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Offline Bubbasmith

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« 2019-Apr-16, 04:14 PM Reply #25 »
Another Letter to the Editor in this morning's press..

ISRAEL Folau is accused of homophobia for preaching a Bible verse (1 Corinthians 6:9-10) that warns homosexuals will go to hell.

That verse also includes fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, slanderers and liars. If Folau is homophobic for speaking that way about homosexuals, then he must also be forniphobic, idolaphobic, adulterphobic, thiefaphobic, greedaphobic, drunkaphobic, slanderphobic and liarphobic.

Why is there no outcry on behalf of these people? Don’t they have feelings too? Is this discrimination against fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, slanderers and liars?

Or is this Folauaphobia?

Dennis Prince, Aspendale Gardens

Offline Bubbasmith

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« 2019-Apr-18, 08:45 AM Reply #26 »
Listening to ABC Radio National this morning their sport's reporter related to Israel Folau's sacking was due to his homophobic comments. I might be wrong but since when referring to fornicators, idolaters, adulterers ,thieves, the greedy, drunkards , slanders or liars in a derogatory manner ever being homophobic ?

Does that sport's reporter believe only homosexuals were offended ?  ;)

Offline sobig

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« 2019-Apr-18, 01:45 PM Reply #27 »
I think the main  reason the homophobic nature is highlighted is that the warning given to Folau last year was in response to a comment about homosexuals

going to hell and bot about the other "sinners".


Offline firezuki

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« 2019-Apr-18, 01:51 PM Reply #28 »
I sensed the level of debate would bottom out when the taxi driver from the west put in his "farthings " worth.


I just love the hypocrisy of it.  Like Joyce from Qantas threatening to withdraw sponsorship.


This is the same Qantas that does business with Middle Eastern airlines in whose countries homosexuals are murdered.


The virtue-signalling never stops unless it might cost a buck.


But then you probably can't understand this level of debate Gunbower, being the dipshit you are. 

Offline firezuki

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« 2019-Apr-18, 02:14 PM Reply #29 »
Bernie get it.





Posted By Bernard Gaynor on Wednesday, April 17, 2019


This is Raelene Castle.






And even though she looks like she’s auditioning for the lead role in a Hollywood blockbuster in which a transgender woman and a radical lesbian feminist find common ground through gentle and tender comedy while raising awareness about the threat of climate change as they travel across America on a stolen electric scooter with an incel hitchhiker named Jason, she’s actually not.


Instead, she’s a great leader. See:






Like all great leaders, Raelene Castle has principles and she sticks to them. She says what she means. For instance, just a couple of days ago she said this:


Rugby is a sport that continuously works to unite people, regardless of their race, religion, gender or sexuality. All people are welcome to be part of the rugby family.


This great leader uttered these words at the end of a press conference in which she announced that Israel Folau would be sacked for his Christian views on sexuality. Also see:






Obviously, when the Great Leader Raelene Castle said that rugby welcomed all people, she did not mean Christians. Indeed, she probably doesn’t even think that Christians are human. So why would they be welcome in Raelene’s castle?


If you are a grown up and all of this is doing your head in, don’t worry, I’m here to help.


There are eight things you need to know about this Israel Folau kerfuffle.


Let me list all the other ways that Raelene Castle is a great leader and Rugby Australia is not imploding and taking down the last edifice of freedom in this nation with it.


1. Raelene Castle is destroying Australian rugby


Rugby Australia decided to axe the Western Force in 2017 to save $6 million a year. And this decision was made even after Andrew Forrest offered to stump up $50 million from his personal piggy bank to keep the team alive.


And now it seems highly likely that Rugby Australia will be forced to pay out Israel Folau’s $4 million contract (the ink on it is still wet), foot the bill for Raelene Castle’s extraordinary leadership at $815,255 per year and stump up for the legal costs of this saga as well. That’s likely to add up to a tad more than $6 million.


Guess what? It would have been cheaper for Rugby Australia to let Israel Folau have his say and keep the Western Force alive.


But that hasn’t happened.


