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Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2017-Jun-24, 07:04 AM Reply #225 »
Personally I couldn't care less about Betfair. Charge them 5%.

Unless you are drooling over the terminal in the last few minutes before they jump it is next to useless.

If all states turned around and charged them 5% then we can send one corporate bookmaker packing back to England. One less competitor.  :bulb:

They have never seemed interested in putting in for the costs of running racing. I remember Andrew Twaits carrying on when he was in charge at Betfair when the Racefields court case was on. They took it all the way to the High Court to try and get out of paying their fair share - and lost.

They welched on me for a lousy $100 once - never forgotten that. I've returned well over $100 in "free publicity" since  :lol:

Offline Gintara

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« 2017-Jun-24, 04:08 PM Reply #226 »

Unless you are drooling over the terminal in the last few minutes before they jump it is next to useless.


Wrong PP


They have never seemed interested in putting in for the costs of running racing.

My eyes must have been playing up then, all those signs dotted around racetracks must have been freebies then  :chin:

The last thing we won't is to lose competition.  :bulb:

PV showed total contempt for the greyhound industry, he deserves to be called to account for his spin & bullshit.  :whistle:

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2017-Jun-25, 09:38 PM Reply #227 »

Running Betfair out of town will in time be shown to be the silliest thing RNSW ever did.

The only thing Betfair offered was a fair go for punters -- any bet to win matched by a bet to lose.

What is wrecking racing is the high prizemoney  and paying losers to go for a run -- it becomes too lucrative to 'get one ready' or 'set one up' and too easy to smoke it in under the radar in a race likely to be unfairly crowded.

If 'connections' were more dependent on recovering costs from placing winning bets, any smoking behaviour would be more evident before the last few minutes of betting and the number of acceptors would be less in deference to the expected betting market.

Tighter control of the disclosure of training routines -- al la HK and SG -- would also assist the management of integrity: as is, in Australia, there is a standing invitation to rort the system.

Australia is now an outlier in terms of the relative weight of rubbish racing run -- and the number of addicts is dying out.


Offline Peter Mair

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« 2017-Jun-26, 08:28 AM Reply #228 »

The case for taxing Betfair on gross profit and not gross turnover could hardly be better put than this:

Racing NSW chief executive Peter V'landys made the most interesting point in his response to Betfair's complaints about the hike in race fees and its statement that it would have to raise its maximum base rate to 10 per cent because of the impact.

"In 2008, when the 1.5 cents charge was initially introduced, corporate bookmakers who have sustainable business models were generating a profit of 6 cents in every $1 bet on NSW thoroughbred race meetings. They are now generating, on average, 12 cents profit on every $1 bet on NSW thoroughbred meetings," V'landys said


Put differently, the tax rules for race betting in Australia are written to benefit the corporate bookies, that deal only with losers, and the professional syndicates knocking off the TAB pools.

Please give Betfair , and punters generally, a fair go -- tax its gross profit not its turnover.

Offline nemisis

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« 2017-Jul-10, 05:49 PM Reply #229 »
Worth a listen to the Verdict on RSN this morning.

With V'Landy's taking a "well earned holiday", it was left to Darren Pearce to sell Sydney spring to the Victorians.
(at least we didn't have to listen to the word participants used a hundred times)

Gets a bit heated and I'm probably biased but I'll give the debate to the Vics.

For mine what's wrong with Sydney racing was on display Saturday.
The big betting drift and subsequent performance of Collateral surely would have most punters asking, why you even do this.

Online wily ole dog

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« 2017-Jul-10, 07:02 PM Reply #230 »

The only thing Betfair offered was a fair go for punters -- any bet to win matched by a bet to lose.

That must be close ti the silliest thing you've ever posted here.
God almighty, you bang on about insider trading and knowledge yet betfair milks that very thing for every cent. It gives a home to the crooks that you squeal about but I guess that's toooo logical an argument for you

Online wily ole dog

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« 2017-Jul-10, 07:06 PM Reply #231 »

The big betting drift and subsequent performance of Collateral surely would have most punters asking, why you even do this.

