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Offline Peter Mair

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« 2020-Jan-02, 12:52 PM Reply #275 »


THE QUESTION PUT -- what do you want RVL to do?


RVL asking for a royal commission to be convened would be a useful start.

........... that won't be happening!

I want RVL to stop grandstanding and open its mind to what it may be doing wrong itself.

RVL is inclined to give loud lip-service to 'policing integrity' while never seeming to understand that its policies on scheduling races and inflating race fields have corrupted the game from the perspective of a fair go for punters and owners.

Having gone on like Jack Horner in a corner, RVL then  imposes harsh penalties without regard for proportionality.

It has been a circus for the past few years -- top trainers just walking away.

Robert Smerdon was never found to have breached the  bi-carb limits over some years -- and no disclosure was made of the findings about the performance of horses topped-up.

Don't worry about 'with any certainty' -- just tell us which horses got a top up and how they performed on the day relative to 'before and 'after'. We can assess the probabilities.

..... in the wash up he has got 'life' when it will soon enough be possible for a horse to be so treated, before-raceday, with a slow release capsule.

Darren Weir was shopped by an insider for having and using 'jiggers' -- 4 years for an 'offence' which is difficult to say either works or causes a horse unreasonable discomfort relative to other options.

........ hopefully any further prosecution of this matter will be defended with testimony to show the effects of 'jiggers' using a AA battery.
 
RVL could also require trainers to disclose the treatment records for horses for 'legal but secret' practices with drugs like lasix  and presumably a few others like 'bute' in between runs. Even feed variations are critical.

........ a royal commission would clarify a few things ...... where is Rowena Orr or Rowena Orr.




Offline Jeunes

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« 2020-Jan-02, 05:29 PM Reply #276 »
Jigger definition below, PM.

https://www.racing.com/news/2019-01-31/news-what-is-a-jigger

If it does not work why would Weir use it? Are you implying PM, he is stupid because he was using something that may not  have worked.

If Weir did not believe it affected his horses, why would he plead guilty or is that gross stupidity too?


Offline Peter Mair

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« 2020-Jan-02, 06:11 PM Reply #277 »


Dimensions of 'stupidity'

Doing anything contrary to the 'rules of racing' is stupid -- as the fate of the outed trainers confirms.

Beyond the obvious, the 'rules of racing' are discretionary -- and open to discretion in terms of them being always observed.

I am no authority on devious ways of training horses -- neither are the bureaucratic administrators so overly protective of the image of racing.

There are issues of 'character' on the table here -- would Smerdon and Weir, prominent and experienced trainers, deliberately treat their horses improperly? -- I do not think so.

Walking away is different to pleading guilty.

Use of a whip in the normal course of training and racing will soon be outlawed -- expert evidence may be interesting to hear on the relative harm caused by whips and jiggers.

.... how about a royal commission to get to the bottom of things?

Offline Jeunes

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« 2020-Jan-02, 06:23 PM Reply #278 »

There are issues of 'character' on the table here -- would Smerdon and Weir, prominent and experienced trainers, deliberately treat their horses improperly? -- I do not think so.


Let me get this right, using your words and I am quoting part of your argument that according to you, if you are prominent and experienced, then you will never commit anything nefarious?

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2020-Jan-02, 08:17 PM Reply #279 »



... about as bright as the wily one

Let me get this right, using your words, and I am quoting part of your argument that according to you, if you are prominent and experienced, then you will never commit anything nefarious?

Prominent trainers, like Weir and Smerdon, are very experienced horsemen -- with a big business to run -- and they run the business professionally, according to their judgement and character.

The idea, that this does not always meet the dictates of bureaucrats at RVL, is no cause for concern in the broad sweep of their achievements.

There are 'crooks' but Weir and Smerdon are not.

It is the stewards that need to get their act together beyond their 'ready, fire, aim' approach to managing fair racing.

Consider the damage being done by paying no-hoper horses to run 10th

.......  those at RVL, chasing bucks, need to reflect that a beam may well be in their eye as they are finding motes in the eyes of others.

A royal commission would get a lot of this crap sorted -- and, as is., the administrators would not survive.


Offline Jeunes

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« 2020-Jan-02, 09:52 PM Reply #280 »


... about as bright as the wily one

Let me get this right, using your words, and I am quoting part of your argument that according to you, if you are prominent and experienced, then you will never commit anything nefarious?

Prominent trainers, like Weir and Smerdon, are very experienced horsemen -- with a big business to run -- and they run the business professionally, according to their judgement and character.

The idea, that this does not always meet the dictates of bureaucrats at RVL, is no cause for concern in the broad sweep of their achievements.

There are 'crooks' but Weir and Smerdon are not.

It is the stewards that need to get their act together beyond their 'ready, fire, aim' approach to managing fair racing.

Consider the damage being done by paying no-hoper horses to run 10th

.......  those at RVL, chasing bucks, need to reflect that a beam may well be in their eye as they are finding motes in the eyes of others.

A royal commission would get a lot of this crap sorted -- and, as is., the administrators would not survive.



So Weir and Smerdon are not crooks in your opinion. In your opinion, you think they are victims.

So tell me PM, would you like to test a jigger on you to see if it has any effects. I attached some links below as you said in the past the evidence is inconclusive. After all who is better to judge impartially than you, the bastion of truth.

https://www.ebay.com.au/b/Cattle-Prod/11751/bn_55212572

I do have a higher opinion of Wily ‘s than your  posts  as he seems  to answer the questions properly.

Offline Arsenal

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« 2020-Jan-03, 10:43 AM Reply #281 »
Aquanita saga: Former trainer to chase retrospective prizemoney
 
By Damien Ractliffe
January 2, 2020 — 3.09pm

Retired trainer Brian Johnston says he'll be chasing the $88,313 cheated out of connections of Zaman by disqualified 2012 Grand National Hurdle-winning trainer Robert Smerdon.

Smerdon unsuccessfully defended 78 of 115 doping-related charges at the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal in September and his lifetime ban from racing was upheld by VCAT deputy president Heather Lambrick on Tuesday.

