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Thoroughbred Racing Talk => Racing Talk => Topic started by: Bubbasmith on 2014-Jan-28, 08:05 AM

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2014-Jan-28, 08:05 AM
In the Australia Day awards Peter V'Landys ,CEO of Racing NSW, received the award Order of Australia for services to racing.In an interview on RSN this morning he went on the front foot when asked by host. Shane Anderson, wheher he thought a reduction in deduction rates was justified in view of the migration of punting away from racing to sports betting. Without hesitation V'Landys responded "no"  because all "us " punters lose 20% on our turmover ( where he plucked that figure I do not know, but I will leave you to reach your own conclusion ) and  the only beneficiaries of any reduction in the commission rates would be professional punters, who according to an earlier statement he had made in  the interview " had inside information".

If this bloke can get a gong for his confused reasoning there is hope for us mere mortals. :shy:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: whispering on 2014-Jan-28, 09:45 AM
exactly what has he done to deserve it?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Gintara on 2014-Jan-28, 08:01 PM
Trumpeted to anyone that would listen how much funding he secured for the 'participants' (that word again)  :shutup:

Still I reckon a straw poll would show that the majority would believe they have seen little of the rivers of gold flow  :rolleyes:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2014-Jan-29, 07:53 PM


What did PVL say   -- is there an internet link to a record of the interview, please?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Gintara on 2014-Jan-29, 07:59 PM
Did you even try to find it? Or do you just expect to be spoon fed everything .....
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Gintara on 2014-Jan-29, 08:02 PM
http://www.rsn.net.au/downloads

One of the 28th Jan's on 'Racing Ahead'

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2014-Jan-30, 07:54 AM


The jury is still out on PVL -- premature awards to on-the-job executive officials raise concerns

Thank you for the link to an interview that few would either be aware of or where to find it -- this interview is not posted on the RacingNSW web site. It is significant that there was very little mainstream racing media coverage of this award.

There are no indiscreet questions -- but there can be indiscreet and inappropriate answers.

Accordingly, my primary concerns with this 'gong' are first that the apparent emphasis on 'how much he raised for racing' surely has more to do with who gave the money and why -- rather than who simply asked for it.  Levy legislation was drafted on instructions approved by cabinet which similarly approved proposals for the other grant 'expenditures'.

On that score, it is surely the responsible politicians and departmental advisers that are entitled to the credit (or the blame). One corollary of that concern is, of course, that honouring the questioner deflects criticism from the answers given -- from the process that decided NSW racing was entitled to such lavish additional funding from the public purse.

Whatever, the flow of additional public money to racing in NSW in recent years has been simply astounding:  asking for it is one thing, the giving of it is where the focus should lie  -- and time should be allowed to consider the benefit, or not, of the expenditure before it is applauded by the wider community.

One might also ask who nominated PVL for this accolade and what was said then and by other nominated referees.

On a different tack, but equally important, PVL is never held properly accountable for the answers he gives to sensibly predictable questions. The RSN interviewer was well briefed, and competently persistent, but, short of an outright dismissal of the sense of PVL's answers, not much more could be done on air.

The related worry is that no one goes back to dissect the answers and expose any fallacious reasoning  -- and this is not the first time -- evidence given to public inquiries has been similarly of concern, transcribed for all to see but left unremarked.

Astounding as this may be, it is also indicative that no insider beneficiaries of the unholy monopolistic alliance running racing want to open the box -- to expose the genies that see punters and owners routinely exploited with varying degrees of brutality disguised by a deceptive line of patter.

For just one example, the apparently accepted misuse off the word 'quality' in relation to the racing product being delivered daily would leave a George Orwell speechless.

There is a very evident discontinuity between PVL's competence in explaining the policy decisions and his applauded role in driving a fund raising campaign that leaves others astounded.

The eventual expose of the nonsense inherent in Australian racing nationally will presumably await some federally sponsored public inquiry -- but the national calamity in the industry needed to deliver that is still some time off.

In the meantime one would be sensibly wary of applauding those deemed responsible for the current pyramid building excesses.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: toltrice on 2014-Jan-30, 01:59 PM
Thank you for the link to an interview that few would either be aware of or where to find it -- this interview is not posted on the RacingNSW web site. It is significant that there was very little mainstream racing media coverage of this award.

exactly what racing media do you listen to and read?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: whispering on 2014-Jan-30, 04:45 PM
wasnt on the front page of racenet?


also he said punters wouldnt know the diff between 20% and 30% commission, that lower takeouts help the pros only... what a joke racing is that this guy has a job
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2014-Jan-30, 06:50 PM


Understanding honorifics -- a report on Ninemsn [ with my bolding] is illustrative



Racing NSW CEO recognised with award                              [Caryl Williamson, Ninemsn Jan 26 2014]


In a decade at the helm of the NSW racing industry, Peter V'landys has overseen some of the most tumultuous events to strike the sport.

The chief executive of Racing NSW has been recognised for his efforts to ensure the future of the state's industry, including the delivery of a rescue package during the equine influenza (EI) outbreak, and the successful court battle over race fields legislation.

V'landys has been appointed a Member of Order of Australia (AM), something he describes as "surreal".

The unprecedented infiltration of EI into Australia via inadequate quarantine procedures in August 2007, shut racing down in NSW and Queensland and closed the border with Victoria.

During a time of uncertainty, V'landys negotiated a $235 million rescue package with the federal government to enable stables to remain open and horses to continue to be trained, ensuring an income for the 50,000 participants.

"It meant the horses were kept fit and when racing came back we were ready to go," V'landys said.

"I remember the day of the first meeting back so well, December 1st. It was one of the most rewarding days I have spent on a racecourse - just to see the horses back and racing."

Then prime minister John Howard has congratulated V'landys on his AM.

"... I particularly recall the crucial advice he provided to my government at the time of the equine influenza outbreak in August 2007," he said.

"Peter's advice profoundly influenced my government's response, and as a consequence what could have become a real disaster for the industry was avoided."

V'landys led a protracted legal fight to gain product fees for the industry under race fields legislation, eventually winning the battle to ensure corporate bookmakers paid for access to NSW racing, guaranteeing the industry $60 million a year.

V'landys said he owed his work ethic to his Greek migrant parents who settled in Wollongong where he went to public school before getting his Bachelor of Commerce at Wollongong University.

"I owe it all to my mother and father," he said.

"As migrants in a new country they worked 18 hour days to educate their children.

"I have loved racing since I was 10 years old and I am lucky to be working in the industry."

V'landys said he would spend Australia Day with his family, savouring his achievement.

"The only thing I've ever won before was best and fairest with the Under-13s Wests Devils rugby league team in Wollongong," he said.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: chuggers on 2014-Jan-30, 07:12 PM

Understanding honorifics -- a report on Ninemsn [ with my bolding] is illustrative



Racing NSW CEO recognised with award                              [Caryl Williamson, Ninemsn Jan 26 2014]


In a decade at the helm of the NSW racing industry, Peter V'landys has overseen some of the most tumultuous events to strike the sport.

The chief executive of Racing NSW has been recognised for his efforts to ensure the future of the state's industry, including the delivery of a rescue package during the equine influenza (EI) outbreak, and the successful court battle over race fields legislation.

V'landys has been appointed a Member of Order of Australia (AM), something he describes as "surreal".

The unprecedented infiltration of EI into Australia via inadequate quarantine procedures in August 2007, shut racing down in NSW and Queensland and closed the border with Victoria.

During a time of uncertainty, V'landys negotiated a $235 million rescue package with the federal government to enable stables to remain open and horses to continue to be trained, ensuring an income for the 50,000 participants.

"It meant the horses were kept fit and when racing came back we were ready to go," V'landys said.

"I remember the day of the first meeting back so well, December 1st. It was one of the most rewarding days I have spent on a racecourse - just to see the horses back and racing."

Then prime minister John Howard has congratulated V'landys on his AM.

"... I particularly recall the crucial advice he provided to my government at the time of the equine influenza outbreak in August 2007," he said.

"Peter's advice profoundly influenced my government's response, and as a consequence what could have become a real disaster for the industry was avoided."

V'landys led a protracted legal fight to gain product fees for the industry under race fields legislation, eventually winning the battle to ensure corporate bookmakers paid for access to NSW racing, guaranteeing the industry $60 million a year.

V'landys said he owed his work ethic to his Greek migrant parents who settled in Wollongong where he went to public school before getting his Bachelor of Commerce at Wollongong University.

"I owe it all to my mother and father," he said.

"As migrants in a new country they worked 18 hour days to educate their children.

"I have loved racing since I was 10 years old and I am lucky to be working in the industry."

V'landys said he would spend Australia Day with his family, savouring his achievement.

"The only thing I've ever won before was best and fairest with the Under-13s Wests Devils rugby league team in Wollongong," he said.


Another Wollongong fellow...great people they are....

 :beer:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Feb-01, 06:51 AM
For the last decade both Corporates and Sports have been gaining ~10% annually over Tabcorp et al.

Sports would be way bigger if ever the draconian restrictions were ever to be lifted.

That's before we ever consider unlicensed betting facilities.

He rabbits on about Vanuatu.

While facilitating Northern Vanautu. Aka Isle Of Man.

He shafts the rank and file punter even more with usurious Rake Hikes.

While reducing Rakes for the Leviathans.

Because he's too dumb to realise that there's no need for such largesse, as the pests would still keep crushing markets here regardless!
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2014-Feb-01, 07:34 AM


When did John Howard start taking an interest in NSW racing administrators?

The idea that John Howard would volunteer support for a state racing administrator fired my imagination.
 
Connecting dots, in the presumably secret process of deciding national honorifics, many might see the hand of the federal coalition party establishment -- not least the Jesuit-educated mafia member and former LNP minister now ceo of the Australian Racing Board.

Presumably he can round up former and present prime ministers to support the cause.

It would be wonderful to see the official file on this matter -- and related emails.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Maximus on 2014-Feb-01, 08:04 AM
not least the Jesuit-educated mafia member and former LNP minister now ceo of the Australian Racing Board.

Just figured it might be legally prudent to remove any association to the previous post.  :chin:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Runway on 2014-Feb-01, 08:28 AM
Can I suggest some people take care in what they are saying - there are some claims that could easily be acted upon as they are baseless and more significantly likely libellous
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2014-Feb-01, 08:58 AM


Read -- Jesuit-educated-mafia  --- as I am sure you did.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2014-Feb-01, 09:04 AM


...........and from a simple google:

Jesuit Mafia

People that attended a Jesuit school and receive job opportunities and favors from another who attended a Jesuit school. It is a known common practice in the Northeast, as well as California. Schools noted for their Jesuit Mafia connections include Georgetown, Marquette, Boston College, Loyola Marymount, Santa Clara, University of San Francisco, Gonzaga, Xavier, and Creighton.


Try to keep your eye on the ball
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Maximus on 2014-Feb-01, 09:36 AM
And this one... :sweat:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Runway on 2014-Feb-01, 10:05 AM
Hi Maximus

Did you read Jesuit -educated - mafia or Jesuit-educated mafia.

Funny how just a little '-' can change the whole  intent.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Runway on 2014-Feb-01, 10:07 AM
Just figured it might be legally prudent to remove any association to the previous post.  :chin:

Very smart move I'd say
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Gintara on 2014-Feb-01, 10:09 AM

Try to keep your eye on the ball

  :lol:

As opposed to what? Like you having never seen the ball?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Sunliner on 2014-Feb-02, 05:36 PM
http://www.thedogs.com.au/NewsArticle.aspx?NewsId=4739

I wonder if there might be a re-think on gross profits Vs turnover tax after seeing it action?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Maximus on 2014-Feb-02, 06:57 PM
Hi Maximus

Did you read Jesuit -educated - mafia or Jesuit-educated mafia.

Funny how just a little '-' can change the whole  intent.

Hi Runway, sorry just caught up with your post. Yep the strategically placed "-" makes all the difference!
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: whispering on 2014-Feb-02, 07:02 PM
so he would spend money on a lawsuit over something on the internet.

how about actually doing something. another job for the boys. gets a medal for  :censored: ing us rank and file punters.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2014-Mar-03, 01:48 PM


APOLOGY TO PETER V’LANDYS


I have been asked, and so agree, to cease making defamatory statements about Peter V’landys in any online or other forum and to post the following apology on this forum (www.racehorsetalk.com.au) where the statements appeared.

I previously made some statements criticising Peter V’Landys in his role as CEO of RacingNSW.
Those statements were without foundation. I wish to sincerely apologise to Peter V’landys for any hurt or embarrassment my statements caused him, and I acknowledge the good work he continues to do as CEO, as well as his many contributions to the racing industry for which he so deservedly received the Order od Australia.


Peter Mair
3 March 2014

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Gintara on 2014-Mar-04, 07:27 PM
Asked or demanded?  :whistle:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: chuggers on 2014-Mar-04, 07:53 PM


APOLOGY TO PETER V’LANDYS


I have been asked, and so agree, to cease making defamatory statements about Peter V’landys in any online or other forum and to post the following apology on this forum (www.racehorsetalk.com.au) where the statements appeared.

I previously made some statements criticising Peter V’Landys in his role as CEO of RacingNSW.
Those statements were without foundation. I wish to sincerely apologise to Peter V’landys for any hurt or embarrassment my statements caused him, and I acknowledge the good work he continues to do as CEO, as well as his many contributions to the racing industry for which he so deservedly received the Order od Australia.


Peter Mair
3 March 2014



Yes Peter you are out of order....but you have been that for a long Time and you did not listen ....so we silence from now....that would be the right thing.

 :beer:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: pin on 2014-Mar-04, 09:11 PM
I put him on ignore ages ago.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-13, 07:41 AM
"I wept uncontrollably when, now, the adult Peter, warned against the sins of taking gambling on the horses seriously, and took pains to point out that no one gets rich from what is known as punting."

An interesting snippet while I was trying to locate transcripts of the interview in question.

And only found it just now.

With such mind-boggling displays of his suitability for being awarded honours, V'landys has certainly set the bar extremely high, for anyone attempting to lessen his reputation even further.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/superracing/plunging-on-sports-affecting-race-betting-increasing-chance-of-levy-for-corporate-bookies/story-fnii0mrv-1226816117607

http://racingbitch.wordpress.com/2014/01/30/the-resurrection-of-peter-vlandys/
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2014-Mar-13, 11:42 AM
Just noted that it's been 10 days since peter mair posted anything. Has he gone to ground deliberately or pushed under?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Lert on 2014-Mar-13, 02:44 PM
Nah, just been told "unless you have anything good to say............."
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Gintara on 2014-Mar-13, 08:51 PM
Nah, just been told "unless you have anything good to say............."

RNSW don't take kindly to those who question  :/
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Authorized on 2014-Mar-13, 11:16 PM
I hope Peter Mair hasn't given it away.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: DCL on 2014-Mar-14, 04:52 AM
V'Landys has always had a litigious mindset. When he worked at Harold Park he often had multiple court cases on the go.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-14, 07:43 AM

Earlier this week I opened a curious-looking letter.

From someone claiming to act on behalf of Mr Peter V'Landys.

Near the top was:

PRIVATE & CONFIDENTIAL

I suspect that, like me, many here would not have known what that means. Now that I've taken simple steps to find out, it appears to border on meaningless, and I'm puzzled why anyone would even waste time stating that.

Now while I have no intention of currently publishing the full contents, I'm referring to certain parts of it here, as I believe doing so is in the public interest.

Immediately preceding that above line was:

NOT FOR PUBLICATION

I have idea what that could possibly mean, considering that there is no signed contract agreeing to observe such an edict.

But now it gets really weird .

Because the letter also has a demand to immediately publish certain paragraphs of the NOT FOR PUBLICATION letter!

Curiously the text of those paragraphs is identical to the key paragraphs Peter Mair has spammed in his recent posts!

What a coincidence!

There is also a request to confirm "this requirement" by 4pm on 14 March 2014.

I'll spare you the details of the "or else" in the next sentence.

No rational person can consider a demand to publicly lie, to be a requirement!

This may take some time to play out, so I intend to keep things on a need to know basis.


Note that the "immediately" clause of that demand has not been obeyed.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-14, 11:48 AM
Let's try approaching some of V'landys' oft-repeated claims with facts.

In stark contrast to his way.

Latest Fact Book claims NSW Tote turnover was $2628 million.

Now consider parliamentary kickback arrangements.

For leviathans the government receives 10% of Tabcorp's Rake. With a guaranteed minimum of $11 million.

So it's safe to assume that Rake exceeds $110 million.

Assume the Rake is ~20%.

so Turnover from that segment exceeds $550 million!

Is Peter V'litigator trying to have us believe that anyone (let alone everyone) in that segment is unaware of Rake hikes!

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/nswbills.nsf/0/6b1f1465da29d9b8ca2577e40017cc65/$FILE/LA%2013210.pdf
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: whispering on 2014-Mar-14, 11:54 AM
jfc a physical letter?  more details in how it was they got your address wouldnt go astray as I would assume he gathered this info legally
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-14, 11:58 AM
jfc a physical letter?  more details in how it was they got your address wouldnt go astray as I would assume he gathered this info legally
Yes a physical letter that I extracted from my letterbox.

Now while the rest of your question is interesting, it would be inopportune for me to comment further right now.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: DCL on 2014-Mar-14, 12:44 PM
jfc, do you know how the letter writer became aware of your identity ?

I can't recall if you have to give your name, when you join this group.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: JWesleyHarding on 2014-Mar-14, 12:51 PM
I hear they became aware of jfc's indentity by purusing the guest list for forthcoming  nuptials of David Walsh and Kirsha Kaechele. 
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-14, 01:04 PM
jfc, do you know how the letter writer became aware of your identity ?

I can't recall if you have to give your name, when you join this group.
I certainly did not disclose my name in the registration process.

According to my account info, anyway.

If someone here gave me up, then at least I can be sure it wasn't Eddie Hayson.

As with Whispering's question these are interesting developments that all of you might be well advised to ponder.

But if the associated dire threats were as intimidating as those that led Mair to exceed even his own extremely high bar of deranged ranting, I hope you'll understand that I should decide for myself what and when I disclose.

After all V'landys did previously win some junior Rugby award so on that can hardly be considered a pushover.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-14, 01:07 PM
I hear they became aware of jfc's indentity by purusing the guest list for forthcoming  nuptials of David Walsh and Kirsha Kaechele. 
Probably easier than that.

Given how much V'landys and Zeljko appear to have a mutually beneficient agenda,  wouldn't surprise me if they have a hot line.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-14, 01:56 PM
Further to V'landys' observation as to how price sensitive punters are.

Again from the Fact Book.

About (brace yourself) good ole' Tote Tasmania.

Contrast Tote Turnover 3 years back when the Tasmanian Tugger was in full swing, with the most recent full year following the kickback-free reconstruction.

2011 $662 million
2013 $124 million

$538 million vanished, undoubtedly predominantly in sympathy with kickbacks.

That's not far off the estimated leviathan turnover of $550 million for Tabcorp NSW.

V'landys is off course on record as railing against Tote Tasmania. A few years after I broke the story here and elsewhere.
 
So it would be interesting how Sir Peter could justify his legendary mantra, were it ever to be tested in a judicial environment.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: MagiC~* on 2014-Mar-14, 05:59 PM
Is this the only forum you and Peter Mair visit JFC ?

As you can probably guess, we don't have any of the information needed to identify you through this forum and from a personal point of view, I wouldn't have the fuzziest idea as to who you are or where you are from.

Would be very hard to identify you from this forum, so seems quite strange.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-14, 06:23 PM
Is this the only forum you and Peter Mair visit JFC ?

As you can probably guess, we don't have any of the information needed to identify you through this forum and from a personal point of view, I wouldn't have the fuzziest idea as to who you are or where you are from.

Would be very hard to identify you from this forum, so seems quite strange.
About the only other Forum I visit these days, is the Betfair one.

So I agree with your implication that something is strange. It's something that certainly has occupied my attention.

Maybe time will tell?

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-14, 06:51 PM
In the interests of not misleading or playing silly buggers with anyone perhaps I should add that in my 20 years of Internet agitation I personally have received similar threats on 4(?) other occasions, and successfully stood up to them all.

As a consequence I have made acquaintances with seasoned participants in that rat race and learned further stuff you would not read about.

While I'm confident I can maintain my clean sheet, time will tell.

So I'm not asking anyone here questions, agree with the significance of the questions being raised, but intend keep certain intelligence to myself until an appropriate opportunity.

If anyone can't stand the suspense maybe you can brush up on some intrigue here (my primary research source):

http://tenplay.com.au/channel-ten/the-good-wife

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: DCL on 2014-Mar-14, 09:45 PM
Maybe they just googled, Zelko -  axe to grind, and your name miraculously appeared.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-15, 06:17 AM

I'm confident that these researched estimates err on the conservative side:

      100 = Tabcorp Premium Punters
1,000,000 = Active Punters

So the Premium proportion is 1:10,000 - or 0.01%

Yet this 0.01% is responsible for over 20% of Tabcorp NSW's Tote turnover!

Of course this could be verified by

Tabcorp
NSW government
or V'landys

But I don't suggest you hold your breath.

Since such a disclosure could completely wreck the industry.

Leaving aside his Victorian counterpart Saundry's contradiction for now, consider Murrihy's quip about growing turnover in Turkey despite a 40% Rake.

That seems to be equivocation.

Kinda' the truth, but nothing like the whole truth.

And an obvious ploy to butter the plebs up for a Rake hike.

By contrast V'landys continuing theme that punters are oblivious to Rakes so slug 'em for every last cent, is certainly not the truth.

Neither can it be morphed into anything resembling the truth.

But manifestly it has been overwhelmingly ridiculed and condemned by punters who voted with their hip pocket.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2014-Mar-15, 07:43 AM
Good luck with your battle, jfc :beer:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-16, 07:33 AM
http://www.markxdavies.com/2010/07/30/peter-vlandys-interview/

From what I can gather V'landys claims that 100% of jockeys and owners support him, but these trainers that carried the no confidence motion are as dumb as us punters.

Until now I though that 100% of the media supported him (because that's what they are paid to do) but live and learn.

----

RNSW is being seen as stubborn rather than principled. If the industry continues to be dogged by uncertainty, lack of money and now lack of confidence then the damage being caused may be so debilitating that the sport and industry will be permanently maimed. People will not invest in an industry that appears to be regularly at war on all fronts.

Racing everywhere in Australia is being marginalised, coverage shrinking, interest dwindling. It is losing punters to other forms of wagering as well as gaming. There will come a tipping point for racing in NSW where the damage done by holding out will make it impossible to hold on even if the cases and controversies fall in favour of V'Landys and his board. That will hurt the sport and business not just in NSW but around the country.

Brinkmanship is a game won not by the heart but by the head. V'Landys, his board and NSW racing are on countdown.

Courtesy of PATRICK SMITH of THE AUSTRALIAN, 21/07/2010

http://www.trackdata.com.au/Story.asp?Id=1473

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Arsenal on 2014-Mar-16, 12:38 PM
I wonder if the object of this thread subscribes to the theory that any publicity is good publicity......my recollection is that his persistence in getting the race fields legislation up resulted in a massive windfall to RacingNSW.......not that you would know that from reading the articles way back in 2010. :whistle:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: whispering on 2014-Mar-16, 12:40 PM
For his mates arsenal. What luck that IADD gets purchased right before announcement of a 4mil target in sydney for him
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-16, 01:42 PM
I wonder if the object of this thread subscribes to the theory that any publicity is good publicity......my recollection is that his persistence in getting the race fields legislation up resulted in a massive windfall to RacingNSW.......not that you would know that from reading the articles way back in 2010. :whistle:
Given how important words might turn out to be in this saga, perhaps the accurate way to refer to V'landys is subject rather than object. Alternatively protagonist.

Anyway I did hunt down the latest Annual Report.

Made the mistake of not reading it back to front (as sceptics recommend), and got so confused with the glossies that about the only thing I gleaned is that if V'landys ever needs a double, Runway would be first cab off the rank.

Need to get more intoxicated before having another go.

But I suppose the loss of over $6 million is a good starting point.

http://www.racingnsw.com.au/site/_content/document/00001099-source.pdf
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2014-Mar-16, 02:08 PM
Given how important words might turn out to be in this saga, perhaps the accurate way to refer to V'landys is subject rather than object. Alternatively protagonist.

Anyway I did hunt down the latest Annual Report.

Made the mistake of not reading it back to front (as sceptics recommend), and got so confused with the glossies that about the only thing I gleaned is that if V'landys ever needs a double, Runway would be first cab off the rank.

Need to get more intoxicated before having another go.

But I suppose the loss of over $6 million is a good starting point.

http://www.racingnsw.com.au/site/_content/document/00001099-source.pdf

I got as far as page 2. I don't read documents that contain "Vision" and "Mission Statements".

What was it that Oscar Wilde said about the subject?

"Ambition is the refuge of the failure".   :lol:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-17, 06:30 PM
I got as far as page 2. I don't read documents that contain "Vision" and "Mission Statements".

What was it that Oscar Wilde said about the subject?

"Ambition is the refuge of the failure".    :lol:  
I certainly paged away from the glossy sections pronto.

However part of that Vision Statement should be of interest to all
"

Vision

....
Maximise betting turnover on nsw
thoroughbred race meetings by
accommodating punters’ needs and
desires,
and work with Tabcorp to
promote new wagering products that
reflect changes in demand.
"


Feel free to search that document for punter to find how V'landys himself is planning to achieve that.

My bet is one punter operating out of the Isle Of Man considers his needs and desires kinda' accommodated, but I'd be surprised if he won't be demanding and needing more.

If anyone knows of any other punter who's experienced needs and desire being accommodated by V'landys' mission please clue all of us in.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Arsenal on 2014-Mar-18, 07:45 AM
We have to give credit where credit is due on any measure V'Landys deserved his gong...God Save The Queen. :beer:
 From the CEO's report. :thumbsup:
The victory in the Race Fields’ case and accompanying
revenue enabled Racing NSW to increase prizemoney
from July 2012. This provided the most significant across
the board increase ever to prizemoney in NSW, with total
NSW prizemoney increasing by $28.8 million for 2012/13.
This increase enabled:
●● A 50% increase for Country racing with every race at
TAB meetings increasing from $10,000 to $15,000;
●● A 21% increase for Saturday Metropolitan meetings
taking races from $70,000 to $85,000;
●● Races at Metropolitan mid-week meetings increasing by
30% from $27,000 to $35,000. These were increased by
a further $5,000 to $40,000 per race from July 2013;
●● Races at public holiday Metropolitan meetings were
increased by $7,750 per race to $50,000 from July 2013;
●● Provincial races increasing by between 42% and 46%
to $22,000; and
●● Races at Country Sky2 race meetings increasing by
60% to $8,000 per race and races at Country non-TAB
meetings increasing by 71% to $6,000 per race.
In addition a new policy saw prizemoney paid down
to 10th place so as to offset costs incurred by owners in
having their horses presented for race meetings.
These prizemoney increases saw returns to owners in
2012/13 increase from $147.6 million to $173.3 million.
Also boosting returns to owners for 2012/13 was
another strong year for Racing NSW’s Breeder Owner
Bonus Scheme (BOBS). Total bonuses paid to winning
owners including BOBS Double Up were $10.6 million, with
BOBS continuing to be the most lucrative of any Australian
State bonus scheme.
Despite the increase in prizemoney that have taken
place from July 2012 and July 2013, racehorse owners in
NSW collectively bear deficits of $170 million in the costs
(this does not include the cost of acquiring the horse) of
having horses trained for competition compared to their
prizemoney return. The extent of this ‘subsidy’ from
owners continues to be the most pressing strategic issue
facing the industry and its longer term viability.
Racing NSW is working stridently to improve the
funding of the NSW Thoroughbred Racing Industry to reduce
the net costs for owners of participating in racing.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: fours on 2014-Mar-18, 08:32 AM
Arsenal,

Can't see why 'he' gets the gong.

Surely the legal teams advice was the key and they should get the gong if anyone does!

Handing out money is a relatively simple task any monkey can do!

Fours
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Arsenal on 2014-Mar-18, 09:06 AM
V'landys is the Man ...Fours ......has put NSW so far in front ...read the CEO report and see for yourself. :beer:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-18, 09:49 AM
V'landys is the Man ...Fours ......has put NSW so far in front ...read the CEO report and see for yourself. :beer:
This pair of racehorse owners featuring in today's news surely won't knock back the prize money bonanza:
------
The inquiry also promises to show again that Mr Obeid saw government as a business.

“You need to sack that bitch,” Eddie is alleged to have said to former Labor minister Phil Costa after Sydney Water boss Kerry Schott would not settle the contract with Australian Water boss Nick Di Girolamo. Then he travelled 60km with his son and Mr Di ­Girolamo to Narellan to put his sales pitch to Mr Costa.

One thing that stands out after yesterday is despite all that has been said and written about corrupt politicians in NSW in the past few years, some of the senior public ­servants in the government bureaucracy did their job in protecting the public.

Ms Schott deserves a ­bravery award for the way she pushed back on Mr Di Girolamo and Mr Obeid, against all manner of pressure.

Mr Watson also told of how Mr Di Girolamo spent the more than $1 million a year he was paying himself.

One avenue was to “settle debts between he and John Rippon (a fellow AWH director) including money owed in relation to a racehorse”.

The horse’s name?

Partners in Crime”.

http://www.news.com.au/national/federal-assistant-treasurer-arthur-sinodinos-job-under-enormous-pressure-after-latest-icac-allegations/story-fncynjr2-1226857484729
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: arthur on 2014-Mar-18, 09:57 AM
Three things you can say about a lot of people who make the news for all the wrong reasons . .

They have no shame

They have huge egos

And, they share a keen sense of humour   :lol:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-18, 05:26 PM
Accidentally stumbled on this cornucopia of gems.

Where in one of them we learn, according to V'landys.

Because the majority of punters who do not know takeout rate,

It follows that they don't know the difference between 4% and 14%!

http://ausrace.com/pipermail/ausrace/2008-December/004670.html



Note, I certainly confess to being on of those who doesn't know the takeout rates.

Might have something to do with Tabcorp not publishing Rake hikes!

And removing any trace of them wherever it can.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-19, 06:11 AM
I had to manually transcribe the material below from the bizzarre non-text pdf.

Anyone, like me, unaware of Allen Windross, his apparent reputation or connection to V'landys or relevance to this matter can easily check for themselves.

------

16 percent average aggregate maximum take-out

The legislation change will see increased funding flow from TAB to NSW racing if Tabcorp can persuade punters to move away from bets such as Quinella that have rates set below 16 per cent towards bets such as Trifecta that have rates set above 16 per cent.

Historically this move has proven most difficult to achieve.

ftp://203.15.71.20/olgr/pdfs/Allen%20Windross%20submission.pdf
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-20, 04:28 AM
If anyone can lead me to the actual V'landys paper that is at the heart of Max's bizarre article, I would certainly appreciate it, as I would not want to apportion blame to the wrong party. For reasons that probably need no explanation.

Anyway let's start with something resembling facts, considering their obvious source:

All Codes NSW Turnover $000

2013 4077
2012 4273
2011 4565
2010 4813

Not sure which year is being discussed, so let's assume 2011, and make simple adjustments if necessary to check validity.

Now V'landys is quoted as effectively claiming the the combination of Corporate and Professionals win 35% of $1 billion.

$350 million

and that is 6 - 7% of their turnover.

That range is close enough to 1/16.

So that turnover is ~$5.6 billion!

Or 123% of the 2011 Total!
116% of 2010!

Renowned mathematical genius Allen Windross gave that analysis the thumbs up.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/corporate-bookies-latch-on-to-mug-punters-gravy-train-20140220-333oc.html
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: J.Glenoban on 2014-Mar-20, 01:57 PM
A favourite Peter V'landys memory of mine is when he appeared at the Productivity Commission's gambling inquiry in 2009.

Old mate Pete took it upon himself to explain to the commissioners just how these funny things called betting exchanges worked.

Naturally hilarity ensued.

'The biggest illusion in my eyes is a betting exchange. In the court, I was stunned in the evidence to find that punters on a betting exchange only get 80 per cent back of their turnover.
So basically it means there's a margin on a betting exchange of 20 per cent, but that 20 per cent doesn't go the racing industry or Betfair, it goes to the person that's on the other side of the bet which is called the layer.

Now, the layer, from what we understand, is either a bookmaker or a professional punter, so basically any recreational punter that's going through a betting exchange is only getting 80 per cent back of his turnover.

To equate that to a corporate bookmaker who's got a 6 per cent margin, he would have got 94 per cent back if he went through the bookmaker, and if he bets through the tote, on a win bet which has got a 14 and a half per cent deduction, he would have got 86 per cent back or around that mark.

So you can see that a recreational punter who's using a betting exchange is actually paying the highest possible margin of 20 per cent.'



http://www.pc.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0014/93200/20091201-sydney.pdf (page 177)
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-20, 02:27 PM
Thank you

That link has set me straight, just when I was beginning to think I'd scraped the bottom of the barrel.

I've started on that lengthy document and it did not take me long to have this quote excerpt from my former constant correspondent Chris Murphy resonate:

'Pig in Lipstick'

Just tried finding the originator whom I'd guess was around the Samuel Pepys era, but the spam circus has suffocated it.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-20, 03:58 PM
After struggling through various passages of that epic, I decided to check the Betfair screens.

In stark contrast to V'landys' choice it actually displays the Market %'s on the Betting page.

What do I find on a Thursday?

102.8%
101.9%

How on earth can you get those figures up to 125% (or 20% Rake) as V'landys is claiming!

At this rate he'll front the penal system before me.






Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-20, 05:32 PM
A favourite Peter V'landys memory of mine is when he appeared at the Productivity Commission's gambling inquiry in 2009.


'The biggest illusion in my eyes is a betting exchange. In the court, I was stunned in the evidence to find that punters on a betting exchange only get 80 per cent back of their turnover.


I am having so much difficulty moving on from this.

Was our spin doctor formerly known as Praiseworthy asleep at the wheel, to let such a revelation get buried when there was so much highly successful anti Tabcorp ads aired in the media?

Or if this was false why is V'landys not joining Frank Hardy's great grand-daddy?

And why is Frank's Power without Glory impossible to dismiss from my perspective?



http://unionsong.com/u139.html

A song that deserves a youtube entry - but no cigar.


Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-20, 05:43 PM
Correction

Thought John Williamson had the commercial version, still:

Gary makes a fair fist of it:



And here's my compatriot from the State of Excitement, the boy from Bassendean, Rolf:

Kudos for that:


Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: whispering on 2014-Mar-20, 09:02 PM
how can he have the top job in nsw
how does he get rewarded while not knowing anything about the industry.


really shocking he has a job. seems like no one cares if racing does well
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-21, 06:24 AM
Easiest way to find the snippet is search for Powerplays, V'landys' bizarre mispronunciation of Tabcorp's offer.

I'm amazed that no one there picked him up on his apparent basic ignorance of key marketing techniques.

Obviously none of them shop at my local ALDI.

When it opened, the location was a ghost town on weekends.

Within a year I literally could not get near it, due to the overwhelming patronage.

Also you have to wonder what possessed Tabcorp to renew its NSW Tote agreement, with V'landys in charge of RNSW.

MR V'LANDYS (RNSW):
...

The big difference between Tabcorp's contractual obligation and
corporate bookmakers is that we do have control over Tabcorp's pricing because
Tabcorp has to ensure our total financial benefit out of the contract. If they reduce
the price, say, of a take of a win bet from 14 and a half to 5.9 per cent, we can sue
them,
because they've taken a commercial action which affects our income.

Now, I can tell you straight off the bat that the Powerplays, that they did, when
they reduced it from 14 and a half per cent down to 5.9 per cent take-out did increase
turnover, no doubt about that, but it drastically reduced revenue. Now, we're in the
throes of maybe now taking action against Tabcorp for reducing their price which
commercially has been to our detriment. So there are protections with our
contractual obligation on the gross profit.
 
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: whispering on 2014-Mar-21, 09:58 AM
How does turnover increase but revenue decrease when they are pretty much the same thing
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-21, 10:48 AM
How does turnover increase but revenue decrease when they are pretty much the same thing
It's hardly the same thing, but V'landys' claim that revenue decreased is not hard to challenge.

Prior to his reincarnation Runway challenged me about my theory, but my punting existence would be rapidly extinguished if I make too many mistakes in assessing punter behaviour, so I'll stand by this.

While initially it may seem insane for Tabcorp to make offers bordering on loss leaders, the wisdom behind that can be deduced once you consider the broader picture.

The overwhelming percentage of punters are net lifetime losers. I imagine 99% is erring on the side of kindness.

Anyway that leads to plenty of near dormant accounts.

Particularly as the reality check of having to refill your account, or endure another shellacking from your other half is far from pleasant.

So such Crazy Tabcorp offers will reinvigorate those dormant accounts.

Because even V'landys concedes that punters know the difference between 5.9% and 14%.

Say those punters feed $1000 into their accounts because they correctly understand it's a great deal.

Not all of them are going to blow all of that.

And nearly all of that retained money will be reinvested at the standard Rake.

So the weighted average of those investments might be close to 10% than the original 5.9%.

And 10% of something is vastly superior to:

14.5% of SFA

But, aw shucks, I never did get any of that there book learning that the productivity commissioners enjoyed.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: whispering on 2014-Mar-21, 11:31 AM
depends on what context but the terms are interchangeable in some countries and businesses
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: fours on 2014-Mar-21, 01:12 PM
Whispering,

You seem to be forgtting the role of rebates in the net figures.

The Tas tote was a disaster on turnver versus revenue relativities.....

Personaly I'd be wanting to have a very close look at the bonus clauses for those who approved the rebates for the Z man. Did they feather their own nest at the expense of 'shareholders'?

Fours
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-21, 01:24 PM
Personaly I'd be wanting to have a very close look at the bonus clauses for those who approved the rebates for the Z man. Did they feather their own nest at the expense of 'shareholders'?

Fours
Did the new Papal head of the economy give sermons sprinkled with AFL anecdotes when officiating at Miracle Mike's private chapel?

Also, I was intending to use the Tote Tasmania case study as a textbook slam dunk on the key distinction between turnover and revenue.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-22, 07:31 AM
In that document the expression professional punter occurs 9 times, uttered only by V'landys I believe.

Remembering that the audience is clearly unfamiliar with punting, why did he not define that term?

I certainly have no idea what that means, my guess is someone who pays taxes on punting income. Fletcher recently testified the opposite.

Tabcorp does not require you to disclose whether you are one, so how on earth can V'landys know what this class do?

So perhaps all that testimony is irredeemably flawed?

But V'landys goes into some sort of codswallop essentially equating that class with corporate bookmakers.

For example consider his quote below and if anyone can make any sense of how you can equate the 2, please clue the rest of us in.

---

So how is the professional punter, low-margin operator exploiting the recreational punter and the racing industry?
Corporate bookmakers, the new people into the market, are basically now offering a new product called Tote Odds, which is not a new product because tote odds have been around all the time.

blah blah blah
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-24, 06:54 AM
In that extraordinary inquiry where V'landys makes extraordinary allegations there is regular use of the expression "free riding", but no definition.

Even claims the corporates are committing that act, which is clearly false. Corporates are subject to corporate regulators and pay the prescribed fees and taxes.

But when you think about it the biggest offender might actually be the NSW government. What on earth is it actually doing to deserve its massive cut?

And obviously Zeljko is also right up there on that score, and many other damaging ones.

So what exactly is RNSW doing to stop that?


Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-25, 05:08 AM
Just when our protagonist seemed to have gone eerily quiet, up he pops with another gem.

Clearly antagonising another segment.

Rather than licensing vets who are already regulated, what's happened to Murrihy's far more intelligent suggestion of licensing so-called commission agents.

The folk who funnel off any amount of Racing NSW revenue to unlicensed outlets. Some off shore. Some to criminals. Some to a nearby hip pocket.

The folk whose biggest clients might actually be racehorse owners, whom V'landys is currently trying to canonise.

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8819185
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: DCL on 2014-Mar-26, 08:34 AM
Could we possibly see " Sir Peter ", when the next group of knighthoods are announced.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-26, 09:41 AM
Could we possibly see " Sir Peter ", when the next group of knighthoods are announced.
He's certainly distinguished himself in discharging his duties as high commissioner.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Mar-30, 06:38 AM
Still no follow up missive from V'landys' legal eagles.

All very confusing.

Why wait so long before taking action in the first place?

And what purpose is this next delay?

All that suggests is there was never any intention to institute legal proceedings.

But surely that's not legal?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Apr-07, 07:44 AM
Punters Show part 2 - 2/2/14

Emails featuring our discussion on the Peter V'landys interview on Melbourne radio last week

Video posted: 03/02/2014


http://www.puntersshow.com.au/index.php?_a=videos&videoId=744
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2014-Apr-07, 09:34 AM
Punters Show part 2 - 2/2/14

Emails featuring our discussion on the Peter V'landys interview on Melbourne radio last week

Video posted: 03/02/2014


http://www.puntersshow.com.au/index.php?_a=videos&videoId=744


Thank God the f. cicadas shut up after 2 minutes.

Can I ask who the 3 gentlemen are? Mark Lambourne is the one in the middle?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Apr-07, 09:49 AM
Thank God the f. cicadas shut up after 2 minutes.

Can I ask who the 3 gentlemen are? Mark Lambourne is the one in the middle?
Glenn Pollett on our right.

Dallas Baker on left.


Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2014-Apr-08, 10:51 PM
Glenn Pollett on our right.

Dallas Baker on left.


Don't take this the wrong way mate, but I wouldn't buy a raffle ticket off those three if they were selling them in the pub, let alone take their advice on how to run the racing industry.

The term "yobbo know-it-alls" comes to mind  :nowink:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Dave on 2014-Apr-08, 11:16 PM
PP one thing you can say in defence of the Punters show....you may question their ideas but you can't question their passion for the racing industry........unlike most who are in charge of racing.........they do not have an agenda.......other than to improve racing........it is not about self interest(again other than for the betterment of racing and Punters)of course they have products to sell, they're surnames are Pollet, Baker and Lambourne, they are not from the Smith family.....they need to make a living.....I have never purchased any of their products so I cannot comment on their worth.....but you can't blame them for spruiking....christ it is better than listening to that used car salesman Dean (where do ya get it) Watt............ what an annoying/obnoxious voice that man has, not only wouldn't I buy anything from him.....I would not take it as a gift.....but that is another story
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2014-Apr-08, 11:33 PM
Fair comment Dave

But these three bag the christ out of V'Landys (he did say a couple of silly things but they go over the top), and then say that he cannot "represent the punters" because he doesn't understand.

Then you have a look around the web site and one of the products they are selling is tips from Robbie Waterhouse for $55 (Lert will love that one   :lol:  ).

I know they have got to pay the bills, but to start selling tips from a bookie - geezus - last bloke I know that paid for tips from the bookie is now on skid row. I would think even Peter V'Landys could see that that isn't in the punter's interest.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Dave on 2014-Apr-08, 11:58 PM
well you may say.....that taking tips from Robbie is akin to throwing your money away......I do not necessarily agree with you there, I reckon if you have to buy tips from anyone ....not just Robbie.............maybe you should be looking for another hobby.......anyone whose hobby is golf doesn't give his clubs to someone else to go and play a round for him ......and pay them for it.......then feel like it was worth the money buying a set of Golf clubs and he has had an enjoyable game of golf.........does he??.......So why is punting any different?? If you have to pay for tips(from anyone) or even if you are getting them for free then you are doing it purely for the money and you are losing for 2 reasons.......the first you are bloody greedy............second you are even lazier than you are Greedy! Now Baker and co may believe in their products and that they will help the needy and greedy(and lazy) most of their products I believe are information based as opposed to just tips, Robbie is only giving tips for the Carnivals anyway and it is not really fair to pick out that one product to make a point in why they have no credibility..........Vince Arcadi and Marc Lambourne etc have different services that are info based and you can use them how you see fit to form your own opinion, similar with the MYM, I am not vouching for any of their products as I have never paid for anything like that(other than buy form guides etc).....before the WWW made paper form Guides redundant

I just love their (Punters Show)unbiased and unabashed fear nothing approach, sure I don't agree with everything they say but at least it is THEIR opinion and not a bought and paid for opinion.....I do not like some of Glens racist remarks but they are said in jest, he doesn't mean to offend anyone but I can accept that he has a right to his opinion and and respect that he is far from Politically correct, it is that attitude from all at the Punters Show that earns respect with me
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2014-Apr-09, 12:23 AM

I do not like some of Glens racist remarks but they are said in jest, he doesn't mean to offend anyone but I can accept that he has a right to his opinion and and respect that he is far from Politically correct,

You can say that again Dave.

