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Online Jeunes

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« 2022-Jun-07, 09:58 PM Reply #225 »
Good point Wily but other than Dustin and a couple of others, the glory days are behind them.

The fact is that many of the youngsters are not switching so in a few years, it will be like a Seniors Tour or a Middle Aged Tour. Other than a few exceptions most players win their majors in their 20s and 30s.

Offline wily ole dog

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« 2022-Jun-08, 05:08 PM Reply #226 »
Jeunes I think you’ll find  plenty of young blokes will switch soon. They’re holding their fire to see how the forerunners are treated.
Why bust your  arse on the PGA tour or the Korn Ferry tour for bugger all money. Last place this week will earn more than anyone ranked from 50 to 300 in the world .
They can set themselves up for life

Online Jeunes

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« 2022-Jun-08, 07:35 PM Reply #227 »
I think the biggest for youngsters switching to Norman is the viability. They might be scared of being burnt if it folds in a few years.

Money will talk and you will have the good players coming over in next few years if they see some of lesser ranked players. However will it happen this year or next will be most the interesting aspect.

Offline Arsenal

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« 2022-Jun-10, 06:13 PM Reply #228 »
By Joel Beall
June 09, 2022

GOLF DIGEST

LIV Golf’s attempt to disrupt the sport has been nothing short of a reality show, and if you’ve ever watched a reality show you know they are entertaining, bewitching and speak to an inner craving that we’re ashamed of admitting. LIV Golf seemed right out of Bravo central casting. Melodrama! Self-sabotage! Unintentional comedy! Shady business deals! People who seem like nightmares! It was a guilty pleasure, mostly because it existed merely in the abstract. Of course the undeniable truth about reality shows is there’s not much “real” about them. LIV Golf? In spite of its trappings—perhaps in spite of itself—LIV Golf has proved over the past nine days it is very real, and its evolution from a concept to something concrete has massive consequences. And none of them seem good for golf.

It’s too early to validate LIV’s aspirations to “reinvigorate” the sport, particularly given the motives behind them. But the enterprise can’t be dismissed, much as the PGA Tour wishes to do so. Not after LIV’s coup of signing Dustin Johnson and in-their-prime stars like Bryson DeChambeau and Patrick Reed. Not with a number of other players about to follow suit or weighing a similar jump. Not with LIV’s endless mountain of gold that would put Scrooge McDuck to shame. The operation has brought the game to the once-unthinkable precipice of a schism at the professional level.


That’s an important delineation, “schism.” Competition in any business is healthy. It can usher positive change and spur innovation and force the entities in question to be better because that is what is required to survive. Schisms … schisms can be terminal. Any doubters only need to look at the dystopian wasteland that boxing has become.

RELATED: What you need to know about LIV Golf

LIV Golf CEO Greg Norman has said he does not want a schism; he envisions LIV to be additive to the sport. Norman is also rolling out a field in London this week that, with a few notable exceptions, is composed of has-beens and never-wases competing for ungodly sums of money under the misguided notion that it will somehow help a maligned government sportswash its image. How that is additive to the sport, how that is interesting to golf fans, remains unclear. In a related note, tickets remain widely available.

If that’s all that LIV Golf could be this wouldn’t be a discussion. Theoretically it could help the PGA Tour and DP World Tour, cleansing them of those stuck in the purgatory between relevance and the Champions circuit and making way for fledgling stars. But for all that it hasn’t been, LIV has shown just enough of what it could be—and the chaos it could impel—and that’s the problem.

There’s the problem of the disruptor in question, the series being funded by the Saudi Arabian government, for it is driving this discussion and its direction seems aimless. Perhaps the issue begins with the vehicle itself. There is a fundamental fault with the competition that LIV Golf is creating, and for a second put aside the problematic strings to this venture and focus on that competition. At its heart, golf is appreciated for being the purest rendition of meritocracy, where spots aren’t given and you only make what you earn. LIV Golf is the antithesis of this spirit. It offers signing bonuses and no-cut guaranteed paydays to players most fans would not pay to see. Aside from the general curiosity surrounding its Thursday debut and a better-than-expected production, the LIV Golf presentation had no appeal. There was nothing on the line, no reason for these guys to be playing aside from the chance to line their pockets no matter how they finish. It is a glorified exhibition, a televised member-guest, and nothing more.

