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Chris Waller - Trainer - Racehorse TALK

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Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-02, 12:14 PM Reply #350 »
I was at the races on Saturday and the wind factor has to be taken into account. Nearly all the leaders collapsed including Redzel. It was very windy and it was an excellent tail wind but horses were running into it before the straight.

Waller would be annoyed with Fiesta and D’Argento losing in photos as most including me at the track thought the jockeys went too early especially after the early races.

Unfortunately Waller and Weir have too many runners in races.

Thank you for being fair and applying this criticism to Darren Weir as well.

You get the impression people are singling out Waller. Why? Not too sure but the same people are constantly whinging about Racing NSW, The TAB and Peter V'Landys - very rarely anything Victorian.  :nowink:

I do not think Waller "gives his horses a run".  With the odd exception of a sprinter or a Winx, they generally take a few runs to get fit and then they will improve several lengths (see a similar pattern in Weir middle distance/stayers).

They always seem to improve to a similar peak as the previous campaign.

As for Egg Tart she has been a disappointment post 3YO.

The theory that Gai Waterhouse is getting less winners than she used to because Chris Waller is sending pacemakers out to kill any chance her leaders sounds conspiracy at best.

I'd want to see the replays of five specific examples before even considering this. Shouldn't be too hard to knock up a list if it is the reason Gai trains 50 less winners a year.

Chris Waller and Darren Weir are successful because they are good trainers and they probably have the best staff.

Any trainer will tell you that good trackwork riders are a key to the success of a stable. They would have access to the best vets because of the volume of stock.

And both trainers seem to specialize in 1600m and more in which there is a gap in trainer talent IMO. My take on it is that both have always identified gaps in racing and filled business opportunities accordingly. They are both clever business men.

Chris Waller was one of the pioneers of importing stayers (after Lloyd) and a great deal to his success is due to this. In fact after he started doing it they are all doing it now.


Offline HarmersHaven

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« 2018-Oct-02, 01:18 PM Reply #351 »

Chris Waller and Darren Weir are successful because they are good trainers and they probably have the best staff.



Damn auto-correct!

Online ianb

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« 2018-Oct-02, 02:24 PM Reply #352 »
Thank you for being fair and applying this criticism to Darren Weir as well.

You get the impression people are singling out Waller. Why? Not too sure but the same people are constantly whinging about Racing NSW, The TAB and Peter V'Landys - very rarely anything Victorian.  :nowink:

I do not think Waller "gives his horses a run".  With the odd exception of a sprinter or a Winx, they generally take a few runs to get fit and then they will improve several lengths (see a similar pattern in Weir middle distance/stayers).

They always seem to improve to a similar peak as the previous campaign.

As for Egg Tart she has been a disappointment post 3YO.

The theory that Gai Waterhouse is getting less winners than she used to because Chris Waller is sending pacemakers out to kill any chance her leaders sounds conspiracy at best.

I'd want to see the replays of five specific examples before even considering this. Shouldn't be too hard to knock up a list if it is the reason Gai trains 50 less winners a year.

Chris Waller and Darren Weir are successful because they are good trainers and they probably have the best staff.

Any trainer will tell you that good trackwork riders are a key to the success of a stable. They would have access to the best vets because of the volume of stock.

And both trainers seem to specialize in 1600m and more in which there is a gap in trainer talent IMO. My take on it is that both have always identified gaps in racing and filled business opportunities accordingly. They are both clever business men.

Chris Waller was one of the pioneers of importing stayers (after Lloyd) and a great deal to his success is due to this. In fact after he started doing it they are all doing it now.
Without going into too much detail try Arbeitsam and Tom Melbourne in the Epsom. Sure Waller didn't win but Tom Melbourne sure brought about the undoing of Arbeitsam. I could go back and research other races but just watch what happens to Castel Sant'angelo in the first at Warwick Farm tomorrow- assuming Waller's 3 horses start.

As for Waller and Weir  I suspect that it  it is no coincidence that very few other trainers in Australia have ever been fined for giving their horses lasix.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-02, 03:32 PM Reply #353 »
Without going into too much detail try Arbeitsam and Tom Melbourne in the Epsom. Sure Waller didn't win but Tom Melbourne sure brought about the undoing of Arbeitsam. I could go back and research other races but just watch what happens to Castel Sant'angelo in the first at Warwick Farm tomorrow- assuming Waller's 3 horses start.