Can we discuss some specifics on the subject they chose i.e. massive spray for V'Landys.

I think their philosophy that "the punter is the customer of Racing NSW" deserves more attention. There are more customers than just the punter. They fail to mention any other industry participant in their rant.

There are a lot of participants in this industry, especially in rural areas, who receive a subsistence wage for much of the year. Who goes into bat for these people? Well you'd hope it would be Administrative bodies like Racing NSW.

With a couple of recent initiatives by Racing NSW, like billing corporates on turnover and selling Trackside, you can actually see them redistributing the cash back into the industry. There has been a significant and long overdue rise in Country and Provincial racing prizemoney as  a result of these initiatives.

V'Landys is painted as some sort of devil because he got some extra money out of the corporates and Betfair for the body he represents, Racing NSW, and by proxy, the NSW racing industry participants. I can understand why people with a vested interest, like corporates, Betfair and big punters would be upset at this, but they should cop it and move on. Stop the whinging. It has been about two years now FFS.

Truth is, punters have never had it better. I dare anyone to come on here and honestly say that punters are worse off than they were when I started up - late 70's. That is bullshit. The only people I see in public saying that punters are being "ripped off" are either corporate bookmakers, or those who are "professionals" (or claim to be). So in other words, those who would be significantly financially better off if they lowered the take out or operated on profit, not turnover.

We all don't like paying tax but you have to.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Dave on 2014-Apr-09, 11:26 AM
whoa there boy, I haven't mentioned V'landy's, yet.......I certainly wasn't sticking up for their opinions only for the fact that they are THEIR opinions, all the other "vested" interests in racing have their own associations/Unions that should be looking after them.....who actually is in charge of looking after the punters? As for raising bush prizemoney.....just remember old King Midas and what happened to him when he was granted the "Midas Touch" at first he thought it was great to have all the gold he wanted......there are consequences......someone like Waller/Waterhouse will go after the prizemoney once it gets high enough to make it worthwhile to open stables all around the State/Country, they are no longer just trainers, they have employed the Henry Ford system of a production line "System" and the rest of the participants may get even less.......Just look at the fields for the Country Cups........not a lot are won by Country trained horses................the moral of the story is .....be careful what you wish for

I do agree with you that punters have never had it so good.....but what has any of that got to do with V'Landy's.... he chased the big Bookies away to the Northern Territory in the first place, all he has done is repair some of the damage that HE caused......the bookies were paying full freight to the racing industry for nearly 200 years before VL chased them away and forced them to go elsewhere, he has no idea about the psyche of punters, he thinks they are all idiots and treats them that way,  after all they do fund the whole industry, don't they? Woolworths/Coles have many other participants too but the business all revolves around what the customer wants first, that way all the "participants" get to split the profits,

I really wasn't discussing the merits of Glen/Dallas/Marcs opinions only the fact that they are passionate and believe what they are saying unlike most of the general racing media who must toe the company line

that is my last word on this subject
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Apr-09, 11:49 AM
I really wasn't discussing the merits of Glen/Dallas/Marcs opinions only the fact that they are passionate and believe what they are saying unlike most of the general racing media who must toe the company line

A key interesting point from that episode was Lambourne's views about how stitched up the racing media is.

His views have weight considering he formerly was part of that media scene.

I certainly endorse those views, as from my perspective my punting improved immensely once I learned who that media was really looking after.

No relatively honest objective observer can swallow the media sycophantic tripe about V'landys.

The alternate media (occasionally experienced here) do get a look in sometime, and that has far more weight.

He appears to have succeeded in silencing Mair.

Who even cares!

But his identical tactics have made me more vocal.

And if the past is anything to go by, apropos Zeljko, there might be other media henchmen tempted to pick up more Walkleys by shining the blowtorch of reality in V'landys' direction.


Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Apr-09, 01:25 PM

As if anybody needed to be reminded of the credibility of the honour bestowed on V'landys.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Apr-10, 08:53 AM
More hot air from you know who.

$10 million prize money boost?

Why?

To make squillionaires richer?

To increase the fields by ~zero?

To heighten the experience further for the substance-abusing party crowd?



http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/big-investment-in-championships-20140409-zqspo.html

http://www.4hi.com.au/article/alan-jones-peter-v%E2%80%99landys

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Norton on 2014-Apr-11, 07:19 AM
So you are not stepping out to Randwick tomorrow JFC?  Bloody great day of racing, despite what you might think of the organisers.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Apr-11, 07:50 AM
So you are not stepping out to Randwick tomorrow JFC?  Bloody great day of racing, despite what you might think of the organisers.
V'landys appears to have forgotten to send me a complimentary Oaks Lawn Marquee package, making that a deal breaker.

In case some are unaware, Tabcorp closed the Randwick High Value Room 18  months back, permanently moving the Hub to Granville. All those former patrons now have to bet from their home premises.

So if I did actually go to Randwick I would not be able to have a bet.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2014-Apr-11, 02:42 PM
I am presently reading the book "Flashboys" written by Michael Lewis , which is about High Frequency Traders ( HFT ) ripping millions by trading on Wall Street at the expense of banks, hedge funds and mum and dad investors. The HFTs operate trading in microseconds and nanoseconds  .To put that in prospective, trading orders travel at 465 microseconds , or 1/200 of the time it takes you to blink your eye.

Why I draw this attention to this High Frequency Trading is that  I am concerned that certain privileged punters could be using this technology to scan TAB computers before placing bets at the expense of all other punters, not only to identify "overs", but to receive those obscene kick backs.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Arsenal on 2014-Apr-11, 09:19 PM
Any chance of you JFC suing  them for giving him the Gong ...causing you heartburn dyspepsia and frequent indigestion difficulty in swallowing the propaganda.   :lol:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Apr-12, 12:12 PM
Any chance of you JFC suing  them for giving him the Gong ...causing you heartburn dyspepsia and frequent indigestion difficulty in swallowing the propaganda.    :lol:  
Many a true word spoken in jest.

I just switched on 7's coverage.

And already had to mute it, given the unmitigated V'landys-inspired clap-trap.

As well as the social butterfly bovine twang.

A masterstroke in turning even more punters off.

Provoking personal applications as suggested with more to boot.


Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Apr-17, 04:31 AM
And he's back in full swing.

Doing the only thing he knows how.

Trying to convince idiots in power to squander more of our money to be redirected to rich cronies who don't really need it, but like the idea extending thei distance from the have nots.


http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/racing-nsw-boss-peter-vlandys-praises-visionary-barry-ofarrell-20140416-zqvgc.html
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-11, 07:17 AM
Hopefully no one needs me to draw a picture why the 2 bold clauses are very bad news for punters, the racing industry and NSW in general:

------------------


HERE are two good reasons Racing NSW didn’t attend last week’s Asian Racing Conference in Hong Kong.

Firstly, Racing NSW and Honkers haven’t seen eye to eye since jockey Chris Munce was re-issued his jockey’s licence. Hong Kong spat the dummy because Australia showed him too much love after he was found guilty over there for tipping winners. Boo hoo, Honkers.

The second reason was Peter V’Landys and John Messara met with the new Racing Minister, Troy Grant, for the very first time this week, with the meeting said to be extremely positive.

While the Druitt St posse were not present, the Australian Turf Club sent three members, including chairman Michael Crismale, with the trio impressed with the feedback about The Championships.

There was a heap of stuff discussed at the conference. The most interesting yarns were told each night as the internationals knocked back copious amounts of Tsingtao.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/superracing/at-the-track-legendary-jockey-jimmy-cassidy-gives-biggest-hint-yet-he-is-considering-retirement/story-fnii0mrv-1226913031227
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-12, 08:36 AM
Hopefully no one here is assuming that V'landys' relentless pursuit of me (paid for out of your Rake) has ceased.

I elaborate when I'm in a position to do so.

Now, while I never interfere with anybody's right to free speech, you should all be aware if some of your related posts end up having consequences, you have only yourself to blame.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-12, 08:43 AM
Meanwhile consider this bombshell!

This is beyond belief.

Bookies' fees increase, but switch away from the turnover model!

That very model V'landys fought for stridently with his inimitable oratory!

When the hell are they going to get this right!

Right now, words fail me.

http://www.afr.com/p/lifestyle/sport/horse_racing_bookies_fee_increase_zlWmPOA38WvQXdFku0KXTP
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-13, 05:30 AM
“Our chief steward Ray Murrihy visited the stable after we received some information, which proved to be creditable, and he has launched an investigation,” Racing NSW chief executive Peter V’landys said.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/creditable

Our word for today.

Its antonym is deplorable, which somehow springs to mind.

Does Wollongong have its own dialect, akin to Catfish Row where the Gullah language was spoken?

http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/2277051/nathan-tinkler-facing-probe-after-shifting-patinack-stock-from-john-thompsons-stable/?cs=12
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: J.Glenoban on 2014-May-13, 12:28 PM
Is it Wikipedia or Linkedin, sometimes it's hard to tell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_V'landys
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-13, 12:54 PM
Is it Wikipedia or Linkedin, sometimes it's hard to tell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_V'landys

 :spam: This article reads like a news release, or is otherwise written in an overly promotional tone. Please help by either rewriting this article from a neutral point of view or by moving this article to Wikinews. When appropriate, blatant advertising may be marked for speedy deletion with {{db-spam}}. (January 2014)

I dips my lid to you once more for that gem!

For the record, to my knowledge all interfaces between the pair of us have only happened in the public arena such as here. I have no clue who you are or have ever had any dealings with you.

Can't be too careful.

Sherlock Punting Jim could well be sleuthing here.

Is it actually legal to marry your own wife?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2014-May-13, 03:03 PM
:spam: This article reads like a news release, or is otherwise written in an overly promotional tone. Please help by either rewriting this article from a neutral point of view or by moving this article to Wikinews. When appropriate, blatant advertising may be marked for speedy deletion with {{db-spam}}. (January 2014)


Peter is ranked 40th of Sydneys most influential people

The Australian ranked him 22nd of the Top 50 Sports People

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_V'landys

 :o
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-13, 03:59 PM

Peter is ranked 40th of Sydneys most influential people

The Australian ranked him 22nd of the Top 50 Sports People

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_V'landys

 :o
His Hunters Hill near neighbour and fellow Order of Australia recipient Eddie Obeid probably outranked him.

Now, if you're into cartoons then go play some Trackside and fill V'landys' coffer.

But how about having the backbone to honestly state your position here?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2014-May-13, 06:34 PM
Has anyone ever sent V'landys an email on racing matters.

I did 8 weeks ago and still haven't had a reply
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Maximus on 2014-May-13, 06:47 PM
But how about having the backbone to honestly state your position here?

Hear hear!

Suspect PP is angling for a couple of free tickets to the Chairman's Lounge at next year's Doncaster - you've gotta understand we're dealing with the questionable standards of a Rooster's supporter here.  :nowink:

And as for cartoons - he used to bet on the Wacky Races as a kid. While Max stuck to fine citizens such as Peter Perfect, you couldn't keep PP away from Dick Dastardly and Muttley. Except for the time he backed the Arkansas Chuggabug because it reminded of him of the family milk truck!  :o
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-13, 07:42 PM
Hear hear!

Suspect PP is angling for a couple of free tickets to the Chairman's Lounge at next year's Doncaster - you've gotta understand we're dealing with the questionable standards of a Rooster's supporter here.  :nowink:

And as for cartoons - he used to bet on the Wacky Races as a kid. While Max stuck to fine citizens such as Peter Perfect, you couldn't keep PP away from Dick Dastardly and Muttley. Except for the time he backed the Arkansas Chuggabug because it reminded of him of the family milk truck!  :o

Are you sure you want to go down this expensive route in this increasingly litigious thread?


I reckon lawyers charge at least 5 times what I once did, and I actually tried to do stuff rather than toss off motherhood waffle.

As for inducements and repercussions, I'm not holding my breath about an automatic renewal of my Stilettos Platinum card.

I actually recently checked out the Roosters Club and was underwhelmed.

Is there anywhere in Sydney where you can get a decent serve of Liver and Onions at traditional prices?

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Maximus on 2014-May-13, 08:25 PM
I actually recently checked out the Roosters Club and was underwhelmed.

Well at least be thankful you got out of there in one piece - last I heard they were locking drunk Irish backpackers in the stairwell for days at a time!
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-13, 08:53 PM
Well at least be thankful you got out of there in one piece - last I heard they were locking drunk Irish backpackers in the stairwell for days at a time!
I was there maybe a decade back.

All seemed reasonable.

But where does this price gouging come from?

A Crown Lager not that far south of half a lobster!

Perhaps I should get out more often?

For same lobster I can pick up 2 4-5 litre wine casks.

Theme here?

I enjoy scumbag opponents coming a cropper. Priceless.

If you keep a hawk eye out for value you'll annoy your opponents.

Continue, and expect to knock them off. That would have to be an experience that won't go away.


Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2014-May-13, 09:35 PM
His Hunters Hill near neighbour and fellow Order of Australia recipient Eddie Obeid probably outranked him.

Now, if you're into cartoons then go play some Trackside and fill V'landys' coffer.

But how about having the backbone to honestly state your position here?


My position is that the shortcomings of Mr. V'Landys are grossly overstated by two sorts of people:

i) those bookmakers who were silly enough to take the racefields legislation all the way up to the High Court and lose (ouch!) - someone should tell them they lost and that they should go suck some eggs . Very soothing for the soul. And

ii) those so miserable they have programmed themselves to criticize every word uttered, not by just Mr. V'Landys, but those guilty by association e.g. TAB's, Racing NSW, John Messara, etc.

Both losing parties need to get over it. Or move on to something else. The impression from afar is one of Daffy Duck (bookies + misery guts) trying to tell the "in control" Bugs Bunny (Peter V'Landy's and Racing NSW) that they are "despicable".

image


Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2014-May-14, 02:43 AM
HERE are two good reasons Racing NSW didn’t attend last week’s Asian Racing Conference in Hong Kong.

Did John Messara get elected as Vice Chairman of the Asian Racing Federation in absentia?

Or has the anti Racing NSW crowd got it wrong (yet again).

Also his congratulations for Winfried Engelbrecht-Bresges doesn't seem to suggest that the rift continues.

Friday, 9 May 2014

Australian Elected Vice-Chairman Of Asian Racing Federation

Australian Racing Board - media release

ARB Chairman, John Messara AM, has been elected Vice-Chairman of the Asian Racing Federation (ARF) during the Asian Racing Conference underway in Hong Kong.

Mr Messara said that he was pleased to assume the role as international co-operation was important to the future of Australian racing.
"Racing is increasingly a globally integrated sport and Australia stands to benefit from being part of the fastest growing and dynamic racing region in the world. Wen have much to contribute to the sport internationally but also much to learn from others jurisdictions.” Mr Messara said.

Mr Messara offered his congratulations to Hong Kong Jockey Club CEO, Winfried Engelbrecht-Bresges, who was elected ARF Chairman to replace outgoing Chairman Dr Koji Sato after five distinguished years as Chairman.

"Dr. Sato has been a great friend of Australia and his period in office has been marked by the advancement of the ARF as a world influence on racing regulation and policy," Mr Messara concluded.

http://www.racingnsw.com.au/default.aspx?s=latest-news-display&id=15675
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-14, 09:23 AM
Did John Messara get elected as Vice Chairman of the Asian Racing Federation in absentia?

Or has the anti Racing NSW crowd got it wrong (yet again).


Then there were the Asian Racing Federation (ARF) elections; these have always taken place in a strange, distant way, like news from the front in a long past war. Engelbrecht-Bresges was elevated for the second time to ARF chairmanship, while John Messara, boss of Racing NSW, became a vice-chair, despite having somewhere more important to be during the conference.


http://www.scmp.com/sport/racing/article/1511391/plenty-talk-and-slapping-backs-wheres-news
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Arsenal on 2014-May-14, 10:02 AM
Possibly the office rotates that way they all get a turn at sitting in the spotlight.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-14, 02:19 PM
Has anyone ever sent V'landys an email on racing matters.

I did 8 weeks ago and still haven't had a reply
I posted this link before, but have now included the pertinent body, which may answer your question.

And contains oh so many nuances for me.

Looks like V'landys responded instantaneously that time.

Hard to imagine how an 8 week delay could be justifiable.

-------
And his reply was:

Mr Loveday
Thank you for your Email.
My comments were not meant to be disrespectful.
Our research shows that the majority of punters are unaware of the takeout
rates.
For example other than professional punters most did not know the takeout
rate for a trifecta.
I was presenting the facts and in no way was being critical.
Regards
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com [mailto:ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com]On
Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Thursday, 11 December 2008 10:47 AM
To: AusRace Mailing List
Subject:  [AusRace] Fwd: Can V'Landys really have said this?


Here's a copy of my email to him:

Mr V'landys,

I refer to your remarks reported thus:
-----------------------------------------------------

At the National Racing Conference in Sydney this week the keynote speaker
Peter V'Landys [sic], Chief Executive of NSW Racing,

told the assembly that wagering providers must change their business model
and charge the consumer more because after all the "punter doesn't

know the difference whether you are taking 4% or 14% out of his dollar".

-----------------------------------------------------

You make a mistake in assuming punters are as stupid as you - very few are -
so let me correct your ill-considered, arrogant insult.



Punters DO KNOW the difference.

http://ausrace.com/pipermail/ausrace/2008-December/004670.html

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: fours on 2014-May-14, 02:51 PM
Len = jfc?

Fooled me!

Mind you there are the small matters of geography and posting style, attitude and other things to contend with!

Fours
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-14, 03:06 PM
Len = jfc?

Fooled me!

Mind you there are the small matters of geography and posting style, attitude and other things to contend with!

Fours
What on earth could lead you to draw that conclusion?

I posted the link earlier.

This time I included the body as it seemed pertinent to Wiley's question.

And demarcated mine from others with

------------

Didn't you claim to have intellectual capabilities bordering on superhuman?

How does this inability to figure out a trivial situation as above support that claim?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: fours on 2014-May-14, 03:24 PM
jfc,

I do have abilities in some areas superior to the avergae person BUT only some areas. I have my share of failings elsewhere.

Skim reading has its failings... Len on the other hand not too many!

Fours
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-14, 03:38 PM
jfc,

I do have abilities in some areas superior to the avergae person BUT only some areas. I have my share of failings elsewhere.

Skim reading has its failings... Len on the other hand not too many!

Fours

I'm in no position to dispute that avergae people may hold you in awe, considering I don't know who or what they are.

But let me assure you I require absolutely no assistance whatsoever from you or anyone else in formulating my personal assessment of your apparent idol.

I certainly do not propose to ventilate that here.

So you may well die wondering.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: fours on 2014-May-14, 03:47 PM
jfc,

Happy with my own view of Len thanks from my own interactions with him in the horse race betting sphere. He is a better judge than I am.

Fours
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-14, 04:10 PM
jfc,

Happy with my own view of Len thanks from my own interactions with him in the horse race betting sphere. He is a better judge than I am.

Fours
Great,

now let's consider what I find astounding about that email exchange.

Anyone is free to disagree here, or exercise discretion. Up to you.

Personally, I cannot imagine a bigger insult than being called as stupid as V'landys' punter who can't tell the difference between 4% and 14%.

Would any punter here not feel defamed if that barb was levelled at them?

But isn't that what V'landys endured in that exchange?

Yet not only does he show no offence at that slight, but his future employee Runway subsequently lavishes hospitality on the accuser!

And that evidence has been publicly available to everyone for over 5 years!

Get my drift?


Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: fours on 2014-May-14, 04:14 PM
jfc,

I am not taking about Len's interaction with others.

Fours
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-14, 04:27 PM
jfc,

I am not taking about Len's interaction with others.

Fours
Surely someone of your professed intellect would realise that neither am I.

I'm more concerned with my self-interest or self-preservation.

I guess you'd know that triviality may be used as a defence in defamation cases.

And whether there was serious harm can be used to assess damages.

I'm wondering since that material was around for over 5 years, is that a benchmark against which additional harm might be measured?

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/da200599/s33.html
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: fours on 2014-May-14, 04:45 PM
jfc,

If, as you claim, you were truly worried about self preservation than you only need follow the punters advocate example.....

Fours
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-14, 04:52 PM
jfc,

If, as you claim, you were truly worried about self preservation than you only need follow the punters advocate example.....

Fours
If I did that I'd be lying.

As to Mair, I'm still at a loss why on earth he took my path.

Nothing defamatory from him, in my book.

You reckon I may not be truly worried about my self preservation.

So I'm dishonest, but fearless?

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: fours on 2014-May-14, 05:02 PM
jfc,

let me put it like this...

Len and I

you and Peter

peas in a pod

Fours
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-14, 05:10 PM
jfc,

let me put it like this...

Len and I

you and Peter

peas in a pod

Fours
What part of 'I do not propose to ventilate' is beyond your intellectual grasp!

After I go to the trouble of warning people not to inadvertently get caught up in an extremely serious issue, your vanity just can't cop the hint.

Time may tell which one of us is now playing with the fuller deck.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: fours on 2014-May-14, 05:16 PM
jfc,

You asked for that one with the hot air emanating from your corner!

I knew you'd like it....

Gotta go

Fours
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-14, 05:23 PM
jfc,

You asked for that one with the hot air emanating from your corner!

I knew you'd like it....

Gotta go

Fours
Facts are you chose to initiate this distraction.

Using skimming as a justification.

Now you are scarpering off.

With some deranged barb.

Tres gutsy.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Arsenal on 2014-May-14, 05:29 PM
A very entertaining  discussion ...it seems to me having observed and absorbed the exchanges leading to the threat of  defamation..... the defendant if he ever comes to be described as that ...which on the face of it seems unlikely....has nothing to worry about...the defence of triviality would /should take care of that ...and no sensible person would sue on the basis that the comments complained of were damaging...simply an opinion which is presumed to be strongly held. :beer:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-14, 06:02 PM
A very entertaining  discussion ...it seems to me having observed and absorbed the exchanges leading to the threat of  defamation..... the defendant if he ever comes to be described as that ...which on the face of it seems unlikely....has nothing to worry about...the defence of triviality would /should take care of that ...and no sensible person would sue on the basis that the comments complained of were damaging...simply an opinion which is presumed to be strongly held. :beer:
I appreciate such unsolicited views, as this should really be shifting to a discussion of an issue that affects any of us who express their views.

Frankly  I can't process the definition of triviality as from my mathematical and logical straight-jacket it's an obscenity.

If push came to shove I'd opt for assessing what increase in harm occurred.

Moving away from my selfish perspective, I still remain baffled as to how any of Mair's rambles were actually defamatory.

Perhaps some of you might care to investigate for yourselves.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Arsenal on 2014-May-14, 06:39 PM
The law of defamation is easily accessible in OZ to lay persons ........bloggers like our good  selves are not immune from being sued...so while there are defences available ....truth is one ..it would be an uncomfortable position to be  a defendant being pursued by a plaintiff with an organisation behind him with unlimited resources.....perhaps that is why the other person thought it best to not run the risk even though it may have been a small one. :beer:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-14, 06:59 PM
The law of defamation is easily accessible in OZ to lay persons ........bloggers like our good  selves are not immune from being sued...so while there are defences available ....truth is one ..it would be an uncomfortable position to be  a defendant being pursued by a plaintiff with an organisation behind him with unlimited resources.....perhaps that is why the other person thought it best to not run the risk even though it may have been a small one. :beer:
Actually it's not that easy.

For example I have no clue which law is in place here.

NSW is just a dart throw on my part.

As to truth, the catch is being able to adequately prove it.

I try to protect myself by only agitating about stuff on the public record.

But even then I can slip up.

For example there was a cute incident that I witnessed and knew to be true, which I thought had also hit the media.

But I was wrong.

Luckily it wasn't that big a deal, but sooner or later something like that could bite me.

Hopefully by then I'll be in a position to use the dementia defence.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-15, 06:24 AM

Or has the anti Racing NSW crowd got it wrong (yet again).

What on earth are you on about?

The author of that article is Christian Nicolussi.

His articles are sponsored by Tabcorp.

This is a key excerpt:

"Hong Kong spat the dummy because Australia showed him too much love after he was found guilty over there for tipping winners. Boo hoo, Honkers."

Clearly siding with V'landys against Hong Kong!

Now unless you can produce credible evidence that Nicolussi is anti Racing NSW, you need to retract pronto.

Or you yourself might find out how pleasant it is to be on the receiving end of defamation action.

https://twitter.com/mrchrisnico

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/superracing
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Maximus on 2014-May-15, 12:12 PM
Can't wait to see this in the court listings: "Anti Racing NSW Crowd vs PoisonPen7".
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2014-May-15, 12:56 PM
Can't wait to see this in the court listings: "Anti Racing NSW Crowd vs PoisonPen7".

  :lol:

Your honour. The Anti Racing NSW Crowd contend that on or about the 13th March 2014, that PoisonPen7 told them to go and suck some eggs.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-15, 01:02 PM
  :lol:  

Your honour. The Anti Racing NSW Crowd contend that on or about the 13th March 2014, that PoisonPen7 told them to go and suck some eggs.
Now consider Nicolussi vs PoisonPen7.

You know that is what's required.

Yet try to skulk away from that.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2014-May-15, 05:34 PM
Now consider Nicolussi vs PoisonPen7.

You know that is what's required.

Yet try to skulk away from that.


At first I thought you were a bit eccentric.

Then I thought "maybe I was wrong and he has a good sense of humour".

But are you honestly attempting to threaten me, somewhat perversely, on behalf of Mr. Nicolussi?

 :no:

Quite seriously mate, you should turn off the internet for a while. Go and give it a good rest. I will be putting you on ignore for your own good - I can just sense a bit of "unnatural anger" on the other end and am genuinely concerned for your welfare. If you feel you cannot contain that anger then suggest you seek out some help.   emthup
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-15, 05:39 PM
At first I thought you were a bit eccentric.

Then I thought "maybe I was wrong and he has a good sense of humour".

But are you honestly attempting to threaten me, somewhat perversely, on behalf of Mr. Nicolussi?

 :no:

Quite seriously mate, you should turn off the internet for a while. Go and give it a good rest. I will be putting you on ignore for your own good - I can just sense a bit of "unnatural anger" on the other end and am genuinely concerned for your welfare. If you feel you cannot contain that anger then suggest you seek out some help.    emthup  

What I require you to do is either justify your claim about Nicolussi.

Or concede you were wrong.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-16, 01:45 PM
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/superracing/racing-nsw-chief-executive-peter-vlandys-confident-championships-will-be-on-again/story-fni2gg7e-1226919374841

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-18, 07:18 AM
“Our chief steward Ray Murrihy visited the stable after we received some information, which proved to be creditable, and he has launched an investigation,” Racing NSW chief executive Peter V’landys said.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/creditable

Our word for today.

Its antonym is deplorable, which somehow springs to mind.

Does Wollongong have its own dialect, akin to Catfish Row where the Gullah language was spoken?

http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/2277051/nathan-tinkler-facing-probe-after-shifting-patinack-stock-from-john-thompsons-stable/?cs=12

Incredible how that word has now corrected itself.

Maybe Chris Roots is one more of my avid readers?

Pity he doesn't consider my other material here newsworthy.

I would have thought he'd have no objection to be handed a few Walkleys on a platter.

Zeljko's connection to the VITAB fraud?

Or how about the Isle of Manipulation?

http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/2277051/nathan-tinkler-facing-probe-after-shifting-patinack-stock-from-john-thompsons-stable/?cs=12
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: monologue on 2014-May-18, 08:06 AM
News report last night also mentioned Tinklers' NRL club Newcastle is still waiting on payment of wages to players and  club staff.
If you want a lesson on how to earn and burn then this bloke shows you in spades.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-20, 01:44 PM
Not from a new article, but this just strikes me as to how much in tune V'landys is with the racing consumer.

From what I gather he and his marketing genii have devised a master strategy to fill the racetracks with the party crowd.

This lot would probably not even watch a horse on a nearby TV screen.

Some may indeed find that experience filled with ecstasy but it's hard to see how that could turn them into horse owners.

------

Where the revamped Randwick fits in for V’Landys is that it can encourage more people to go to the races and then, in turn, look at buying a horse.

“What tempts people to be owners is being out at the course and having a good time with friends.

“They have a drink and think about going into a horse, which they wouldn’t do if they weren’t at the races.”

http://www.afr.com/p/lifestyle/life_leisure/sydney_shows_new_form_in_racing_glVTn7qBTlpCEZIYrQNLdJ
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Steve M on 2014-May-20, 02:03 PM
Lots people want to laud Hong Kong with Happy Valley Weds crowds and Melbourne with once year Spring Carnival goers...

but want to pay out Racing NSW for trying to do same.

Curious.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-20, 02:17 PM
Lots people want to laud Hong Kong with Happy Valley Weds crowds and Melbourne with once year Spring Carnival goers...

but want to pay out Racing NSW for trying to do same.

Curious.
The Asian Racing Conference had statistics about the enormous Melbourne Spring Attendances. That has an unquestionable boost to its economy.

The Sydney crowds were clearly meagre.

And if someone did a true assessment including all that phenomenal money wasted on grandstands and demolitions.

I suspect racing was a huge drain on government funds.

Note also that Sydney has 200,000 visitors a week.

So even if racing started pulling bigger crowds the effect on the economy would be negligible.

When watching the feverish expensive activity at Randwick over many years, I have great difficulty thinking anything other than what a tremendous waste of our money that is.


Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Steve M on 2014-May-20, 02:30 PM
'The Asian Racing Conference had statistics about the enormous Melbourne Spring Attendances. That has an unquestionable boost to its economy.'
No doubt Vic figures get trumped up beyond their actual worth but likewise there's no question big crowds attend and spend.

'The Sydney crowds were clearly meagre.'
No doubt they'd been disappointed but nothing's created in year. They've got to build it.

'I suspect racing was a huge drain on government funds.'
The gambling industries - racing being one - serve the govt pretty well I'd say - there's lot of cream they scoop off the top, surely.

Personally V'landys doesn't do lot for me but with Messara as brains op I thought they achieved they had some great publicity and achieved what lots people said they couldn't do - get international runners.

I just have general view that you can't can racing authorities for not doing anything then can then for doing something.

I thought The Championships - was bold/ambitious/got ear govt - all things racing usually struggle with. All positives when so many get stuck in negatives.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-21, 11:38 AM

My sentiments precisely, Dear Leader.

I've become an avid observer of twitterers opining about V'landys.

Talk about unanimity from observers outside from V'landys' net.

Then at other times you get fawning spam from the media mafia.



https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=v%27landys&src=typd
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-May-27, 05:51 PM
Old news but highly consistent with my growing impression that if you ain't a squillionare like Messara or Jones you are expected to lie back and think of the Order of Australia.


http://www.punters.com.au/forum/horse-racing/TheThree-Stooges-running-Racing-in-NSW%3A-Vlandys-Messara-and-Cornish_58216/

http://www.racenet.com.au/news/90368/Strikes-and-protests-mentioned-by-%27very-angry%27-trainers
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Arsenal on 2014-May-27, 06:13 PM
Love the pic of GUV old time British actor Sid James long gone from the silver screen but well remembered . :beer:

Seeing that the NSW guys are so unhappy maybe they should move to Qld and  if they like it enough to stay.......to  eat the paint off the walls like the locals. :shutup:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Jun-29, 01:43 PM
Courtesy of the Bitch, here is V'landys fighting for the Harness fraternity.

Back before his tub of lard set in.


Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2014-Jun-29, 06:20 PM
If you cannot view that video clip go to

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZgRJekh2Cs

or if you believe P V'L is the messiah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40qzo4ErstI
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Jul-15, 05:07 PM
My attempt to translate this piece.

Anything V'landys has in mind involves gouging money from some fool.

So when no money eventuates, he just does absolutely nothing, bar stuffing chips up his gob.




http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/racing-nsw-strategic-plan-must-aim-high-20140715-zt6ca.html
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Jul-24, 05:31 PM
Apropos V'landys' former fiefdom Harold Park.

Turns out Clover Moore has now taken over!

And no one's remembered to charge Ian Craig with market manipulation.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/realestate/news/locarno-is-the-first-precinct-to-open-at-harold-park/story-fni0cly4-1227000111459
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Oct-28, 06:09 AM
As if anyone need more proof of V'landys' talent in squandering our money on an industry rapidly going down the tubes.

Francesca Cusmani - of all people!

In my book she's past her use by date, and I'm tempted to switch channels whenever her grating voice intrudes on an event.

If he insists on hiring an alien surely his new hero would be more effective?

His international appeal is still massive, if yesterday's 30 Rock reference is any guide:

All the big actors do charity work on Christmas eve. Russel Crowe is having an auction to benefit the victims of his own mood swings.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/winemaker-bruce-tyrrell-stirs-up-big-coal-while-tv-types-bid-for-20000-james-packer-lunch/story-fni0cwl5-1227101475424

http://www.30rockquotes.net/seasons/season_5/30rockquotes_christmas_attack_zone.cfm
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2014-Nov-24, 08:33 AM
Here is an apparently genuine observation about the new Randwick facilities.

It adds to my belief that if you give V'landys any public money he will squander it.

He's failed to stop the decline in Punting Revenue, maybe because his stunts have forced that Revenue to competitors  - some to illegal or Offshore outlets.

Yet he's demanding a bigger cut of the cake that he's responsible for shrinking.

https://racingbitch.wordpress.com/2014/11/10/the-wilfwilf-theres-a-wolf-at-your-atc-door-and-its-not-james-mathers-email-of-the-day/
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2015-Jan-18, 12:24 PM
V'landys' action against me might still be ongoing.

While revisiting it here may not be the most prudent action, I believe doing so is in the public interest.

Firstly, I deliberately withheld a key development from my initial account.

That the letter I received was not actually addressed to me. The address was correct but the name definitely was wrong.

I only realised that after I opened it, because I wasn't wearing my glasses when processing the junk mail from my nail box.

You'd think my adversaries would have picked up on that, after they read my curiously phrased post here. And checked some stuff.

But amazingly around early May a second letter arrived. Still with that same wrong name!

This time I didn't open it. Instead I consulted a lawyer, then in accordance with instructions, I fronted up to a Post Office with my ID, and had that letter stamped "not at this address", then returned.

Presumably I had just provided V'landys' lawyer with a very useful clue on how to actually send the letter to me.

However I have received no further correspondence!

It should come as no surprise that I suspect Privacy Acts have been breached, and I did make overtures to a pertinent Officer about my concerns.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2015-Aug-03, 09:43 AM
V'landys bleated to high heaven that he wasn't allowed to hike fees, so it was essential more money should be squandered on his deranged agenda.

But now he is allowed to raise fees!

Wonder if he'll be repaying us now?

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/rob-waterhouse-believes-race-field-fees-are-holding-back-bookmakers-20150802-gipr0y.html
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2015-Aug-05, 05:48 AM
Not sure who the author of this PuntersShow commentary is, but for once I concur.

But is this going too far?

"The tipping point for the corporates and exchanges to abandon NSW racing all together may not be that far away."

I don't think they need to bother to abandon NSW.

It makes far more sense to move sponsorship, advertising and promotions away from NSW so as to let V'landys' edifice of greed deteriorate faster than the declining norm.



http://www.puntersshow.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=72:racing-the-winner-from-race-fields-fee-hike-doubt-it
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: dragons on 2015-Aug-05, 07:08 AM
Dont think they can sponsor anything to do with racing in NSW, dont RNSW have an exclusive deal with the green giant?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2015-Aug-05, 07:33 AM
Dont think they can sponsor anything to do with racing in NSW, dont RNSW have an exclusive deal with the green giant?
Tabcorp is the official wagering partner.

But I doubt that Corporates would not be allowed to sponsor specific races.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2015-Aug-05, 08:20 AM
puntersshow.com.au   :lol:

These "authoritative" web sites get more obscure every day. Another sycophant for RVL in their war with Racing NSW?

Anonymous $2 web site. Won't bother reading it.

Tools: DIG: 104.24.119.57Traceroute: 104.24.119.57
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Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: dragons on 2015-Aug-05, 08:22 AM
Tabcorp is the official wagering partner.

But I doubt that Corporates would not be allowed to sponsor specific races.

 Name me one race a corporate has sponsored in nsw?
Not allowed i am telling you
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2015-Aug-05, 10:44 AM
Not sure who the author of this PuntersShow commentary is, but for once I concur.

But is this going too far?

"The tipping point for the corporates and exchanges to abandon NSW racing all together may not be that far away."

I don't think they need to bother to abandon NSW.

It makes far more sense to move sponsorship, advertising and promotions away from NSW so as to let V'landys' edifice of greed deteriorate faster than the declining norm.

http://www.puntersshow.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=72:racing-the-winner-from-race-fields-fee-hike-doubt-it

OK. Just had a read of it.

There is a whole article there bagging Racing NSW for raising their fees to 8%.

Comments like this throughout the whole article:

At best it portrays an outlook that is concerning if you are serious about trying to eke out a profit on racing in NSW as a bookmaker or punter.

...

Rest assured, there is only one way wagering operators will absorb the costs of the additional charges and that's to pass it on to their customers.

They will do this by:

- being less competitive while asking punters to bet into bigger percentage markets
- no longer servicing small-profit punters, and in some cases, small losers,
- becoming even more stringent than they are now when it comes to closing accounts.
- It will be counter-productive to turnover and less turnover means less fees collected by Racing NSW.

...

And that can only mean grief for the Australian punters, racing's most important customers who are a lot more discerning and sophisticated than racing administrators give them credit for.

http://www.puntersshow.com.au/news/racing-the-winner-from-race-fields-fee-hike-doubt-it

There is one major problem I have with that article.

RVL has a Racefields model with a sliding scale of between 5% and 10%. Not one single mention at all in that article of that fact. We can argue the numbers on another thread - 8% v 5-10%. But the point being this article seems to be yet another (yawn) extension of the arrogant RVL publicity machine. RVL and Corporates white hat. Racing NSW and TABCorp black hat.

So I really look forward to the author's criticism of RVL when the 10% kicks in. Will we see the violin come out and be played on behalf of punters when the corporates are paying 10% for betting on Victorian Racing? I doubt it.

A lot of this sort of "selectively biased" criticism has overtones of the failed Corporate challenge to Racefields. Funny thing is, probably the same players but one side now has board representation at RVL.

If you want your site to have any credibility fellas, then change the record. This one was scratched several years ago and keeps going on and on and on........  :sleep:

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2015-Aug-05, 11:14 AM
Name me one race a corporate has sponsored in nsw?
Not allowed i am telling you
I was unable to find any official confirmation of this arrangement, but it looks like you're probably tight.

Just reviewed CrownBet's promotions and Sports seem to outnumber Racing.

And Vic Racing seems to get more than NSW.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2015-Aug-05, 11:33 AM
There is one major problem I have with that article.

RVL has a Racefields model with a sliding scale of between 5% and 10%. Not one single mention at all in that article of that fact. We can argue the numbers on another thread - 8% v 5-10%. But the point being this article seems to be yet another (yawn) extension of the arrogant RVL publicity machine. RVL and Corporates white hat. Racing NSW and TABCorp black hat.

Wonder if anyone cares?

As a punter I sure don't. Normally competition means a better deal for me. Although I doubt it in this instance.

I don't care what State or country I bet in, or whether it's racing or sports, as long as I'm not getting gouged.

The tip hawking site has never had any credibility. And adding Fletcher to the stable has only gilded the lily.

But it's notable that for once that site produced a cogent assessment of V'landys' latest forage into the trough.

The commentary is about the NSW new hike, so there's no need to address RVL's stable model.

Remember the recent Betfair adjustment for Rakes spells out the lay of the land.

8% V'landys
6% elsewhere
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Antitab# on 2015-Aug-05, 01:16 PM
Corporates are unable to sponsor Group or Listed races in NSW.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2015-Aug-05, 01:18 PM
Corporates are unable to sponsor Group or Listed races in NSW.

Just to clarify - horse racing.

Ladbrokes are a very generous sponsor of the local greyhound industry - especially places like Lismore  :) Unibet also have a few sponsorships. Apologies if I have forgotten any.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2015-Aug-05, 01:25 PM
Wonder if anyone cares?

As a punter I sure don't. Normally competition means a better deal for me. Although I doubt it in this instance.

I don't care what State or country I bet in, or whether it's racing or sports, as long as I'm not getting gouged.

The tip hawking site has never had any credibility. And adding Fletcher to the stable has only gilded the lily.

But it's notable that for once that site produced a cogent assessment of V'landys' latest forage into the trough.

The commentary is about the NSW new hike, so there's no need to address RVL's stable model.

Remember the recent Betfair adjustment for Rakes spells out the lay of the land.

8% V'landys
6% elsewhere


That is not accurate although I suspect you know that.

Will Betfair change their rates when the 10% kicks in in Victoria? Will their sister company Crown still offer 90% of their corporate specials on Victorian racing then?

How much of the lower rate charged by RVL to Betfair is compensated by the extra money paid by Crown to RVL for retransmission of an already free service (Victorian racing)?

What is the catchcry by the RVL PR Machine? "Live And Free"? How come they charge Crown at all then?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2015-Aug-05, 01:46 PM
That is not accurate although I suspect you know that.

Will Betfair change their rates when the 10% kicks in in Victoria? Will their sister company Crown still offer 90% of their corporate specials on Victorian racing then?

How much of the lower rate charged by RVL to Betfair is compensated by the extra money paid by Crown to RVL for retransmission of an already free service (Victorian racing)?

What is the catchcry by the RVL PR Machine? "Live And Free"? How come they charge Crown at all then?
All that's accurate to the best of my knowledge.

And, again I don't care.

If competition ends up for a better deal for me and those of my ilk, then I'm fine with that.

I don't care how Betfair adjusts its future Rakes. I'll just adopt appropriate coping mechanisms.

In the process of defending myself I'm more than familiar with V'landys' shortcomings.

I'm not interested in wasting more time looking into flaws of others.

Until they elect to launch defamation proceedings against me.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2015-Aug-05, 02:09 PM
All that's accurate to the best of my knowledge.

And, again I don't care.

If competition ends up for a better deal for me and those of my ilk, then I'm fine with that.

I don't care how Betfair adjusts its future Rakes. I'll just adopt appropriate coping mechanisms.

In the process of defending myself I'm more than familiar with V'landys' shortcomings.

I'm not interested in wasting more time looking into flaws of others.

Until they elect to launch defamation proceedings against me.


That's OK. We are getting used to that sort of response from Racing NSW critics when faced with specific questions pointing out flaws in their arguments.

For your information, this is how the lower rates charged by Betfair were announced by RVL and their loyal organ racing.com

In a further show of support for Racing Victoria, Betfair has announced that it will lower commission rates on Victorian thoroughbred racing.

....

Racing Victoria recently amended the race fields’ fees that it charges betting exchange operators. On a standard meeting, Betfair will now be charged 1.0 per cent of net customer winnings. This increases to 1.5 per cent for Group and Listed meetings, and 2.0 per cent for Premier meetings such as Melbourne Cup Day.

Betfair had been charging its customers a blanket rate of 6.5 per cent commission across the three Australian racing codes. This will now change reflecting on the fees that each racing body charges Betfair, with a variable market base rate ranging from 6 per cent to 8 per cent.

A market base rate of 6 per cent will now apply on every thoroughbred race in Victoria and South Australia, as well as harness racing in Victoria and greyhound racing in New South Wales.

Customers of thoroughbred racing in NSW and Queensland will be charged a commission fee of 8 per cent.

Industry sources believe that this is a significant result for Victorian thoroughbred racing, leading to more Betfair customers that are price sensitive to bet solely on the Victorian product.

http://www.racing.com/news/2015-07-07/vic-wagering-figures-remain-solid

Notice that last sentence. "Industry sources believe.....".   :lol:

Very strange I thought that the web site representing RVL is reporting the charges by Betfair on NSW and Qld racing. What has it got to do with RVL? I do know that RVL has two board members who formerly worked for Betfair but apart from that is there any association between RVL and Betfair/Crown that we don't know about?

I jump on board and can report that some "industry sources believe" that RVL should report the charges applied to Betfair in concert with the monies received from Crown given that Betfair and Crown are owned in the same interests. If you don't, well then what can I say..... :nowink:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2015-Aug-05, 03:30 PM
That's OK. We are getting used to that sort of response from Racing NSW critics when faced with specific questions pointing out flaws in their arguments.