In its 2018-19 annual report, Racing Victoria wrote: "Stewards will consider whether an application(s) should be made to the relevant body with respect to the disqualification of any particular horse(s).

"The disqualification of any horse(s) may bring rise to a future liability through the upgrading of placings and the consequent payment of revised prizemoney.

"Following a review of the facts and details available as at the date of signing the accounts, Racing Victoria believes that the current allowance for any potential future liability for payment of future revised prizemoney remains appropriate."

Zaman was beaten into second by eight lengths by a drug-fueled Brungle Cry in the $200,000 Sandown race after Smerdon instructed stablehand Greg Nelligan to "top up" the jumper with sodium bicarbonate.

"Mr Nelligan asks Mr Smerdon whether he needs any help today and Mr Smerdon replies a 'top up could help at the end of 3900 in the very heavy...'," Lambrick wrote in her September 13 decision.

"I accept that an actual administration [of Brungle Cry] took place."

Johnston said he would "absolutely" be chasing the $127,563 top prize after his horse's connections took home just $39,250.

"Our son owned about a quarter, I think we had about a quarter. My best mate Mick Loveridge, he might have had 42 or 43 per cent and Peter Sinn, he had seven per cent," Johnston said.
 
Brungle Cry winning the 2012 Grand National Hurdle.Credit:Angela Wylie

"A quarter of $100,000 would be nice. We'd get trainer's percentage too, wouldn't we? Beautiful. I hope it happens mate.
"I'll be on the phone to find out what they're doing."

A number of other high prizemoney races are set to be affected by disqualifications and prizemoney revisions.

After being topped up with performance-enhancing drugs, Shewan won the $210,000 group 2 Herbert Power in 2011, Kirribilli Gold won the $100,000 Australian Hurdle in 2012 and Mosheen won the $221,000 group 2 Blazer Stakes in 2012.

Nick Williams, who owned 2011 Herbert Power runner-up Tanby, said he expected Racing Victoria to make the necessary revisions.

"I'm sure Racing Victoria have taken the appropriate legal advice as can be seen by the provision in the latest set of financial accounts," Williams said.

"I would assume now the matter is finalised legally they will move to amend the results of the affected races."

Affected races range from group 1 spring carnival features to Ararat maidens, dating June 26, 2010 to November 5, 2016, and wouldn't just affect the subsequent placegetter but most runners in each respective field.

Shewan, left, beats Tanby in the 2011 Herbert Power.Credit:Paul Rovere

Politeness finished second in the $1 million group 1 Emirates Stakes in 2015 after being "topped up" and returned $180,000 in prizemoney for her owners.

Connections for third would be entitled a further $90,000 retrospectively, fourth a further $45,000, fifth an extra $20,000, sixth an extra $5000 and ninth - who finished out of the money - would be entitled $20,000 if promoted to eighth.

Australian Bloodstock director Jamie Lovett, whose horse Magic Artist finished fourth for German trainer Andreas Wohler in that race, said he would wait and see how retrospective changes played out rather than actively chase revisions.

Other high profile races include the 2011 Thousand Guineas (Mosheen, second), the 2012 Edward Manifold (Members Joy, second) and the 2015 Darley Classic (Lumosty, fourth).

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/racing/aquanita-saga-former-trainer-to-chase-retrospective-prizemoney-20200102-p53ocp.html

ENDS
 :beer:

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2020-Jan-03, 01:20 PM Reply #282 »


........ send me a jigger and I will tell you if it hurts -- a 'prod' powered by a AA battery is not a cattle prod --and -- if it is not illegal to use a cattle prod in the business of farming it is hardly a capital offence to use a AA battery device on a horse.

As for undoing the result of any race where the swab did not test positive -- the best of Brittish.

Offline Jeunes

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« 2020-Jan-03, 02:13 PM Reply #283 »
Marion Jones did not test positive too but yet got stripped of her gold medals.

So did Lance Armstrong.

Obviously under your methodology PM, we should be giving them the medals and trophies plus apologising for causing inconvenience.

Offline Villa

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« 2020-Mar-25, 04:46 PM Reply #284 »
I’m new to this site (2 days) and can’t believe some of the garbage that gets posted. It’s like some people haven’t a clue about anything they say. To basically state in a comment that Weir and Smerdon wouldn’t cheat is delusional. P.s it makes for entertaining reading. Keep up the great work Peter Mair 😳
« Last Edit: 2020-Mar-25, 04:50 PM by Villa »

Offline Arsenal

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« 2020-Jul-08, 10:02 AM Reply #285 »
Aquanita affair - 81 horses facing disqualification, prizemoney ramifications

Ben Dorries
5:01PM07 July 2020

Racing Victoria has dropped an Aquanita bombshell by declaring 81 horses should be considered for disqualification - with the potential for beaten horses in specific races to be handed extra prizemoney.

Aquanita 'top-ups' ringleader Robert Smerdon will never be allowed to return to Australian racing under a scalding judgement from the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal which last December rejected his appeal against a life ban and a $90,000 fine.

VCAT deputy president Heather Lambrick ruled Smerdon had shown no remorse for his conduct as the major player in the so-called Aquanita raceday treatment affair.

Since the appeals window in the Aquanita case was extinguished on January 30, RV has been considering whether to exercise their powers to disqualify any implicated horses from Smerdon or the other trainers involved.

It is possible more than $2million in prizemoney earnings could be at stake.

They have poured through 395 instances of potential treatment and ruled that:

* A preliminary determination that 81 starters should be considered for disqualification from the race in question based on the finding of an actual administration by VCAT and/or the  available evidence/information, including it being obvious within text messages that the horse was the subject of a prohibited administration at the relevant track on the relevant date;

* A final determination that 313 starters should not be considered for disqualification from the race in question based on a finding by VCAT that  actual administration did not occur on the relevant date or the strength of the available evidence, including it not being obvious within text messages that the specific horse was the subject of a prohibited administration at the relevant track on the relevant date.