Cant agree mate, the betting drift was because the horse was at a stupid price during the week and drifted accordingly.  Personally, I left it out of my trifecta. didn't like it at all after that last run

Offline Dave

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« 2017-Jul-10, 07:28 PM Reply #232 »
People who complain about Collateral did not look at the big pic, he is trained by a Chemist, he had other shortpriced stablemates run even worse...........and the trainer was on holidays! If you backed Collateral or Your away you got what you deserve for not doing your due diligence, they were great lays.........and I don't lay horses......silly me

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2017-Jul-10, 10:16 PM Reply #233 »


Betfair made every punter a bookmaker -- one wins / one loses: that's fair!

Running Betfair out of town will in time be shown to be the silliest thing RNSW ever did.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2017-Jul-11, 12:49 AM Reply #234 »
Worth a listen to the Verdict on RSN this morning.

With V'Landy's taking a "well earned holiday", it was left to Darren Pearce to sell Sydney spring to the Victorians.
(at least we didn't have to listen to the word participants used a hundred times)

Gets a bit heated and I'm probably biased but I'll give the debate to the Vics.

For mine what's wrong with Sydney racing was on display Saturday.
The big betting drift and subsequent performance of Collateral surely would have most punters asking, why you even do this.

Interesting  :chin:

Why is it incumbent upon Darren Pearce or Peter V'Landys to "sell" the Sydney spring to the Victorian media.   :what:

And what is "wrong" with Sydney racing? Collateral? Is that the best you can do?

With major Cobalt cases still being outstanding, the entire RVL board being dismissed, internal criticisms about Victorian racing funds being spent on buying media rights for SA racing with no obvious return, the chief steward having his front door shot up, Danny Nikolic, Bill Vlahos, a Harness racing industry with all sorts of integrity issues - have I missed anything? - we could only wish for the "interesting times" that are happening south of the Murray.

Collateral? You really are scraping the bottom of the barrel there mate. Is that the worst thing that is wrong with us   :lol:

Noted that a lot of Victorian trainers that don't have stables up here are often starting their horses in Sydney of a Saturday - Darren Weir had 7 the other day. You rarely see the other way around (Waller has a permanent table setup in Melbourne unlike trainers like Corstens, Oliver, etc who are regular visitors without permanent stables).

Why don't RSN ask them if they think there is too much wrong with Sydney racing  :chin:

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2017-Jul-11, 01:06 AM Reply #235 »
Another "gong" for V'Landys?

Nominations In NSW Go Through The Roof

The huge number of nominations in New South Wales during the past week offers a prime indication that racing is flourishing in the ‘premier state’.

For the seven days commencing from last Monday’s Taree meeting (3 July) to this afternoon’s Wagga and Grafton programs, there were 13 professional race meetings programmed. Each of those meetings attracted more than 100 nominations; from 114 nominations at Muswellbrook last Tuesday to today’s Grafton meeting that received a massive 194 nominations.

Veteran statistician, Gowan Williams, said: “I cannot remember seeing more than 100 nominations for every single professional meeting in this State for a very long time. In all there were 2039 nominations and that equated to an average of 157 per race meeting.”

And further good news for NSW racing came in the form of an announcement by Racing NSW on Thursday. The Everest race meeting on Saturday 14 October will coincide with a two-year anniversary of the launch of the hugely popular TAB Highway race series.

The Board of Racing NSW recognised the milestone by adding a $200,000 Anniversary Highway race to the card of the inaugural The Everest raceday.

“Saturday October 14 will be an historic event for thoroughbred racing in Australia and will reinforce Sydney’s positon as a leading global event city,” said Racing NSW Chairman, Mr Russell Balding AO.

Grand Proposal, trained by Neville Layt, won the inaugural TAB Highway Handicap back in October 2015 beating Invienna and Onemoregypsy when ridden by Winona Costin. The first five horses in that event went over the line within a length of each other, setting a precedent for many exciting and close finishes in the two years of Highways since.


http://www.racingnsw.com.au/latest-news-display/Nominations-In-NSW-Go-Through-The-Roof/23263

Country racing has never been stronger in NSW and that assists in making healthier rural economies.

Gotta say though that the field sizes at the provincial meetings at places like Gosford still seem to be small.