So now guess what? On the eve of the Rugby World Cup, Rugby Australia has gone to war with its star player and sent a message to all the other Israel Folaus chasing the ball around that they are not wanted either.


Given only half the Australian side are Pacific Islanders and the kids of this community are basically keeping junior rugby alive, it’s a good thing that Raelene Castle is such a brilliant boss that she understands Pacific Islanders have a strongly held belief in the separation of church and the footy field.


2. Rugby union in general has gone nuts


Bear with me because this is so weird that you couldn’t make it up, even if you were partying with Karmichael Hunt (we’ll get to that later).


There’s a rugby team in New Zealand called the Canterbury Crusaders. And even though they had nothing to do with the Christchurch terrorist attack they’re considering a name change anyway because to keep it would be Islamophobic.


And on the other side of the world, there’s another rugby team based in London named the Saracens.


The saracens spread Islam at the point of a sword throughout the Middle East, across North Africa and into Europe, including the Sharia law bit justifying the execution of homosexuals. The crusaders attempted to free the Holy Land from saracen control and jihadis are still miffed about this, hence the umpteen thousand Islamic terrorist attacks across the globe.


But the Saracens rugby club are not changing their name again, presumably, because it would be Islamophobic to do so.


There’s a bloke who plays for the Saracens by the name of Billy Vuniploa. And he has earnt himself a formal warning for daring to agree with Israel Folau. He didn’t mention hell but he did state that men were meant for women.


So, in general terms, it’s ok for a rugby team to be named after the saracens who used force to spread the belief that homosexuals should be executed but it’s not ok for a person to play in this team if they believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. And it’s definitely not ok for a rugby team to be named after the crusaders, who fought the saracens.


And somewhere in all of this is Sonny Bill Williams, the high profile Kiwi player who converted to Islam, quotes from the Koran on his Twitter page and who converses on social media with a mufti who once said:


“gays are worse than animals”


Like the Exalted One Raelene Castle said, rugby welcomes all people – even the ones who think the other ones are not human.


Perhaps if Israel Folau was Muslim, Raelene Castle would have gone with him to visit a mosque after he expressed his views. But he isn’t, so that didn’t happen.


3. The other Kiwi lady joins in


Raelene Castle isn’t the only Kiwi woman swinging handbags at Israel Folau.


New Zealand Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, stated that she disagreed with Israel Folau before adding that this was a matter for Australia. At least she knows her boundaries.


Those who can remember back to, oh, the end of March, will know that Jasinta Ahern donned a hijab, broadcast the Islamic call to prayer across the length and breadth of the nation she leads and then personally expressed her acknowledgement that Mohammad is Allah’s prophet. In Arabic.






And those who can remember back to, oh, point number two will know that this is the same ‘prophet’ who decreed that homosexuals should be executed.


Luckily, it seems that Jemima Astern has been decreed a great leader in the mould of Raelene Castle. Otherwise people might think that she has no idea what she’s doing.


4. Israel is a very naughty boy


To add some perspective to Israel Folau’s crimes, ponder this:


Todd Carney urinated in his own mouth and went on to play Super League in Europe.


Wayne Carey had an affair with his then-captain and former best friend’s wife before being picked up by the Adelaide Crows. He is a regular face of football broadcasts today.


Steve Smith, David Warner and Cameron Bancroft blatantly cheated during a cricket test against South Africa, using sandpaper to alter the condition of the ball. All three are now eligible to represent this nation again.


And Karmichael Hunt was arrested for drug use. He’s now playing rugby for the NSW Waratahs – the same team that Israel Folau can no longer train with.


Clearly, Israel Folau’s call for virtue is an affront to Australian sport. Tumbleweeds would be rolling across the stadiums if you had to be a good person, rather than a good sportsman, to earn the big bucks.


If Israel Folau had got blotto last weekend and set fire to a school for disabled kids it would be lumped in the ho-hum section of sporting scandals on page 47 of the local rag.


If Folau had run stark naked through Bill Shorten’s latest press conference and was unlucky enough to get the sack, Peter Beattie would be on the phone to his manager in an instant.