One of the horses in the list of 81 is Robert Smerdon galloper Politeness who could be disqualified from her win in the 2015 Group I Myer Classic.

Smerdon's Stradbroke Handicap winner Under The Louvre is also on the list  - with stewards looking at disqualifying the horse from when it ran third in a $120,000 Listed race at Flemington in 2014.

Other big name horses now subject to disqualification from various races include champion jumper Black And Bent, as well as Smerdon's Group I winner Mosheen who stewards are looking to disqualify from finishing second behind Atlantic Jewel in the 2011 Thousand Guineas.

Victorian stewards on Tuesday wrote to the managing owners of the 81 horses impacted horses and provided a show cause notice asking for a response as to why their horses should not be disqualified from the race in question.

They have been asked to show cause by August 10 and following that stewards will assess whether the 81 starters should be disqualified or not.

If horses are disqualified then the placings will be amended accordingly and connections of horses who finished behind the disqualified horse paid the balance of any prizemoney owing based on the amended placings.

"Should the Stewards determine to disqualify a horse, it will then be a matter for the RV Board and/or Chief Executive to determine whether RV exercises its rights under AR 224 and orders that any prizemoney won and paid to the Owner(s), Trainer and/or Jockey of the disqualified horse in the race in question be returned to RV," an RV statement said.

"No determination regarding AR 224 has been made by RV at this time and each case will be considered on its merits."

RV integrity boss Jamie Stier said:  “This is a unique and complex case which required the stewards to consider Tribunal findings and available evidence to them in cases which ultimately saw people disqualified for improper practice not swab samples.

“Having considered all the facts, the Stewards are satisfied that they can clearly identify 81 starters that were the subject of a prohibited administration and thus they have today written to the Managing Owners of these horses at the time of the relevant races, or their representatives, to afford them the opportunity to state why their horse ought not be disqualified from the race in question.

“The Stewards are not satisfied that the other 313 starters ought be considered for disqualification as the available evidence did not definitively demonstrate that those horses were the subject of a prohibited administration on the given day.

“As people are aware, text messages between the disqualified persons were central to the RAD Board and VCAT’s findings regarding the participants’ improper or dishonourable action or practice; however these texts often referred to multiple horses or lacked clarity around which horse was the subject of said practice on a given day.

“Accordingly, while the evidence made it clear that those charged had engaged in unlawful practices, determining which horses were subjected to those practices was not possible in all instances.

“I want to make it clear that in reaching their position the Stewards considered the RAD Board and VCAT’s findings and the available evidence only, and gave no consideration to the status of the race, and/or the prizemoney won by an individual horse, and/or the finishing position of the horse.

“Of the 81 starters for which a preliminary determination has been made that they be considered for disqualification, 24 were winners, 24 were minor placegetters and 33 were unplaced, with the prizemoney won by each varying from $300,000 to none at all. As it stands, more than half of them won less than $10,000 in the race in question.

“In making this announcement, we do not intend to provide commentary on every individual horse and the Stewards’ considerations thereof.

"Beyond today we are committing to inform the industry of the Stewards’ final determination regarding the 81 starters for which the Show Cause Notices have been issued.”

Tuesday's events were the latest dramatic development in the Aquanita affair involving raceday ‘top-ups’ which was originally described by Racing Appeals and Disciplinary Board Chairman Judge John Bowman as one of the darkest chapters in Australian racing history.

Smerdon will never return to racing while fellow trainers Stuart Webb and Tony Vasil last December had their their four and three-year penalties respectively cut to 18 months.

Queensland trainer Liam Birchley, who was initially banned for a year by the Racing Appeals and Disciplinary Board, was successful in overturning his ban.

Here is the list of 81 horses that face potential disqualification.

Horse
   

Date
   

Race No.
   

Track
   

Placing

Ability
   

23-Jul-16
   

9
   

Flemington
   

4

All Well (IRE)
   

24-Apr-17
   

3
   

Ballarat
   

2

Another Girl
   

5-Sep-14
   

4
   

Geelong
   

2

Assertion (NZ)
   

1-Apr-11
   

8
   

Mornington
   

1

Barcode
   

19-Sep-14
   

4
   

Ararat
   

1

Barcode
   

10-Oct-14
   

6
   

Hamilton
   

6

Barcode
   

31-Dec-14
   

7
   

Echuca
   

1

Berisha
   

5-Nov-15
   

2
   

Flemington
   

1

Beyond Pardon
   

26-Jun-10
   

4
   

Flemington
   

2

Beyond Pardon
   

7-Jul-12
   

7
   

Flemington
   

5

Black And Bent
   

14-Aug-11
   

4
   

Sandown
   

1

Black And Bent
   

2-May-12
   

6
   

Warrnambool
   

1

Black Jack Boy
   

7-Feb-14
   

5
   

Moonee Valley
   

3

Brevity
   

25-Nov-14
   

3
   

Moe
   

2

Brouhaha
   

14-Sep-14
   

5
   

Cranbourne
   

1

Brungle Cry
   

15-Jul-12
   

4
   

Sandown
   

1

Bruntwood (NZ)
   

20-Aug-14
   

5
   

Sandown
   

2

Carnegie Dan
   

12-Sep-10
   

7
   

Bendigo
   

13

Celeritas
   

2-Jul-14
   

4
   

Sandown
   

5

Celeritas
   

27-Jul-14
   

7
   

Sandown
   

2

Celeritas
   

20-Aug-14
   

6
   

Sandown
   

1

Crafty
   

12-Jul-14
   

1
   

Flemington
   

1

Crimson Cape (NZ)
   

26-Nov-15
   

8
   

Sale
   

1

Dangerous Breeding
   

1-Jul-16
   

6
   

Pakenham
   

4

Darney Gub
   

6-Apr-15
   

4
   

Sandown
   

5

Dotherighthing (NZ)
   