Norman and the LIV Golf team also seem incapable of taking a step forward without stepping on their own foot. LIV Golf’s entire existence has been marked by incompetence and parody, a sentiment encapsulated by this week’s London event. There was the drama of a reporter tossed out of a press conference; schadenfreude at the series’ logos that appeared lifted from a kindergarten classroom; bewilderment at the appearance of Phil Mickelson, who ended his months-long sabbatical, showing up to a draft party in stubble and an all-leather ensemble that can only be described as mid-life crisis mixed with Top Gun cosplay. James Piot, who is a professional, is listed as an amateur while Hudson Swafford was listed as Swafford Hudson on the LIV website. The drawing party accidentally revealed “Patrick Reed” on the board a day before reports of Reed joining LIV trickled out. Comical as these missteps can be, they are less comical when understanding these knuckleheads can alter the fate of the sport.

No doubt, LIV Golf will move forward and potentially grow. Players will see other players—many who are lower than themselves on the sport's hierarchy—having the Brinks truck backed up for playing in a handful of events and think, "Yeah, I'd like some of that." And they could, for LIV Golf has blank checks and a forever runway to take flight, and is willing to take others down in order for it to rise.

Which brings us to the problem facing the PGA Tour, and make no mistake, it is bad. This is simply the first wave of defectors, especially if the majors don't stand in solidarity with the tour. The money is too tempting and where that money comes from has not been a deterrent to a contingent of golfers. How do you sell your product to fans, telling them this is worth their time, when the very players who populated the tour are saying the opposite?

This should serve as an intervention for the tour. It bet hard on legacy and lost. By its own popularity rankings, the No. 2, No. 5 and No. 7 players in its Player Impact Program have left. Or, framed in another light, the tour gifted Mickelson, DeChambeau and Johnson a collective $12.5 million to incentivize them to stay … and were trumped by roughly $400 million from LIV Golf. That’s not including Bubba Watson, who finished 10th in the PIP and was accidentally featured in a LIV promotional video Thursday morning amid rumors he, too, is leaving. There are bigger purses, bigger bonus pools, bigger FedEx Cup bonanzas coming to the tour, but they don’t have the resources to engage in an arms race, and legacy won’t be enough.


This moment should force a hard look in the mirror to those at PGA Tour headquarters. The reason rogue leagues were fun thought exercises is because the tour has fallen into stasis. The product has become oversaturated with too many events and at times it seems allergic to creativity. Older, rank-and-file players continue to receive priority over Korn Ferry Tour up-and-comers when it comes to exemptions and field alternate lists. It insists on selling the importance of the playoffs, and the moment you have to explain why you matter is the moment you prove the opposite. On Thursday, the tour suspended those who defected yet the announcement was muted and most of those who made the jump had already resigned.

RELATED: The tour's complicated relationship with Bryson DeChambeau

Worse, the tour does not control its destiny. That lies with the major championships, championships that some fans and players believe are the only things that matter. Yes, the tour is what introduces golf’s characters, giving them depth and backstory and interest and more importantly a stage. But, for the most part, LIV can offer the same stage. Sources have told Golf Digest there is a general unity behind the scenes between the tour and the other governing bodies. Still, it’s not the job of Augusta National, the USGA, the R&A and PGA of America to clean up this mess, and that the tour is beholden to them to succeed should be a wake-up call. If tour officials don’t take this moment to take a serious analysis of the product it’s presenting, they are just as much a threat to themselves as LIV Golf is to them.

Which is why, ultimately, a potential schism inflicts the most pain on fans. This has become a sideshow with the worst type of actors, and as bad as the play has been, where it could lead is worse. Now fans’ attention will be divided between an entity that doesn’t know what it’s doing and doesn’t offer much in the way of competition yet does boast some marquee names, against the traditional power with true competition and true consequences that could lose the very stars needed to pull people in. Forget additive; that is the very definition of subtraction. It is a diluted product.