But because Folau said it was wrong to get drunk, the Head Honcho of the National Rugby League has slammed the door shut. Given Peter Beattie has his hands full dealing with the habitual indiscretions of the ‘professionals’ in the ‘industry’ he runs, he should win the Virtue Signaller of the Millennium Award for that effort.


5. The anti-Christian witch hunt is on break for Easter


This is probably the best part of this entire saga.


Rugby Australia wants to sack Israel Folau for his Christian views but it can’t do it yet because there needs to be a kangaroo court first.


And it can’t hold that because everyone at Rugby Australia is about to go on holidays to commemorate the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, which still happens to be a public holiday in our heathen land.


It’s called Easter.


6. It will be interesting if this goes to court


Personally, I hope this goes to court.


Because that’s when affidavits will be sworn and witnesses will take the stand. And our legal system, in its zeal for the facts, will allow people to swear on the Bible that what they say is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help them God.


This would be the same Bible that Israel Folau quoted from.


The same Bible that Raelene Castle says is so offensive that merely quoting from it should see one cast, weeping and gnashing their teeth, into the exterior darkness.


The same Bible that our governors-general and prime ministers have taken their oaths of office on.


Basically, Raelene Castle is not just at war with Christianity. She’s such an impressive figure that she’s decided to take down our entire civilisation as well.


7. Lies, lies, lies


At the heart of this farce is a single, massive lie.


Raelene Castle claims the decision to sack Israel Folau has nothing to do with his religious views. See:


“This is not a religious discussion this is a discussion around the employee-employer relationship and the values and contractual arrangements within that agreement. That’s the basis on which we’ve served him a breach notice.”


Just for the record, here is Israel Folau’s post:






This post mentions ‘Jesus’. It says repent. It quotes from the Bible. And it lists a bunch of people that pretty much the entire world has always accepted are destined for hell unless some form of remedial action is taken.


As far as religious things go, Israel Folau’s post is about as high on the scale as you can get without stepping foot inside a church on Sunday.


But if you believe this has nothing to do with religion, then you’ll also believe that the Bledisloe Cup has nothing to do with sport and is merely an international business meeting between representatives of Australia and New Zealand to decide the geographical location of a disputed historical artefact.


The deceitful arrogance of people like Raelene Castle, quite frankly, does my head in.


She knows full well this is about Christianity. And she is leading the charge to destroy religious freedom for Christians in Australia. And, just like all the others of her ilk, she is so tremendous that she cannot bring herself to say what she is actually doing.


8. The Gaystapo has been unleashed


In late 2017, Australia was warned that homosexual marriage would result in the loss of religious freedom for Christians.


And this is exactly what has happened.


It has now been deemed unacceptable to represent this nation if you accept that homosexual acts are immoral. As Miranda Devine reminded us earlier this week, the CEO of Qantas, Alan Joyce, boasted during the homosexual marriage campaign that:


If you’re unhappy with a company that’s involved with the campaign you won’t be able to bank and you won’t be able to fly anywhere.


And now it seems that you won’t be able to play sport either.


Joyce and his cronies are intent on using the financial power of big business to turn us into political and religious slaves.


It should be noted that the drunks have not called for Folau’s head. Nor have the fornicators or adulterers, the thieves or the liars. And the atheists and idolators are silent.


Hell, Folau has even criticised the teachings of the Catholic Church. But Catholics don’t want him sacked for that.


It is only the homosexuals who have demanded a sacrifice. This mob are drunk on power and by their actions over the past week they have shown themselves to be the real bigots, the real purveyors of intolerance and the real threat to unity and freedom in this nation.


The LGBT activists have taken up arms this week claiming that Israel Folau is free to say what he likes but not free from the ‘consequences’ – which include losing his job. This is another lie in the free speech debate.


Unless Folau is free to state his Christian views, he does not have religious freedom. It is becoming painfully obvious that these activists want a world in which Christians cannot speak at all.


If action is not taken swiftly to repeal the anti-discrimination laws that empower this assault on the freedom of Christians (especially through their implementation in workplace HR policies), Folau will not be the last Australian thrown to lions. And in the future the punishment will be considerably more painful than not being able to play rugby for Australia.