22-Mar-15
   

7
   

Geelong
   

12

Eclair Flyer
   

2-Apr-11
   

3
   

Moonee Valley
   

1

Electric Fusion
   

30-Nov-13
   

7
   

Caulfield
   

1

Electric Fusion
   

22-Nov-14
   

8
   

Ballarat
   

8

Fareer
   

2-Jun-12
   

3
   

Sandown
   

4

Golden Apollo
   

31-Dec-14
   

4
   

Echuca
   

1

Green Birdie (NZ)
   

6-Nov-12
   

9
   

Flemington
   

16

Institution
   

5-Nov-16
   

1
   

Flemington
   

6

Killara Miss
   

19-Sep-14
   

3
   

Ararat
   

2

Kirribilli Gold
   

2-Jun-12
   

4
   

Sandown
   

1

Last Cash
   

15-May-11
   

5
   

Cranbourne
   

5

Laugh At Life
   

3-May-12
   

2
   

Warrnambool
   

3

Little Tycoon
   

6-Aug-11
   

8
   

Flemington
   

2

Lucky Valentine
   

3-Aug-14
   

9
   

Seymour
   

8

Lumosty
   

11-Oct-14
   

8
   

Caulfield
   

8

Lunacy
   

17-Mar-12
   

5
   

Geelong
   

3

Madaba Flyer
   

27-Jan-12
   

2
   

Moonee Valley
   

11

Maxie's Blue Girl
   

31-Mar-15
   

2
   

Warrnambool
   

5

Members Joy
   

6-Oct-12
   

6
   

Flemington
   

2

Miss Insomnia
   

22-Mar-15
   

8
   

Geelong
   

7

Mission to Mars
   

28-Nov-14
   

2
   

Wodonga
   

6

Mosheen
   

12-Oct-11
   

6
   

Caulfield
   

2

Oceanographer
   

7-Feb-14
   

7
   

Moonee Valley
   

3

Only He Knows (NZ)
   

26-Jun-10
   

7
   

Flemington
   

1

Paddy O'reilly (NZ)
   

23-Apr-11
   

6
   

Caulfield
   

1

Persian Star
   

23-Oct-10
   

7
   

Moonee Valley
   

10

Persian Star
   

6-Nov-10
   

8
   

Flemington
   

3

Politeness
   

1-Nov-14
   

8
   

Flemington
   

7

Politeness
   

31-Oct-15
   

8
   

Flemington
   

1

Property
   

25-Feb-17
   

7
   

Caulfield
   

5

Real Time
   

24-Dec-14
   

5
   

Sale
   

3

Reldas
   

7-Feb-14
   

2
   

Moonee Valley
   

2

Saddler's Story
   

23-Oct-10
   

7
   

Moonee Valley
   

6

Shamal Wind
   

23-Feb-13
   

8
   

Caulfield
   

12

Shamal Wind
   

11-Oct-14
   

10
   

Caulfield
   

3

Shellac
   

9-Apr-15
   

5
   

Seymour
   

4

Shewan
   

8-Oct-11
   

3
   

Caulfield
   

1

Shut the Frontdoor
   

10-Nov-14
   

2
   

Seymour
   

1

Side Splitter
   

13-Jan-12
   

8
   

Moonee Valley
   

1

Six Penny (NZ)
   

24-Apr-17
   

7
   

Ballarat
   

7

Sniper's Bullet
   

6-Nov-10
   

6
   

Flemington
   

8

Spencer Street
   

21-Mar-15
   

1
   

Bendigo
   

7

Spencer Street
   

6-Apr-15
   

9
   

Sandown
   

11

Spinderbella
   

29-Nov-14
   

9
   

Moonee Valley
   

6

Stoneblack
   

12-Oct-11
   

5
   

Caulfield
   

6

Stoneblack
   

7-Jul-12
   

6
   

Flemington
   

13

The Bowler
   

23-Feb-13
   

7
   

Caulfield
   

13

The Bowler
   

21-Mar-15
   

9
   

Bendigo
   

1

The Long Road
   

2-Jun-12
   

8
   

Sandown
   

2

The Long Road
   

21-Jul-12
   

5
   

Flemington
   

1

Under Oath
   

28-Apr-17
   

2
   

Benalla
   

3

Under the Hat
   

21-May-11
   

8
   

Flemington
   

3

Under the Louvre
   

12-Jul-14
   

7
   

Flemington
   

3

Ungrateful Ellen
   

19-Sep-14
   

2
   

Ararat
   

1

Wealthy Lad
   

21-Jan-12
   

5
   

Flemington
   

3

Wealthy Lad
   

3-May-12
   

10
   

Warrnambool
   

3
Related Topics: Aquanita
Ben Dorries
Article Author
ENDS
In other news Stuart Web a former Aquanita trainer has had his application for a license refused .

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/aquanita-trainer-fails-in-bid-to-regain-trainer-s-licence-20200604

Giddy Up :beer:



« Last Edit: 2020-Jul-08, 10:05 AM by Arsenal »

Offline Arsenal

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« 2020-Jul-08, 08:45 PM Reply #286 »
Racenet story on an owners reaction to RV's demand to refund prizemoney ....good luck getting the owners to cough up after all this time ...and a good Samaratan  Alligator Blood owner to the rescue offering a strategy to overturn the rule.

https://www.racenet.com.au/news/no-love-for-racing-victoria-from-aquanita-racing-owner-20200708

 
Ezybonds No 1 • 2 hours ago
🐊🩸🆎 and I have been talking about the effect of these rules on owners. I’m happy to take the lead on this issue. Without owners there is no racing. Period. If you are an owner, email me at aendresz@zukaz.com and I’ll share the legal strategy that will overturn the ridiculous disqualification rule.

More from Leo
Case spelt out to Aquanita owners
LEO SCHLINK
RACING Victoria stewards have used 13 separate categories to classify levels of improper or dishonourable action involving 81 horses facing disqualification as part of the Aquanita doping scandal.

Many of the affected owners of horses prepared by banned trainers Robert Smerdon, Tony Vasil and Stuart Webb sought legal action on Tuesday after receiving letters from RV stewards.