For your information, this is how the lower rates charged by Betfair were announced by RVL and their loyal organ racing.com

In a further show of support for Racing Victoria, Betfair has announced that it will lower commission rates on Victorian thoroughbred racing.

....

Racing Victoria recently amended the race fields’ fees that it charges betting exchange operators. On a standard meeting, Betfair will now be charged 1.0 per cent of net customer winnings. This increases to 1.5 per cent for Group and Listed meetings, and 2.0 per cent for Premier meetings such as Melbourne Cup Day.

Betfair had been charging its customers a blanket rate of 6.5 per cent commission across the three Australian racing codes. This will now change reflecting on the fees that each racing body charges Betfair, with a variable market base rate ranging from 6 per cent to 8 per cent.

A market base rate of 6 per cent will now apply on every thoroughbred race in Victoria and South Australia, as well as harness racing in Victoria and greyhound racing in New South Wales.

Customers of thoroughbred racing in NSW and Queensland will be charged a commission fee of 8 per cent.

Industry sources believe that this is a significant result for Victorian thoroughbred racing, leading to more Betfair customers that are price sensitive to bet solely on the Victorian product.

http://www.racing.com/news/2015-07-07/vic-wagering-figures-remain-solid

Notice that last sentence. "Industry sources believe.....".    :lol:  

Very strange I thought that the web site representing RVL is reporting the charges by Betfair on NSW and Qld racing. What has it got to do with RVL? I do know that RVL has two board members who formerly worked for Betfair but apart from that is there any association between RVL and Betfair/Crown that we don't know about?

I jump on board and can report that some "industry sources believe" that RVL should report the charges applied to Betfair in concert with the monies received from Crown given that Betfair and Crown are owned in the same interests. If you don't, well then what can I say..... :nowink:
It's far from OK.

No one has pointed out any flaws in my arguments.

I happen to have ended up in Sydney.

In my attempts to percolate through the punting paradigm I've had brushes with sordid situations aimed at impeding me.

And my observations of the Sydney scene are rooted in my life experiences.

Had I wound up in Melbourne then my focus would surely have been there.

Now, does anyone care if there's an association between Betfair and RVL? As long as that does not negatively impact anyone's returns.

By contrast, who could not care about V'landys' deranged agenda?

To shaft punters to unheard of levels, while going to extreme efforts to keep them in the dark.



Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2015-Aug-05, 09:00 PM


RNSW is digging its grave

RNSW, having locked itself into 'outlawing' Betfair, is now wearing the consequences.

I would nominate the 'victory' over Betfair as the most stupid thing that RNSW asked for.

The continuing setback compounds its growing irrelevance on 521 -- the racing run at the Funny Farm today defies a polite description: absolute rubbish, as indicated by the outcomes -- where are the stewards when  ensuring 'fair' should be a relevant responsibility?

Looming, is the ever more damming drift of racing relevance to RVL -- how many of the nominations for the Epsom will warrant more than the minimum weight? How many more will be clamouring to get a run in Melbourne?

Only the irrelevant states are dependent on both the money from the betting on Melbourne racing, taken unfairly, and their own few days of seasonal relevance in the racing year -- RNSW has joined the also rans.

That said one can hardly contain the derision that RVL deserves for serving up the deplorable rubbish that they do over winter -- today was illustrative, along with every other day when they burn TAB punters at the stake.

OK -- it is not compulsory to bet -- try telling that to the genetically deranged Irish-Catholic addicts who must have a class action pending for being repeatedly robbed.

Quality management of the racing product is essential.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2015-Aug-06, 06:37 AM
It's far from OK.

No one has pointed out any flaws in my arguments.

I happen to have ended up in Sydney.

In my attempts to percolate through the punting paradigm I've had brushes with sordid situations aimed at impeding me.

And my observations of the Sydney scene are rooted in my life experiences.

Had I wound up in Melbourne then my focus would surely have been there.

Now, does anyone care if there's an association between Betfair and RVL? As long as that does not negatively impact anyone's returns.

By contrast, who could not care about V'landys' deranged agenda?

To shaft punters to unheard of levels, while going to extreme efforts to keep them in the dark.


Too much information jfc....sordid???

You are right. If RVL wants to go into business with Jamie Packer then who are we to complain.

But the point being, if you have criticized Racing NSW for having a strong relationship with TAB, well you really have to take the same attitude with the RVL/Packer alignment don't you.

Otherwise you will get people like me coming on here calling you a hypocrite.  ;)
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2015-Aug-07, 02:54 PM
What's all this about!

Time to tap into the grapevine.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/nsw-racing-boss-peter-vlandys-threatens-legal-action-over-smear-campaign-20150806-giswps.html

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: dragons on 2015-Aug-07, 04:59 PM
A very valuable employee left RNSW recently, the one you complained to when the corporates barred you etc, seemed rather sudden to say the least.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2015-Aug-31, 06:30 AM
"Bart was a legend in every sense of the word, not only in sport, as he was a great Australian,"said Racing NSW chief executive Peter V'landys.

Fascinating.

For all I know Bart might be "the lettering running around the field of a coin, medal, etc."

But was he also " explanatory matter accompanying a table, map, chart, etc"?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/legend

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/bart-cummings-australians-racing-identities-react-to-the-passing-of-a-legend-20150829-gjav06.html#ixzz3kKdbcdW8
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2016-Jan-15, 01:59 PM
Pigs fly!


The punters' worst enemy is focusing on punters!

Enjoy!


January 14, 2016 10:00pm
Ray ThomasThe Daily Telegraphigs fl
Subscriber Exclusive Icon

WITH the major political battles won and racing industry funding secure, Racing NSW is determined to now focus on the punter.

Peter V’landys, Racing NSW’s chief executive, agreed to an interview this week to do some “crystal ball-gazing” at the year ahead, announce some exciting new initiatives designed to help punters, reveal when minimum prizemoney levels will be raised for country and provincial racing, and discuss the future of Randwick’s much-maligned Kensington track.


Q
What are the biggest challenges facing Racing NSW this year?

A
There are always challenges. One of the most important is to take all measures available to increase the size of race fields.

We are also committed to ensuring punters get the best possible service. On the Racing NSW website, we now have vision for every NSW race and barrier trial for every horse and we are embracing new technologies to provide the punter with groundbreaking new information.

This year, we will install tracking systems at 20 racecourses that give complete sectional times for every runner in a race, not just the leader. The systems are being trialled on Sydney racecourses at the moment and we are installing them at Scone next week. Once this work has been completed, punters will be able to study the acceleration rate of each horse, the distance it ran a race.


For example, if a horse is three-deep throughout a race, it will tell you the horse ran 1630m instead of 1600m. A punter will be able to use an app and put the cursor on a horse and have a complete sectional breakdown.

We are also investing heavily in high-definition camera units. Sky Channel doesn’t have a HD channel at the moment but we are negotiating with Sky to have Sky Thoroughbred Central (Ch521) broadcast in high-definition on Foxtel.


Racing NSW chief executive Peter V’landys. Pictu Mark Evans
Q
How important was obtaining wagering taxation parity with Victoria?

A
I don’t think people realise how important it was. For the past 10 years the Victorian racing industry has received $1 billion more than NSW but we have remained competitive as Racing NSW operates on a shoestring budget.

Without race fields legislation and parity, the NSW industry would have been on life support. You only have to look at what is happening in Queensland and in other states to wonder what might have happened.

We have been able to double the NSW racing industry revenue from $150 million to $300 million per year. This won’t be felt for a few years as parity is being phased in over the next five years, but without it there was no light at the end of the tunnel. Now, all of a sudden, there is a bright light. I don’t think NSW racing’s future has ever looked brighter.


Racing NSW is committed to ensuring punters get the best possible service.
Q
When will minimum race prizemoney increases, as detailed in the Racing NSW Strategic Plan, be introduced?

A
Country racing is in most need so minimum race prizemoney will increase from $15,000 per race to $20,000 per race on July 1. We are also going to have 40 showcase country meetings next season where minimum prizemoney is $30,000 per race. We want to make country racing more viable. These prizemoney increases mean total country racing prizemoney has gone up 120 per cent in five years.

Also from July 1, we will increase minor prizemoney levels at provincial meetings from $22,000 to $27,000 per race.

Metropolitan prizemoney levels stay where they are for the time being but we pick up the certainty of The Championships, which is $20 million a year.

We have concentrated hard on “bread and butter” races with prizemoney increases but it is required to have aspirational races and series and that is The Championships. You need races that have life-changing outcomes.

Q
Will Racing NSW continue with the TAB Highway Handicaps beyond this season?

A
Absolutely, with the support of the ATC as these races are conducted at their venues. Racing NSW will continue to fund these races.

The TAB Highways have been an extraordinary success and it is bringing country horses back to the city. Everyone’s aim in racing is to win at a Sydney racecourse and these races are bringing a lot of country owners and trainers to Sydney — they are helping to rejuvenate racing.


The TAB Highway Handicaps have been a big success this season. Pictu Jenny Evans
Q
What is the future of Randwick’s Kensington track?

A
The ATC experimented with a particular grass surface and it hasn’t worked. But there is no point looking back with this issue. We have to go to plan B now. We are working with the ATC to look at alternatives. We will wait until after the autumn carnival but we need to make sure that this time we get it right.

Q
Is Canterbury a Saturday racing venue?

A
No, I don’t believe so. Canterbury has a great surface and that is because it is hardly used but the track is not conducive to competitive racing. I know there are some who like a variety of tracks but, at the end of the day, we have to take into account what our customers want and the fact is punters don’t bet at Canterbury. Trainers either don’t nominate or scratch their runners.

In TV they have ratings, in racing we have wagering and the betting goes down as much as 20 per cent when we have a Saturday meeting at Canterbury. It is no secret we have already advised the ATC we are not supportive of Saturday racing there.

Q
Are you confident of attracting international competition to Sydney for The Championships this autumn?

A
Yes, very confident. Each year will be different but The Championships are established as an international racing event.

There is interest from Japan, Hong Kong, throughout Asia and Europe in The Championships. North America is harder to crack as there is no quarantine facility.

But we are also mindful that it is just as important to get the best Australasian horses to The Championships. We should never underestimate how good our local horses are.


Japan’s Real Impact created plenty of interest at last year’s The Championships. Picture Gregg Porteous
Q
The cobalt issue was a stain on racing last year. Is racing winning the battle against illegal drugs?

A
I think what this issue has highlighted is that we are not going to take a backward step to ensure there is a level playing field.

At times, you need to be transparent and there was a lot of ancillary stuff that came out during those cobalt inquiries. But it also shows we are going to take every action necessary and show no fear or favour to make sure that it is a level playing field for everyone involved in racing.

The customer, our punters, expect the highest level of integrity and we will do everything in our power to deliver that so, if a punter has his $1 on a horse, then he or she can have confidence their bet has every chance.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Authorized on 2016-Jan-15, 02:04 PM
This is great stuff -

Quote
We are also committed to ensuring punters get the best possible service. On the Racing NSW website, we now have vision for every NSW race and barrier trial for every horse and we are embracing new technologies to provide the punter with groundbreaking new information.

This year, we will install tracking systems at 20 racecourses that give complete sectional times for every runner in a race, not just the leader. The systems are being trialled on Sydney racecourses at the moment and we are installing them at Scone next week. Once this work has been completed, punters will be able to study the acceleration rate of each horse, the distance it ran a race.


For example, if a horse is three-deep throughout a race, it will tell you the horse ran 1630m instead of 1600m. A punter will be able to use an app and put the cursor on a horse and have a complete sectional breakdown.

We are also investing heavily in high-definition camera units. Sky Channel doesn’t have a HD channel at the moment but we are negotiating with Sky to have Sky Thoroughbred Central (Ch521) broadcast in high-definition on Foxtel.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Authorized on 2016-Jan-15, 02:08 PM
Quote
A
Country racing is in most need so minimum race prizemoney will increase from $15,000 per race to $20,000 per race on July 1. We are also going to have 40 showcase country meetings next season where minimum prizemoney is $30,000 per race. We want to make country racing more viable. These prizemoney increases mean total country racing prizemoney has gone up 120 per cent in five years.

Also from July 1, we will increase minor prizemoney levels at provincial meetings from $22,000 to $27,000 per race.

Metropolitan prizemoney levels stay where they are for the time being but we pick up the certainty of The Championships, which is $20 million a year.

We have concentrated hard on “bread and butter” races with prizemoney increases but it is required to have aspirational races and series and that is The Championships. You need races that have life-changing outcomes.

They have to stop this nonsense of every race having the same prize money.

Why should a BM40 be the same prize as a BM62 or open handicap ?

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2016-Jan-15, 02:57 PM
If Punter A , Punter B, Punter C etc  all have access to enhanced sectional times, acceleration rates or, whatever, of each horse how is one punter advantaged over the other ? It is just a more efficient playing field to determine their bets. Increased prize money, participation of overseas racehorses, HD cameras are only window dressing.  The only way punters will be helped to lose less is to reduce deduction rates unless that happens horse race betting will continue its slow decline.

If a punter wants to place a sports bet on a one on one contest he is generally only betting into a market of 108 %, how can racing compete when the TAB has deduction rates of 25% + fractions on the Big6 ( the highest ) down to 14.25 % on place betting ( the lowest ) ? Of course, place betting has fractions enacted three times in each race in fields of eight or more , effectively upping the commission rate to a much higher rate.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Authorized on 2016-Jan-15, 03:13 PM
I do not particularly care about the take outs.

I would much prefer to bet on a horse race where I am getting for argument sake a $3 fav than in a sporting event where I am getting a $1.20 fav.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jan-15, 03:54 PM
 :thumbsup:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2016-Jan-15, 03:57 PM
I do not particularly care about the take outs.

I would much prefer to bet on a horse race where I am getting for argument sake a $3 fav than in a sporting event where I am getting a $1.20 fav.



If you do not care about takeouts, I imagine it would be difficult to show a long term profit if you cannot relate odds to their true probability, which of course maybe subjective. $3 in a race field might be "overs" just as $1.20 about a team or player in a one on one could also be "overs".
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Authorized on 2016-Jan-15, 04:04 PM
I never bet unless I believe I am getting value but I never see value in anything under a $1.50 even if they are correctly a $1.25 chance.

Perhaps it is a psychological imbalance I suffer from but I will always be a horse punter and not a sports punter.

I enjoy watch both sport and horse racing but I have never felt the need to have a bet on a sporting event.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2016-Jan-15, 04:15 PM
Likewise I am a horse racing punter,  I would not have one bet a year on sports, however we are are a dying breed, as the younger generation are taking to sports betting as I did when younger to horse racing. Back in those days I did not have to contend with the higher takeout rates that are levied on horse racing today, that is why I believe V'Landys has not addressed the real issues facing racing today.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jan-15, 04:47 PM
I never bet unless I believe I am getting value but I never see value in anything under a $1.50 even if they are correctly a $1.25 chance.



$1.20 about a team or player in a one on one could also be "overs".


Risk and reward. Taking odds like $1.20 will see you in the poor houses very quickly. Theres zero value in risking $100 to win $20
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2016-Jan-15, 04:54 PM


Risk and reward. Taking odds like $1.20 will see you in the poor houses very quickly. Theres zero value in risking $100 to win $20

Unless you are getting a rebate.......
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jan-15, 05:04 PM
I hear all the complaints about these people getting rebates.
If something salutes @ $1.20 what divvy would they get with the rebate included? $1.21, $1.25, $1.50 or evens :chin:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2016-Jan-15, 05:12 PM
I hear all the complaints about these people getting rebates.
If something salutes @ $1.20 what divvy would they get with the rebate included? $1.21, $1.25, $1.50 or evens :chin:

I'll let jfc answer that one........I wouldn't know.

Honestly I cannot see how these guys make a buck. The cynic in me thinks it's legitimized money laundering  :)
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: fours on 2016-Jan-15, 05:15 PM
Wily,

On a 10% rebate theyre getting $1.31 which turns an 80% strike rate into a lovely profit on big turnover .... while non rebaters are showing a loss.

Fours
ps to get these reabtes I understand that minimum turnover requirements must be met.... and these sort of relatively safe bets help some do just that.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jan-15, 05:19 PM
wow, are they really getting 10%
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: fours on 2016-Jan-15, 05:29 PM
Wiley,

You're going to wake up jfc at this rate...

I'm talking our tabs but overseas some fo the figures are more than double that....

Googling Mark read should get you there.


Fours
ps remember Vo Rogue ( hope he's well as we have not heard from him for a while ) highlighting place bet anomalies caused by a rebate bettor doing just what I suggest...
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2016-Jan-15, 05:48 PM
WOD, I am a little surprised at your naivety re rebates. The TAB is happy to clear 15% on their turnover, thus if an exotic pool has a deduction rate of 25% ( the Big 6 in OZ, but in other countries it might apply to trifectas ) the rebate could be 10%, whereas if the deduction rate on another bet type might be 20% the rebate would be 5%. The rebate given would vary on the punter's turnover over an extended period, the higher the turnover the greater the rebate.To maintain a higher turnover threshold high rollers will often unload on short priced runners eg Black Caviar.

If a high roller has $10,000 on a $1.20 chance and it wins he could collect $12,000 + $500 ( 5% rebate ) = $1.25 . That might not seem much, but if the required odds for a long term win are $1.22, the rebater will win long term, whilst mere mortals will lose long term.

See you over on the Soap Box. :beer:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2016-Jan-15, 11:44 PM
If a high roller has $10,000 on a $1.20 chance and it wins he could collect $12,000 + $500 ( 5% rebate ) = $1.25 . That might not seem much, but if the required odds for a long term win are $1.22, the rebater will win long term, whilst mere mortals will lose long term.

There is something else there.

What happens if the high roller has $10,000 on a $1.20 chance in a small pool and causes it to pay $1.00.

The true dividend could be less than $1.00 with the 15% takeout applied if there is enough money on the favourite, but the TAB is obliged to pay $1.00.

Does that ever happen  :what:

If so, who pays?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jan-16, 06:55 AM
WOD, I am a little surprised at your naivety re rebates. The TAB is happy to clear 15% on their turnover, thus if an exotic pool has a deduction rate of 25% ( the Big 6 in OZ, but in other countries it might apply to trifectas ) the rebate could be 10%, whereas if the deduction rate on another bet type might be 20% the rebate would be 5%. The rebate given would vary on the punter's turnover over an extended period, the higher the turnover the greater the rebate.To maintain a higher turnover threshold high rollers will often unload on short priced runners eg Black Caviar.

If a high roller has $10,000 on a $1.20 chance and it wins he could collect $12,000 + $500 ( 5% rebate ) = $1.25 . That might not seem much, but if the required odds for a long term win are $1.22, the rebater will win long term, whilst mere mortals will lose long term.

See you over on the Soap Box. :beer:


Good to see you on a racing topic Bubba.

Join the comp for this week mate, the more the merrier :thumbsup:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jan-16, 06:57 AM
There is something else there.

What happens if the high roller has $10,000 on a $1.20 chance in a small pool and causes it to pay $1.00.

The true dividend could be less than $1.00 with the 15% takeout applied if there is enough money on the favourite, but the TAB is obliged to pay $1.00.

Does that ever happen  :what:

If so, who pays?


The other side of the coin is that having his 10k on a shorty blows my price out on the thing that I back so I benefit
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: fours on 2016-Jan-16, 08:19 AM
Wily,

NOT SO FAST! I am pretty sure the TAB is empowered to steal from your true dividends to pay the big guys divvy!

Fours
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2016-Jan-16, 08:22 AM
I am unsure of what happens in that situation today, but  in the past the following methodology was applied..

Place pool : $10,000
Winning units on 3 placegetters A: $1,500 B: $4,000 C: $1,000
Commission deducted ( for simplicity ): 15 % = $1.500
Net Pool : $8,500
Payout per horse:$2,833, however punters on horse B are entitled to their  money back = $4,000, therefore to make up that shortfall of $1,167($4,000 - $2,833 ) punters on horses A & C had to lose $1,167 from there dividend distribution, each would have lost $583.50 from their initial $2.833

If a rebater had the lion's share of that $4,000 winning place investment, I would like to know how he can be given a rebate if that same methodology is applied today ?
Is the rebate paid reducing the distribution to winning punters on horses A & C, or does the TAB wear the rebate themselves ?

I believe that methodology was first applied when a place pool could be manipulated by punters. If any of you are old enough you will recall Eddie Birchall, the Fireman, who took advantage of an anomaly that allowed him to manipulate a place pool. Birchley loved odds on favourites and restricted his manipulation to races where there was an odds on favourite.He would attend a small meeting, it might have been Southport trots, on a Saturday where the "on course only tote" ( the pool was not linked into any TAB pool ) would operate on interstate races, where few punters, if any, would bother placing a bet on the on course only tote.

As not to alert other punters of his plan, as the betting progressed he would place proportionately staked small place bets on all runners, including the favourite, then just as they were about to jump he would place a huge bet on the favourite for a place. The tickets in those days were probably hand written. For example if he had placed a total of $500 on all the runners and the late bet of $5,000 on the favourite that meant he had built up the pool to $5,500. Once the rake of $660, I think it was 12 % in those days, was deducted from the pool the distribution to winning punters was $4,840 =$1,613 per placegetter, but Eddie was entitled to get his $5,000 odd back on the favourite, thus he collected that amount plus $1,613 on each of the other placegetters for a total of around $8,226 for his total outlay of $5,500. Not bad, until they woke up to his little earner.

If by chance the favourite missed a place he still collected $4,840 on the three placegetters and only lost the $660 rake, which meant he had 3/1(potential profit / risk = 2726/660 )  about the odds on favourite running the place.

Although Eddie made a good deal of money before they closed that loop hole, later in life things did not go so well, as he was charged and convicted of changing the price label on a small item at a supermarket .
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2016-Jan-19, 10:23 AM
I do not particularly care about the take outs.

I would much prefer to bet on a horse race where I am getting for argument sake a $3 fav than in a sporting event where I am getting a $1.20 fav.


I see considerable ignorance in this and some following posts.

In this caper there is nothing more important than Expectation.

Yet nearly every regular here seems to be oblivious to this cornerstone.

V'landys belongs to the House. But presents as controlling it.

He hikes Rakes to try to hike his Expectation.

A player who expects to cope must proactively try to dampen V'landys' Expectation.

And this requires having effective coping mechanisms for usurious Rakes.

An increasingly popular way of doing this is voting with your feet.

Forsaking V'landys and emigrating to squeaky clean Sports.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: fours on 2016-Jan-19, 01:46 PM
jfc,

One can just sit out a race in a negative expectation scenario..... rather than run away to sports.

I sit out a lot of the time these days.

Fours
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2016-Jan-19, 02:37 PM
jfc,

One can just sit out a race in a negative expectation scenario..... rather than run away to sports.

I sit out a lot of the time these days.

Fours
I don't sit out races.

When V'landys and his ilk hike the Rake on HK I focus on the HK Pools that are still playable.

I don't run away to Sports.

The Expectation of Lleyton triumphing is roughly bupkiss.

So Lleying him at 1000 is extremely comfortable for me.

Bit of a queue though.

It's no drawback that I consider him an unmitigated turd.

Sports presents as a very fertile area for exploitation.

Check out the Betfair volatility on fellow turd Tomic.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jan-19, 05:01 PM
Is the tote not paramutual and the bookies are not?

If you deem you need a certain price for a horse before you back it and it hits that price with the rake taken out, who gives a stuff. You are still getting the price what you want.
As to the corporates, they take a rake as well don't they and whilst it may be less than the TAB it seems to me that the tote more often than not pays higher than the corporates so the corporates are taking an artificially incresded rake by giving you a lesser price :bulb:


Has there been a survery done comparing the average SP to the avgerage tote payout? As I said, more often than not when I back a winner SP the tote price usually seems better :wacko:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jan-19, 05:05 PM
Just had a quick look at the 2 meetings today. Tote beat the corporates on 12 of the 16 races and usually at a price that was 10% more
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2017-Apr-18, 09:07 AM
V'landys going South would be about the only way of boosting NSW racing crowds and turnover.

https://www.racing.com/news/2017-04-13/help-us-pvl-youre-our-only-hope
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2017-Apr-18, 09:28 AM
V'landys going South would be about the only way of boosting NSW racing crowds and turnover.

https://www.racing.com/news/2017-04-13/help-us-pvl-youre-our-only-hope

Peter Moody says Racing Victoria being left behind by Peter V’landys and Racing NSW

PETER Moody fears NSW will soon have a monopoly on Australian racing if current trends continue and insists Racing Victoria must poach Peter V’landys or Darren Pearce from across the border if they are to stay competitive with the premier state.

Black Caviar’s trainer Moody, who walked away from training last year after being banned for six months when one of his horses tested positive to cobalt, on Wednesday teed off at Racing Victoria, labelling the Victorian racing industry “rudderless” and lacking any “positive vibes at all”.

It comes as Moody spent the past month in Sydney for the autumn carnival.

“The buoyancy that was (in Sydney) in the last month that I experienced was phenomenal,” Moody said. “That has been missing in Victoria for a good few years unfortunately. It’s just very stagnant in Victoria at the moment and there are no positive vibes at all.”

Moody insists something must change otherwise NSW will soon hold all the aces when it comes to Australian racing.

“You would hate to see it become a monopoly for one state and that’s the way it’s going at the moment,” he said. “I think it has been pretty much on an even keel for a long time and now NSW just seem to have a head full of steam up and I don’t know what Racing Victoria have to do to stop it.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/superracing/nsw-racing/peter-moody-says-racing-victoria-being-left-behind-by-peter-vlandys-and-racing-nsw/news-story/331401c9176f271e21ce55e6035b30ef

A monopoly??? Geez. Talk about paranoia   :lol:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2017-Apr-18, 09:43 AM
V'landys going South would be about the only way of boosting NSW racing crowds and turnover.

https://www.racing.com/news/2017-04-13/help-us-pvl-youre-our-only-hope

I see you, constantly, write this.

Give me your top 5 things you would do to I prove crowds and turnover in sydney
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2017-Apr-18, 10:19 AM
I see you, constantly, write this.

Give me your top 5 things you would do to I prove crowds and turnover in sydney
Pretty sure I already have.

Terminating V'landys Atenborough (and so many of their vegetables) would be a huge start.

But the main thing is to engage everybody at the track so they won't vow to never return - as I suspect they do currently.

Having closed systems available only to track patrons is extremely cheap. Fully automated so patrons interact through mobile phones, so there's no stupid waste like tickets and money-handling. Merely software that can be re-used at virtually all tracks around the world.

So you could have Amateur Bookie Tournaments where the contestants must get the largest turnover to win. Smaller maximum bets, but forced to bet to tighter markets.

The contestants would be in a fish bowl and patrons could enjoy seeing them get frantic and lose the plot (a la Stock Market Trading Rooms of old).

Or a never ending Lotto game, where all patrons select an 8 digit number, and have imaginary Each Way bets placed on say 40 races. Running Leaders broadcast regularly, and near-zero cost Food, Beverage and Area Access prizes to Progressive Leaders.

Great way of having singles interact, if they happen to be progressive winners granted temporary access to a fancy well-stocked room.

All this costs next to nothing and so many people would have lots of effusive things to say when fending the obligatory "how was your weekend" water cooler gauntlet.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2017-Apr-18, 12:26 PM
Cheers mate.

Some very good ideas worth investigating :thumbsup:

Sadly, I don't go to the track any more but theres not much they can do to entice me back. They need the youngsters who are fearless....like I USED to be :sad: :tears: :tears: :tears:

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: fours on 2017-Apr-18, 01:34 PM
.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2017-Apr-19, 04:44 AM


Much to do -- nothing to do

There is no way punters in NSW will go to th races.

Punters in Melbourne go to funerals of people they did not know.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2017-Apr-19, 07:53 AM
Right pain in the cloaca cracking the idiotic site's pay wall.



BY MICK SHARKIE - @THESHARKTWEET19 hours ago Horse Racing
Racing NSW CEO Peter V'Landys (Pic: Getty)

Disruption.

It's a concept that the Australian racing industry is not all that familiar with but which exists in nearly every modern industry around the world.
While Racing New South Wales' major announcements of 2017, The Everest and the proposed Harbour Bridge race, are irresistible feed bags for those that love to waffle and debate the merits of any idea outside of the norm, neither concept is racing's answer to Uber.

And to waste time debating whether administrators are taking the piss or not is to miss the point completely.

If you want to get specific, true disruption makes something simpler and more convenient than it was before or serves a new market that didn't exist before a concept evolved; running a race across a bridge might disrupt traffic, but it doesn't simplify the sport of racing for a mass audience.

But because Racing NSW has an obvious want to throw a rabid fox into a chicken coop by dropping these ideas, we may not be far away from a truly disruptive concept that changes Australian racing forever.

And because he and his team are setting the pace, the ball is very much in Peter V'Landys' court.

Whether The Everest concept is without fault or has a long term future, or if horses really do have a place racing on a drop in track across an iconic Australian landmark, V'Landys already has every other racing administrator in the country in a flutter - whether they admit to it or not - as they dive for over and deflect "whaddya going to do about this?" questioning.

But V'Landys cannot be satisfied with that result alone.

His job, as he said on RSN Radio last week, is to achieve the best commercial results for New South Wales racing, and this is true, but surely that mission starts on a far smaller scale than headline grabbing distractions.

Because those big investment, big ticket ideas won't change racing long term and eventually commentators will find something else to be outraged about or to support with blind faith.

This is an industry ripe for drastic renovation from the way a horse is bought and sold through to how a race day is run and how participants are engaged and empowered; sadly, that renovation isn't addressed with food and beverage discounts or free entry.

The sport is stagnant and recruitment of new customers and participants is an ongoing battle for all jurisdictions as is the fight for legitimacy within the hearts and minds of Australians outside of a two month spring carnival.

And it's not a matter of replicating what other sports have done in our own backyard; 20/20 Cricket has provided a much needed spark for cricket but is simply shortening a race day and letting off some fireworks the right solution for racing?

AFLW has given a legitimate and long term place on the field to footy loving females, but would a female only racing circuit provide the same inspiration in racing?

Racing is a unique sport and requires unique thought, innovation, and disruption. The Everest and a Harbour Bridge race are more promotional tools than anything strikingly sustainable, but the thought is at least heading in the right direction.

Maybe Racing NSW comes out next week and announces a proposal to take Winx to the moon, and cue the outcry from those that love tail chasing public debate if they do, but what we need from Racing NSW next are real solutions to real issues that the Australian racing industry faces.

And if V'Landys wants to be remembered as a truly innovative and disruptive racing administrator, he and his team will be working just as hard on those little ideas that could change the sport forever.

https://www.g1x.com.au/news/racing/comment-next-move-for-nsw-is-key
 
 
 
 
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2017-Apr-19, 02:10 PM
I cannot make out what Mick is trying to say. Is there a point to that article?

At the very end he says:

...but what we need from Racing NSW next are real solutions to real issues that the Australian racing industry faces.

And if V'Landys wants to be remembered as a truly innovative and disruptive racing administrator, he and his team will be working just as hard on those little ideas that could change the sport forever.

But he has supplied solutions to issues within his administrative domain.

He doesn't have administrative powers over the rest of Australia.

In fact, as I have noted before, on the ground in NSW he is a highly respected sporting administrator - there is talk of him taking up a role as NRL commissioner. He has earned this respect through his actions.

In social media, and interstate mainstream media, there seems to be this belief that he is a despised character and he is a "free target". But the ammunition is being wasted and the arrows being shot at shadows. There is nothing to fire at. There is no "war".

The "real issues" that face Australian racing can only be fixed within the respective jurisdictions. To me, an outsider looking in, the biggest issue at the moment facing Australian racing is the politicization of racing in Queensland, and the effect this is having on the morale of racing participants on that state's industry.

Apart from the RVL grab for power which the minister seems to have reigned in, I don't see many problems in Victoria. They are a bit pissed that NSW is increasing prizemoney but this is only a correction of the disastrous float of the NSW TAB where the industry got zilch for implied ownership (unlike Victoria where they got a slice of pokie money), and tax parity coming in. There is nothing more to this. They'll get over it with their $100 million in the bank   :lol:

South Australia has some serious issues, about to get worse if the "place of consumption" betting tax goes ahead on July 1.

None of these issues can be fixed by Peter V'Landys. So without any specific suggestions, I don't know what the point is to that article. Looks to be very subjective without clearly elucidating what needs to be done (or what the author thinks needs to be done).
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2017-Jun-22, 06:55 PM
V'landys and another Rake hike.

As you lot bitch about Corporates.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/nsw-racing-most-expensive-product-to-offer-in-world-claim-betfair-as-fees-soar-20170622-gww5gy.html
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2017-Jun-22, 07:56 PM


......... at least in NSW punters get a run for their money with metropolitan racing................south of the Murray, modest punting sheep put through the metropolitan sheds , lose the lot.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: dean on 2017-Jun-22, 08:12 PM
He has escaped from the rubber room again.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Authorized on 2017-Jun-23, 10:57 AM
Peter V'Landys

Friday, 23 June 2017
Betfair’s Mythical Argument
 

Racing NSW refutes Betfair’s claim that NSW racing should charge race fields fees that suits Betfair’s business model.

On every $1 bet placed by a punter on a NSW thoroughbred standard race meeting with corporate bookmakers and Betfair, they currently pay 1.5 cents to the NSW racing industry. The NSW TAB pays up to 7 cents to the NSW racing industry on every $1 bet on a NSW thoroughbred standard race meeting. Accordingly, the NSW TAB pays over four times as much as the other wagering operators.

Betfair seeks more favourable treatment than all other wagering operators and to pay only 1 cent to the NSW thoroughbred racing industry on every $1 bet. It uses a flawed argument that the 1 cent return to the NSW thoroughbred racing industry is what Betfair allowed in its business model and racing should charge it less so that it can make a larger profit.

That's like an Uber driver allowing 50 cents a litre for petrol in his business model then expecting the petrol station owner who is selling the petrol for a $1.10 a litre to drop his price to the 50 cents a litre in order to accommodate the Uber driver’s business model. Naturally, the petrol station owner is not going to sell it for less than what it costs him.

Both the Full Bench of the Federal Court and the Full Bench of the High Court of Australia unanimously rejected this ridiculous notion.

As mentioned above, the fee for standard race meetings, being the vast majority of meetings in NSW, is currently 1.5 cents in every $1 bet. This has not increased since 2008. In 2008 when the 1.5 cents charge was initially introduced, corporate bookmakers who have sustainable business models were generating a profit of 6 cents in every $1 bet on NSW thoroughbred race meetings. They are now generating on average12 cents profit on every $1 bet on NSW thoroughbred meetings.

The half of one cent increase from 1 July 2017 has absolutely no effect on the recreational punter who are responsible for over 90% of total betting turnover on all wagering operators’ turnover. If Betfair passes the charge on because of its flawed business model, it will only affect the large scale punters who work on taking a percentage of recreational punters’ losses. Recreational punters as a group on Betfair lose on average 20% of their investments, a percentage of which goes to the large scales punters. Racing NSW has always had a proud record of looking after the punters and believes that this increase has no effect on the majority of punters.

Racing NSW will distribute record prizemoney of $230 million in the 2018 financial year. However, when you take out the trainers, jockeys, strappers and animal welfare percentages of 18%, owners will receive approximately $189 million. Owners as a group in NSW pay in excess of $350 million annually in costs just to sustain the horse to compete costs. Accordingly, those owners still sustain losses of over $161 million per annum.

This continual subsidisation by owners has had an effect with horse registrations nationally dropping alarmingly by 14.4% since 2008. Without owners, there are no horses and we would not be having this debate. Racing NSW needs to ensure that the NSW thoroughbred racing industry stays viable and that the income levels of participants, which in the vast majority are modest, are not reduced by giving wagering operators unduly favourable treatment.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2017-Jun-23, 11:34 AM
Outrageous V'landys speak.

The fact is Betfair will pay 56% of its gross revenue to RNSW.

From the 44% left there are pesky things like taxes and operating costs to be paid.

If everyone charged as much as RNSW, Betfair would not be able to stay in business.

My bet is some Triads are doing cart wheels as a result of this development.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Gintara on 2017-Jun-23, 06:14 PM
Peter V'Landys

Friday, 23 June 2017
Betfair’s Mythical Argument

Racing NSW refutes Betfair’s claim that NSW racing should charge race fields fees that suits Betfair’s business model.

On every $1 bet placed by a punter on a NSW thoroughbred standard race meeting with corporate bookmakers and Betfair, they currently pay 1.5 cents to the NSW racing industry. The NSW TAB pays up to 7 cents to the NSW racing industry on every $1 bet on a NSW thoroughbred standard race meeting. Accordingly, the NSW TAB pays over four times as much as the other wagering operators.

Betfair seeks more favourable treatment than all other wagering operators and to pay only 1 cent to the NSW thoroughbred racing industry on every $1 bet. It uses a flawed argument that the 1 cent return to the NSW thoroughbred racing industry is what Betfair allowed in its business model and racing should charge it less so that it can make a larger profit.

That's like an Uber driver allowing 50 cents a litre for petrol in his business model then expecting the petrol station owner who is selling the petrol for a $1.10 a litre to drop his price to the 50 cents a litre in order to accommodate the Uber driver’s business model. Naturally, the petrol station owner is not going to sell it for less than what it costs him.

Both the Full Bench of the Federal Court and the Full Bench of the High Court of Australia unanimously rejected this ridiculous notion.

As mentioned above, the fee for standard race meetings, being the vast majority of meetings in NSW, is currently 1.5 cents in every $1 bet. This has not increased since 2008. In 2008 when the 1.5 cents charge was initially introduced, corporate bookmakers who have sustainable business models were generating a profit of 6 cents in every $1 bet on NSW thoroughbred race meetings. They are now generating on average12 cents profit on every $1 bet on NSW thoroughbred meetings.

The half of one cent increase from 1 July 2017 has absolutely no effect on the recreational punter who are responsible for over 90% of total betting turnover on all wagering operators’ turnover. If Betfair passes the charge on because of its flawed business model, it will only affect the large scale punters who work on taking a percentage of recreational punters’ losses. Recreational punters as a group on Betfair lose on average 20% of their investments, a percentage of which goes to the large scales punters. Racing NSW has always had a proud record of looking after the punters and believes that this increase has no effect on the majority of punters.

Racing NSW will distribute record prizemoney of $230 million in the 2018 financial year. However, when you take out the trainers, jockeys, strappers and animal welfare percentages of 18%, owners will receive approximately $189 million. Owners as a group in NSW pay in excess of $350 million annually in costs just to sustain the horse to compete costs. Accordingly, those owners still sustain losses of over $161 million per annum.

This continual subsidisation by owners has had an effect with horse registrations nationally dropping alarmingly by 14.4% since 2008. Without owners, there are no horses and we would not be having this debate. Racing NSW needs to ensure that the NSW thoroughbred racing industry stays viable and that the income levels of participants, which in the vast majority are modest, are not reduced by giving wagering operators unduly favourable treatment.


I've read some dribble in my time but this takes the cake.

No mention of what the TAB's fixed betting or corporate arm (Luxbet) pays?

He then rabbits on about large punters gouging the loses of rec punters ..... again no mention of the kickbacks paid by TAB to certain punters?

PV is clearly great at spin & bullshit  emthdown
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2017-Jun-23, 07:27 PM
From my recollection was it not V'Landys who once said the average punter would not know whether 15% or 25% was deducted as commision from a TAB pool,and in his latest rant he reckons those "recreational " punters have been ripped of by "large scale " punters.
Give me a break.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2017-Jun-23, 07:46 PM
Bubbs, he was spot on
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2017-Jun-23, 08:24 PM
WOD, of course he is right and probably believes "recreational punters" will accept his argument for increasing taxation on Betfair.You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.

Way back when I started this thread in January 2014. V'Landys plucked the figure that all punters lose 20% of their turnover and in his latest rant he still talks about that 20% loss by "recreational punters".
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2017-Jun-23, 08:41 PM
I agree. You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.

In saying that I'm sure betfair are a long way removed from "all of the people"

In fact I'd say they are irrelevant
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: ratsack on 2017-Jun-23, 11:47 PM
so i take it that V'Landys sets all the take out rates ?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2017-Jun-24, 07:04 AM
Personally I couldn't care less about Betfair. Charge them 5%.

Unless you are drooling over the terminal in the last few minutes before they jump it is next to useless.

If all states turned around and charged them 5% then we can send one corporate bookmaker packing back to England. One less competitor.  :bulb:

They have never seemed interested in putting in for the costs of running racing. I remember Andrew Twaits carrying on when he was in charge at Betfair when the Racefields court case was on. They took it all the way to the High Court to try and get out of paying their fair share - and lost.

They welched on me for a lousy $100 once - never forgotten that. I've returned well over $100 in "free publicity" since  :lol:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Gintara on 2017-Jun-24, 04:08 PM

Unless you are drooling over the terminal in the last few minutes before they jump it is next to useless.


Wrong PP


They have never seemed interested in putting in for the costs of running racing.

My eyes must have been playing up then, all those signs dotted around racetracks must have been freebies then  :chin:

The last thing we won't is to lose competition.  :bulb:

PV showed total contempt for the greyhound industry, he deserves to be called to account for his spin & bullshit.  :whistle:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2017-Jun-25, 09:38 PM

Running Betfair out of town will in time be shown to be the silliest thing RNSW ever did.

The only thing Betfair offered was a fair go for punters -- any bet to win matched by a bet to lose.

What is wrecking racing is the high prizemoney  and paying losers to go for a run -- it becomes too lucrative to 'get one ready' or 'set one up' and too easy to smoke it in under the radar in a race likely to be unfairly crowded.

If 'connections' were more dependent on recovering costs from placing winning bets, any smoking behaviour would be more evident before the last few minutes of betting and the number of acceptors would be less in deference to the expected betting market.

Tighter control of the disclosure of training routines -- al la HK and SG -- would also assist the management of integrity: as is, in Australia, there is a standing invitation to rort the system.

Australia is now an outlier in terms of the relative weight of rubbish racing run -- and the number of addicts is dying out.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2017-Jun-26, 08:28 AM

The case for taxing Betfair on gross profit and not gross turnover could hardly be better put than this:

Racing NSW chief executive Peter V'landys made the most interesting point in his response to Betfair's complaints about the hike in race fees and its statement that it would have to raise its maximum base rate to 10 per cent because of the impact.

"In 2008, when the 1.5 cents charge was initially introduced, corporate bookmakers who have sustainable business models were generating a profit of 6 cents in every $1 bet on NSW thoroughbred race meetings. They are now generating, on average, 12 cents profit on every $1 bet on NSW thoroughbred meetings," V'landys said


Put differently, the tax rules for race betting in Australia are written to benefit the corporate bookies, that deal only with losers, and the professional syndicates knocking off the TAB pools.

Please give Betfair , and punters generally, a fair go -- tax its gross profit not its turnover.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: nemisis on 2017-Jul-10, 05:49 PM
Worth a listen to the Verdict on RSN this morning.

With V'Landy's taking a "well earned holiday", it was left to Darren Pearce to sell Sydney spring to the Victorians.
(at least we didn't have to listen to the word participants used a hundred times)

Gets a bit heated and I'm probably biased but I'll give the debate to the Vics.

For mine what's wrong with Sydney racing was on display Saturday.
The big betting drift and subsequent performance of Collateral surely would have most punters asking, why you even do this.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2017-Jul-10, 07:02 PM

The only thing Betfair offered was a fair go for punters -- any bet to win matched by a bet to lose.

That must be close ti the silliest thing you've ever posted here.
God almighty, you bang on about insider trading and knowledge yet betfair milks that very thing for every cent. It gives a home to the crooks that you squeal about but I guess that's toooo logical an argument for you
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2017-Jul-10, 07:06 PM

The big betting drift and subsequent performance of Collateral surely would have most punters asking, why you even do this.

Cant agree mate, the betting drift was because the horse was at a stupid price during the week and drifted accordingly.  Personally, I left it out of my trifecta. didn't like it at all after that last run
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Dave on 2017-Jul-10, 07:28 PM
People who complain about Collateral did not look at the big pic, he is trained by a Chemist, he had other shortpriced stablemates run even worse...........and the trainer was on holidays! If you backed Collateral or Your away you got what you deserve for not doing your due diligence, they were great lays.........and I don't lay horses......silly me
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2017-Jul-10, 10:16 PM


Betfair made every punter a bookmaker -- one wins / one loses: that's fair!

