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Doping Scandal Investigation in Victoria - Vic Gallops - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: Doping Scandal Investigation in Victoria  (Read 62572 times)

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Offline Peter Mair

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« 2020-Jan-02, 12:52 PM Reply #275 »


THE QUESTION PUT -- what do you want RVL to do?


RVL asking for a royal commission to be convened would be a useful start.

........... that won't be happening!

I want RVL to stop grandstanding and open its mind to what it may be doing wrong itself.

RVL is inclined to give loud lip-service to 'policing integrity' while never seeming to understand that its policies on scheduling races and inflating race fields have corrupted the game from the perspective of a fair go for punters and owners.

Having gone on like Jack Horner in a corner, RVL then  imposes harsh penalties without regard for proportionality.

It has been a circus for the past few years -- top trainers just walking away.

Robert Smerdon was never found to have breached the  bi-carb limits over some years -- and no disclosure was made of the findings about the performance of horses topped-up.

Don't worry about 'with any certainty' -- just tell us which horses got a top up and how they performed on the day relative to 'before and 'after'. We can assess the probabilities.

..... in the wash up he has got 'life' when it will soon enough be possible for a horse to be so treated, before-raceday, with a slow release capsule.

Darren Weir was shopped by an insider for having and using 'jiggers' -- 4 years for an 'offence' which is difficult to say either works or causes a horse unreasonable discomfort relative to other options.

........ hopefully any further prosecution of this matter will be defended with testimony to show the effects of 'jiggers' using a AA battery.
 
RVL could also require trainers to disclose the treatment records for horses for 'legal but secret' practices with drugs like lasix  and presumably a few others like 'bute' in between runs. Even feed variations are critical.

........ a royal commission would clarify a few things ...... where is Rowena Orr or Rowena Orr.




Offline Jeunes

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« 2020-Jan-02, 05:29 PM Reply #276 »
Jigger definition below, PM.

https://www.racing.com/news/2019-01-31/news-what-is-a-jigger

If it does not work why would Weir use it? Are you implying PM, he is stupid because he was using something that may not  have worked.

If Weir did not believe it affected his horses, why would he plead guilty or is that gross stupidity too?


Offline Peter Mair

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« 2020-Jan-02, 06:11 PM Reply #277 »


Dimensions of 'stupidity'

Doing anything contrary to the 'rules of racing' is stupid -- as the fate of the outed trainers confirms.

Beyond the obvious, the 'rules of racing' are discretionary -- and open to discretion in terms of them being always observed.

I am no authority on devious ways of training horses -- neither are the bureaucratic administrators so overly protective of the image of racing.

There are issues of 'character' on the table here -- would Smerdon and Weir, prominent and experienced trainers, deliberately treat their horses improperly? -- I do not think so.

Walking away is different to pleading guilty.

Use of a whip in the normal course of training and racing will soon be outlawed -- expert evidence may be interesting to hear on the relative harm caused by whips and jiggers.

.... how about a royal commission to get to the bottom of things?

Offline Jeunes

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« 2020-Jan-02, 06:23 PM Reply #278 »

There are issues of 'character' on the table here -- would Smerdon and Weir, prominent and experienced trainers, deliberately treat their horses improperly? -- I do not think so.


Let me get this right, using your words and I am quoting part of your argument that according to you, if you are prominent and experienced, then you will never commit anything nefarious?

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2020-Jan-02, 08:17 PM Reply #279 »



... about as bright as the wily one

Let me get this right, using your words, and I am quoting part of your argument that according to you, if you are prominent and experienced, then you will never commit anything nefarious?

Prominent trainers, like Weir and Smerdon, are very experienced horsemen -- with a big business to run -- and they run the business professionally, according to their judgement and character.

The idea, that this does not always meet the dictates of bureaucrats at RVL, is no cause for concern in the broad sweep of their achievements.

There are 'crooks' but Weir and Smerdon are not.

It is the stewards that need to get their act together beyond their 'ready, fire, aim' approach to managing fair racing.

Consider the damage being done by paying no-hoper horses to run 10th

.......  those at RVL, chasing bucks, need to reflect that a beam may well be in their eye as they are finding motes in the eyes of others.

A royal commission would get a lot of this crap sorted -- and, as is., the administrators would not survive.


Offline Jeunes

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« 2020-Jan-02, 09:52 PM Reply #280 »


... about as bright as the wily one

Let me get this right, using your words, and I am quoting part of your argument that according to you, if you are prominent and experienced, then you will never commit anything nefarious?

Prominent trainers, like Weir and Smerdon, are very experienced horsemen -- with a big business to run -- and they run the business professionally, according to their judgement and character.

The idea, that this does not always meet the dictates of bureaucrats at RVL, is no cause for concern in the broad sweep of their achievements.