Folau can probably afford some time off. The average punter will lose his house if he can’t keep up his mortgage payments.


Australian Christians stand on the threshold of a dark age.


And the real point of the Folau saga is this: Christianity is so unprepared for this attack that a man who plays a game for a living is doing a better job of defending Christian beliefs than the bishops.


If we are to defend ourselves, this had better change, especially as Bill Shorten may well be Prime Minister in a matter of weeks. And he supports the action taken against Israel Folau, despite promising all Australians that he would protect religious freedom…

Offline gunbower

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« 2019-Apr-18, 04:04 PM Reply #30 »
"Dipshit " hey. Get your face out of the mirror and try and get a fare or two before the UBER men give you plenty of free time.

Offline firezuki

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« 2019-Apr-19, 03:58 PM Reply #31 »
Uber, dikhead, have been operating in Perth for years.


I've still got every single one of my regular customers - around 50 or so.


So you can stick Uber up your ar$e. 


And anything else you fancy. 

Offline firezuki

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« 2019-Apr-19, 04:40 PM Reply #32 »

I wrote this story in The Australian newspaper regarding Rugby Australia's plan to sack Israel Folau:


The so-called Israel Folau affair, if we dismantle the humbug, can be summed up quite simply.


If the young man is not free to state his religious views, let alone Christian views, then we are all in trouble.


It would be helpful if people analysed what he said before condemning him to rugby oblivion.


He issued a warning to “drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists, idolaters, hell awaits you, repent, only Jesus saves”.


“Jesus Christ loves you and has given you time to turn away from your sin and come to him.”


For this he faces, it appears, the termination of his playing career.


Of course, the fools who run Australian Rugby, and I use the word advisedly, because on so many other fronts, they have proven their foolishness — are preaching breach of contract while at the same time demonstrably being in breach of their own procedures.


Before proclaiming Folau’s guilt, one would have thought he is entitled to the deliberation of a tribunal. And perhaps, just perhaps, Israel might be given a chance to defend himself.


No, none of that. We have read that his contract is to be ripped up and he will never play again.


And in an edict reminiscent of a Romanian or Soviet dictator, he has been banned from joining his teammates in training and is not welcome at team functions.


As former federal MP Wilson Tuckey wrote at the weekend, “In the days of the Roman Empire, to stand up in public to espouse your Christianity was most likely to result in a trip to the Colosseum for a brief meeting with a couple of hungry lions for the entertainment of the masses. The Israel Folau case indicates that little has changed in today’s ‘progressive empire’.’’


Those arguing for the prosecution of the young man preach about terms of his contract and the “values of the game”. If the “values” of the game involve censorship or, what’s worse, termination for articulating Christian values that are as old as Christianity itself, then it is Rugby Australia that needs to change not Folau.


Of course, Rugby Australia wants to parade as guardians of morality yet this has got nothing to do with morality and everything to do with money.


Qantas presumably has threatened to pull its sponsorship. It has played this game before. The Qantas CEO Alan Joyce has tried this on in the past.


He is entitled to his view even though, apparently, Israel is not. But surely he cannot appropriate his view to the whole Qantas family. Alan Joyce apparently does not agree with Israel, but there are thousands in the Qantas family who do not agree with Alan Joyce.


Israel Folau is from a devoutly religious Polynesian family. He has not sought to impose his views on anybody. He has merely repeated, as one correspondent wrote at the weekend, “what his religion has held for thousands of years. Whether you choose to believe it is up to you. And if you don’t, then probably you don’t believe in hell either. I suspect that had Folau been a Muslim stating exactly the same religious beliefs that, in the unlikely event he was dismissed, it would have led to calls of Islamophobia”.


We have come to the turning point in a long road.


This has been going on for too long and the whingers, the whiners and the self-appointed victims have tried to shut people up on a variety of fronts.


They have not succeeded in shutting up Israel Folau so the demand is for punishment, banishment and termination.


It’s interesting that the drunks and the liars and the thieves and the fornicators and the atheists are not complaining. Those who are, are the ones who expect tolerance towards themselves and their views but won’t extend that tolerance to others.


