The death of 6 horses since 2013 during or post Melbourne Cup. Those of us who follow racing all year round would know that this is a number that is well above expectation. Am I wrong in saying that just about all those deaths are overseas based horses?

I'm still shocked when I think of the death of Admire Rakti. This horse came from near last to win the Caulfield Cup. Then Purton (certainly would have been under instruction) rode it in the lead running fast sectionals in The Cup. It was gone before the home turn. Then it drops dead in the stalls after the race. Intuitively something really wrong happened there that was never fully investigated and explained.

It certainly doesn't help the cause of horse racing and gives animal activists ammunition.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-04, 09:41 PM
There is less interest in sports and definitely racing over the past decade. Racing is entertainment and people can take it or leave it. If they go to the races, they bet otherwise it is usually MC with all the parties at work.

The sad part now is that some millennials and others do not even fancy the cup. Animal welfare is part of the issues but there are other factors too.

Society has evolved. 25 years ago, gay marriage would have never been thought as being in our lifetime but a majority of our population agreed with it. Who would have thought 15 years ago that climate change would be a big issue for some. Let’s even make it simple, 20 years ago Blockbuster, Videoezy, Kodak, Fuji were great stocks. Now just obsolete. Society has evolved.

Racing needs to change and we have to appear to be doing something rather than play the blame game. The damage is done in the eyes of many even prior to the ABC report.

The only way racing to be relevant in a25 years time would be to about quality of the participants.

There needs to be some hard questions and no coverups for the future. More and more social media has changed the landscape for the better and worse so exposure is only a short time away for the people who spoil it for the rest of us

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-04, 09:49 PM
Agree with you Jeunes.

My first memories of the Melbourne Cup are Rain Lover winning in 1968.

I can recall the shocking death of Dulcify (?? 1978) as being the only fatality in the last millennium - happy to be corrected.

Then all of a sudden we have 6 deaths in 6 years??

I think the RVL vet did the right thing in ordering the withdrawal of horses displaying signs of soreness.

God imagine if there is a death this year. It could very well threaten the very existence of the race.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-05, 06:52 AM
An interesting article from the Guardian below.

They are right about Friday’s newspaper as that is the only time I buy it. Great way to hide behind the paper and study the form from my young days.   :lol:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/04/a-sure-thing-how-australias-love-of-gambling-keeps-horse-racing-alive
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Nov-05, 10:35 AM


Then all of a sudden we have 6 deaths in 6 years??



I've argued this a bit this week, the usual hand wringers have latched onto this and will tell you 6 have died in the MC since 2013 - well one was Araldo who kicked a fence (nothing to do with racing) after being spooked by a flag & another was Regal Monarch (not sure on spelling) who didn't even race in the Cup. So 6 becomes 4 pretty quick.

They'll also tell you 122 or so have died on tracks this year, I always counter by can you give me that as a % vs the number of starters - I'm yet to get a response or answer and normally get abused for it. I'd suspect it's well less than 1%

None of that makes it right, nor should it mean we don't look at ways to improve but puts into context the spin you get from these types.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Nov-06, 06:51 AM
Groupthought hey?
I knew someone would find a way to align the Catholic church with the Racing industry.
Poor old mistakenly maligned organisations, hey?
Dear oh dear.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-07, 06:47 PM
Groupthought hey?
I knew someone would find a way to align the Catholic church with the Racing industry.
Poor old mistakenly maligned organisations, hey?
Dear oh dear.

????
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Nov-09, 10:28 PM
Reply #266.
PP's list of issues he thinks we are all being told how to react to, by that nasty group called the rational majority.
He calls us "groupthinkers"...
Reads like a list from Sky news program...suprise surprise.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-10, 09:03 AM
Someone trying to make a difference.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6481075/they-deserve-more-call-for-owners-to-better-support-retired-racehorses/?cs=14225
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-10, 08:25 PM
Reply #266.
PP's list of issues he thinks we are all being told how to react to, by that nasty group called the rational majority.
He calls us "groupthinkers"...
Reads like a list from Sky news program...suprise surprise.

I had to go back and look that one up.

And what a gem of wisdom it was too  :angel:

It was a great article and I must try and get time to read the book "The Madness Of Crowds" by Douglas Murray.

I read a book over a decade ago by Shelly Gare called "The Rise and Rise of the Air Heads" that was a portent to some of the stuff we are seeing with "Groupthink".

Sanctimonious people telling you the "correct" way to think on all sorts of issues - animal activism, Climate Change, coal mining, electric cars, transgender, Israel Folau, Gay Marriage, gender equity, George Pell, black armband history, disingenuous apologies, Donald Trump, Brexit, The Big Banks, The Catholic Church, acceptable language...I could go on.

Scratch the surface of a Groupthinker and there is usually a hypocrite underneath.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-10, 09:26 PM
I had to go back and look that one up.

And what a gem of wisdom it was too  :angel:

I think the irony is that Group Thinkers are perceived to be hypocrites while the opposing views don’t see themselves in that way.

The only cure for that is having a fist fight we can bet on the outcomes.   :lol:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-10, 09:40 PM
I think the irony is that Group Thinkers are perceived to be hypocrites while the opposing views don’t see themselves in that way.

The only cure for that is having a fist fight we can bet on the outcomes.   :lol:

What I object to is being told by someone (e.g. a politician from The Greens) that "I need to do this" to prevent Climate Change when we all know they are not doing it themselves.

Take for example the self declared "climate warrior" Zali Steggal. She lives in the city and drives around in a Nissan Patrol. In spite of her saying she saying she was going to get rid of it she hasn't and uses the justification that she has kids to drive around.

Then there is the fact that Adam Bandt is the only Green federal politician who owns an electric car.

I am not going to listen to people who are flagrant hypocrites, and it follows that I am not going to listen to people who proselytize their hypocritical dogma.

I rarely fly. I would think that Zali Steggal, Sarah Hansen-Young, etc add heaps more to the carbon footprint than I ever will.

Yet they are put up as the leaders we should listen to when it comes to climate change.

You want credibility? Lead by example. Turn off the air conditioning in Parliament House.

Good on you Adam Bandt.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-10, 10:08 PM
PP, I concur with you but it is both sides of the politics in this.

We gave Morrison taking aim at activism but we have lobby groups who spruik for banks, mining companies, insurance companies, gambling agencies etc. The lobbyists hide behind an impressive name with Council or Authority or Body as part of it to give it a perceived official or regulatory authority.

The activists on the other hand are either a rabble or not wealthy enough to be like that so they use social media or physical status for their actions.

Don’t get me started on media balance too as there is usually no middle political coverage. I am using a 50/50 or even a 40/60 coverage of one side. Media and journalists like ABC, AJ, Bolt etc may criticise their sides at times but rarely ever credit the opposing view on a equal basis as they do their own.

We have ministers who have criticised the Chinese influence but are happy to take their money and allow their  students in. They are either stupid or weak depending on your point of view. It is like fighting with a relative but happy to take their money.  Not fair for China either way to be hypocritical.

Hypocrisy is real in the world.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Nov-11, 05:59 AM
The only thing I will add is this.

Leave lovely Zarli alone, PP, she did us all a massive favour 🥳
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Nov-11, 09:33 AM
Aaaah...another ole straw man argument...thats right, no-one can have an opinion on climate change unless they live
in a cave and subsist on native grasses and have no phone.
Classic the way idiot deniers , who don't believe it's happening, then say by the way I don't fly, I eat less red meat I don't own the diesel anymore etc etc..virtue signalling regards a behavioral change they have made, yet they say that change is not required.
Regurgitated Sky news type crap...all it is...
Dare to be different hey?
Fools...whilst NSW burns, unprecedented conditions, still they squirm and dodge.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: napes on 2019-Nov-11, 10:45 AM
The true believers (or deniers in that case) may be misdirected morons but they aren't hypocrites. They really believe. They aren't changing their life for anyone.

Interesting this thread has found its way to climate change, but no discussion of the effect of thousands of horses living unproductive lives using resources and producing carbon. Where they could be utilized to feed people or other animals.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-11, 08:55 PM
Aaaah...another ole straw man argument...thats right, no-one can have an opinion on climate change unless they live
in a cave and subsist on native grasses and have no phone.


I didn't say that at all.

Surely you can see that Steggal could choose to drive something that guzzles a bit less juice than an Xtrail (I think I said Patrol before) if she is going to call herself a "climate warrior".

I think that is fair criticism.

Native grasses, etc. You are overstating things Shogun. Those whom I criticize have made themselves very rich by claiming to be "saving the planet".

I don't think they interested in saving the planet one little bit. They are using people's fears to line their pockets. They are no better than snake oil salesmen.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-11, 09:00 PM
PP, I concur with you but it is both sides of the politics in this.

We gave Morrison taking aim at activism but we have lobby groups who spruik for banks, mining companies, insurance companies, gambling agencies etc. The lobbyists hide behind an impressive name with Council or Authority or Body as part of it to give it a perceived official or regulatory authority.

The activists on the other hand are either a rabble or not wealthy enough to be like that so they use social media or physical status for their actions.

Don’t get me started on media balance too as there is usually no middle political coverage. I am using a 50/50 or even a 40/60 coverage of one side. Media and journalists like ABC, AJ, Bolt etc may criticise their sides at times but rarely ever credit the opposing view on a equal basis as they do their own.

We have ministers who have criticised the Chinese influence but are happy to take their money and allow their  students in. They are either stupid or weak depending on your point of view. It is like fighting with a relative but happy to take their money.  Not fair for China either way to be hypocritical.

Hypocrisy is real in the world.

Can't argue with any of that.

In regards to Jones - he is not as black and white as people make out.

Sure, he defers to the conservative side of politics in general.

However he has sided with The Greens against "fracking".

In the arguments that the ABC is too left wing, he has defended the ABC saying that conservatives need to appear on shows like Q & A to argue their case (he appears often).

His criticisms of Morrison's lack of action in regard to the drought has been delivered quite angrily.

You could argue that he was a major influence in the fall of Liberal premier Mike Baird.

He is not a conservative stereotype that's for sure.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-11, 09:44 PM
What’s going on PP, we are agreeing with each other at times.

I do have a soft spot for Leicester  but my team is chasing their first title in 30 years so pardon me if I hope all the teams behind the Reds fail.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-11, 09:51 PM
What’s going on PP, we are agreeing with each other at times.

I do have a soft spot for Leicester  but my team is chasing their first title in 30 years so pardon me if I hope all the teams behind the Reds fail.

Liverpool will come down with the Xmas decorations. Remember my words.   :biggrin:

The Foxes are poised for another title. Treated Arsenal with contempt and we were very unlucky not to get a draw at Anfield a few weeks back.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-11, 09:59 PM
Liverpool will come down with the Xmas decorations. Remember my words.    :biggrin:  

The Foxes are poised for another title. Treated Arsenal with contempt and we were very unlucky not to get a draw at Anfield a few weeks back.

I kind of agree with you as we are alive in too many competitions.

Mind sound sacreligious but I would rather sacrifice the Champions League / FA cup this year for a Premiere League title.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Nov-12, 07:00 AM
How are Queens Park Rangers going nowadays
.
Last time I watched English soccer Phil Parks was in goal and Stan Bowles & Terry Vennables we’re on fire
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2019-Nov-12, 11:02 AM
WOD, the last time I watched English soccer Stanley Matthews was playing. Someone, the other day, told me he had sadly passed on.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-12, 11:06 AM
How are Queens Park Rangers going nowadays
.
Last time I watched English soccer Phil Parks was in goal and Stan Bowles & Terry Vennables we’re on fire

I think they've been in the top flight league once in the past 10 years and went straight back down again. They are currently in the second tier comp.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-14, 01:21 PM
ABC’s ‘serious breaches’ in horse racing cruelty story: Racing NSW

Lilly Vitorovich
Media Writer


Racing NSW chairman Russell Balding has accused the ABC of breaching editorial guidelines with its story on the horse racing industry, which recently aired on its 7.30 television program.

Mr Balding has made a complaint to ABC managing director David Anderson about its The Final Race program on the 7.30 show on October 17, alleging "serious and numerous breaches of the ABC's statutory duties, editorial policies and code of practice".

Mr Balding, who is a former ABC managing director, has outlined his numerous concerns in a 21-page letter sent to Mr Anderson, which is posted on Racing NSW’s website.

Racing NSW said on its website that the public broadcaster has "fallen far short of its statutory duty to ensure 'news and information is accurate and impartial according to the recognised standards' and its Editorial Policy requirements to 'uphold the fundamental journalistic principles of accuracy and impartiality'".

Racing NSW said it has been "depicted as being responsible for animal cruelty alleged to be occurring in some abattoirs and knackeries".

“In particular, the NSW racing industry is falsely and unfairly associated with such practices at Queensland’s Meramist Abattoir, in ways that state that the industry is complicit, knowledgeable, uncaring and/or indifferent,” the organisation said on its website.

In the letter, dated November 13, Mr Balding outlined 15 “serious issues” relating to ABC’s policies and code, particularly failures in relation to impartiality and diversity of perspectives, accuracy, fair and honest dealing.

Mr Balding said the ABC’s presentation of the interview with Racing NSW chief executive Peter V’landys is a “matter of great concern for its lack of fairness”.

“Despite an apparent two-year investigation, an interview was conducted with the CEO of Racing NSW just one day prior to broadcast. The request for interview came just six days prior to broadcast. The request contained no information about the contentious nature of the content. Only during the interview did it become clear that serious allegations were being made about the industry and in relation to Racing NSW,” Mr Balding said in the letter.

The ABC story also failed to include information provided to them prior to the show’s airing, he said.

Mr Balding also said there were a “number of significant factual inaccuracies and misrepresentations”. He concluded his letter by demanding a “detailed investigation by the ABC and appropriate corrections and clarifications”.

“It also seeks a fair and reasonable presentation of perspectives relating to the thoroughbred racing industry across ABC platforms. Racing NSW also seeks a public statement from the ABC noting that there is no evidence to support the allegations that the NSW racehorse industry is structurally organised or complicit in animal cruelty in any way.”

An ABC spokesperson said Racing NSW's complaint has been referred to the audience and consumer affairs department and "will be dealt with according to our usual procedures".

Typically, the department will “aim to respond within 30 days” of receiving a complaint, according to ABC’s website.

After the ABC responds, Racing NSW can lodge a complaint with the Australian Communications and Media Authority.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/abcs-serious-breaches-in-horse-racing-cruelty-story-racing-nsw/
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-14, 03:44 PM
What a shabby effort by RNSW after 3 weeks of pondering time.
Discrediting your accuser is a tired, worn out line of defense.

Why not came up with something like....."in 2016 there were 5000 thoroughbred foals born and we can account for X many.
Our OTT farms employ X amount of people and we have re-homed X amount of racehorses.
We have employed a full time welfare  compliance officer and so on.".......That's a proper line of defense

Whatever the figure was then it would be up to people to make up their own minds of what's acceptable.

One look at any on-line auction results shows  what the problem is here.......far too many horses being bred for an industry that doesn't want them, doesn't need them and doesn't really care about them.
That's the issue here for the Australian racing industry........own it and deal with it.

If RNSW wants to bring up Reliable Kingdom then bring up Tahitian Black, Next of Kin and National Flag........still listed as transferred or retired.......they were slaughtered!


Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Nov-14, 05:47 PM
What a shabby effort by RNSW after 3 weeks of pondering time.
Discrediting your accuser is a tired, worn out line of defense.

Why not came up with something like....."in 2016 there were 5000 thoroughbred foals born and we can account for X many.
Our OTT farms employ X amount of people and we have re-homed X amount of racehorses.
We have employed a full time welfare  compliance officer and so on.".......That's a proper line of defense

Whatever the figure was then it would be up to people to make up their own minds of what's acceptable.



I think it needs to be a little bit of column A & column B Nemisis.

I like what racing NSW has done, it certainly brings in question the motives and lack of objectivity from Caro Meldrum Hanna  :bulb: but they now need to follow up with their own facts to set the record straight and push back, wave it under the ABC's nose and ask why they failed to report the truth.  :tin:

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-14, 05:48 PM
As some of us knew all along, the ABC is doing the bidding of ratbag animal activists as well as a little bit of "get square" over the Louise Herron/Opera House thing - evidenced by the fact they put the show on on the first anniversary of the fight between Racing NSW and the Opera House.

The story was dishonest in that it blamed Racing NSW for something that they have no control over.

Not one skerrick of evidence of cruelty to horses in NSW was presented yet the head of Racing NSW was made the focus of the program.

And looking at the complaint he went in under false pretenses.

Time to get rid of the ABC. The proceeds of the sale and the money saved on not paying inner city latte set journalists could go to farmers and others suffering in the drought.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-14, 06:14 PM
I think it needs to be a little bit of column A & column B Nemisis.

I like what racing NSW has done, it certainly brings in question the motives and lack of objectivity from Caro Meldrum Hanna  :bulb: but they now need to follow up with their own facts to set the record straight and push back, wave it under the ABC's nose and ask why they failed to report the truth.  :tin:
Gintara , I'm quite happy to concede that the reporter doesn't like racing.......my grand daughter gives me a hard time too if she catches me watching it......and she's 8

The questions Caro Meldrum Hanna posed deserved answers.
There is nothing in that response from RNSW that would bother the ABC around fairness.

This day has been coming for a long time and racing chiefs should have been fully prepared for it.
 Having  the answers to some pretty obvious questions around wastage would have been a good start.

What is the truth you are talking about?

You can't blame anyone for not embracing greyhound racing when tying a piglet to an arm is all in a day's work to some......nor watching racehorses getting the fur whupped off them.

It looks a cruel industry to many.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-14, 06:26 PM
Racing NSW opened up a can of worms with this. They are going to blame ABC for factual inaccuracy, ambushing Racing NSW, surprising Vlandys etc. If done on commercial tv, episode would have twice the audience and will be award winning etc.

Now the usual conservatives and Racing NSW supporters on the bandwagon. I think majority of them have misread the general  mood of the public in regards to racing.

Instead of taking a conciliatory view and trying to fix the issue, this may expose other deficiencies.

Racing NSW’s reading of ABN, horses that were sent to the abattoirs will be highlighted again.

Racing is going to be the big winner as usual. Just wait for any whistleblowers to come out too now.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-14, 07:04 PM

Now the usual conservatives and Racing NSW supporters on the bandwagon.

So now that the program is being held to account we are all "on the bandwagon" are we?

That is a poor effort at justifying the inaccuracies in the program.

Russell Balding has made some serious, specific allegations that require specific answers. Cliches won't cut it.

e.g.

Racing NSW said it has been "depicted as being responsible for animal cruelty alleged to be occurring in some abattoirs and knackeries".

“In particular, the NSW racing industry is falsely and unfairly associated with such practices at Queensland’s Meramist Abattoir, in ways that state that the industry is complicit, knowledgeable, uncaring and/or indifferent,” the organisation said on its website.

(which is pretty much what I was saying all along)

“Despite an apparent two-year investigation, an interview was conducted with the CEO of Racing NSW just one day prior to broadcast. The request for interview came just six days prior to broadcast. The request contained no information about the contentious nature of the content. Only during the interview did it become clear that serious allegations were being made about the industry and in relation to Racing NSW,” Mr Balding said in the letter.

