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YOUR Questions of the FORUM - Racing Talk - Racehorse TALK

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Offline arthur

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« 2019-Jan-05, 07:56 PM Reply #3675 »
Without 'knowing' . . I'd guess that Mr Nicholls was pretty pissed off at S&S going to TJ  :whistle:

Offline gunbower

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« 2019-Jan-05, 08:55 PM Reply #3676 »
Quite true Arthur. But it was what happened fairly regularly in those days. Off the top of my head I also remember Gunsynd and Red Anchor followed the same pathway. Doesn't happen as much Today as the small time trainer is virtually a thing of the past.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Jan-06, 05:03 AM Reply #3677 »
I was out there at Randwick the day Sticks And Stones smashed the Randwick 1200m track record.

Not exaggerating when I say that he won with his head on his chest - could have run a half a second quicker.

Unfortunately he was unsound and didn't race very much afterwards.

He was by the Star Kingdom stallion Faringdon (who I can't recall siring many horses) out of Winged Beauty, dam of 6 times stakes winner Princess Talaria who was a contemporary of Luskin Star and won the 1977 Thousand Guineas. She produced 7 fillies, 6 of whom went on to deliver stakes winners.

Sticks And Stones went to stud and sired 3 stakes winners, but he made a significant contribution to Australian breeding when he sired a G1 NZ Railway Hcp winner called Diamond Lover, who appears in our Stud Books as Our Diamond Lover. The dam of Our Diamond Lover is the legendary Eight Carat - dam of Octagonal, Mouawad and Kaapstaad.

Our Diamond Lover is the dam of Derby winner and successful sire Don Eduardo (by Zabeel) and the dual Group 1 winner Tristalove (by Sir Tristam).

You could spend hours studying the families of the above mentioned horses.

You go back far enough you find that Winged Beauty is a direct female descendant of Rose Of Denmark, dam of Florence who in 1870 and 1871 won the AJC, VRC and QTC Derbies as well as the VRC Oaks - and the Champagne Stakes as a 2YO as well. Florence also ran 2nd in the 1870 Metropolitan against the older horses. Her 1870 3yo campaign was almost "Surround like" and her achievements are probably a bit understated.

Florence appears in our Champion Race Records thread

http://www.racehorsetalk.com.au/racing-talk/race-records-of-champion-racehorses/100/#msg_465907






Offline gunbower

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« 2019-Jan-06, 07:14 AM Reply #3678 »
Good summation PP. However I would add that Faringdon's most famous claim to fame was that he was a full brother to the topliners Todman and Noholme.

Online wily ole dog

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« 2019-Jan-06, 07:20 AM Reply #3679 »
Quite true Arthur. But it was what happened fairly regularly in those days. Off the top of my head I also remember Gunsynd and Red Anchor followed the same pathway. Doesn't happen as much Today as the small time trainer is virtually a thing of the past.

Weir seems to poach quite a few

Offline Gintara

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« 2019-Jan-06, 12:01 PM Reply #3680 »
Poach? Or offered?

Success breeds success. It's rumoured he doesn't knock back a horse and will give anything a go that walks off the the truck.

I've friends with horses there and can't speak highly enough of the stable & it's set up.

Online Colinjohn

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« 2019-Jan-06, 01:28 PM Reply #3681 »
On 26th of January 1976, Sticks and Stones as a 3 year old ridden by Keith Banks ran second to River Ridge in The Challenge Stakes. His trainer was J B Cummings. His dam Winged Beauty was third in the same race in 1968 behind Dawn Boy and Prince Max.

Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2019-Jan-06, 01:49 PM Reply #3682 »
His trainer was J B Cummings. .

tontonan
on: 2018-Dec-31, 01:50 AM 
Insert Quote
S.Nicholls and TJ Smith

Would you guys mind advising of sources?

Thanks

JWH

Frankly, from memory, I am more surprised about TJ than Bart as being Bart does seem to ring some bells,  but would love to find out more about Nichols.

 The other thing I'm surprised about is that S & S didn't win a Stakes race.


