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Darren Smith - Trainer - Racehorse TALK

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Offline tontonan

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« 2015-Mar-20, 11:02 PM Reply #50 »
15 years is a fair and considered penalty. 

He has form.  He was plainly using cobalt chloride for performance enhancement in multiple instances and he deserves a serious penalty.

On the other hand he has been tried without a specific rule in place, and is the first trainer tried for cobalt abuse at a time when everyone was still coming to terms with what it is and what it does, and that he has been fairly up front about it throughout the investigation augurs against anything like a life ban. 

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Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2015-Mar-21, 02:17 AM Reply #51 »
I think it is a bit harsh.

15 years. FFS. They don't give murderers that.

Surely 5 years would have got the message across.

Offline Lert

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« 2015-Mar-21, 07:10 AM Reply #52 »
I think it is a bit harsh.

15 years. FFS. They don't give murderers that.

Surely 5 years would have got the message across.
He hasn't been sent to gaol for 15 years; just told he can't train race horses for 15 years.
The guy is a serial offender who has demonstrated over and over again that he has no concern for the rules of racing or for the welfare of his horses.
He is a cheat and a grub that is happy to destroy the reputation of the industry for personal greed.
I think he got off very light.
I would have banned him for life.

Offline Arsenal

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« 2015-Mar-21, 07:35 AM Reply #53 »
NEWCASTLE trainer Darren Smith will appeal his 15-year disqualification handed down by Racing NSW stewards on Friday.  
  
The case dubbed “landmark” sees Smith become the first trainer in Australia to be sentenced for cobalt use. His lawyer Paul O’Sullivan presented submissions to the panel chaired by chief steward Ray Murrihy.

“It took a scientific ‘expert’ from Racing NSW two cracks at it to define what the threshold should be for cobalt in racehorses,” O’Sullivan said. “And you’re telling us Mr Smith should’ve known nearly 12 months earlier what that answer was.

“What education did Racing NSW provide trainers on this issue — none.”

Smith had nine drug-related offences dating back to 1989 coming into Friday’s sentencing.

“There’s not a record in NSW like that,” Murrihy said.

O’Sullivan wanted stewards to take into account Smith had not been training since May last year and requested that be his penalty. It was denied, but stewards did agree that Smith’s time should start from when he ceased saddling up horses.

He is free to resume training on May 30, 2029.

“I tried to hand the stewards $200 and an appeal application but they didn’t take it,” O’Sullivan said. “We’ll take this all the way. Gai Waterhouse has tested these guys 12 times and never lost. There’s so many flaws in their case.

“Ray Murrihy sat with Terry Bailey (Racing Victoria) on February 24, 2014 at a National Stewards Conference and the issue of cobalt was raised.

“Victoria acted upon the issue and Racing NSW did nothing.

“As a result of that Darren Smith finds himself in a vacuum, where no laws apply but he’s been found guilty.”

Last year, Racing Victoria chose to implement a 200mg/litre cobalt rule that didn’t apply in NSW until the start of 2015.

This remains the backbone of Smith’s case.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/well-take-this-all-the-way-darren-smiths-lawyer-vows-to-fight-trainers-15-year-ban-for-cobalt-doping/story-fn67vr4w-1227271206071


It boils down to a legal issue.......was the treatment prohibited at the time it was detected......Smith's case in a nutshell is it wasn't.

Smith is a serial offender and even if successful as his brief seems confident of RNSW could refuse to re-license him should he apply .

Murrihy on the other hand relied on existing rules which have been mentioned previously and which I'll identify when I find them .

Giddy Up

http://www.racingnsw.com.au/site/_content/document/00001301-source.pdf

Stewards reasons for decision relying on relevant AR rules AR178B(1) and AR 177B(2) (1)
« Last Edit: 2015-Mar-21, 07:43 AM by Arsenal »

Offline Lert

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« 2015-Mar-21, 08:13 AM Reply #54 »
This whole defence sounds like a crock of the proverbial with Smith's lawyer trying to make out that Smith has been charged with something that had not yet been banned when he used it.

Smith was not charged with breaching the 200microgm/l threshhold for Cobalt.
He was not charged under the rules specifically targetted at Cobalt.

It is difficult for drug agencies to keep on top of the cheats because chemistry is such a complex discipline and drugs can be endlessly modified.
If drug agencies ban drug X, then chemists quickly modify drug X with a minor and insignificant change to its chemical make up that does not impact on the way it works. However, it is now a different drug, Y, and not banned because it is not X. If the agencies then ban drug Y, the chemists quickly make another minor change and, presto, it is now drug Z and not banned again.

Like most performance sports these days, racing has had to develop drug rules that overcome the above problem.
Like most sports they have adopted the procedure of banning a given drug and all other drugs that emulate the effects of that drug.