(I pointed out the poor editing of the PVL interview where the background kept changing - it was obviously rushed and edited to cut out certain things he said)

The ABC story also failed to include information provided to them prior to the show’s airing...

The program is totally discredited.

And there is the fact that the reporter appears to have withheld information about cruelty to horses in Queensland thereby extending the suffering of horses.

Shameful stuff.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-14, 07:11 PM
'It was driven by agenda': Owners and trainers back Racing NSW chairman in slamming ABC report

By Chris Roots
November 14, 2019 — 12.30pm


Prominent horse owners and trainers have endorsed a stinging letter of complaint sent by Racing NSW chairman Russell Balding to ABC managing director David Anderson about the 7.30 program that sent the industry into crisis.

In a 21-page letter published on the Racing NSW website Mr Balding slammed the national broadcaster's report on horse welfare that aired on October 17, alleging numerous serious breaches of the ABC's statutory duties, editorial policies and code of practice.

Mr Balding, a former ABC managing director, also raised concerns about the conduct of reporter Caro Meldrum-Hanna on social media following the program

"There is an unfairness at the core of the program's approach and coverage of the issue," Mr Balding said.

"There was no proper or serious attempt to present the perspective of the racing industry, which should have included the actions and work of Racing NSW [and other racing organisations] to address the welfare of thoroughbred racehorses, both during and after their racing careers.

"To the extent that they are referenced, they are done so in a manner to be contextualised and critiqued by the industry opponents featured in the program."

An ABC spokesperson said the national broadcaster had already responded to questions about the program but would aim to respond to the Racing NSW complaint within 30 days.

"The complaint from Racing NSW has been referred to Audience & Consumer Affairs and will be dealt with according to our usual procedures," an ABC spokesperson said.

Mr Balding’s official approach was supported by the Australian managing director of global racing powerhouse Godolphin, Vin Cox.

“It was sensationalist journalism, which the ABC should should be above and beyond. It was driven by agenda and did not reflect the reality of the majority of the industry,” Mr Cox said.

Melbourne Cup winning trainer David Hayes added his support to the Racing NSW stance, saying the industry "needs to hit back".

“I’m delighted to to see someone from the industry finally hitting back at this agenda journalism, which I believe lacked any balance. Racing NSW is showing the backbone that racing needs,” Mr Hayes said.

“I think everyone in the community was repulsed by what they saw in that program, but it wasn’t fair on how we care for our horses.

“It will never be measured how much damage this show has done to the industry and the spring carnival. It was designed to get maximum impact and achieved what they wanted to achieve."

The Racing NSW complaints include claims of factual inaccuracies, misrepresentations and a lack of independent verification of data and vision.

"It is disappointing that neither the ABC nor other parties involved in the two-year period of putting the program together apparently saw fit to report to authorities, when they became aware of the cruelty," Mr Balding said.

"While not within the ambit of this complaint – it is a matter for the ABC, as a public agency with integrity responsibilities, to consider. If the ABC has any evidence of abuse of thoroughbreds within the jurisdiction of Racing NSW, we would expect that such evidence be brought to Racing NSW's attention as soon as possible."

Mr Balding singled out Ms Meldrum-Hanna, questioning her impartiality and conduct in the program.

“Of further serious concern is the significant number of tweets and retweets the program reporter, Ms Caro Meldrum-Hanna, has made since the airing of the program,” Mr Balding wrote in the letter.

“To date we have obtained in excess of 65 pages of screen shots of these tweets which are illustrative of a contravention of the ABC’s Social Media Policy and suggest a lack of impartiality on behalf of the reporter when reporting on the thoroughbred racing industry.”

Ms Meldrum-Hanna was contacted on Thursday and referred the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age to ABC head of communications Sally Jackson.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/racing/racing-nsw-chairman-labels-abc-horse-welfare-report-unfair-at-its-core-20191114-p53akn.html

So the reporter can shoot her mouth off on twitter, but when called to account by The Herald she refers them on.

Don't they teach them how to accept responsibility at Loreto?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-14, 07:19 PM
I'll take these questions.

Without any shadow of a doubt NSW thoroughbreds are put through Meramist.

Since when does a highly paid CEO needs to see questions put to him about his own industry prior to the interview.......that's why he is highly paid.

If the report about Reliable Kingdom did reach the ABC prior to airing then yes should have been reported.......it was just a different thoroughbred.

When P Burns of Burns Pet Foods says he's killed champions......that's  someone speaking the truth.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-14, 07:23 PM
The article on the Racing NSW website has more detail about the discredited ABC report than is in the newspaper articles

https://www.racingnsw.com.au/news/announcements/summary-of-complaint-by-racing-nsw-chairman-russell-balding-ao-to-david-anderson-abc-managing-director/

e.g.

The unfairness is most clearly demonstrated in the interview of Racing NSW CEO, Mr Peter V’landys AM, who was not shown or made aware of the shocking footage of the sickening and abhorrent treatment of horses at Queensland’s Meramist Abattoir. Mr V’landys AM was denied the opportunity to present Racing NSW’s position in respect of that footage, which is broad and unconditional condemnation of such sickening and abhorrent treatment of horses. The audience would have been unaware that Mr V’landys AM had not been shown that footage or alerted to the treatment of horses at Queensland’s Meramist Abattoir nor given any opportunity to respond to, or comment on, that treatment. In stark contrast, two of the parties interviewed in the program, Mr Elio Celotto (from activist group, Coalition for the Protection of Racehorses) and Professor Paul McGreevy (a long-term critic of the racing industry), appear to have either been involved in obtaining, or provided with, privileged access to the footage shown on the “7.30” program and were allowed to comment specifically on the footage, with their perspective dominating the program.

Racing NSW takes strong measures to prevent the inappropriate disposal of racehorses within its jurisdiction. However, throughout the program, images, narration and commentary are presented of appalling practices in abattoirs and knackeries. Racing NSW has publicly condemned the cruelty identified. If Racing NSW had been aware of any instance of animal cruelty, whether relating to horses within its jurisdiction or not, or in relation to any animals, it would have immediately taken action itself where it had authority and, where it did not have jurisdiction, reported such matters to relevant authorities for action and rectification. This is especially important in relation to animal welfare.

and this is the bit that shows the reporter up for feigning concern about the welfare of horses - we all know she just wants a Walkley

It is disappointing that neither the ABC nor other parties involved in the two-year period of putting the program together apparently saw fit to report to authorities, when they became aware of the cruelty. While not within the ambit of this complaint, it is a matter for the ABC, as a public agency with integrity responsibilities, to consider. If the ABC has any evidence of abuse of thoroughbreds within the jurisdiction of Racing NSW, we would expect that such evidence be brought to Racing NSW’s attention as soon as possible.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-14, 07:53 PM
So V’Landys thinks he should be given a list of questions prior to an interview and not be ambushed.

Is this a joke? I do hope he gets used to unprepared questions when the NRL media go after him.

He must be used to the fawning Racing media and AJ etc if he thinks he should get a free ride.

I think this is an ego issue. I laughed at reference to the tweets etc. They got people for that but not for going to horse sales in Camden or even the nous to check ABNs properly.

In reference to the bandwagon, the ABC haters go straight into reduce funding etc. I for one will protest that as I do like the British shows on there.

But in a serious note, ok I lie, it is hilarious to see that  V’Landys declined to go on a media conference but decides to go on AJ’s show. However when the ABC reporter refers question to her head, it is not ok. Vlandys is a CEO.

Then we have people criticising the ABC reporter for breaching her social media policy but majority of these people support Folau’s breach of his social media policy.

The hypocrisy is amazing but due to the blinkers, people cannot see it.

The ABC has a case to answer with the delays etc. I think that should be the forefront of the inquiry.

I hope the defenders of Racing NSW are going to ask for the banning of a urrent affair and all unscripted interviews anywhere.

Vlandys win at all cost attitude is hilarious. NRL clubs are going to have some fun times. If he gets one complaint proven and rest rejected will still be a win for him once the spin doctors get ahold of it.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Nov-14, 07:58 PM
Gintara , I'm quite happy to concede that the reporter doesn't like racing.......my grand daughter gives me a hard time too if she catches me watching it......and she's 8

The questions Caro Meldrum Hanna posed deserved answers.
There is nothing in that response from RNSW that would bother the ABC around fairness.

This day has been coming for a long time and racing chiefs should have been fully prepared for it.
 Having  the answers to some pretty obvious questions around wastage would have been a good start.

What is the truth you are talking about?

You can't blame anyone for not embracing greyhound racing when tying a piglet to an arm is all in a day's work to some......nor watching racehorses getting the fur whupped off them.

It looks a cruel industry to many.

Nemisis I think you're missing the point - I'm in no way defending 'racing' I'm on record for handing back my ATC membership over PV's actions during the greyhound ban, he was dancing on the grave instead of rallying to another codes defence.

I pointed out then that their day will come and wastage will be the issue.

Still the release today is direct & to the point asking questions & pointing out failings, the program was a hatchet job and spun with little chance of defence from the industry. The casual observer with little knowledge now believes racing is evil & cruel  :bulb:

From a mob who is meant to be our national broadcaster it's a travesty that such twisted stories are allow to air with little to no balance.  emthdown
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Nov-14, 08:01 PM
The article on the Racing NSW website has more detail about the discredited ABC report than is in the newspaper articles

https://www.racingnsw.com.au/news/announcements/summary-of-complaint-by-racing-nsw-chairman-russell-balding-ao-to-david-anderson-abc-managing-director/

It is disappointing that neither the ABC nor other parties involved in the two-year period of putting the program together apparently saw fit to report to authorities, when they became aware of the cruelty. While not within the ambit of this complaint, it is a matter for the ABC, as a public agency with integrity responsibilities, to consider. If the ABC has any evidence of abuse of thoroughbreds within the jurisdiction of Racing NSW, we would expect that such evidence be brought to Racing NSW’s attention as soon as possible.

Some would have you believe It's all about the animals PP  :shutup:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-14, 08:31 PM
Nemisis I think you're missing the point - I'm in no way defending 'racing' I'm on record for handing back my ATC membership over PV's actions during the greyhound ban, he was dancing on the grave instead of rallying to another codes defence.

I pointed out then that their day will come and wastage will be the issue.

Still the release today is direct & to the point asking questions & pointing out failings, the program was a hatchet job and spun with little chance of defence from the industry. The casual observer with little knowledge now believes racing is evil & cruel  :bulb:

From a mob who is meant to be our national broadcaster it's a travesty that such twisted stories are allow to air with little to no balance.  emthdown
Gintara, the ABC did a story about the huge number of racehorses going to slaughter......contrary to what the industry wants to tell everybody.

So the balance here is for the industry to prove that they don't......and so far they can't.......and those reasons are obvious.

So what do they do then?......attack the credibility of the ABC......just as greyhound people did.......won't work!

As far as the timing of the 7.30 report goes......what's a good time or the right time as far as you are concerned?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-14, 09:09 PM
Gintara, the ABC did a story about the huge number of racehorses going to slaughter......contrary to what the industry wants to tell everybody.

So the balance here is for the industry to prove that they don't......and so far they can't.......and those reasons are obvious.

So what do they do then?......attack the credibility of the ABC......just as greyhound people did.......won't work!

As far as the timing of the 7.30 report goes......what's a good time or the right time as far as you are concerned?

The hypocrisy is that the Racing media are covering Racing NSW’s response in great detail but gave fleeting mention to the horse wastage issue previously.

By the way has everyone noticed there is no mention of defamation at all. Wonder why if Racing NSW and Vlandys feel they have been misrepresented. If I was represented as unfairly as they think they have, you would believe a court victory will be vindication.


Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-14, 10:32 PM
The hypocrisy is that the Racing media are covering Racing NSW’s response in great detail but gave fleeting mention to the horse wastage issue previously.

By the way has everyone noticed there is no mention of defamation at all. Wonder why if Racing NSW and Vlandys feel they have been misrepresented. If I was represented as unfairly as they think they have, you would believe a court victory will be vindication.

There is no hypocrisy.

As stated by Racing NSW

Yet there is no effort by the program to explain that Racing NSW has no association with, or control over, Queensland’s Meramist Abattoir or was aware of the atrocities occurring at that facility. Further, no substantive evidence of these serious and unfounded allegations are presented on the program.

So the question is why in your post are you not mentioning Racing Qld or Racing Victoria? Why are you even mentioning Racing NSW?

In fact you and nemisis do not seem to know that Meramist is in Queensland? Or that animal cruelty is covered by the Queensland state legislature and has nothing to do with RQ? It certainly has nothing to do with Racing NSW.

Yet the program quite clearly tried to put the blame on Racing NSW for everything that was shown.

nemisis will carry on about racehorses in abattoirs conveniently ignoring the fact that NSW is the first state to have banned racehorses being sent for slaughter in this state.

14 cases out of 10,000 retired racehorses is not a systemic issue.

In fact if the ABC co-operated the 14 cases could be cleared up.

But they are not. They do not care about horses. It is all about "the story" - one which has been sensationalized to the point it is inaccurate.  emthdown
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-14, 10:39 PM
Some would have you believe It's all about the animals PP  :shutup:

  :lol:

Yeah. The Loreto girl would have had her Walkley signed, sealed and delivered.

Given the politically correct "latte set" influence in these awards she will probably still get it.

They haven't forgotten the Opera House.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-14, 11:06 PM
There is no hypocrisy.

As stated by Racing NSW

Yet there is no effort by the program to explain that Racing NSW has no association with, or control over, Queensland’s Meramist Abattoir or was aware of the atrocities occurring at that facility. Further, no substantive evidence of these serious and unfounded allegations are presented on the program.

So the question is why in your post are you not mentioning Racing Qld or Racing Victoria? Why are you even mentioning Racing NSW?

In fact you and nemisis do not seem to know that Meramist is in Queensland? Or that animal cruelty is covered by the Queensland state legislature and has nothing to do with RQ? It certainly has nothing to do with Racing NSW.

Yet the program quite clearly tried to put the blame on Racing NSW for everything that was shown.

nemisis will carry on about racehorses in abattoirs conveniently ignoring the fact that NSW is the first state to have banned racehorses being sent for slaughter in this state.

14 cases out of 10,000 retired racehorses is not a systemic issue.

In fact if the ABC co-operated the 14 cases could be cleared up.

But they are not. They do not care about horses. It is all about "the story" - one which has been sensationalized to the point it is inaccurate.  emthdown

PP, was it 14/10000 or 14 found in a month. I read the latter in a media report previously and stand to be corrected.

In regards to Racing NSW, we are all commenting on it now as Racing NSW released a statement attacking the story. So we cannot comment negatively on Racing NSW’s response. The Qld Government are doing an inquiry while Racing Victoria are making some comments regards tackling the problems.

There is no mention on any of your posts how Racing NSW stuffed up a simple ABN search in regards to a horse or do they do know anything about the Camden sales.

So PP, if a horse got sold at Camden and went to Qld abattoir, is it a Racing NSW issue or Racing Qld?

Poor V’landys. He must hate the fact that he is portrayed in such a bad light. I think like the Opera House saga, he has misread the general sentiment.

He should have acknowledged the issue post report. I think he has done a lot for NSW racing but this issue will spoil his legacy for the future.





Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-14, 11:13 PM
So V’Landys thinks he should be given a list of questions prior to an interview and not be ambushed.

Is this a joke? I do hope he gets used to unprepared questions when the NRL media go after him.

He must be used to the fawning Racing media and AJ etc if he thinks he should get a free ride.

I think this is an ego issue. I laughed at reference to the tweets etc. They got people for that but not for going to horse sales in Camden or even the nous to check ABNs properly.

In reference to the bandwagon, the ABC haters go straight into reduce funding etc. I for one will protest that as I do like the British shows on there.

But in a serious note, ok I lie, it is hilarious to see that  V’Landys declined to go on a media conference but decides to go on AJ’s show. However when the ABC reporter refers question to her head, it is not ok. Vlandys is a CEO.

Then we have people criticising the ABC reporter for breaching her social media policy but majority of these people support Folau’s breach of his social media policy.

The hypocrisy is amazing but due to the blinkers, people cannot see it.

The ABC has a case to answer with the delays etc. I think that should be the forefront of the inquiry.

I hope the defenders of Racing NSW are going to ask for the banning of a urrent affair and all unscripted interviews anywhere.

Vlandys win at all cost attitude is hilarious. NRL clubs are going to have some fun times. If he gets one complaint proven and rest rejected will still be a win for him once the spin doctors get ahold of it.


I had to quote myself just for PP.   :lol:  
 :lol:

V’landys criticism seem to have you frothing.  :beer:

Ok, I will stop making fun of V’landys and his request for questions beforehand.   :chin:

I will make an unconditional apology to PP and Vlandys for hurting their feelings.  :sweat:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-14, 11:40 PM
...and your responses are now explicitly anti Peter V'Landys. You are no longer trying to hide it.

It has nothing to do with Racing NSW.

If you (and nemesis) want to use the suffering of animals as some sort of vehicle to have a go at PVL and Racing NSW then go knock yourself out.

The first thing I thought when I saw the story was that I hoped they got that sadist away from horses.

You, nemesis and the ABC (and a heap of others) do not seem to care less about animal welfare. It is more an opportunity to have a go at an individual who you hate (for whatever reason) and who is not responsible for what we saw in the show.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-15, 06:28 AM
Oh PP, it is hilarious to see how much any criticism of V’landys annoys you. He is the CEO of Racing NSW. The buck stops with him as he is the CEO. We see it all the time in business world and in government. That is why the CEOs get paid the big bucks.

Unlike you, I can also see both sides of V’landys. I give praise and criticise where I think is warranted.Thus if you go through some of my posts on V’landys topics, you will see that.

However I do doubt if you can do that. I might be maligning you but if you could quote 10 of your posts taking a stand against Vlandys on any issue I would issue an unreserved apology that you are a V’landys apologist.

This debate reminds me of politics. Each side refusing to acknowledge middle voters and saying, if you are not for me, you are against me. No difference between conservatives and activists when it comes to that. The closeted mind but they will preach far and wide how open they are and the other side does not respect their views.

I fear the V’landys debate is just that. It is one side or the other. No objectivity from his apologists or critics.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-15, 12:20 PM
Oh PP, it is hilarious to see how much any criticism of V’landys annoys you. He is the CEO of Racing NSW. The buck stops with him as he is the CEO. We see it all the time in business world and in government. That is why the CEOs get paid the big bucks.

Unlike you, I can also see both sides of V’landys. I give praise and criticise where I think is warranted.Thus if you go through some of my posts on V’landys topics, you will see that.

However I do doubt if you can do that. I might be maligning you but if you could quote 10 of your posts taking a stand against Vlandys on any issue I would issue an unreserved apology that you are a V’landys apologist.

This debate reminds me of politics. Each side refusing to acknowledge middle voters and saying, if you are not for me, you are against me. No difference between conservatives and activists when it comes to that. The closeted mind but they will preach far and wide how open they are and the other side does not respect their views.

I fear the V’landys debate is just that. It is one side or the other. No objectivity from his apologists or critics.

You seem to me to be obfuscating by making reference to me, who has nothing to do with the issue.