Running Betfair out of town will in time be shown to be the silliest thing RNSW ever did.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2017-Jul-11, 12:49 AM
Worth a listen to the Verdict on RSN this morning.

With V'Landy's taking a "well earned holiday", it was left to Darren Pearce to sell Sydney spring to the Victorians.
(at least we didn't have to listen to the word participants used a hundred times)

Gets a bit heated and I'm probably biased but I'll give the debate to the Vics.

For mine what's wrong with Sydney racing was on display Saturday.
The big betting drift and subsequent performance of Collateral surely would have most punters asking, why you even do this.

Interesting  :chin:

Why is it incumbent upon Darren Pearce or Peter V'Landys to "sell" the Sydney spring to the Victorian media.   :what:

And what is "wrong" with Sydney racing? Collateral? Is that the best you can do?

With major Cobalt cases still being outstanding, the entire RVL board being dismissed, internal criticisms about Victorian racing funds being spent on buying media rights for SA racing with no obvious return, the chief steward having his front door shot up, Danny Nikolic, Bill Vlahos, a Harness racing industry with all sorts of integrity issues - have I missed anything? - we could only wish for the "interesting times" that are happening south of the Murray.

Collateral? You really are scraping the bottom of the barrel there mate. Is that the worst thing that is wrong with us   :lol:

Noted that a lot of Victorian trainers that don't have stables up here are often starting their horses in Sydney of a Saturday - Darren Weir had 7 the other day. You rarely see the other way around (Waller has a permanent table setup in Melbourne unlike trainers like Corstens, Oliver, etc who are regular visitors without permanent stables).

Why don't RSN ask them if they think there is too much wrong with Sydney racing  :chin:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2017-Jul-11, 01:06 AM
Another "gong" for V'Landys?

Nominations In NSW Go Through The Roof

The huge number of nominations in New South Wales during the past week offers a prime indication that racing is flourishing in the ‘premier state’.

For the seven days commencing from last Monday’s Taree meeting (3 July) to this afternoon’s Wagga and Grafton programs, there were 13 professional race meetings programmed. Each of those meetings attracted more than 100 nominations; from 114 nominations at Muswellbrook last Tuesday to today’s Grafton meeting that received a massive 194 nominations.

Veteran statistician, Gowan Williams, said: “I cannot remember seeing more than 100 nominations for every single professional meeting in this State for a very long time. In all there were 2039 nominations and that equated to an average of 157 per race meeting.”

And further good news for NSW racing came in the form of an announcement by Racing NSW on Thursday. The Everest race meeting on Saturday 14 October will coincide with a two-year anniversary of the launch of the hugely popular TAB Highway race series.

The Board of Racing NSW recognised the milestone by adding a $200,000 Anniversary Highway race to the card of the inaugural The Everest raceday.

“Saturday October 14 will be an historic event for thoroughbred racing in Australia and will reinforce Sydney’s positon as a leading global event city,” said Racing NSW Chairman, Mr Russell Balding AO.

Grand Proposal, trained by Neville Layt, won the inaugural TAB Highway Handicap back in October 2015 beating Invienna and Onemoregypsy when ridden by Winona Costin. The first five horses in that event went over the line within a length of each other, setting a precedent for many exciting and close finishes in the two years of Highways since.

http://www.racingnsw.com.au/latest-news-display/Nominations-In-NSW-Go-Through-The-Roof/23263

Country racing has never been stronger in NSW and that assists in making healthier rural economies.

Gotta say though that the field sizes at the provincial meetings at places like Gosford still seem to be small.

$30k for each race tomorrow and only 5 stayers turning up for the 2100m Race 1  :chin:

Probably only a matter of time before the astute Victorian and Queensland trainers cotton on to this.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: nemisis on 2017-Jul-11, 07:45 AM
Interesting  :chin:

Why is it incumbent upon Darren Pearce or Peter V'Landys to "sell" the Sydney spring to the Victorian media.   :what:

And what is "wrong" with Sydney racing? Collateral? Is that the best you can do?

With major Cobalt cases still being outstanding, the entire RVL board being dismissed, internal criticisms about Victorian racing funds being spent on buying media rights for SA racing with no obvious return, the chief steward having his front door shot up, Danny Nikolic, Bill Vlahos, a Harness racing industry with all sorts of integrity issues - have I missed anything? - we could only wish for the "interesting times" that are happening south of the Murray.

Collateral? You really are scraping the bottom of the barrel there mate. Is that the worst thing that is wrong with us    :lol:  

Noted that a lot of Victorian trainers that don't have stables up here are often starting their horses in Sydney of a Saturday - Darren Weir had 7 the other day. You rarely see the other way around (Waller has a permanent table setup in Melbourne unlike trainers like Corstens, Oliver, etc who are regular visitors without permanent stables).

Why don't RSN ask them if they think there is too much wrong with Sydney racing  :chin:
You should listen to the debate PP7.

What surprised me was RNSW's blatant disregard of the national pattern committee.
It sounds very selfish to me.

I don't bet a lot in Sydney because there is too many races that have a smell to them.
The betting on Saturday told us that Collateral was never going to win that race and plenty knew.
Is Victoria any better? ......maybe.....maybe not.

Victorian racing just interests me more.



Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2017-Jul-11, 10:21 AM
You should listen to the debate PP7.

What surprised me was RNSW's blatant disregard of the national pattern committee.
It sounds very selfish to me.

I don't bet a lot in Sydney because there is too many races that have a smell to them.
The betting on Saturday told us that Collateral was never going to win that race and plenty knew.
Is Victoria any better? ......maybe.....maybe not.

Victorian racing just interests me more.

Well good luck to you betting on Victorian racing mate. Hope you don't go broke   :lol:

I had to tip at the Echuca meeting yesterday in the tipping comp in 10 races. The first favourite won then a procession of 9 failures by favourites, some of them really miserable failures and they appeared to go backwards many lengths on form. One race was won first up by an 8yo who had never won first up before in his career.

Unless you are laying favourites I can't see how you can make money out of Victorian racing. Those oversized fields on tracks that have some question marks over them. What about Flemington on Saturday? That was a much bigger deal to me than Collateral. If your horse wasn't one or two off the rails in the last 200m it was "in the glue".

Official flucs for Collateral we

$3.20/$4.20/$4.40/$4.60

I've seen much worse than that.

Collateral has always been a run on horse.

On Saturday he was last at the 800m

Start before he was last at the 800m

Start before that he was 7th of 11 at the 800m

He was ridden for the first time by an inexperienced apprentice - I don't want to bag the guy because he is learning his trade but if you look at his riding record he doesn't get that many mounts and I reckon there is a reason for that that is not related to anything illegal

http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/JockeyLastRuns.aspx?jockeycode=MTgxNDE4ODk5Mg%3d%3d

As I said, scraping the bottom of the barrel  :no:

Can you tell me another race that was, in your's and the Victorian media's opinion (it should be stressed) that was dubious?

Racing NSW and the integrity of it's stewards leads the way in Australian racing. Have done so since they recruited "The Sherrif" all those years ago.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: nemisis on 2017-Jul-11, 10:24 AM
What a difference a day makes.

Very comfortable for Darren Pearce on Racing NSW's publicity arm, Sky racing this morning.
Pattern committee doesn't get a mention and not a curly question in sight from "Coshee"

Sky must love their compliant commentators.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2017-Jul-11, 10:31 AM
What a difference a day makes.

Very comfortable for Darren Pearce on Racing NSW's publicity arm, Sky racing this morning.
Pattern committee doesn't get a mention and not a curly question in sight from "Coshee"

Sky must love their compliant commentators.

There was probably no mention of the Pattern Committee because it is a non-issue. Fake news invented by the Victorian media to redirect attention off their own integrity issues.

There is no "flagrant disregard" for the pattern committee. If there was then the Group  classifications wouldn't be observed by NSW, and they are.

Having said that, people should be allowed to express an opinion about what races should be graded at what level.

My opinion is that both NSW and Victoria are being very generous to other states who appear to be allowed to maintain Listed status on races where the prizemoney has fallen below that of a standard Saturday Sydney or Melbourne race but you will never ever get the negative nellies in the Victorian media calling for some recognition given to that fact  :no:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: nemisis on 2017-Jul-11, 10:41 AM
Well good luck to you betting on Victorian racing mate. Hope you don't go broke    :lol:  

I had to tip at the Echuca meeting yesterday in the tipping comp in 10 races. The first favourite won then a procession of 9 failures by favourites, some of them really miserable failures and they appeared to go backwards many lengths on form. One race was won first up by an 8yo who had never won first up before in his career.

Unless you are laying favourites I can't see how you can make money out of Victorian racing. Those oversized fields on tracks that have some question marks over them. What about Flemington on Saturday? That was a much bigger deal to me than Collateral. If your horse wasn't one or two off the rails in the last 200m it was "in the glue".

Official flucs for Collateral we






$3.20/$4.20/$4.40/$4.60

I've seen much worse than that.

Collateral has always been a run on horse.

On Saturday he was last at the 800m

Start before he was last at the 800m

Start before that he was 7th of 11 at the 800m

He was ridden for the first time by an inexperienced apprentice - I don't want to bag the guy because he is learning his trade but if you look at his riding record he doesn't get that many mounts and I reckon there is a reason for that that is not related to anything illegal

http://racing.racingnsw.com.au/InteractiveForm/JockeyLastRuns.aspx?jockeycode=MTgxNDE4ODk5Mg%3d%3d

As I said, scraping the bottom of the barrel  :no:

Can you tell me another race that was, in your's and the Victorian media's opinion (it should be stressed) that was dubious?

Racing NSW and the integrity of it's stewards leads the way in Australian racing. Have done so since they recruited "The Sherrif" all those years ago.
The best way to manipulate a race is by pace.

Bring a favoured front runner down by pressuring it.

Bring a favoured backmarker down through lack of pace.
 Seems like a lot of people knew there wasn't going to be a lot of pace on Sat.

Can't agree about the stewardship PP7.
Ray Murrihy had been asleep at the wheel for quite sometime.
I don't think he knew how to handle "Wallerism".

After the weekend I am broke anyway.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2017-Jul-11, 11:00 AM
What is "Wallerism"?  I suppose if we have "Wallerism" we must also start talking about "Weirism"  ;)

Both men have got where they are through hard work and being adept at what they do and do not deserve non-specific accusations from the public.

Back on Collateral, your implying that the race was rigged because of the slow pace. What are you saying. That we should assume that every race where there is a slow pace is rigged?

Do you or your mates down south have any corroborating evidence for that outrageous accusation?

No mention of the rise in weight. No mention of the change from a senior jockey to an apprentice. No mention of the fact that there was no pace on paper (commented on before the race and probably the main reason the horse eased in the market).

Bottom of the barrel mate. Things must be going OK in Sydney if that is the best that people can come up with. That is nearly as bad as the "too much prizemoney" criticism we often see.

Let's be brutally frank here.

Victorians, and in particular their racing media, have their noses out of joint because of The Everest, and the fact it is being run on the same day as the Caulfield carnival.

But trying to say that Sydney racing is rigged with vague references to Chris Waller is a bit "below the belt" fighting if you get my drift. Especially from a state where they have all sorts of integrity issues (refer threads titled Sal Perna, Cobalt, Bill Vlahos, etc, etc.)

If you have a criticism of Sydney racing, by all means go and knock yourself out and make them in a clear and concise way.

But that Collateral rubbish being peddled? Please  :no:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: nemisis on 2017-Jul-11, 11:35 AM
 For sure compare "Wallerism" to "Weirism" ...no difference.
Hard workers......no question.

It's  more the fact of the power they have over the industry.
 
 As racing battles to have the same sort of relevance it once had, it is clear that  the racing industry only wants good publicity.

Racing NSW's demands it........Who wants to under the control of bullies?

Doesn't the betting on that race suggest a bit of a smell to you?

BTW I live 80km from Sydney.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2017-Jul-11, 12:16 PM
Mate my final word. I'm on holidays relaxing and getting ready to go to the wonderful two day carnival in Grafton Wed/Thurs.

There was no "smell" to the Collateral race to me whatsoever. I could probably go and find a similar betting drift in Victoria on Saturday but cannot see the point. This to me is a non story.

Also, I don't believe that Racing NSW is putting good PR above everything else. In fact, if they were then there would not be threads such as this one and all the rocks being thrown at PVL.

Not only is he doing a fantastic job in running racing in NSW (cue my mate Gintara or jfc to refute that), but this siege mentality from the Melbourne Racing clubs, RVL and the media is all misplaced. They seem to think that there is some huge following of anti PVL followers and they can downgrade the status of The Everest by some sort of public ridicule of the CEO and false (implied) allegations of rigged races.

But on the ground in NSW PVL is extremely popular in wide circles, especially country racing and in the Macquarie media.

All this negative stuff is wasted breath. If RSN, Bruce Clarke, racing.com, RVL whoever want to throw rocks at PVL then go and knock yourself out fellas.

If it is a war (and I don't think people in NSW think they are at war - this is the siege mentality at work) then the old quote from Napoleon seems apt- "never interrupt your enemy while he is making a ,mistake"   :lol:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: nemisis on 2017-Jul-11, 01:14 PM
Have a good holiday PP7.

You have plenty of respect from me on here.

Just can't always agree.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: sobig on 2017-Jul-11, 03:03 PM
Just a point on the claim that the pattern committee should have had input into the NSW spring changes,

Their guidelines allow a group race to be changed by up to 2 weeks with no pattern change.

As no races involved are at this stage looking for pattern changes there is no need for the committee's involvement.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Gintara on 2017-Jul-12, 07:36 AM

What surprised me was RNSW's blatant disregard of the national pattern committee.
It sounds very selfish to me.



Selfish & PV / RNSW go hand in hand.

You only had to listen & see his actions during last years greyhound debate to know that. He was a vulture circling dead carcass.

Stuff you Jack, we're alright was alive and well emthdown
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2017-Sep-13, 06:14 AM

Can't find any other details about this curious claim.

Anyway,

Turnover is misleading. All it means is migration from Totes to Corporates continues.

Revenue rises probably mean increased Rakes for Premium programs that attendees stay away from in droves.

As well as dudding government morons to take money away from schools and hospitals in favour of providing facilities for any collar criminals to socialise and abuse substances.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2018-Aug-18, 12:59 PM
On 10 @1330 today.

V'landys to yak on about his favourite subject.


https://www.ebroadcast.com.au/tv/detail.php?id=23324096&fta=1&fox=0
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Aug-18, 01:28 PM

Anyway,

Turnover is misleading. All it means is migration from Totes to Corporates continues.


But he is commenting on the rise in turnover on NSW racing as the head of Racing NSW.

You must be confusing him with the head of TABCorp or perhaps the NSW Racing Minister  :chin:

If the government needs more money for schools they should bring a Point Of Consumption tax or something like that...oh hang on....

V'Landys and Racing NSW are totally unrelated to the Government and TABCorp.

They represent the industry participants including the lowly paid stable workers as discussed yesterday on the Victorian Racing news thread.

This is just more of your anti V'Landys guff that had it's genesis out of him winning the court case against Betfair all those years ago. If you were genuine in your concern for "hospitals and schools" you would also criticize RVL for doing the exact same thing but we all know that you are being disingenuous  ;)
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2018-Aug-18, 05:14 PM
I don't follow RVL.

I can't help following V'landys given his clear crusade to destroy all punters bar Zeljko.

You are dead wrong in claiming no relationship between V'landys, government and Tabcorp.

V'landys boasts about how much control he has over Tabcorp.

And the government is grossly incompetent in diverting our money away from essential services and towards brown-nosed white-collar fat cats.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Aug-18, 06:32 PM

V'landys boasts about how much control he has over Tabcorp.


Can you show me what leads you to that conclusion? Where has he boasted how much control he has over TABCorp? I doubt that very much.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2018-Aug-18, 06:45 PM
I have better things to do.

As I recall my comment is spot on.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Aug-18, 06:49 PM
I have better things to do.

As I recall my comment is spot on.

Aaahhhh. The old obfuscation trick  ;)

V'Landys would never ever go in public and "boast" that he has power over TABCorp. He would not be as successful in his job if he did so. In fact he comes across more as a very good diplomat rather than a modern day social media attention seeker posting thought bubbles whenever they occur.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2018-Aug-18, 07:03 PM
You continue to be dead wrong.

V'landys has in fact boasted just that.

I've had a number of runs in with his ilk in my time at the track.

Scum who think they can play by their own white bread corporate crim rules.

Funny thing is I'm still around while many of my privileged opponents aren't.



Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Aug-18, 09:10 PM
You continue to be dead wrong.

V'landys has in fact boasted just that.

I've had a number of runs in with his ilk in my time at the track.

Scum who think they can play by their own white bread corporate crim rules.

Funny thing is I'm still around while many of my privileged opponents aren't.

So you know that he has boasted that because you've had run ins with "his ilk"  :what:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Authorized on 2018-Sep-24, 11:58 AM
Is Peter VLandys currently involved in court proceedings and if so what is it about ?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2018-Sep-24, 01:52 PM
I just love the comments about this latest v'Landys megaphone diplomacy.

Not sure what it means but I suspect he wants punters and taxpayers to shovel more money towards his fat cat friends.

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/peter-v-landys--why-are-we-hiding-the-bridge-20180920

(https://www.nfsa.gov.au/sites/g/files/net1791/f/styles/img768x0/public/03-2017/the_bridge_constructing_australia-6.jpg?itok=WYlv1yTN)
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: nemisis on 2018-Sep-25, 10:09 AM
Is Peter VLandys currently involved in court proceedings and if so what is it about ?
If you google State Insurance Regulatory Authority meets with RNSW........that could be what you have heard about.

It's basically that RNSW Workers Compensation Scheme may be in breach of the Workers Compensation Act.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Authorized on 2018-Sep-25, 10:10 AM
If you google State Insurance Regulatory Authority meets with RNSW........that could be what you have heard about.

It's basically that RNSW Workers Compensation Scheme may be in breach of the Workers Compensation Act.

 ())=(
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: nemisis on 2018-Sep-26, 08:56 AM
It would be fair to say that P V'landys original projections for the Kosciuszko have been a bit of a miss.
Part of the early spin was that 250,000 raffle tickets at $5 ea would provide the $1.3mil stake.

Even allowing for some very generous rounding up for ticket sales, he still has missed his target by 50k which equates to $250,000
Given that $125,000 was given to the drought relief fund and the costs associated with setting up ticket vending machines it looks like the race sponsor and RNSW have quite a shortfall to make up.

Hard to argue with the Victorian perception of V'landys that he not scrutinised.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2018-Sep-26, 09:32 PM

.........transparency and accountability

The numbers around the funding of the kosciuszko kaper need to be disclosed -- not least the money put in from race-clubs in rural areas 'on behalf of members'.

The concept was flawed and the outcome will be flawed -- it is beyond belief that punters were hyped into buying 'tickets' to fund the prize-money.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: gunbower on 2018-Sep-26, 10:02 PM
"V'Landys and Racing NSW are totally unrelated to the Government and TABCorp."

Gee there was I thinking Racing NSW existed as a result of an act of the NSW Government. Strewth must have been established under an Act of the South Australian Government or maybe even the Papua New Guinea Government. PP give yourself an uppercut.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Sep-26, 10:44 PM
"V'Landys and Racing NSW are totally unrelated to the Government and TABCorp."

Gee there was I thinking Racing NSW existed as a result of an act of the NSW Government. Strewth must have been established under an Act of the South Australian Government or maybe even the Papua New Guinea Government. PP give yourself an uppercut.

If you are going to quote me can you quote the post properly so I can see it in context? Is it too much to ask?

I don't know what the f. you are rabbiting on about now - geez I must get up your gander   :lol:

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2018-Sep-27, 08:16 AM
I have little knowledge of Ole Pete's relationships with the PNG or NSW governments or with Tabcorp, but his relationship with Racing Victoria would not be great. I doubt he will get an invite to the committee room of the VRC on Cup Day, or any day for that matter.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: richo on 2018-Sep-28, 08:25 AM
as an owner and ex trainer my opinion is peter vlandys has been a breath of fresh air especially for country racing around 10 years ago we were racing for around $2000 to win a race now its $11500 and prizemoney down to 10th and highway races and country championships make it viable to attract more people into ownership the punters on here seem to be complaining about him but punting revenue must be up because prizemoney comes mainly from the punters. vlandys may not be perfect but hes the best thing for nsw racing in a long time.imo
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2018-Sep-28, 08:59 AM
as an owner and ex trainer my opinion is peter vlandys has been a breath of fresh air especially for country racing around 10 years ago we were racing for around $2000 to win a race now its $11500 ........
the punters on here seem to be complaining about him but punting revenue must be up because prizemoney comes mainly from the punters.
NSW and Victorian TAB commission used to be limited to 16% over a financial year. However in 2007 this limit was eliminated under the pretext that punters wouldn't be worse off. At the time, Tabcorp's Robert Nason trumpeted "Punters will not lose out as the commissions charged on existing bets will remain the same."

Since then, overall commissions have increased to almost 17% of turnover with high-commissioned quaddies, BIg 6s, and First 4s gaining an increasing percentage of bets and, together with Tabcorp's promotion of "guaranteed" and jackpot pool sizes on those bet types the overall commission has jumped far beyond that 16% ( excluding fractions).

Very simply, had the 16% limit on overall commission remained in force, some bet types would have required reductions in their commission rates, but, as usual, punters have been screwed, in part, by legislators with an insufficient knowledge of gambling.

It is 11 years since that overall commission rate of 16% has been removed and as richo points out prize money has escalated over the past 10 years. It is obvious, even to Blind Freddy, it is due to punters paying an overall higher commission rate.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2018-Sep-28, 09:32 AM
It is obvious, even to Blind Freddy, it is due to punters paying an overall higher commission rate.

Are you being critical of that?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2018-Sep-28, 09:44 AM
WOD, do you not think that the TAB will not have another go at increasing its deduction rate, convincing naive legislators that punters , like smokers and drinkers, are there for the taking when it comes to governments needing more money ?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2018-Sep-28, 09:47 AM
Sorry mate but I dont really care if they do. They are not a monopoly anymore, people can bet anywhere and the market will decide
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Sep-28, 02:27 PM
It is obvious, even to Blind Freddy, it is due to punters paying an overall higher commission rate.

In NSW the government is taking a lower takeout.

As has been pointed out in these pages for years   :biggrin:  Victoria enjoyed a distinct advantage in revenue because when their TAB was floated the Vic State government at the time compensated any "implied ownership" of racing with actual percentage share of gaming (poker machine) revenue. The anti-gambling Catholic right wing treasurer Michael Egan would allow no such thing for NSW when their TAB was floated.

This is why Victoria galloped ahead of the rest of Australia for a long time and is a fact rarely acknowledged by Victorian racing officialdom.
.
NSW has achieved what is called "tax parity" with Victoria whereby the government takeout of wagering revenue will be eventually equal to that of Victoria.

The current prizemoney increases are a direct cause of the correction of the tax parity issue.

Added to this Racing NSW has convinced the State Government to invest direct in The Championships and The Everest as part of a broader strategy to increase event driven economic benefits - not dissimilar to what Victorian racing has ben getting for years.

A lot of the anti Racing NSW commentary here is ill informed because it is written without acknowledgment of the above unlevel playing field that has been in existence for many years.

Any comparisons between  racing in Victoria and the rest of Australia should acknowledge the extra money they have been getting from their state government and poker machines for years, otherwise it is just pure Victorian "chest beating".
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Sep-28, 02:36 PM
Back on the 16th June 2015......

Tax rates on racing bets in NSW will be brought into line with Victoria’s to boost the industry’s competitiveness and make NSW the premier racing state.

The NSW Government’s take from each bet has always exceeded that of Victoria’s and Queensland’s. It is now more than double, with NSW taxing $3.22 per $100 wagered compared to just $1.28 in Victoria.

Deputy Premier and Minister for Racing Troy Grant said change was needed to ensure the racing industry thrived in NSW and was competitive with other states.

"The industry is worth $3.3 billion per year to NSW and employs almost 56,000 people - we want to secure its future for the economy and the race-going public,’’ Mr Grant said.

"Such an important industry needs to be able to compete on a level playing field, otherwise we’re sending jobs and investment interstate.’’

The new racing tax scheme begins on 1 January 2016. It will involve a five-year step-down in the Government’s take on bets to reach parity with Victoria in 2019-20.

Over this period, $235 million will return to industry across the state. This will be done in consultation with racing bodies to develop and sustain premier racing events, strengthen regional clubs and grow apprenticeships.

"Investments will be made in line with each code’s strategic plan which is developed

and agreed to by both government and industry," Mr Grant said.

https://www.justice.nsw.gov.au/Pages/media-news/media-releases/2015/tax-parity-make-nsw-premier-racing-state.aspx
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2018-Sep-28, 03:49 PM


.............anti-gambling Catholic right wing................

There is no such thing -- they all gamble and vote labor!!
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: gunbower on 2018-Sep-28, 08:34 PM
Peter , at last we have found something to agree about. Forty years ago I asked an old Uncle why he converted from being a Baptist to a Catholic. His reply was that it was so much easier for him . I remembered he said to me that the Catholics hold dear the things that were important to him ;  eternal life, punting and plenty of booze.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Sep-20, 08:14 AM


Our Pete shortchanged!

......... a snippet in a SMH story this morning suggests that  RVL has too much money and does not spend it wisely.

V’landys’ latest four-year contract took him through to the end of next year but still fell short of the reported $1.5 million package that Racing Victoria pays to chief executive Giles Thompson.


Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Authorized on 2019-Oct-05, 09:37 AM

King of sports

As boss of Racing NSW he devised an event to rival the Melbourne Cup. Now Peter V’landys has a second gig — running rugby league.

By 

Peter V’landys calls it his relationships room. The Director’s Room at Sydney’s Royal Randwick racecourse might not be the best and most luxurious in the $150 million grandstand but it is the most important for the Racing NSW boss and he knows every inch of it. There are four tiers of dining tables overlooking the turn of the famous Randwick straight, a bar and betting outlet in one corner and banks of screens showing races and odds from around the country. V’landys’ ability to work this room on the big race days is the reason the self-confessed “bogan from Wollongong” and son of Greek migrants has become, in the words of prominent bookmaker Matthew Tripp, “simply one of the most powerful people in the state of NSW, including politicians and broadcasters and whoever else”.

The room of invited guests this spring Saturday is filled with media identities from all the major Sydney newspaper and television networks, corporate bosses, Racing NSW directors and other assorted attendees. It is a quintessential Sydney scene, a mixture of politics, sport and business, and V’landys is one of the city’s quintessential power players. He has spent three decades cultivating relationships and he’s rarely still today, moving easily between guests, taking aside a company director for a quiet word and then cracking a self-deprecating joke with a gossip columnist before moving on to chat with a TAB attendant. A gregarious character, he can shift in an instant between schmoozing and serious business.

Sartorial splendour is not his thing. His suits are ill-fitting, his shirt is occasionally untucked and his shoes are perennially scuffed, a fitting look for this big personality whose relish for a stoush is almost as legendary as his penchant for tearing strips off people, not to mention his propensity to talk a big game — and then back it up. V’landys has taken on the corporate bookmakers and beaten them in the High Court, ensuring hundreds of millions of dollars in fees flow through to racing. He convinced then prime minister John Howard to help save the industry with a $235 million rescue package when equine influenza struck in 2007.

And then, not content to let Melbourne have its famous Cup, he devised a Sydney rival, The Everest, now the world’s richest turf race with $14 million in prize money. More recently he has further encroached on Victoria’s sacred Spring Racing Carnival — not just the Melbourne Cup but the Cox Plate and Caulfield Cup — by developing rival race days in Sydney and regional NSW. This spring will see $45 million worth of races run in NSW, the boldest bet yet by the state for a piece of the spotlight. V’landys says that Victoria has to get over its “sense of entitlement” to spring racing — a key time when football finals are over and before the cricket season begins.

But it’s what comes next that looms as V’landys’ biggest challenge. Having ruled over racing in NSW for 17 years as chief executive of Racing NSW, he will, after October 30, become chairman of the Australian Rugby League Commission, the governing body of the National Rugby League competition and overseer of the entire code. He decided to take on this job while still keeping his old one, doubling his power base and extending his already considerable influence.

When it comes to politics mixing with sport, rugby league has few peers. Although wildly ­popular on TV, its propensity for self-sabotage via controversial off-field behaviour by its players or boardroom infighting seems to have its sponsors on a permanent state of high alert for bad news.

V’landys, in his inimitable style and with a ­history in rugby league stretching back to his teenage years as a running backrower or lock at Wests Illawarra in Wollongong, says he’s survived enough high-level brawls to be ready for whatever comes his way. “There’s been a lot of friggin’ battles,” he says, speaking loudly and quickly and with a firm confidence. “It makes me ready for it. If there’s anybody with any more battles… well, somebody in Victoria once called me Napoleon. He’s probably right. I’ve had more friggin’ battles than any man. But it makes you stronger and it makes you more experienced… you learn from your mistakes and then don’t want to make them twice.

“I’m not delusional. I think rugby league is going to be hard. And there’s just as many self-­interest groups as there are in racing. As long as people don’t get personal and as long as people knock me for my decisions and not my person­ality, then I’ll be OK.”

V’landys — who is cagey about his age, although ASIC filings confirm that he’s 59 — will replace outgoing chairman and former Queensland premier Peter Beattie. Last month Beattie held a commission meeting that resulted in a unanimous vote for V’landys, helped by quiet support from Sydney Roosters chairman Nick Politis (coincidentally from the same Greek island of Kythira, though they barely know each other), seen as the most powerful operator in the game.

V’landys claims he will be a different sort of chairman to the camera-friendly Beattie, and will only front the public if the sport gets embroiled in a crisis. “Well, hopefully some pre-emptive work means they don’t happen as often. But I want to be quieter and let the ­executive manage the business,” he says. That remains to be seen for a person who is famous for having every decision go past his desk at Racing NSW, though he insists he will be more of a behind-the-scenes operator while dealing with the government to win more funding for the sport — and also, within the next couple of years, negotiating the league’s next ­billion-dollar media broadcast rights deal.

He can’t resist firing a warning shot to rivals in Victoria who protect the AFL franchise. “I can open doors that have previously been closed to rugby league. I can bring relationships that I have built up over time. But rugby league can’t be ­complacent. We’ve had champagne tastes with champagne revenue. We have to make sure we maintain that champagne revenue.

“One of the journos from Victoria has been telling all the AFL people, ‘You’ll be in for a ride when V’landys gets to the NRL because you’ve finally got a threat’. I find that a compliment. I’m going to do my best for rugby league as I’ve done for racing. If it means taking someone on, I’ll take them on.”

None of V’landys’ races stop the nation as ­the Melbourne Cup does, but if he has his way The Everest — a race for sprinters, as opposed to ­Melbourne’s long race for stayers — will one day rival it for interest and popularity. Businessman Gerry Harvey is one owner who has said publicly he is now more interested in The Everest (which will take place for its third year on October 19 at Randwick) than the Melbourne Cup.

The Everest runs to a different formula. Not wanting to put all the prize money up, V’landys’ plan was that horses would not have to qualify to run via the usual means. Instead, the field would have “slots” that owners would pay $1.8 million to hold over three years. They can then select a horse to fill the position — a process that not only helps fund the event but also generates publicity about who owns a runner in the race and which horse will appear in which slot.

It’s timed to land in the middle of Melbourne’s Spring Racing Carnival, leading to Racing Victoria CEO Giles Thompson saying “there’s a certain amount of envy [and] and a ‘Can I get a slice of the action’” strategy north of the border, while Victoria Racing Club president Amanda Elliott last year said V’landys was “a silly little man ­making silly decisions”. (Elliott later apologised; neither she nor Racing Victoria responded when approached for comment for this article.)

V’landys’ critics run for cover when asked for an interview but will, in off-the-record comments, say he is a bully and aggressive user of defamation lawyers. They wonder how he can hold down two jobs at the top of two different sports, and say he is ignoring conflict-of-interest concerns given he will be in charge of one sport in NSW, the chair of another one nationally, and will have to deal with media companies regarding broadcasting deals and bookmakers in both roles.

Beattie says V’landys “faced up” to questions about conflict of interest in the commission meeting. “And he said if there are direct conflicts then he will stand aside when a decision is made, which is what happens on boards,” Beattie says. “Look, there are detractors of Peter, but they are duplicitous sort of people who don’t like straightforward and honest people, necessarily. What Peter says to your face is what he will say behind your back too, and some people don’t like that.”

V’landys also brushes away concerns, confirming he will stand aside when necessary. He says the two bodies don’t directly compete and that what he learns in one role can be used in the other. But he is aware of the pitfalls. “I am a kamikaze. One day I’m going to crash and I’m aware of that. I’m ready for it,” he says frankly. “So I never think about if I have a job tomorrow. I think about what’s best and how to get there. If I get there and I upset somebody and I make an enemy and it hurts me personally, well, I’m ready for it.

“But I see other CEOs and other people who basically look at themselves and all they try to do is ensure job security. Well, I don’t think they are doing themselves or their organisations a favour because eventually they’ll fail. So I’m a kamikaze, I go in there expecting to get blown up, basically.”

Peter McGauran, a one-time agriculture minister in the Howard government, says those traits are even apparent to friends of V’landys, of which he is one. “People who suffer self-doubt or have insecurities should not hang out with Peter V’landys,” McGauran says with a laugh. “But there is a soft side to him, he is loyal to a fault and he is capable of the most incredible acts of generosity that people don’t know about. But he is volatile and is a ferocious fighter, and even as friends we have our fights where he would tear strips off you and there would be raised voices and not-so-choice language. And he is like that with anyone.”

One particular source of flashpoints during V’landys’ career has been with the NSW government. Last year he was embroiled in a drama over his request to project promotional material for The Everest onto the Opera House — a request at first denied by CEO Louise Herron, who was ­subjected to an on-air grilling by broadcaster Alan Jones (V’landys was on air for some of the ­interview). It sparked a protest but eventually a compromise was reached, though the tone of the interview damaged Jones’ reputation. V’landys has privately admitted it was a mistake to go back on air with Jones immediately after the Herron ­grilling, while also pointing out the Opera House boss is a tough operator, too.

When asked if he is a bully, V’landys says: “Bullying is when you’re afraid. I never make anyone afraid because I’ve suffered [bullying] myself when I was a kid. I go hard as a business person and commercially. I take pride that I go hard on an issue [but] I don’t go hard on a person or personality.”

He likes to think this ethos applied to his ­battles with former NSW premier Mike Baird. V’landys had for years campaigned for tax parity with Victoria, saying his state government took more tax on totaliser and fixed-odds betting than in the southern state. It was an argument that Baird, like other leaders and bureaucrats before him, rejected. But V’landys persisted and things got ugly when he ventured to the premier’s office for a meeting in 2017. “He alleged I called him the ‘boy premier’ but I never did. He sent all his staff out of the office. I said, ‘I resent that, I’ve never called you the boy premier ever and if I ever called you the boy premier I’d say it to your face, I wouldn’t say it behind your back.’ So I said to him, ‘OK, in racing we give due process and natural ­justice, you’ve accused me of calling you the boy premier. You bring the person in who told you that and I’d like to cross-examine him.’ That stumped him.” Baird, who is now an executive at National Australia Bank, declined to comment.

V’landys says another meeting with Baird got so heated that Baird “lost his cool” and threatened to kick him out of his office. While they had their ­differences, the premier eventually agreed to the tax changes. “Mike honoured his word. And I like Mike Baird. Basically it wasn’t a personality thing, we argued the issue. That’s where I came back to the kamikaze thing. I could have destroyed my whole career. Here I am having a battle with the premier and nearly getting kicked out of his office. Normally when you’re in those positions everyone is sucking up to you. I’m not, I’m in there going hard.”

That approach has almost caused V’landys to come unstuck. In 2005, Racing NSW attempted to prevent the then Australian Jockey Club and ­Sydney Turf Club signing TV broadcast deals with a new pay-TV service called ThoroughVisioN (TVN). In her judgment allowing the deals, Supreme Court Justice Patricia Bergin referred to Racing NSW’s “strong-arm tactics”. A proposal by the organisation to put the two bodies (which have since merged) into administration if they failed to follow their directives had seen its “lack of professionalism [fall] to an all-time low”.

V’landys would be embroiled in the bitter break-up of TVN, by then holding aggregated rights to racing in both Victoria and NSW, in late 2014. Some racing figures blamed V’landys and said he was favouring TVN’s rival Sky Racing, owned by bookmaking giant Tabcorp — a sponsor of Racing NSW. Boardroom discussions were, to put it mildly, robust, and a TVN statement at the time of the divorce said the split was “amicable” but a result of a difference of opinion. Mike Symons, at the time a TVN director and ­Melbourne Racing Club chairman, says V’landys “can get under people’s skin but he comes to a board meeting more prepared than anyone. He will respect you if you stand up to him, though you’d better be completely across your argument and all the details, or he will exploit that.”

Alan Jones, a racing enthusiast who has known V’landys for about three decades, says: “Peter… doesn’t stand nonsense. He understands his brief, can argue his case [and] can mobilise the bullshit repellent. And of course that leads to one enduring weakness, that is, you become impatient in the face of people who can’t see reason, common sense or truth.”

V’landys has been a fighter for much of his life.His first memory is of splitting his head open after falling off a donkey. His family migrated to ­Australia when he was three aboard the Patris, the ocean liner that brought many Greek migrants here. The family settled in Wollongong, where father Nick found work at the steelworks and mother Katerina a job in a cafe. Nick V’landys would be what his son called a “doubler”, doing double-shifts from 6am to midnight, while ­Katerina would work 12 hours a day in the cafe.

His parents had little interest in racing but young Peter would watch the sport on TV with an elderly gentleman who lived across the road from his childhood friend Wayne Pearce. “I remember seeing this big bald-faced horse called Paleface Adios and I became obsessed. I’d travel up to ­Sydney as a nine or 10-year-old and stand on the fence at [trotting raceway] Harold Park to see it race. That is how I first got into racing.”

V’landys attended Keira Boys High School, where one teacher insisted on spelling his surname as it is known now rather than the “Vlandys” moniker of his birth, simply to make it easier to pronounce. Another recommended he study accounting. V’landys then headed to the ­University of Wollongong, later graduating with a commerce degree and accounting major.

By then he had managed a pub — seeing off a workers’ strike in protest at his appointment, given his young age and lack of experience — and was also playing rugby league for Wests Illawarra, showing potential as a backrower or lock and playing for the junior Illawarra representative side. V’landys says he could have “made it” in league — meaning he could have joined one of the Sydney clubs in the then NSW Rugby League competition — but earning money took precedence. “I had two migrant parents and imagine telling them I was going to go play sport and they had to support me. I just couldn’t do it to them.”

While working as an accountant, he saw the job of general manager of Harold Park Paceway advertised and decided to apply. To his surprise he was invited back for a second interview. “But I was half an hour late and thought I was no chance so I thought, ‘Bugger this, I’m going to go in there and tell them what they are doing wrong’.” It worked, and so, in 1988, 26-year-old V’landys was the youngest general manager in Harold Park’s 100-year history. He says the ageing facility in inner-city Glebe was on its last legs and in need of a turnaround. Hard decisions were needed. In a sign of things to come, he was successful in ­gaining about $25 million in state government funding to upgrade the grandstand and facilities.

There were also lighter moments. One day a phone call came through reception from a Rachel Ward wanting to speak to the boss about hiring the venue for a charity event on the night of the biggest race meet of the year, the Miracle Mile. “I took the call and said, ‘If you’re Rachel Ward then I’m Mel Gibson’, ” V’landys recounts. “So I hung up thinking it was a prank call, but she called back, so I said, ‘Well, if you’re really Rachel Ward, then be here at reception at 2pm and we’ll discuss it’. Sure enough, at 2pm the receptionist called and said, ‘Rachel Ward is here’. I said, ‘Sure’ and left her there. But reception called me back a while later and said, ‘She’s still here and a bloke called Bryan Brown is with her, and he isn’t too happy’.”

Ward and Brown, the famous acting couple, lived nearby and eventually held the successful Bush Bash fundraisers at Harold Park for many years and have become friends of V’landys.

The entrepreneurial V’landys oversaw Harold Park buying several assets to diversify its revenue, including a nearby row of terrace houses to rent out. One afternoon an angry tenant stormed into the office screaming at the receptionist and wanting to speak to the CEO. “I could hear the commotion and came out and this woman absolutely tore strips off me, calling me a slumlord because the house didn’t have bars on its windows and she’d been robbed. Well that was Philippa, my wife now.” The couple have three children aged 10 and under — Katerina, Nicholas and Maddie.

By 2004, V’landys was running a profitable organisation but, ever ambitious, started to look further afield. He was appointed CEO of the New Zealand TAB and was poised to move across the Tasman when he was called in to meet the board of the NSW Thoroughbred Racing Industry. Their CEO had just resigned. V’landys was given an adjacent room to wait in after “giving them all quarters about what they were doing wrong and how to improve themselves”, only to get locked in there until he accepted the role. Racing NSW, as the entity would later become known, was another turnaround story, with the code operating in ageing facilities and the days of the public flocking to its tracks seemingly in the past.

There years into the job, a major issue would flare when equine influenza struck, resulting in the horse racing industry shutting down seemingly overnight. Day after day, V’landys would front the media arguing for a rescue package. Then he came up with the idea of subsidising horses by paying for each animal to be kept in work by trainers, jockeys and strappers in an effort to keep the industry afloat until the disease was eradicated. McGauran, though, was having trouble convincing Treasury officials, who thought the idea of subsidising horses “was a ­foreign concept”.

McGauran was summoned to a meeting with prime minister Howard and took V’landys with him. “We walked in and the first thing the prime minister says is, ‘You’re on the TV more often than me’ to Peter,” McGauran remembers. “I had exhausted all avenues but the PM was drawn to Peter’s energy, grasp of the details and never coming across as anyone other than a person of the highest integrity. Howard judged him on his character and Peter was successful in convincing him of the merits of the package.”

An even bigger win was in the battle with the ­corporate or online bookmakers, many of them owned globally, who took on V’landys over wagering product fees. Sportsbet and Betfair argued that the fee paid for publishing the race field, calculated on 1.5 per cent of betting turn­over, was unfair and discriminatory and protected the tote operator Tabcorp. V’landys says he believes the bookmakers even went to the length of instructing employees to anonymously post negative views of him online, though he did also send betting executives defamation letters.

He was ultimately vindicated with a win in the High Court in 2012. “That established his level of resolve and it was well handled,” says former ­Racing NSW chairman John Messara, a noted influence on V’landys. “At no time did he lose faith in the argument and won out. I think that was the making of him. He led that fight.”

Racing NSW then released the more than $100 million in fees it had collected pending the outcome of the case and the money flowed to the industry, as has about $500 million since. Later he was even able to win $40 million compensation from the Catholic Church for holding a world youth festival at Royal Randwick that shut down the track for weeks. The tax parity win has been worth about $70 million annually and now he’s launched The Everest, which has attracted big crowds and a younger audience to the sport.

V’landys says he still has plenty left to achieve in racing but is relishing the challenge of rugby league. If he has to get up earlier in the morning to read more board material, he will. Like the nuggety forward he once was on the playing field, he says he is capable of getting through a mountain of hard work to deal with both jobs. And he’s prepared to take the hits. “If you’re doing a good job for your organisation, you’ve lost blood along the way,” he says. “You’ve got to bleed for them, and I’ve bled many times. I’m the number one customer at the blood bank.”

EDITOR, THE LIST
John Stensholt joined The Australian in July 2018. He writes about Australia’s most successful and wealthy entrepreneurs, and the business of sport. Previously he worked at The Australian Financial Review and ... 
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-05, 07:19 PM
Good article re Vlandys. It will be interesting how he handles NRL and it’s issues.

Racing does not get the same coverage of NRL so decisions like disqualified jockeys or trainers coming back in the industry, form reversals or stewards quitting at the same time does not get much scrutiny from the friendly racing media.

The Rugby League media is a different kettle of fish if you look at how the last few chairmen fared under the negative press.

Vlandys will have a few contentious issues to start off with too. The main one is where the NRL GF will be held when ANZ is being rebuilt. The state government has already refused to give compensation considering how much they are spending on the rebuilds which benefits NRL primarily. If it goes to Brisbane, there will be blowback from the general public. God help Vlandys if it goes to Brisbane and two Sydney sides make it.

Expansion is another issue along with falling digital and tv audiences.