RV’s letter referred to the Victorian Civil Administration Tribunal’s findings against seven racing figures involved in the clandestine doping scheme from 2010-17.

The categories start with a finding of actual administration of a bicarb mix to horses in circumstances where it was “blatantly obvious” which horse was illegally treated.

“Blatantly obvious means that a horse (or horses) were obviously administered on the basis of the language in the text messages,” the letter read.

More than 1000 incriminating text messages extracted from float driver Greg Nelligan’s mobile phone after he was caught “topping up” Lovani at Flemington in October 2017 formed the foundation of the case against the accused.

Some of the most prominent horses listed for potential disqualification include former star filly Mosheen, Myer Classic winner Politeness, Brungle Cry and Black And Bent.

RV has set aside a fund for the redistribution of prizemoney, but it has also warned owners it could seek to have prizemoney repaid under Australian rules of racing 224.
The Herald Sun has been told some of the seven people disqualified over the doping operation no longer have assets in their name, making the possibility of owners successfully suing any of the group for lost prizemoney remote.


The RV letter invites owners “to show cause, in writing, as of the date of the race, why the horse ought not be disqualified from the race”.

It goes on to suggest that they “contemplate the following factors”: WHETHER the horse was treated in breach of rules. WHETHER the treatment or administration of the substance in question is capable of affecting the horse. THE extent of which the conduct is prejudicial to the interest or image or welfare of racing. WHETHER the conduct could have the potential to impact a betting market and/or affect the outcome of a race.

If submissions are late, owners were told “the stewards will make their (own) final determination”.

leo.schlink@news.com.au

Giddy Up :beer:

 
« Last Edit: 2020-Jul-09, 10:45 AM by Arsenal »

Offline nemisis

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« 2020-Jul-09, 10:44 AM Reply #287 »
The most extraordinary thing about all the cheating and defrauding going on at Aquanita, is that for the head honcho, former Mel. Racing club chairman Mike Symons, life just goes on.
Still on Racing.com being introduced as an 'astute professional punter' and giving out his 'tips'. :what:

I'm disappointed in myself for taking so long to understand what language the betting flucs around the Aquanita runners was speaking.
It was the language of an organisation run by a professional punter......it told you everything.
Bit easier to make a living off the punt when you have a number of trainers on your payroll.

Mike certainly would have been proud of Saturday's effort by one of his ex-employees.
I reckon Mike had a good day on Sat.......might be a good time for Racing Victoria to try to get some back  :lol:

https://www.racing.com/news/2017-11-10/symons-i-have-nothing-to-hide

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2020-Jul-09, 08:26 PM Reply #288 »


The buck stops with RVL,


.........having never detected an offense with Aquanita  ...... it is too late ..... years on .......... to unscramble what did and did not happen.

RVL should be the subject of a royal commission ...... when the leading industry players are showing such disrespect ........ or simply walking away ......... there is good reason for up-ending the barrel of apples.

The racing results day-in-and day-out tell a shocking story ..... a global leader gone to the pack ........ no one will look under obvious stones . .........nor take seriously the obligation to find who was in on the rorts.

Offline Arsenal

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« 2020-Jul-10, 09:37 AM Reply #289 »
Top sports lawyer: Aquanita prizemoney claw-back would be a "lawyers' picnic"
 
Article Author
Ben Dorries 8:46AM10 July 2020
 
A leading sports and commercial lawyer says any attempts by Racing Victoria to claw back previously paid prizemoney in the Aquanita case would be a ‘lawyers' picnic’.

He predicts potential prizemoney claw-back attempts could well be hindered or prevented by general law principles.

NSW-based Darren Kane, who holds a Master of Laws specialising in sports law and advises a wide range of sporting clients, says it would be “extraordinary” and could prove futile if RV seeks to grab back prizemoney paid to owners of 81 Aquanita horses that are facing disqualification.

Racehorse owners were this week sent show causes by RV about the likelihood of the disqualification of 81 racehorses arising from the Aquanita ‘top-ups” scandal dating back to 2010.

Australian Racing Rule 224 gives RV and stewards the power, if there are disqualifications, for the prizemoney from disqualified horses “on demand, (to be) be repaid or returned by the recipient to the PRA or Club concerned.”

However Kane says such a move would be a legal minefield and RV would have no guarantee of success.

“It would be a lawyer’s picnic,” Kane told Racenet.
“As to the ambitions of the stewards and Racing Victoria, it could well be the case anyway that the general law provisions relating to statutes of limitations and limitation periods may hinder or prevent the stewards from actually clawing back prizemoney for historic matters.

“The ability or otherwise for the stewards to claw back the prizemoney will be based on a number of matters including the rules of racing – if it is the case that the rules of racing provide no effective statute of limitations, meaning that racing authorities can go back 20 or more years and examine races, then I find that position extraordinary.

“You could draw a line between those sorts of rules and the rules that apply across all sports in doping – it was ten years ago that world sport recognised there needed to be some finality.

“If there is no limitation in the (racing) rules then in my opinion there should be as a matter of fairness and a matter of certainty.

“In world sport now if you find that somebody has doped 12 years ago, say the Beijing Olympics in 2008, and say if you only had the technology now to detect that an athlete had a prohibited substance in their system, it’s too late to bring those charges anymore.”


 Sports and commercial lawyer Darren Kane.

RV has not yet said for sure that it will attempt to claw back prizemoney in regards to potential disqualifications of the Aquanita horses.

It has said it will be a matter for the RV board or chief executive Giles Thompson to determine the prizemoney issue should a horse be disqualified, with no determination made as yet under AR224 and each case considered on its merits.

Several owners have already flagged they do not intend to pay back prizemoney and there is also a massive logistical issue confronting RV.

Some owners of the 81 Aquanita horses concerned have since passed away while many of the horses had large ownership groups which have subsequently disbanded and some of the owners have since walked away from racing.

Another complication is The Herald Sun has reported that some of the seven people disqualified over the top-ups operation no longer have any assets in their name, making the possibility of owners successfully suing any of the group for lost prizemoney remote.