And let’s face it. People who differ in their views from Israel Folau, and there are many, have the same opportunity as he has to put their views on social media; and are free to criticise him. But they don’t want that. ­Minorities know that in today’s world you can shut anyone up if you complain and whinge loudly enough.


Here is a young man, a dedicated Christian expressing a legitimate view based on biblical teaching and he has been made a pariah.


Put simply, Christians around the world are under siege. It appears that sanctions of the most draconian kind are now being imposed on Christians here who dare to proclaim their faith.


It is interesting to note that ­Israel’s post was “liked” by several of his teammates.


Consistency has never been the long suit of the discredited ­administrators of Australian rugby. But if they are to be consistent here, they surely must sack his teammates.


But there are a lot of Pacific ­island players around the world, also deeply religious, who support Israel Folau.


Is not Qantas in partnership with a national airline whose government imposes laws infinitely more damaging to homosexuals than Israel’s utterance of his biblical beliefs?


But without the Qantas money, I hear it argued, rugby goes broke and Israel has destroyed the game.


This is fanciful nonsense.


Rugby Australia has proven unable to adequately manage the game and its finances to such an extent that it now has to go cap in hand to Qantas and, shamefully, do its bidding.


What is the old saying? We’ll jump, just tell us how high.


Interestingly, the federal government recently appointed an eminent former High Court judge, Robert French, to investigate the denial of free speech in universities.


Among other things, French argued that the perception of a free speech crisis is enough to create a chilling effect on the flow of ideas.


In a 300-page report, the former High Court chief justice recommends that universities adopt a model code that states that staff and students have a right to enjoy freedom of speech.


Rugby Australia should adopt a similar model code and be done with the hypocrites who demand tolerance and approval which they won’t extend to others.


Not for the first time, Israel Folau has shown a rare degree of moral courage.


It is in this, even beyond his rugby skills, that the example lies for young people who have been his supporters. Rugby has joined a battle in the minds of the vast ­majority of the rugby public that it cannot win.


Alan Jones. 


THE END


Brilliantly argued. 

Offline gunbower

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« 2019-Apr-19, 05:00 PM Reply #33 »
When you start quoting " Ironbar  "Tuckey and the man who seemed obsessed with toilet blocks in the UK you realize why the dunce from the West has such a limited vocabulary. There is simply no one home. He is operating in a vacuum. Not capable of one original thought.

Offline ratsack

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« 2019-Apr-19, 08:34 PM Reply #34 »
have never been a FZ fan but he nails it here with his blatant  PLAGIARISM .

your post emphasizes his post .

don't attack their point of view .

simple really


what are your thoughts on this issue ?

Online Jeunes

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« 2019-Apr-19, 10:40 PM Reply #35 »
Anyone is entitled to free speech, however if you are an employee of an organisation that is inclusive of others, then it becomes an hotbed of massive proportions.

An organisation is entitled to have their employees follow their missions and values. If the employees disagree, then they can go and find another job.

This is the Folau case. If the ARU did not have a clause regarding their values etc that is a legal issue if they dismiss Folau.

Most organisations have their own set of values and beliefs. Take a closer look at Fairfax and News Corp. I challenge anyone who believes in the rights of free speech over employer rights to find how many pro Liberal compared to pro Labor articles in a News Corp article or the reverse in Fairfax.

Do we honestly expect those two media companies to hire a majority of journalists who won’t identify with  their readership? Of course not.

The ARU is worried about sponsors and their supporters etc as do the media organisations. Folau could resign and promote his views but then would he have the same audience if he was a Wallaby?

Offline firezuki

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« 2019-Apr-20, 03:17 AM Reply #36 »
I noticed you dodged the Qantas bit. 


I guarantee you that if Folau was Muslim this would have been ignored. 


But being Christian means he's fair game.  The only thing they must regret is he isn't white. 


have never been a FZ fan but he nails it here with his blatant  PLAGIARISM .

your post emphasizes his post .

don't attack their point of view .

simple really


what are your thoughts on this issue ?


I don't quite know what to make of this post. 


You appear to be accusing me of plagiarism which is ridiculous.