Vlandys will hope there are no off field issues especially as there will be cries of hypocrisy if players are not allowed back into the game compared to racing’s love of comebacks from suspensions and disqualifications.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-08, 10:04 PM
SMH Article below.

They should act': V'landys calls for Melbourne Cup date to be moved

By Adam Pengilly
October 8, 2019 — 9.00pm


V'landys' pitch comes less than a fortnight before the running of Sydney's $14 million The Everest, the world's richest race on turf.
In an interview with Channel Seven on Tuesday, a combative V'landys argued Australia's most famous race should be pushed back to later in November in remarks which are sure to anger Victoria Racing Club officials.

"The one that has to move is the VRC with the Melbourne Cup," V'landys said. "The Melbourne Cup will be successful wherever you put it. If you are really interested in the national racing scene, don't give us diatribe. Look at it and if there is a better pattern, they should act instead of being critical all the time thinking they have a monopoly and attacking the other states. If you are really interested in the national racing scene, don't give us diatribe, "They [VRC] should look at it as a national industry. They shouldn't look at it as a Victorian racing industry. I don't think the way it is at the moment is of benefit to the Victorian racing industry let alone the national industry.
"If you are going to attack a state about national racing, I think you should look at your own scene first."

V'landys has aggressively added rich events to Sydney's racing scene - including The Everest and the $7.5 million Golden Eagle to be run on Victoria Derby day for the first time next month - to reinvigorate the NSW industry. It's an approach that has been at odds with southern officials, in particular VRC chairman Amanda Elliott who in June called V'landys a "silly little man". She later apologised for the comment.

V'landys' idea has won support from the Melbourne Racing Club, who argue their Caulfield carnival - which begins with the Caulfield Guineas this week and also features the $5 million Caulfield Cup, run on the same day as The Everest - is too close to the AFL grand final. "The first Tuesday in November is sacrosanct, according to some," MRC chief executive Josh Blanksby said. "If you take Peter's lead, should we be reviewing that? Times change. The weather is much better in that space [later in November] and could the pattern work a lot better? "From our perspective, selfishly speaking, we come right on the back of the AFL grand final and it's difficult to try and get people's mind to turn to racing season.
"They have just come off some pretty big finals and you ask them to come again." The MRC has brokered a deal with the Australian Turf Club to boast one of the 12 slots for this year's The Everest.

V'landys could not be reached for comment on Tuesday.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Oct-09, 11:02 AM
There is a fair bit of "Trump" in V'landys  and he seems to have plenty of Indians that allow him to get the headlines and run unchallenged.

The first article is much of a repeat of stuff that has been written before and when Alan Jones is quoted and the author is a Murdoch hack ......well enough said really.

The disappointment for me is to see the Fairfax press jumping aboard the V'landys express but both Pengilly and Roots are employed by RNSW......enough said there as well.

The first Tuesday in November is a locked in part of history in this country and will never be changed and running it deeper into the summer months would hardly be good for the horses if indeed horse welfare is the first consideration, as we are constantly reminded.

V'landys will quickly find out in league that there won't be as many bootlickers.




Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-09, 05:56 PM
Only managed to get half way through that disgusting article by Stensholt.

He covers the ASX as well so should have noted how bad Tabcorp racing is going. Thanks in no small part to V'landys' stunts.

The Everest is a scam with fake prize money used to benefit stud fees.

And in that 4 Corners episode he effectively boasted about killing off all the small grass roots old trainers.

Just as he initially shafted all punters - bar the a handful at the top who enjoy obscene Kickbacks.


Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-10, 07:10 AM
Vlandys has shown he will not back down regardless of popular sentiment. However unlike Racing where there is no real scrutiny by the media, NRL is a different beast.

I will be quite intrigued to see how blunt he is with the state government, media and more importantly the NRL clubs. The NRL clubs are masters of self interest and they come from different geographical areas. The parochial fans will be an issue for him if he goes against their own.

But Vlandys will get more coverage of NRL with his frankness. However we have to see if positive or negative. The Everest has received a mixture thanks to him.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-10, 12:43 PM
I agree that the MC could be moved back in date
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-10, 04:30 PM
Disagree WOD.

We should move Everest Carnival, Eagles just after the carnival and add a decent staying race in the mix over 2400m. This can be aimed at the MC placegetters or Cox Plate/ Mackinnon Stakes runners.

None of the new  Sydney races are aimed at 2000m races and up.

I am a Sydneysider who gets bored in the mid Nov and December month until the cricket starts. Also with the country legs of our racing carnival end, it will pack out the course of mixed with an early Christmas party or two.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Oct-10, 05:55 PM
I wonder how long P V'landys plans to hang around racing.

Asking for slot holders to commit to another 12 months last year was a bit of a giveaway.

If he chose to move away from racing before the next big 3 year sell he could at least say The Everest was in great shape under his command.

It will be a very hard sell in 6 years time when a lot of people see that their money had gone the way of most racetrack ventures.......disappeared.

What will V'landys do with the NRL that will mean success?

He seems to recognise the welfare threat to racing but watching Insight the other night on SBS he might have a bigger welfare issue on his hands.....player welfare.

Sad to see some of the older league boys with serious brain issues.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2019-Oct-10, 07:18 PM
Does anyone think The Everest  & The Eagles will be around in 138 years like the Melbourne Cup ?  Vlandys, this former CEO of NSW Harness Racing, is telling Racing Victoria and the VRC that they should put the Melbourne Cup , from its traditional race date of THE FIRST TUESDAY IN NOVEMBER, to later in November to the make way for The Everest & The Eagle .

Who is he kidding? Someday into the future no doubt he will probably want to have the NRL Grand Final on the same day as the AFL Grand Final because it might rate better in NSW & Q/Land than it does in the rest of Australia.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-10, 07:33 PM
Bubba, that is not a bad idea at all.

AFL on the Saturday afternoon and NRL GF on the night. We then have the big Melbourne and Sydney Epsom meetings on the Sunday. That is a great weekend of sport.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Oct-10, 07:40 PM

Unlikely that these '4yro only' races will linger long

...... the Sliver Egale is already on a deep dive into irrelevance -- and the Gloden Egale has the next dive.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2019-Oct-12, 08:16 AM
'A VISITING American with a penchant for riveting repartee once observed on his one and only sojourn to the Melbourne Cup that its mother city was the “mitred metropolitan of the horseracing cult”.

Mark Twain’s 1897 observations may well be lost on NSW Racing rottweiler Peter V’landys, a man who seems sadly incapable of appreciating that prestige and class is not acquired in a Weeties packet, or by throwing as much cash as is required.

He boasts the richest sprint race in the world, the 70-second stampede known as The Everest. It’s worth $6 million more than our Cup but a water-sport equivalent would be a bunch of bogans on jet skis taking on the Sydney-to-Hobart maxis.

The English Derby aside, no flat race in the world can compare with the history of the Melbourne Cup.

How V’landys must cringe when he constantly hears it referred to as “the race that stops a nation”, when tools are downed and once-a-year punters cheer home their selections from the office sweep."

That was an excerpt from an article in this morning's press written by sports journalist Jon Anderson...what more can one say ?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Oct-12, 07:00 PM

The nation still stops on Cup day

Historically, we stopped because the race had a leveling Australian character --  egalitarian handicaps evened the field.

Now, we still stop, many for a whole day, but the day-off is more about excusing a social 'skinful' -- and, as at Flemington on the day, no one else gives a flying about 'the race' or any other race run on the day.

...............the inclination to have 'random flutters', on lucky numbers, nostalgic-names and 'sweeps', mainly serves the interests of bookmakers and the racing industry.



Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-13, 09:19 PM
Last year Vlandys attracted controversy with the Opera House projection of the Everest barriers. Now it is the turn of the Harbour Bridge. I doubt if it will have the same controversy as last year due to the accessibility of any protesters.

The more interesting aspect would be a betting market where next year’s projections will be. It is hard after the opera house and the bridge to find something almost as equal.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-15, 09:22 PM
How on earth is this onanist still outside of a padded cell?

My bread choices today are no different to 10 years back.

My beer preferences remain unchanged through 50 years of research.

And The Everest along with the Randwick shithole are sick jokes that cokeheads have not yet managed to decipher.

The prizemoney is fake. The main beneficiaries are fat cat breeders boosting stud fees after the winner's sire prizemoney is artificially inflated.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/victorians-are-proudly-parochial-and-i-say-that-as-a-compliment-20191014-p530f5.html
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Oct-16, 07:09 PM


Be very wary of antagonizing 'our pete'


.................. pete is easily offended and has access to a bottomless pit of funds to pursue defamation actions for any remarks he
does not like.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-16, 07:14 PM
Good to hear your crap is under scrutiny   :biggrin:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2019-Oct-17, 07:31 PM
If anyone can access ABC I view have a look at 7.30 Report Thursday Night  17th October Ole Pete lots for words.


https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-17/racehorses-sent-slaughterhouses-contravention-racing-rules/11611688?pfmredir=sm
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-17, 08:33 PM

Be very wary of antagonizing 'our pete'


.................. pete is easily offended and has access to a bottomless pit of funds to pursue defamation actions for any remarks he
does not like.

Do you have any ongoing actions against Racing Victoria?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Oct-17, 10:53 PM


I have asked the Victorian department of justice, and the ACCC, to conduct an inquiry into the policies of RVL administrators.

There are posts on this forum that elaborate.

In essence, paying substantial prize-money, to inflate fields with horses hoping to run 10th,  corrupts the fairness of affected races.

The main beneficiaries are corporate bookmakers betting fixed odds (to losers-only with not-closed accounts) and the syndicates that routinely knock off the lotto-dividend consequences for the most popular bet in Australia -- the Melbourne Quadrella.

I consider what is happening to be a disgrace.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-18, 04:44 PM
What about legal actions against you?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Oct-18, 08:22 PM

 ...............a wily  ode..... ruff, ruff , ruff oh gosh oh gee... tucker-box is the food for me
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-19, 07:30 AM

I have asked the Victorian department of justice, and the ACCC, to conduct an inquiry into the policies of RVL administrators.

There are posts on this forum that elaborate.

In essence, paying substantial prize-money, to inflate fields with horses hoping to run 10th,  corrupts the fairness of affected races.

The main beneficiaries are corporate bookmakers betting fixed odds (to losers-only with not-closed accounts) and the syndicates that routinely knock off the lotto-dividend consequences for the most popular bet in Australia -- the Melbourne Quadrella.

I consider what is happening to be a disgrace.

Is this an ongoing issue with them or they ignoring the issue and / or you?

I am not sure how they work to be honest as Crown has a few issues publicly brought up my the media too in that neck of the woods.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-19, 06:00 PM

The English Derby aside, no flat race in the world can compare with the history of the Melbourne Cup.


For Australian racing history buffs, the Melbourne Cup had a history.

The operative word being had.

The legends that make up the history of the Melbourne Cup were in the main Australian with a few New Zealanders tossed in.

Now it is an anonymous race where 20 of the 24 runners are B-Grade European stayers who are not good enough to race in the Arc.

There is a line ruled under the Melbourne Cup history this millennium.

Times change. Attitudes change.

This is what Tony McEvoy had to say:

Everest is now ‘Australia’s big race

Tony McEvoy remembers the Melbourne Cup being unmatched for romance and Australiana. School days coming to a giddy halt when the call was played over the loudspeaker.

What about now? McEvoy ­adjusts his flat cap on Monday at Royal Randwick, puts down his binoculars and laments the internationalisation of the first Tuesday in November and claims The Everest has become the gallop that most represents, and increasingly fascinates, the nation.

“The Melbourne Cup has lost its Australian-ness,” says the trainer of Sunlight in Saturday’s $14m sprint at Sydney’s Royal Randwick. “This is our big race now. This is Australia’s race. The internationals are going to come for this, too, but over the years we’ve been too good for them at this distance (1200m). We can’t compete with them at the staying distance (3200m) of a Melbourne Cup. You look at all the results of all the staying races in the country and the winners are all imports, sadly.”

McEvoy adds: “It’s what we’ve created. We did this ourselves. We went to the yearling sales and started to buy speed. The breeders thought they had to breed to the market. We’ve created this situation ourselves.”

Only three of last year’s 24 Melbourne Cup runners — Ace High, Youngstar and Runaway — were locally bred. Eleven of the 12 starters in The Everest — all except ­Ireland’s Ten Sovereigns — have competed regularly in Australia, increasing the connection with punters and the public.

“I don’t spend any time looking at the Melbourne Cup because you don’t know any of the horses,” McEvoy says. “You don’t get the great old storylines you used to get. I do find it a little sad. I remember being out in the schoolyard and listening to it on the amplifier. These days I’ve heard of schools not even watching or listening to the race. I really do think that’s sad. The Prince of Penzance story was a great one, but that’s a rarity.

“The battlers coming from the bush with a runner — that’s all gone. At least in The Everest, look at Redzel — winner of the first two, owned by 300 people or whatever it is. How good is that? How Australian is that? Knockabout people owning a horse that has won two Everests. That’s beautiful. That’s what you used to get at a Melbourne Cup, but not anymore.”

The Melbourne-based trainer was a sceptic when The Everest was established in 2017.

“From down south, when it was first introduced, we thought, ‘Gee, is that going to work?’ It seemed very American,” he says. “I must say, I was a little bit against it. How wrong I was. It’s become the Australian race … our other big race, we seem to have lost that to the overseas horses, whereas this race is for us. I think it’s a great concept and I applaud (Racing NSW chief executive) Peter V’landys and his team for pulling it all together. I’m glad to be in, and not looking in.”

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/horse-racing/trainer-tony-mcevoys-new-dawn-everest-is-now-australias-big-race/

The Everest is fast supplanting the Melbourne Cup as the race for the Aussie battler.

The Cup was ruined by people like Lloyd Williams just going overseas and buying the winner, and now they all come out here.

Yes. It will still be a big national social occasion.

But history?

It has little to do with Australians any more - and that is the fault of the VRC and that organization who seems to stuff everything up - Racing Victoria.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-19, 06:04 PM
...oh and the Caulfield Cup might be going the same way.

Hands up here who are inspired by the win of Murder Glass in the Cup today?

Yes, Yes, Yes on the other hand.........
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-19, 07:09 PM
PP, the build up of the races are gone and that is what is hurting the CC and MC. Cox Plate soon will be the same.

The Everest with all it’s glamour and build up out rivals anything for the past few years. I would be quite interested to see how much Racing NSW spends on the Everest compared to all the other meetings.

Racing Victoria cannot do that effectively now. In the old days, there would be updates on the runners etc. Nowdays most people wait for the final field to have a wager as most of the o/s runners are anonymous and rarely have a run in Australia.

The question Racing Victoria needs to find out what they are trying to achieve.

Yes Yes Yes win now will be a disaster for most middle distance / stayers for the future as the breeders now have the Slipper for 2yos and Everest for the 3yos. Thus we will see more and more emphasis on sprinters here.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-19, 08:15 PM

Yes Yes Yes win now will be a disaster for most middle distance / stayers for the future as the breeders now have the Slipper for 2yos and Everest for the 3yos. Thus we will see more and more emphasis on sprinters here.

How do you know Yes Yes Yes will be a "disaster" for middle distance/stayers?

His damsire is Fantastic Light, winner of Stakes races of between 10 and 12 furlongs.

His maternal granddam is by Salieri - noted sire of stayers.

He gets his speed from Dad's side no doubt but who would have thought Pierro would sire stayers?

But apart from the horse, the win by jockey (an emotional) Glen Boss and trainer Chris Waller is something that is far less likely to happen with the Cups from now on.

That is what the Melbourne Cup needs.

Local legends and battlers winning it.

Not some blow in from the land of the sandman - no offence intended.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Oct-19, 08:31 PM
PP, the build up of the races are gone and that is what is hurting the CC and MC. Cox Plate soon will be the same.

The Everest with all it’s glamour and build up out rivals anything for the past few years.

There was basically zero coverage of the Caulfield Cup in the lead up this week , it was all Everest in Sydney. In years gone by it would have all been about the C Cup yet this year it was nearly an after thought.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-19, 09:27 PM
How do you know Yes Yes Yes will be a "disaster" for middle distance/stayers?

His damsire is Fantastic Light, winner of Stakes races of between 10 and 12 furlongs.

His maternal granddam is by Salieri - noted sire of stayers.

He gets his speed from Dad's side no doubt but who would have thought Pierro would sire stayers?

But apart from the horse, the win by jockey (an emotional) Glen Boss and trainer Chris Waller is something that is far less likely to happen with the Cups from now on.

That is what the Melbourne Cup needs.

Local legends and battlers winning it.

Not some blow in from the land of the sandman - no offence intended.

PP, what I meant was there will be renewed focus on local breeders on speed / milers rather than stayers.

All the major middle distance / staying races need a huge cash influx otherwise the sprinters will again be a focus.

Don’t get me wrong I do like the Everest but would love the older sprinters to win especially the geldings. Love to see them race on rather than a horse that races for around 12-18 months max.

Vlandys is a showman and a shameless promoter of the race. That is what Racing Victoria needs to do. Revamp and promote the hell out of the carnival. Even the Cox Plate without Winx seems just a race without any hype.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-20, 07:32 AM

Vlandys is a showman and a shameless promoter of the race. That is what Racing Victoria needs to do. Revamp and promote the hell out of the carnival. Even the Cox Plate without Winx seems just a race without any hype.

I don't agree with the "showman" comment.

He actually is a "hands on" operator and this is why he is so successful. A lot of what he does is to act as an advocate for NSW Racing participants and lobby to get extra funding, then return this to the industry via things like increased prizemoney, paying out down to 10th place, etc.

Yes. He promotes the race. The adjective "shameless" where you have placed it appears to denigrate this role - is there a problem with either the race or the promotion of it?

Your comment re lack of promotion by Racing Victoria. In regard to the Caulfield Cup I would agree with this. Most of the "promotion" coming from south of the border has been pot shots at V'Landys. Perhaps someone should point this out to Racing Victoria and tell them the virtues of positive thought.

Leaving aside the personal animosity people have with Peter V'Landys, Racing Victoria appears to be an organization that does not carry out the same functions as Racing NSW - just my opinion.

RV seems to be there for Channel 7, racing.com and Corporate Bookmakers.

RNSW seems to be there for the industry participants, and the people of NSW.

As I said, just my opinion others might not share.

In regards to the upcoming Melbourne Cup, I am already seeing ads for Melbourne Cup lunches. I do not agree with your statement in regard to that race.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-20, 07:54 AM




 who would have thought Pierro would sire stayers?.


I get your point PP but it’s actually the opposite

Pierro is bred to stay and winning the slipper was the shock.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-20, 08:40 AM
PP, the term “showman” is not derogatory and it is to emphasise the job he is doing. As  are the words “shamelessly promoting” as he has faced criticism and to his credit has never backed down on his promotion of the race.

It just seems that people have to constantly clarify anything said about Vlandys and co if the words used to describe them are not to someone’s particular liking. Vlandys can live with criticism as he has shown again and again. He has always stood tall (all 175 cm) and has never wavered.

PP, if you read the Good Weekend article in Fairfax, he acknowledges that he will get criticised for changing status quo but he is no apologist. He has a very thick skin.

If all conservatives and lefties had this attitude, we would not have so much fake indignation from both sides.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-20, 10:18 AM
That is what the Melbourne Cup needs.

Local legends and battlers winning it.

Not some blow in from the land of the sandman - no offence intended.
Battlers? As if V'landys would ever upset his fat cat cronies by allowing that!

Briefly watched the rugger last night - until my bets were decided.

Neither side looked all that local.

Perhaps we should restrict the Australian Tennis Open to locals like Daria?

Logistics make it tough but the Melbourne Cup seems to be about getting a credible field.

That makes it an international event with significant economic synergies.

(https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/inspirewp/live/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2018/11/GettyImages-1064773098.englandanthem-630x427.jpg)
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2019-Oct-20, 10:54 AM
The Everest IMO will never takeover the Melbourne Cup as Australia's number one race because....

A. It might be the richest turf race in the world but is just another WFA 1200 metres race, with the majority of the stakemoney provided by wealthy slot holders

B. The Melbourne Cup has been run since 1861, the Everest 3 times, let's see where it sits in 10, 20 or 50 years, then one can determine whether it's Australia's number one race. What's more Peter VLandys will not be around then to pump up the Everest. :whistle:

C. Over the past week I have not heard of any office in Dubbo, Swan Hill, Kalgoorlie or Cairns getting together and running an office sweep on the Everest, yet in each of those towns, like elsewhere in Australia, office sweeps will be run on the first Tuesday in November.

D. To quote Tony McEvoy as a voice of reason is faniciful. To my knowledge he has only trained one two mile winner. An Adelaide Cup years ago, and not surprisingly, he had a runner in the Everest.

E. George Hanlon, Etienne De Mestre and Bart Cummings would turn in their graves to hear another trainer put down the Melbourne Cup with the patience and skill they put in to win the Cup.

F. I have read that the Cup has lost its appeal because it has been internationalized with overseas runners. The average  once-a-year punter or office sweep participant cares less whether their horse if from Australia, Dubai, NZ, Ireland or Timbuktu , they embrace Cup Day for what it is, close enough to the only day in Australia where  the country unites. Have a look of what Australia Day has become.. Invasion Day.

F. Unlike regular punters, the vast majority of once -a -year punters next week could not tell you five horses who ran in yesterday's Everest. The same might be said of those once-a-year  punters about the Cup but I am sure if they won on the Cup with a bet or in a sweep they will remember that win for years.

G.  For the life of me, does anyone seriously believe The Everest, other than perhaps to the breeding industry,will ever have the community involvement as does the Cup does on the  first Tuesday in November ? BTW the breeding industry has enough to clean up on its own plate with the revelations on that 7.30 Report last week.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-20, 11:05 AM
Battlers? As if V'landys would ever upset his fat cat cronies by allowing that!

Briefly watched the rugger last night - until my bets were decided.

Neither side looked all that local.

Perhaps we should restrict the Australian Tennis Open to locals like Daria?

Logistics make it tough but the Melbourne Cup seems to be about getting a credible field.

That makes it an international event with significant economic synergies.


Comparing the Melbourne Cup to the Australian Tennis Open or Rugby Union is an inappropriate analogy.

The point is not accepted.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-20, 11:10 AM
Bubba, Some very good points.

I do have a bone to pick with you. The Everest should be moved to a weekday and Vlandys fight for a public holiday.  I will then call him for him to be canonised.

We in NSW have two less public holidays than our Southern Counterparts who have GF eve and Melbourne Cup day.

But in all seriousness, there is nothing better than winning a office cup sweep and living on the accolades for a year for non gamblers. The cynics in us go, sweeps are ridiculous concepts and people are idiots. However it brings people together. No other race can do that.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-20, 11:18 AM
The Everest IMO will never takeover the Melbourne Cup as Australia's number one race because....

A. It might be the richest turf race in the world but is just another WFA 1200 metres race, with the majority of the stakemoney provided by wealthy slot holders

B. The Melbourne Cup has been run since 1861, the Everest 3 times, let's see where it sits in 10, 20 or 50 years, then one can determine whether it's Australia's number one race. What's more Peter VLandys will not be around then to pump up the Everest. :whistle:

C. Over the past week I have heard of no office in Dubbo, Swan Hill, Kalgoorlie or Cairns getting together and running an office sweep on the Everest, yet in each of those towns, like elsewhere in Australia, an office sweep will be run on the first Tuesday in November.

D. To quote Tony McEvoy as a voice of reason is faniciful. To my knowledge he has only trained one two mile winner. An Adelaide Cup years ago, and not surprisingly, he had a runner in the Everest.

E. George Hanlon, Etienne De Mestre and Bart Cummings would turn in their graves to hear another trainer put down the Melbourne Cup with the patience and skill they put in to win the Cup.

F. I have read that the Cup has lost its appeal because it has been internationalized with overseas runners. The average  once-a-year punter or office sweep participant cares less whether their horse if from Australia, Dubai, NZ, Ireland or Timbuktu , they embrace Cup Day for what it is, close enough to the only day in Australia where  the country unites. Have a look of what Australia Day has become.. Invasion Day.

F. Unlike regular punters, the vast majority of once -a -year punters next week could not tell you five horses who ran in yesterday's Everest. The same might be said of those once-a-year  punters about the Cup but I am sure if they won on the Cup with a bet or in a sweep they will remember that win for years.

G.  For the life of me, does anyone seriously believe The Everest, other than perhaps to the breeding industry,will ever have the community involvement as does the Cup does on the  first Tuesday in November ? BTW the breeding industry has enough to clean up on its own plate with the revelations on that 7.30 Report last week.

Some of your points seem to overlap Bubba.

On point B - I will not be around in 50 years time to see where the Everest sits in relation to the Melbourne Cup. In 1861, the Melbourne Cup was not the big race it is now but it grew. Do you think change is a phenomena exclusive to happenings a century or two ago?

On point C - you live in Melbourne. I can tell you in Sydney it has been all about The Everest. Front page nearly every day and everyone know it was on. Much talked about and always described as "the world's richest race". That gets Joe Public in.

On point E - have you considered the parallel universe where Bart Cummings was just starting out in 2019?

There is no way with the current structure that he would be able to train 12 winners.

That is my point about "legends being lost". There will never be any local heroes related to the Melbourne Cup any more because the race has been internationalized.

On point F (the first one - you have two point F's) - no one is arguing with this. Joe Public couldn't care less if it is a handicap for B-Grade Euros or a Benchmark 84 for fillies and mares. But this forum carries a more informed view and our comments (and like those of Tony McEvoy) regarding the loss of something with the internationalization are valid.

On point F ii I can remember the first 3 winners of the Everest. Being honest, can you remember the names of the last 3 Melbourne Cup winners? I can't, but I used to be able to.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-20, 11:23 AM
Bubba, Some very good points.

I do have a bone to pick with you. The Everest should be moved to a weekday and Vlandys fight for a public holiday.  I will then call him for him to be canonised.

We in NSW have two less public holidays than our Southern Counterparts who have GF eve and Melbourne Cup day.

But in all seriousness, there is nothing better than winning a office cup sweep and living on the accolades for a year for non gamblers. The cynics in us go, sweeps are ridiculous concepts and people are idiots. However it brings people together. No other race can do that.

My son is not a regular punter but likes to go to Randwick on big race days with his mates and WAGs. I got him two tickets into the members yesterday and he took his GF and some of the pictures of the crowd they took are amazing.

His opinion as a 24 yo (and this surprised me) is that he would like to see it run at night.

When I suggested they run it under lights at Canterbury he was horrified.

He thought at night and at Randwick. And I think his mates all think the same. To them it is entertainment and they prefer their entertainment at night.

I don't think they would like the midweek idea.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-20, 11:42 AM
PP, night sport events are becoming more and more popular.

20 years most of us would have never considered night AFL and NRL games as normal with a multitude of simultaneous games on Saturday and Sunday. But Pay Tv around the world and Australia have shown sports administrators that having back to back games can increase audiences and sponsorship.

We had a work Christmas Party at Canterbury night races last year and if they had facilities to kick on afterwards most of the younger brigade would have done so. Majority of the young racegoers do not bet regularly other than sports. However they do spend more on food and drinks than some of the heavy gamblers. 
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-20, 12:01 PM
PP, night sport events are becoming more and more popular.

20 years most of us would have never considered night AFL and NRL games as normal with a multitude of simultaneous games on Saturday and Sunday. But Pay Tv around the world and Australia have shown sports administrators that having back to back games can increase audiences and sponsorship.

We had a work Christmas Party at Canterbury night races last year and if they had facilities to kick on afterwards most of the younger brigade would have done so. Majority of the young racegoers do not bet regularly other than sports. However they do spend more on food and drinks than some of the heavy gamblers.

Saturday Night Everest would also appease the MRC?

You could have a daytime and nighttime program at Randwick. Caulfield Cup on during the day and Everest at night.  Works for me.

At Caulfield they might be able to keep some of the younger crowd around with a concert or something after the last and stay open for the Everest meet?

Win/Win.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-20, 12:23 PM
PP, not a bad idea but I think turnover will be down considerably if the Everest was at night. I usually lose interest after the last in Sydney or Melbourne and that would be the same for most punters. I think a twilight meeting in Sydney starting around 3-4pm with Caulfield starting around midday. If Sydney had a concert in the evening too, the place will rock.

The Everest has changed the landscape but it is still young so can either work both ways in the success factor for the future.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Antitab# on 2019-Oct-20, 12:25 PM
I don’t see how anyone with any common sense can respond to the Everest and PVL’s role in it with anything other than the highest praise.

The Everest is already Australia’s second most popular race in terms of publicity and more importantly turnover.

Will it ever reach the Melbourne Cup?

  I suspect not,  but three years ago no one would have predicted the meteoric rise of the Everest.

Who knows where it will sit in 20 years.

Logic tells me that a racing jurisdiction as dependent on the Sprinting breed as Australia could possibly have a six furlong race in its largest city as its Premier event.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-20, 12:27 PM
The Everest IMO will never takeover the Melbourne Cup as Australia's number one race because....

A. It might be the richest turf race in the world  with the majority of the stakemoney provided by wealthy slot holders

Bubbs, I gotta say.....who cares aside from 2 or  of us in here. It appears JFC, you and that clown mair agree.....good luck with that  :lol:


B. The Melbourne Cup has been run since 1861, the Everest 3 times, let's see where it sits in 10, 20 or 50 years,

Thats the whole point of it. Build it. You have to start somewhere and PV has done that. Hats off to him


C. Over the past week I have not heard of any office in Dubbo, Swan Hill, Kalgoorlie or Cairns getting together and running an office sweep on the Everest, yet in each of those towns, like elsewhere in Australia, office sweeps will be run on the first Tuesday in November.

Mate, I can assure you that in NSW the office sweep and functions are a thing of yesteryear. I work in hospitality and I can promise you the muber of pubs & clubs even bothering weith functions is nothing compared to what it was.



F. I have read that the Cup has lost its appeal because it has been internationalized with overseas runners. The average  once-a-year punter or office sweep participant cares less whether their horse if from Australia, Dubai, NZ, Ireland or Timbuktu , they embrace Cup Day for what it is, close enough to the only day in Australia where  the country unites.

As I said, thats far from my non Melbournecentric view


 Have a look of what Australia Day has become.. Invasion Day.

Ditto MC day


F. Unlike regular punters, the vast majority of once -a -year punters next week could not tell you five horses who ran in yesterday's Everest. The same might be said of those once-a-year  punters about the Cup but I am sure if they won on the Cup with a bet or in a sweep they will remember that win for years.

G.   BTW the breeding industry has enough to clean up on its own plate with the revelations on that 7.30 Report last week.


Mate. The breeding induistry is one of the reasons our racing industry is so great. Sad that you want to throw the vile mud of that 7:30 report at the Everest. Quite disingenuous :sad:

By the way. what was the turnover on the cup day meeting yesterday?

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-20, 12:28 PM
PP, not a bad idea but I think turnover will be down considerably if the Everest was at night. I usually lose interest after the last in Sydney or Melbourne and that would be the same for most punters. I think a twilight meeting in Sydney starting around 3-4pm with Caulfield starting around midday. If Sydney had a concert in the evening too, the place will rock.

The Everest has changed the landscape but it is still young so can either work both ways in the success factor for the future.

WE need a like button on this forum.

Magic or the mods.........can you arrange it
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-20, 12:38 PM
I don’t see how anyone with any common sense can respond to the Everest and PVL’s role in it with anything other than the highest praise.

I do.

The proven fake prize money is just the start.

And the slot holders are cronies. Tabcorp, clubs and breeders.

It is beyond me why any honest person would contemplate buying a slot.

I couldn't see a benefit for anybody.

Then I read Kate McClymont's homage to Alan Jones, to eventually realise it's great for inflating stud fees even further.

And let's not forget how well V'landys has censored the media. Even Channel 9 now is a sucker for Everest ads, and so ignored the big slaughter story.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-20, 12:49 PM
I don’t see how anyone with any common sense can respond to the Everest and PVL’s role in it with anything other than the highest praise.

 but three years ago no one would have predicted the meteoric rise of the Everest.



It took me two minutes to find these gems from the knockers  :lol:



"RNSW is similarly afflicted with dreams of grandeur that run foul of the 'eggs in baskets' rule "
   3 years down the rack ....WRONG

"the only prospective disappointment being  people in NSW will still staying away from the track. ".......Clearly WRONG  :lol:

" I could find nothing to suggest such 'high turnover' on the big-race with the possible exception of the F4 pool on the NSW TAB site."....What was the turnover yesterday :chin:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2019-Oct-20, 01:07 PM
PP, You posted "I can tell you in Sydney it has been all about The Everest. Front page nearly every day and everyone know it was on. Much talked about and always described as "the world's richest race". That gets Joe Public in."
Whenever I travel on public transport, visit the doctor or have a haircut I never see any person reading a newspaper
 


This is a racing forum where all contributors , bar one or two, understand and following racing.  we are a very small snap shot of the population. 99% of the population do not care about racing from the end of November until all the football finals are finished in the following October,  then, here in Melbourne, it slowly builds up in interest from the Caulfield Cup  meeting until the VRC Carnival is over.From Derby day onwards it is all over the television, radio, & even the newspapers, where most once a year punters get their form. If you were to ask the non race going public about racing 1/100 would know nothing of the Everest and 80/100 would know of the Cup., if the Everest is able to ever get anything like that recognition over the next ten, let alone thirty years, then you might put the Everest up there on a pedestal with the Cup, but until then, it is pure supposition.

The Everest appears to be a one off day where Sydney embraces racing, whereas the Melbourne  carnival goes over many meetings. Parties and fashion are as much as the carnival as racing all culminating in Cup day, which as we all know extends beyond the Victorian border. The carnival, to a degree, is even backed up by the Country Cup carnivals where from early September to the end of November there is a country cup at all the provincial meeting throughout the state. The flow on from those cups creates further interest in the Cup because many of the winners of those cups get a run in the Cup.


Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-20, 02:20 PM
Bubba - you said this

If you were to ask the non race going public about racing 1/100 would know nothing of the Everest and 80/100 would know of the Cup

I'm telling you while I don't know about Melbourne or other cities, that figure (1/100) would be way out in Sydney. Way, way out. I'd say of the literate adult population in Sydney I'd be surprised if 75/100 didn't know the race was on.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-20, 02:34 PM

And let's not forget how well V'landys has censored the media. Even Channel 9 now is a sucker for Everest ads, and so ignored the big slaughter story.

I don't get this last bit jfc.

How can V'Landys "censor" the media?

Channel 9 is a commercial operation. Even if dingbats like Peter Fitzsimons don't like the Everest they are obliged to accept the business and put the ads on air.

Otherwise the shareholders would be rightly unimpressed.

From what I can tell, the "big slaughter story" had nothing to do with the Everest in particular. It was about Qld abattoirs?

The timing of a negative story about racing by the ABC was designed to damage Racing NSW and PVL - and it didn't work. Alan Jones is one of the biggest critics of the ABC and they (the ABC) sided with Louise Adler in the spat over the Opera House last year.

My own belief is that the story was a political "get square" and even though the ABC would deny it nothing would change that belief. They - the ABC - are a bunch of discredited liars.

They should get rid of the city based news and current affairs and make it regional - where the bulk of the loyal audience lives. 7.30 on a weeknight should be entertainment - not some political crap boring people to death. Half hour news bulletin starting at 7 p.m. is plenty.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-20, 02:37 PM
That's clearly not what Bubba meant.

It's hard not to know it was on given the extravagant publicity blitz.

But what else do people know?

Seems to me the majority here don't know what it is.

Do they know that it's fake prize money, fake slot holders and fake consequent exorbitant stud fees?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2019-Oct-20, 03:37 PM
Bubba - you said this

If you were to ask the non race going public about racing 1/100 would know nothing of the Everest and 80/100 would know of the Cup

I'm telling you while I don't know about Melbourne or other cities, that figure (1/100) would be way out in Sydney. Way, way out. I'd say of the literate adult population in Sydney I'd be surprised if 75/100 didn't know the race was on.
PP7 I will take your superior knowledge of Sydneysiders than myself, however how many literate non racing going AUSTRALIANS do you think know of the Everest against that same group of  AUSTRALIANS knowing about the Melbourne Cup ? If in ten years there is as many in the former as the later you will have won the debate but until then the Everest is coming off a huge back mark.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-20, 03:47 PM
PP7 I will take your superior knowledge of Sydneysiders than myself, however how many literate non racing going AUSTRALIANS do you think know of the Everest against that same group of  AUSTRALIANS knowing about the Melbourne Cup ? If in ten years there is as many in the former as the later you will have won the debate but until then the Everest is coming off a huge back mark.

Yes. Coming off 80m. But coming nonetheless.

Think I just saw it move past the Caulfield Cup (which has galloped) and the Cox Plate and is coming after the tearaway leader   :biggrin:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Oct-20, 06:34 PM

..........tangential angles

The posts on this thread are heading in different directions.

The delay, before the commencement of the banking royal commission, is illustrative of the way the world can work slowly when issues are being more sharply defined.

Racing needs an insider 'whistle-blower' to lift the lid on any internals substituting greed for giving the punters a fair go.

There would be some riveting policy papers proposing the payment of prize-money down to 10th -- at both RVL and RNSW.

..... ...... this was greed writ large............ overwhelming the integrity of the product .......... defrauding punters.

The DOJustice in Victoria should be in turmoil about protesting (or not) the renewal of Victorian arrangements allowing rorting.

The ACCC is more 'federal' in its focus but as the pressure builds for a 'please explain' the rorting in the major racing jurisdictions may also build interest in a truly 'national' racing industry policy.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-20, 09:03 PM
No one wanting to pass on the turnover figures?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-20, 09:58 PM
I will bite. Some reports are Everest may have surpassed CC in turnover but meeting reports are mixed with Caulfield ahead so not sure what is the truth.

The other issue is that the corporates are also taking a bite too so Tab figures are no longer the end of the saga due to the twists and spins of racing bodies.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-21, 05:26 AM
No one wanting to pass on the turnover figures?
Try expressing yourself correctly.

And if you want to discuss turnover why don't you table the figures here!

Whereupon you could end up looking stupid.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-21, 06:07 AM
Come on you two. It was a question I asked about 2 pages back.

No need to jump at shadows. No sinister  motives


Oh, and JFC............
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-21, 06:22 AM
Why haven't you still looked up the turnover for yourself!

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-21, 07:29 AM
Everest expects strong numbers but wagering a tale of two cities

Brendan Cormick
Racing Writer


Wagering turnover may prove to be a tale of two cities, with The Everest meeting expected to again generate strong numbers and some reservations about betting figures on the Caulfield Cup card.

It may take until Tuesday to get a complete picture of TAB and bookmaker turnover and how it compared with recent years when The Everest was run on Caulfield Guineas Day and not Caulfield Cup Day, as it was this year.

The Everest was hailed an extraordinary success by Racing NSW boss Peter V’landys, who applauded the Australian Turf Club for the way they hosted the event. The official attendance of 40,912 — while a fraction down on last year — was more than acceptable.

...

At Caulfield, just over 28,000 people experienced four seasons in the day, as compared with in excess of 29,000 last year. With 22,000 attending on Guineas Day and 7000 for Wednesday’s Blue Sapphire Day, overall attendances will be satisfactory.

Melbourne Racing Club chief executive Josh Blanksby said it would be fascinating to see the wagering figures. Guineas Day was down to pre-Everest levels.

“It was a $130m day last year, so we’ll see if having The Everest was a positive or a negative for it,” Blanksby said.

The Melbourne Racing Club entered into a one-year agreement to host a slot in The Everest, the winner of the Schillaci Stakes on October 12 given the opportunity to back up.

Trekking won the Schillaci and finished just under a length from Yes Yes Yes in third place in The Everest. The club shared in $1.24m prizemoney with Godolphin and an MRC member pocketed $50,000 in an owner-for-the-day experience.

“It wasn’t really about the prizemoney but positives associated with the relationship, the PR opportunity and boosting the Schillaci, but we’ll end up making some money out of it,” Blanksby said.

Form guru Gary Crispe said Yes Yes Yes ran to a Timeform rating of 125, which ranks the colt among the very best three-year-old sprinters of the modern era.

“The Everest was an elite Group I standard contest, I don’t think there has been a better sprint race run in the world this year,” Crispe said.

“We have the race’s ‘field strength value’ at a rating of 125 which is higher than the previous two Everests.”

Waller’s training genius cannot be overstated. He admitted to making a mistake preparing Yes Yes Yes for the Golden Rose then urged connections to give the colt his chance in The Everest.

The champion trainer has already prepared the winners of 66 races including five at Group 1 level for stable earnings of $16.6m — and the 2019-20 season is not even three months old.

Yes Yes Yes is likely to return to three-year-old sprints after his brilliant course record-breaking blitz in the world’s richest turf race at Royal Randwick last Saturday.

Trainer Chris Waller and the crack colt’s ownership group including Coolmore Australia will discuss whether to keep Yes Yes Yes in training for at least one more race this spring carnival.

Coolmore’s Rob Archibald said “nothing has been set in stone” for Yes Yes Yes but expects a decision to be made on the colt’s immediate racing future in the next 48 hours.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/horse-racing/everest-expects-strong-numbers-but-wagering-a-tale-of-two-cities/

They only get 28,000 to the Caulfield Cup these days?

Can someone tell wily, me and Brendan Cormack where we can look up the turnover figures please?

BC seems to be saying they won't be available until tomorrow but JFC is implying they are available now.

The TAB Win Pool holds for NSW were

CC $791,368.80
Ev $1,328,851.70

I would expect Victoria to be the opposite and not sure about other states.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-21, 08:04 AM
So why didn't you put the Vic figures up!

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-21, 09:08 AM
Quote from: PoisonPen7 link=topic=19084.msg675655#msg675655 date=


 Can someone tell wily, me and Brendan Cormack where we can look up the turnover figures please?

[/quote


Thank you
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-21, 09:25 AM
Wily,

you registered here in December 2005.

If you considered yourself wily at that time imagine how much more knowledgeable you are now.

And you ask us to believe you don't know how to look up turnover for yourself, and need others to do it for you!

Now I can't force you or PP7 to disclose Supertab figures but you're not doing yourselves favours by delaying.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Oct-21, 09:29 AM
Your reading way toooo much into my request  :shy:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-21, 10:00 AM
Wily,

you registered here in December 2005.

If you considered yourself wily at that time imagine how much more knowledgeable you are now.

And you ask us to believe you don't know how to look up turnover for yourself, and need others to do it for you!

Now I can't force you or PP7 to disclose Supertab figures but you're not doing yourselves favours by delaying.

I couldn't be bothered clearing my cache, deleting cookies and reloading tab.com.au and pretending to be I'm in Victoria

Unless there is another url???
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: JWesleyHarding on 2019-Oct-21, 10:06 AM
I couldn't be bothered clearing my cache, deleting cookies and reloading tab.com.au and pretending to be I'm in Victoria

Why would anyone want to pretend they are in Victoria? :chin:

Surely it's bad enough actually being there. :tears:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-21, 10:15 AM
Hope Tabcorp appreciates your testimonial to the intuitiveness of its site.

Bottom left of the Menu panel is a drop-down allowing navigation between NSW VIC ACT.

Evidently they forgotten they bought QLD.

I've spent so much of my life staring at computer screens that my eyes no longer work properly.

And so with my enlarged Zoom that part of the Menu is invisible to me.


Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-21, 10:41 AM
Mine is solid green NSW and I cannot change that - if that is what you are talking about.


(https://i.postimg.cc/5jN5fx4w/tab-menu.png) (https://postimg.cc/5jN5fx4w)
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-21, 11:06 AM
Wonder why that works for me?

Maybe V'landys got Tabcorp to rig their site so all bets from anywhere get redirected to NSW?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: sobig on 2019-Oct-21, 02:09 PM
If you are logged in to tab.com.au you can only see the state you are registered in.

However if you open tab.com.au without logging in you get the opportunity to look at different states.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-21, 02:30 PM
Thanks sobig   emthup

Wow. Talk about transpositions

NSW TAB
CC $791,368.80
Ev $1,328,851.70

Victab
CC 1,351,196.44
Ev 721,529.54

I cannot get the comparative figures because TABCorp only publishes 12 months and the 12 months for Saturday is actually > 12 months by a day or two.

If we were prepared we could get the figures for Derby Day in preparation for the running of the Golden Eagle for the first time.

(The Carbine Club winner went around at Wyong yesterday).



Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-21, 02:42 PM

NSW TAB
CC $791,368.80 $1,218,681.40
Ev $1,328,851.70 $1,381,093.10

Victab
CC 1,351,196.44 $1,884,212.31
Ev 721,529.54 $676,485.45

I cannot get the comparative figures because TABCorp only publishes 12 months and the 12 months for Saturday is actually > 12 months by a day or two.

If we were prepared we could get the figures for Derby Day in preparation for the running of the Golden Eagle for the first time.

(The Carbine Club winner went around at Wyong yesterday).
I can.

Presumably I have far more storage than Tabcorp.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-21, 02:44 PM
I can.

Presumably I have far more storage than Tabcorp.

Well are you going to leave me and wily soaking our own clothes in saliva or publish the data  :what:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-21, 02:56 PM
Well are you going to leave me and wily soaking our own clothes in saliva or publish the data  :what:
Try looking. I am the one claiming defective eyesight.

Looks like Victoria was damaged.

But NSW could not even improve.

I'm not sure how that furthers racing.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-21, 06:08 PM
I have myopia and don't have my glasses on me.

Some of the other big betting races in Sydney

Doncaster Hcp Apr 2019 won by Brutal

NSW TAB Win pool $568,294.50 (vs $1,328,851 for Everest)
Vic TAB Win Pool $384,229.33 (vs $751,529 for Everest)

Golden Slipper Mar 2019 won by Kiamici

NSW TAB Win pool $859,606.27 (vs $1,328,851 for Everest)
Vic TAB Win Pool $474,639.94 (vs $751,529 for Everest)

So using (probably) the two biggest betting events run in NSW, The Everest has surpassed them when using both NSW and Victorian punter's betting habits as a measure.

So it follows all those who were bagging the Everest as something that would never work were clearly wrong.

And it would be nice if they acknowledged their error and ate their humble pie here   :lol:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-21, 06:22 PM
I'd be very surprised if I claimed The Everest will never work, as I intentionally avoid making those types of claims.

The turnover is presumably because of the massive publicity from media stitched up by V'landys.

And I've demonstrated at least part of the prize money is fake, making the publicity a fake.

Also Randwick is a shithole. It's the last place any avid racegoer would want to be on a crowded day.

I'd love to know how many of the rank and file missed out on seeing the race there.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-21, 06:33 PM
PP, some very interesting numbers with the wagers on the Sydney races. Everest is good for racing especially in Sydney. Best field this year in any race as I said in another topic.

Are there any numbers on crowd figures etc too for the races? Everest should be double on the other racing Sydney crowds I think.

By the way does your tab numbers differentiate between on course amounts and off course etc. The only reason I ask is both Sydney and Melbourne figures for the major races would be affected by the attendance. If an extra 20000 attended the meeting, pretty good chance an extra couple of hundred thousand would be wagered with the TAB. CC crowd would do the same but the Doncaster meeting would have a lower crowd in Sydney as well as Melbourne Autumn carnivals are over so crowd numbers will be less than 10k max especially with AFL season underway.

Also the extra the Everest does is expose more sponsorship dollars and crowds so it is not just about turnover.

I as a racing fan enjoyed the CC and Everest on the weekend. I just wish the hype will return to the Melbourne spring carnival. It is about 2 weeks away from the Big one but just no buildup.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Atreus on 2019-Oct-21, 06:55 PM
The Everest is great if you are an advertising executive

The Everest was a good race but it was not $14 million dollars good.  And how do we even know if these slots are fully paid up???  We know the Pegasus slots were not being fully paid up in the USA for the 2nd running of that event

The quality of the field was no better than many G1 sprints over the years when the prizemoney was only 500K or a million

How many of the 40000 crowd were there to see the concert not the race?

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Oct-21, 07:57 PM


The Everest is a G1 race -- no question

     ......  ....  policy issues here are about 'dare to be great' tactics coupled with 'tricks' to inflate advertised prize-money to claim 'world best' status.

.......... childish behaviour!......... mine is bigger than yours!............. do not send us a pic.

Artificially 'boosting' on-course attendance is another 'trick' intended to draw lemmings (and country folk).

The Phlegmington' carnival has little to do with the racing these days -- do not cough-up.

We know what happened when another Don King 'donkey' wrecked the boxing business.

That donkey has clones.

Australian racing needs to accept that it is overblown and  'on the skids'  -- as it is in every other country in our relevant reference group.

Preserving a credible industry is about honoring the history with quality racing of local horses  -- not 'destroying' the Cups with global fawning.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-21, 09:40 PM

Are there any numbers on crowd figures etc too for the races? Everest should be double on the other racing Sydney crowds I think.


40k at Randwick. 28k at Caulfield. Both down a thousand or so on the corresponding meets last year.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-21, 09:41 PM
The Everest is great if you are an advertising executive

The Everest was a good race but it was not $14 million dollars good.  And how do we even know if these slots are fully paid up???  We know the Pegasus slots were not being fully paid up in the USA for the 2nd running of that event

The quality of the field was no better than many G1 sprints over the years when the prizemoney was only 500K or a million

How many of the 40000 crowd were there to see the concert not the race?

Your opinion and you are entitled to it Atreus.

But the evidence of betting figures suggest otherwise.......my opinion  :)
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-22, 06:44 AM
PP, is there a break up of on course and off course figures as that will be a major guide for the future and bringing crowds in?

I remember in the old days, the Tab used to have CC figures in the millions but the corporates and Tab fixed odds have polluted this as they are not included in the raw figures.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2019-Oct-22, 07:01 AM
From my extensive hair pulling research into the matter Tabcorp (+PVL) goes to massive lengths to misreport such figures.

It hides On Course in Other.

Also my bet is most serious On Course Turnover is through phone apps or Commission Agents, so it's a futile exercise trying to draw illuminating conclusions.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Oct-22, 11:24 AM


On-course attendances --the facts as reported are not a fair reflection of the truth


40k at Randwick. 28k at Caulfield. Both down a thousand or so on the corresponding meets last year.

The nonsense inherent in the apparent 'superiority' of Everest-day is immediately apparent.

There is no way the Caulfield Cup attendance would fall-short of any Randwick meeting unless the outcome was contrived.

The mechanics of pulling a crowd in Sydney are a mix of distributing thousands of 'free tickets' and, presumably, loyal country race participants coming down to the big-smoke following a local runner in the k-ko curtain raiser.

..... ............until audited  'free ticket' numbers are disclosed it is just another illustration of the 'dependent' racing media  taking dictation but not questioning.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-23, 06:03 PM
Not sure who the bright spark in NRL who thought having their own tv production crew and on selling to commercial or pay tv was a good idea. TVN is a prime example.

NRL get over a billion dollars in the tv deals and if they try to add more with the production costs, the consumer will pay more if the pay tv charges more.

Cricket has not been great for Foxtel and Channel 7 so this year without the ashes will be quite interesting as many don’t want to pay for cricket.

Vlandys will have his work cut trying to get a better deal with pay tv especially if there is no expansion and higher costs.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Arsenal on 2019-Oct-23, 06:26 PM
Interesting story on Mr V'Landys on www.letsgohorseracing reproduced with approval from Fairfax Media story by Jane Cadzow in Good Weekend ..well worth a read friends and enemies alike....this is a taste

"Even his admirers, and there are a lot of them, shiver slightly when they think about the consequences of falling out with V'landys. "I don't think I'd ever want to be on his wrong side," says Josh Blanksby, chief executive of the Melbourne Racing Club. V'landys insists his fearsome reputation is unwarranted. He told Cadzow for her story that people who meet him are pleasantly surprised, often confiding to him that he isn't as bad as they expected. "It happens all the time," he says. "I'm not this monster they all think I am. I'm quite the opposite."

https://www.letsgohorseracing.com.au/


Giddy Up :beer:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Oct-23, 07:33 PM

Pete the fixer

....... it helps if the government is happy to 'do as you ask',  lets you take the credit -- trained media do not ask (or think).
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-24, 06:09 AM
PP, is there a break up of on course and off course figures as that will be a major guide for the future and bringing crowds in?

I remember in the old days, the Tab used to have CC figures in the millions but the corporates and Tab fixed odds have polluted this as they are not included in the raw figures.

My stats were very superficial mate and I don't have access to detailed stats.

Unless someone is betting in "Venue mode" on their TAB app, then there is going to be a lot of on-course TAB money not reported.

Strange as it may seem, a lot of the younger people attending the races probably wouldn't even know how to put a bet on in the traditional way where you line up and tell the operator your bets - they have no need to bet that way.

And all on-course wagering conducted with corporates will be via an app.

So I don't think "off course vs. on course" can be properly assessed these days.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-24, 06:36 AM
Actually PP, not being sexist but many of the fairer sex bet with the Tab. The main reason being many of them don’t have any accounts with the corporates.

The young males usually bet on their apps but some of them end up betting with the tab on the exotics as they are mostly sports punters.

The only reason I know is we have been with big and different groups and it is very noticeable what they do as they usually ask me how to bet etc. There is also a great reluctance on the part of females to open up a betting account.

That is the reason why I find on course and off fascinating these days especially on big days but can never find figures.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-24, 09:17 AM
Actually PP, not being sexist but many of the fairer sex bet with the Tab. The main reason being many of them don’t have any accounts with the corporates.

The young males usually bet on their apps but some of them end up betting with the tab on the exotics as they are mostly sports punters.

The only reason I know is we have been with big and different groups and it is very noticeable what they do as they usually ask me how to bet etc. There is also a great reluctance on the part of females to open up a betting account.

That is the reason why I find on course and off fascinating these days especially on big days but can never find figures.

My 24yo son and his GF bet on their phones and they were out there at the Everest.

My oldest daughter has an account but the youngest one doesn't.

But I know what you mean.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-25, 04:55 PM
My 24yo son and his GF bet on their phones and they were out there at the Everest.

My oldest daughter has an account but the youngest one doesn't.

But I know what you mean.

Not being too personal but does your son and his GF bet on horses regularly or sports?

I find most of the youngsters are geared towards the sports especially the footy and even more in the last few years, the NBA.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-25, 09:39 PM
Not being too personal but does your son and his GF bet on horses regularly or sports?

I find most of the youngsters are geared towards the sports especially the footy and even more in the last few years, the NBA.

Son (oldest child) bets on horses at carnival times when he goes to the races with his mates. GF never bets unless she is at the races with him.
Oldest daughter has a Ladbrokes account and bets on "sports" (mainly Cronulla Sharks and The Block FFS)
Youngest daughter never bets.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-25, 11:29 PM
Interesting story floating around Vlandys and him taking over from Beattie.

Seems there is a bit of amusement from a few club executives on how Vlandys avoided the media in regards to Racing wastage issue.

They are wondering if they will have to face the music if anything bad happens or can do a Vlandys.

The test case will be the De Bellin case which is supposed to resolved prior to the start of the season. There is a lot riding on it either way except Beattie.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-27, 09:59 AM
Vlandys takes over from Beattie officially with the next two weeks and has inherited issues that his predecessor could not sort.

Beattie danced around the expansion issue including a committee to investigate etc. Their recommendations are status quo according to media reports which will annoy many in Queensland, Central Coast and Western Australia. Relocation will be the only option for these places which is not palatable for many fans with Titans being the favourites for relocation.

Player behaviour and the stand down policy will be interesting to see after the Debellin case. The question that will keep arising what do they do with the players. Vlandys cannot look after every player and it is ultimately the responsibility of the payers and the clubs. Vlandys unfortunately has to deal with the aftermath as Beattie and Greenberg had too.

The next tv deal is tipped to be lower unless technology improves even further with the streaming and you have Facebook or Google or Apple or another internet giant join the party. Foxtel is losing millions each year and sports deals are part of the problem. Kayo sports is cannibalising Foxtel too. The negotiations will start late this year and whatever happens AFL will be watching too.

Vlandys also has to reign in NRL administration costs amid lower crowds and viewers. Part of the issue is bonuses of almost a $1m has been paid part of this year’s revenue due to some canny contract negotiations previously. Some NRL clubs are unhappy over this as it means they get less of the pie.

The stadium rebuilds will help crowds in the short term but unless Vlandys and co can attract people back to the games long term, it will be playing in half empty stadiums again. They need to lower ticket costs as most people including me see no attraction to goto multiple games. We try to go at least one to two games per year but rather watch the game on tv due to the costs.

Every move of Vlandys will be scrutinised amidst how much time he spends on each of his Racing Nsw and  NRL jobs. But kudos for him in trying and his business relationship might help them both. Promotions involving NRL and Racing NSW together can be a reality however any conflict of interest will be raised by his critics.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-27, 12:07 PM
Interesting story floating around Vlandys and him taking over from Beattie.

Seems there is a bit of amusement from a few club executives on how Vlandys avoided the media in regards to Racing wastage issue.

They are wondering if they will have to face the music if anything bad happens or can do a Vlandys.

The test case will be the De Bellin case which is supposed to resolved prior to the start of the season. There is a lot riding on it either way except Beattie.

How do you interpret that he "avoided the media"?

He was the only racing head that agreed to be interviewed by the ABC.

Given that the very worst happened in Qld what is becoming amazing is how the PVL haters seem to have turned this into a NSW issue. Racing NSW actually rescued some NSW horses from Victoria that were headed for the doggers.

Some people will bag PVL regardless of what he does. He has pissed a few people off by acting in the best interest of NSW industry participants and they will twist anything.

Who are the "they" you are referring to? Some grub NRL journalists?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-27, 01:32 PM
PP, I think you must be a Vlandys groupie or his PR rep.

Can he do no wrong? I like Vlandys and majority of what he has done to NSW racing is quite good. Read all my posts.
 But I can also be critical too. Judging Vlandys seems to be like politics with most of this forum. It is either for him or not and nothing in the middle. That is Ike the political support in the forum. People cannot take the blinkers off. However when you accuse them of bias or being unreasonable, they will produce one post being critical out of a 100.

I compare this to some of the political media and use our old mate AJ, majority of the time he has been supportive of the conservatives but has critical of a few of their policies till they fold. However he has never supported Labor but the conservatives will say he is not fully one of us but in the left.

In answer to your question regarding Vlandys and the media. Here is what one RL high up said to a friend of mine. Vlandys will not be able to pick and choose who he gives exclusives to like he does now otherwise he will alienate rest of the media. This is why we see NRL scandals being exposed. He also said many in the RL world would not like him to pay vast amounts of money to News Corp as he does from the Racing Industry to promote racing. The amount includes advertising etc too.

Vlandys is smart enough to realise this but some of his supporters are not. He likes critics as it spurs him on especially if it is personal, however he knows popularity amongst the people is what he needs to get changes across. He is strong enough to defend himself

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Oct-27, 02:59 PM
PP, I think you must be a Vlandys groupie or his PR rep.

Can he do no wrong? I like Vlandys and majority of what he has done to NSW racing is quite good. Read all my posts.
 But I can also be critical too. Judging Vlandys seems to be like politics with most of this forum. It is either for him or not and nothing in the middle. That is Ike the political support in the forum. People cannot take the blinkers off. However when you accuse them of bias or being unreasonable, they will produce one post being critical out of a 100.

I compare this to some of the political media and use our old mate AJ, majority of the time he has been supportive of the conservatives but has critical of a few of their policies till they fold. However he has never supported Labor but the conservatives will say he is not fully one of us but in the left.

In answer to your question regarding Vlandys and the media. Here is what one RL high up said to a friend of mine. Vlandys will not be able to pick and choose who he gives exclusives to like he does now otherwise he will alienate rest of the media. This is why we see NRL scandals being exposed. He also said many in the RL world would not like him to pay vast amounts of money to News Corp as he does from the Racing Industry to promote racing. The amount includes advertising etc too.

Vlandys is smart enough to realise this but some of his supporters are not. He likes critics as it spurs him on especially if it is personal, however he knows popularity amongst the people is what he needs to get changes across. He is strong enough to defend himself

But in your reply, you didn't address my point about him "avoiding the media".

I think the opposite. He made himself available to the ABC. Where was the head of RQ? RVL?

And as I commented, the interview was heavily edited (if you watch the show, look at the background - it keeps changing) and I think that was done to paint him in a bad light.

It was an investigative piece where the theme was pre-determined.

I have no problem with them going after sadists like the one shown in Caboolture.

But any idiot can set up a hidden camera right at the point of the end of life of a slaughtered animal and horrify people.

It would have been equally disturbing if the hidden camera had have been showing lambs, cows or calves in their final moments.

And showing it two days before the Everest? Come on. We are all worldly wise here. This was a set up.


On V'Landys and his upcoming role in the NRL.

I do not know what to expect. I was surprised he took the gig. He is on a hiding to nothing.

As a follower of NRL and AFL, one of the things that separates the games is the journalists.

In the AFL, journalists (in general) really love the game and it shows in their reporting.

In the NRL we have people like Phil Rothfield, Danny Weidler and Gus Gould.

These guys compete with one another on who can come up with the most negative story. Rothfield claims he is a Cronulla supporter but at times seems to be leading the charge to have them relocated.

V'Landys is in for a tough time if he thinks these guys are motivated by a love of the game. They are not and will see him as an "opportunity" for grubby journalism.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-27, 04:02 PM
But in your reply, you didn't address my point about him "avoiding the media".

I think the opposite. He made himself available to the ABC. Where was the head of RQ? RVL?

And as I commented, the interview was heavily edited (if you watch the show, look at the background - it keeps changing) and I think that was done to paint him in a bad light.

It was an investigative piece where the theme was pre-determined.

I have no problem with them going after sadists like the one shown in Caboolture.

But any idiot can set up a hidden camera right at the point of the end of life of a slaughtered animal and horrify people.

It would have been equally disturbing if the hidden camera had have been showing lambs, cows or calves in their final moments.

And showing it two days before the Everest? Come on. We are all worldly wise here. This was a set up.


On V'Landys and his upcoming role in the NRL.

I do not know what to expect. I was surprised he took the gig. He is on a hiding to nothing.

As a follower of NRL and AFL, one of the things that separates the games is the journalists.

In the AFL, journalists (in general) really love the game and it shows in their reporting.

In the NRL we have people like Phil Rothfield, Danny Weidler and Gus Gould.

These guys compete with one another on who can come up with the most negative story. Rothfield claims he is a Cronulla supporter but at times seems to be leading the charge to have them relocated.

V'Landys is in for a tough time if he thinks these guys are motivated by a love of the game. They are not and will see him as an "opportunity" for grubby journalism.

PP, I have referenced other Racing bodies and heads in sand on another topic. My issue is that Vlandys chose to go on a friendly chat with AJ after the report broke instead of a media conference. That gave the impression to many outside the industry that he has something to hide. People don’t forget about the Opera House similar to pollies who don’t forget when bad things happen to them. The ABC report with him was edited but I truly think he did not know how bad the report was going to be otherwise I am not sure if he would have agreed or his guard would have been down like that.

In regards to NRL journalism, there are many journalists including the 3 you named who are critical at times of the NRL. They know that controversy sells. The  difference between NRL and racing is that more people care about NRL than racing except at major carnival time. Compare the number of NRL stories, tipping competitions, sponsorship etc.

The other big factor is NRL can exist without betting while racing cannot. Thus the racing media does not bite the hand that feeds it while NRL media can.  The racing media also knows there are many more scandals in racing than NRL but majority of the time no one cares and there are not that many jobs out there if they lose the trust of the racing participants if they expose them.

In NRL, you have many self interests who are prepared to use the media.

There are worse NRL behaviour than some that hits the media but there are deals done for exclusives. All you have do is to read some journalists and look at their positive stories about some clubs and if you dig deeper there will be no negatives even when someone else exposes things.

Vlandys has majority of the time got positive press from the NSW side when it comes to racing. I don’t think he will get it in NRL as much unless he throws his weight around which will not win many friends. Also the NRL board is not that friendly at times too compared to the Racing Board

I think he may revolutionise NRL to some  extent but I don’t think it will be as much as Racing. I will be intrigued to see which one he gives up first in the next few years as the workload will be high especially for someone who is hands on.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Oct-29, 06:38 AM
Anyone know what the crowd figures were like with the Bondi?

I cannot find it or if anyone can post links to race crowd figures will be great.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-02, 11:33 PM
All reports, crowd today was not flash. Plenty of room and not many queues was the general consensus from some of my mates who went today.

Horses were good especially Pierata and Kolding. The cup field was disappointing compared to the prizemoney offered.

Not sure where they expect the Golden Eagle to be in a few years as my mates got the tickets for free from their TAB account. Then another mate managed to get them members on the day.

They did enjoy the day but also said was too hot and will not be back next year. Atmosphere was ok but nothing like the Slipper at the “Hill”.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-03, 01:55 AM
All reports, crowd today was not flash. Plenty of room and not many queues was the general consensus from some of my mates who went today.

Horses were good especially Pierata and Kolding. The cup field was disappointing compared to the prizemoney offered.

Not sure where they expect the Golden Eagle to be in a few years as my mates got the tickets for free from their TAB account. Then another mate managed to get them members on the day.

They did enjoy the day but also said was too hot and will not be back next year. Atmosphere was ok but nothing like the Slipper at the “Hill”.

I think in general the racing has been excellent this Spring. The Golden Eagle field was of high quality, with the Epsom winner beating triple G1 winner and MM winner Sunlight (hands up those who weren't cheering her on when she hit the front). Of the beaten brigade there was a Doncaster winner, the champion from the West and 3 overseas 4YOs. Apart from Mystic Journey, was there any other significant 4YOs missing?

Crowd shots showed unoccupied seats but this is only the first year and the race never got the publicity of The Everest.

Conceptually, a championship race for 4YOs is a winner IMO. Deserves consideration on whether it would be better off in the Autumn...not convinced either way but it would be a good fit on the Saturday after the All Aged.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2019-Nov-03, 06:01 AM
I am posting this at the unearthly hour on Sunday morning because I cannot sleep as I fell down some stairs at home the other day and fractured a couple of ribs, so here I go...
Now that Vlandys has now thrown all his eggs into the basket to distract attention away from the Melbourne Spring Carnival to The Everest, The Golden Eagle and a few other races should we  now assess how his attempted sabotage of the Melbourne Carnival has gone?
TAB turnover on Sydney races in  NSW has gone through the roof, in other states it has also increased much to the detriment of Caulfield Cup Day, on Derby Day I have yet to see turnover figures.
On Everest day the attendance at Randwick was far more than the previous year on the same meeting, however on Golden Eagle meeting is was nothing to write home about if one is to take into account all the freebies that were handed out.
In Melbourne the attendance on Caulfield Cup Day was down , however with terrible weather 80,000 + attended Derby Day. The VRC carnival is not only about racing but fashion, socialising, networking etc, if one is to have a look at the amount of resources companies put into marketing and their marquees at the VRC carnival it would double the prize money of all the Sydney races. I doubt what ever Vlandys pulls out of his hat nothing will have any impact on the VRC carnival, you cannot buy tradition by throwing prize money around like confetti,
This is the first running of those races in Sydney, so to be fair, their long term affect is still open to debate, but for the present the Caulfield Cup Day is vulnerable, but Cup Week is untouchable.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Nov-03, 07:55 AM
Bubbs, in years to come Mackinnon stakes day will grow. Hopefully it takes over from the farcical Cox plate.
I anticipate many of the Eagle 4yo will go to the Mackinnon in the coming years
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-03, 08:20 AM
There was an interesting article below from James McDonald below.

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/mixed-emotions-for-james-mcdonald-heading-into-saturday-20191101

I think it sums up many in the industry. Like politics, racing seems to be split. I just did not think the publicity was there for the Golden Eagle compared to Derby Day.

Unfortunately, I don’t know what the answer is. Derby Day is my favourite racing day but it was usually accompanied by mediocre racing. Having the Eagle and Redzel Stakes was a good accompaniment. Big call but Pierata was the best effort yesterday for me.

However for many non race goers, there is no wow factor. The Everest and Melbourne spring carnival does. I was there for the first year of the championship and there was a good buzz but now that has faded too with crowds well off it’s peak. The spring carnival is the same at times but dwarfs Sydney crowds.

Racing NSW quite rightly expects a huge crowd with the Everest but I have not seen anything where they have expressed the wishes for the crowd for the Bondi and the Eagle. The provincial races would be close to full capacity I think.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: sobig on 2019-Nov-03, 01:45 PM
Rosehill crowd for yesterday was 20,756.

TV audiences: Derby on channel 10 234,000
                     Eagle on channel 7 255,000

                   
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-03, 02:16 PM
Rosehill crowd for yesterday was 20,756.

TV audiences: Derby on channel 10 234,000
                     Eagle on channel 7 255,000

                 

That is not a bad crowd for Sydney at all. Derby day was in the 80s but then again it is Melbourne.    :lol:  

Melbourne Cup crowd at Randwick will be much bigger though.

TV ratings are surprising but I wonder how many like me thought Derby Day was on 7. They are both crap coverages with more on fashion than horses.

The actual race coverage itself is good from all angles including a jockey.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-03, 03:23 PM
Rosehill crowd for yesterday was 20,756.

TV audiences: Derby on channel 10 234,000
                     Eagle on channel 7 255,000

                 

What I found interesting is that the Melbourne races weren't on the FTA racing.com channel.

Were they on the digital channel?

NSW Punters betting on Vic Races Derby Day - win pools approx

2018 $3,500,000
2019 $2,544,000

Decrease 27.3%

NSW Punters betting on Sydney races Derby Day - win pools approx

2018 $1,457,000
2019 $2,501,000

Increase 71.6%

Given that the jurisdiction "putting on the show" now gets a cut of the action from other states, this might put into focus the purpose of V'Landys trying to repatriate the punting dollars.

Some people are of the erroneous opinion that this is a Racing NSW "ego thing", especially Victorians.

It is all to do with money. It has always been about the money. Money makes the world go around.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: sobig on 2019-Nov-03, 04:14 PM
Melbourne races were on 529.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Antitab# on 2019-Nov-03, 04:19 PM
Not sure about that logic PP.

All jurisdictions have different fees but about 4% of wagering turnover goes back to the governing body.

Across the Golden Eagle  and the Redzel there was 8.5 million extra prize money on offer from the year prior.

That means they would need to grow turnover across all Wagering Service Providers by over $210 million.

My guess is they may have got 20 million growth, that a hole of over 7.5 million.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-03, 04:50 PM
Do any of the figures quoted include Corporates and TAB fixed odds?

Not sure what the real figures as fixed odds and corporate betting has decimated the Tab figures with most corporates now offering best of 3 totes.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Antitab# on 2019-Nov-03, 04:54 PM
The figures quoted are TAB win which is how I have estimated total turnover growth would be 20 million give or take.

20 million is in the vicinity of 800k revenue to the governing body
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-03, 05:11 PM
The figures quoted are TAB win which is how I have estimated total turnover growth would be 20 million give or take.

20 million is in the vicinity of 800k revenue to the governing body

So in other words, some of the new races will never pay for itself.

However will the extra sponsorship and crowds offset this?

That is the question otherwise it is an nightmare for Racing NSW in the long run.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Atreus on 2019-Nov-03, 07:16 PM
Progress is doing something for $1 million that used to cost $10 million. 

The Everest and Golden Eagle were good races but they were worthy of total prizemoney of only 1.5 million.  In the past races like the TJ Smith has had fields on a par with the Everest for much less prizemoney and much less promotional cost

The advertising bill for the Everest and the Golden Eagle would be huge and has to be added to the huge prizemoney cost

My guess is that Racing NSW will start selling racecourses soon just like Harness racing in NSW sold Harold Park
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: JWesleyHarding on 2019-Nov-03, 08:38 PM
It seems everyone is avoiding the elephant in the room.

The question that no one has asked.

Okay then I will take up the job...

Bubba.
Were you drinking when you fell?
Whatever the answer I'm sure all here  join with me in wishing you a speedy recovery.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-03, 08:58 PM
So in other words, some of the new races will never pay for itself.

However will the extra sponsorship and crowds offset this?

That is the question otherwise it is an nightmare for Racing NSW in the long run.

The majority of the money for the new races comes from the new "tax parity" policy of the NSW Government.

Up until recently, the NSW racing industry was giving back to the government far in excess of what any other state was.

Tax rates on racing bets in NSW will be brought into line with Victoria's to boost the industry's competitiveness and make NSW the premier racing state. ... The new racing tax scheme begins on 1 January 2016. It will involve a five-year step-down in the Government's take on bets to reach parity with Victoria in 2019-20.

https://www.justice.nsw.gov.au/Pages/media-news/media-releases/2015/tax-parity-make-nsw-premier-racing-state.aspx

Your rhetorical question that "the races will never pay for themselves" can be applied equally to Victoria or any other state. The exception being The Everest, The Magic Millions and the Inglis series of races.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-03, 09:00 PM
Not sure about that logic PP.

All jurisdictions have different fees but about 4% of wagering turnover goes back to the governing body.

Across the Golden Eagle  and the Redzel there was 8.5 million extra prize money on offer from the year prior.

That means they would need to grow turnover across all Wagering Service Providers by over $210 million.

My guess is they may have got 20 million growth, that a hole of over 7.5 million.

See tax parity post.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-03, 09:02 PM
It seems everyone is avoiding the elephant in the room.

The question that no one has asked.

Okay then I will take up the job...

Bubba.
Were you drinking when you fell?
Whatever the answer I'm sure all here  join with me in wishing you a speedy recovery.

Yes.

All the best for a speedy recovery Bubba.

I actually think Bubba fell over when he heard PVL suggesting that the date of the Melbourne Cup be moved.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-03, 09:05 PM
Melbourne races were on 529.

Mate I hope I'm not showing my ignorance, but what is 529? Sounds like an AM radio frequency down the left hand side of the dial.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: ratsack on 2019-Nov-03, 09:33 PM
Mate I hope I'm not showing my ignorance, but what is 529? Sounds like an AM radio frequency down the left hand side of the dial.
come on PP7 529 is the foxtell channel
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2019-Nov-04, 06:18 AM
JWH & PP7  thanks for your thoughts on my broken ribs.
A. I was walking downstairs, without the lights on and tripped and fell and I had not being drinking. Nothing like an old fool.  :lol:
B. Having broken ribs is not fun. I can take a limited amount of pain killers but sleeping at night is difficult. I now sleep in an armchair where I am restricted in my movement.
C. The doctor said it can take up to 6 weeks to heal, so I guess I will turn on the lights in the future when navigating stairs.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-04, 06:42 AM
JWH & PP7  thanks for your thoughts on my broken ribs.
A. I was walking downstairs, without the lights on and tripped and fell and I had not being drinking. Nothing like an old fool.   :lol:  
B. Having broken ribs is not fun. I can take a limited amount of pain killers but sleeping at night is difficult. I now sleep in an armchair where I am restricted in my movement.
C. The doctor said it can take up to 6 weeks to heal, so I guess I will turn on the lights in the future when navigating stairs.

Hope u get well. On bright side, you can spend more time in front of the tv for cup week.   :lol:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Nov-04, 07:53 AM
It seems everyone is avoiding the elephant in the room.

The question that no one has asked.

Okay then I will take up the job...

Bubba.
Were you drinking when you fell?
Whatever the answer I'm sure all here  join with me in wishing you a speedy recovery.

Yes i agree abd BUBBA, don't be an old fuddy duddy and refuse the endone

It will help
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-04, 08:05 AM
come on PP7 529 is the foxtell channel

Mate who uses the channel numbers on Foxtel any more   :lol:

Thank you for the clarification. I might punch those numbers in if I can remember how to do it.

I did check out the racing.com channel on Foxtel and the Melbourne races were definitely not on.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: sobig on 2019-Nov-04, 02:15 PM
They certainly were PP and I watched most of them there.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: JWesleyHarding on 2019-Nov-04, 03:17 PM
They were on 529 Foxtel.

PP is talking about FTA isn't he?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-04, 03:32 PM
They were on 529 Foxtel.

PP is talking about FTA isn't he?

Correct.

Just checked and it is Channel 078 in the Digital TV selection on my TV and definitely called racing.com

Didn't have the Melbourne races on.

EDIT: I wasn't aware that Channel 10 had the FTA rights and didn't think to check there.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: tontonan on 2019-Nov-04, 06:31 PM
I watched Derby Day all day on racing.com/C78.   It was definitely FTA in Victoria.   I switched back and forth to C10 to see how they were travelling.  Didn't bother with C7.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: tontonan on 2019-Nov-04, 06:39 PM
C78/racing.com will also be covering -

Flemington, Echuca and Morphettville on Tuesday from 10.34am
Flemington, Pakenham and Gawler on Thursday from 11.30am
and Flemington, Geelong, Morphettville & Sha Tin on Saturday from Noon

Maybe its a Foxtel thing.


Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-04, 07:04 PM
The landscape has changed a tad.

PP will be a very happy reading below.   :lol:

https://wwos.nine.com.au/horse-racing/cup-win-would-deliver-waller-triple-treat/e1656e0f-0d70-4513-abe8-40fca334c595
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-04, 08:49 PM
I watched Derby Day all day on racing.com/C78.   It was definitely FTA in Victoria.   I switched back and forth to C10 to see how they were travelling.  Didn't bother with C7.

My wife wanted to watch what we thought would have been the usual Channel 7 coverage so I tried Channel 7 (who were at Rosehill) then while the 2nd race was being run I tried Ch78 and it seemed to have the same coverage as Channel 7 in NSW. I think they were still showing Adelaide.

I said to her I'll put it on Sky1 but she just wanted to watch the fashions and all that and they had that on 78 so she was happy. I watched Sky1 up in the office.

Ironically they are saying that the Channel 7 coverage outrated the Channel 10 coverage and I reckon that is because a lot of people were expecting Channel 7 to have Melbourne on but these people (like my wife) aren't too fussed and are just happy to watch and listen to Bruce and co. As far as they are concerned the races could have been at Gulargambone and it wouldn't have mattered.

I never have any reason to watch Channel 10 so the advertising didn't reach me. Haven't watched Channel 10 since they ran Number 96 and reruns of Gilligan's Island.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-04, 09:46 PM
I went to the local tab tonight to place some bets for my family and in-laws. It was not even 9.30 and it was shut. In the old days, Cup eve was 10-10.30pm closure.

I blame it on Vlandys for making the Tab shut early. It is an Everest conspiracy.  :tin:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-04, 09:59 PM
I went to the local tab tonight to place some bets for my family and in-laws. It was not even 9.30 and it was shut. In the old days, Cup eve was 10-10.30pm closure.

I blame it on Vlandys for making the Tab shut early. It is an Everest conspiracy.  :tin:

  :lol:

When I go up to Port (which is quite often) I can get a bet on at 2 a.m. at the local pub - either the terminal or over the counter.

Very hard for TABs to be competitive with pubs and clubs and corporates, and at the same time be profitable these days. Used to be a licence to print money.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-04, 10:11 PM
   :lol:  

When I go up to Port (which is quite often) I can get a bet on at 2 a.m. at the local pub - either the terminal or over the counter.

Very hard for TABs to be competitive with pubs and clubs and corporates, and at the same time be profitable these days. Used to be a licence to print money.

Port is nice but south coast is my preference due to less crowds especially if you drive past Batemans etc.

Eden used to have more pubs from memory as last visit was 10 years ago. It was quiet and relaxing.  Merimbula, Tathra , Jervis Bay etc were nice too. Very peaceful drive and beaches everywhere where sometimes you don’t see people for a bit. Changed over last few years but still pleasant.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-04, 10:49 PM
Port is nice but south coast is my preference due to less crowds especially if you drive past Batemans etc.

Eden used to have more pubs from memory as last visit was 10 years ago. It was quiet and relaxing.  Merimbula, Tathra , Jervis Bay etc were nice too. Very peaceful drive and beaches everywhere where sometimes you don’t see people for a bit. Changed over last few years but still pleasant.

My elderly father still lives at home by himself in Port - that is why I am up there so often. The pub and the Westport Bowling Club are open until 3 a.m. to accommodate the large tourist element there - lots of international visitors - both older couples and backpackers. Very vibrant place these days. Lots of restaurants which seem to be always full.

Love Ulladulla and Bateman's Bay. Aforementioned father built a holiday house in Ulladulla back in the 60's with two mates and had many a nice time there.

I aspire to live in Forster but wife wants to stay close to the kids so I reckon the best chance I'll have of escaping Sydney will be if one of them moves up to Queensland.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-05, 05:24 PM
Heard on the radio that crowd at Randwick today for MC day was in excess of 14k. Very good for a weekday. Not much in promotions too otherwise they would have cracked 20k.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-11, 09:56 PM
The Hunter this weekend seems like a good race if some of the horses nominated run.

V’landys could be on a winner especially if they can attract the group or listed carnival horses that may go to an easier option than the West especially with $1m on offer with less travel for the horses.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Atreus on 2019-Nov-20, 05:40 PM
Perfect weather in Sydney today but only 51 runners for the Rosehill midweek meeting which is a bad sign for summer racing in Sydney town

Sydney has had a small field issue for as long as I can remember.  But clearly years and years of V'Landys raising betting taxes and raising prizemoney sky high has done nothing to solve the small field problems in Sydney racing

Waller has been the main beneficiary of the new big trillion dollar races this spring because he has most of the good horses.  He is allowed to control way too many of the good horses.  Stable limits need to come in as per Hong Kong if Sydney racing is to thrive.  The wealth and the equine talent needs to be spread around more
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-20, 08:19 PM

Waller has been the main beneficiary of the new big trillion dollar races this spring because he has most of the good horses.  He is allowed to control way too many of the good horses.  Stable limits need to come in as per Hong Kong if Sydney racing is to thrive.  The wealth and the equine talent needs to be spread around more

You are on the wrong thread Atreus.

The Waller conspiracy theorists reside on the Chris Waller thread

http://www.racehorsetalk.com.au/trainer/chris-waller/
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-20, 08:46 PM
Perfect weather in Sydney today but only 51 runners for the Rosehill midweek meeting which is a bad sign for summer racing in Sydney town

Sydney has had a small field issue for as long as I can remember.  But clearly years and years of V'Landys raising betting taxes and raising prizemoney sky high has done nothing to solve the small field problems in Sydney racing

Waller has been the main beneficiary of the new big trillion dollar races this spring because he has most of the good horses.  He is allowed to control way too many of the good horses.  Stable limits need to come in as per Hong Kong if Sydney racing is to thrive.  The wealth and the equine talent needs to be spread around more

Really interesting about the small fields. In Hawkesbury tomorrow , there are 72 runners listed while Moe has 102 runners. Hawkesbury already has 12 scratchings while Moe has 14. Scone running tomorrow has more than 120 listed with 12 scratchings.

Maybe instead of trying to invent new races to compete with the Spring Carnival, there should be more money in the lower end of the spectrum to help the battlers out.

The Everest being $10 million or $14 million does not make a difference. However $2000 extra per country or provincial race will mean better prizemoney for 2000 races instead of 1.

It may increase race fields too in the long run.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-20, 09:25 PM
I've given up trying to explain the prizemoney concept of The Everest to people like Jeunes and attempting to get them to understand how you cannot just take money off that race and spend it elsewhere.

It's like explaining to my 86 year old father how to use Netbank.

Anyone else want to have a crack?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-20, 09:43 PM
I've given up trying to explain the prizemoney concept of The Everest to people like Jeunes and attempting to get them to understand how you cannot just take money off that race and spend it elsewhere.

It's like explaining to my 86 year old father how to use Netbank.

Anyone else want to have a crack?

Sometimes, it is hard for me to understand take off means. You start a race with $10 million, then you give it extra and say now that is given, we will give it more in the future.

However if anyone says, don’t give anymore  Pete’s fans will take umbrage at it. It is going from $10million to $15 million in 2020 with rises since the first inception.

Break it up for me PP as I must be losing it on my calculator. The 12 slot holders pay $600k per slot. First year they contributed 72% of the prizemoney. Now  the prizemoney increase to $15 million in 2020 means they will now only contribute 48% of the prizemoney.








Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-22, 08:26 PM
Sometimes, it is hard for me to understand take off means. You start a race with $10 million, then you give it extra and say now that is given, we will give it more in the future.

However if anyone says, don’t give anymore  Pete’s fans will take umbrage at it. It is going from $10million to $15 million in 2020 with rises since the first inception.

Break it up for me PP as I must be losing it on my calculator. The 12 slot holders pay $600k per slot. First year they contributed 72% of the prizemoney. Now  the prizemoney increase to $15 million in 2020 means they will now only contribute 48% of the prizemoney.

I am still waiting for an explanation how a race that where slotholders paid 72% of a prize pool but now only pay 48% of the pool is fair when the prizemoney increase did not add value as the quality of sprinters were the same.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-22, 08:54 PM
I am still waiting for an explanation how a race that where slotholders paid 72% of a prize pool but now only pay 48% of the pool is fair when the prizemoney increase did not add value as the quality of sprinters were the same.

This is facile.

You could make that "value" argument about any number of races run around Australia but you hone in on The Everest.

Geez it must really grate you that this race has become the #2 race in Australia so quickly.

One could argue that the quality of the sprinters was better because Yes, Yes, Yes broke the track record beating the current TJ Smith titleholder who also broke his own track record.

The only people still whinging about the race are people who are living in the past and cannot accept that things change.

Move on.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-22, 09:01 PM
This is facile.

You could make that "value" argument about any number of races run around Australia but you hone in on The Everest.

Geez it must really grate you that this race has become the #2 race in Australia so quickly.

One could argue that the quality of the sprinters was better because Yes, Yes, Yes broke the track record beating the current TJ Smith titleholder who also broke his own track record.

The only people still whinging about the race are people who are living in the past and cannot accept that things change.

Move on.

C’mon Peter’s Pen, I have always supported. Read my posts but I don’t see the point why you would add an extra $5 million to the race when the quality of the sprinters would be the same.

Must really grate you Peter’s Pen that people can support a concept but still look at it objectively.

Yet again you duck the question on the value of the extra prizemoney and throw mud as usual as it could ask questions of your mate Peter’s judgement.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-22, 09:17 PM
C’mon Peter’s Pen, I have always supported. Read my posts but I don’t see the point why you would add an extra $5 million to the race when the quality of the sprinters would be the same.

Must really grate you Peter’s Pen that people can support a concept but still look at it objectively.

Yet again you duck the question on the value of the extra prizemoney and throw mud as usual as it could ask questions of your mate Peter’s judgement.

You are setting up a circular argument that I cannot win.

If I point out the added money going into the regional racing industry, as I have, in races like The Hunter and The Gong, the Country and Provincial Championships and The Kosciuszko, your "bestie" comes on here and froths that it is only for millionaires.

If I point out that there has been a quantum increase in prizemoney for country and provincial racing which has turned former part timers into professionals you will make no comment.

When I pointed out that the increase in prizemoney came from the tax parity issue being fixed and posted a link you and your bestie went mute.

You would have more credibility if your arguments extended outside of NSW but they don't do they.

The fact is it has never been a better time to own a racehorse in NSW and that comes down to the efforts of your worst enemy. That must really hurt.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-23, 05:49 AM
You are setting up a circular argument that I cannot win.

If I point out the added money going into the regional racing industry, as I have, in races like The Hunter and The Gong, the Country and Provincial Championships and The Kosciuszko, your "bestie" comes on here and froths that it is only for millionaires.

If I point out that there has been a quantum increase in prizemoney for country and provincial racing which has turned former part timers into professionals you will make no comment.

When I pointed out that the increase in prizemoney came from the tax parity issue being fixed and posted a link you and your bestie went mute.

You would have more credibility if your arguments extended outside of NSW but they don't do they.

The fact is it has never been a better time to own a racehorse in NSW and that comes down to the efforts of your worst enemy. That must really hurt.

I have always been a supporter of Pete’s method of throwing money back into racing.

I just don’t believe the Everest needs more money. We need it more in the country or provincial circuit. I have been an advocate of throwing more money at our current G1s to bring more interstate horses.

Randwick Guineas and Ranvet Stakes are prime examples with the Australian Guineas and Australian Cup attracting better fields. All Star mile horses too will not come to Sydney for awhile too. We need to also get some good quality WFA horses in the spring races too especially after Wink. The WFA ranks in Australia are very thin.

The Everest has guaranteed that we have the best sprinting field running in Sydney every year. This years field had the best group of runners in any race in Australia this year. I have said that previously and will still stand by it. The additional prizemoney is just a boost to the owners and nothing else.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-23, 07:02 AM

Randwick Guineas and Ranvet Stakes are prime examples with the Australian Guineas and Australian Cup attracting better fields.

Geez you have a knack of chucking in false premise statements that just don't stand up to scrutiny.

Randwick (previously Canterbury) Guineas vs Australian Guineas since 2000

Highlighted ones are my opinion of top class. I would have the Randwick Guineas ahead comfortably.