Many years ago, in this way, racing banned the use of EPO and all substances that stimulate the natural production of EPO or emulate the effects of EPO.
Smith was using Cobalt for this specific purpose.
This is the rule that Smith was charged under.

All this reference to the subsequent rules specific to Cobalt and the setting of a threshold are so much drivel because they are not the rules he was charged under.

Hopefully, his appeal will be swiftly thrown out and we can get on with pursuing all the other Cobalt cheats.

Offline Authorized

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« 2015-Mar-21, 10:43 AM Reply #55 »
I think it is a bit harsh.

15 years. FFS. They don't give murderers that.

Surely 5 years would have got the message across.

This was one of Robbie Waterhouses idiotic quotes and it is just as idiotic here.

I would think 15 years in prison is a whole lot tougher than 15 years banned from racetracks.


Offline Authorized

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« 2015-Mar-21, 10:50 AM Reply #56 »



It boils down to a legal issue.......was the treatment prohibited at the time it was detected......Smith's case in a nutshell is it wasn't.

Smith is a serial offender and even if successful as his brief seems confident of RNSW could refuse to re-license him should he apply .

Murrihy on the other hand relied on existing rules which have been mentioned previously and which I'll identify when I find them .

Giddy Up

http://www.racingnsw.com.au/site/_content/document/00001301-source.pdf

Stewards reasons for decision relying on relevant AR rules AR178B(1) and AR 177B(2) (1)

In athletic or sport in general under the WADA code if you take anything that is not registered it is considered an illegal substance. ( I am pretty sure I have this right and of course am open to correction )

The same should apply to animal racing of any kind.

If it does not than the rule makers better clean this up.

Also, How long have they been busting people in the Harness industry ?

If nothing else he should be busted for cruelty to animals and the RSPCA step in and act.




Offline Authorized

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« 2015-Mar-21, 10:52 AM Reply #57 »
It is difficult for drug agencies to keep on top of the cheats because chemistry is such a complex discipline and drugs can be endlessly modified.
If drug agencies ban drug X, then chemists quickly modify drug X with a minor and insignificant change to its chemical make up that does not impact on the way it works. However, it is now a different drug, Y, and not banned because it is not X. If the agencies then ban drug Y, the chemists quickly make another minor change and, presto, it is now drug Z and not banned again.

As I stated above, I think you will find drug sports drug agencies get around this by banning anything that has not been registered.


Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2015-Mar-21, 10:58 AM Reply #58 »
As I stated above, I think you will find drug sports drug agencies get around this by banning anything that has not been registered.


Or in the case of ASADA and Cronulla, they get around this (and the lack of a positive swab) by leaking false facts to selected mates in the media. Works every time when you read idiotic comments from the naive public like "they should be banned for life"  ;)

Offline Authorized

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« 2015-Mar-21, 11:01 AM Reply #59 »
Hopefully, his appeal will be swiftly thrown out and we can get on with pursuing all the other Cobalt cheats.

The other cobalt cheats will in my opinion and rightfully will get no more than a hefty fine.

None of them will be found guilty of knowingly taking a horse to the races with an illegal substance in the system.


Offline Authorized

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« 2015-Mar-21, 11:03 AM Reply #60 »
Or in the case of ASADA and Cronulla, they get around this (and the lack of a positive swab) by leaking false facts to selected mates in the media. Works every time when you read idiotic comments from the naive public like "they should be banned for life"  ;)

Cronulla and its players got off very lightly. There fans should be ashamed of them not standing up for them.

Flanagan should have got life plus 20 years.

Offline MagiC~*

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« 2015-Mar-21, 11:07 AM Reply #61 »
The other cobalt cheats will in my opinion and rightfully will get no more than a hefty fine.

None of them will be found guilty of knowingly taking a horse to the races with an illegal substance in the system.



Any trainer with an elevated cobalt reading, did send their horse to the races knowingly with an illegal substance in their system.

There is no way to not knowingly send a horse to the races with an elevated cobalt reading.

Just because they may have been using V.A.M. / hipiron and such, doesn't mean they were not deliberately trying to raise the horse cobalt levels.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2015-Mar-21, 11:28 AM Reply #62 »
Cronulla and its players got off very lightly.


Did they?  :/


Offline Authorized

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« 2015-Mar-21, 11:34 AM Reply #63 »
Did they?  :/



Just what was there punishment ?

It was tantamount to nothing.

Offline bronx

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« 2015-Mar-21, 11:49 AM Reply #64 »
Just what was there punishment ?

It was tantamount to nothing.

Only served out the OFF season as a penalty.
Thats a joke in itself.

Wonder if these COBALT trainers can take an early guilty please like in NRL they will get off lightly.
But most are repeat offenders. So will have a heap of carryover points.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2015-Mar-21, 12:26 PM Reply #65 »
Only served out the OFF season as a penalty.
Thats a joke in itself.