It is also unlikely that former board directors of the now defunct Aquanita Racing — including Robert Smerdon who was banned for life — will be pursued for prizemoney.

Should RV seek to recoup prizemoney from the owners of disqualified horses and the owners refuse to pay, one potential recourse could be the big-stick approach.

“The biggest thing they (RV) have probably got to hold over the head of any owner is probably continuing to be entitled to be an owner,” Kane said.

“But even that has issues - say if you have a person who was the sole owner of a horse caught up in all of this ten years ago and say for example that was the last horse that person owned and they don’t really have an interest in racing anymore, they don’t really care too much do they?

“It probably becomes easier if you have somebody who might have 40 or 50 horses in the game now because you can say if you don’t pay us back there will be consequences.

“But I think it is pretty onerous – many people are understandably participants in the sport for profit and they need some certainty about this.”

When asked by Racenet to provide clarity on AR224, and whether there was any time limitations in terms of the rule regarding a potential claw-back of prizemoney for disqualified horses, Racing Victoria provided the following statement: 

"Given that the horses have not yet been disqualified, it would be inappropriate to make any further comments with respect to factors associated with the recovery of prizemoney," RV said in the statement to Racenet.

"As you are aware, by 10 August 2020, owners of the 81 implicated horses are entitled to make submissions to the stewards with respect to whether their horses ought be disqualified, which may include arguments with respect to limitation periods."

Earlier in the week, Racing Victoria dropped an Aquanita bombshell by revealing which 81 horses they would consider for disqualification.
ENDS
The learned lawyer makes some very astute observations ....RV will face massive obstacles if they pursue this Quixotic escapade ...time to let it go...and try their best to put some positive spin on it .

Giddy Up :beer:




Offline Arsenal

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« 2020-Jul-13, 05:42 PM Reply #290 »
Will jockeys have to pay back Aquanita percentages?
Will jockeys have to pay back Aquanita percentages?
Brad Waters
Article Author
Brad Waters
1:11PM13 July 2020
11 Comments

Affected jockeys will have to wait to find out if they will be required to repay any percentages earned for riding any of the Aquanita Racing horses in line to be disqualified from races.

Racing Victoria announced last week that it had sent the owners of 81 starters show-cause notices demanding to know why they shouldn’t have to repay prizemoney their horses earned in certain races.

The move came at the end of RV’s deliberations on whether the starters should be disqualified from their respective races after being implicated in the ‘top-up’ scandal involving Aquanita trainers.

Owner Jason Love was one of those that received RV letters demanding he show why he and other owners should not have repay prizemoney earned by handy performer The Bowler. Love slammed RV’s handing of the matter in a radio interview last week.

The Herald-Sun reported last week that board members of Aquanita Racing, which was shut down in the wake of the ‘top-up’ case, were unlikely to receive RV demands to repay any prizemoney.

Aquanita’s board members included trainer Robert Smerdon, who was banned for life for his part in the scheme.

Victorian Jockeys’ Association chief executive Matthew Hyland said his members had not received any such letters from RV.

“It certainly hasn’t been raised with me. Put it that way,” Hyland said.

“None of our jockeys have received any of those letters. That’s for sure. Nobody has actually spoken to us so I’m none the wiser.

“I only know what has been written or on the air in the last week or so.”

Hyland said his personal opinion was that it would be difficult for RV to demand repayment of money earned as far back as 2011 but it would be interesting to see how the matter played out.

“My personal opinion is that I think it would be a very difficult expectation across the board to think that people are going to be in a position to repay it with all this time gone by,” he said.

“It’s very interesting to see what will happen.”

A Racing Victoria spokesman did not rule out jockeys being asked to repay Aquanita riding percentages but said any such decision would be made at the end of the show cause period next month.

“No decision has yet been made with respect to recovery of prizemoney and will only occur following the conclusion of the show cause process and the final determination by the Stewards,” the RV spokesman said in a statement.

“At the appropriate time, the Racing Victoria Board and/or Chief Executive will give consideration to whether any party, including jockeys, will be required to repay prizemoney earnt as a result of being associated with any of the implicated horses.”

ENDS

I think they would be out of time for most if not all ........far too late usually after 12 months recovery of wages would be statute barred.......it's not like a debt recovery on the Unpaid Forfeits List which last time I checked still had lots of bad debts which will never be recovered even if they made an effort which it appears they don't bother.

Giddy Up :beer:



Offline Arsenal

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« 2020-Jul-15, 09:36 AM Reply #291 »
There have been multiple cases of winners being disqualified after returning positive swabs which would involve the forfeiture of prize money if it had been paid I wonder if the jockey was required to pay back his fee ..that's a question that should be easily answered....I'll ask RQ for an answer..stand by for news.

RQ advised .........Thank you for your email.

The Owner/Trainer/Jockey are required to repay their Prizemoney portion back if there is a disqualification.

The Jockey is not required to pay back their Riding Fee.



Giddy Up :beer:
« Last Edit: 2020-Jul-15, 05:39 PM by Arsenal »

Offline Arsenal

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« 2020-Aug-11, 10:31 AM Reply #292 »
Aquanita doping scandal: Deadline for owners to show why they shouldn’t repay prizemoney

A significant number of owners embroiled in the Aquanita doping scandal have responded to show why their gallopers shouldn’t be disqualified — a possible ban which could lead to them being asked to repay prizemoney.

Gilbert Gardiner and Leo Schlink, Herald Sun
Subscriber only
|
August 10, 2020 8:40pm
Robert Smerdon copped 10 years for his role in the Aquanita doping scandal.


Racing Victoria has received a “significant” number of ­responses from the owners of 81 horses facing disqualification over the Aquanita doping scandal.

The owners had until 5pm on Monday to give stewards reasons for their horses to avoid disqualification.

Should stewards proceed with the disqualification of any of the 81 horses, the affected owners could be asked to repay prizemoney.

Group 1 Myer Classic winner Politeness, former star filly Mosheen, and champion jumper Black And Bent are among the 81 horses threatened with disqualification.

