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The Final Race 7.30 - Racing Talk - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: The Final Race 7.30  (Read 7045 times)

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Offline wily ole dog

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« 2019-Nov-04, 04:32 PM Reply #275 »
If I may. The beef is that bugger all seems to be pinned on RQ, The ABC, Qld Government, The abattoir or the fithly criminal turds beating the shutout of animals

The worlds going to hell in a hand basket and according to most here itís PVís fault🤮

Over to PP to explain it more eloquently

Offline Jeunes

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« 2019-Nov-04, 06:59 PM Reply #276 »
If I may. The beef is that bugger all seems to be pinned on RQ, The ABC, Qld Government, The abattoir or the fithly criminal turds beating the shutout of animals

The worlds going to hell in a hand basket and according to most here itís PVís fault🤮

Over to PP to explain it more eloquently

Fair enough but I do think there is a few to blame including Vílandys.

Offline Jeunes

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« 2019-Nov-04, 07:32 PM Reply #277 »

Online PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Nov-04, 08:58 PM Reply #278 »
Another interesting viewpoint from both sides. Life is changing.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/the-melbourne-cup-hit-by-protests-after-horse-deaths/news-story/f9948e85ad3a3b68cde5d197292e65f2

There are many moving parts here. Horse cruelty on film. NSW horses turning up in abattoirs when that practice is banned in NSW but not in other states. And the Melbourne Cup mortality rate.

The death of 6 horses since 2013 during or post Melbourne Cup. Those of us who follow racing all year round would know that this is a number that is well above expectation. Am I wrong in saying that just about all those deaths are overseas based horses?

I'm still shocked when I think of the death of Admire Rakti. This horse came from near last to win the Caulfield Cup. Then Purton (certainly would have been under instruction) rode it in the lead running fast sectionals in The Cup. It was gone before the home turn. Then it drops dead in the stalls after the race. Intuitively something really wrong happened there that was never fully investigated and explained.

It certainly doesn't help the cause of horse racing and gives animal activists ammunition.

Offline Jeunes

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« 2019-Nov-04, 09:41 PM Reply #279 »
There is less interest in sports and definitely racing over the past decade. Racing is entertainment and people can take it or leave it. If they go to the races, they bet otherwise it is usually MC with all the parties at work.

The sad part now is that some millennials and others do not even fancy the cup. Animal welfare is part of the issues but there are other factors too.

Society has evolved. 25 years ago, gay marriage would have never been thought as being in our lifetime but a majority of our population agreed with it. Who would have thought 15 years ago that climate change would be a big issue for some. Letís even make it simple, 20 years ago Blockbuster, Videoezy, Kodak, Fuji were great stocks. Now just obsolete. Society has evolved.

Racing needs to change and we have to appear to be doing something rather than play the blame game. The damage is done in the eyes of many even prior to the ABC report.

The only way racing to be relevant in a25 years time would be to about quality of the participants.

There needs to be some hard questions and no coverups for the future. More and more social media has changed the landscape for the better and worse so exposure is only a short time away for the people who spoil it for the rest of us


Online PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Nov-04, 09:49 PM Reply #280 »
Agree with you Jeunes.

My first memories of the Melbourne Cup are Rain Lover winning in 1968.

I can recall the shocking death of Dulcify (?? 1978) as being the only fatality in the last millennium - happy to be corrected.

Then all of a sudden we have 6 deaths in 6 years??

I think the RVL vet did the right thing in ordering the withdrawal of horses displaying signs of soreness.

God imagine if there is a death this year. It could very well threaten the very existence of the race.

Offline Jeunes

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« 2019-Nov-05, 06:52 AM Reply #281 »
An interesting article from the Guardian below.

They are right about Fridayís newspaper as that is the only time I buy it. Great way to hide behind the paper and study the form from my young days.   :lol:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/04/a-sure-thing-how-australias-love-of-gambling-keeps-horse-racing-alive

Offline Gintara

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« 2019-Nov-05, 10:35 AM Reply #282 »


Then all of a sudden we have 6 deaths in 6 years??



I've argued this a bit this week, the usual hand wringers have latched onto this and will tell you 6 have died in the MC since 2013 - well one was Araldo who kicked a fence (nothing to do with racing) after being spooked by a flag & another was Regal Monarch (not sure on spelling) who didn't even race in the Cup. So 6 becomes 4 pretty quick.

They'll also tell you 122 or so have died on tracks this year, I always counter by can you give me that as a % vs the number of starters - I'm yet to get a response or answer and normally get abused for it. I'd suspect it's well less than 1%

None of that makes it right, nor should it mean we don't look at ways to improve but puts into context the spin you get from these types.