The point you never, ever address, and the one I have been laboring is this:

Yet there is no effort by the program to explain that Racing NSW has no association with, or control over, Queensland’s Meramist Abattoir or was aware of the atrocities occurring at that facility. Further, no substantive evidence of these serious and unfounded allegations are presented on the program.

The program clearly attempts to blame Racing NSW and PVL for all the ills of the horse racing industry.

Where were the interviews with Giles Thompson and Brendan Parnell? Given animal cruelty is a criminal offence maybe she should have interviewed Annastacia Palaszczuk?

But no. The other interviewee was the head of HRNSW and he too appears to have been set up.

Maybe the Loreto girl doing the reporting doesn't like leaving the Sydney North Shore or something.

Anyway, it has lost all credibility now so let's see what the ABC says after their internal investigation.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-15, 02:08 PM
It's hard to get my head around someone who posted over 20,000 times could be so hard of hearing.

You could do us all a favour if you looked at the welfare policies of Queensland, Victoria and NSW racing...... spot the difference.

Nowhere will you see statements around 1% going to slaughter, horses put through unauthorised sales or going direct to knackeries other than in the RNSW policy.

So NSW horses were found at Meramist, Camden Sales and Burn's and Luddenham Pet Foods way too easily.......so that is the case against P V'Landys.

No-one is blaming P V'Landys for the cruelty at Meramist, but if he hadn't made stupid rules, that he doesn't enforce, then the programme could only have been about cruelty and over supply..........that's an Australian wide problem.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-15, 03:10 PM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-14/wa-racehorses-welfare-plan-to-track-wellbeing-of-retired-horses/11702504?pfmredir=sm&fbclid=IwAR0ri8s_pjrl2R9YJiB0VFGFQipR-2dIERQuiC72d96uqMahCCfjikHRqgM

This is a more honest approach from WA.

Promises very little apart from an occasional check on abattoirs and knackeries.

It's really the platform racing will have to stand on.......tough sell for racing staff employed in sales offices seeking sponsorships for races in the future if this is what you would be endorsing.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-16, 09:14 PM
I finally discovered the real reason for the decline of racing crowds in Melbourne. It is not due to the 7.30 report, people losing interest, entry tickets,  the new NSW racing features etc.

I am in Melbourne this weekend and decided to pop in to Sandown to check the races out as it has almost two decades since my last visit to Sandown. That is when I discovered the staggering reason why crowds are declining.

It is the price or hot dogs. It is $7 or $9 with the lot for a bun with a hot dog which has been sitting in a plastic wrapper, yep wrapper. A Pepsi 600ml cost $5.20. As it was cold, I bough a few chips for my group and did not get much change for $30 for very pedestrian food. I don’t blame the sellers of the food as they were nice but the race clubs for not looking at the complete package for a race goer.

For most non regular racegoers, the food and drink price drives  them away from attending the races as a regular event and thus impacting the turnover in the long run.

As a small punter, it beggars belief why I would goto the track when  I can go to my local TAB or at home where I can have 6 hotdogs for the same price of one at the track or even 4 litres if I was inclined of Pepsi.

A big shout out though for Craig Williams as he was amongst the kids signing autographs and taking selfies. A really nice gesture and was an absolute gentleman.  The kids were mesmerised and so were their parents.

That is what Racing needs to concentrate on, low food prices and more exposure of the horses, jockeys and trainers. Make it an event as V’landys has done with the Everest.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Nov-17, 07:16 AM
Spot on Jeunes
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Nov-17, 09:54 AM
Jeunes I stand corrected but I read somewhere that Cup day admission was nearly $100  :wacko: throw on top food & drink and it doesn't leave much in the kick and worse if you have a family.

My 11 year old is into soccer so I took her & the family to the Matildas v Chile last week. Yes it was a friendly but we brought a $50 family ticket, perfect seats at Bankwest (no bad seats really) which was great value imho for an afternoon out.

Granted I spent another $180 at the game on jersey, ball & food  :dry:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-17, 10:26 AM
https://about.abc.net.au/correcting-the-record/abc-responses-on-the-final-race/

This is a response from the ABC a week after the 7.30 report.......only just read it.

A couple of things stand out for me.....
Hardwicke Stud in Yass were responsible for the penful of young stock at Meramist......sad indictment for racing when young stock are slaughtered before even tried for the purpose for which they are bred.
Hardwicke Stud have responded by saying this was stock that was "given away"

Reliable Kingdom had in fact been put through Camden Sales and purchased by Burn's Pet Foods......seems that the previous owners were notified ( you can only wonder by who) and he was one of only a few racehorses to be driven out of that facility.

I also would doubt that P Loffel transports 400 horses a fortnight......he's Victorian based and his b double holds 40 horses and my understanding he does a fortnightly run......maybe a typo?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Arsenal on 2019-Nov-17, 11:31 AM
The Final Race was shown on TV on 17th October the ABC response in the link posted by nemisis is dated 24th October...... RNSW complaint to the ABC was dated 14 November the question is was RNSW aware of the follow up ABC report of 24th October...... likely to be more correspondence if the ABC considers there are issues not responded to previously.

I imagine Hardwick stud would have been visited by this if RNSW was aware of it being named in the 24th October response.

Giddy Up :beer:

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-17, 04:05 PM
The Final Race was shown on TV on 17th October the ABC response in the link posted by nemisis is dated 24th October...... RNSW complaint to the ABC was dated 14 November the question is was RNSW aware of the follow up ABC report of 24th October...... likely to be more correspondence if the ABC considers there are issues not responded to previously.

I imagine Hardwick stud would have been visited by this if RNSW was aware of it being named in the 24th October response.

Giddy Up :beer:

Correct.

The matter is now with the body that deals with complaints at the ABC. The response link posted by nemesis is outdated.

In particular, the most serious allegation leveled at the program by Racing NSW (and a lot of other people I might add) is this:

It is disappointing that neither the ABC nor other parties involved in the two-year period of putting the program together apparently saw fit to report to authorities, when they became aware of the cruelty. While not within the ambit of this complaint, it is a matter for the ABC, as a public agency with integrity responsibilities, to consider. If the ABC has any evidence of abuse of thoroughbreds within the jurisdiction of Racing NSW, we would expect that such evidence be brought to Racing NSW’s attention as soon as possible.

The outdated report twisted the allegation into something they could answer - and get around addressing the specific allegation:

Was the ABC provided with footage of other horses being slaughtered and if so, why wasn’t that reported on? Is there no concern from the ABC about these animals?

The ABC was reporting on horse racing and wastage, not the slaughter of other animals. The racing industry has introduced and enshrined rules and policies regarding wastage and traceability and the program was examining that.

Talk about obfuscation.

This is the most serious allegation made of the ABC

It will be interesting to see how this specific allegation is responded to by the ABC.

On the information available, the ABC may have permitted hundreds of horses to suffer at the hands of the Meramist sadist just so they could "get their story" and delay it until two days before the Everest.

That action in itself is animal cruelty of the highest order.

You could perhaps make a case (debatable) for criminal charges to be laid under the NSW Prevention Of Cruelty To Animals Act 1979 - Section 33C, which states:

33C Complicity and common purpose

    (1) A person who aids, abets, counsels or procures the commission of an offence against this Act or the regulations by another person is taken to have committed that offence and is punishable accordingly.

    (2) For the person to be found guilty:

        (a) the person's conduct must have in fact aided, abetted, counselled or procured the commission of the offence by the other person, and

        (b) the offence must have been committed by the other person.

    (3) A person cannot be found guilty of aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring the commission of an offence if, before the offence was committed, the person:

        (a) terminated his or her involvement, and

        (b) took all reasonable steps to prevent the commission of the offence.

    (4) A person may be found guilty of aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring the commission of an offence even if the principal offender has not been proceeded against or convicted for the offence.

https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdb/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/poctaa1979360/

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Nov-17, 06:08 PM
Love your work PP👍
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-17, 07:49 PM
Might be "outdated" but it contains all the answers to any of the questions you've posed on here.

All you are left with now is an answer to a question you don't like.......I would say you've been KO'd.

Who are the "authorities" you are talking about?.....It's an abattoir......I'll be surprised if there if a lot comes from out of it to be honest......maybe a worker or two will be sanctioned.

If you refer back to page 4 there is a clue there about the problems around reporting things of this nature.

Don't follow RNSW lead with the character assassination of the reporter, instead offer some ideas around improving the lot of racehorses.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Nov-17, 08:34 PM


Don't follow RNSW lead with the character assassination of the reporter, instead offer some ideas around improving the lot of racehorses.

It's a game of inches Nemisis and no doubt racing needs to take steps forward but remember - two wrongs don't make it right.  :bulb:

Caro Meldrum will probably win an award for this but like she did with the greyhounds, she stood by while others suffered all in the name of her 'story'

How anyone can be ok with that is mind numbing.  emthdown
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-17, 09:16 PM
It's a game of inches Nemisis and no doubt racing needs to take steps forward but remember - two wrongs don't make it right.  :bulb:

Caro Meldrum will probably win an award for this but like she did with the greyhounds, she stood by while others suffered all in the name of her 'story'

How anyone can be ok with that is mind numbing.  emthdown
14,000 horses being bred into an industry that needs 9,000 is not a game of inches.

I understand early Wednesday is horse kill day at Meramist and I can't see how footage from this week will look a lot better than what we saw in the 7.30 report.

Your disdain for the reporter has been obvious from the start here and on any other threads that her name gets a mention.......unfortunately!
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-17, 09:42 PM
14,000 horses being bred into an industry that needs 9,000 is not a game of inches.


That is a completely different issue.

There are a lot of moving parts he

i) The issue of animal cruelty captured by hidden camera at the Meramist abattoir
ii) The issue of horses being sent to abattoirs full stop
iii) The number of horses being bred and if it exceeds demand
iv) The scale of the problem of NSW racehorses ending up in abbotoirs

My thoughts FWIW:

i) The ABC has been irresponsible in not reporting what was seen on that footage as soon as it became apparent. Both the reporter and the team at the 7.30 report have displayed a cruel disregard for the welfare of horses by their actions and the management of the ABC should acknowledge this and apologize

ii) As stated before, I classify horses along with dogs as a different, more intelligent type of animal that do not deserve to have their lives ended in abattoirs. They are not the same as sheep and cattle. Horses and dogs were bred to help mankind prosper and part of this breeding was to introduce intelligence into them. Cattle and sheep were bred specifically to supply mankind with food.

I think the practice of horses having their lives ending in abattoirs should be banned. If the Germans or Chinese or whoever want horse and dog meat then let them slaughter their own.

iii) I do not know enough to make an informed comment.

iv) 14 or 16 out of 10,000 seems to be a figure to be applauded to me. What are the Victorian and Queensland figures? Seems to have been conveniently left out of the discussions.


I am concentrating on point i) and make no apologies for doing that or my comments. The ABC has been reprehensible in their behaviour.

Any horse lover who saw the footage would have been horrified at the Meramist footage and the expectation would have been that the ABC did the right thing and would have rescued horses suffering the same fate immediately. But they didn't. They put "journalism" ahead of horse welfare and now should cop the criticism they deserve.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-17, 10:43 PM
PP, why do you stick with the figure of 14? My understanding is the ABC report was based on a coverage of 22 days so if the 14 you are referring to could be over just 22 days. Is there any evidence to support that it was 14 over a whole year?

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-18/slaughter-abuse-of-racehorses-undermines-industry-animal-welfare/11603834?pfmredir=sm
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-18, 12:23 AM
PP, why do you stick with the figure of 14? My understanding is the ABC report was based on a coverage of 22 days so if the 14 you are referring to could be over just 22 days. Is there any evidence to support that it was 14 over a whole year?

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-18/slaughter-abuse-of-racehorses-undermines-industry-animal-welfare/11603834?pfmredir=sm

The report you quoted has confusing details.

Quoting directly from your link - and my questions in red.

For the past two years Elio Celotto and the Coalition for the Protection of Racehorses have been watching the Meramist Abattoir located north of Brisbane.

Using perimeter cameras, they have recorded the daily activities on the ground.

Meramist slaughters mixed livestock, including an estimated 500 horses a month.

These are "horses" - not thouroughbred racehorses which the allegations pertain to


Thoroughbreds identified at Meramist in the last 18 months

    Sunny Fame
    Only Money
    Rapid Feet
    Bumbunga
    Valtari
    Moonline Dancer
    Take A Chance
    Vortuka
    Absolutely Win

So nine thoroughbreds in 18 months. Then immediately below that table is this:

The process has revealed around 300 racehorses went through Meramist Abattoir in just 22 days.

So how can they say in one paragraph that there were 9 in 18 months and in the next say that there were 300 in 22 days.

Do you see my problem with the ABC figures?



Any comment Jeunes on the ABC not revealing cruelty as soon as they became aware of it? I notice you seem to drag us off the main point of criticism every time.

I take it that you must think it is OK to extend the suffering of horses for (what looks to be 2 years) because it is justified by "the cause" - whatever the "cause" is - Walkley Award for journalists with hyphenated surnames, hatred of Peter V'Landys and Racing NSW, whatever.

And as I said above, I would like to see them ban racehorses being sent to abattoirs altogether. Of all the states, NSW seems closer to this position than any other state yet the false narrative is suggesting the complete opposite.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-18, 05:44 AM
PP, please stop putting words in people’s mouths regarding if it is ok for the report to have  taken two years etc and cruelty aspects..

I have consistently asked for an inquiry so that the ABC, Racing bodies including your hero Vlandys can face questions.

The questions should include why it took so long to report the cruelty and questions for all Racing bodies regarding tracking etc.

Vlandys can answer the questions you have refused to answer previously ie did Racing NSW know about Camden Horse Sales considering they had a person write to them and they responded back so why the denials. Also how come they could not do a simple ABN search as alluded in some of the stories posted by others.

Below is a link that Arsenal posted which contradicts V’landys and Racing NSW knowledge of Camden sales.

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-24/racing-nsw-told-about-prohibited-thoroughbred-sales-2018-emails/11633132?pfmredir=sm

Everyone is accountable for this mess including the ABC and Racing Bodies so let’s find the truth. I think having everyone under the microscope and having people finally respond to questions under oath will give an inclination to the public that no one is above facing scrutiny.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Nov-18, 09:01 AM
14,000 horses being bred into an industry that needs 9,000 is not a game of inches.!


Nem, how do you come to the conclusion we only need 9000?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Arsenal on 2019-Nov-18, 09:52 AM
The 21 page letter from RNSW to the ABC would have been drafted by one of Sydney's most expensive legal firms while very detailed as one would expect from a high profile lawyer making a submission in a pleading in a court of law IMO  it was far too long for the ABC to expect them to respond in detail it'll probably finish in the WPB if it isn't in it already ...RNSW is upset V'Landys was ambushed that's what investigative journos do V'Landys has been around long enough to know that....he went in to the interview with his eyes wide open ....it's a non issue really what is of interest at present is the Hardwicke Stud allegations in the ABC follow up report one week after the 4 Corners program ....nothing on the RNSW website indicates RNSW were aware of this allegation or had taken any action to investigate the claims that the stud ships unwanted stock to be slaughtered ...RNSW has been alerted to this issue let's see how they respond.

Giddy Up :beer:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-18, 11:20 AM

Below is a link that Arsenal posted which contradicts V’landys and Racing NSW knowledge of Camden sales.

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-24/racing-nsw-told-about-prohibited-thoroughbred-sales-2018-emails/11633132?pfmredir=sm


It allegedly contradicts V'Landys.

What happened to the one eyed filly wouldn't have happened if they banned horses being slaughtered in abattoirs.

Racing NSW told Ms Jorgensen it could not act because the business is in Victoria, but there is a business with an almost identical name belonging to the owner of NSW knackery Burns Pet Foods

Are you saying that Racing NSW is lying? Is there not a business in Victoria with a similar name that could have been deliberately involved to flout the laws by deception? Do you know this for sure?

And be very careful supporting people like Mehreen Faruqi calling for Royal Commissions.

If she has her way there will be no horse racing any more.

And can I once again labour the very point made by Racing NSW in their complaint

Yet there is no effort by the program to explain that Racing NSW has no association with, or control over, Queensland’s Meramist Abattoir or was aware of the atrocities occurring at that facility. Further, no substantive evidence of these serious and unfounded allegations are presented on the program.

The purpose of creating a false narrative where Racing Victoria and Racing Queensland are excluded from any discussion is part of the "pile on".

This discredits a lot of critics and it is getting to the point you just have to conclude that a lot of this is driven by their hatred of one person rather than a genuine concern for animal welfare.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-18, 01:22 PM
It allegedly contradicts V'Landys.

What happened to the one eyed filly wouldn't have happened if they banned horses being slaughtered in abattoirs.

Racing NSW told Ms Jorgensen it could not act because the business is in Victoria, but there is a business with an almost identical name belonging to the owner of NSW knackery Burns Pet Foods

Are you saying that Racing NSW is lying? Is there not a business in Victoria with a similar name that could have been deliberately involved to flout the laws by deception? Do you know this for sure?

And be very careful supporting people like Mehreen Faruqi calling for Royal Commissions.

If she has her way there will be no horse racing any more.

And can I once again labour the very point made by Racing NSW in their complaint

Yet there is no effort by the program to explain that Racing NSW has no association with, or control over, Queensland’s Meramist Abattoir or was aware of the atrocities occurring at that facility. Further, no substantive evidence of these serious and unfounded allegations are presented on the program.

The purpose of creating a false narrative where Racing Victoria and Racing Queensland are excluded from any discussion is part of the "pile on".

This discredits a lot of critics and it is getting to the point you just have to conclude that a lot of this is driven by their hatred of one person rather than a genuine concern for animal welfare.

So when Racing NSW said in a statement they had no knowledge of Camden Sales but Racing NSW has sent a letter advising Ms Jorgensen they could not act, who is telling the “alleged” truth or which “truth” from Racing NSW we should believe. PP, I like you to advise which “alleged truth@ to believe?

The other issue is that Racing NSW could not put two and two together after they were advised of the pet food supplier name etc. it is like someone saying in because there are people with similar names, it is too hard to dig further. That is not compliance, it is laziness 

If that is Racing NSW way of handling investigations, there is a big issue especially as the response was within 24 hours.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-18, 02:16 PM
So when Racing NSW said in a statement they had no knowledge of Camden Sales but Racing NSW has sent a letter advising Ms Jorgensen they could not act, who is telling the “alleged” truth or which “truth” from Racing NSW we should believe. PP, I like you to advise which “alleged truth@ to believe?

The other issue is that Racing NSW could not put two and two together after they were advised of the pet food supplier name etc. it is like someone saying in because there are people with similar names, it is too hard to dig further. That is not compliance, it is laziness 

If that is Racing NSW way of handling investigations, there is a big issue especially as the response was within 24 hours.

Honest questions.

Can you point me in the direction of the relevant legislation where it says Racing NSW is responsible for cruelty to animals and racehorses being slaughtered in NSW abattoirs?

And just so we don't perpetuate the false narrative about this being a Racing NSW issue alone (NSW has led the way in horse welfare), do you know what the responsibilities are of Racing Queensland and Racing Victoria in respect of horse welfare?

This is the link for NSW Prevention of Cruelty To Animals Act.

I looked but I couldn't see where it says Peter V'Landys is responsible for the welfare of every racehorse in NSW

https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdb/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/poctaa1979360/

Looking forward to your answers   emthup
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-18, 02:33 PM
Honest questions.