And a product that now raises a question of morality. Fans tune into sports to forget about the real world. Instead, LIV Golf brings the real world issues front and center, funded by a government accused of human-rights atrocities. Worse, fans are watching a considerable amount of stars they follow willing to barter their goodwill to be a puppet for a regime that couldn't care less about the sport they allegedly love.

That sounds mawkish, and professional sports has long revealed its dark sides. Conversely, sports remain one of the few forums with the ability to bring this ever-divided culture together. In our neck of the woods, that is golf. One of the things that holds our attention are the players in the arena, and when you invest as much time and emotion as being a fan requires it’s understandable to develop certain feelings towards them. To see that love means nothing can breach even the most hardened of hearts.

So, yes, this is all a train wreck. Sorry, we meant reality show. Whatever it is, it is no good.

ENDS

The money is too good for them to stick with the Tour Gordon Gecko Greed is Good  :thumbsd:


FORE :beer:



Online Jeunes

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« 2022-Jun-10, 07:16 PM Reply #229 »
The issue is not the money and never will be in the long term. It depends on control. If the PGA and other international tours held firm plus the major organisers, this will be almost like a Middle Aged / Seniors Tour.

However with the players allowed to play in the most of the majors, it will see a steady influx of quality players over time. We all know Saudis have deep pockets so they can afford quite a few years of setting up before clamping down on the sign on fees etc.  Deuchambeau and Reed have signed on too according to reports.

If you get a few of the top 10 players jumping on in next two years, some of the lesser PGA Tour events will be finished and the PGA tour will have to get a compromise.

I personally only watch the majors these days but if the LIV came to Australia, I would pay to watch some of the golfers at the course. That should be the next battle stage for Liv, take it around to countries like Australia, Japan etc

Offline wily ole dog

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« 2022-Jun-10, 08:42 PM Reply #230 »
LIV is aligned with theAsian tour. It will be good for the golf world in the long run

Why should the Americans dictate golf to the world  :bulb:

The above article that Arsey posted is a lot of shite as well
« Last Edit: 2022-Jun-10, 08:44 PM by wily ole dog »

Online Jeunes

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« 2022-Jun-10, 08:54 PM Reply #231 »
Wily, I would behind any tour that brings a decent range of players to Australia.

A long time ago, we went to a few of the Greg Norman and Aust Open tournaments. I was lucky enough to get autographs of Nicklaus, Norman, Olazabel, Price, Faldo, Elkington etc. They were quite decent with fans. Faldo, Monty and Norman signed the old TAB tickets too.    :lol:  

« Last Edit: 2022-Jun-10, 09:38 PM by Jeunes »

Offline Arsenal

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« 2022-Jun-10, 09:27 PM Reply #232 »
Of Course it's the money  ....what else is there ?...but what's in it for the Saudis ...any ideas ..respect ..human rights abuses forgotten......I'm listening . :sad:

Phil is reported to have signed up for $200m
FORE :beer:
« Last Edit: 2022-Jun-10, 10:35 PM by Arsenal »

Offline Arsenal

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« 2022-Jun-10, 10:37 PM Reply #233 »

While some of the lesser-known players landed atop the leaderboard on Thursday, the two biggest stars of the tournament were among the handful of players to finish under par. Both Phil Mickelson and Dustin Johnson dropped their scores to 1 under par by the end of the day despite both enduring difficulties on the course.

Mickelson was the more consistent of the two golfers. He had a couple of wayward drives and wasn't sharp with his putter early, but as the day went on, he played better and better. As such, he is just four strokes off the lead and is one of the tour's nine players under par.

Johnson is as well, and while he carded the same score as Mickelson, he was a bit less consistent. His driver was hit-or-miss on the day and he had a couple of uninspiring approach shots. Still, he battled to get under par late and is positioned to make a run toward the top of the leaderboard on Friday and Saturday.