$30k for each race tomorrow and only 5 stayers turning up for the 2100m Race 1  :chin:

Probably only a matter of time before the astute Victorian and Queensland trainers cotton on to this.

Offline nemisis

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« 2017-Jul-11, 07:45 AM Reply #236 »
Interesting  :chin:

Why is it incumbent upon Darren Pearce or Peter V'Landys to "sell" the Sydney spring to the Victorian media.   :what:

And what is "wrong" with Sydney racing? Collateral? Is that the best you can do?

With major Cobalt cases still being outstanding, the entire RVL board being dismissed, internal criticisms about Victorian racing funds being spent on buying media rights for SA racing with no obvious return, the chief steward having his front door shot up, Danny Nikolic, Bill Vlahos, a Harness racing industry with all sorts of integrity issues - have I missed anything? - we could only wish for the "interesting times" that are happening south of the Murray.

Collateral? You really are scraping the bottom of the barrel there mate. Is that the worst thing that is wrong with us    :lol:  

Noted that a lot of Victorian trainers that don't have stables up here are often starting their horses in Sydney of a Saturday - Darren Weir had 7 the other day. You rarely see the other way around (Waller has a permanent table setup in Melbourne unlike trainers like Corstens, Oliver, etc who are regular visitors without permanent stables).

Why don't RSN ask them if they think there is too much wrong with Sydney racing  :chin:
You should listen to the debate PP7.

What surprised me was RNSW's blatant disregard of the national pattern committee.
It sounds very selfish to me.

I don't bet a lot in Sydney because there is too many races that have a smell to them.
The betting on Saturday told us that Collateral was never going to win that race and plenty knew.
Is Victoria any better? ......maybe.....maybe not.

Victorian racing just interests me more.




Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2017-Jul-11, 10:21 AM Reply #237 »
You should listen to the debate PP7.

What surprised me was RNSW's blatant disregard of the national pattern committee.
It sounds very selfish to me.

I don't bet a lot in Sydney because there is too many races that have a smell to them.
The betting on Saturday told us that Collateral was never going to win that race and plenty knew.
Is Victoria any better? ......maybe.....maybe not.

Victorian racing just interests me more.

Well good luck to you betting on Victorian racing mate. Hope you don't go broke   :lol:

I had to tip at the Echuca meeting yesterday in the tipping comp in 10 races. The first favourite won then a procession of 9 failures by favourites, some of them really miserable failures and they appeared to go backwards many lengths on form. One race was won first up by an 8yo who had never won first up before in his career.

Unless you are laying favourites I can't see how you can make money out of Victorian racing. Those oversized fields on tracks that have some question marks over them. What about Flemington on Saturday? That was a much bigger deal to me than Collateral. If your horse wasn't one or two off the rails in the last 200m it was "in the glue".

Official flucs for Collateral we

$3.20/$4.20/$4.40/$4.60

I've seen much worse than that.

Collateral has always been a run on horse.

On Saturday he was last at the 800m

Start before he was last at the 800m

Start before that he was 7th of 11 at the 800m

He was ridden for the first time by an inexperienced apprentice - I don't want to bag the guy because he is learning his trade but if you look at his riding record he doesn't get that many mounts and I reckon there is a reason for that that is not related to anything illegal

http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/JockeyLastRuns.aspx?jockeycode=MTgxNDE4ODk5Mg%3d%3d

As I said, scraping the bottom of the barrel  :no:

Can you tell me another race that was, in your's and the Victorian media's opinion (it should be stressed) that was dubious?

Racing NSW and the integrity of it's stewards leads the way in Australian racing. Have done so since they recruited "The Sherrif" all those years ago.

Offline nemisis

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« 2017-Jul-11, 10:24 AM Reply #238 »
What a difference a day makes.

Very comfortable for Darren Pearce on Racing NSW's publicity arm, Sky racing this morning.
Pattern committee doesn't get a mention and not a curly question in sight from "Coshee"

Sky must love their compliant commentators.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2017-Jul-11, 10:31 AM Reply #239 »
What a difference a day makes.