Can you point me in the direction of the relevant legislation where it says Racing NSW is responsible for cruelty to animals and racehorses being slaughtered in NSW abattoirs?

And just so we don't perpetuate the false narrative about this being a Racing NSW issue alone (NSW has led the way in horse welfare), do you know what the responsibilities are of Racing Queensland and Racing Victoria in respect of horse welfare?

This is the link for NSW Prevention of Cruelty To Animals Act.

I looked but I couldn't see where it says Peter V'Landys is responsible for the welfare of every racehorse in NSW

https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdb/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/poctaa1979360/

Looking forward to your answers       emthup    

If you read all my posts, you would see all the Racing bodies have a responsibility. The difference is Queensland is having an inquiry while Racing Victoria are starting dialogue moving forward. Those bodies chose not to attack ABC but handle the root cause which causing the non racing public and sponsors issues.


Interesting that you brought the Cruelty Act as you implied the ABC reporter may be liable too. So my question is if someone brought about allegations of where Racing NSW law has been circumvented or ignored, what are the penalties and if none, was Racing NSW act of preventing racehorses sent to knackeries just a PR stunt especially if they did not investigate it properly.

Racing NSW has a law that prevents racehorses being used for animal consumption or similar in NSW. Why have this law if you cannot enforce it especially if the investigators cannot do a simple ABN search and then deny they new about Camden sales? Was it a propaganda stunt? If you want to put yourself as superior for having a rule then enforce it.

I have advised my views about racing bodies previously. Qld are having an inquiry and Racing Victoria are trying to have dialogue. They both chose to do something about the report and the root cause.

The general public think all Racing bodies should be responsible for all racehorses from start to finish. We can the debate the realistic option till the cows come home. However none of the Racing bodies including Racing NSW want to discuss it or refute the notion so you should ask V’landys the question of responsibility for Racing NSW as you asked me especially if he can attend an open “unscripted” media session.

I was decent and answered your questions where once again you failed to answer my questions. So if you are going to quote me in the future, please answer the questions of the “alleged truth”.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-18, 02:44 PM
So when Racing NSW said in a statement they had no knowledge of Camden Sales but Racing NSW has sent a letter advising Ms Jorgensen they could not act, who is telling the “alleged” truth or which “truth” from Racing NSW we should believe. PP, I like you to advise which “alleged truth@ to believe?

The other issue is that Racing NSW could not put two and two together after they were advised of the pet food supplier name etc. it is like someone saying in because there are people with similar names, it is too hard to dig further. That is not compliance, it is laziness 

If that is Racing NSW way of handling investigations, there is a big issue especially as the response was within 24 hours.

Cmon PP, please feel to answer the “alleged truth”? Which version????
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Nov-18, 05:54 PM
14,000 horses being bred into an industry that needs 9,000 is not a game of inches.

I understand early Wednesday is horse kill day at Meramist and I can't see how footage from this week will look a lot better than what we saw in the 7.30 report.

Your disdain for the reporter has been obvious from the start here and on any other threads that her name gets a mention.......unfortunately!

Nemisis by game of inches I mean moving forward. You can't expect racing to suddenly be perfect, it takes time to establish and importantly police the correct policies.

You're correct and she deserves every bit of disdain too. I my eyes she's an agenda driven activist who twists what she can to suit her spiel. If she told me the sky was blue I'd go out and check - that's how much I believe her 'facts'  emthdown
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-18, 06:10 PM
Nemisis by game of inches I mean moving forward. You can expect racing to suddenly be perfect, it takes time to establish and importantly police the correct policies.

You're correct and she deserves every bit of disdain too. I my eyes she's an agenda driven activist who twists what she can to suit her spiel. If she told me the sky was blue I'd go out and check - that's how much I believe her 'facts'  emthdown

  emthup
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-18, 06:14 PM
If you read all my posts, you would see all the Racing bodies have a responsibility. The difference is Queensland is having an inquiry while Racing Victoria are starting dialogue moving forward. Those bodies chose not to attack ABC but handle the root cause which causing the non racing public and sponsors issues.


Yeah they are not attacking the ABC because they weren't attacked in the first place and aren't falsely being portrayed as the devil in all of this. They are way behind NSW in horse welfare.

"Racing Victoria are starting dialogue moving forward"

  :lol:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Arsenal on 2019-Nov-18, 06:40 PM
QRIC extends amnesty to allow more time for owners of retired racehorses and trotters to comply with their obligations.

https://qric.qld.gov.au/news/qric-amnesty-on-horse-retirement-extended/


Giddy Up :beer: 
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-18, 07:28 PM
Yeah they are not attacking the ABC because they weren't attacked in the first place and aren't falsely being portrayed as the devil in all of this. They are way behind NSW in horse welfare.

"Racing Victoria are starting dialogue moving forward"

   :lol:

Still ducking the questions?

I am going to rename you Pete’s Pen.   :lol:   :lol:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-18, 07:39 PM
An interesting article from Racenet. 2nd paragraph about prizemoney may become reality but not sure regarding timeframes.

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/it-s-time-to-forget-about-posturing-and-act-on-abc-program-20191118
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-18, 08:28 PM
PP7 you in particular want to persist with questions when the answers are already on the thread.

Read the "outdated" ABC response 3 or 4 times and pay close attention.

The Meramist footage that was provided to the ABC was based on 22 visits spanning 2 years, which involved scanning microchips and filming branding.....I'm certain you'll be suggesting all the extreme footage will be 2 years old but that is your problem.

Your question around P V'Landys responsibility is also there but I'll quote it for you" The objective is that no horse that races or is domiciled in NSW- doesn't have to get to a racecourse, but if it is born, bred or domiciled predominately in NSW, we need to provide it a home".....that is a strong, unequivocal statement isn't it?..... he needs to back it up.

I think you and Gin need to prepare yourself for some disappointment....award winning doco I'll say.
I congratulate Caro Meldrum-Hanna for her effort........she clearly has worked with people that know their stuff around the Australian Stud book .....it's very thorough and any uncertainty I had around Reliable Kingdom has been dealt there as well.

Finally on The Fitzgeral Pastoral Company AKA as Burn's Pet foods......anyone  that's been around a horse sale would know his distinctive Dogger's truck......Inglis and RNSW included.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-18, 09:15 PM
... while Racing Victoria are starting dialogue moving forward.

I notice that you said you were working in Melbourne.

Do you work for the Victorian public service Jeunes?

That's the sort of thing people say when they are doing nothing  :shutup:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-18, 09:34 PM
I notice that you said you were working in Melbourne.

Do you work for the Victorian public service Jeunes?

That's the sort of thing people say when they are doing nothing  :shutup:

Nice try Peter’s Pen. I said I was in Melbourne for the weekend but then again your attention to detail is similar to your pal Peter.   :lol:

Like your pal, you have failed to answer the questions asked of you. The only difference is you have been given ample opportunities and yet failed to come out and answer the question.

Peter’s Pal, I am a Sydneysider through and through. Love Sydney and unlike you, I don’t have an agenda. 

Your agenda is to protect Peter at all costs so do you work for Peter or is it another question you cannot answer?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-18, 09:48 PM
Nice try Peter’s Pen. I said I was in Melbourne for the weekend but then again your attention to detail is similar to your pal Peter.   :lol:

Like your pal, you have failed to answer the questions asked of you. The only difference is you have been given ample opportunities and yet failed to come out and answer the question.

Peter’s Pal, I am a Sydneysider through and through. Love Sydney and unlike you, I don’t have an agenda. 

Your agenda is to protect Peter at all costs so do you work for Peter or is it another question you cannot answer?

I'll immediately start a dialogue on your questions moving forward..........
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-18, 09:57 PM
I'll immediately start a dialogue on your questions moving forward..........

Thanks Peter’s Pen. When you are ready for a media conference, I will consider any requests for pre-warning of questions seriously. I will give it the due due consideration it deserves and respond within 24 hours as per Racing NSW standard of investigation of an ABN .
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-19, 09:42 PM
Peter Pen will be aghast and attack this but here goes.

There are rumblings within parts of Racing NSW system over the attack on ABC and this is from someone who I knows a bit. There are some trainers, owners and jockeys who felt that Racing NSW should have swallowed it’s pride and been more conciliatory and try to reassure the non racing public.

 The fact that they could not get prominent NSW trainers, jockeys and owners to support their statement seems interesting. The racing media had quoted David Hayes, but he is from Victoria. His quotes supporting Racing NSW stand on ABC seems to indicate that some people in Sydney don’t want to get quoted especially the prominent trainers.

The other issue that is raising concerns were the crowd figures after the Everest. They were higher than normal but was it worth the investment in prizemoney etc The sponsors despite the publicity has not materialised to a great extent and the Bondi barrier draw scheduled on the beach was cancelled with no viable reason given.

The question asked by some local industry participants is that with the silly season starting, Canterbury races on Friday night has been a boon but will it continue. They had a great figure on the weekend but any ongoing disputes might affect it. We had one of our end of year functions at Canterbury last year and it was quite good for everyone. I do throughly recommend that if you wish to have a different type of Christmas shindig.

There is hope that V’landys can cross sell racing and league as a package for a new audience and sponsors in the future. This hope is from the racing industry but not sure regarding the league point of view.

Vlandys job is safe so Peter’s Pen need not worry. He just has a tougher job now than 12 months ago. He cannot increase prizemoney or invent new races without facing criticism over not spending on the welfare of horses. The drought has also increased feed costs in the country.

The drop in turnover is highly concerning to many but time will tell if it is a short dip or the start of a cycle or not.

As my friend said some regard Peter as a  saviour while others are not that complementary. But Peter’s job is safe .
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-20, 04:37 AM
Peter Pen will be aghast and attack this but here goes.


FFS Jeunes   :lol:

Bush Telegraph stuff.

I'm sure PVL is delighted that his job has been declared safe by an anonymous poster quoting an anonymous friend on social media.   emthup

I wasn't going to reply on your "content" but just one thing:

The drop in turnover is highly concerning to many but time will tell if it is a short dip or the start of a cycle or not.

The "drop in turnover" is a national thing. In fact we recently posted some stats that showed NSW punters are actually proportionally betting more on NSW races than they have historically on Victorian races.

Anyone who follows betting trends knows the drop in turnover is a national phenomena, and that the new point of consumption tax has meant that those getting rebates aren't on such a good wicket any more and their withdrawal is probably the reason for the drop.

http://www.racehorsetalk.com.au/racing-talk/melbourne-group-1-win-tote-comparison/

To twist that into a suggestion that the drop in turnover somehow threatens the job of the head of Racing NSW is in the flavour of your entire post, which I must say borders on the infantile.



Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Antitab# on 2019-Nov-20, 06:08 AM
The drop in turnover doesn’t just threaten PVL it threatens racing.

The funding model is flawed because it is based on turnover. It has worked until now as bookmakers and TAB have increased margin over the last ten years to cover the increased racefields and POC.

Greater margin means the bookies win the money quicker and there is less for the punters to recycle( re bet) and turnover decreases.

We have just reached the point where margins elasticity has been reached and every promotion that is reduced or price percentage that is increased harms turnover.

If margins increase much further bookies win faster, punters lose quicker and the bloke that loses his $50 or $100 will spend it elsewhere next Saturday as his enjoyment from punting is reduced because he can’t win.

The TAB is impacted as much as the corporates which is why they are closing down their rewards system.

The problem we have is this year for the first time racing bodies funding will reduce because turnover decreased.

My suspicion is their reaction will be to increase the fees to bookies to make up for this shortfall. The bookies will then pass this impost in to the punter in the form of worse prices and turnover will further decrease because of less recycling.

All of this is exasperated in NSW as a result of money wasted on the back of providing these stupid high prize money races so millionaires like Nev Morgan and battlers such as  the blue team and Waller slot holders  can get more money.

Don’t even start me on the ridiculous two year old race plus Newcastle and Wollongong.


We are at a turning point to ascertain whether racing follows the pattern of USA racing and harness that didnt react when obvious problems first rose to funding or whether self interest weakens and we sort the industry out.

My money is on the former.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-20, 06:25 AM
Peter’s Pen, I knew you would ignore certain aspects etc to push Peter’s point of view.

I never said Vlandys was in strife or his job under threat. You acknowledged it in one of your paragraphs then made your conclusion as usual by implying that his job is under threat and that was the “flavour” of my post.

His job is not under threat. My point was there are some people in the racing industry in NSW not happy with him. Big difference, Peter’s Pen.

I also noticed there was no comment from you why some of our more prominent industry figures did not come in support of Racing NSW’s stance against the ABC.

It is like politics, you are never going to get everyone to like you or agree with all your decisions. The art is how you sell your decisions.

The consumption tax is an interesting animal in itself. Short term it has boosted prizemoney, infrastructure etc. Long term,  I am not sure as people on this forum have debated both sides including drops in turnover.

Racing like many sports have lower attendance in the last 5-10 years. Winx and the Everest arrested the flow to some extent. The challenge for all Racing Bodies and yes, Peter’s Pen is how to attract the crowd on a regular basis without spending too much on marketing or music artists after the races.

Also I stand to be corrected but some of the farms of Racing NSW and Victoria which were supposed to host ex racehorses are still not operational. The upkeep of them for the racing bodies will be a few $ and we all know that if any media organisation did a story next year on it, there will be more scrutiny.


Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-20, 10:39 AM

The TAB is impacted as much as the corporates which is why they are closing down their rewards system.

The problem we have is this year for the first time racing bodies funding will reduce because turnover decreased.

My suspicion is their reaction will be to increase the fees to bookies to make up for this shortfall. The bookies will then pass this impost in to the punter in the form of worse prices and turnover will further decrease because of less recycling.

All of this is exasperated in NSW as a result of money wasted on the back of providing these stupid high prize money races so millionaires like Nev Morgan and battlers such as  the blue team and Waller slot holders  can get more money.


Can you tell me how The Everest is bad for turnover as you imply?

How much did Ladbrokes hold on The Everest this year? How much in the first year? How much 10 years ago - oh hang on they didn't have it then.

There has been a quantum increase in prizemoney on the ground in both NSW and Victoria with a lot more going back to the battling trainer with initiatives like paying down to 10th place. The Highways. Country Championship. The Kosciusko.  It doesn't just go to the millionaires as you imply. Cathleen Rode who won the Country Championship a few years back is no millionaire. What you say is parroting a false narrative.

In fact there has never been a better time (statistically) in our history to be a racehorse owner - at least in NSW and Victoria.

Australia is far more egalitarian than any other country. Of course there are rich racehorse owners - like Lloyd Williams, Godolphin. It has always been like that. What makes you think it was any different in the past? You would never have had owners like the owners of Redzel in the past.

You speak of margins for the bookmaker.

From where I sit the turnover in racing is dropping because the period of flagrant over promotion performed by Corporates in order to get business when they first entered the Australian market has come to end.

William Hill, Luxbet, Tom Waterhouse, bookmaker.com, Crown and a stack of others. All gone.

There was a golden period where it was pretty hard to lose as a punter. I can remember William Hill paying you a bonus bet if your horse finished in the first half of the field!! How can you possibly lose?

And now they are broke. Wonder how that happened?

Of course turnover was going to plateau. And then when the dust settled and we are left with two main Corproates plus TAB (probably still one to fall off the perch yet) the promotions are wound down. Subsequently the turnover falls.

Then along comes the South Australian government with the brainstorm of  a Point Of Consumption tax which other states follow suit. That exacerbates the problem.

But how has that got anything to do with The Everest, The Hunter or any other race?

This madness brought in by Corporate bookmakers was always going to end in tears. Don't you dare go blaming someone else!!
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-20, 10:45 AM
Peter’s Pen, I knew you would ignore certain aspects etc to push Peter’s point of view.

I never said Vlandys was in strife or his job under threat. You acknowledged it in one of your paragraphs then made your conclusion as usual by implying that his job is under threat and that was the “flavour” of my post.

His job is not under threat. My point was there are some people in the racing industry in NSW not happy with him. Big difference, Peter’s Pen.

I also noticed there was no comment from you why some of our more prominent industry figures did not come in support of Racing NSW’s stance against the ABC.

It is like politics, you are never going to get everyone to like you or agree with all your decisions. The art is how you sell your decisions.

The consumption tax is an interesting animal in itself. Short term it has boosted prizemoney, infrastructure etc. Long term,  I am not sure as people on this forum have debated both sides including drops in turnover.

Racing like many sports have lower attendance in the last 5-10 years. Winx and the Everest arrested the flow to some extent. The challenge for all Racing Bodies and yes, Peter’s Pen is how to attract the crowd on a regular basis without spending too much on marketing or music artists after the races.

Also I stand to be corrected but some of the farms of Racing NSW and Victoria which were supposed to host ex racehorses are still not operational. The upkeep of them for the racing bodies will be a few $ and we all know that if any media organisation did a story next year on it, there will be more scrutiny.

Mate can I respectfully point out that you are rambling. It is becoming difficult to read your posts.

Re-read what you are about to post before you hit the Post button and remove any wasted words. Makes for a better read   emthup
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: specialweek2 on 2019-Nov-20, 11:02 AM
Hatchet job or not at least it has made racing jurisdictions more accountable now evidenced by WA buying a farm to home and retrain former gallopers.That is a good thing.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-20, 11:26 AM
Mate can I respectfully point out that you are rambling. It is becoming difficult to read your posts.

Re-read what you are about to post before you hit the Post button and remove any wasted words. Makes for a better read     emthup  
The only person here who rambles is you.......Jeunes is a well-considered guy.

This is a subject that only become of interest to you a few days after it's airing.

I repeat every  time you post something  here you demonstrate how completely clueless you are.

When a horse is in the killing chute about to go into knock box at Meramist you seem to think there is someone you can call to "rescue" it.

Understand this .....both Victoria and RNSW do not pull horses off Peter Loffell's truck, even when made aware of some of the cargo, and once aboard and deposited in what ever condition they reach Caboolture in, they are friendless (as are all the horses there).....no rescue.....no nothing!
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-20, 12:06 PM
Hatchet job or not at least it has made racing jurisdictions more accountable now evidenced by WA buying a farm to home and retrain former gallopers.That is a good thing.

Don't disagree with that.

The actions initiated with 1% of the prizemoney in Vic and NSW going to horse welfare a year or two ago needed a follow up to make sure it is effective. The program certainly has initiated that.

This however does not excuse individuals or corporations from not reporting animal cruelty as soon as they become aware of it.

Funny how this point is never argued by the antagonists on this thread. Wonder why? It is a very serious allegation and you'd think anyone with any feelings for horse welfare would be enraged by this as I am. Journalists going for Walkley awards should not take precedence over the welfare of these beautiful, intelligent animals.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-20, 12:10 PM
The only person here who rambles is you.......Jeunes is a well-considered guy.

This is a subject that only become of interest to you a few days after it's airing.

I repeat every  time you post something  here you demonstrate how completely clueless you are.

When a horse is in the killing chute about to go into knock box at Meramist you seem to think there is someone you can call to "rescue" it.

Understand this .....both Victoria and RNSW do not pull horses off Peter Loffell's truck, even when made aware of some of the cargo, and once aboard and deposited in what ever condition they reach Caboolture in, they are friendless (as are all the horses there).....no rescue.....no nothing!