Racing Victoria has committed to paying the balance of prizemoney missed to the owners of horses that finished behind disqualified Aquanita runners during the widespread doping scheme that ran from 2010-17.

A decision on whether to pursue the connections of disqualified horses to return prizemoney rests with the Racing Victoria board.

Meanwhile, tributes emerged on Monday for Danny Garland, a stablehand embroiled in the scandal who lost a long battle with illness.

Though he served a lengthy ban, Garland consistently ­denied knowledge of any use of ­bi-carb syringes to “top up” horses before races.


Racing Victoria stewards have used 13 separate categories to classify levels of improper or dishonourable action involving the 81 horses.

Super filly Mosheen is among the 81 horses threatened with disqualification.

Many of the affected owners of horses prepared by banned trainers Robert Smerdon, Tony Vasil and Stuart Webb sought legal action last month after receiving letters from RV stewards.

An annexure to RV’s letter referred to the Victorian Civil Administration Tribunal’s findings against seven racing figures involved in the clandestine doping scheme from 2010-17.

The categories range from a VCAT finding of actual administration of a bicarb mix to horses in circumstances where it was “blatantly obvious” which horse was illegally treated.

More than 1000 incriminating texts extracted from float driver Greg Nelligan’s mobile phone after he was caught “topping up” Lovani at Flemington in October 2017 formed the foundation of the case against the accused.

Some of the most prominent horses listed for potential disqualification include former star filly Mosheen, Myer Classic winner Politeness, Brungle Cry and Black And Bent.

Texts found in the mobile of stablehand Greg Nelligan were central to the case against the accused.

RV has set aside a fund for the redistribution of prize money, but it has also warned owners it could seek to have prize money repaid under Australian rules of racing 224.

The Herald Sun has been told some of the seven people disqualified over the doping operation no longer have assets in their name, making the possibility of owners successfully suing any of the group for lost prize money remote.

The fallout of Australia‘s biggest alleged horse doping scandal could result in the possible repayment of up to $2m in prize money.

Politeness earned $300,000 winning the 2015 Group 1 Myer Classic, while Black And Bent banked about $200,000 for connections winning the 2011 Grand National Hurdle and 2012 Galleywood Hurdle.

Mosheen earned $90,000 for connections for second in 2011 Group 1 Thousand Guineas.

The managing owner or representatives of the 81 horses were given until today (Monday) to respond in writing as to why their horse should not be disqualified from the races in question.

Of the 81 starters, 24 were winners, 24 were minor placegetters and 33 were unplaced, with the prize money won by each varying from $300,000 to none at all.

More than half of them won less than $10,000 in the races in question.

ENDS

Ya can't get money out of a stone  :whistle:

Giddy Up :beer:



Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2020-Aug-19, 02:49 AM Reply #293 »
Fortnight wait for Laming's fate

Trainer Richard Laming will know his fate within a fortnight over cobalt charges that were claimed to constitute the most important case to so far come before the Victorian Racing Tribunal.

The two-day hearing concluded on Tuesday with VRT chairman Judge John Bowman indicating there were a number of complexities and questions of law in the case as the tribunal considered whether Laming is guilty of administration or of the lesser charge of presenting a horse to race with a prohibited substance in its system.

Laming faces the charges of administration, presenting and of not having an updated treatment book following the investigation into his horse Iam Ekstraordinary returning a cobalt positive twice the permitted threshold in a race at Ballarat in May 2018.

He has pleaded not guilty to administration but guilty to the other charges.

Justin Hooper, appearing for Racing Victoria, told the tribunal in his final submissions on Tuesday that Laming's was the most important case to come before the relatively new authority because of its potential impact on the rules governing prohibited substances.

"It couldn't have been intended by those that drafted the rules that trainers who take their hands off the wheel are mere presenters," he told the three-person tribunal.

"Imagine what the state of racing would be in if trainers aggregate responsibility to their staff."

The tribunal heard on the opening day of the video-link hearing on Monday that Laming had delegated responsibility for the vitamin treatment regime to his former foreman Marnu Potgieter and stablehand Amy Mercer.

Mercer conceded to the tribunal on Monday that she was the likely cause of the positive for Iam Ekstraordinary by mistakenly injecting it with a vitamin treatment on race day.

"Mr Laming's attitude is essentially this: 'If my staff stuff up, it's their fault'," said Hooper.

Damian Sheales, acting for Laming, said RV's position that Laming was guilty of administration through his delegation of his authority and his stable practices, was misguided as he said those considerations talk to the rule concerning presentation and not administration.

He said Mercer had not been given free license by Laming to act as she had pleased and if she acted outside the well-established parameters of her job, that did not mean Laming was guilty of causing that action.

Hooper said Laming has caused the illegal administration as he had handed over total responsibility to his staff for implementing the vitamin injection regime he had worked out with leading veterinarian Dr Tim Roberts some four years earlier.

"Mr Laming's carelessness was augmented by the width of the permission given to Marnu and Amy," Hooper told the tribunal.

"It was incumbent on Mr Laming to be more vigilant and to supervise Amy Mercer."

Mercer told the tribunal she had given about 5000 such injections to horses in 2018 and said she was so used to the practice that she could 'do it with my eyes closed'.

Hooper said a similar mistake three months earlier where Mercer injected the wrong horse when it was returned to the wrong box, but the error was uncovered, should have sounded a warning and demanded new stable practices.

Hooper described Laming's stable practices as 'shambolic' and he said 'they were not a well-oiled stable which had a momentary lapse'.

Mercer, however, said there was a stable meeting following the initial mistake, with emphasis placed on staff ensuring each horse was returned to its correct box.

Hooper said that as a licensed trainer, Laming was required to take greater care to ensure adequate procedures around his treatment diary, staff training, the need of staff to print out their own work sheets at home and to ensure there is a clear sign on the front of the box indicating which horse would soon be racing and therefore not treated.