Year Randwick Guineas Australian Guineas
2019 The Autumn Sun (AUS) 2015 Mystic Journey (AUS) 2015
2018 Kementari (AUS) 2014 Grunt (NZ) 2014
2017 Inference (AUS) 2013 Hey Doc (AUS) 2013
2016 Le Romain (AUS) 2012 Palentino (AUS) 2012
2015 Hallowed Crown (AUS) 2011 Wandjina (AUS) 2011
2014 Dissident (AUS) 2010 Shamus Award (AUS) 2010
2013 Dundeel (NZ) 2009 Ferlax (NZ) 2009
2012 Mosheen (AUS) 2008 Mosheen (AUS) 2008
2011 Ilovethiscity (AUS) 2007 Shamrocker (NZ) 2007
2010 Shoot Out (AUS) 2006 Rock Classic (AUS) 2006
2009 Metal Bender (NZ) 2005 Heart Of Dreams (AUS) 2005
2008 Weekend Hussler (AUS) 2004 Light Fantastic (AUS) 2004
2007 Mentality (AUS) 2003 Miss Finland (AUS) 2003
2006 Hotel Grand (AUS) 2002 Apache Cat (AUS) 2002
2005 Jymcarew (AUS) 2001 Al Maher (AUS) 2001
2004 Niello (AUS) 2000 Reset (AUS) 2000
2003 Fine Society (AUS) 1999 Delago Brom (AUS) 1999
2002 Carnegie Express (NZ) 1998 Dash For Cash (AUS) 1998
2001 Universal Prince (AUS) 1997 Mr. Murphy (AUS) 1997

Both the Ranvet and the Australian Cup have seen better days.

Year Ranvet Australian Cup
2019 Avilius (GB) 2014 Harlem (GB) 2012
2018 Gailo Chop (FR) 2011 Harlem (GB) 2012
2017 Our Ivanhowe (GER) 2010 Humidor (NZ) 2012
2016 The United States (IRE) 2010 Preferment (NZ) 2011
2015 Contributer (IRE) 2010 Spillway (GB) 2010
2014 Silent Achiever (NZ) 2008 Fiorente (IRE) 2008
2013 Foreteller (GB) 2007 Super Cool (AUS) 2009
2012 Manighar (FR) 2006 Manighar (FR) 2006
2011 Zavite (NZ) 2002 Shocking (AUS) 2005
2010 Theseo (AUS) 2003 Zipping (AUS) 2001
2009 Theseo (AUS) 2003 Niconero (AUS) 2001
2008 Tuesday Joy (NZ) 2003 Sirmione (AUS) 2003
2007 Desert War (AUS) 2000 Pompeii Ruler (AUS) 2002
2006 Eremein (AUS) 2001 Roman Arch (AUS) 1998
2005 Grand Armee (AUS) 1998 Makybe Diva (GB) 1999
2004 Sound Action (AUS) 1999 Lonhro (AUS) 1998
2003 Republic Lass (AUS) 1998 Northerly (AUS) 1996
2002 Universal Prince (AUS) 1997 Old Comrade (AUS) 1997
2001 Tie The Knot (AUS) 1994 Northerly (AUS) 1996
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-23, 07:20 AM
Gee, PP again you are being selective and not reading the posts correctly as usual.

My comment was on better fields and not winners. Majority of the time, the fields in Sydney are smaller and less in the quality aspect. Australian Guineas and Australian Cup have attracted better overall fields and bigger fields for open racing fields.

The Ranvet over the years has an average field of 8-10 runners max. The quality is at the top but the depth is not there.

On a side note, Mosheen was the only winner of both according to the results. Dissident won more G1s than Le Romain. I would put Shamus Award up there too as he won the Cox Plate too. Carnegie Express should have won the triple crown if the jockey did not go too early in the Derby. Preferment was underrated compared to a couple. VRC Derby and a few other G1s too. Old Comrade beat Northerly too.

Interesting when you look at the Guineas races, how many of them did not go on to big race wins as 4yo or up.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-23, 07:20 AM

Randwick Guineas and Ranvet Stakes are prime examples with the Australian Guineas and Australian Cup attracting better fields.

In fact when you think about it the VRC has almost sacrificed the Australian Cup for the All Star Mile.

Trainers of good horses aimed at the ASM are not going to be having their lead up race over 2000m then dropping them back to 1600m.

The Australian Cup is likely to be populated with stayers going to Sydney for the Tancred and Sydney Cup.

ASM horses are more likely to go on to Sydney for the Doncaster and the QE2.

The quality of the Australian up can only suffer with the advent of the All Star Mile.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-23, 07:24 AM
Gee, PP again you are being selective and not reading the posts correctly as usual.

My comment was on better fields and not winners. Majority of the time, the fields in Sydney are smaller and less in the quality aspect. Australian Guineas and Australian Cup have attracted better overall fields and bigger fields for open racing fields.

The Ranvet over the years has an average field of 8-10 runners max. The quality is at the top but the depth is not there.

On a side note, Mosheen was the only winner of both according to the results. Dissident won more G1s than Le Romain. I would put Shamus Award up there too as he won the Cox Plate too. Carnegie Express should have won the triple crown if the jockey did not go too early in the Derby. Preferment was underrated compared to a couple. VRC Derby and a few other G1s too. Old Comrade beat Northerly too.

Interesting when you look at the Guineas races, how many of them did not go on to big race wins as 4yo or up.

Thank you Peter Mair.

Totally disagree. Field size has nothing to do with quality.

Have you not been watching Winx?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-23, 07:38 AM
Thank you Peter Mair.

Totally disagree. Field size has nothing to do with quality.

Have you not been watching Winx?

You must like the Peters.   :lol:

I actually alluded to Winx in an earlier post and what her retirement means as the wfa stars are weak.

Thus in your opinion if you have a very good horse in a field of 6-8 in a WFA G1 race racing against some handicappers, it is ok. I rather have 5-6 good horses with some handicappers in a 12 horse field as a better spectacle to watch.

PP, just admit quality of horses is not there. The bigger prizemoney will attract the bigger fields.

Also how many of the All Star mike this year would have run in the Cup if the mile was not there. Hartnell jumps out but rest maybe not or a couple at the most. Field below.

https://www.racenet.com.au/all-star-mile
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-23, 07:44 AM
The 2019 Australian Cup was won by Harlem beating 7yo mare Shillelagh and Trap For Fools who had won one G1 under the methods of Darren Weir.

The 2019 Ranvet was won by Avilius beating the UK G1 placed He's Eminent and dual NZ Group 1 winner Danzdanzdance

The 3 placegetters in the 2018 Australian Cup all ran in the Ranvet - so the "depth" was around the same.

The 2017 Australian Cup was a good quality race won by Humidor (under the methods of Weir) beating Jameka and both horses went to Sydney to run the quinella in reverse in the Tancred. In fact the Australian Cup trifecta ran the trifecta in the Tancred that year.

The Ranvet that year was run on a Heavy 10 with Our Ivanhowe (Germany G1 plus Doomben Cup) beating multi G1 winner Hartnell

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-23, 07:52 AM

Also how many of the All Star mike this year would have run in the Cup if the mile was not there. Hartnell jumps out but rest maybe not or a couple at the most. Field below.


But aren't you making my point? If my Aunty had balls......

The Australian Cup vs. The Ranvet I have it 1-1 with 1 draw over the past 3 years.

With the advent of the All Star Mile, trainers are likely to chase $5m ASM then $3m Doncaster or $4m QE2.

The $1.5m Australian Cup quality is going to get worse, not better with the ASM now being the major Melbourne autumn race.

Getting back on context, your definitive statement that the "Randwick Guineas and Ranvet Stakes are prime examples with the Australian Guineas and Australian Cup attracting better fields" does not measure up to scrutiny.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-23, 08:35 AM
But aren't you making my point? If my Aunty had balls......

The Australian Cup vs. The Ranvet I have it 1-1 with 1 draw over the past 3 years.

With the advent of the All Star Mile, trainers are likely to chase $5m ASM then $3m Doncaster or $4m QE2.

The $1.5m Australian Cup quality is going to get worse, not better with the ASM now being the major Melbourne autumn race.

Getting back on context, your definitive statement that the "Randwick Guineas and Ranvet Stakes are prime examples with the Australian Guineas and Australian Cup attracting better fields" does not measure up to scrutiny.

I disagree. They have better fields and let’s not get in arguments about winners because luck plays a big part in races too.

If I use a facetious argument that the prizemoney of the races would mean that the Randwick Guineas and Ranvet Stakes will attract an inferior field than in Melbourne for the same period, you would be jumping up and down.

But when I bring the same point about the Everest, you go off on a ridiculous tangent and not even answer if a $15 race will attract a better field than $10m.

Sydney needs a boost in the autumn with more prizemoney. The Ranvet Stakes has a prizemoney of $700k. The Hunter and the Gong has a prizemoney of $1m each.  Where is the money better spent? Surely a $500k prize for the Hunter and Gong with a bonus would be better and make the Ranvet a $1m race. That is better programming and more chance of having the Australian Cup horses backing up or running in the a Ranvet then the Tancred and / or QE. What a series especially chuck in a bonus  for horses that competed in each.

A $3m bonus for horses that wins all the big WFA races in Sydney instead of giving it to the Everest. This willl invigorate the WFA Racing in the Autumn in Sydney.

I would be open to even throwing a $3m bonus if a horse can win the triple crown in Sydney.

What an end to the Championship if horses were alive going to the last leg. Not chucking another $5m to a race that already has captivated the interest of everyone. Sydney is a leader when it comes to racing in most areas but we can always look at new ways of spreading it.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-23, 03:10 PM
I disagree. They have better fields and let’s not get in arguments about winners because luck plays a big part in races too.

If I use a facetious argument that the prizemoney of the races would mean that the Randwick Guineas and Ranvet Stakes will attract an inferior field than in Melbourne for the same period, you would be jumping up and down.

But when I bring the same point about the Everest, you go off on a ridiculous tangent and not even answer if a $15 race will attract a better field than $10m.

Sydney needs a boost in the autumn with more prizemoney. The Ranvet Stakes has a prizemoney of $700k. The Hunter and the Gong has a prizemoney of $1m each.  Where is the money better spent? Surely a $500k prize for the Hunter and Gong with a bonus would be better and make the Ranvet a $1m race. That is better programming and more chance of having the Australian Cup horses backing up or running in the a Ranvet then the Tancred and / or QE. What a series especially chuck in a bonus  for horses that competed in each.

A $3m bonus for horses that wins all the big WFA races in Sydney instead of giving it to the Everest. This willl invigorate the WFA Racing in the Autumn in Sydney.

I would be open to even throwing a $3m bonus if a horse can win the triple crown in Sydney.

What an end to the Championship if horses were alive going to the last leg. Not chucking another $5m to a race that already has captivated the interest of everyone. Sydney is a leader when it comes to racing in most areas but we can always look at new ways of spreading it.

Rambling again.

Sydney needs a boost in the autumn with more prizemoney.

Are you serious????

A $3m bonus for horses that wins all the big WFA races in Sydney instead of giving it to the Everest. This willl invigorate the WFA Racing in the Autumn in Sydney.

What an idiotic suggestion. So Winx getting an extra $3 million 4 years running would have helped would it? How? The grounds were full. National interest was sky high. What on earth are you rambling on about?

I would be open to even throwing a $3m bonus if a horse can win the triple crown in Sydney.

Bonuses for horse winning triple crowns. How on earth does that improve racing?

I'm finished replying to you. Too much rot.  :wacko:



Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-23, 03:37 PM
Rambling again.

Sydney needs a boost in the autumn with more prizemoney.

Are you serious????

A $3m bonus for horses that wins all the big WFA races in Sydney instead of giving it to the Everest. This willl invigorate the WFA Racing in the Autumn in Sydney.

What an idiotic suggestion. So Winx getting an extra $3 million 4 years running would have helped would it? How? The grounds were full. National interest was sky high. What on earth are you rambling on about?

I would be open to even throwing a $3m bonus if a horse can win the triple crown in Sydney.

Bonuses for horse winning triple crowns. How on earth does that improve racing?

I'm finished replying to you. Too much rot.  :wacko:

So giving another $5 Million to the Everest is better.

By the way are you that chummy with Peter and want to defend him so much that you forgot that Winx never won the Ranvet or Tancred!!!

Another moronic defence of Peter.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2019-Nov-23, 06:06 PM
The fact is it has never been a better time to own a racehorse in NSW and that comes down to the efforts of your worst enemy. That must really hurt.
Fact?

In fact that alleged fact is something that for me is a palpable Lay.

Some owners like Les Samba and Ron Medich were parvenus presumably hoping this will help them gain acceptance from the old money descended from convicts.

But this pesky wastage issue has thrown a spanner into the works.

Others became owners in the hope of using their insider status to mount betting coups.

Here V'landys can take the lion's share of credit for utterly destroying that ambition.

Once owners who could not get on with bookmakers could instead bet with the Tote.

But no more, as PVL fiddles while the Tote burns up.

How stupid would anybody be to consider becoming an owner!




Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-24, 08:09 AM
Fact?

In fact that alleged fact is something that for me is a palpable Lay.

Some owners like Les Samba and Ron Medich were parvenus presumably hoping this will help them gain acceptance from the old money descended from convicts.

But this pesky wastage issue has thrown a spanner into the works.

Others became owners in the hope of using their insider status to mount betting coups.

Here V'landys can take the lion's share of credit for utterly destroying that ambition.

Once owners who could not get on with bookmakers could instead bet with the Tote.

But no more, as PVL fiddles while the Tote burns up.

How stupid would anybody be to consider becoming an owner!

About half as stupid for anyone who reads this forum for intelligent, clear and concise comment.

You are rambling again jfc. You are reading too much of Jeunes postings.

In fact a song comes to mind by the great man hisself



Ramble on
Ramble on
When you're ramblin'
Days are gone
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-24, 08:37 AM
This is what PP plays each night in front of Peter’s photo.   :lol:   :lol:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oofSnsGkops
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2019-Nov-24, 09:13 AM
About half as stupid for anyone who reads this forum for intelligent, clear and concise comment.

You are rambling again jfc. You are reading too much of Jeunes postings.

You resorted to such a desperate response because you were unable to find any rational way of challenging my points.

Here's another development affecting potential owners.

The growing global trend these days is for wealthier families to buy or sponsors sports teams rather than horses. Business hospitality is far more effective because most contacts would obviously prefer attending a catered sports match rather than waste a boring day at the races.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-24, 12:32 PM

The growing global trend these days is for wealthier families to buy or sponsors sports teams rather than horses. Business hospitality is far more effective because most contacts would obviously prefer attending a catered sports match rather than waste a boring day at the races.

What arrant nonsense.

"Growing global trend", "wealthier families" (whatever the hell that means).

You just made that up.

I would suggest "wealthier families" that can afford to buy sporting teams use their spare change to buy racehorses.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Atreus on 2019-Nov-24, 05:28 PM
So the Gong goes to Waller as well.  Another G2 or G3 horse winning a grossly inflated prize vs the betting turnover generated by the race itself

Racing NSW have serious problems now with the Waller juggernaut

So far in Sydney this season there has been $60.4 million paid out as prizemoney.  Waller trained runners have won $19.9 million of that prizemoney so almost one third.  There have been 262 trainers with a runner in Sydney so the average trainer would expect their runners to win 230K in stakes.  So Waller is performing 86.5 times better than average.  Waller is allowed to control too many good horses as there is no way he is an 86.5 times better horse trainer than the average trainer

If we look at runners there have been 2706 runners amongst the 262 trainers so on average 10.3 runners per trainer.  Waller has had 402 runners so 39 times the average trainer.  So most of Waller's dominance comes from sheer weight of numbers.  He is allowed to train too many horses in other words

The fact is no trainer can truly train a stable of over 100 runners.  Once a stable gets beyond 100 runners then it becomes a network of subtrainers training many of the runners.  A punter does not know who is really training each horse.  It is a tremendous advantage for a Waller, Weir or Kris Lees to have control of 400 or more good horses as it means the other trainers have not got those good horses.  You can then place your runners in various ways under the handicapping system to advantage

Racing NSW needs to bring in stable limits as per Hong Kong so that there is a fairer distribution of the equine talent amongst all trainers.  Allowing a small number of trainers to lock up all the equine talent is slowly but surely killing the game
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-24, 06:48 PM

Racing NSW needs to bring in stable limits as per Hong Kong so that there is a fairer distribution of the equine talent amongst all trainers.  Allowing a small number of trainers to lock up all the equine talent is slowly but surely killing the game

So you have a model where Racing NSW brings in limits - you haven't mentioned other states (here we go again).

So what about Waller's Melbourne stable?

Did it occur to you that Waller might just move to Melbourne?

Or let me guess. You don't care as long as you have said your anti Racing NSW piece and moved on.  :nowink:

FFS. Hong Kong racing.

Yeah we can all go out to the races and watch geldings having their 50th start in a Class 2 and then go home and riot.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-24, 06:56 PM
Interesting part about Waller’s success is he has gone to a new level in recent years with Winx and others.

Reminds me of the late 80s when Cummings had Beau Zam, Campaign King, Sky Chase and his other G1 winners in Omnicorp, Round The World, Broad Reach etc

Freedman dominated for a couple of years in the 90s with Super Impose, Naturalism, Subzero, Mannerism, Schillachi etc.

Interestingly some of his most recent G1 or big race winners were given to him after Weir got suspended or WA horses coming to NSW. I am talking of Nature Strip, Yes Yes Yes, Ken’s Dream and WA horse Come Play With Me. 4 out of his 6 group 1 wins this season were from horses that he took over. Not putting him down in anyway for that as he has improve them especially Nature Strip.

My question is in a few years time, what will Waller’s success rate looks like. Unlike Cummings, TJ, Hayes and Freedman he is yet to win a MC, CC and a Golden Slipper.

His Derby success is also not as great as the others but he is a better trainer according to the numbers for 1200-2000m as a proportion of his G1 wins.

I think he is a great trainer and one day he may surpass TJ’s record of G1 wins if he keeps up his strike rate. Bart was never a quantity trainer like TJ and Waller’s dominance is similar to TJ at his peak.

Racing NSW will like Waller winning races because other than Gai and him, most non racing people would not have heard of others in Sydney except for the Cummings surname. He is marketable and does good interviews too. To be fair to Waller, he won the two big ones this season and any trainer who does the same will have a high percentage of the prizemoney too.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2019-Nov-26, 10:44 AM

The fact is it has never been a better time to own a racehorse in NSW and that comes down to the efforts of your worst enemy. That must really hurt.

RWW's reflections apply to a number of topics here, but looks like he is another who does not concur with PP7's deranged claim.


http://www.theoptimist.site/robbie-waterhouse-reflects-on-racings-problems/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=socialnetwork
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-26, 12:02 PM
Interesting article from Robbie.

The prizemoney and ownership angle is is good sign of our times. Majority of the single ownership has waned over the years with old money dying out or spread to family members who have no interest in racing.

Some of the new money buy horses but interest wanes. Even the sheiks don’t see it as before and they run it more like a sideshow.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Antitab# on 2019-Nov-26, 06:43 PM
Robbie is right.

Everybody with any idea concurs that Racing funding is on a precipice.

Never been a more important time than the next two years. Another couple of mistakes by administrators and it will all collapse.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-27, 07:58 AM
RWW's reflections apply to a number of topics here, but looks like he is another who does not concur with PP7's deranged claim.


http://www.theoptimist.site/robbie-waterhouse-reflects-on-racings-problems/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=socialnetwork

There is nothing in that link to dispute my claim about horse ownership.

Like some of the claims - really???

“A punter who bets with me came and said he had lost $6.5 million for the year, and had been losing every year. He said he was betting with eight different agencies but they had all sacked him. The trouble was that he was only losing at the rate of four percent, and the corporates still couldn’t make it work."

So he claims that "a punter who came to him and said" he loses $6.5 million a year and that the $6.5 million represents 4% of turnover.

So that punter is turning over $162.5 million per year.

Yep. That looks like a typical punter to me. We should all hang our hats on that.

I know turnover is dropping. But my statement on racehorse ownership is factually true at this time. You guys should get out of your rooms once in a while to get some sun. Go visit the upcoming MM's sale and have a look at that side of the industry.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Nov-27, 09:44 AM
If people click on the races and horses, it will show you a list of owners etc. Most of them are multiple owners or studs or syndicates etc.

https://www.racenet.com.au/racing-form-guide/warwick-farm-20191127/all-races

Cannot see singular owners but maybe a tad hard as room is still dark.  :chin:

There are more and more multiple owners. I still remember the White, Tristan Antico, Dato Chin Nam, Inghams as more private owners but not much of them. Racing ownership seems more spread these days.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Atreus on 2019-Nov-27, 06:32 PM
Racing in Australia is done.  Falling betting turnover should bring about reform but it won't as they have the lazy option of selling racecourses open to them to kick the can down the road.  Selling Canterbury will pay for The Everest and all the new million dollar races for years to come.  And by the time the money runs out nobody will remember that reform was ever needed

The future of Aussie gallops is the same as the Aussie trots = zombie racing

As for the claim that it has never been a better time to be a owner I can't agree

In 2004 Racing NSW put owners' losses at $100 to $150 million = "Independent studies have indicated that it costs Owners in NSW $200 – $250 million per year to have their horse educated, trained, agisted, vetted, transported, etc, yet only received $91 million net in prizemoney and rebates.  (Prizemoney paid to Owners after the 15% deduction for Trainer and Jockey commission). Owners are subsidizing the Industry by $100 – $150 million"

https://www.racingnsw.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Strategic_plan_2004.pdf

In March 2017 V'Landys tells us that owners' losses have ballooned out to over $200 million = "Despite a number of strategies implemented by Racing NSW, the returns to owners, in the form of prizemoney and bonuses, still represents less than 50% of the cost of training and racing horses in NSW (training, spelling, veterinary and other costs). NSW racehorse owners as a group absorb annual losses in excess of $200 million, not including the cost of buying and breeding the horses.  This creates a downward spiral with insufficient prizemoney (owners' returns) producing larger owner losses, reducing the number and quality of horses racing and hence wagering turnover.  This reduces revenue to the NSW thoroughbred racing industry and so further reduces prizemoney and racehorse participation."

http://www.competitiontribunal.gov.au/documents/act2017/Statement%20of%20Peter%20V%27landys.pdf

So all the increases in betting taxes from 2004 to 2017 and corresponding increases in prizemoney only saw the losses of racehorse owners increase.  The new betting taxes from 2017 to 2019 and the increases in prizemoney will only bring about the same result = even bigger losses for owners in the long run.  The biggest winners from the increased betting taxes and increased prizemoney are not the owners but the big studs who sell the horses to the owners
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Antitab# on 2019-Nov-27, 09:14 PM
Sime really smart racing savvy guys on this panel.

Whilst they are referring primarily to Victoria,the issues apply equally to all States.

https://www.racing.com/videos/2019-11-26/after-the-last--the-agenda--wagering--261119
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-28, 06:58 AM
Savvy is not a word that should apply to  Mike Symons.

It's interesting that he is introduced as former chairman on the MRC and professional punter........most people would recognise him through his role at Aquanita.

There would be many, many reasons why people give up the punt and the goings on at Aquanita would be one of them......absolute cheating, which means punters are being ripped off!

Racing lets itself down badly by promoting people like Mike Symons.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-28, 07:33 AM
Savvy is not a word that should apply to  Mike Symons.

It's interesting that he is introduced as former chairman on the MRC and professional punter........most people would recognise him through his role at Aquanita.

There would be many, many reasons why people give up the punt and the goings on at Aquanita would be one of them......absolute cheating, which means punters are being ripped off!

Racing lets itself down badly by promoting people like Mike Symons.

How's the way he says that the spike in betting turnover is due to racing.com!!

And then he goes on to say the reason is that Sky reaches only 24% of the population compared to 98% for FTA.

Can someone quote me the ratings for racing.com? Last time I looked you cannot because they hide it from the public - we can only assume the reason being that it is so hideously low they don't want advertisers to see it.

https://oztam.com.au//documents/2019/OzTAM-20191110-A1MetTTVShrCons.pdf

He briefly mentions the real reason for the spike - competition among Corporates & TAB.

Talk about ingratiating yourself with the hosts   :lol:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2019-Nov-28, 08:19 AM
From a profitable punting perspective racing is rapidly spiraling downhill. I, like a lot of my racing acquaintances, have dropped off betting on racing, let alone attending meetings. Outside of the Spring carnival , at least in Melbourne, to go to the track has little to no appeal as it did in the past. Back in the days when we attended the betting ring was the focus of our attention, watching the bookies, following the betting movements added to the appeal of being on track, now with the gradual demise of the on-track bookie who would want to go on track as with the click of the mouse on my home computer I can gain access to all the odds .
I started punting full time in 1970 and over those intervening years I have seen the advantage of attending on track slowly but surely dissipate. Sure in those early years the off track punter was "food for the sideboard " for those on course who were able to exploit the mug money bet off course ( eg off track betting closed 10 minutes before the jump, it was illegal to broadcast on-track odds to off track punters etc ), however as those on-track advantages have been eaten away so has racing fallen away.

Today most millenniums would rather bet on their phones on an NBA game than the first at Caulfield.

As far as profitability in horse ownership I do not think much has really change, as a group, owners have never made a profit in horse ownership.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-28, 08:37 AM
Just re-posting the link to "Tax Parity" for those of you who pretend it doesn't exist   :lol:

https://www.justice.nsw.gov.au/Pages/media-news/media-releases/2015/tax-parity-make-nsw-premier-racing-state.aspx

This is the source of the latest round of prizemoney increases in NSW. Not wagering.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-28, 11:02 AM
How's the way he says that the spike in betting turnover is due to racing.com!!

And then he goes on to say the reason is that Sky reaches only 24% of the population compared to 98% for FTA.

Can someone quote me the ratings for racing.com? Last time I looked you cannot because they hide it from the public - we can only assume the reason being that it is so hideously low they don't want advertisers to see it.

https://oztam.com.au//documents/2019/OzTAM-20191110-A1MetTTVShrCons.pdf

He briefly mentions the real reason for the spike - competition among Corporates & TAB.

Talk about ingratiating yourself with the hosts    :lol:
2KSKY dropped out of radio ratings in 2003......the only advertisers they had were the TAB, a couple of loan sharks, an erectile dysfunction company and Dynamic Syndications.  :lol:  

Mike Symons is employed by Racing.com.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: sobig on 2019-Nov-28, 02:18 PM
While its ratings are very low sky sports radio in Sydney is included in all ratings reports.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-28, 02:20 PM
2KSKY dropped out of radio ratings in 2003......the only advertisers they had were the TAB, a couple of loan sharks, an erectile dysfunction company and Dynamic Syndications.  :lol:  

Mike Symons is employed by Racing.com.

We can actually test Mike Symon's theory about racing.com being the reason for the spike in betting.

There should be a similar rise in turnover on South Australian racing when their racing product moved to racing.com.

In fact it should be even more because their digital product is still available on tab.com.au for those of us who like to be able to access replays via that web site.

Without looking I'm going to confidently say that there has been no similar increase in betting on SA racing.

In fact the main players in SA racing look like they cannot get out quick enough and move interstate - principally Victoria.



The spike in turnover was a false economy caused by the competition between Corporate bookmakers and TAB.

As I was saying at the time, "enjoy it while it lasts".

What we are seeing is a fallback to the original projections before the introduction of Corporate bookmakers to the market.

As is often the case in modern society, alarmists and alarmism get more copy than they deserve.

It is not the end of the earth. Peter V'Landys is not some sort of "Lex Luthor" character out to destroy racing.

Corporate bookmakers have only their collective selves to blame for the drop in turnover.

The attempt to blame others is bordering on the pathetic. Reminds me of the days post Racefields High Court decision where they were claiming victory in spite of having their arses handed to them.



And the attempts to discredit Racing NSW via "unsustainable" prizemoney increases when in fact the increases come from Tax Parity - what can I say.

Where were these critics when the Victorian TAB was set up with an interest in poker machines given to them as "compensation"? Other states were given no such golden goose. Where were the people complaining about "unsustainable prizemoney increases" - as I was at the time - when Victoria was racing ahead of the rest of Australia and gloating about it?

People have very short, selective memories when it comes to the history of prizemoney increases in Australian racing.

Now that that goose is cooked and the worm has turned we get all this bitch moaning about races like The Everest.

RVL now faces a cashed up interstate competitor and must fund their own prizemoney increases out of their own pocket to keep up.

At the same time they must fund their own TV station which we all know from TVN days is not cheap. The commercial relationship they had with Channel 7 was never disclosed but the fact that the Melbourne Cup carnival was switched to Channel 10 (another fantastic decision) suggests that they might fully fund it.

They had the option of getting paid for the broadcast rights by TAB or going it alone. In retrospect I wonder how that decision looks now?

In fact some of the stupid and wasteful "pro corporate" decisions taken by the egos on the board of RVL when the rivers of gold flowed led to the Minister effectively sacking the entire board.



My predictions?

I'd be very surprised if racing.com isn't owned by the TAB within 5 years.

There will be (at most) two corporates plus TAB.

Because of the new wagering model, the larger racing states of NSW and Victoria will grow at the expense of other states - been saying that for a while for anyone who cares to listen. From the perspective of an Australian Racing advocate, that is the big issue facing our collective Racing industry. I have been expressing concern for the health of the Queensland racing industry for some time on this forum citing this very reason. The corporates entering the market have facilitated this two state model.

The issue is not who has the bigger dick - NSW or Victoria. Not Peter V'Landys putting on a set of horns and trying to destroy Victoria. And I do not care for the whinging and whining of big punters who get rebates and didn't have to do the form guide study the rest of us do to make a buck. Nor do I care for their bookmaking buddies with their fanciful stories about "regular" punters turning over $162 million in a year making out they are the norm.

My advice? Suck it up or f. off.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-28, 02:21 PM
2KSKY dropped out of radio ratings in 2003......

Where did you get that from?

They were 2KY, then became something else - Racing Radio I think it is now known as.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-28, 02:33 PM
Where did you get that from?

They were 2KY, then became something else - Racing Radio I think it is now known as.
https://www.radioinfo.com.au/news/2sm-pulls-out-sydney-ratings

Please read the whole thing!

Don't pay them any attention anymore, so apologies if I missed their re-entry.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-28, 04:10 PM
https://www.radioinfo.com.au/news/2sm-pulls-out-sydney-ratings

Please read the whole thing!

Don't pay them any attention anymore, so apologies if I missed their re-entry.

So your googling turned up a document that is 16 years old with outdated information.

I couldn't manage that if I tried so well done.

Took me about 2 seconds to locate the latest ratings so not sure how you could have "missed their re-entry" and posted a 16 year old document instead.

https://mumbrella.com.au/sydney-radio-ratings-alan-jones-holds-onto-breakfast-crown-despite-controversy-600578
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-28, 04:52 PM
So your googling turned up a document that is 16 years old with outdated information.

I couldn't manage that if I tried so well done.

Took me about 2 seconds to locate the latest ratings so not sure how you could have "missed their re-entry" and posted a 16 year old document instead.

https://mumbrella.com.au/sydney-radio-ratings-alan-jones-holds-onto-breakfast-crown-despite-controversy-600578
Is this your gotcha moment?  :lol:   :lol:   :lol:

All I remember way back then was 2KSKY didn't accept what the ratings were telling them, so they opted out.

Like I said I don't pay them any attention anymore and couldn't care less......more relevant would be.......when and why they came back?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Nov-29, 06:18 AM
I listen to them every day😟
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2019-Nov-29, 09:38 AM
Came across these programs on YouTube.


The first was recorded in 1997 . Do John Kennedy & Sean Bartholomew still bet at the track ?

In the second you can see Peter Vlandy's aggressive , confrontational style even back in those days when he was a much younger CEO at Harold Park, which since then has been sold off for housing development.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq2gEAqWcfY




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZgRJekh2Cs
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2019-Nov-29, 10:16 AM
I don't know how much of any of this disconcerting material is true.

Last time I heard Kennedy's son-in-law was a police officer

https://citytattsinformationdesk.wordpress.com/?s=john+kennedy

https://www.punters.com.au/forum/horse-racing/biggest-punter-sean-bartholomew-has-been-very-quiet-is-her-broke-_112518/

https://www.realestate.com.au/news/punter-sean-bartholomew-sells-in-vaucluse/

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Nov-30, 05:02 AM
P V'Landys was looking a real action hero until Christian Cullen rained on the parade.

Such a consistent theme around racing........even when things are going well, there is always a scandal on the doorstep.

So well named Christian Cullen because both he and the rugby player were fantastic movers.

It was hard to miss the cameo of the Jones' boy........I didn't know Alan was into the trots.
He was well known for keeping company with "fine young men" and everybody looked a lot younger then.

With the self proclamation of "Greek God" by PVL.......I'm glad I wasn't in the building when those world's met. :what:

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Dec-03, 08:57 PM
Heard that the ATC had their Christmas party at Luna Park last nite. Not sure if true or not but a damn good place to have it if true.

I attended a party there years ago as a guest of my mate. Nice view especially after dark.

Only reason I bring up the party is that the NRL execs are hoping V’landys is in a festive mood as he has to decide on a $1m bonus to be shared amongst them. Clubs are unhappy with the figure while the execs will be unhappy if not the full figure. Feel sorry for him as he is in a no win situation. Another inherited issue to deal with.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Dec-04, 06:19 AM
“The Deck”, the restaurant at Luna Park, is very good. A great Sunday arvo lunch leading into dinner  :lol:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Dec-04, 07:10 AM
“The Deck”, the restaurant at Luna Park, is very good. A great Sunday arvo lunch leading into dinner   :lol:  

Heard it was the Palais as some other company had the big one.

Still a great venue.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Dec-08, 08:20 PM
British mate sent below to me. Good to see Sydney racing getting publicity in Britain. It may attract more visitors to Sydney racing without the advertising costs.   :lol:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/10502668/mass-brawl-erupts-horseracing-australia/
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Dec-08, 08:43 PM
British mate sent below to me. Good to see Sydney racing getting publicity in Britain. It may attract more visitors to Sydney racing without the advertising costs.     :lol:  

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/10502668/mass-brawl-erupts-horseracing-australia/

Apologies for posting this at Tontonan beat me to it.

He is very right too in why no local Press coverage of this. I did see a Max Presnell article somewhere on this.

This is one of the many reasons why Sydney racing after second last is fraught with danger at times.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: sobig on 2019-Dec-08, 08:59 PM
As mentioned on the other thread the UK report credits the tele.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Dec-08, 09:07 PM
Pretty sure I saw it on Twitter last night was a link to the Telegraph
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Dec-08, 09:13 PM


Racing is secretly funded -- and 'free money' is always in high demand


................ it is a political thing ......... shifting city-money to rural-racing electorates............. confused and hidden by 'gifting' racing tax takes to state racing administrators with no control by parliaments.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Dec-09, 06:25 AM
I saw the Tele article today. I had some fun with my mate and sent him some British racing fights too.

Call me old but I just don’t understand why you goto the races in your finest and have fights with a severe security and police presence in recent years.

Carnival times at Sydney or Melbourne has one of the largest police presence in any sports.

Alcohol does play a part but unlike most sports, you usually don’t dress up so it is ridiculous. More and more, I see the fairer sex involved.

I cannot blame any administrators for people’s stupidity especially as alcohol prices are so high at the races.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Dec-09, 06:37 AM
You only need to look at the bloke who is in the thick of it so see the answer as to what sort of low life gets involved in this stuff
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2019-Dec-09, 08:30 AM
To think, someone had given that bunch of roses to that damsel and she used them in that manner, A bunch of red roses could have cost $ 15, what a waste.  :biggrin:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: arthur on 2019-Dec-09, 10:29 AM
A bunch of red roses could have cost $ 15, what a waste.   :biggrin:

Been a long time since you've bought flowers . . .  :whistle:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: JWesleyHarding on 2019-Dec-09, 10:43 AM
Gunna post the same but then thought that might have been regarded as rude. :shutup:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: arthur on 2019-Dec-09, 11:21 AM
Casting nasturtiums could be regarded as rudeness  :chin:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Dec-09, 12:29 PM
To think, someone had given that bunch of roses to that damsel and she used them in that manner, A bunch of red roses could have cost $ 15, what a waste.   :biggrin:

Maybe for one. Costs a lot more than at the track too. I wonder if the turf clubs get a cut out of it as I seen it in Melbourne too..

At least it’s was real and not plastic.  :lol:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: arthur on 2019-Dec-09, 01:02 PM
My considered opinion is that she actually won the bouquet in the "Fashions in the Field" competition, held earlier in the day . .  :wavecry:

She just seems to have that 'je ne sais quoi' about her
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Dec-09, 01:14 PM
My considered opinion is that she actually won the bouquet in the "Fashions in the Field" competition, held earlier in the day . .  :wavecry:

She just seems to have that 'je ne sais quoi' about her

I thought the fashion stuff ceases during non carnival meetings.

Being roses and usually it will have thorns unless pruned, it will scratch your face and eyes. If that was an umbrella that would have done some damage.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Dec-09, 01:28 PM
Partial extract from SMH article today. Vlandys has defied turnover issues.

Spring becoming big business as Sydney bucks national trends

Chris Roots

By Chris Roots

 December 8, 2019 — 3.49pm

The success of the extended spring carnival has Sydney racing defying national trends in betting, crowds and corporate hospitality figures.

The spring has recovered the losses in betting turnover from the first quarter of the year, with betting on the Everest up three per cent year-on-year and the Golden Eagle surpassing all expectations.

“We were like everyone else in Australia until September, our betting figures were horrible,” Racing NSW chief executive Peter V’landys said. “In the spring we were able to increase our market share with the new races and that has offset the slow start to the year. We are where we were last year now.”

The Everest holds its place as the biggest betting race in NSW with the Golden Eagle dropping in at number three behind the Queen Elizabeth Stakes for 2019.

“Punters wanted to bet on the Golden Eagle in its first year because of the quality of the field,” V’landys said. “It is only going to grow. It would have been the second-best betting race of the year but this year’s Queen Elizabeth was huge, being Winx’s last race.”

The Australian Turf Club reported a 36 per cent lift in the corporate side of its race day business with The Everest and Golden Eagle becoming must-see events on the Sydney calendar.

It has prompted Racing NSW to put all corporate and dining tickets on sale for the autumn and spring carnivals before Christmas to give businesses and the public the chance to get in early.

“Corporate hospitality is growing and is defying the trend around Australia,” ATC executive general manager commercial, Corina Black, said.

“Our feedback from our clients is that a day at the races is better value for money because you get a full day with your clients.

“The corporate cycle is to plan for next spring at this time of the year, so that is why we have put all our packages for next year on sale now. It gives an opportunity to lock in days like the Golden Slipper, The Championships and The Everest and the Golden Eagle very early.”
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2019-Dec-09, 01:33 PM
Been a long time since you've bought flowers . . .  :whistle:

https://mrroses.com.au/products/100-red-roses-bouquet?variant=31134930206814&currency=AUD&gclid=CjwKCAiA27LvBRB0EiwAPc8XWdnTWHh1QxMf_AOjhk4DYR71d0ZLs6pDEdXntKvlhWPW7FIOR9CG3hoCqDoQAvD_BwE

Arthur, $3.95 a throw if you want to buy a 100 for your next birthday gift for someone special.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: arthur on 2019-Dec-09, 02:35 PM
Shame it says "Sydney Only" . .

I could see a great wholesale/ retail opportunity unfolding  :flowers:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: nemisis on 2019-Dec-09, 04:33 PM
Partial extract from SMH article today. Vlandys has defied turnover issues.

Spring becoming big business as Sydney bucks national trends

Chris Roots

By Chris Roots

 December 8, 2019 — 3.49pm

The success of the extended spring carnival has Sydney racing defying national trends in betting, crowds and corporate hospitality figures.

The spring has recovered the losses in betting turnover from the first quarter of the year, with betting on the Everest up three per cent year-on-year and the Golden Eagle surpassing all expectations.

“We were like everyone else in Australia until September, our betting figures were horrible,” Racing NSW chief executive Peter V’landys said. “In the spring we were able to increase our market share with the new races and that has offset the slow start to the year. We are where we were last year now.”

The Everest holds its place as the biggest betting race in NSW with the Golden Eagle dropping in at number three behind the Queen Elizabeth Stakes for 2019.

“Punters wanted to bet on the Golden Eagle in its first year because of the quality of the field,” V’landys said. “It is only going to grow. It would have been the second-best betting race of the year but this year’s Queen Elizabeth was huge, being Winx’s last race.”

The Australian Turf Club reported a 36 per cent lift in the corporate side of its race day business with The Everest and Golden Eagle becoming must-see events on the Sydney calendar.

It has prompted Racing NSW to put all corporate and dining tickets on sale for the autumn and spring carnivals before Christmas to give businesses and the public the chance to get in early.

“Corporate hospitality is growing and is defying the trend around Australia,” ATC executive general manager commercial, Corina Black, said.

“Our feedback from our clients is that a day at the races is better value for money because you get a full day with your clients.

“The corporate cycle is to plan for next spring at this time of the year, so that is why we have put all our packages for next year on sale now. It gives an opportunity to lock in days like the Golden Slipper, The Championships and The Everest and the Golden Eagle very early.”
Disappointing to read a Racing NSW's spin sheet put up as news in a newspaper which claims "independent always".

Proper journalism would put up %'s  around 'horrible betting figures".......although the "we are where we were this time last year now" gives us something.

Robbie Waterhouse's line about racing being "uncool" to young people should have racing administrators on guard.

Mid February is when the police charges of cruelty, cheating and fraud against D Weir will be big in the news again.......Sydney Autumn carnival time!
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Dec-09, 04:53 PM
Shame it says "Sydney Only" . .

I could see a great wholesale/ retail opportunity unfolding  :flowers:

If you win big, or need forgiveness  you now know what price range the 100 roses should be.  :lol:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Dec-09, 05:03 PM
This is the latest on the flower power brawl. Is it me or a couple of the people pictured have day member passes?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7770311/Rosehill-Races-fight-Man-hit-head-bunch-flowers.html
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: sobig on 2019-Dec-09, 05:05 PM
Certainly looks like day passes on the top two.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Gintara on 2019-Dec-09, 05:37 PM
Certainly looks like day passes on the top two.

He has different pants on from the first photo to the brawl photos  :shrug:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Dec-09, 07:18 PM


........ a very serious allegation

There is no place in the mainstream media for a 'journalist' that would compromise his professional integrity and independence with a contract with Tabcorp precluding it.

Sadly for XXXXXX the reason for this promotional piece lies with his "nothing negative" contract with Sky.

Sadly also, it is not clear that other racing media writers are not similarly compromised.

..... are there other 'journalists' known to be 'bought' and compromised?

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Dec-09, 07:41 PM
He has different pants on from the first photo to the brawl photos  :shrug:

Looks like it doesn’t it

Certainly looks like day passes on the top two.

It is quite easy to get one of these and ATC is not the only club to do so for anyone.  You can buy member passes anytime including if you are a corporate or part owner too. I do feel sorry for the ATC as they have spent years improving the fight image they got in the 00s.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Atreus on 2019-Dec-16, 04:33 PM
The Pegasus race in America has crashed and burned.  Remember the Pegasus was the race V'Landys copied when creating the Everest.  The slot holders idea for the Pegasus has been scrapped and as a result prizemoney has been cut back from $9 million to $3 million so now it is just another race

The Yanks have found that these slot holder races for massive "prizemoney" are negative ROI events and unsustainable

How long until the Everest carnival is wound back to something sustainable?  The Everest is the only slot holder race but every new race at the Everest carnival this year had way too much prizemoney allocated to it

https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/no-longer-a-buy-in-race-pegasus-world-cup-to-be-medication-free-in-2020/
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2019-Dec-16, 09:07 PM
 
Atreus makes a prescient point

While opposed to dare-to-be-great disruptive policy approaches in an industry with such treasured traditions, it is well beyond time that RVL was exposed for delivering tripe dressed up as 'black type' and more generally adopting short-term, money-grabbing tactics which make racing unfair for all but the fixed-odds parasites and rebate-taking syndicates.

... ............talk about abandoning the only customers that  pay the freight!

I would be tipping RVL's  brainless 'no' star mile to be the first to be sidelined.

