When this thread was started Mr Mair asked the world to consider  "…...so far, how many good progeny are linked to Sunline, Black Caviar and Winx?"                        
The question then seemed to morph into how many 'champions' produce 'champions'                        
Everyone has their own definition of a champion.  Magical, a 7 time G1 winner has just been retired. Her mum was a 3 time G1 winner - that might fit the proposition that a champion mum can produce a champion - but I don't rate 3 time G1 winners highly as we would have too many champions.                         
Mr Mair hasn't defined 'good progeny'.                          
                        
Peter Pring identified 'good progeny' of champions in Analysis of Champion Racehorses (1977). Mr Pring identified 86 champions from foal years 1894 to 1955 ( ave 1.4 per foal crop) of which 21 were fillies and mares the first being La Carabine (1894) and the last Wiggle (1955).                          
 The 21 had 155 foals and Mr Pring ranked each foal either outstanding, very good, good, moderate, poor / not proven as a racehorse.                          
Of the 155 foals, 2 were rated outstanding, 7 very good and 14 good (one over fences). About 10 foals won races that were later classified as G1.  A 'good' rating was essentially given to any foal that won a race at a city racecourse in Australia or NZ that was not a stakes race (Listed or above these days).                          
Does Mr Mair agree that Mr Pring's rating of 'good' agrees with his own idea of 'good' progeny and if not what is his definition of 'good'.                         
                        
Looking at the Australia  and New Zealand 2012 foal crop (because I could get the numbers easily and the crop has just about finished racing so no more 'good progeny' are likely to emerge) the number of foals we                        
Australia   15,044                     
NZ   3,780                     
Total foals   18,824                     
I reckon only 2 possible champions came out of the 2012 foal crop: Santa Ana Lane and  Beauty Generation and neither were mares.                         
                        
I don't have foal crop numbers for 2000 to 2009 but I consider there were 26 possible champions in this era of which 6 were mares.  So not much has changed in 100 years as mares make up just under 25% of champions then and now which makes the task of producing champions no easier now as it looks like a numbers game to me.                        
                        
Cheers                        
                        
PS Greta Bradman is an opera singer and announcer on ABC Classic radio where I am sure she demonstrates all the batting skill of her granddad.                          

Since 2000 you may be right. The breeding industry and to some degree I think the prize money structure hasn't helped some potentially champion males

Hmm since the turn of the century  Easy - Lonhro 


Easy to cherry pick your way through history though, why not 1990? 1980? ....

Norman Pentaquad has been cloned 
https://www.theland.com.au/story/7076171/ellerston-welcomes-the-return-of-one-of-its-all-time-greats/?fbclid=IwAR3C0ZdLW8rrGpXbyzm6J2vuA6oYaoqvf-IVaHeRhqRZjrVElRowqbyZm5Q

I wonder if the new Norman has the extra foot.
And to think of all those years I wondered what happened to the sire of Doriemus..... .....and now there is another one.

A useful data set to analyse whether champions produce champions might be the USA Hall of Fame  list of horses.  If wikipedia and my counting is up to scratch there are 193 horses in the US racing Hall of Fame which should provide a decent sample size to measure success of both sires and dams passing on their genes to a later generation of champions. The end of the civil war (1865) would make a useful starting point as the racing pattern commenced to reflect the pattern of modern day racing.  There will be a couple of breaks in continuity of racing because of anti gambling legislation passed in 1894 and 1908 which hopefully wouldn’t affect the analysis too much.  I will leave the analysis for another day. Someone else is welcome to have a go.  I note Mr Mair still hasn’t defined good progeny. 

Cheers

Getting back to something close to the original point  of the thread I  note that Goldikova (a champion) died recently and i think the best of her foals were a group 3 winner and another that was group 1 placed. I also note that Desert Gold was the grand dam of Gold Rod  and I would be prepared to call him a champion but may not be quite what Mr Mair was looking for? 

To digress what we need is a Global flat racing Hall of Fame to bring all the champions together.  The start time could be circa 1850 when 'modern' horse racing commenced.  Every country that has a G1 race is guaranteed one place so that the Americans and Europeans don't get all the cake.  So Canada might have Northern Dancer, Sandpit for Brazil, Invasor for Argentina, Singapore and South Africa might have 'No Idea'. Other countries that don't have a G1 race can still be considered eg Hungary and Kincsem  Total global numbers limited to say 50 to make it very exclusive. Once the places are filled a horse can only get in if another is given the boot.  The International Federation of Horse Racing Authorities could host it.  Perhaps perversely it would give every one a chance to vent and that might be entertaining for five minutes.  Success in the breeding barn not to be taken into account - could be separate Hall of Fame for that.

Cheers

Lonhro was a good horse but a

I knew I'd get one