I have simply repeated columns that stated my case better than I could and cited the source.   :chin:


If you are saying you shouldn't shoot the messenger but debate the content then you should know


that the Left never do.  They are incabable. 


Any time Alan Jones is mentioned so is a toilet block.  Ignore what he is actually saying because it's much easier


to smear the bloke and by that, his argument.


I get 'taxi driver' but it's the same thing.  When I see 'taxi' mentioned, I know the idiot has already lost the argument.


He thinks he insults me!   lol


What he should be worried about is that a cabbie runs rings around him when it comes to debate. 


If being a taxi driver means I must be stupid, then how fkn stupid must that prick be?
« Last Edit: 2019-Apr-20, 03:20 AM by firezuki »

Offline firezuki

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« 2019-Apr-20, 04:11 AM Reply #37 »





All three are excellent.

Online Jeunes

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« 2019-Apr-20, 10:19 AM Reply #38 »
I noticed you dodged the Qantas bit. 


I guarantee you that if Folau was Muslim this would have been ignored. 


But being Christian means he's fair game.  The only thing they must regret is he isn't white. 




The fact is if Folau is a Muslim or Christian is irrelevant. I don't care about that. Freedom of speech is a big thing but I work for an employer too who is image conscious. By choosing to work for them, I have to ensure my expressed views are consistent with the values of the company. That's the difference between most employees and Folau.

If I was Joyce or any company was sponsoring the Wallabies, of course, they would care. It is economic sense. Look what happened with Tiger when he got caught for his dalliances, some sponsors jumped off quickly regardless of his image previously. If you are spending big bucks sponsoring, then you want to make sure your product is associated with a clean image. if anyone thinks otherwise, they are either deluded or living in a fantasy world.

Have a look at the NRL suspending players who have been charged even though it has not reached trial stage. Why, because the actions of the players are causing them to lose revenue and sponsorship. They will probably lose in court but at least they are trying.

Do I agree with them bringing back players after criminal or deplorable behaviour? The same argument could be asked why Racing allowed Oliver back after he placed a bet against his own horse.  I am a believer there should be mandatory penalties and sports people only should be allowed back if they can demonstrate they have been rehabilitated. I doubt if Racing, AFL or NRL will agree to that especially with the attitudes of certain codes towards drug testing etc.

FZ, if you believe in free speech over employment obligations, you should join a union and fight for that. They do need fresh blood, the way they are declining at the moment.

Alan Joyce and Alan Jones have a lot in common other than their initials. Both men are of considerable intellect and are trying to push their agenda. They make valid points without addressing other points of view as they are appealing to their core supporters.

People should not confuse Free Speech and obligations of an employee.

Offline wily ole dog

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« 2019-Apr-20, 11:28 AM Reply #39 »
I agree that Falou should not have said anything due to his role as an employee and he should pay the price for his stupidity and disrespect

BUT

Aside from that the outrage has been totally over the top. Especially from the likes of Joyce.

FZ is right, if it was a Muslim messenger would Joyce be doing the same thing....I doubt it

Further to that, all that Falou said was to repent a whole raft of things not just homosexuality. Frankly I just think it’s Christian bashing from the left and the social media outrage mob who can’t think for themselves

Offline firezuki

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« 2019-Apr-20, 03:24 PM Reply #40 »
And you would be 100% correct. 


Mundine has said some extraordinary things over the years - things that many people find offensive - but the bastard


still fights whenever he likes.  This is the double standard. 


If Mundine still played rugby and said the things he had, it would have been ignored or glossed over. 


Folou is a much easier target.  Christians don't tend to resort to extreme violence when they don't get their way.
« Last Edit: 2019-Apr-20, 03:27 PM by firezuki »

Online Jeunes

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« 2019-Apr-20, 04:51 PM Reply #41 »
Mundine is a prime example of most people don't care about religion when it comes to sports.

Most people want him to get hammered in boxing.  So many wanted Green to win the fights just because Mundine shoots his mouth off. Thus people pay for the privilege.

If you think about it Mundine has starred in League and Boxing. He should be attracting sponsors by the dozens but they shy away due to his image.