Our Pete is destined for immortality -- should be put in the 'hall of fame' asap as an illustration of the prospects for the industry .............. bar exposing the failure of RVL and recognizing that the best weather in Sydney is in Spring.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Dec-16, 10:06 PM
Interesting article Atreus. I am intrigued why the prize money reduction as the slot holders are not paying the money according to the article so if they paid, prizemoney should have gone up.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: rothfire2021 on 2019-Dec-17, 06:24 AM
After the inaugural running of the Pegasus World Cup at Gulfstream Park in 2017 the initial ‘slot holder’ race has met its demise under its starting format so you might ask ‘is this a sign of things to come for The Everest?’ I think not.

The 2017 Pegasus World Cup was won by champion galloper Arrogate and was followed by Gun Runner in 2018 and City Of Light earlier this year.

However while the winners have been bona fide stars the problem with the Pegasus has been there were never any more than a couple of chances, so how would 12 people want to fork out the US$1m to purchase a slot when you’ve got little hope getting a hold of the winner?

Now we see The Stronach Group, who run the event, changing tack and running both the 2020 Pegasus World Cup Invitational and World Cup Turf Invitational without any entry fees - the slots are gone.

But so too has the prizemoney, the inaugural Pegasus World Cup was worth US$12m, then it was upped to US$16m and this year it was US$17m, but that was split over two races worth $9m and $7m with a $1m bonus on offer if an owner won both, and the slot holders forked out $500,000, and there were 24 of them this year.

Now the 2020 version of the inaugural dirt race has been reduced to US$3m with the turf edition worth ‘just’ US$1m after being run under much fanfare for $7m last January.

It would be nice to say it was great while it lasted but the reality was it wasn’t for the majority of participants – but that’s not saying the event didn’t get the wheels turning here in Australia.

The Everest was modelled on the Pegasus concept, but unlike the US version the Randwick slot holder race has gone from strength-to-strength with slots now very much sought after.

There has been no standout in any edition of The Everest and in the three runnings so far virtually every horse that turned up on the day has been a live chance, and with all the current slot holders indicating they want more the future seems well and truly assured for the Aussie version.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Dec-17, 06:45 AM
After the inaugural running of the Pegasus World Cup at Gulfstream Park in 2017 the initial ‘slot holder’ race has met its demise under its starting format so you might ask ‘is this a sign of things to come for The Everest?’ I think not.

The 2017 Pegasus World Cup was won by champion galloper Arrogate and was followed by Gun Runner in 2018 and City Of Light earlier this year.

However while the winners have been bona fide stars the problem with the Pegasus has been there were never any more than a couple of chances, so how would 12 people want to fork out the US$1m to purchase a slot when you’ve got little hope getting a hold of the winner?

Now we see The Stronach Group, who run the event, changing tack and running both the 2020 Pegasus World Cup Invitational and World Cup Turf Invitational without any entry fees - the slots are gone.

But so too has the prizemoney, the inaugural Pegasus World Cup was worth US$12m, then it was upped to US$16m and this year it was US$17m, but that was split over two races worth $9m and $7m with a $1m bonus on offer if an owner won both, and the slot holders forked out $500,000, and there were 24 of them this year.

Now the 2020 version of the inaugural dirt race has been reduced to US$3m with the turf edition worth ‘just’ US$1m after being run under much fanfare for $7m last January.

It would be nice to say it was great while it lasted but the reality was it wasn’t for the majority of participants – but that’s not saying the event didn’t get the wheels turning here in Australia.

The Everest was modelled on the Pegasus concept, but unlike the US version the Randwick slot holder race has gone from strength-to-strength with slots now very much sought after.

There has been no standout in any edition of The Everest and in the three runnings so far virtually every horse that turned up on the day has been a live chance, and with all the current slot holders indicating they want more the future seems well and truly assured for the Aussie version.

Agree Rothfire regarding the quality of the Everest. The best field this year in Australia was the Everest.

Not sure what the future of other races like the Bondi, Golden Eagle etc.

The Everest will carry the Sydney spring on it’s shoulders. I can see the ATC also cutting any prizemoney at all in the other spring races even with any declines in turnover as it will be admitting there were mistakes made.

I will be intrigued if any of the racing bodies have any ideas of addressing the turnover issues.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Dec-18, 06:56 AM
SFS rebuild has now gone over $99 million over the original amount.
Not V’landys issue for the overspend but the timing of the stadium opening will help him in the long run.

It is still expected to open in 2022 and like Bank West in Parramatta will help improve crowd attendance.

The only catch for V’landys and co will be if expansion is on the cards for the next tv deal as most Sydney clubs who don’t play in the suburban grounds, will not leave ANZ and SFS after a rebuild. The crowds will increase too so makes expansion or relocation tricky.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Dec-22, 08:40 PM
It did not take long for V’Landys to put someone offside in the NRL world of expansion. It will be the first of many as V’landys was given a poisoned chalice as no one previously before him wanted to make a decision.

V’Landys is right re 2nd Brisbane side but will it be a relocation or a new side is the question? There are some basket financial sides at the moment and the new tv deal will not be lucrative as the last unless Foxtel has rocks in their brains or a internet streaming service jumps in.

Article below regarding Perth expansion.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/118397458/perth-takes-fight-to-nrl-over-expansion-snub
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: JWesleyHarding on 2019-Dec-23, 06:28 PM
I'm not up to speed on the latest plans re the NRL. contraction/expansion.

Are Souths again destined for extinction?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Dec-23, 07:15 PM
  :lol:

Only if more ignorant  :crap: :crap: :crap: :crap: :crap: like Murdoch step in
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Dec-23, 08:28 PM
I'm not up to speed on the latest plans re the NRL. contraction/expansion.

Are Souths again destined for extinction?

Interesting question and answer will always vary.

Upshot is general consensus is NRL does not have the talent or financial depths to have 18 teams.

Thus more chance of relocation than expansion. The prime candidate are the Titans. Another couple of failure seasons will deplete the crowds even further and make further inroads into their financial reserves. They also cannot attract crowds of 10k regularly when they are losing.

The other team that has come up intermittently are the Sharks. I find it quite strange as they recently won a premiership and on top future development should have secured their future.

None of the Sydney clubs will relocate willingly including the sharks. The titans may not have a choice unless things improve.

The locations for new teams will either be in Brisbane, Ipswich or Central Coast. Considering V’landys has discounted Perth, it will be tough for them to be in the running even though sentimentally they would be a big chance with the general public.

Although 2nd Brisbane team would be the big favourites in my humble opinion, unless the new tv deal requires 18 teams, the 2nd Brisbane team will be no chance unless there is a relocation.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Dec-23, 10:25 PM
I'm not up to speed on the latest plans re the NRL. contraction/expansion.

Are Souths again destined for extinction?

I think there is talk Russ wants to relocate them to the US.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2019-Dec-24, 06:35 AM
I think there is talk Russ wants to relocate them to the US.


He can’t. Politis has already taken a franchise over there so they can “claim” some more juniors
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Dec-24, 06:59 AM

He can’t. Politis has already taken a franchise over there so they can “claim” some more juniors

Don’t worry Politis will win another comp in next few years if not 2020. He knows how to get value out of the salary cap where mere mortals struggle.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Dec-24, 11:21 AM

He can’t. Politis has already taken a franchise over there so they can “claim” some more juniors

  :lol:

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2019-Dec-27, 12:06 AM
Interesting tidbit from Richie re V’landys in his column near the end. Looking at V’landys and his track record, I will not be surprised if he does not juggle everything as he is a workaholic. But I also do think the jobs he is doing now is very stressful to say the least especially the NRL gig.

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/where-are-all-the-naysayers-now-20191224
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Jan-02, 06:33 AM
Webster is getting ideas from the forum.   :lol:

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/nrl/can-an-iron-fist-bring-together-the-pieces-in-rugby-league-s-puzzle-20200101-p53o2g.html
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Jan-14, 10:54 PM
It seems the ABC has investigated the complaint by V’landys and Racing NSW. The end result is the complaints had no basis and it stated the complaint itself contained erroneous statements and claims according to Racenet and Australian.

The question is will Racing NSW and V’landys go the next step and lodge a complaint with ACMA or lick their wounds?

In my opinion ACMA could find some adverse findings against ABC however they could also criticise Racing NSW and / or V’landys too if they had made incorrect submissions or statements.

Tough call for Racing NSW and V’landys. ACMA also take their time too which means a result could also fall in carnival time too.

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/abc-probe-clears-abc-report-into-horse-cruelty-20200114
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Feb-23, 04:29 PM
V’Landys has floated an idea of another Brisbane team as part of the new Television deal.

I think it is a no brainer to have another Brisbane side. However do they get rid of Gold Coast or bring a 18th side as 17 sides means a bye each week. I also think broadcasters prefer an extra game if they have to pay a lot extra too.

The issue of an 18th side from Perth, Central Coast or another extra side from Qld or NZ is complicated. V’Landys needs to bring extra money as previous tv deals have gone up and up. However setting up a NRL side from scratch with no drafts plus a couple of basket cases in current NRL sides is going to be difficult.

I also think Storm are going to have difficulties in a few years if not sooner as they have managed to hold onto fans by winning constantly and having a good coach. This cannot be maintained forever so I will be intrigued to see how it plays out.

But kudos to V’Landys for pushing the expansion plan as it was too hard for some.


Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Feb-24, 04:00 AM
V’Landys has floated an idea of another Brisbane team as part of the new Television deal.

I think it is a no brainer to have another Brisbane side. However do they get rid of Gold Coast or bring a 18th side as 17 sides means a bye each week. I also think broadcasters prefer an extra game if they have to pay a lot extra too.

The issue of an 18th side from Perth, Central Coast or another extra side from Qld or NZ is complicated. V’Landys needs to bring extra money as previous tv deals have gone up and up. However setting up a NRL side from scratch with no drafts plus a couple of basket cases in current NRL sides is going to be difficult.

I also think Storm are going to have difficulties in a few years if not sooner as they have managed to hold onto fans by winning constantly and having a good coach. This cannot be maintained forever so I will be intrigued to see how it plays out.

But kudos to V’Landys for pushing the expansion plan as it was too hard for some.

I read it is pretty much a certainty for a fourth Qld team.

The three candidates are the Brisbane Bombers consortium, Ipswich or Redcliffe.

I like the idea of Redcliffe coming into the NRL. As you said Jeunes, it is pretty tough starting a team from scratch and Redcliffe are a household name even in NSW. You cannot put a value on that sort of recognition.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2020-Feb-24, 08:43 AM


A racing-forum is for racing -- not thugby-league
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2020-Feb-24, 09:57 PM
A racing forum is for those that care about racing rather than self interest

Mair is a failure  :lol:   :lol:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Feb-28, 12:40 PM
From SMH today


Opinion

V'landys' secret Murdoch meeting as Greenberg future grows murky


Andrew Webster

February 27, 2020 — 6.00pm


Rugby league executives have been clocking up the frequent flyer points in the past two weeks, jetting from one side of the world to the other.

NRL chief executive Todd Greenberg was in the UK last week for the Roosters’ successful World Club Challenge campaign, while ARL Commission chairman Peter V’landys and chief commercial officer Andrew Abdo were in the US this week.

V’landys refused to comment on the secret trip with Abdo when this column contacted him, but it can be revealed he met with Fox Corp executive chairman Lachlan Murdoch in Los Angeles.

He and Abdo then headed to San Francisco where they met with the likes of Google, Facebook and Amazon — presumably about the looming broadcast negotiations when such streaming services will be used by the NRL as leverage for a fatter deal.



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V’landys was even less inclined to discuss Greenberg’s two-year contract extension, which was supposed to be signed before Christmas, then early in the new year, then when V’landys returned from holidays in late January, then early February, then the end of this month …

The pair are expected to meet late on Friday, after the annual general meeting, to discuss the deal. But it wouldn’t surprise if negotiations dragged on until the start of the season.

V’landys and Greenberg say there’s nothing to see here, but the reality is there's a considerable power play happening behind the scenes as V’landys stamps his authority on the code.

If V’landys had complete faith in his chief executive, surely the extension — which was one of the loose conditions of former chairman Peter Beattie standing aside in October last year — would have been signed off by now.

As one club boss said this week: “In this game, your chairman and chief executive need to be so close that you can’t fit a cigarette paper between them”.



V’landys has consistently denied theories about him wanting Greenberg’s job, although his remarks at a Carbine Club lunch at the Magic Millions racing carnival in early January about juggling his day job as Racing NSW chief executive while ruling rugby league stirred plenty of chatter in both sports.

“I'll decide in the next 12 months,” V'landys told the room, according to several people at the function. “If I see that I can't do both, I will have to make a decision.”

V’landys’ contract with Racing NSW ends at the end of this year, having taken over as chief executive in 2004 and fought — and won — many, many battles.

Rugby league is a different beast, though. In racing, V’landys owns the room. In rugby league, he remains an outsider.

He runs racing through fear and has adopted a similar approach at League Central, promising to sack anybody who leaks sensitive information to the media.

He also made it very clear at his introductory media conference as chairman that he will live and die by the size of the next broadcast deal.

 He promised a “better result” than the current deal of $1.8 billion with Channel Nine (publisher of this masthead) and Fox Sports.

This coming season is the third of a five-year deal, but negotiations have been cranked up early because the NRL is wrestling with the idea of expanding its so-called “footprint” from 2023. If new teams are to be part of the next broadcast deal, they will need to be set-up sooner than later.

V’landys tripped himself up last year when he declared in The Courier-Mail he wanted a second team in Brisbane, in a 17-team competition, with Perth to be snubbed because it's an AFL city.

Many within the game considered the interview to be grandstanding. At the very least, it caught a lot of people off-guard. Why he would make such bold statements about what “the footprint” would look like without first consulting its key stakeholders?

His trip to the US with Abdo and not Greenberg has been interpreted by some club bosses as a sign that V’landys wants to cut Greenberg out of the broadcast deal. It’s no secret that V’landys is a huge supporter of Abdo.

Greenberg attended the WCC after Roosters chairman Nick Politis complained about the lack of any NRL officials at last year’s match against Wigan. He also met with key Super League stakeholders, as well as Australian High Commissioner to the UK, George Brandis, about the Kangaroo tour at the end of this season.

Abdo was supposed to be on the same trip but was a sudden withdrawal before being redirected to the US with V'landys.



(For the purposes of transparency, this column covered the Roosters’ WCC campaign as a guest of the NRL).

ARL Commission sources say the board has been split about Greenberg’s contract being extended. Is Greenberg the right man for the game’s most thankless job — even if it does pay upwards of $1.2 million a year plus bonuses?

The announcement on Thursday of a $30m profit for last season suggests he’s doing OK, although club chief executives will grill him at the annual general meeting about the game’s costs.


There’s still a belief, certainly among the clubs and the states, that Greenberg is more worried about surviving than having vision; about perception and optics.



He’s made some mistakes but had several wins, and at the very least the game cannot really afford to sack another chief executive and find a new one, especially this close to the start of the season. Better the devil you know and all that.

Should he survive, it will be compelling viewing as he goes about his business for the next two years with V’landys sitting on his shoulder.

They are two different types of sports administrators: Greenberg is a slick media performer who also has the ear of Premier Gladys Berejiklian. V'landys loathes ceremony, avoids a microphone at all costs, and works brilliantly in the shadows.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2020-Feb-28, 09:39 PM


Jeunes -- this is a racing forum -- if you want a thugby forum, start another thread headed 'thugby'.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Feb-28, 10:03 PM

Jeunes -- this is a racing forum -- if you want a thugby forum, start another thread headed 'thugby'.

What is “thugby”? I have never seen it.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Feb-28, 10:22 PM
Jeunes I wouldn't be surprised if V'Landys has already decided to get rid of Greenberg.

They are poles apart.

V'Landys is an ideas man. Greenberg is an arch conservative who does anything and everything according to the rule book.

Everything TG does seems to be done with the intent of not offending anyone - and especially the media.

V'Landys is hated by the Victorian media and he thrives on that.

I cannot see the two working together and PVL perhaps may even have someone in mind to bring in with him most likely someone from NSW racing or TAB.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Feb-28, 10:24 PM

Jeunes -- this is a racing forum -- if you want a thugby forum, start another thread headed 'thugby'.

Peter,

Peter V'Landys has been appointed commissioner to the NRL and is taking over the leadership role that Peter Beattie had (if you can call that leadership). He continues as the head of Racing NSW.

It is quite relevant to be discussing his new NRL role on this thread.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Feb-28, 11:18 PM
Jeunes I wouldn't be surprised if V'Landys has already decided to get rid of Greenberg.

They are poles apart.

V'Landys is an ideas man. Greenberg is an arch conservative who does anything and everything according to the rule book.

Everything TG does seems to be done with the intent of not offending anyone - and especially the media.

V'Landys is hated by the Victorian media and he thrives on that.

I cannot see the two working together and PVL perhaps may even have someone in mind to bring in with him most likely someone from NSW racing or TAB.

I think V’Landys is on the right track except for have big 17 teams. Even means no bye.

Greenberg has done nothing wrong but personally I don’t think he has the ideas as much as V’Landys does.

Rugby League has not changed much in teams etc over the past decade. There have been rule changes, usual errors and excitement but no big plans.

Expansion or new markets is the key. I would even argue with 18 teams that there should be divisions to encourage more buy in for rivalries.

Racing NSW would be crazy not to sign V’Landys again but saying that 16 years is a long time for both parties. He won battles that others did not want to fight.

I am however intrigued why he would want NRL CEO instead of Chairman. CEO gets paid more but they can be sacked by the Chairman.

Also the NRL clubs can be self centred too which is an issue at times. However if the Coronavirus comes to Australia in a big way, he will have some bigger issues.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Feb-29, 06:23 PM

Greenberg has done nothing wrong

As a Roosters fan, I can tell you one thing he did very, very wrong back in 2015 or 2016 - cannot remember the exact year.

We came last that year and it was all down to a mistake admitted a few years by Todd Greenberg.

Mitchell Pearce had a few too many to drink and foolishly went to a stranger's house.

Someone was filming him secretly in a closet and the hosts were goading him into doing stupid things. One was to simulate having sex with the family dog - fully clothed mind you.

It lasted about 2 seconds and was clearly done as a joke.

Next thing, these scum sold their video to Channel 9 (more scum) for $250,000 which allowed 9 to advertise for A Current Affair that night that they had footage of an NRL start having sex with an animal.

Todd Greenberg over-reacted and insisted that Easts suspend him for 9 weeks and send him to rehab in the US.
 
Two years ago, Greenberg publicly apologized to Pearce for what he did. He must be a decent bloke who was living with this guilt for all those years.

But Easts fans will never forget it.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Feb-29, 07:31 PM
As a Roosters fan, I can tell you one thing he did very, very wrong back in 2015 or 2016 - cannot remember the exact year.

We came last that year and it was all down to a mistake admitted a few years by Todd Greenberg.

Mitchell Pearce had a few too many to drink and foolishly went to a stranger's house.

Someone was filming him secretly in a closet and the hosts were goading him into doing stupid things. One was to simulate having sex with the family dog - fully clothed mind you.

It lasted about 2 seconds and was clearly done as a joke.

Next thing, these scum sold their video to Channel 9 (more scum) for $250,000 which allowed 9 to advertise for A Current Affair that night that they had footage of an NRL start having sex with an animal.

Todd Greenberg over-reacted and insisted that Easts suspend him for 9 weeks and send him to rehab in the US.
 
Two years ago, Greenberg publicly apologized to Pearce for what he did. He must be a decent bloke who was living with this guilt for all those years.

But Easts fans will never forget it.

You would not have got Cronk if Pearce was a good boy and / or the video was not shot.    :lol:  

So you owe Greenberg 2 premierships.   :lol:  
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: JWesleyHarding on 2020-Mar-01, 08:46 AM
  :biggrin:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Arsenal on 2020-Mar-03, 09:47 AM
V'Landys sues the ABC for defamation arising out of their conduct towards him in the 4Corners exposure of the Final Race .

"By reasons of the matter complained of, the Applicant has been greatly injured and his business, personal and professional reputation has been, continues to be and will be brought into public disrepute, ridicule and contempt," court documents state."

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/racing/v-landys-sues-abc-for-defamation-over-racehorse-cruelty-expose-20200302-p5460b.html

ENDS

Hard to imagine he would be appointed to replace the Hon. Peter Beattie as head of the NRL if his reputation was in doubt or damaged ...still the ABC didn't come clean but I for one think none the less of him....admittedly he has his detractors but he got things moving in NSW and has made sensible comments on the future of the NRL ..and shaved his beard off .....looks much more presentable.

Giddy Up :beer:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2020-Mar-12, 08:53 AM



.....a delicious irony


Betfair is holding out on the NRL .... until it gets a fair go...........  the karma fairy strikes.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Mar-14, 10:45 AM
With racing and league going behind closed doors after this weekend, things are going to be very interesting in the future.

I think V’Landys is one of the few sports administrators in Australia who can actually fight for their sports to get compensation or funding from the governments.

NRL Clubs will lose at least 5-10 million in ticket sales, merchandise, hospitality sales etc every week due to no crowds. This is based on  an average round total crowd figure of 100k.

Racing has it’s big Easter and Championship coming up so it is a significant hit coming up especially with the big marquee and sponsorship packages plus marketing and merchandise already made.

Let’s not even talk about the advertising bookings already made to promote the races and league. The other issue is the possibility of all the events are suspended as broadcasters may want a refund etc. There is a possibility of people not returning when things get back to normal.

The only upside is if no suspension, there will be more people staying home, more chances of higher audiences etc. This may result in higher advertising or sponsorship of teams etc.

The flip side too if people don’t go to the races or races suspended, no gambling revenue coming back too.

V’Landys fought hard on the Papal visit and race fields so he will do his best to fight hard for his sports. However trying times ahead for him.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Mar-15, 09:49 AM
Watched V’Landys and Greenberg press conference this morning. Big issue for them I can see is to sell a compensation scheme for the government to bail them out.

Most bon sports lovers and there are many of them will take umbrage that NRL and players getting paid compensation over someone who is working at a local shop etc.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Gintara on 2020-Mar-15, 08:34 PM
Agreed Jeunes.

It's hard to take him serious when he sits there with a smug look on his face asking for a hand out. Pretty sure the general population would prefer hospitals etc to be looked after before a football comp.  :shutup:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Mar-15, 09:59 PM
My in-laws saw the press conference and said that V’landys seemed ignorant of other needs by his entitlement views. They felt that after all the money given to them with the stadiums, it just seems rich for him to keep demanding.

One point they made is that it is only sport and they should be back at the queue after the hospitals, aged care etc. Why should the taxpayer pay millions for an organisation that already got more than a billion for their stadiums. They could cancel rebuilding of one of the two stadiums and play out of one stadium  only. That is still better than bankruptcy.

It is pure economics and unfortunately I think sport will suffer as it is in every other country that has suspended operations. Most people will continue to have issues that we can’t get enough medical equipment or workers get paid etc.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: JWesleyHarding on 2020-Mar-16, 11:12 AM
Maybe I'm wrong but I don't recall it being the NRL screaming out for new stadiums (stadia)
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Gintara on 2020-Mar-17, 12:13 PM
You're right JWH but the general public blames them as they are the most visible tenant.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: jfc on 2020-Mar-17, 01:34 PM
Talk about a class act!

My bet is there is a lot of extravagances that could be cut from the ARL expenses without materially affecting operations.

So many people have had their lives destroyed by recent events, but V'landys has no qualms about elbowing his way to the front of the queue.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2020-Mar-17, 02:57 PM
I know you dislike him but saying he’s “ elbowing his way to the front of the queue“ is totally over the top.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Mar-18, 07:18 AM
Personally, I think V’Landys and Greenberg may have made a major miscalculation in regards to asking or approaching the topic of compensation at this time instead of waiting at the end. Public sentiment is not with them.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2020-Mar-27, 08:14 PM


........ gotta be dreamin

V'landys' rescue package for NRL players and clubs revealed


........ there should be no credibility to any idea that money from a public-purse should be misused to prop up a cultural aberration so offensive to all for so long.


..... and the same goes for the game called 'mugby' ... now regarded as a joke.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: gunbower on 2020-Mar-27, 09:22 PM
All football players simply play a game. If that doesn't exist then while it is unfortunate , it is hardly a tragedy. Suggest it might be time for them to go back and find a real job. I don't want my taxes to bail out their lifestyle.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Mar-27, 09:41 PM

........ gotta be dreamin

V'landys' rescue package for NRL players and clubs revealed


........ there should be no credibility to any idea that money from a public-purse should be misused to prop up a cultural aberration so offensive to all for so long.


..... and the same goes for the game called 'mugby' ... now regarded as a joke.

What Is “Mugby”? Can we bet on it and what channel is it on? I miss live sport.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Atreus on 2020-Mar-29, 03:16 PM
Richard Freedman talking sense.  Australian racing now has a chance to rid itself of all these insane mega prizemoney races such as the Everest, Golden Eagle, Bondi Stakes, Golden Gift, All Star Mile, the Hunter, the Gong etc etc which go nowhere near paying for themselves via increased wagering turnover

The prizemoney structure of Aussie racing has become a mess.  G2 and G3 prizemoney can vary from 150K to 300K, G1 prizemoney can vary from 500K to 14 million.  Saturday restricted races at 125K are almost the same prizemoney as a lot of Group races at 160K.  Races like the Gong and the Hunter have G2 quality fields but million dollar prizemoney while a lot of G2 races are 160K.  There is no consistency between prizemoney levels and the class of the horse in a race

Prizemoney levels and class of race should be consistent so each step up in class is a step up in prizemoney but not 100 steps up in prizemoney

Changing prizemoney levels will be too little too late to save Aussie racing but it would be a step in the right direction at least

Remember that America has reset the prizemoney for the Pegasus massively downwards as the race was not paying its way.  And this was the race that inspired the Everest and all these other mega prizemoney races.  The concept of the mega prizemoney race is a flop

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/freedman--this-gives-racing-a-chance-to-reset-its-prizemoney-thinking-20200329

"But I think there is a positive that could come out of it, and that is there was never an opportunity to cut those (rich) races before.

"There was no political way to do it - there was no administrator who was going to waltz into a state regulator and say I'm cutting all the races back.

"That was never ever a possibility.

"Now it is a possibility for a very good reason.

"And it gives us the opportunity to reset our thinking."
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Mar-29, 05:08 PM
V’Landys has a few problems on his hand and racing is probably the least of them.

Racing can be rebooted with less prizemoney and quite bluntly less meetings as a whole if they are shutdown. I don’t think punters will be flocking back in the numbers prior especially the older ones once Tabs and Pubs open again. It will be a big issue for some codes especially the night meetings.The question is what happens to the Everest, Eagle etc. A 50% cut will be realistic but what is the contract for the slot holders ie minimum prizemoney

The bigger problem for V’landys is League. He inherited a basket case and if rumours are true then it is hard to explain the $500k spent per day by NRL. NRL boards went professional years ago to improve the game’s sustainability but were they feeding on the trough? There is $21m in contributions not paid by the NRL in last few years.

https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/growing-nrl-greed-exposed-by-virus-lowe/5ec4bb01-6ad5-4952-867a-77ddb270f9fd
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Apr-01, 08:57 PM
An insight into V’landys at the moment.

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/peter-v-landys---the-man-who-straddles-two-hot-seats-20200401
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Villa on 2020-Apr-01, 10:18 PM
An insight into V’landys at the moment.

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/peter-v-landys---the-man-who-straddles-two-hot-seats-20200401

As a journalist, Ben Dorries wouldn’t go two rounds in a revolving door.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-May-09, 11:17 AM
Kudos to V’Landys who has certainly managed to juggle NRL and Racing extremely well during the Covid19 pandemic.

NRL is one Covid19 case away from being shutdown but to even get to this stage speaks volumes for V’landys tenacity and vision. He will turn aRound NRL  and it’s precarious financial position over next few years if he is involved with the game.

I am using the word “if” is because he has certainly impressed many in the business world too with his ability to talk to different levels of government.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-May-09, 01:23 PM
G1 prizemoney can vary from 500K to 14 million.

Everest is not a Group 1 and the prizemoney is externally funded.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Atreus on 2020-May-09, 08:49 PM
You are right, the Everest is not a G1.  Nor should it be given the quality of winners so far.  Yes the fields on paper are good but the 2nd Everest was a shocker where Pierata ran better in the Consolation race and then backed this up by outperforming Redzel over the rest of the season.  Yes Yes Yes never won a G1

The prizemoney for the Everest is not externally funded that is a myth.  Everest slots for 2019 cost 600K.  But the prizemoney for 7th to 12th was 400K.  So effectively there was a rebate of 400K for buying a slot for 600K.  So each slot cost only 200K each

12 x 200K = $2.4 million was the contribution from slot holders in 2019.  The total prizemoney was $14 million so $11.6 million of the prizemoney was provided by sources other than the slot holders
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Peter Mair on 2020-May-09, 09:02 PM

............. a  never-everest



Parroting sense and nonsense about the 'dare to be great' (and give out free tickets) role of the never-everest only feeds the move to cannonize our-pete.


.....our pete has an unerring instinct to ask for what those with the money want .. ugby and acing

Lissen up and learn.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-May-09, 09:53 PM

............. a  never-everest



Parroting sense and nonsense about the 'dare to be great' (and give out free tickets) role of the never-everest only feeds the move to cannonize our-pete.


.....our pete has an unerring instinct to ask for what those with the money want .. ugby and acing

Lissen up and learn.

Don’t you think Pete has done a good job in promoting league and racing?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-May-09, 09:55 PM
You are right, the Everest is not a G1.  Nor should it be given the quality of winners so far.  Yes the fields on paper are good but the 2nd Everest was a shocker where Pierata ran better in the Consolation race and then backed this up by outperforming Redzel over the rest of the season.  Yes Yes Yes never won a G1

The prizemoney for the Everest is not externally funded that is a myth.  Everest slots for 2019 cost 600K.  But the prizemoney for 7th to 12th was 400K.  So effectively there was a rebate of 400K for buying a slot for 600K.  So each slot cost only 200K each

12 x 200K = $2.4 million was the contribution from slot holders in 2019.  The total prizemoney was $14 million so $11.6 million of the prizemoney was provided by sources other than the slot holders

Do you want to re-do your maths or should I  ;)


The Everest is well on the way to supplanting The Melbourne Cup as "the race that stops the nation".

Joe Public receives the marketing that it is "the richest turf race in the world" and that is what Joe Public believes.

And Joe Public punts a squillion on not only the Everest, but on the support races and the fantastic Caulfield races run on the same day.

Has become the best Saturday on the racing calendar, supplanting VRC Derby Day.

And Richard Freedman doesn't strike me as a "glass half full" guy. He would change his mind pretty quickly if he won one of those races.

The prizemoney increases come from "tax parity".
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: gunbower on 2020-May-09, 10:21 PM
Sorry PP it is farce funded by a motley collection of Tax Evaders, Middle Eastern Oil Shonks , Chinese money launderers as well as the inevitable Australian drug cheat. Doesn't really get my interest.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-May-09, 10:59 PM
Sorry PP it is farce funded by a motley collection of Tax Evaders, Middle Eastern Oil Shonks , Chinese money launderers as well as the inevitable Australian drug cheat. Doesn't really get my interest.

  :lol:

You could be describing about 90% of Australian racehorse owners - the equity figure at least.

Arteus was only $4 million out in his maths.

But hey. If we are bashing The Everest then there is no need for the truth is there?

Horse Prize Earned Cost Of A Slot
Yes Yes Yes $6,599,000.00 $600,000.00
Santa Ana Lane $2,140,000.00 $600,000.00
Trekking $1,240,000.00 $600,000.00
Nature Strip $900,000.00 $600,000.00
Pierata $680,000.00 $600,000.00
Classique Legend $450,000.00 $600,000.00
Alizee $400,000.00 $600,000.00
Redzel $400,000.00 $600,000.00
In Her Time $400,000.00 $600,000.00
Sunlight $400,000.00 $600,000.00
Arcadia Queen $400,000.00 $600,000.00
Ten Sovereigns $400,000.00 $600,000.00
TOTAL $14,409,000.00 $7,200,000.00

From the shortfall you would have to subtract the TAB Sponsorship - and that is anyone's guess.

Then there is the extra $75 million per year via Tax Parity.

So no need to overstate things, is there. You'll only be pleasing the bitter twisted bods at RVL who think they have "entitlement" on Spring racing. Not anyone else. Certainly not Joe Public.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-May-09, 11:03 PM
Do you want to re-do your maths or should I  ;)


The Everest is well on the way to supplanting The Melbourne Cup as "the race that stops the nation".

Joe Public receives the marketing that it is "the richest turf race in the world" and that is what Joe Public believes.

And Joe Public punts a squillion on not only the Everest, but on the support races and the fantastic Caulfield races run on the same day.

Has become the best Saturday on the racing calendar, supplanting VRC Derby Day.

And Richard Freedman doesn't strike me as a "glass half full" guy. He would change his mind pretty quickly if he won one of those races.

The prizemoney increases come from "tax parity".

Real test for Everest as well as other sports is going to bet his year is if there will be a race crowd.

If not, turnover could take a bath compared to the drop in turnover with the Cup with no attendance.

The Cup will always stop the nation and the Everest never will unless moved to a weekday.

However to me still the Everest is the race of the year in quality especially the the last two editions. Last year’s field had the biggest depth compared to any race run last year.

The Cup though holds the imagination of the general public and will not change.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-May-09, 11:21 PM
Personally I think the real test is for The Cup.

The C Grade imports were shown up by one of our B Graders last year.

The lack of interest was palpable in NSW. Not sure about the other states.

They need to get rid of the imports if they want to save the race.

You want imports? Get horses of the quality of Lys Gracieux, Abbeyd and Danone Premium running in the mile and a quarter WFA races.

Leave the Cup to locals. They don't need that much prizemoney either. Funny how Racing NSW gets criticized for "too much prizemoney" but the Melbourne Cup (and Caulfield Cup) escapes the same criticism. They are handicaps after all and handicaps are designed to punish good horses. Gunsynd getting beaten by Piping Lane with some horrible handicap. How is that good for racing?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-May-09, 11:48 PM
PP, I think the quality and imagination of the glory of the Cups have diminished in the past few years with the number of imports.

However, it is a handicap and is supposed to give all horses a chance. That is the beauty of the Cup and romance of the stories of the winners etc

Does Redzel ‘a win have the same affinity with the general public  as Michelle Payne  and  her win. The emotion of Oliver winning after his brother’s death  or Bart’s  winners or Gai winning her Cup etc

Lately there is not much of that as the winners seem to be  too professional in many ways but it is the Cup.

My favourite story of MC folklore will always be Phar Lap with Media Puzzle and Makybe Diva winning her 3 making up the top 3.

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-May-10, 12:46 AM
PP, I think the quality and imagination of the glory of the Cups have diminished in the past few years with the number of imports.

However, it is a handicap and is supposed to give all horses a chance. That is the beauty of the Cup and romance of the stories of the winners etc

Does Redzel ‘a win have the same affinity with the general public  as Michelle Payne  and  her win. The emotion of Oliver winning after his brother’s death  or Bart’s  winners or Gai winning her Cup etc

Lately there is not much of that as the winners seem to be  too professional in many ways but it is the Cup.

My favourite story of MC folklore will always be Phar Lap with Media Puzzle and Makybe Diva winning her 3 making up the top 3.

The legend of The Cup was built on local and NZ legends. A lot of schoolboys, myself included, could recall every winner of the Cup in memory.

Being brutally honest, I can remember that Vow And Declare won the 2019 Cup. 2018? 2017? 2016? I have NFI and would have to look it up...if I could be bothered.

Caulfield Cup? Japanese horse won it last year - name escapes me. Before that  :what:

Very uninspiring.

It is very sobering to think that Bart Cummings wouldn't have trained near as many Cup winners had the international invasion happened in his time.

And they will keep coming as long as you throw nearly $13 million at the two handicaps. $2 million for each race would be plenty.

Without looking it up, who can remember the last 3 winners of The Melbourne Cup, The Caulfield Cup and The Everest. There is only one of the races I can recall the last  three winners.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-May-10, 02:23 PM
First it was the Universe's richest race. Now Australia's biggest sport's deal.

Wonder when the baggers will either wake up or shut up  :nowink:

2GB reporting this is a "Dundeel".

NRL close to finalising $2.3 billion broadcast deal

The NRL expects to sign off on one of the longest broadcast deals in Australian sport within days, reportedly set to net the cash-strapped organisation close to $2.3 billion.

ARL Commission chairman Peter V’landys has told The Sunday Telegraph that his aim is to reach an agreement on a seven-year deal with Nine and Foxtel by Friday.

The revamped contract would cover the remaining three years of the NRL’s existing deal — which is $1.8 billion for 2018-2022 — plus a four-season extension until the end of 2026.

“Both partners have acted in great faith and I believe we’re very close,” V’landys said.

“The loyalty factor has been important because you want to look after your partners who have been with the game for a long time.”

The renegotiated TV deal would be the richest in Australian sports history and would secure the NRL’s long-term financial viability. It should also guarantee the future of all 16 clubs, amid the uncertainty of the COVID-19 crisis.

The annual payments would include a discounted rate for 2020 due to the shortened 20-round regular-season campaign, which is planned to restart without fans on May 28.

The developments are a huge boost for the NRL after Nine CEO Hugh Marks recently declared it wasn’t a “given” that rugby league was a part of the network’s future.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/nrl-close-to-finalising-23-billion-broadcast-deal/news-story/41e04e0af6cd4d0a69eae1cd9302fc37

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2020-May-15, 08:38 AM
I am a Victorian and was not brought up on rugby league, however in a recent press conference I heard Peter V'Landys repeatedly pronounce rugby as 'RUG-BUY' , I maybe wrong, but is that how rugby is pronounced in NSW ? Here in Victoria rugby has always been known as 'RUG-BEE', am I confused or is PVL confused by the sport of which he is CEO ?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-May-15, 05:45 PM
It is Rugbee League but knowing the magic of V’landys at the moment, he might just merge Rugby too with League.   :lol:

On a racing note, there are talks about owners returning to racing in late June or early July. I do wonder if that happens will they have limits per horse  as it increases chances of a contamination down the track. With spring racing a few months away, is it worth the risk?
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2020-May-15, 06:03 PM
The way rugby is going it won’t be a merger  :lol:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: JWesleyHarding on 2020-May-15, 06:30 PM
The way rugby is going it won’t be a merger  :lol:

Wily
Please say "Rugby Union".

The Vics can't work out the difference between Union and League as both are "Rugby" to them.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2020-May-15, 07:59 PM
Point taken but we both kno bubba is being a naughty boy😆
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2020-May-16, 12:19 PM
Wily
Please say "Rugby Union".

The Vics can't work out the difference between Union and League as both are "Rugby" to them.

Do those in NSW know the difference between AFL & AFLW ?  :biggrin:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: arthur on 2020-May-16, 02:54 PM
Is that a trick question . .

I don't really, but from what I can make of it the AFLW is marginally stronger  :whistle:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-May-16, 04:27 PM
Interesting article from Webster regarding V’landys and his ruling regarding the one referee system. There is also a strange dig at the NRL TV deal but to be honest it suits NRL a lot especially with the $2.3b higher than anything going at the moment and V’landys job is to help the NRL.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/v-landys-gets-his-way-with-one-ref-rule-so-what-s-next-20200513-p54sl7.html
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-May-17, 02:10 PM
Is that a trick question . .

I don't really, but from what I can make of it the AFLW is marginally stronger  :whistle:

Depends on what team you follow.

I have a couple of mates that follow Carlton and they reckon that their women's team would definitely beat the mens.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-May-19, 09:48 PM
I may not necessarily agree with a one referee system as I am not sure if the error rate will improve however I can’t blame V’landys for trying this and getting more accountability for referees.

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-19/nrl-referees-boss-stands-firm-season-restart-looms/12263572
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Atreus on 2020-Jun-10, 05:08 PM
Last week at Wyong on 4th June Racing NSW were only able to cobble together a 6 race meeting

Today at Canterbury again Racing NSW could only find enough horses for a 6 race meeting

The pool of people able to afford city and provincial class horses in NSW is shrinking and we are entering the end game
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Jun-10, 08:33 PM
Last week at Wyong on 4th June Racing NSW were only able to cobble together a 6 race meeting

Today at Canterbury again Racing NSW could only find enough horses for a 6 race meeting

The pool of people able to afford city and provincial class horses in NSW is shrinking and we are entering the end game

Someone needs to tell Arteus about the virus and restrictions and the effect it is having on the economy.

Also that we had a metro meeting son Saturday and Monday.

In fact by next Saturday, and including both Saturdays, Sydney would have had two more metro meetings than any other capital city.

So if you actually take the time to add up the number of total runners and compare this summed amount to other states (instead of writing thought bubbles) then........... :chin:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: arthur on 2020-Jun-10, 09:04 PM
In North Qld the Covid Shutdown has seen a surge in acceptances . .

Owners/ Trainers seem to have been treating every meeting as if it is their last

Acceptances have been at all time highs and 'split' races have seen cards of 9 and 10 races being the norm . .

A feast of racing . . but not for the regular patrons  :confused1:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Villa on 2020-Jun-10, 09:09 PM
Flemington Saturday - 110
Mornington Monday - 100
Pakenham Tuesday - 103
Sale Today - 101

Randwick Saturday - 101
Warwick Farm Monday - 72
Scone Tuesday - 83
Canterbury Today - 43
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: arthur on 2020-Jun-10, 09:11 PM
But . .

Alas, most of the bush clubs who depend on patrons for their survival, have had to scrap their meetings . .
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Jun-11, 01:25 AM
Flemington Saturday - 110
Mornington Monday - 100
Pakenham Tuesday - 103
Sale Today - 101

Randwick Saturday - 101
Warwick Farm Monday - 72
Scone Tuesday - 83
Canterbury Today - 43

Thanks Villa   emthup

Sydney Metropolitan Runners since Saturday: 216
Melbourne Metropolitan Runners since Saturday: 110

What is going on in Melbourne? They should have many more runners because of the small size of the state.

With the ongoing integrity issues (never seems to end) and the endless drain on finances from running racing.com perhaps things are going backwards a little?

To have around half the runners that they have in Sydney begs the question doesn't it? I didn't realize things were that bad.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Jun-11, 01:40 AM
Flemington Saturday - 110
Mornington Monday - 100
Pakenham Tuesday - 103
Sale Today - 101

Randwick Saturday - 101
Warwick Farm Monday - 72
Scone Tuesday - 83
Canterbury Today - 43

Also, you mentioned the provincial meetings in Victoria, but somehow forgot to include the provincial meetings in NSW. Pretty glaring error really.

Without counting numbers, there were 8 races at Newcastle on Saturday, another 8 at Hawkesbury on Sunday.

And if we are including Sale and Scone, why didn't you mention the 5 meetings at Grafton, Tamworth, Sapphire Coast, Ballina and Corowa and the two meetings at Casterton and Swan Hill??

Are you being a bit selective in what you put out there?  ;)

Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2020-Jun-11, 08:06 AM
Well spotted PP, I didn’t notice that :thumbsup:
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Jun-14, 02:56 PM
It seems that AFL and NRL both believe they outdid each other in the revised tv deals.

I for one think that Foxtel and the network did better in the long term code than the two codes as things are slowly getting back to normal.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/v-landys-dismisses-reports-afl-got-a-better-deal-out-of-tv-partners-20200612-p5521d.html
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Atreus on 2020-Jun-23, 11:37 PM
Another 6 race meeting at Canterbury on Wednesday.  The third 6 race meeting on the Sydney and NSW provincial circuits in the last few weeks

Looks like it has gotten too expensive to own a horse in Sydney.  When you push prizemoney higher the yearling prices also go up (which benefits stud owners).  And the higher yearling prices go the smaller and smaller the pool of people who can afford to own a horse (or even a share in a horse).  This has been obvious for years but we are only now seeing the impact of these policies of endlessly pushing prizemoney higher than Mt Everest
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Antitab# on 2020-Jun-24, 12:04 PM
Not only 6 races,

3 of them are maidens

42 starters

Its dreadful
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: HarmersHaven on 2020-Jun-24, 12:12 PM
Mair heaven!

It's what he's been whining/pining for, for years.

Let's see how the industry survives if Mair's suggested reforms becomes the norm.
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: wily ole dog on 2020-Jun-24, 12:30 PM
The idiot still won’t find a winner
Title: V'Landys Gets a Gong
Post by: Jeunes on 2020-Jul-04, 06:25 PM
With all the Covid19 cases in Victoria, I do wonder if V’landys will reduce or stop Victorian horses coming down in the future?