Offline Shogun Lodge

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« 2019-Nov-06, 06:51 AM Reply #283 »
Groupthought hey?
I knew someone would find a way to align the Catholic church with the Racing industry.
Poor old mistakenly maligned organisations, hey?
Dear oh dear.

Offline Jeunes

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« 2019-Nov-07, 06:47 PM Reply #284 »
Groupthought hey?
I knew someone would find a way to align the Catholic church with the Racing industry.
Poor old mistakenly maligned organisations, hey?
Dear oh dear.

????

Offline Shogun Lodge

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« 2019-Nov-09, 10:28 PM Reply #285 »
Reply #266.
PP's list of issues he thinks we are all being told how to react to, by that nasty group called the rational majority.
He calls us "groupthinkers"...
Reads like a list from Sky news program...suprise surprise.

Offline Jeunes

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Online PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Nov-10, 08:25 PM Reply #287 »
Reply #266.
PP's list of issues he thinks we are all being told how to react to, by that nasty group called the rational majority.
He calls us "groupthinkers"...
Reads like a list from Sky news program...suprise surprise.

I had to go back and look that one up.

And what a gem of wisdom it was too  :angel:

It was a great article and I must try and get time to read the book "The Madness Of Crowds" by Douglas Murray.

I read a book over a decade ago by Shelly Gare called "The Rise and Rise of the Air Heads" that was a portent to some of the stuff we are seeing with "Groupthink".

Sanctimonious people telling you the "correct" way to think on all sorts of issues - animal activism, Climate Change, coal mining, electric cars, transgender, Israel Folau, Gay Marriage, gender equity, George Pell, black armband history, disingenuous apologies, Donald Trump, Brexit, The Big Banks, The Catholic Church, acceptable language...I could go on.

Scratch the surface of a Groupthinker and there is usually a hypocrite underneath.

Offline Jeunes

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« 2019-Nov-10, 09:26 PM Reply #288 »
I had to go back and look that one up.

And what a gem of wisdom it was too  :angel:

I think the irony is that Group Thinkers are perceived to be hypocrites while the opposing views donít see themselves in that way.

The only cure for that is having a fist fight we can bet on the outcomes.   :lol:

Online PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Nov-10, 09:40 PM Reply #289 »
I think the irony is that Group Thinkers are perceived to be hypocrites while the opposing views donít see themselves in that way.

The only cure for that is having a fist fight we can bet on the outcomes.   :lol:

What I object to is being told by someone (e.g. a politician from The Greens) that "I need to do this" to prevent Climate Change when we all know they are not doing it themselves.

Take for example the self declared "climate warrior" Zali Steggal. She lives in the city and drives around in a Nissan Patrol. In spite of her saying she saying she was going to get rid of it she hasn't and uses the justification that she has kids to drive around.

Then there is the fact that Adam Bandt is the only Green federal politician who owns an electric car.

I am not going to listen to people who are flagrant hypocrites, and it follows that I am not going to listen to people who proselytize their hypocritical dogma.

I rarely fly. I would think that Zali Steggal, Sarah Hansen-Young, etc add heaps more to the carbon footprint than I ever will.

Yet they are put up as the leaders we should listen to when it comes to climate change.

You want credibility? Lead by example. Turn off the air conditioning in Parliament House.

Good on you Adam Bandt.

Offline Jeunes

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« 2019-Nov-10, 10:08 PM Reply #290 »
PP, I concur with you but it is both sides of the politics in this.

We gave Morrison taking aim at activism but we have lobby groups who spruik for banks, mining companies, insurance companies, gambling agencies etc. The lobbyists hide behind an impressive name with Council or Authority or Body as part of it to give it a perceived official or regulatory authority.

The activists on the other hand are either a rabble or not wealthy enough to be like that so they use social media or physical status for their actions.

Donít get me started on media balance too as there is usually no middle political coverage. I am using a 50/50 or even a 40/60 coverage of one side. Media and journalists like ABC, AJ, Bolt etc may criticise their sides at times but rarely ever credit the opposing view on a equal basis as they do their own.

We have ministers who have criticised the Chinese influence but are happy to take their money and allow their  students in. They are either stupid or weak depending on your point of view. It is like fighting with a relative but happy to take their money.  Not fair for China either way to be hypocritical.

Hypocrisy is real in the world.

Offline wily ole dog

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« 2019-Nov-11, 05:59 AM Reply #291 »
The only thing I will add is this.