Online Colinjohn

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« 2019-Jan-06, 02:14 PM Reply #3683 »
Sticks and Stones won two races when trained by former Sydney racing writer John Nicholls. He was then sold in a package deal which included his Dam Winged Beauty and some younger horses for about $330,000. Included in the new owners were Perce Galea, Ferd Calvin and Percy Sykes. They transferred him to Bart Cummings. His first start for Cummings was when second in The 1973 Challenge Stakes. He then won a midweek race at Randwick on 4th of Feb. 1976. He then went to Melbourne and finished third to Kentland in The Oakeigh Plate. Then on 3rd of March he finished 15th in The Newmarket Hcp. starting at 10-1 behind Toy Show.

Offline tontonan

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« 2019-Jan-06, 02:51 PM Reply #3684 »
Sprinter back in work
SYDNEY, Sunday.
Promising young sprinter
Sticks And Stones returns
to training tomorrow after
a slight respite from racing
and his new trainer, T. J.
Smith, has the Doomben
Yen Thousand as his main
immediate mission.

Since being bought outright
by well-known punter lytr
Perce Galea and transferred
from Bart Cummirtgs to
Smith, Sticks And Stones has
had a few week's spell at
Princes Farm, Castlereagh.
Smith yesterday instructed
acting stable manager Em
Smith to have Sticks And
Stones returned from the
spelling paddock tomorrow
and he will be set for the rich
Doomben sprint on June 3.

Sticks And Stones was
bought outright by Galea
from his original owner, Mr
Fcrd Calvin, after the pair had
raced the three-year-old in
partnership, before the latter
was disqualified by the AJC
stewards over the running of
another of his horses, Count
Mayo, at Randwick on March
13.

A subsequent injunction has
prevented the disqualification
being carried out and the case
is to be heard in the Equity
Court,

On an application by Mr
Galea, the AJC stewards wit
nessed the purchase of Count
Mayo, who will also race in
his colours and be trained by
T. J. Smith.

Sticks And Stones, having
his first run for Smith, was
beaten in a photo-finish by the
Victorian speedster Golden
Fantasy over 1,200m in near
record time at Randwick a
few weeks back.

In winning, Golden Fan
tasy brought off one of the
most successful off-course
betting coups in years.
A change in training styles
could make an. entirely
different proposition of Sticks
And Stones who was inclined
to wilt in the closing stages of
a solid race over 1,200m.

- Canberra Times 10 May 1976
« Last Edit: 2019-Jan-06, 03:15 PM by tontonan »

Offline tontonan

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« 2019-Jan-06, 02:53 PM Reply #3685 »
Colt from Cummings to Smith
SYDNEY, Wednesday.
Promising sprinter Sticks and
Stones is the first horse part
owned by Bart Cummings to
be trained by Tommy Smith.
Sticks And Stones has been
switched from Cummings to
Smith to do his future racing,
according to part-owner Perc
Galea.

Asked to comment on the
move today Cummings said,
"I still own a share in Sticks
And Stones but apparently
the manager can stipulate who
is the trainer".

A three-year-old colt,
Sticks And Stones is raced by
a syndicate and Perc Galea is
the manager.

Galea arranged the stable
change with Smith, and the
controversial colt Count
Mayo will also leave
Cummings.

However, another trainer
has not been found for Count
Mayo yet.

Count Mayo is part-owned
Fix this textby Galea and Ferd Calvin,
who was disqualified with
jockcy Peter Cuddihy for 12
months over the running of
the colt at Randwick on
March 13.

Calvin and Cuddihy have
appealed to the Equity Court.

- Canberra Times 29 April 1976


Offline tontonan

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« 2019-Jan-06, 03:06 PM Reply #3686 »


26 Dec 1975 Canberra Times Formguide

Cummings only trained the colt for one preparation : Autumn 1976.  By the end of April he transferred to Smith,
« Last Edit: 2019-Jan-06, 03:07 PM by tontonan »

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Jan-06, 03:09 PM Reply #3687 »
The race I saw Sticks And Stones break the Randwick 1200m track record happened on the 27th December 1976. He ran 1.08.7 -  a time equalled by Ubetido (Ray Guy trained Harry Lawton syndicate horse) on 8/10/80 - sourced from a 1992 Race Book.