Neither Mickelson nor Johnson was the best scorer of their three-person grouping. That was Scott Vincent, who finished 3 under and tied for third with Khongwatmai.

The Sporting News tracked Round 1 of the LIV Golf London event. Below are the highlights from the action as well as the results for Mickelson and Johnson.

MO Phil Mickelson explains why he entered LIV Golf, broke from PGA Tour

LIV Golf London leaderboard 2022
Charl Schwartzel is the leader of LIV Golf London after Round 1. He is one of nine players under par, all of whom are listed below.

Rank   Player   Score
1   Charl Schwartzel   -5
2   Hennie Du Plessis   -4
T3   Phachara Khongwatmai   -3
T3   Scott Vincent   -3
T5   Branden Grace   -2
T5   Justin Harding   -2
T7   Phil Mickelson   -1
T7   Dustin Johnson   -1
T7   Sam Horsfield   -1

FORE  :beer:




Offline wily ole dog

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« 2022-Jun-11, 08:18 AM Reply #234 »
Of Course it's the money  ....what else is there ?...but what's in it for the Saudis ...any ideas ..respect ..human rights abuses forgotten......I'm listening . :sad:

Phil is reported to have signed up for $200m
FORE :beer:


Arsey, I’m not sure “what’s in it for the Saudi” they clearly have some plan but does it really matter what they’re “trying to achieve “?

Online nemisis

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« 2022-Jun-11, 09:11 AM Reply #235 »
Of Course it's the money  ....what else is there ?...but what's in it for the Saudis ...any ideas ..respect ..human rights abuses forgotten......I'm listening . :sad:

Phil is reported to have signed up for $200m
FORE :beer:

Good on you Arsenal.....how well said.

I used to be a huge fan of Greg Norman....long, long time ago!
Only ever watched if he was playing.
Felt sorry for him with "the great white fish finger" label.
What a "say and do anything for money", fish finger he in fact always was!

Online Jeunes

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« 2022-Jun-11, 11:11 AM Reply #236 »
The Saudis are using the LIV to get influence and promote their interests. The golfers are in it for the money.

There is now an interesting twist and if the European Tour agrees to let the LIV players to join the Tour to earn ranking points, PGA Tour will be severely affected as they will lose more players.

The LIV players can still play in the majors however they only qualify for the majors based on ranking points. If they cannot play in the PGA or European Tour, they will lose ranking points over time and not be able to play in the majors.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/golf/liv-golf-2022-dustin-johnson-requests-to-play-in-dp-world-tour-pga-tour-phil-mickelson-bryson-dechambeau-video/news-story/b1cd4dafd355b78fc4ff82a0da6dbaaa

Offline wily ole dog

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« 2022-Jun-13, 03:41 PM Reply #237 »
Great effort by the girl👏

Linn Grant has become the first female to player to win an event in the 50-year history of golf's European tour -- officially now known as the DP World Tour.

The 22-year-old Swede dominated a field of both male and female golfers at the Scandinavian Mixed event on Sunday, winning by nine strokes after an 8-under 64 in the final round at Halmstad Golf Club

It is the second staging of a tournament that started with 78 men and 78 women in the field, playing the same course -- albeit off different tees -- for one prize fund and one trophy.

Offline Arsenal

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« 2022-Jun-14, 07:04 PM Reply #238 »
No ‘free riders’
PGA won’t budge on rebels


PGA Tour commissioner Jay Monahan has defended his decision to ban players on the Saudi-backed LIV Golf series, vowing rebel players could not expect to “free ride” off loyal members.

In his first public comments since the tour announced suspensions for 17 current or former PGA Tour players for their participation in LIV Golf, Monahan said the bans were necessary to protect the interests of the tour.

“It’s been an unfortunate week that was created by some unfortunate decisions,” Monahan said with CBS on the sidelines of the Canadian Open.

“It’s my job to protect, defend and celebrate our loyal PGA Tour members, our ­partners and our fans and that’s exactly what I did.”

Players who have opted to join the lucrative Saudi-backed series in defiance of the PGA Tour regulations currently have no pathway back to the tour’s events.