Mundine has a right to free speech but sponsors have a right not to support them by sponsoring him as they do with Folau or any organisations associated with him.




Offline firezuki

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« 2019-Apr-20, 05:17 PM Reply #42 »
The glaring difference is that Mundine didn't lose a contract over his religious beliefs.


And you still haven't touched Qantas yet. 

Online Jeunes

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« 2019-Apr-20, 07:53 PM Reply #43 »
FZ, Mundine was never contracted to a RL club when he made the stupid comments about 9/11. Please see below. It cost him a US contract or two.  Boxing is an individual sport as you know and thus the only person he hurts is himself and not a club or state.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Mundine

In regards to the Qantas, I don't see your point. The board appointed Joyce and if they are unhappy with his comments or support for the Wallabies, they need to take it up to him. There is a choice for people now, support the Qantas pressure or travel on another plane. I doubt that as self interest will rule on many of those people who don't like Joyce.

Now FZ, can you please do me the courtesy and answer a question.

Do you think any employee should make any comments against the values of their employer and still expect to be employed by them?

Online Jeunes

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« 2019-Apr-20, 10:53 PM Reply #44 »
An interesting article from News Corp highlighting Folau’s change of views including his support of the Bingham Cup.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/media/what-we-missed-in-rugby-australias-homophobia-scandal/news-story/ebbd4096687736e3c544413a41e780e4

Offline firezuki

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« 2019-Apr-21, 04:45 AM Reply #45 »
FZ, Mundine was never contracted to a RL club when he made the stupid comments about 9/11. Please see below. It cost him a US contract or two.  Boxing is an individual sport as you know and thus the only person he hurts is himself and not a club or state.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Mundine

In regards to the Qantas, I don't see your point. The board appointed Joyce and if they are unhappy with his comments or support for the Wallabies, they need to take it up to him. There is a choice for people now, support the Qantas pressure or travel on another plane. I doubt that as self interest will rule on many of those people who don't like Joyce.

Now FZ, can you please do me the courtesy and answer a question.

Do you think any employee should make any comments against the values of their employer and still expect to be employed by them?


I guess I can answer that question by pasting the following article.  These "values" you speak of seem to shift like sand.





If Only Alan Joyce Knew About Dubai
22nd March 2017 


Roger Franklin
Editor, Quadrant Online




Dear Shaikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum,


We haven’t met so I hope you’ll pardon this note, but as you serve as both the prime minister and president of Dubai I feel obliged to bring a matter of considerable importance to your attention: it is past time to end the criminal sanctions you impose on homosexuals, to stop their harassment by your police and, most important of all, to legalise same-sex marriage in your country. Should you fail to do this, the economic consequences could be severe.


Personally, I couldn’t care one way or the other if two people (or three  or four, for that matter) wish to formalise their relationship in any way they wish, although I’d prefer the state get out of the marriage business entirely and leave that trade to clerics. Civil unions are fine and dandy, with the state at hand to adjudicate contacts and the division of property should a relationship break down. But the taking and administering of sacred vows is probably best left to those with a hotline to Heaven.


The thing is, though, your nation’s attitude in regard to homosexuality might very well jeopardise a vital commercial relationship established in 2015 between Qantas and Emirates, your state-owned airline.


As you may be aware, the Qantas CEO is a jolly little chap, Alan Joyce, who is very keen on seeing our own legal code amended to permit same-sex marriage. Indeed, Mr Joyce takes it so seriously that, only last week, he put his signature to a joint letter by a group of similarly minded business chieftains. In this cause he brought not only his personal view and signature but also, by direct implication, the heft, prestige and prominence of the company he leads.


Well here is the problem. Some 13 of Mr Joyce’s jetliners touch own every day in Dubai, their comings and goings authorised by a formal pact with Emirates. Yet going by the text of that joint letter, Mr Joyce might be inclined to scrap the pact at a moment’s notice, such would be his disgust at your nation’s institutionalised and quite vicious homophobia. The letter states:


In the globally competitive marketplace, customers are becoming more discerning and are selecting products and services from companies that better represent their values. By supporting marriage equality, businesses send a powerful message to their customers that they think fairness, equality and dignity should be available to all


Now Mr Joyce is, as you might be aware, a very smart man. He has done a fine job of turning around the fortunes of Qantas, battled the unions tooth and nail and generally made shareholders very happy. I can only assume he was unaware of Dubai’s vile laws at the time he cut that deal with Emirates. We can be certain that he knows the meaning of the word ‘hypocrisy’, and were he ever to be made aware of the treatment to which he would be subjected should he take up residence in your country, some might well construe his airline’s current association with Emirates as an example of that vice.