I have consistently said throughout this thread that I do not think horses should go to abattoirs. They are not an abattoir animal. There is a level of intelligence in horses that demands that they be euthanized humanely like dogs are.

If that practice was banned then everything you say above would be sorted.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Antitab# on 2019-Nov-20, 12:47 PM
Can you tell me how The Everest is bad for turnover as you imply?

How much did Ladbrokes hold on The Everest this year? How much in the first year? How much 10 years ago - oh hang on they didn't have it then.

There has been a quantum increase in prizemoney on the ground in both NSW and Victoria with a lot more going back to the battling trainer with initiatives like paying down to 10th place. The Highways. Country Championship. The Kosciusko.  It doesn't just go to the millionaires as you imply. Cathleen Rode who won the Country Championship a few years back is no millionaire. What you say is parroting a false narrative.

In fact there has never been a better time (statistically) in our history to be a racehorse owner - at least in NSW and Victoria.

Australia is far more egalitarian than any other country. Of course there are rich racehorse owners - like Lloyd Williams, Godolphin. It has always been like that. What makes you think it was any different in the past? You would never have had owners like the owners of Redzel in the past.

You speak of margins for the bookmaker.

From where I sit the turnover in racing is dropping because the period of flagrant over promotion performed by Corporates in order to get business when they first entered the Australian market has come to end.

William Hill, Luxbet, Tom Waterhouse, bookmaker.com, Crown and a stack of others. All gone.

There was a golden period where it was pretty hard to lose as a punter. I can remember William Hill paying you a bonus bet if your horse finished in the first half of the field!! How can you possibly lose?

And now they are broke. Wonder how that happened?

Of course turnover was going to plateau. And then when the dust settled and we are left with two main Corproates plus TAB (probably still one to fall off the perch yet) the promotions are wound down. Subsequently the turnover falls.

Then along comes the South Australian government with the brainstorm of  a Point Of Consumption tax which other states follow suit. That exacerbates the problem.

But how has that got anything to do with The Everest, The Hunter or any other race?

This madness brought in by Corporate bookmakers was always going to end in tears. Don't you dare go blaming someone else!!

PP

Everest isnt bad for turnover its great and a great product from a bookies point of view. However it isn't great for racing as it isnt yet providing enough turnover to pay for itself. SO the punter pays for it. The other new races are a collossal waste of money.

You are guessing  that the turnover issue is promotions but I know that it margin that is killing turnover. On a day a large corporate loses they may turn over 30% more than when they win because the punters have money to keep betting.

A 3% rise in margin which is what has happened across the board over the industry has seen in the last 18 months is killing turnover because the bookies are winning to quickly.

We are in a vicious spin, raise prizemoney, racing bodies charges bookies more to pay for it, so the bookies charge clients more to pay the increased fees.

This model has worked for many years, we have now reached the point where what the bookies are charging the punters in the form of bad pricing is killing recycling and thus turnover.

 Regardless of where we have come from, it is the next move on funding that will either push Racing down the path PVL led harness racing (by doing nothing) alternatively some initiative is shown and the model is tweaked. 

Lets revisit this in two years and see who is correct.


Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-20, 01:59 PM
PP

Everest isnt bad for turnover its great and a great product from a bookies point of view. However it isn't great for racing as it isnt yet providing enough turnover to pay for itself. SO the punter pays for it. The other new races are a collossal waste of money.

You are guessing  that the turnover issue is promotions but I know that it margin that is killing turnover. On a day a large corporate loses they may turn over 30% more than when they win because the punters have money to keep betting.

A 3% rise in margin which is what has happened across the board over the industry has seen in the last 18 months is killing turnover because the bookies are winning to quickly.

We are in a vicious spin, raise prizemoney, racing bodies charges bookies more to pay for it, so the bookies charge clients more to pay the increased fees.

This model has worked for many years, we have now reached the point where what the bookies are charging the punters in the form of bad pricing is killing recycling and thus turnover.

 Regardless of where we have come from, it is the next move on funding that will either push Racing down the path PVL led harness racing (by doing nothing) alternatively some initiative is shown and the model is tweaked. 

Lets revisit this in two years and see who is correct.

Yes. Agree. Let's see in two years. But it was always my contention that it couldn't last - if I looked back through the Corporate Bonuses thread I'm sure I'd find my quote - "enjoy it while it lasts" posted a couple of years ago.

The competition for market share amongst all the Corporates over the past few years has been furious and unsustainable, and is not unlike the ride share/taxi market at the moment. You see Uber posting horrific losses with their model of driving competition out of the market with cheap and uneconomical fares (equivalent of promotions), and it has worked to an extent with the demise of Taxify who were taken over by Bolt which no-one has heard of and who will wind down their Australian operations eventually. Either Uber will go broke and we will be left with traditional cabs + Ola or Ola or the cabs will go. But I digress......

Australian markets in general are duopolies plus fringe. Airlines, Supermarkets, Telcos, Pizza.

I see the wagering market doing the same. And when it settles down and those who are left have to start making a buck then the punters will get a smaller return as the margins rise.

But it just couldn't go on the way it was going. Blind Freddy could see that. Thus a wind back in turnover doesn't surprise at all. Nothing to do with prizemoney.

What is surprising is other people's surprise   :lol:

(and by the way you forget that the Everest pays for itself with the slot holder model - similar model to Magic Millions where NSW breeders stump up most of the prizemoney. Given the success of The Everest and MMs - anyone notice that it has quietly taken over from the Brisbane winter carnival as the flagship in Qld racing? - my prediction is that Victoria will soon follow suit in spite of all their belly aching. The MRC's change of attitude around the Everest suggests to me they might be thinking of something similar - totally my opinion).
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-20, 03:49 PM
Mate can I respectfully point out that you are rambling. It is becoming difficult to read your posts.

Re-read what you are about to post before you hit the Post button and remove any wasted words. Makes for a better read    emthup  

Does this mean Peter’s Pen that you will answer questions asked of you before you ask any questions?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-20, 08:17 PM
Does this mean Peter’s Pen that you will answer questions asked of you before you ask any questions?

No it means I am getting bored reading the same stuff re-hashed.

I find it much more interesting talking to fours about Mongolian coal.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-20, 08:57 PM
No it means I am getting bored reading the same stuff re-hashed.

I find it much more interesting talking to fours about Mongolian coal.

Just answer two questions and it does not have to be rehashed once you answer it.

Here are the questions again. Racing NSW released a statement advising they did not know racehorses were sent to Camden sales even though they were alerted to it previously and responded to it saying the horse was sold to owners not in NSW. So was the statement a lie?

Were Racing stewards not competent when they looked at the ABNs concerned and said one of them was in Victoria and not looking at the other one which was for a company linked to a NSW pet food maker.  This was after the general public alerted them to it.

Just answer those questions and we can forgive your reluctance to answer these questions.

C’mon PP, I need closure.    :lol:  
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-20, 09:42 PM

Racing NSW released a statement advising they did not know racehorses were sent to Camden sales even though they were alerted to it previously and responded to it saying the horse was sold to owners not in NSW. So was the statement a lie?


Which statement are you saying is a lie? The one where they said that they did not know racehorses were being sent to Camden or the one where they were responding saying the horse was sold to interstate owners.

Have you got the links to the statements so I can read them? Something not quite right in the way the question is asked. A bit of petitio principii here I suspect

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question


Were Racing stewards not competent when they looked at the ABNs concerned and said one of them was in Victoria and not looking at the other one which was for a company linked to a NSW pet food maker.  This was after the general public alerted them to it.


Someone may have made a mistake. When you ask "were racing stewards competent" I doubt if racing stewards (plural) looked at it. Surely that is an administrative job.

And if someone (singular) made a mistake with a company by the same name so what?

You say the general public alerted them to it. When did they alert them to it? I'm part of the "general public" and I cannot remember alerting Racing NSW to this. Who exactly are you talking about? Was it a specific person?

Are we getting into conspiracy theory territory again?

Here's my question.

Do you acknowledge that the ABC held on to the fact that they were aware of animal cruelty and did not report the matter to the authorities at the earliest possible time.

You haven't attempted to answer it up until now so I'm not expecting an answer..........
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-20, 09:52 PM
PP, please stop putting words in people’s mouths regarding if it is ok for the report to have  taken two years etc and cruelty aspects..

I have consistently asked for an inquiry so that the ABC, Racing bodies including your hero Vlandys can face questions.

The questions should include why it took so long to report the cruelty and questions for all Racing bodies regarding tracking etc.

Vlandys can answer the questions you have refused to answer previously ie did Racing NSW know about Camden Horse Sales considering they had a person write to them and they responded back so why the denials. Also how come they could not do a simple ABN search as alluded in some of the stories posted by others.

Below is a link that Arsenal posted which contradicts V’landys and Racing NSW knowledge of Camden sales.

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-24/racing-nsw-told-about-prohibited-thoroughbred-sales-2018-emails/11633132?pfmredir=sm

Everyone is accountable for this mess including the ABC and Racing Bodies so let’s find the truth. I think having everyone under the microscope and having people finally respond to questions under oath will give an inclination to the public that no one is above facing scrutiny.

This is again for you PP. Print it out and nail to your computer as this way, you can see my push for accountability for all has never wavered.

You don’t read things objectively if it contradicts Racing NSW’s stance. You jumped up and had a gotcha moment when you accused me of a Melbournian because you could not read a post correctly. That blew up in your face a bit as it showed your shallowness.

C’mon PP, lift your game. I can quote more and more of my posts calling for an inquiry.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-20, 09:56 PM
...and your answer to my question is.......more obfuscation.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-20, 10:09 PM
...and your answer to my question is.......more obfuscation.

Do you want me to spell it out for you Peter’s Pen.

The ABC should be facing questions why it took so long to report the cruelty. It should be part of any inquiry.

Racing NSW’s misleading statement based on ignorance and negligence should be subject to the same inquiry.

I am impartial and let’s go after the truth and if jail time comes out of it I can live with that.

At the end of the day, the report exposed cruelty at the abattoirs and negligence on part of the Racing bodies on horses sent to Abattoirs or lack of investigations. Non reporting is cruel too.

Don’t you want the real truth and have all cover ups exposed PP or “can’t you handle the truth”?

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-20, 10:11 PM
I think you are grossly overstating any role Racing NSW has in what was uncovered in the Four Corners program.

Even the program itself did not accuse Racing NSW of a lot of the stuff you are saying.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-20, 10:19 PM
Below was the follow up that was posted by quite a few posters so not sure why you are saying that I am accusing Racing NSW when there is a contradiction of their statements.

My view has never changed. Accountability for all involved.

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-24/racing-nsw-told-about-prohibited-thoroughbred-sales-2018-emails/11633132?pfmredir=sm
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Nov-21, 09:12 AM
Do you want me to spell it out for you Peter’s Pen.

The ABC should be facing questions why it took so long to report the cruelty. It should be part of any inquiry.

Racing NSW’s misleading statement based on ignorance and negligence should be subject to the same inquiry.

I am impartial and let’s go after the truth and if jail time comes out of it I can live with that.

At the end of the day, the report exposed cruelty at the abattoirs and negligence on part of the Racing bodies on horses sent to Abattoirs or lack of investigations. Non reporting is cruel too.

Don’t you want the real truth and have all cover ups exposed PP or “can’t you handle the truth”?

I must say it’s finally good to hear that from someone🍾.....unless I missed it previously, which is possible
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Arsenal on 2019-Nov-21, 10:50 PM
Haven't seen anything from RNSW on the Hardwicke Stud expose sending unwanted stock to the knackery you would think they've checked the story out and if substantiated apply the rules.

Giddy Up :beer:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-22, 09:54 AM
Haven't seen anything from RNSW on the Hardwicke Stud expose sending unwanted stock to the knackery you would think they've checked the story out and if substantiated apply the rules.

Giddy Up :beer:

Hardwicke Stud denied "sending unwanted stock to the knackery" a few weeks ago

Drought forced Hardwicke Stud to give their horses away

The Hardwicke Stud says the drought has hit their business so hard they've been forced to give away their horses.

That led to them getting caught up in an ABC investigation into the slaughter of racehorses.

A representative of the Yass stud said they were devastated by the footage and the fact their horses ended up getting killed in a Queensland abattoir.

They denied sending their horses there. Instead it was ones they'd been forced to give away.

An ABC 7.30 report claimed thousands of racehorses were being slaughtered every year for pet and human food.

It's against Racing NSW and Canberra Racing's rules for any horse to be sent to an abattoir or knackery.

The racing industry have said less than one per cent of the 8500 horses that retire every year end up being slaughtered.

Hardwicke Stud was one of a number of studs named in the report whose horses had been killed at the Queensland abattoir.

"We're caught in the middle of a drought," the Hardwicke representative said.

"Basically the market for the middle and lower end of the market for thoroughbreds collapsed last year, and feed prices doubled.

"For about three or four months we kept on feeding them and tried to find as many homes as possible.

"At the end we were giving them away and unfortunately some of them found their way to the abattoir.

"Because of the drought and other circumstances we got out of breeding horses.

"Our options were give them away or destroy them on the place. Neither of them are particularly pleasant choices."

They said older horses could survive tougher conditions, but young horses simply died.

It forced them to give away yearlings worth up to $10,000, ruining their business in the process.

To then see their horses treated the way they were on the report compounded their misery.

"Financially it was disastrous for us. These are the consequences of a drought," they said.

"We have been feeling terrible about this even before we knew they'd gone to an abattoir. It was devastating."

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6446224/drought-forced-hardwicke-stud-to-give-their-horses-away/

Of course we live in the Age Of Social Media where someone can deny something and the trolls will still just propagate fake news.

Drought affects horse studs as much as it affects other areas of farming.

Of course if you are a rich little ABC reporter living on the North Shore of Sydney who is after a Walkley award the drought is just some material you can use on your next Climate Change story.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-22, 10:00 AM
I must say it’s finally good to hear that from someone🍾.....unless I missed it previously, which is possible

It was like extracting a tooth!!
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-22, 10:19 AM
Below was the follow up that was posted by quite a few posters so not sure why you are saying that I am accusing Racing NSW when there is a contradiction of their statements.

My view has never changed. Accountability for all involved.

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-24/racing-nsw-told-about-prohibited-thoroughbred-sales-2018-emails/11633132?pfmredir=sm

That is real picky that is.

And can I point out the obvious exaggeration

Note the use of the plural - thoroughbreds

There are growing calls for a royal commission into the racing industry after the ABC revealed emails proving Racing NSW was told more than a year ago about the unauthorised sale of thoroughbreds for slaughter at a livestock auction in Camden, NSW.

Then we go to singular

But former trainer Sandra Jorgensen said she reported to Racing NSW in mid-2018 the sale of a branded, one-eyed filly at Camden to a business run by a killbuyer

The subsequent calls for a Royal Commission based on this single event are laughable.

It is a horrible story. And the person at the abattoir who wouldn't sell the filly back is deserving of some form of punishment.

But the over-reach is just out of all proportion. It is one case.

When compared to "God knows how many" extra horses suffered because of the inaction of the ABC, it is trivial.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-22, 11:03 AM
I don't think there could be anyone who could look any sillier on this topic other than you PPP7.

Up until page 14 on this thread you are talking about only 9 NSW thoroughbreds found at Meramist.

Then you produce a statement from Hardwicke Stud (NSW) that shows that's where all their unwanted stock ended up.......yearlings too! ......are you really trying to support your argument here  :what:

The only thing anyone could take from the fact that there was a penful of Hardwicke stock at Meramist together is that they had been given away together..... to a kill buyer.

Please note Hardwicke Stud "was among a number of studs named in the report"

I hope you also noted the part about the market for the middle and lower thoroughbreds collapsing .......just more evidence about way too many thoroughbreds being produced.
This is the huge problem for the racing industry........like the 7.30 report said "industrial scale"

Please don't make me repeat the horses names again that went through Camden.......nothing singular about it.

I'm fully aware of just how devastating the drought is .......so no lectures on that!
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Nov-22, 11:25 AM
In excess of 100 horses going through the Echuca sales today. Probably heading to the doggers.

Where’s the outrage with that?
Will the ABC stay silent?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-22, 11:56 AM
It's a horse sale Wily.......nothing outrageous about that .......is there?

I only counted 93 so I'm glad you are not my accountant   :lol:

5 thoroughbreds......all mares and a couple of standardbreds.

Buyers aren't named but the price will generally give you an idea where they've gone.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Nov-22, 12:22 PM
It's a horse sale Wily.......nothing outrageous about that .......is there?

Well, given they're going to the doggers I would suggest there is a story there but wether that story has enough for the outrage mob........................im not sure :chin:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-22, 01:08 PM
Well, given they're going to the doggers I would suggest there is a story there but wether that story has enough for the outrage mob........................im not sure :chin:

There will be no "feigned outrage" because it doesn't give them anything to bag Racing NSW about - although I'm sure they'll try and try and twist it that way.

On the actual program the head of Harness Racing NSW was really caught out about promises made regarding standard bred retirements.

But has Jeunes or nemesis even mentioned that part? Of course not. Not once. The program to them presents an opportunity to feign outrage to get at their enemy. They couldn't give a stuff about horse welfare. Neither can the ABC.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-22, 01:13 PM
I don't think there could be anyone who could look any sillier on this topic other than you PPP7.

Up until page 14 on this thread you are talking about only 9 NSW thoroughbreds found at Meramist.

Then you produce a statement from Hardwicke Stud (NSW) that shows that's where all their unwanted stock ended up.......yearlings too! ......are you really trying to support your argument here  :what:

The only thing anyone could take from the fact that there was a penful of Hardwicke stock at Meramist together is that they had been given away together..... to a kill buyer.

Please note Hardwicke Stud "was among a number of studs named in the report"

I hope you also noted the part about the market for the middle and lower thoroughbreds collapsing .......just more evidence about way too many thoroughbreds being produced.
This is the huge problem for the racing industry........like the 7.30 report said "industrial scale"

Please don't make me repeat the horses names again that went through Camden.......nothing singular about it.

I'm fully aware of just how devastating the drought is .......so no lectures on that!

There is only two P's in PP7.

Twisting the facts yet again I see.

There are so many holes in your post I couldn't be bothered. You have been discredited to the point one can only assume anything you post on this subject is complete and utter bullshit - driven by blind hatred of one man.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-22, 01:38 PM
That is real picky that is.

And can I point out the obvious exaggeration

Note the use of the plural - thoroughbreds

There are growing calls for a royal commission into the racing industry after the ABC revealed emails proving Racing NSW was told more than a year ago about the unauthorised sale of thoroughbreds for slaughter at a livestock auction in Camden, NSW.

Then we go to singular

But former trainer Sandra Jorgensen said she reported to Racing NSW in mid-2018 the sale of a branded, one-eyed filly at Camden to a business run by a killbuyer

The subsequent calls for a Royal Commission based on this single event are laughable.

It is a horrible story. And the person at the abattoir who wouldn't sell the filly back is deserving of some form of punishment.

But the over-reach is just out of all proportion. It is one case.

When compared to "God knows how many" extra horses suffered because of the inaction of the ABC, it is trivial.
I'm happy to rest my case if you desist in posting here.....this is a subject you have not thought about .......ever!



