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Author Topic: Trick/ Tricky Questions . .  (Read 419 times)

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Offline arthur

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O.P. « 2019-May-09, 09:40 AM »
In days gone by 'the pub' was a great meeting spot where men would meet and exchange ideas, challenge their mates, and bet on all kinds of 'contingencies'

One such betting avenue, was to set up a seemingly impossible situation, and then find some poor innocent who would bet that it couldn't/ didn't happen . .

There must be dozens of instances of these 'out there' that you can share . . Here is one to start the ball rolling . .



Harry, the horse owner, who never told a lie, was complaining about the worst nag that he had ever fed. "In fact," said Harry, "It was so bad, that it only ever won three Maidens!"

Now how could that be true??


Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2019-May-09, 11:56 AM Reply #1 »
Shades of Fine Cotton/Bold Personality?

Offline ratsack

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« 2019-May-09, 12:12 PM Reply #2 »
In days gone by you could win a maiden and if you already had a nom for another maiden the next day you could win that as well
Then win a maiden hurdle

Offline Bubbasmith

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« 2019-May-09, 01:01 PM Reply #3 »
I was once told beware of anyone offering odds about anything in a pub. Here is one that fleeced a few SP bookies in the old days.

This bloke , who was unknown in the pub, walked up to the SP and said "what odds would you give me to pick 5 winners,in today's 8 race program. As the pattern of racing might change during the day  I will place my selection in that jar on the bar as each race comes up. At the end of the meeting you can pull my selections out of the jar"

The SP said this bloke must be a mug I give him 20/1 and he will probably accept those unders. The bet is accepted

Before race one the  bloke writes his selection on a bit of paper and puts it in the jar, the first race is won by a 10/1 shot and the SP is already counting his money as the logical pick the 6/4 favourite  is beaten. Before race two the bloke puts his selection in the jar.This same procedure goes on throughout the afternoon with a few shorties and a few each way horses winning.

After the last all his selections are pulled out of the jar, and low and behold he has selected five winners. How did he do it ?

« Last Edit: 2019-May-09, 01:07 PM by Bubbasmith »

Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2019-May-09, 01:13 PM Reply #4 »
First name in jar is his race 8 selection.2nd name is the winner of race 1 etc etc until after the last win he is assured of 7 winners at least. 

Offline Bubbasmith

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« 2019-May-09, 01:47 PM Reply #5 »
Correct, but needs to put in a few losers so cover the rort.

Offline Bubbasmith

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« 2019-May-09, 02:29 PM Reply #6 »
This rort actually happened for years and many SP were taken for a ride.
In Melbourne in the 1960's and 1970's the "get out race " was always the last race in Adelaide, where SP bookies held more than any other race on the day and this rort went undetected for years, however an astute punter employed a team of runners to place $50-$100 bets @ SP at as many pubs they could get on all over Melbourne so that the bets did not alert the SPs.  ( they did not have to nominate the horse, just that they wanted to be on the favorite ) however it was stipulated that  if there were equal favorites there was no bet. Fortunately this punter had the official price assessor in his pocket. If the punter knew there was likely to be a short priced favorite he would not bet, however if the favorite was not clear cut and it was an even betting race he jumped on the favorite.

Assuming two or even three horses were likely to start favorite the price assessor was in the position to declare any of those horses the favorite or equal favorites. If the winner was one of those horses it was always declared the outright favorite, however if neither of them won they were declared equal favorites, Outright favorite : the punter won no matter which horse won, Equal favorites: all bets off. 

The punter had two or even three horses running with no risk .  :king:  

Offline arthur

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« 2019-May-09, 05:30 PM Reply #7 »
A 'modus operandi' used to effect by many of the Qld coppers pre-Fitzgerald Inquiry

Offline arthur

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« 2019-May-09, 05:44 PM Reply #8 »
Now back to that triple maiden winner . .

The horse ran 2nd in a Mdn race, and then won a Mdn race . . the winner of that first race was subsequently disqualified . . but after the 2nd race had been decided

Said flat performer then took up jumping and won his 3rd Mdn (as pointed out by Rats)

And I may be wrong, but I think that the programming system mentioned by Rats may still apply in NZ



PS . . unlikely as it may be . . a horse that ran 'x' seconds followed by 'x' disqualifications . .  :what:  :lol:

Online jfc

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« 2019-May-09, 06:06 PM Reply #9 »
So these SPs that were taken for a ride didn't bother finding out where they were passengers.