Very comfortable for Darren Pearce on Racing NSW's publicity arm, Sky racing this morning.
Pattern committee doesn't get a mention and not a curly question in sight from "Coshee"

Sky must love their compliant commentators.

There was probably no mention of the Pattern Committee because it is a non-issue. Fake news invented by the Victorian media to redirect attention off their own integrity issues.

There is no "flagrant disregard" for the pattern committee. If there was then the Group  classifications wouldn't be observed by NSW, and they are.

Having said that, people should be allowed to express an opinion about what races should be graded at what level.

My opinion is that both NSW and Victoria are being very generous to other states who appear to be allowed to maintain Listed status on races where the prizemoney has fallen below that of a standard Saturday Sydney or Melbourne race but you will never ever get the negative nellies in the Victorian media calling for some recognition given to that fact  :no:

Offline nemisis

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« 2017-Jul-11, 10:41 AM Reply #240 »
Well good luck to you betting on Victorian racing mate. Hope you don't go broke    :lol:  

I had to tip at the Echuca meeting yesterday in the tipping comp in 10 races. The first favourite won then a procession of 9 failures by favourites, some of them really miserable failures and they appeared to go backwards many lengths on form. One race was won first up by an 8yo who had never won first up before in his career.

Unless you are laying favourites I can't see how you can make money out of Victorian racing. Those oversized fields on tracks that have some question marks over them. What about Flemington on Saturday? That was a much bigger deal to me than Collateral. If your horse wasn't one or two off the rails in the last 200m it was "in the glue".

Official flucs for Collateral we






$3.20/$4.20/$4.40/$4.60

I've seen much worse than that.

Collateral has always been a run on horse.

On Saturday he was last at the 800m

Start before he was last at the 800m

Start before that he was 7th of 11 at the 800m

He was ridden for the first time by an inexperienced apprentice - I don't want to bag the guy because he is learning his trade but if you look at his riding record he doesn't get that many mounts and I reckon there is a reason for that that is not related to anything illegal

http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/JockeyLastRuns.aspx?jockeycode=MTgxNDE4ODk5Mg%3d%3d

As I said, scraping the bottom of the barrel  :no:

Can you tell me another race that was, in your's and the Victorian media's opinion (it should be stressed) that was dubious?

Racing NSW and the integrity of it's stewards leads the way in Australian racing. Have done so since they recruited "The Sherrif" all those years ago.
The best way to manipulate a race is by pace.

Bring a favoured front runner down by pressuring it.

Bring a favoured backmarker down through lack of pace.
 Seems like a lot of people knew there wasn't going to be a lot of pace on Sat.

Can't agree about the stewardship PP7.
Ray Murrihy had been asleep at the wheel for quite sometime.
I don't think he knew how to handle "Wallerism".

After the weekend I am broke anyway.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2017-Jul-11, 11:00 AM Reply #241 »
What is "Wallerism"?  I suppose if we have "Wallerism" we must also start talking about "Weirism"  ;)

Both men have got where they are through hard work and being adept at what they do and do not deserve non-specific accusations from the public.

Back on Collateral, your implying that the race was rigged because of the slow pace. What are you saying. That we should assume that every race where there is a slow pace is rigged?

Do you or your mates down south have any corroborating evidence for that outrageous accusation?

No mention of the rise in weight. No mention of the change from a senior jockey to an apprentice. No mention of the fact that there was no pace on paper (commented on before the race and probably the main reason the horse eased in the market).

Bottom of the barrel mate. Things must be going OK in Sydney if that is the best that people can come up with. That is nearly as bad as the "too much prizemoney" criticism we often see.

Let's be brutally frank here.

Victorians, and in particular their racing media, have their noses out of joint because of The Everest, and the fact it is being run on the same day as the Caulfield carnival.

But trying to say that Sydney racing is rigged with vague references to Chris Waller is a bit "below the belt" fighting if you get my drift. Especially from a state where they have all sorts of integrity issues (refer threads titled Sal Perna, Cobalt, Bill Vlahos, etc, etc.)

If you have a criticism of Sydney racing, by all means go and knock yourself out and make them in a clear and concise way.