For the most prolific poster on a subject about horse slaughter you don't even know the difference between an abattoir and a knackery.

Save your outrage for an industry that allows it's yearlings, broodmares and slow stock to end up in that hell hole called Meramist (abattoir)
Doesn't even meet the first regulation about horse slaughter (horses witnessing the killing)....to my understanding.

Burn's Pet Foods (knackery) are under no obligation to sell back the filly......she shouldn't have been there in the first place......what punishment does PPP7 have in mind?..... you don't have to answer!.......nor thank me for a bit of education.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-22, 01:53 PM
......what punishment does PPP7 have in mind?..... you don't have to answer!.......nor thank me for a bit of education.

Well thank the Lord F. Christ for that.

That froth coming out of your mouth must be clouding the screen - you are still putting three P's in my name.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-22, 02:42 PM
Well thank the Lord F. Christ for that.

That froth coming out of your mouth must be clouding the screen - you are still putting three P's in my name.
You've got nothing ....have you? PPP7

If you modify your abattoir \ knackery blunder it will just be our secret.

On the basis I don't contribute to your NSW Provincial tips because I don't know anything about it......maybe let that apply to yourself here.

If you start a thread about the level of gloss P V'Landys' likes on his boots, I promise I will take your word for it.  :bye:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-22, 05:00 PM
You've got nothing ....have you? PPP7

If you modify your abattoir \ knackery blunder it will just be our secret.

On the basis I don't contribute to your NSW Provincial tips because I don't know anything about it......maybe let that apply to yourself here.

If you start a thread about the level of gloss P V'Landys' likes on his boots, I promise I will take your word for it.  :bye:

OK. Replace this sentence

It is a horrible story. And the person at the abattoir who wouldn't sell the filly back is deserving of some form of punishment.

With this

It is a horrible story. And the person at the abattoir knackery who wouldn't sell the filly back is deserving of some form of punishment.

Is that really the best you can do?

Geez I must be way ahead in this argument if you are trawling through the garbage to get at me - not dissimilar to your agreeing for a call for a Royal Commission over a single incident.

Quit while you are only a little bit behind.........


Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-22, 05:54 PM
There will be no "feigned outrage" because it doesn't give them anything to bag Racing NSW about - although I'm sure they'll try and try and twist it that way.

On the actual program the head of Harness Racing NSW was really caught out about promises made regarding standard bred retirements.

But has Jeunes or nemesis even mentioned that part? Of course not. Not once. The program to them presents an opportunity to feign outrage to get at their enemy. They couldn't give a stuff about horse welfare. Neither can the ABC.

Here we go again from Peter’s Pen.

How about answering a simple question was Racing NSW lying when they said they did not know about Camden sales selling thoroughbreds when they already replied to an email regarding this issue.

C’mon Peter’s Pen, please answer it.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Nov-22, 08:03 PM
Jeunes, what are your thoughts on today’s Echuca thoroughbred sales?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-22, 08:17 PM
Jeunes, what are your thoughts on today’s Echuca thoroughbred sales?

Action should be taken if they are being sold to an abattoir.

Racing bodies cannot sit by and continue to close it’s eyes to this issue. The ABC report brought it to the forefront and unfortunately lack of attention will mean in a few months, any follow up reports from any media will hit the industry hard again.

When we have people like Peter’s Pen refusing to acknowledge misleading statements by Racing NSW but claims to hate cruelty, shows why animal activists have a field day.

That is the hypocrisy of racing as we have too many people not acknowledging mistakes which makes it easier for those opposing Racing.

Will there be a common approach by Racing bodies in handling this issue. Chances are no as we have too many vested interests.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-22, 08:19 PM
WOD, do you think Racing NSW misled in it’s statement that it knew nothing about the Camden Sales when it previously sent an email acknowledging the racehorse that was sold there?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Nov-22, 08:40 PM
I wouldn’t know mate but what I do know is that of all the poor horses being traded through knackerys etc, bugger all are thoroughbreds but there’s no story in that
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-22, 08:49 PM
I wouldn’t know mate but what I do know is that of all the poor horses being traded through knackerys etc, bugger all are thoroughbreds but there’s no story in that

Exactly.

Anyone genuinely concerned about horses would be address this.

Standardbreds were covered in the story but those with an obsession about Racing NSW have turned it into a Peter V'Landy's pile on and the central message that horse lovers want to get across is lost in the politics.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-22, 08:54 PM
Here we go again from Peter’s Pen.

How about answering a simple question was Racing NSW lying when they said they did not know about Camden sales selling thoroughbreds when they already replied to an email regarding this issue.

C’mon Peter’s Pen, please answer it.

Still waiting.... :whistle: :whistle:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-22, 09:09 PM
I answered it already

That is real picky that is.

And can I point out the obvious exaggeration

Note the use of the plural - thoroughbreds

There are growing calls for a royal commission into the racing industry after the ABC revealed emails proving Racing NSW was told more than a year ago about the unauthorised sale of thoroughbreds for slaughter at a livestock auction in Camden, NSW.

Then we go to singular

But former trainer Sandra Jorgensen said she reported to Racing NSW in mid-2018 the sale of a branded, one-eyed filly at Camden to a business run by a killbuyer

The subsequent calls for a Royal Commission based on this single event are laughable.

It is a horrible story. And the person at the abattoir who wouldn't sell the filly back is deserving of some form of punishment.

But the over-reach is just out of all proportion. It is one case.

When compared to "God knows how many" extra horses suffered because of the inaction of the ABC, it is trivial.

Trivial nitpicking.

No-one was lying. There was a mix up with the name of two companies who had the same name. Totally plausible.

And certainly not worth paying lawyers hundreds of thousands of dollars for a Royal Commission over one horse.

Your contention that there needs to be some sort of reparations over a single horse is bordering on the absurd.

Perhaps you, like Mehreen Faruqi in that link you posted, think we should have an RC every time someone is accused of lying.

Retrospectively perhaps we should have an RC into Julia Gillard telling us there would be no Carbon Tax on a government she would lead.

Ridiculous suggestion.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-23, 05:40 AM
I answered it already

Trivial nitpicking.

No-one was lying. There was a mix up with the name of two companies who had the same name. Totally plausible.

And certainly not worth paying lawyers hundreds of thousands of dollars for a Royal Commission over one horse.

Your contention that there needs to be some sort of reparations over a single horse is bordering on the absurd.

Perhaps you, like Mehreen Faruqi in that link you posted, think we should have an RC every time someone is accused of lying.

Retrospectively perhaps we should have an RC into Julia Gillard telling us there would be no Carbon Tax on a government she would lead.

Ridiculous suggestion.

Again not dealing with the issue. Camden sales were advised but not looked into. It was an omission of fact to paint Racing NSW in the best light possible.

Yes, let’s have an inquiry into Julia if you want to bring politics into it. Maybe we should also do an inquiry into the “ children overboard” saga too.

I think you maybe the type who is still annoyed about the RC into Banking industry and also the investigations into the church. I fervently hope not as you seem a decent person even though you seem to like Peter too much.   :lol:

Let’s get an inquiry into the horses etc. Act on any recommendations and go back to punting. This way we can stand up for our sport. Greyhound racing had severe pain before it could move on. Transparency is the key.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: napes on 2019-Nov-23, 10:39 AM
Yeah great way to create transparency, pay a million lawyers a shitload of money!!

Spend millions on arguing about horses and then adjourn for a steak lunch.

How about spending some money on educating the dribblers where their food comes from.

Do the maths on the amount of carbon produced by keeping thousands of horses alive for 20+ years.

Educate people on the food chain. Are their dogs and cats vegan?

Why hasn't the ABC done an expose on hunting or fishing?

Why is it ok to cull feral horses from the air? Why are they less worthy of your outrage, because they have never been named?

Lets point out the blatant hypocrisy of these people attacking racing instead of falling over and giving up. 

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-23, 11:55 AM
You can educate away Napes.

What have we learned so far......we know that the beef, lamb, pork and racing industries send their yearlings to slaughter......safe to call them meat industries.
We also know that breeding stock and unwanted stock from all of the above go to slaughter as well......no difference.

The obvious problem here that only the CEO's of both NSW and Victoria racing industry use words like " there is a home for every horse" and " we need to find a home for"
Why do they speak in this language?........well the answer is obvious!

That's the lack of transparency that's been exposed.

A Racing Royal Commission  would end up like most RC's........ expensive and accomplish very little.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Nov-23, 06:45 PM
No Nem, they speak in those all compassing phrases as it’s 2019 and they have to to cover their arses from the narks which have taken over our society.
It’s the era of the “gotcha” moment and this is a result of it

It’s time for people to stand their ground and tell these holier than thou  :censored:  to ferk off
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-24, 07:58 AM

A Racing Royal Commission  would end up like most RC's........ expensive and accomplish very little.

Well we agree on something!!

From that Jeunes link looks like the Senator has other ideas

NSW Senator Mehreen Faruqi has told the ABC the emails are "absolutely damning".

"The industry is completely unaccountable and not transparent at all," Senator Faruqi said.

"The self-regulation of the industry has to end today.

"Now is the time to dig deeper in this industry, now is the time to set up a royal commission, to expose this industry and see what it actually says and what it actually does are two different things."

The industry is "completely unaccountable" and "not transparent at all"???

Which industry is she talking about? Politics??

You'd think someone with a Civil Engineering degree with a Masters in Engineering Science would think more like an engineer instead of some woke virtue signaller advocating a big pay day yet again for lawyers.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-24, 08:02 AM
Mind you if they ever had a Royal Commission there is only really one choice for Commissioner.

This lady moves in the right circles and could use her partner as unofficial counsel for matters she might need to be abreast of.

And I know she would get unanimous support from all those who contribute to this forum   emthup

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQgV6lG8t6THk9hVFp4ixo-f7UVX03BFN53RY0MnPTza6BVvyEt&s)
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-29, 06:43 AM
The power of social media. It can never be underrated.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/couple-charged-with-animal-cruelty-after-footage-caught-them-dragging-horse/news-story/cbda889ec2edb60f18f93389fb494d0c
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Nov-29, 07:59 AM
The power of social media. It can never be underrated.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/couple-charged-with-animal-cruelty-after-footage-caught-them-dragging-horse/news-story/cbda889ec2edb60f18f93389fb494d0c

Stand by for someone to blame PV, racing nsw and us horse owners for that. We’re all evil
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2019-Nov-29, 04:23 PM
So can anyone here tell me the answer to this question..?
What percentage of the 14000 odd thoroughbreds born every year make it to age 15?
All you apologists never wanna go near that one.
Just checking how blinkered your views really are....
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-29, 04:34 PM
Stand by for someone to blame PV, racing nsw and us horse owners for that. We’re all evil

Why?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Nov-30, 07:19 AM
So can anyone here tell me the answer to this question..?
What percentage of the 14000 odd thoroughbreds born every year make it to age 15?
All you apologists never wanna go near that one.
Just checking how blinkered your views really are....

Shogie, do you know the answer?
I don’t
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: napes on 2019-Dec-02, 09:10 AM
Can anyone tell me how many dogs, cats, cows, sheep, pigs, non-thoroughbred horses or any other animal get to 15?

No apologies here!

Do any of the hypocrites have the answer to these and other irrelevant questions?

At least we don't have a one eyed blinker.  :chin:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Dec-03, 10:24 AM
I just came across this. It may have been posted already

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMkDvU3Pm5k&feature=share

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: napes on 2019-Dec-03, 05:26 PM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7733227/RSPCA-admits-sends-NSW-thoroughbreds-slaughterhouses-shocking-claims-racing-cruelty.html

The greatest of all the hypocrites the RSPCA comes clean with its procedures.

Silence from the ABC. Reported by the UK Daily Mail.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Dec-03, 06:26 PM
Thanks napes.......faking turds🤮

The RSPCA has admitted for the first time it sends broken-down racehorses to slaughterhouses in New South Wales where their carcasses are processed into pet food.

The animal welfare body has been one of the strongest critics of thoroughbreds being sent to abattoirs and knackeries once they are retired from the racing industry.

RSPCA New South Wales told Daily Mail Australia it sometimes sent stock including thoroughbreds for commercial slaughter if no other option was available.

'On occasion the only mechanism for disposing of very diseased, unwell or aged stock animals is via abattoir or knackery facilities,' a spokeswoman said.

'RSPCA NSW has in the past sent stock to abattoir, and continues to do so in a variety of circumstances.'

One of the knackeries RSPCA NSW has used in the past is Burns Pet Foods in Sydney which featured in a recent ABC expose alleging thoroughbreds were being slaughtered on an industrial scale.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Dec-03, 06:30 PM
Oops, of course.what a weak as puss organisation   :lol:   :lol:


It took RSPCA NSW almost a month to respond to questions about whether it ever sent animals - particularly thoroughbreds - to knackeries.

A statement was eventually provided with input from the RSPCA inspectorate, which investigates allegations of animal mistreatment, and the body's own legal counsel.

A spokeswoman stressed she could speak on behalf of only RSPCA NSW and not the other state branches of the organisation which all operate independently.

While confirming it sometimes disposed of stock through abattoirs and knackeries RSPCA NSW did not say how often it did so.

Asked to clarify if 'stock' included thoroughbreds, RSPCA NSW cited the Department of Primary Industries' use of the word.

'RSPCA NSW uses the DPI definition of stock - so that includes horses of all descriptions, including thoroughbreds,' it said.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Dec-03, 08:50 PM
I will say it again, an open inquiry into the roles of ABC, the Racing bodies and RSPCA in this sorry saga.

Transparency and action, then we can all move on.  I still want to get without feeling like a leper with some of the non racing folk.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Dec-03, 10:16 PM
I will say it again, an open inquiry into the roles of ABC, the Racing bodies and RSPCA in this sorry saga.

Transparency and action, then we can all move on.  I still want to get without feeling like a leper with some of the non racing folk.

Could we be comfortable that there would be transparency?

After the snow job the dogs copped I get a bit uneasy that you'd end up with another screw effort.  :unsu

Anyway this little bit jumped out at me when scanning over the story on those hypocritics the RSPCA

Hidden cameras showed that in just 22 days, more than 300 racehorses - winners of a combined $5million in prize money - were killed in the abattoir.

Not sure those figures match what has been said elsewhere nor how did the know about the prizemoney? Did the have every brand? From my take they were lucky to name a handful yet here we are speaking with certainty of the amount of money they all won.  :shrug:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Dec-03, 11:58 PM
Could we be comfortable that there would be transparency?

After the snow job the dogs copped I get a bit uneasy that you'd end up with another screw effort.  :unsu

Anyway this little bit jumped out at me when scanning over the story on those hypocritics the RSPCA

Hidden cameras showed that in just 22 days, more than 300 racehorses - winners of a combined $5million in prize money - were killed in the abattoir.

Not sure those figures match what has been said elsewhere nor how did the know about the prizemoney? Did the have every brand? From my take they were lucky to name a handful yet here we are speaking with certainty of the amount of money they all won.  :shrug:

Funny how the "sentence parsing politically correct", like at the ABC, don't pick up on their own stuff.

winners of a combined $5million in prize money

So they won an exact $5 million did they?

The accuracy of the figure is not the point.

It is the sloppiness in the reporting that is the point.

How hard would it have been to come up with an accurate figure? Or even report it as "just under $5 million" or the like.

And as we have shown there is sloppiness all throughout the report, as well as evil actions in hiding information that could have saved horses from further suffering just so they could run the report two days before The Everest.

I would urge Racing NSW that if the ABC do not provide a satisfactory answer to this point in their complaint:

It is disappointing that neither the ABC nor other parties involved in the two-year period of putting the program together apparently saw fit to report to authorities, when they became aware of the cruelty. While not within the ambit of this complaint, it is a matter for the ABC, as a public agency with integrity responsibilities, to consider. If the ABC has any evidence of abuse of thoroughbreds within the jurisdiction of Racing NSW, we would expect that such evidence be brought to Racing NSW’s attention as soon as possible.

that they refer the matter to the NSW Police for investigation in relation to the NSW Cruelty To Animals Act 1979, and lay charges if appropriate.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Dec-04, 09:06 AM
Could we be comfortable that there would be transparency?

After the snow job the dogs copped I get a bit uneasy that you'd end up with another screw effort.  :unsu

Anyway this little bit jumped out at me when scanning over the story on those hypocritics the RSPCA

Hidden cameras showed that in just 22 days, more than 300 racehorses - winners of a combined $5million in prize money - were killed in the abattoir.

Not sure those figures match what has been said elsewhere nor how did the know about the prizemoney? Did the have every brand? From my take they were lucky to name a handful yet here we are speaking with certainty of the amount of money they all won.  :shrug:
6 weeks on Gintara  and you trot out this?

If you had taken time out to "sit through" the 7.30 report you would have noticed at the end was a list of racehorses put through Meramist........a long list!

I would guarantee that if you put the  names through Racing Australia......$5 million would be on the mark.......no-one is going to be that sloppy.

If some on here had put the time they've spent slagging off at the ABC into checking the facts we would all be better off!

A couple of names I was familiar with ......War Ends and Startreusse........I get $504,063.......the doubters can do the rest!
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: napes on 2019-Dec-04, 09:58 AM
What is the relevance to the amount of money they won?

Do the hypocrites now suggest that only horses that win prizemoney deserve protection?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Dec-05, 09:02 AM
What is the relevance to the amount of money they won?



Napes my point was they struggled to come up with names yet the report above can categorically state 'over 300' horses in 22 days.

I'm sure we've all seen footage of trucks being unloaded at sale yards or abattoir, considering they would need the brands and this was convert surveillance - think groups of animals herded down a race and footage from a distance, how can they be sure?

They simply can't  :bulb:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: napes on 2019-Dec-05, 09:57 AM
Agreed Gintara, they can't.

But the more we argue about the irrelevant facts of name, money won etc, the more we get away from the fact animals are killed for human and pet consumption every single day.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Dec-05, 11:30 AM


from the fact animals are killed for human and pet consumption every single day.


I fail to see what the problem is with that
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Dec-05, 03:25 PM

I fail to see what the problem is with that

  emthup  As long as they are treated ethically I can't see the issue.

I don't want to eat 'Winx' but I'm not going to judge those who do.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: napes on 2019-Dec-05, 03:59 PM

I fail to see what the problem is with that

I don't have a problem with it either. As I don't have a problem with anyone eating horse, cat, dog or guinea pig. Not to my palate, but to each their own.

As Gintara says treat them ethically and move on.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Dec-05, 05:42 PM
I think the taste depends on how it is cooked too.  If you are going to eat something different, do you cook it almost plain like to see what it tastes like or do you add spices / herbs to mask the taste if you are squeamish?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Dec-05, 07:36 PM
The devastating drought and backlash from an ABC 7.30 report will culminate in excess horses being euthanised after Friday's equine auction in Echuca.

The biggest horse saleyard in Australia is anticipating more than 200 horses of all breeds to be up for sale on Friday, with truckloads arriving from Queensland and NSW due to the drought and horses having no water to live off.

Less than 10 per cent of the horses for sale are expected to be thoroughbreds, with the majority quarter horses, paint horses and Clydesdales.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/racing/drought-and-welfare-backlash-to-culminate-in-mass-horse-euthanisation-20191205-p53h69.html
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Dec-06, 10:16 AM
No story there Wily, Caro hyphen knows she's lose public opinion if she started on farmers.