As for Waller and Weir  I suspect that it  it is no coincidence that very few other trainers in Australia have ever been fined for giving their horses lasix.

Tom Melbourne drew out in Alison Road. They were either go back or forward. And the race was trifectad by 3 of the best horses going around so it is dubious he would have placed anyway. He is no Hartnell. He is no D'Argento or Unforgotten.

Any other examples apart from a future one?

So now on top of the accusation of "group riding" you now add the serious allegation that he and Darren Weir are drug cheats.

Any other unproven libelous conspiracy theories we can throw at them while we are at it :what:

Offline Authorized

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« 2018-Oct-02, 03:34 PM Reply #354 »
Tom Melbourne drew out in Alison Road. They were either go back or forward. And the race was trifectad by 3 of the best horses going around so it is dubious he would have placed anyway. He is no Hartnell. He is no D'Argento or Unforgotten.

Any other examples apart from a future one?

So now on top of the accusation of "group riding" you now add the serious allegation that he and Darren Weir are drug cheats.

Any other unproven libelous conspiracy theories we can throw at them while we are at it :what:

Apparently Lasix is used quite often. Apart from bleeding in the US We all know it is a masking agent and should be banned 100% of the time.


Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-02, 03:43 PM Reply #355 »
Apparently Lasix is used quite often. Apart from bleeding in the US We all know it is a masking agent and should be banned 100% of the time.

Bleeds, or exercise induced pulmonary hemorrhages (EIPH), affect the majority of horses during intense exercise, and Lasix is often used to reduce or prevent bleeds. Lasix (or furosemide) is a potent loop diuretic that increases urine production and urinary frequency

https://www.equinehealthlabs.com/lasix-and-blood-viscosity

It's primary use is NOT as a masking agent. If you ban Lasix altogether we will have more deaths of horses on the training and race tracks.

How we go from the use of Lasix to Drug Cheat is typical of social media.

You don't have to have one skerrick of evidence but it doesn't seem to matter any more.

Just blurt out anonymously on the internet the first thing that is in your head. No need for proof or fact checking.

Which horses of Chris Waller's or Darren Weir's do people "suspect" of being drugged when they won a race? Is there any supporting evidence?


Offline nemisis

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« 2018-Oct-02, 04:28 PM Reply #356 »
Are you for real PP7?

Google Junoob 2014 Metropolitan.

I'm sure most racing people were very surprised how much of the stuff he uses.

Diuretics are excellent masking agents.

Online ianb

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« 2018-Oct-02, 04:30 PM Reply #357 »
I was about to name Junoob as well.

This is when we all became aware of what Waller was using.

Waller was fined $ 30 000 and the race was awarded to the second horse which incidentally was also a Waller horse.

If lasix is not performance enhancing why would Aiden O'Brian have So You Think race on it for his one start in America?

Offline nemisis

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« 2018-Oct-02, 06:35 PM Reply #358 »
While you have your search engine up and running PP7 google up Darren Weir and Jarrod McClean tubing.

Caught red handed and couldn't get their stories right.

If you have a bit of sympathy to hand out  give it to the honest guys who have to compete against this crap.

Trainers like Grahame Begg who is one of racing good guys yet lost his good horse Land Of Plenty because he is not seen as a  'winning enough' trainer.

Anyone out there really believe that G Begg doesn't know how to get a racehorse properly fit? 


Offline Peter Mair

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« 2018-Oct-02, 09:45 PM Reply #359 »

Apparently inexplicable

On a serious note,

It is now bordering on 'remarkable' that the best, by far, horses in recent years have been mares running on into their 6 and 7yro seasons -- md, sunline, b caviar and now wx.

........... is there a legitimate 'treatment' explanation for this sequence?

[Written By or Written Off -- unlike his father Neville, I do not believe that GB has any open admirers but may well have some secret admirers................. just ask Daniel Ganderton.............. about Benetta.]


Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-02, 10:05 PM Reply #360 »

If lasix is not performance enhancing why would Aiden O'Brian have So You Think race on it for his one start in America?

Physiologically, how does Lasix improve performance??

Do you know much about horse anatomy and physiology? You are an expert perhaps? If so please share this with us.