But that Collateral rubbish being peddled? Please  :no:

Offline nemisis

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« 2017-Jul-11, 11:35 AM Reply #242 »
 For sure compare "Wallerism" to "Weirism" ...no difference.
Hard workers......no question.

It's  more the fact of the power they have over the industry.
 
 As racing battles to have the same sort of relevance it once had, it is clear that  the racing industry only wants good publicity.

Racing NSW's demands it........Who wants to under the control of bullies?

Doesn't the betting on that race suggest a bit of a smell to you?

BTW I live 80km from Sydney.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2017-Jul-11, 12:16 PM Reply #243 »
Mate my final word. I'm on holidays relaxing and getting ready to go to the wonderful two day carnival in Grafton Wed/Thurs.

There was no "smell" to the Collateral race to me whatsoever. I could probably go and find a similar betting drift in Victoria on Saturday but cannot see the point. This to me is a non story.

Also, I don't believe that Racing NSW is putting good PR above everything else. In fact, if they were then there would not be threads such as this one and all the rocks being thrown at PVL.

Not only is he doing a fantastic job in running racing in NSW (cue my mate Gintara or jfc to refute that), but this siege mentality from the Melbourne Racing clubs, RVL and the media is all misplaced. They seem to think that there is some huge following of anti PVL followers and they can downgrade the status of The Everest by some sort of public ridicule of the CEO and false (implied) allegations of rigged races.

But on the ground in NSW PVL is extremely popular in wide circles, especially country racing and in the Macquarie media.

All this negative stuff is wasted breath. If RSN, Bruce Clarke, racing.com, RVL whoever want to throw rocks at PVL then go and knock yourself out fellas.

If it is a war (and I don't think people in NSW think they are at war - this is the siege mentality at work) then the old quote from Napoleon seems apt- "never interrupt your enemy while he is making a ,mistake"   :lol:

Offline nemisis

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« 2017-Jul-11, 01:14 PM Reply #244 »
Have a good holiday PP7.

You have plenty of respect from me on here.

Just can't always agree.

Online sobig

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« 2017-Jul-11, 03:03 PM Reply #245 »
Just a point on the claim that the pattern committee should have had input into the NSW spring changes,

Their guidelines allow a group race to be changed by up to 2 weeks with no pattern change.

As no races involved are at this stage looking for pattern changes there is no need for the committee's involvement.

Offline Gintara

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« 2017-Jul-12, 07:36 AM Reply #246 »

What surprised me was RNSW's blatant disregard of the national pattern committee.
It sounds very selfish to me.



Selfish & PV / RNSW go hand in hand.

You only had to listen & see his actions during last years greyhound debate to know that. He was a vulture circling dead carcass.

Stuff you Jack, we're alright was alive and well emthdown

Online jfc

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« 2017-Sep-13, 06:14 AM Reply #247 »

Can't find any other details about this curious claim.

Anyway,

Turnover is misleading. All it means is migration from Totes to Corporates continues.

Revenue rises probably mean increased Rakes for Premium programs that attendees stay away from in droves.

As well as dudding government morons to take money away from schools and hospitals in favour of providing facilities for any collar criminals to socialise and abuse substances.

Online jfc

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« 2018-Aug-18, 12:59 PM Reply #248 »
On 10 @1330 today.

V'landys to yak on about his favourite subject.


https://www.ebroadcast.com.au/tv/detail.php?id=23324096&fta=1&fox=0

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Aug-18, 01:28 PM Reply #249 »

Anyway,

Turnover is misleading. All it means is migration from Totes to Corporates continues.


But he is commenting on the rise in turnover on NSW racing as the head of Racing NSW.

You must be confusing him with the head of TABCorp or perhaps the NSW Racing Minister  :chin:

If the government needs more money for schools they should bring a Point Of Consumption tax or something like that...oh hang on....

V'Landys and Racing NSW are totally unrelated to the Government and TABCorp.

They represent the industry participants including the lowly paid stable workers as discussed yesterday on the Victorian Racing news thread.

This is just more of your anti V'Landys guff that had it's genesis out of him winning the court case against Betfair all those years ago. If you were genuine in your concern for "hospitals and schools" you would also criticize RVL for doing the exact same thing but we all know that you are being disingenuous  ;)


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