It's the fact of life that when times are tough, livestock gets sent off to the sales to recoup some outlay whilst reducing your overheads.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Dec-06, 10:52 AM
Looking at the sale mate its staggering the number of quarterhorses and clydesdales that are there.

yep, no milage in attacking those breeders :chin:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Arsenal on 2019-Dec-31, 05:02 PM
Racing NSW response to my email on Hardwicke Stud received yesterday:-

"At the time of the interview Racing NSW was not aware of any of the allegations in respect to Hardwicke Stud.
 
Racing NSW has requested the ABC provide details and vision of NSW horses they allege were sent to Meramist. At this point in time that information has not been provided.
 
Our investigations are ongoing.
 
Yours Sincerely,

Marc Van Gestel
General Manager – Integrity
Chairman of Stewards
Racing NSW
Level 7, 51 Druitt Street, Sydney NSW 2000
Phone: 02 9551 7546 Mobile: 0412 933941 Fax: 02 9551 7551
Website: www.racingnsw.com.au"

I'll send them the link to the  Canberra Times story posted by PP7 as it should assist the investigation.


Giddy Up :beer:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Dec-31, 05:41 PM
Thanks Arsenal.

I wonder if they were the same stewards who could not do a proper ABN search?

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Arsenal on 2020-Jan-21, 08:06 PM
Conclusion Of Horse Welfare Inquiries

Please be advised of the following welfare inquiries that have recently been completed by Racing NSW Stewards.

1. Ballesteros – Injury and subsequent euthanasia (Stewards report here)

On Tuesday 14 January 2020, Racing NSW Stewards conducted an inquiry into the circumstances surrounding an injury sustained by Ballesteros trained by licensed trainer Mr Paul Robbins, which resulted in the horse being euthanaised on 19 October 2019. The following charges and penalties were issued.

Trainer Mr Paul Robbins - pleaded guilty to a charge under AR231(1)(b)(iii) for failing to provided veterinary treatment to the horse where such treatment is necessary during the period 9 October 2019 to 19 October 2019. Mr Robbins was disqualified for a period of 12 months (18 months reduced to 12 months for guilty plea, co-operation with Stewards and good record)

Foreperson Mrs Susan Robbins pleaded guilty to a charge under AR227(b) for being a party to Mr Robbins breaching AR231(1)(b)(iii) for failing to provided veterinary treatment to the horse where such treatment is necessary during the period 9 October 2019 to 19 October 2019. Mrs Robbins was disqualified for a period of 12 months (12 months reduced to 8 months for guilty plea, co-operation with Stewards and good record)

Both Mr and Mrs Robbins have lodged appeals to the Racing NSW Appeal Panel.

2. Snippet Assured – Breach of LR114(5)(e) (Stewards Report here)

On Wednesday 15 January 2020, Racing NSW Stewards conducted an inquiry into a report that the racehorse Snippet Assured had been disposed of at a knackery. The following charges and penalties were issued.

Trainer Mr Ian Symons – pleaded guilty to a charge under LR114(5)(e) in that once a decision was made to retire the racehorse Snippet Assured, he did during the month of August 2018, directly transport Snippet Assured to a knackery to be disposed of. Mr Symons was disqualified for a period of 2 years reduced to 18 months for his guilty plea.

Stablehand Ms Rachel Wotzlaw – pleaded guilty to a charge of improper conduct under AR228(b) in that she did deliberately and improperly provide information on 8th October 2018 to lessees of the racehorse Snippet Assured via Facebook Messenger, that Snippet Assured had been rehomed in retirement when she knew at that time that Snippet Assured had been delivered to a knackery to be disposed of. Ms Wotzlaw was disqualified for a period of 6 months reduced to 4 months for her guilty plea.

3. Sandaney – Catastrophic Injury and subsequent euthanasia (Stewards report here)

Racing NSW Stewards on 20 January 2020 conducted an inquiry into the collapse and catastrophic injury sustained by Sandaney at Warwick Farm trackwork on 30 December 2019, that resulted in the gelding being euthanaised on that morning.

Stablehand Rider Mr Patrick Shanahan – pleaded guilty to a charge under AR231(1)(a) in that he committed an act of cruelty on the morning of 30 December 2019 in that he rode Sandaney in a manner that contributed in Sandaney collapsing and sustaining fractures to both foreleg sesamoids and subsequently being euthanaised. Mr Shanahan was disqualified for a period of 18 months reduced to 13-1/2 months for his guilty plea. In assessing penalty Stewards found his actions contributed to the injury being sustained by the gelding. Mr Shanahan was also fined the sum of $500 under AR132(1) for using a whip not approved by Racing Australia.

ENDS


Giddy Up :beer:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2020-Jan-22, 10:19 AM
What a shocking read about Sandaney......by Redoute's Choice from an Irish mare bred by The Aga Khan.....owned by Arrowfield.

Driven with an unapproved whip for 400 metres until the  2 yr old collapses, doesn't bear thinking about......all this just 7 days after entering Rick Worthington's stable.

Surely more to this especially after his yearling X-rays turned away any buyers.

13 1/2 months disqualification for only one player seems hardly adequate.

R.I.P. Sandaney.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2020-Jan-22, 03:52 PM
There's obviously more to that story  :chin:

Seems very light otherwise  :what:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Jan-22, 04:44 PM
An interesting question posed to me years ago when the greyhound saga was on was why does the racing industry in general allow people back after cruelty to animals in their care?

I could not answer that.

My question is something not just for Racing NSW but all Racing bodies is what stage do we disbar people for life. Aquanita is one example for Symonds but not anyone else.

Corruption or cruelty or abuse in some industries or vocations means you can never come back.

Also  did the RSPCA not charge these individuals? If not why? Maybe the Racing bodies in general needs to work in hand with them to protect the industry as these cases just give ammunition to people who detest horse racing. There are many people in the industry who love the horses and would never ever do that.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2020-Jan-22, 09:33 PM


Also  did the RSPCA not charge these individuals? If not why?

The cynic in me says that would mean work. These days they seem for more interested in headlines and donations than actually looking after animals  :dry:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Jan-22, 09:48 PM
What a shocking read about Sandaney......by Redoute's Choice from an Irish mare bred by The Aga Khan.....owned by Arrowfield.

Driven with an unapproved whip for 400 metres until the  2 yr old collapses, doesn't bear thinking about......all this just 7 days after entering Rick Worthington's stable.

Surely more to this especially after his yearling X-rays turned away any buyers.

13 1/2 months disqualification for only one player seems hardly adequate.

R.I.P. Sandaney.

Agree. It is hard to imagine a horse being ridden to death with a whip in this day and age on a public racecourse.

Well done on the other two charges.

Let's hope it all the horses identified in the program are sorted as well as some sort of deterrent   emthup

Would have been nice if the ABC would have co-operated but as we noted they obviously are more interested in Walkley Awards rather than horse welfare.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2020-Jan-23, 09:38 AM
I'm hard pressed to think of anything more cruel than this and there is plenty of cruelty in horse racing......and it does beg the question....where is the RSPCA and police here when animal cruelty is a criminal offence?

Disappointing to see it only reported in The Herald in the on-line version.

While RNSW deserve some credit for dealing with this quickly the fact that Sandaney was owned by Arrowfield shows how racing is too easily conflicted.

I'm not sure if Alan Jones went to study the great works of Pooh in 'une Galerie d'art' in Soho this year but one would hope  when he gets back to work he will get right on to this and seek some justice for Sandaney.

"Horses are like part of the family" he stated publicly only a couple of months ago.

Racing had better hope there is no footage of this in these days of information sharing.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Jan-23, 01:50 PM
More information on the steward's reports from Fairfax. I could not find any information in any News Corp articles but probably looked in the wrong area. The incident described of the death of the 2yo is pretty confronting when you consider what the poor animal was subject to as it seems more than "400 Metres"



Quirindi trainer disqualified from racing for taking horse to knackery

Chris Roots

By Chris Roots

 January 22, 2020 — 6.59pm


A Quirindi horse trainer has been disqualified for 18 months after being found guilty of taking a racehorse to a knackery.

Racing NSW stewards discovered the fate of seven-year-old Snippet Assured – which had run 20 times without a win – during an audit of Ian Symons' stable in December. Symons eventually admitted he had taken the horse to the knackery after its final start in August.

Racing NSW has disqualified five licencees on charges relating to horse welfare this week.

He was given a six-month discount on a two-year ban after pleading guilty to the charge and co-operating with stewards.

It was also found the stable had misled the owners of Snippet Assured, telling them the horse had been rehomed on October 8.

Stablehand Rachel Wotzlaw was given a four-month disqualification for providing the information on Facebook messenger, “when she knew at that time that Snippet Assured had been delivered to a knackery to be disposed of.”

Horse welfare was brought into the public arena when the ABC's 7.30 reported on the treatment of racehorses on October 17 last year. The report focussed on horses being killed at abattoirs and was broadcast only days before the running of Australia’s richest race, The Everest.

The Symons case was one of three horse welfare inquiries this week, which have seen five licensees disqualified from the sport.

Chief steward Marc Van Gestel said horse welfare had always been paramount to Racing NSW and Snippet Assured’s death was discovered in a routine stable audit.

“It is disappointing that we still find cases like these, but the procedures are in place to follow horses during their career and beyond,” Van Gestel said. “We have rules in place to deal with these cases and the penalties are severe for those breaching the rules.”

In an other case, Murwillumbah trainer Paul Robbins was disqualified for 12 months “for failing to provided veterinary treatment to a horse where such treatment [was] necessary” after Ballesteros had to euthanised on October 19.

Stewards found Robbins had not provided the necessary care after Ballesteros showed signs of soreness in the 10 days leading up to its death. The trainer plead guilty to the charge.

His foreman, Susan Robbins, was also found guilty and given an eight-month disqualification.

In the third case, Warwick Farm track rider Patrick Shanahan was disqualified for 13.5 months for committing an act of cruelty when he rode Sandaney in a manner that contributed to it collapsing and suffering a catastrophic injury, breaking both its front legs.

Shanahan was found not to have followed the instructions of trainer Rick Worthington to slowly work Sandaney on the polo fields on December 30. Instead he worked the horse on the polytrack at “faster than slow work” for two laps.

The distress of the horse was clear before it collapsed in front of trainers and Warwick Farm trackwork supervisor John McGarr, who all gave evidence during the inquiry.

Shanahan was found to have use a non-approved whip “unreasonably and/or excessively” in the final 400 metres of the unapproved work, which was deemed an act of cruelty. He was also fined $500 for using the unapproved whip.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2020-Jan-23, 06:20 PM

In the third case, Warwick Farm track rider Patrick Shanahan was disqualified for 13.5 months for committing an act of cruelty when he rode Sandaney in a manner that contributed to it collapsing and suffering a catastrophic injury, breaking both its front legs.

Shanahan was found not to have followed the instructions of trainer Rick Worthington to slowly work Sandaney on the polo fields on December 30. Instead he worked the horse on the polytrack at “faster than slow work” for two laps.

The distress of the horse was clear before it collapsed in front of trainers and Warwick Farm trackwork supervisor John McGarr, who all gave evidence during the inquiry.

Shanahan was found to have use a non-approved whip “unreasonably and/or excessively” in the final 400 metres of the unapproved work, which was deemed an act of cruelty. He was also fined $500 for using the unapproved whip.

Does anyone else read that and see more questions than answers?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Jan-23, 07:10 PM
Does anyone else read that and see more questions than answers?

When I originally read Arsenal’s stewards report, I thought he whipped the horse too much. But after Root’s article, it said he seemed to ride the 2yo around “faster than slow work”. I don’t know what that means in reality as it really leaves a lot to your imagination.

The question is will there be a focus on his suspension being adequate considering the current climate if certain other interests jump on the bandwagon.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2020-Jan-23, 08:14 PM
Jeunes , not sure if you have read the full steward's report for Sandaney on Racing NSW website.

https://www.racingnsw.com.au/wp-content/uploads/Sandaney-Stewards-Report.pdf

I agree with Gintara.......smells very dodgy.

It's interesting the stewards use the term 'humane euthanasia' because there was nothing humane leading up to his demise.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Jan-23, 08:35 PM
Jeunes , not sure if you have read the full steward's report for Sandaney on Racing NSW website.

https://www.racingnsw.com.au/wp-content/uploads/Sandaney-Stewards-Report.pdf

I agree with Gintara.......smells very dodgy.

It's interesting the stewards use the term 'humane euthanasia' because there was nothing humane leading up to his demise.

Thanks Nemesis. It is an interesting read. The fact this horse went around “faster than slow work” over 2 laps of 1700m is intriguing as well as the horse had injury issues in the past. Not sure what the level of experience of the track work rider is and why he disobeyed the instructions?

 Or are we trying to create a story of a tragic miscalculation of judgement?


Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Jan-30, 06:25 AM
Not a good look. I do hope there is some action taken.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/animals/fury-as-pictures-of-starving-and-dead-horses-on-queensland-farm-go-viral/news-story/02875d6ca1ea288dc7b4d935620d16c8
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Feb-05, 06:33 AM
An update on the dead horses in Toowoomba.

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-05/dead-horses-toowoomba-investigation/11924768
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Feb-05, 01:50 PM
It is all Peter V'Landys fault......

</sarcasm>

While the ABC was trying to turn this into an anti Racing NSW thing on the eve of The Everest, there were a lot of people (including myself) asking why they didn't report the cruelty as soon as they came into that knowledge.

Of course we all know it is because the Sydney based reporter living on the North Shore wants a Walkely. The ABC could not care less about horse welfare.

The bulk of the footage displayed cruelty in Queensland, and had nothing to do with Racing NSW.

Yet I was kept being called an apologist for PVL without people actually addressing my direct questions about why the focus was on PVL and not on Qld.

Then we find out this:

After notifying the RSPCA of the horrific scenes, the matter was handed to Queensland’s Department of Agriculture.

Locals then started feeding the starving horses themselves with Marjorie Pagani, from Australian Farm Animal Rescue Matters, funding most of the recovery.

But in a post on January 22, Ms Marsh claimed they were told to stop feeding the horses.

“We have been told by Biosecurity to cease feeding the remaining horses as we are interrupting their investigation,” she wrote on Facebook.

“They issued a post today saying the horses are being fed appropriately. Really? Since when are sheep pellets and sorghum stubble appropriate?”

...

“Despite public outrage and nearly 2500 emails to the Minister of Agriculture, there still appears to be very little action from Biosecurity Queensland to protect the remaining eight horses at a property near Toowoomba, where over 30 horses have already starved to death,” the two organisations said.

ALQ’s Executive Director Chay Neal lashed the government organisation said the action of concerned neighbours had saved the eight horses.

“Kind neighbours have been giving the horses small amounts of extra food over the last week or so, as they have been monitoring the feeding routine by the owner, who has only been attending once per day. The food being supplied by the owner has been low quality, wet straw. The action by these neighbours has meant that no further horses have died,” Mr Neal said.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/animals/fury-as-pictures-of-starving-and-dead-horses-on-queensland-farm-go-viral/

So do you guys get it now??

Or are you still going to carry on with your anti Racing NSW politics, as the ABC were doing on the eve of The Everest.

(Cue - personal insults)
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Feb-05, 04:47 PM
PP, two wrongs don’t make a right.

I have never wavered from my belief that all should be held accountable. Check all the posts.

Racing NSW and V’Landys lodged a complaint but the ABC found no case of bias etc.

Now up to Racing NSW and a V’landys to take it further to ACMA. I wonder if they will or was the complaint to ABC a symbolic issue as it was done with a lot of fanfare. The subsequent ABC complaint was hardly covered at all by the same media that covered the complaint.

ACMA could be the saviour for Racing NSW and V’Landys.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2020-Feb-06, 02:21 PM

So do you guys get it now??

Or are you still going to carry on with your anti Racing NSW politics, as the ABC were doing on the eve of The Everest.

(Cue - personal insults)
So PP7 who has given us the great classics such as "there is no evidence that C Waller uses drugs" a couple of years after the trainer publicly states " I use Lasix and believe in it" thinks that some members here need to 'get' something.

Do you 'get' the difference between a knackery and an abattoir yet?

The only thing that any fair minded person would' get'  from your contributions here are......put shit on the reporter, slag off at the ABC and promote P V'Landys.

My information is that P V'Landys has 'got' something because he has appointed an officer to go to horse sales........long time coming but he could have saved himself from some embarrassment on national TV.

Meanwhile what's changed at Meramist since the cruelty was exposed?......  apart from extra security in the holding pens to stop any errant cameras from identifying thoroughbreds and standardbreds from all states....well nothing.

One look at the on-line racehorse sales shows the problem.......too many horses and not enough buyers.......and very little interest in the OTT's.

If you can post some info re the success of the 3 rehoming farms in NSW.........that would be useful.......seems to be hard info to 'get'
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Feb-06, 04:26 PM
Nemesis, find a link below to the farm etc but I don’t know rates of success. The properties look good.

https://teamthoroughbred.com.au/our-facilities/
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Feb-06, 08:40 PM
Nemesis, find a link below to the farm etc but I don’t know rates of success. The properties look good.

https://teamthoroughbred.com.au/our-facilities/

There you go nemesis - not so hard to get after all.

So you obviously don't like commenting on horse cruelty matters in Qld but are an expert in NSW racing.

Where do you live again?
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2020-Feb-09, 11:43 AM
Nemesis, find a link below to the farm etc but I don’t know rates of success. The properties look good.

https://teamthoroughbred.com.au/our-facilities/
Thanks for the link Jeunes.

I'm more than happy to be corrected  but it appears only the Taree farm is taking thoroughbreds.
It has a capacity of 50 and only when one is re-homed does it accept another.

Capertee and Princes farms are not yet functioning and they are not going to be strictly re-homing facilities.

The other 2 at Picton and Muswellbrook would seem to be more already established welfare type programmes that RNSW has aligned itself with.

It was good to see that Ecuador has found a home after racing.
Anyone who thinks it would be acceptable for this high performing, million dollar plus earning  horse to be sent off for meat when he leaves the racetrack must live in la-la land.

Racehorse welfare got a run in yesterday's herald with this initiative below.

https://thoroughbredwelfareinitiative.org.au/?fbclid=IwAR16WPllYW0eHh6MP79CRc-xIC7nbtlqf49MgK5MLYkPiGnsbem5aVPOCpI

Worth looking at who is supporting it........can't see Arrowfield anywhere and not a lot from Gerry Harvey.

Like I said info hard to find and gladly be corrected.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Feb-09, 02:46 PM
Nem, I agree with you as I could not find statistics. I know a couple of parks were not open at time of the 7.30 report as either they were recently bought or being brought upto speed.

Racing NSW is headed in the right direction but I do think it should not just be them alone. It should be other Racing bodies, gambling operators and breeders too. The extent of what their contribution is another story.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: napes on 2020-Feb-10, 09:31 AM
Absolutely ridiculous!

I would like someone to work out the sustainability of keeping alive every racehorse in the world for the rest of their natural lives.

Wouldn't be too hard to calculate the greenhouse effect of hundreds of thousands of horses every year.

Apparently there are 13000 racehorses slaughtered every year in Australia. For how long will this window dressing be sustainable??