Online ianb

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« 2018-Oct-03, 10:42 AM Reply #361 »
No I am not but I'll bet Aidan O'Brien is.

I repeat if it is not performance enhancing why would O'Brien see fit to give it to So You think for his solitary run in America.

Offline Authorized

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« 2018-Oct-03, 11:02 AM Reply #362 »
Lasix itself is not performance enhancing it is a masking agent ( apparently )

The reason O'Brien uses it when he travels to the US is because his American opposition use it. The old When in Rome.......

Andre Fabre has never used it when he travels to the US.

Online ianb

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« 2018-Oct-03, 03:41 PM Reply #363 »
Getting back to Waller and his multiple runners racing against the Waterhouse horses I got Race1 correct. I'm curious to see what happens in Race 5 where both Waterhouse and Waller have 1 runner each.

Now both runners have led at their previous 2 starts.

I'm tipping that the Waterhouse runner will run along in front and I'll be quite surprised if Waller's horse races in the first 2.

Online ianb

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« 2018-Oct-03, 03:51 PM Reply #364 »
Getting back to Waller and his multiple runners racing against the Waterhouse horses I got Race1 correct. I'm curious to see what happens in Race 5 where both Waterhouse and Waller have 1 runner each.

Now both runners have led at their previous 2 starts.

I'm tipping that the Waterhouse runner will run along in front and I'll be quite surprised if Waller's horse races in the first 2.

Well I might have got Race1 right but I sure didn't get Race5 right.

Waterhouse's horse was last all the way and Waller's horse led and weakened out of it.

Only thing I can say is they didn't cut at each other

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-03, 05:22 PM Reply #365 »
Getting back to Waller and his multiple runners racing against the Waterhouse horses I got Race1 correct.

No you didn't.

The leader Invictus Warrior (Waller) has had only two starts to date and has led in one of them, forward in the other.

He led today.

The thing keeping Gai's horse out three deep is in fact the toppie trained by David Payne.

So there are three leaders early with three different trainers. There is no Waller runner that I can see that is in the leading pack except a horse you would expect to be there.

The decision by Clark to try and lead and get stuck 3 deep early was his own. He eventually gets the one out one back.

His only start he was running 2nd for the trip but faded to 4th in a Newcastle maiden.


Offline nemisis

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« 2018-Oct-03, 10:24 PM Reply #366 »
Getting back to Waller and his multiple runners racing against the Waterhouse horses I got Race1 correct.
 

Very well called ianb

               emthup

Online ianb

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« 2018-Oct-04, 02:24 PM Reply #367 »
No you didn't.

The leader Invictus Warrior (Waller) has had only two starts to date and has led in one of them, forward in the other.

He led today.

The thing keeping Gai's horse out three deep is in fact the toppie trained by David Payne.

So there are three leaders early with three different trainers. There is no Waller runner that I can see that is in the leading pack except a horse you would expect to be there.

The decision by Clark to try and lead and get stuck 3 deep early was his own. He eventually gets the one out one back.

His only start he was running 2nd for the trip but faded to 4th in a Newcastle maiden.

Well that's clearly not right as from  about the 1000M the Waterhouse horse is racing on the outside  of one of Waller's horses in second position.

If the Waterhouse horse isn't much good as I assume you are inferring why was it so short in the market.

And what - you also don't think Clark was under instructions to try to lead?


Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2018-Oct-04, 03:04 PM Reply #368 »
Well that's clearly not right as from  about the 1000M the Waterhouse horse is racing on the outside  of one of Waller's horses in second position.

If the Waterhouse horse isn't much good as I assume you are inferring why was it so short in the market.

And what - you also don't think Clark was under instructions to try to lead?
It is not implausible that Payne, Waterhouse and Waller for Invictus Prince all instructed their riders to lead.

What do you thik Waller said that makes him "guilty"? Can you say that much at least.

Perhaps there is a conspiracy between David Payne and Chris Waller based on your "evidence" to get at victim Gai Waterhouse. You should go to the police and explain it Ian.

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Offline Jeunes

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« 2018-Oct-06, 03:41 PM Reply #369 »
Another G1 win for Waller with Winx. He is moving up the ranks. He is 11 short of a 100.

Oher than Winx winning a 4th Cox Plate, I do think he has some depth. The question is can they win G1 too.


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