Consider this report from a gay Australian, who wrote in November about the perils of queer life in Dubai (as your first language is not English I have taken the liberty of underscoring the most contemptible aspects of your laws):


…for those unlucky enough to fall foul of the law, the consequences are severe.


According to the International Lesbian and Gay Association, consensual gay sex in Dubai is punishable by up to 10 years in prison. Because the mentality here is that gay men need to be deterred from homosexual activity, police raids of clubs and private parties are common. For a time, the authorities even patrolled the plethora of Dubai malls, searching for “obvious” signs of homosexuality.


When unsuspecting gay men are entrapped, the consequences of their sexuality are dependent on their nationality. Foreigners are often put in jail and then eventually deported, locals may have to endure hormone therapy to deal with their “problem”.


Given how Mr Joyce endorsed his fellow CEOs’ observation that “customers are becoming more discerning and are selecting products and services from companies that better represent their values” only one conclusion can be reached: should Mr Joyce ever learn of the way in which your country victimises homosexuals he might well pull Qantas out of its alliance with Emirates.


As his letter also states,


The most effective way for the diversity and inclusion policies to be supported is to exist within a national legal framework that promotes equality for all.


As I said, should Mr Joyce become aware of Dubai’s concerted oppression of homosexuals, consistency of both the moral and marketing varieties would demand that a key commercial relationship must end.


I trust you will act in accordance with common sense, legalise homosexuality, stop shooting up gays with hormones and, above all, legalise the marriage of Mohammad One to Mohammad Two.


Were an Australian reporter ever to bring your homophobic laws to Mr Joyce’s attention, he would have no other choice. After all, what man wants to be known as a hypocrite?


Online Jeunes

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« 2019-Apr-21, 07:17 AM Reply #46 »
Well it seems that Joyce and Folau have a lot in common regarding hypocrisy. But that is hypocrisy based on capitalism. There seems to be a lot of that going around in a free economy and exports.

You must be getting towards your leftist feelings if you are highlighting the trade hypocrisy of our companies. What is going on?

Now FZ, answer my question regarding employee rights and free speech. That is the issue.

Offline firezuki

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« 2019-Apr-21, 04:55 PM Reply #47 »
If I even approach centre an alarm goes off. 


That article merely demonstrates Qantas/Joyce's hypocrisy - nothing to do with capitalism. 


It's about virtue-signalling as usual.  The specialty of the Left.


I believe someone has the right to speak about their beliefs.


That doesn't reflect on the company in any shape or form. 


It's personal. 


And the company knew exactly what they were getting. 

Offline firezuki

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« 2019-Apr-21, 06:00 PM Reply #48 »

Speaking to News Corp after his exit from I’m A Celebrity… Get Me Out Of Here!, the former boxer said “if we were to live in a society, just like in Aboriginal culture, that homosexuality is forbidden and you do it and the consequences are capital punishment or death, you think you are going to do it? Or think twice about doing it?”


When pushed on whether he meant really gay people should be executed for their sexuality, Mundine said he was “mainly” referring to paedophiles.


Hang them suckers and let’s see if they have the balls to do it again,” Mundine said.


But wait Jeunes!


What is this in today's very paper???


Mundine reboots
by Phil Rothfield


Mundine is about to make a comeback in rugby league for the Matraville Tigers!


How can this be?  Surely there is a contract involved? 


Hate to gloat but I get it right every single time. 

Online Jeunes

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« 2019-Apr-21, 06:25 PM Reply #49 »
FZ, you may need to do some research in where Matraville Tigers are in the Rugby League world.

Stop ducking my question or I am going to call you an unionist.


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