Judge Bowman reserved the tribunal's findings.


https://www.racing.com/news/2020-08-18/news-fortnight-wait-for-lamings-fate

Offline Arsenal

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« 2020-Aug-19, 10:07 AM Reply #294 »
There appears to be some similarities allegedly (lack of supervision)between this case and that of  Ben Currie in QLD who has two stables one at Glenvale under the control of his father Mark and the other at Clifford Park ......In his ruling, member Howe noted Ben Currie effectively abnegated all responsibility for horses at the Glenvale premises to his father Mark and that Mark Currie’s supervision of staff was “marginal at best”.
“I conclude there was no adequate supervision by (Mark Currie) of the staff at Glenvale. Similarly there was no supervision of (Mark Currie) and therefore the staff at Glenvale by (Ben) Currie,” Howe wrote.

He went on to say that Ben Currie “could have exercised some supervisory control over Glenvale had he bothered”.

“By the complete abnegation of responsibility for staff compliance with the administration regime required by the Rules of Racing, I conclude (Ben) Currie may be said to have caused the administration of medicine to horses on the race day of the 7th (April),” he said.

Howe noted the reduced sentences of Mark Currie (wholly suspended 12 months suspension) and staffer Cameron Schwenke (three months disqualification) were less than the mandatory six months disqualification under this rule, but said “I am not privy to the special circumstances relied upon to arrive at those particular penalties”.

“I note (those penalties), but I do not regard them as establishing any sort of benchmark without knowing why they were so reduced,” he said.

Howe said he did not categorise Ben Currie “as someone free from blame” but that he did not fall into the same category as someone guilty of physical administration.


Giddy Up :beer:

Offline Arsenal

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« 2020-Oct-28, 07:57 PM Reply #295 »
OWNERS WAITING FOR PRIZEMONEY VERDICT Racenet report

Racing Victoria’s response to owners embroiled in the Aquanita doping scandal is unlikely to be made public until after the spring carnival.

RV stewards have assessed responses from owners issued with show-cause notices arguing why they shouldn’t return up to $2 million in prizemoney won by horses caught up in the notorious scheme.

Several owners indicated they would submit reasons why they should not be penalised for the actions of the seven trainers and stable staff who were found to have doped horses in some of the nation’s biggest races.

TAB/ATA Trainersâ Trust Handicap

Robert Smerdon was banned for life for his role in the Aquanita scandal. Pictu Getty Images

Robert Smerdon and stable employees Greg and Denise Nelligan were disqualified for life for their roles in the scheme, which involved the secretive topping up horses on track with a blend of sodium bicarbonate and other substances.

RV found a total of 81 horses trained under the former Aquanita Racing banner at Caulfield were likely to have received illegal bicarbonate ‘top-ups’.

Owners were given until August 10 to show cause why they should not have to repay prizemoney. Of the 81 horses identified, 24 won with many more horses finishing in the placings.

ENDS

Giddy Up :beer:



Offline Arsenal

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« 2021-Mar-17, 02:52 PM Reply #296 »
Aquanita saga finish line in sight after 72 horses disqualified
Aquanita saga finish line in sight after 72 horses disqualified
Former star jumper Black And Bent was stripped of two of metropolitan jumps wins at the conclusion of a Racing Victoria stewards’ inquiry.
Brad Waters
Article Author
Brad Waters
5:14PM16 March 2021

Racing Victoria stewards have disqualified 72 horses implicated in the Aquanita Racing scandal but affected owners won’t have to repay more than $1 million in prizemoney.

Aquanita Racing trainers Robert Smerdon, Stuart Webb and Tony Vasil were disqualified along with four stablehands for engaging in improper or dishonourable actions in connection with racing at the end of a long saga in 2018 and 2019.

RV stewards asked the managing owners of 81 starters to show cause why their horses should not have been disqualified from their respective races.

Only nine runners escaped disqualification, including the 2015 Group 1 Myer Classic winner Politeness.

Those disqualified include the Smerdon-trained Group 2 Herbert Power Stakes winner Shewan.

Former star jumper Black And Bent, also trained by Smerdon, was disqualified from the 2011 Grand National Hurdle and a hurdle at Sandown in 2012.

Black And Bent’s former stablemate Brungle Cry was stripped of her win in the 2012 Grand National Hurdle.

Derby Day Races

The 2015 Myer Classic winner Politeness escaped disqualification in the Aquanita Racing investigation. Pictu Michael Klein

The placings of the affected races will be amended and prizemoney paid to other runners “as though the disqualified horse had not started in the race”.

“Having considered all the facts and the numerous and extensive responses to show cause notices, the Stewards determined that 72 starters were the subject of a prohibited administration, and that the appropriate course of action is to disqualify them,” RV chief executive Giles Thompson said.

“The Aquanita case has been a long and challenging chapter where the systematic cheating of a small group of individuals cast a poor light over Victorian racing and the many honest, hardworking people within.”

Racing Victoria will pay the balance of any prizemoney owing, based on the amended placings, to the owners, trainers and jockeys of horses that finished behind the disqualified runners.


Racing Victoria will demand Robert Smerdon repay prizemoney from races in which his horses were disqualified. Pictu AAP

Racing Victoria has budgeted that amount in its finances since 2018.

However, Racing Victoria will send letters to Smerdon, Vasil and Webb demanding repayment of prizemoney they received from any of the 72 starters they trained.

RV chairman Brian Kruger said the Board faced a difficult decision on the repayment of prizemoney but decided against recouping money from owners.

“This was a difficult decision for the Board to make knowing that there were pros and cons with the various options available to it,” Kruger said in a statement.

“In making its determination, the Board was ultimately guided by the principle of what is in the best overall interests of Victorian racing and a desire to apply a consistent determination for owners across all disqualified starters.”
Related Topics: Stewards VIC
ENDS

Good luck getting the money back from Smerdon, Vasil and Webb....... court action would be their only hope ...and imo only a rough chance of enforcing any favourable decision..........seeing it gave up on the owners that won't improve their chances....if they go down that road.
Giddy Up :beer:


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