And the reason they were given a joke penalty is because the NRL and ASADA knew if it went to court they had no case and would have lost badly. As I was saying at the time (and being ridiculed for it), there were no positive swabs. Short of a confession (e.g. Sandor Earle), the positive swab is the mandatory minimum evidence required to achieve a conviction. How stupid of ASADA and the NRL to think they could use public opinion via media leaks to circumvent the justice system.

The "joke" penalties were to save face for ASADA and the NRL. And it should be remembered the genesis of this saga was Julia Gillard instructing her sports minister to have the infamous "blackest day in Australian Sport" press conference because the dill thought there was some votes in it.

The result for the club was that they came last after making the eight the previous year. There is no drug problem at the club. Unlike some other clubs, but I note theses clubs get the full support of the NRL. What happened to the high and mighty attitude they were showing to Cronulla?

I can't remember specifically what Paul Gallen said in his tweet, but the NRL and Smith sure deserved it.

Offline Authorized

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« 2015-Mar-21, 12:35 PM Reply #66 »
And the reason they were given a joke penalty is because the NRL and ASADA knew if it went to court they had no case and would have lost badly. As I was saying at the time (and being ridiculed for it), there were no positive swabs. Short of a confession (e.g. Sandor Earle), the positive swab is the mandatory minimum evidence required to achieve a conviction. How stupid of ASADA and the NRL to think they could use public opinion via media leaks to circumvent the justice system.

The "joke" penalties were to save face for ASADA and the NRL. And it should be remembered the genesis of this saga was Julia Gillard instructing her sports minister to have the infamous "blackest day in Australian Sport" press conference because the dill thought there was some votes in it.

The result for the club was that they came last after making the eight the previous year. There is no drug problem at the club. Unlike some other clubs, but I note theses clubs get the full support of the NRL. What happened to the high and mighty attitude they were showing to Cronulla?

I can't remember specifically what Paul Gallen said in his tweet, but the NRL and Smith sure deserved it.

Perhaps Gallen and company should have gone to you for legal council I am pretty sure Gallen wanted to keep his clean name.

 

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2015-Mar-21, 12:40 PM Reply #67 »
Perhaps Gallen and company should have gone to you for legal council I am pretty sure Gallen wanted to keep his clean name.


Gallen has always maintained his innocence.

Do you have any evidence to the contrary? Maybe ASADA, Lundy, Gillard and Smith should have gone to you for legal advice.

Offline Authorized

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« 2015-Mar-21, 12:45 PM Reply #68 »
Gallen has always maintained his innocence.

Do you have any evidence to the contrary? Maybe ASADA, Lundy, Gillard and Smith should have gone to you for legal advice.

The fact he pled guilty is evidence enough for me.

Why didn't he fight it ?


Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2015-Mar-21, 12:52 PM Reply #69 »
The fact he pled guilty is evidence enough for me.

Why didn't he fight it ?


I wish he did. There was pressure from the club for him to put it to rest by "taking the deal", which everyone has noted was a token penalty anyway.

While we are asking questions, why did ASADA offer them an unprecedented deal in the history of world sport's administration? They had to get John Fahey to OK the deal with the international body. Why do you think they did that?


Offline Arsenal

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« Last Edit: 2015-Apr-23, 12:28 PM by Arsenal »

Offline ratsack

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« 2015-Jul-22, 07:43 PM Reply #71 »
Wednesday, 22 July 2015

Racing Appeals Tribunal Decision - Licensed Trainer Darren Smith


A decision has today been handed down dismissing an appeal by licensed trainer Darren Smith to the NSW Racing Appeals Tribunal.

Mr Smith had been found guilty by Racing NSW Stewards of 20 (twenty) counts of breaching AR175(h)(ii); 20 counts of breaching AR178; one count of breaching AR177B(1) and one count of breaching AR177B(6).

Mr Smith's appeal to the Racing NSW Appeal Panel had been dismissed on 15 April 2015.

The tribunal has invited submissions from the parties on penalty and any other orders sought.

The Racing Appeals Tribunal decision will be published as soon as possible.

 COURTISY RACING NSW

and again dismissed 

Offline Arsenal

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« 2015-Aug-17, 06:58 PM Reply #72 »
The NSW Racing Appeals Tribunal has rejected trainer Darren Smith’s appeal against the severity of a 15-year disqualification relating to cobalt use.

On July 22 a decision was handed down dismissing an appeal by Smith to the Tribunal after he was found guilty of administering several of his stable runners with the prohibited substance cobalt.

Following on from that hearing, Smith sought a reduction on his sentence but has been unsuccessful and will serve the original penalty of 15 years.

Goodbye Darren :bye:

Giddy up :beer:


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