Hardly of Meyer Lansky calibre.

But had they done the simple analysis that price assessor would be in a right pickle.

Offline arthur

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« 2019-May-09, 06:54 PM Reply #10 »
I think that in the Qld case, the SP's found themselves in an 'unavoidable' situation between a rock and a hard place . .

And

The journalist responsible for the Sunday-Mail prices on which the rort depended, did find himself "in a right pickle", having his employment terminated

Marvellous how much history is 'lost'/ forgotten in just a short period of 30 years

Online jfc

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« 2019-May-09, 07:24 PM Reply #11 »
The trouble is most of those tricks never make it into history.

Because the media hacks know revealing well known scams is not buttering their own bread.

Earlier I described the audacious scam where the Newcastle manager facilitated betting after jump, and even encouraged the cognoscenti to avail themselves of this perk.

Nothing about this in the media, I learned that from a beneficiary.

And nothing about fake prices that race employees would post for the gullible public,including moi.

Nor about cancellations - that tremendous manipulation tool, that industry stewards never seemed to cotton on to.

Offline fours

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« 2019-May-09, 07:34 PM Reply #12 »
jfc,

After some time time limits were introduced on cancellations.

To my mind however anyone that needs tricks or rorts is simply not a good punter - but a fraudster.

Giving them the term 'professional' cheapens the term in my view.

Fours

Offline Bubbasmith

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« 2019-May-09, 10:09 PM Reply #13 »
So these SPs that were taken for a ride didn't bother finding out where they were passengers.

Hardly of Meyer Lansky calibre.

But had they done the simple analysis that price assessor would be in a right pickle.
Because the individual bets were with a multitude of SPs in pubs all over Melbourne and never more than $100 and  because the last in Adelaide was their biggest betting race of the day the punter got away with the rort for years as the SPs hardly noticed that they had been fleeced as most of the winners were never over 7/2.


Offline Bubbasmith

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« 2019-May-10, 10:18 AM Reply #14 »
I was told this story by an SP , who has since passed on, who operated in the days when SP betting was in every pub or back lane in Melbourne.

In the days before the introduction of legalised off course betting all off track betting was done through SPs. You could get a bet on any Saturday meeting anywhere as long as you took SP. The SPs paid out on the results published in the state-wide Monday's Herald Sun newspaper regardless. Races were not  broadcasted and no one had access to the results at obscure meetings until the results were published in  Monday morning's paper.

A group of punters set up this rort by betting with any SP they could find. They would bet on only one horse on the day at an obscure country meeting, such as Albury. Their bets were minimal so not to attract the notice of each SP.

This was the sting  : Even if the horse had not won at the Albury meeting  in the Monday's metropolitan  edition of the paper it was printed as the winner with the SP of the real winner, due to a " printing mistake" made by a compositor at the paper, who just happened to be in on the rort.
The only "mistake" in the metropolitan  edition of the paper was the winner's name, everything else matched up. As not  to arouse suspicion the "mistake" was only made in the Melbourne metropolitan edition of the paper and not in the country edition, which was delivered to Albury where  the "mistake" would have been apparent to locals in Albury.

This rort went on an irregular basis for quite a time and no one was any the wiser,the small bets did not attract attention of SPs and they did not even have to enter a horse in the race they simply changed the winner's name to the horse they placed their bets. To capitalize on their bets the "winning race" was usually won by an outsider.

Offline Bubbasmith

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« 2019-May-10, 10:54 AM Reply #15 »
My last two posts have been fleecing SP bookies, does anyone know of any rorts the SPs got upto fleece punters ?

Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2019-May-10, 12:11 PM Reply #16 »
The last thing the SP bookies I knew would do would be to fleece punters.

They had to live in the community so their lives would be a misery if their fleecing was discovered.

These were bookies who bet on credit.

Maybe the blokes who bet in pubs for cash were different as they were probably a bit more transitory.   

Offline Bubbasmith

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« 2019-May-10, 02:18 PM Reply #17 »
JWH, maybe they relied on their franking credits to cover the punters who 'took the knock ". :shy:


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