Asked why LIV golfers simply could not be allowed to play on both circuits, Monahan replied: “I would answer the question by asking a question.

And that is, why do they need us so badly? “Those players have chosen to sign multi-year, lucrative contracts to play in a series of exhibition matches against the same players, over and over again.” Monahan contrasted that with Sunday’s climax to the RBC Canadian Open, where Rory McIlroy was topping the leaderboard in a gripping final round.

“The best players in the world are here, with millions of fans watching,” Monahan said.

“In this game it’s true, pure competition that creates the profile and the presence of the world’s greatest players.

“And that’s why they need us, that’s what we do.

“We’re not going to allow players to free ride off our loyal members, the best players in the world.”

Monahan would not be drawn on whether the players suspended by the PGA Tour could ever return to the circuit.

FORE :beer:


Offline timw

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« 2022-Jun-14, 07:23 PM Reply #239 »
The USA is a strange beast.  They insist on the right to carry automatic weapons but are scared of golf clubs. 

Cheers

Offline wily ole dog

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« 2022-Jun-14, 07:50 PM Reply #240 »
Anyone who grew up loving Australian golf from the 60 to the late  90s knows that the PGA Tour absolutely screwed Australian golf.

They can go  :censored:  themselves and cry me a river now that someone is challenging them🤮

Offline timw

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« 2022-Jun-21, 07:22 PM Reply #241 »
Morack golf driving range (east of Melbourne) is to close for 18 months from the end of the month.  The local council is spending $12 million to rebuild the pro shop / café and the driving range and add a mini golf course all to make it more family friendly.  No money is being spent on the 18 hole course.  As the car park is now at close to capacity whenever I go there any extra business will require on street parking.  Waste of $12m of ratepayers money in my opinion.

That is the third driving range in Melbourne to close in the last year. Bulleen driving range will be converted to sports ovals to replace sporting fields lost to the new North East Link freeway. (I heard a rumour the guy who owned Bulleen driving range couldn't find replacement land to build a new facility.  And the 9 hole private golf course just about 400m south of Bulleen Driving Range has been sold for residential development. ) 

Bundoora driving range is closing so the land can be used for a soccer academy.

And lets not forget that Northcote's 9 hole public course is to be remodelled to allow for more public open space which might destroy a good public course. 

On the bright side the 18 hole public course in Balwyn North, being remodelled after 4 hectares of land was taken for the North East Link freeway, is expected to re-open later this year.  The old greens were better than quite a few private courses I have played on so I hope the new greens are just as good.

Cheers

Online Jeunes

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« 2022-Jun-22, 04:50 AM Reply #242 »
More and more are joining LIV league. The interesting aspect for the future will be the awarding of World Ranking points for the events as it is a 54 hole tournament. I wish they will hold an event in Australia. It will be good to see some quality golfers.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/golf/golf-news-2022-brooks-koepka-abraham-ancer-join-liv-golf-series-rankings-top20-players-join-rebel-league-pga-tour/news-story/7673e75179129bf8d5e2b14abeeb7a7f

Offline wily ole dog

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« 2022-Jun-22, 08:36 AM Reply #243 »
Jeunes as I’ve said to a few people of late, the hypocrisy of those opposing thebLIV tour is astounding

Offline wily ole dog

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« 2022-Jun-25, 10:43 AM Reply #244 »
After my diabolical round yesterday it was wonderful to tune in today and see Rory on the 12th.

I implore any golfers with Foxtel to watch it👐

Add the 13 & 15th as well😱
« Last Edit: 2022-Jun-25, 11:01 AM by wily ole dog »

Online Jeunes

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« 2022-Jun-25, 02:04 PM Reply #245 »
European tour imposing fines on some LIV players. It means the players won’t get an exemption and it could cost them world ranking points which will affect their ability to play majors.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/golf/pga-tour-2022-golf-news-liv-golf-players-banned-fined-by-dp-world-tour-european-tour-open-championship-scottish-open/news-story/d58abf9678887fb7484ed27c57592471


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