Leave lovely Zarli alone, PP, she did us all a massive favour 🥳

Offline Shogun Lodge

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« 2019-Nov-11, 09:33 AM Reply #292 »
Aaaah...another ole straw man argument...thats right, no-one can have an opinion on climate change unless they live
in a cave and subsist on native grasses and have no phone.
Classic the way idiot deniers , who don't believe it's happening, then say by the way I don't fly, I eat less red meat I don't own the diesel anymore etc etc..virtue signalling regards a behavioral change they have made, yet they say that change is not required.
Regurgitated Sky news type crap...all it is...
Dare to be different hey?
Fools...whilst NSW burns, unprecedented conditions, still they squirm and dodge.

Offline napes

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« 2019-Nov-11, 10:45 AM Reply #293 »
The true believers (or deniers in that case) may be misdirected morons but they aren't hypocrites. They really believe. They aren't changing their life for anyone.

Interesting this thread has found its way to climate change, but no discussion of the effect of thousands of horses living unproductive lives using resources and producing carbon. Where they could be utilized to feed people or other animals.

Online PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Nov-11, 08:55 PM Reply #294 »
Aaaah...another ole straw man argument...thats right, no-one can have an opinion on climate change unless they live
in a cave and subsist on native grasses and have no phone.


I didn't say that at all.

Surely you can see that Steggal could choose to drive something that guzzles a bit less juice than an Xtrail (I think I said Patrol before) if she is going to call herself a "climate warrior".

I think that is fair criticism.

Native grasses, etc. You are overstating things Shogun. Those whom I criticize have made themselves very rich by claiming to be "saving the planet".

I don't think they interested in saving the planet one little bit. They are using people's fears to line their pockets. They are no better than snake oil salesmen.

Online PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Nov-11, 09:00 PM Reply #295 »
PP, I concur with you but it is both sides of the politics in this.

We gave Morrison taking aim at activism but we have lobby groups who spruik for banks, mining companies, insurance companies, gambling agencies etc. The lobbyists hide behind an impressive name with Council or Authority or Body as part of it to give it a perceived official or regulatory authority.

The activists on the other hand are either a rabble or not wealthy enough to be like that so they use social media or physical status for their actions.

Donít get me started on media balance too as there is usually no middle political coverage. I am using a 50/50 or even a 40/60 coverage of one side. Media and journalists like ABC, AJ, Bolt etc may criticise their sides at times but rarely ever credit the opposing view on a equal basis as they do their own.

We have ministers who have criticised the Chinese influence but are happy to take their money and allow their  students in. They are either stupid or weak depending on your point of view. It is like fighting with a relative but happy to take their money.  Not fair for China either way to be hypocritical.

Hypocrisy is real in the world.

Can't argue with any of that.

In regards to Jones - he is not as black and white as people make out.

Sure, he defers to the conservative side of politics in general.

However he has sided with The Greens against "fracking".

In the arguments that the ABC is too left wing, he has defended the ABC saying that conservatives need to appear on shows like Q & A to argue their case (he appears often).

His criticisms of Morrison's lack of action in regard to the drought has been delivered quite angrily.

You could argue that he was a major influence in the fall of Liberal premier Mike Baird.

He is not a conservative stereotype that's for sure.

Offline Jeunes

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« 2019-Nov-11, 09:44 PM Reply #296 »
Whatís going on PP, we are agreeing with each other at times.

I do have a soft spot for Leicester  but my team is chasing their first title in 30 years so pardon me if I hope all the teams behind the Reds fail.

Online PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Nov-11, 09:51 PM Reply #297 »
Whatís going on PP, we are agreeing with each other at times.

I do have a soft spot for Leicester  but my team is chasing their first title in 30 years so pardon me if I hope all the teams behind the Reds fail.

Liverpool will come down with the Xmas decorations. Remember my words.   :biggrin:

The Foxes are poised for another title. Treated Arsenal with contempt and we were very unlucky not to get a draw at Anfield a few weeks back.

Offline Jeunes

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« 2019-Nov-11, 09:59 PM Reply #298 »
Liverpool will come down with the Xmas decorations. Remember my words.    :biggrin:  

The Foxes are poised for another title. Treated Arsenal with contempt and we were very unlucky not to get a draw at Anfield a few weeks back.

I kind of agree with you as we are alive in too many competitions.

Mind sound sacreligious but I would rather sacrifice the Champions League / FA cup this year for a Premiere League title.

Offline wily ole dog

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« 4 hours ago Reply #299 »
How are Queens Park Rangers going nowadays
.
Last time I watched English soccer Phil Parks was in goal and Stan Bowles & Terry Vennables weíre on fire


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