Throw into the calculations the loss of pet food that will have to come from somewhere else.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Feb-10, 04:26 PM
The issue Napes is an emotive one.

Most people in Australia do not give a damn about racing. Their argument is the industry breeds horses and then slaughters them when they are of no use. That does not sit well with many. The fact that some are cruelly des patched makes it even tougher for people to swallow.

I am yet to meet anyone who can tell me the difference between a caged hen egg or free range eggs. Try substituting them and people will eat them although my family had threatened homicide on me for doing that as a test.

The fact is economically, it is not feasible to keep every racehorse alive after racing, That is the quandary and in a world of social media and pressure, there will be a time when companies will bend and decide not to be involved in it.

Before people say who cares and stuff the animal liberation etc, don’t forget they do vote and they also spend. Some companies will recover from bad press and sponsorship but it takes time. Racing will bounce back. Majority of people in racing want change but economics is a reality of life.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Arsenal on 2020-Feb-10, 05:47 PM
Change needed in Qld racing: report
Monday 10 February, 2020
Sonia Kohlbacher
WHEN A RACEHORSE LEAVES THE TRACK
* Some Thoroughbreds and Standardbreds become stock used to breed potential future winners

* A small number of horses will be rehomed and become pets or hacks for pony club, while others become showjumpers or dressage horses

* Others are sent to slaughter to become human or pet food

* In 2019 footage emerged of workers at the Meramist abattoir north of Brisbane mistreating horses sent there to be killed and processed

SHOCKWAVES AND REACTION
* The allegations of animal cruelty appalled the Australian public

* Racing industry bodies spoke out against the treatment

* In Queensland, the government launched an investigation of the accusations led by retired District Court judge Terry Martin SC

THE VERDICT
* That probe found the management of racehorses as a disposable commodity was unethical and not aligned with community expectations

* It also found the racing industry could not be held accountable for the lifelong welfare of retired horses once their careers were over

* It found that were was no adequate animal welfare monitoring at slaughterhouses

WHAT WILL CHANGE?
* Two industry bodies will set up a rehoming scheme
* But owners will need to make two genuine attempts to rehome the horse, and put it to the rehoming scheme

* If that fails, the horses can be killed or sent to an abattoir

* The Queensland government has been told to prioritise animal welfare

* Resting periods are recommended where horses are being brought from other states to be slaughtered in Queensland

* Cameras should be installed to capture what happens at "critical animal welfare points" and provided to state government officials

* The state government has left the door open to new agreements with abattoirs, or new laws

ENDS

Nothing much more they could have done still should hopefully lead to more humane treatment when there's no other option than slaughter.


Giddy Up :beer:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Peter Mair on 2020-Feb-10, 08:00 PM


Horses are not special

Lets talk turkey  -- we are all open to being 'sacked' -- most animals are routinely killed once they have lived their useful life.

The wave of nonsense about 'pension for life' race-horses is just  plain nonsense.

....... any suggestion that the public-purse might be raided to fund a pension scheme for horses, is plain nonsense.

....... this nonsense has to stop!

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2020-Feb-11, 04:54 PM
Exactly.
The real problem that the industry has is transparency, huh.
When the stats come in..then the public can decide.
When we are all open that say 40% of racehorse foals do not make 7 years we will then see what a wonderful world we live in
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Arsenal on 2020-Feb-11, 06:16 PM
CCTV for Qld abattoirs after cruelty probe
Tuesday 11 February, 2020
 
The Queensland government has accepted some recommendations of a probe into animal cruelty.
Cameras will be installed at Queensland abattoirs to capture how retired racehorses are treated in the wake of an animal cruelty probe.
The new rule among dozens of recommendations about how the state government and racing industry can better take care of Thoroughbreds and Standardbreds once their careers are over.
Animal welfare groups estimate thousands of horses are slaughtered every year.
An investigation was launched after footage aired last year showing workers at the Meramist abattoir north of Brisbane tormenting horses before they were killed.
It found there is no adequate animal welfare monitoring at knackeries, and made clear using racehorses as a disposable commodity was unethical.
However, it also found the racing industry was not responsible for the lifelong care of retired horses.
CCTV will be installed to film what happens at "critical animal welfare points" with Biosecurity Queensland to review the footage.
This and other measures accepted by the state government will be rolled out via agreements or legislation.
Another new rule will require owners to make multiple attempts to rehome their racehorses before they can consider putting them down.
ENDS

Giddy Up :beer:

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: napes on 2020-Feb-12, 10:01 AM
We live in a world where 99% of cows don't make 7 years. 99% of pigs don't make 7 years. 99% of chickens don't make 7 years.

We live in the REAL world.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2020-Feb-12, 12:09 PM
7.30 Report  had a piece on the recommendations last night.

https://iview.abc.net.au/show/7-30/series/0/video/NC2001H022S00

Starts at 21.45.

It looks like the Australian Breeding Industry has finally realised what their industry is facing........all down hill!

Breed less......a lot less might help deal with the massive over supply of stock  because as the good judge from Queensland stated "only a small number will be re-homed"

I always wondered why there is always so much un-tried stock at thoroughbred sales.

Imagine being in the room when Alan Jones and Arrowfield Stud are told that Snitzel  will be restricted to 100 mares and they can only make $20 mil......won't happen so the problem will never go away.

Worth repeating......" the management of racehorses as a disposable commodity was unethical and not aligned with community expectations"
The Queensland probe just vindicates the accuracy of the original 7.30 Report.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: napes on 2020-Feb-12, 12:50 PM
Will be interesting when "community expectations" are that we can't eat meat or use animal products.

Will happen eventually, hopefully not in my time.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2020-Feb-19, 04:51 PM
From Bloodstock.com.au:

"New group bid for horse welfare strategy"

Melbourne

Saturday 8 February 2020, 12:52pm

Former Victorian premier Dr Denis Napthine will head an independent working group of industry groups to develop a national horse welfare strategy.

Thoroughbred Breeders Australia, the Australian Trainers' Association, the Australian Jockeys' Association, race clubs, studs and big-name owners and trainers are behind the initiative to review the current welfare landscape in Australia.

The working group will focus on horses exiting the thoroughbred industry, whether as retired racehorses or unraced animals, through to end-of-life management.

Horse welfare became a national focus following the airing of a report on the ABC's 7.30 Report on the eve of Australia's richest race, The Everest, last year.

Independence is the cornerstone of the review with expertise deliberately drawn from outside the racing and breeding industries.

Joining Dr Napthine will be Dr Bidda Jones, chief science and strategy officer for RSPCA Australia, Dr Ken Jacobs, a director of the Australian Veterinary Association, and Jack Lake, a senior advisor on agriculture in the Hawke, Keating and Rudd governments.

TBA chief executive Tom Reilly said the challenges of welfare, rehoming, retraining and end-of-life for thoroughbreds was a national issue.

"Too often our industry is fragmented along state lines," Reilly said.

"This initiative will facilitate a national discussion with the aim of finding national solutions.

"Everybody who I have asked for support have been happy to give it and get behind this."

A steering committee that includes leading trainer Chris Waller will sign off on the terms of reference for the group, expected later in the year.

"This initiative is an opportunity to start building a national approach to welfare in racing and all industry players should grab it," Waller said.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Peter Mair on 2020-Feb-19, 06:20 PM


Feel-good nonsense -- let us give priority to people scrapped by the system


The working group will focus on horses exiting the thoroughbred industry, whether as retired racehorses or unraced animals, through to end-of-life management.


How about a proper focus on people no longer considered employable?

Will the national parliament  focus on people exiting the workforce, whether as retired  or disabled or prematurely displaced by technology, through to end-of-life management.

"This initiative is an opportunity to start building a national approach to welfare........ all players should grab it,"

People first -- horses also run on their merits!

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Shogun Lodge on 2020-Feb-20, 06:56 AM
Peter, we do have such a system...it was called social security.
Of course, these days it is called  Centrelink, and we are obsessed with denying people Disability support pension, disregarding medical evidence, because we love kicking the welfare recipient and keeping them under immense pressure on Newstart pittance.
Stupidest thing is that  it is much more expensive enforcing Newstart rules and attached compliance nonsense than just paying people an increased payment and letting them get on with it.
Ever since Johnny Howard we have attacked Centrelink recipients...
You only need to read the comments here against me, because I get $50per week.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Feb-20, 07:49 AM
I don’t think Disability Pension or Newstart Allowance qualifications are the issue on majority of the cases.

I know someone who works in the employment services industry for the unemployed. He said in his area, there are around 20 services that focus on unemployed and people with disabilities. He said some are one person operations while others have a few staff.

My question is how do you expect quality service from some of these places when you only have one person. If I walked into a single operator retail store, the range of goods will be smaller than a large retail store. Maybe the single operator will offer better service but the variety or experience will be limited.

The other issue is with so many providers, the infrastructure costs will eat into the services provided too because of duplication. Reality is they are all using taxpayer money to survive through fees etc.

The government is better off having a few agencies so they can help people get jobs etc.

The government should focus more on catching business tax cheats rather than focus on welfare only. Robodebts showed how flawed the government thinking or understanding of the tax and welfare systems.

As a tax payer, I get tired of not getting concessions as certain small businesses do. I needed a plumber for work, called him up and after paying callout and hourly fee, I paid him through our invoices. He was happy and I said sorry it was not cash. He goes don’t worry about as I need invoices at times too. He has negligible income for last 5 years. He told me his accountant wipes all his bills including lunches and dinners etc for work. His last holiday with his family was a conference. He also drives a brand new dual cab and his wife a BMW as a director of his company.

That is the flaw with the tax system of Australia. Too many concessions to businesses but not to wage earners. My receptionist pays $50 a week in transport to come to work but can’t write off for tax as some people do with an ABN. She has an old computer while we have small businesses who operate at a “loss” able to manage new cars, furnishings and electronics each year.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Mar-02, 04:16 PM
Here we go, the fun starts with Vlandys suing ABC. From SMH below.



V'landys sues ABC for defamation over racehorse cruelty expose




Sarah Keoghan

By Sarah Keoghan

 March 2, 2020 — 2.03pm


Racing NSW boss Peter V'landys has launched defamation proceedings against the ABC and journalist Caro Meldrum-Hanna over an expose aired on 7.30  late last year, which revealed acts of cruelty against former racehorses across Australia.

Federal court documents obtained by the Herald state Mr V'landys will argue he was "greatly injured" by his portrayal in the segment, with his business, personal and professional reputation brought into "public disrepute, ridicule and contempt".

The two-year investigation, titled The Final Race, made allegations that hundreds of Australian racehorses were being sent to slaughterhouses. The segment aired on October 17 last year, just two days before the running of The Everest at Randwick, the highlight of Sydney's spring racing carnival.

Mr V'landys appeared in the program to respond to the claims on behalf of Racing NSW and stated in the segment that zero per cent of horses in NSW were being sent to the knackery.


Mr V'landys will seek aggravated damages on the basis that the ABC "failed to disclose" to him undercover footage obtained from a number of facilities across NSW and Queensland that was used in the program.

In doing so, Mr V'landys will argue the ABC behaved "dishonestly" and did not give him a chance to explain that Racing NSW has no jurisdiction over Queensland, where most of the racehorses in the program were from.

ABC's 7.30 program revealed alleged acts of animal cruelty against former racehorses.

ABC's 7.30 program revealed alleged acts of animal cruelty against former racehorses. Credit:ABC 7.30

In the segment, Mr V'landys also questioned what the people "attacking thoroughbred racing" were doing about the thousands of domestic cats and dogs abandoned and euthanised each year, a statement which was condemned by racing figures in NSW.

His legal team, headed by Bruce McClintock, SC, will argue before the court that the segment implied Mr V'landys "callously permitted the wholesale slaughter of thoroughbred horses" and "dishonestly asserted that no racehorses were sent to knackeries for slaughter in New South Wales when he knew that was untrue".

They will also argue that the program made out that due to his "indifference to their suffering", Mr V'landys had "ignored the cruelty to which thoroughbred horses were subjected to in a Queensland abattoir".

"By reasons of the matter complained of, the Applicant has been greatly injured and his business, personal and professional reputation has been, continues to be and will be brought into public disrepute, ridicule and contempt," court documents state.

Mr V'landys will also argue that the segment implied he was lying when he said that Racing NSW "cared about the welfare of thoroughbred horses" and took "adequate steps to protect their welfare".

"It's before the courts and we will be pursuing it vigorously," Mr V'landys said.

A spokeswoman for the ABC said the company would be "defending the proceedings".

A case management hearing is listed for April 2 in the Federal Court.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2020-Mar-03, 09:37 AM
It seems extraordinary to me that this action is being taken and I hope that it is not being funded by the welfare fund.

There is a video of V'Landys basically telling a group of breeders that they are going to be caught out if they keep on disposing of their 'surplus to requirement stock' the way they've doing it  for years.
ABC  also has  e-mail evidence of RNSW being notified of thoroughbreds at 'saleyards' where generally the only buyers in attendance are ' kill buyers' or 'trade'  and yet nothing is done.

P V'landys as CEO should have been practising and practising his answer to the very obvious question 'Where are all these disappearing thoroughbreds going to Peter'?
Looks like he is suing for a bruised ego.

Different times now as evidenced by Appleholic.....a 17 yr old NSW mare who turned up at The Echuca sales on Friday.
Once notified, RNSW organised a safe bid for her......sadly there are so many thoroughbreds bred each year this is not sustainable.
https://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/HorseAllForm.aspx?HorseCode=OTIzODU3MDQ%3d&src=horsesearch

Lack of horse welfare was always going to to bring the racing industry to it's knees and right now it is buckling under the pressure and anyone who thinks otherwise should think again.

Good piece here https://www.horsetalk.co.nz/2020/02/15/australian-racing-industry-failed-retired-racehorses/
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: napes on 2020-Mar-03, 10:26 AM
The hypocrites are at it again.

The worst part of the court case is we "the public" will be funding both sides of the argument. Again only the lawyers win.

Of course the practice of keeping ex-racehorses alive for 30 years is unsustainable. Just window dressing. If someone could work out the nett greenhouse affect of just one generation of foals to be kept alive for 30 years it would be very interesting.

It's quite legal to shoot kangaroos for pet meat and they are a native animal and on the coat of arms!! 

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Mar-03, 11:42 AM
In doing so, Mr V'landys will argue the ABC behaved "dishonestly" and did not give him a chance to explain that Racing NSW has no jurisdiction over Queensland, where most of the racehorses in the program were from.

Some people on this thread still don't get this point in spite of it being pointed out on over half a dozen occasions.  :whistle:

My money is on the ABC lawyers paying out before it gets to court. It is after all taxpayers money, not theirs.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Mar-03, 01:55 PM
In doing so, Mr V'landys will argue the ABC behaved "dishonestly" and did not give him a chance to explain that Racing NSW has no jurisdiction over Queensland, where most of the racehorses in the program were from.

Some people on this thread still don't get this point in spite of it being pointed out on over half a dozen occasions.  :whistle:

My money is on the ABC lawyers paying out before it gets to court. It is after all taxpayers money, not theirs.



I honestly think if this goes the distance there will be revelations from both sides.

When ABC investigated the complaint from Racing NSW and V’Landys, there was only way to go from V’Landys.

I personally think that Racing Bodies and ABC have a few issues to consider as it could backfire on all. The stewards investigation on Camden sales could be interesting along with ABC not acting when they saw cruelty. If it goes to court, there will be more focus on the cruelty aspect too.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2020-Mar-03, 01:59 PM
I'm certain the ABC will relish the opportunity to defend themselves on this one.
If the Gov. continue cutting the funding I'll offer my services .......pro-bono.

I have a 50% record ......one good win and one good dressing down.

There is only one McLintock I'd be worried about taking on and it's this one.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057298/mediaviewer/rm1694471425
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Gintara on 2020-Mar-03, 08:56 PM
I'm certain the ABC will relish the opportunity to defend themselves on this one.


Not so sure about that nemisis. Surely all the evidence gathered and time lines of when & if will come into question, mightn't portray the ABC in the greatest light and the whole agenda that was driven.

I returned my ATC membership because of PV but I'm with him on this one. 
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Mar-03, 10:33 PM
Not so sure about that nemisis. Surely all the evidence gathered and time lines of when & if will come into question, mightn't portray the ABC in the greatest light and the whole agenda that was driven.

I returned my ATC membership because of PV but I'm with him on this one.

Yes I'm dying to see the ABC explain the paradox of showing a program to protect the welfare of horses, but elongating the suffering at Meramist because they didn't notify the RSPCA immediately just so they could hold off running the show until the eve of The Everest.

They are going to look like evil people who put their journalistic narcissism ahead of the welfare of horses.

I reckon they will settle before it gets into the public courts to save face.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Mar-03, 11:20 PM
Yes I'm dying to see the ABC explain the paradox of showing a program to protect the welfare of horses, but elongating the suffering at Meramist because they didn't notify the RSPCA immediately just so they could hold off running the show until the eve of The Everest.

They are going to look like evil people who put their journalistic narcissism ahead of the welfare of horses.

I reckon they will settle before it gets into the public courts to save face.

Interesting test case on a few fronts. Who has the nerve to hold on till court time?

V’Landys will be a busy man this year with his Racing NSW and NRL commitments plus his lawsuit now.

On bright side, more accountability for both sides.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: nemisis on 2020-Mar-04, 08:54 AM
Not so sure about that nemisis. Surely all the evidence gathered and time lines of when & if will come into question, mightn't portray the ABC in the greatest light and the whole agenda that was driven.

I returned my ATC membership because of PV but I'm with him on this one.
Have you actually 'sat through' the complete program yet, Gintara.

It was a tough watch for this thoroughbred loving boy, I can tell you.....but I did and without any distractions.

Of all the cruelty and the massive disposal of unwanted horses we saw, the only 'rules' of racing that were being breached were the RNSW's rules.

That was the case against RNSW.
So when the cock-sure CEO was confronted with evidence on national TV and was so quickly set back on his heels...... he wants to sue for his shortcomings.
RNSW's welfare rules were too silly for words, couldn't possibly be policed and just shifted the problem of racing's over breeding to other states.

At no point did the program suggest  that V'Landys was responsible for the cruelty at Meramist......just pointed out he should have been aware that NSW horses were being put through that shit hole. Lets not even mention Camden Sales......one quick look at the dogger's trucks in the car park tell the picture of what was going on there

I'm not going to watch it again to confirm this but V'Landys was only on for a few minutes I think .
Hard to work out what the driving force behind this move is.

Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: napes on 2020-Mar-04, 09:41 AM
The ABC will do as they have always done. Whatever is politically best for the ALP.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: JWesleyHarding on 2020-Mar-04, 09:53 AM
The ABC will do as they have always done. Whatever is politically best for the ALP.

What utter bullshit.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Mar-04, 11:56 AM
The ABC will do as they have always done. Whatever is politically best for the ALP.

I can’t see any link to this report and Labor Party.
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: napes on 2020-Mar-06, 12:22 PM
My mistake. I am sure they will continue with their completely unbiased commentary   :lol:
Title: The Final Race 7.30
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Mar-06, 01:01 PM
My mistake. I am sure they will continue with their completely unbiased commentary    :lol:

That is why I like News Corp and ABC. They are the bastions of unbiased journalism.