Obviously the records stood for a long time.

In the Canberra Times form guide for that day he is described as being a highly promising sprinter having his second start for a new stable (TJ Smith).



Offline tontonan

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« 2019-Jan-06, 03:12 PM Reply #3688 »
If he was originally trained by John Nicholls rather than 'S.Nicholls' as per the Canberra Times form guide, would that then be the same John Nicholls that took Strawberry Road overseas in 1984 ?


Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Jan-06, 03:19 PM Reply #3689 »
I see the late Ferd Calvin mentioned above. Met him in either 1980 or 1981 when he was a patient at the old Prince Henry Hospital in Sydney and pretty sure it was for a heart bypass operation.

Recognized the name and had a brief chat to him about breeding - my mother's side of the family coming from Scone we knew a few people in common.

Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2019-Jan-06, 03:28 PM Reply #3690 »
So I take it his first trainer was J Nichols his second Bart and third TJ.

I also take it whoever wrote the the Canberra Times formguide  was a mug  with his "racing out of his depth" comment.

Offline tontonan

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« 2019-Jan-06, 05:12 PM Reply #3691 »
It is never wise to underestimate a first start maiden winner but Sticks was only having his second start on the back of a low grade Canterbury win on debut and he was up against the 3YO St Louis Blue (Silver Slipper winner) Hydahban, who had won the Stan Fox in the Spring, Canonbury Stakes winner Dizzy Spell and King's Favourite who would win 2 editions of The Shorts before he was finished. Sticks and Stones was certainly stepping up a rung or two...or three.

Just as an aside, in the same form guide was the field for the Christmas Stakes at Cheltenham.  The field contained Idolou, Scamanda, King's Helmet, Superior Air and Buzette  - 4 Group 1 winners and a 'blue hen'.  Adelaide racing was very good in the 1970's even without Cummings and Hayes.

Offline tontonan

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« 2019-Jan-06, 05:17 PM Reply #3692 »
By the way I think you can take it was John Nicholls.  I find repeated references to J.Nicholls as a trainer in Sydney between 1974 and 1976 but only one reference to S.Nicholls.  I imagine it was a typo.

Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2019-Jan-06, 07:06 PM Reply #3693 »
Thanks chaps  :noteworthy:   :noteworthy:


Offline JWesleyHarding

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« 2019-Feb-25, 12:47 PM Reply #3694 »
Why are there no Vic meetings on many Mondays?

Offline ianb

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« 2019-Feb-25, 01:38 PM Reply #3695 »
They run the country  meeting which would have been on Monday on a Wednesday during summer. The Wednesday metropolitan meeting then becomes a twilight meeting.

RVL probably say they are looking after the participants by giving them one day off for the week. I really think it's a deliberate ploy to boost their wagering on what would be an inconsequent Monday meeting. By having it it on at the same time as Metropolitan meetings in Brisbane and Sydney, their turnover has no doubt increased on the meeting.

The races are  only 30 minutes apart and start fairly early. Unfortunately it makes a very long day for  punters betting on Sydney and Brisbane races who wish also to go through to the end of the Melbourne card.

Offline Dave

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« 2019-Mar-05, 01:01 PM Reply #3696 »
Pretty sure his first name is Sid.....Nichols, from memory only so could be wrong but he wasn't to be confused with John Nichols, 2 different trainers, doubt they were even related

Online Colinjohn

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« 2019-Mar-05, 04:03 PM Reply #3697 »
From memory I think Sid Nicholls had stables at Mascot and was John Nicholls father. Sid Nicholls trained Charlemagne who won The1970 Corinthian Hcp ridden by Hong Kong tailor Alan Tang. Charlemagne  was second to Tails in The1970 Metropolitan Hcp and last in that years Caulfield Cup.

Offline arthur

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« 2019-Mar-12, 01:10 PM Reply #3698 »
Back to Q's . .

Is any body else having problems with R&S today?  :confused1:

Online specialweek2

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« 2019-Mar-12, 01:28 PM Reply #3699 »
Back to Q's . .

Is any body else having problems with R&S today?  :confused1:
A
No, Arthur.


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