There are 'crooks' but Weir and Smerdon are not.

It is the stewards that need to get their act together beyond their 'ready, fire, aim' approach to managing fair racing.

Consider the damage being done by paying no-hoper horses to run 10th

.......  those at RVL, chasing bucks, need to reflect that a beam may well be in their eye as they are finding motes in the eyes of others.

A royal commission would get a lot of this crap sorted -- and, as is., the administrators would not survive.



So Weir and Smerdon are not crooks in your opinion. In your opinion, you think they are victims.

So tell me PM, would you like to test a jigger on you to see if it has any effects. I attached some links below as you said in the past the evidence is inconclusive. After all who is better to judge impartially than you, the bastion of truth.

https://www.ebay.com.au/b/Cattle-Prod/11751/bn_55212572

I do have a higher opinion of Wily Ďs than your  posts  as he seems  to answer the questions properly.

Offline Arsenal

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« 2020-Jan-03, 10:43 AM Reply #281 »
Aquanita saga: Former trainer to chase retrospective prizemoney
 
By Damien Ractliffe
January 2, 2020 ó 3.09pm

Retired trainer Brian Johnston says he'll be chasing the $88,313 cheated out of connections of Zaman by disqualified 2012 Grand National Hurdle-winning trainer Robert Smerdon.

Smerdon unsuccessfully defended 78 of 115 doping-related charges at the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal in September and his lifetime ban from racing was upheld by VCAT deputy president Heather Lambrick on Tuesday.

In its 2018-19 annual report, Racing Victoria wrote: "Stewards will consider whether an application(s) should be made to the relevant body with respect to the disqualification of any particular horse(s).

"The disqualification of any horse(s) may bring rise to a future liability through the upgrading of placings and the consequent payment of revised prizemoney.

"Following a review of the facts and details available as at the date of signing the accounts, Racing Victoria believes that the current allowance for any potential future liability for payment of future revised prizemoney remains appropriate."

Zaman was beaten into second by eight lengths by a drug-fueled Brungle Cry in the $200,000 Sandown race after Smerdon instructed stablehand Greg Nelligan to "top up" the jumper with sodium bicarbonate.

"Mr Nelligan asks Mr Smerdon whether he needs any help today and Mr Smerdon replies a 'top up could help at the end of 3900 in the very heavy...'," Lambrick wrote in her September 13 decision.

"I accept that an actual administration [of Brungle Cry] took place."

Johnston said he would "absolutely" be chasing the $127,563 top prize after his horse's connections took home just $39,250.

"Our son owned about a quarter, I think we had about a quarter. My best mate Mick Loveridge, he might have had 42 or 43 per cent and Peter Sinn, he had seven per cent," Johnston said.
 
Brungle Cry winning the 2012 Grand National Hurdle.Credit:Angela Wylie

"A quarter of $100,000 would be nice. We'd get trainer's percentage too, wouldn't we? Beautiful. I hope it happens mate.
"I'll be on the phone to find out what they're doing."

A number of other high prizemoney races are set to be affected by disqualifications and prizemoney revisions.

After being topped up with performance-enhancing drugs, Shewan won the $210,000 group 2 Herbert Power in 2011, Kirribilli Gold won the $100,000 Australian Hurdle in 2012 and Mosheen won the $221,000 group 2 Blazer Stakes in 2012.

Nick Williams, who owned 2011 Herbert Power runner-up Tanby, said he expected Racing Victoria to make the necessary revisions.

"I'm sure Racing Victoria have taken the appropriate legal advice as can be seen by the provision in the latest set of financial accounts," Williams said.

"I would assume now the matter is finalised legally they will move to amend the results of the affected races."

Affected races range from group 1 spring carnival features to Ararat maidens, dating June 26, 2010 to November 5, 2016, and wouldn't just affect the subsequent placegetter but most runners in each respective field.

Shewan, left, beats Tanby in the 2011 Herbert Power.Credit:Paul Rovere

Politeness finished second in the $1 million group 1 Emirates Stakes in 2015 after being "topped up" and returned $180,000 in prizemoney for her owners.

Connections for third would be entitled a further $90,000 retrospectively, fourth a further $45,000, fifth an extra $20,000, sixth an extra $5000 and ninth - who finished out of the money - would be entitled $20,000 if promoted to eighth.

Australian Bloodstock director Jamie Lovett, whose horse Magic Artist finished fourth for German trainer Andreas Wohler in that race, said he would wait and see how retrospective changes played out rather than actively chase revisions.

Other high profile races include the 2011 Thousand Guineas (Mosheen, second), the 2012 Edward Manifold (Members Joy, second) and the 2015 Darley Classic (Lumosty, fourth).

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/racing/aquanita-saga-former-trainer-to-chase-retrospective-prizemoney-20200102-p53ocp.html

ENDS
 :beer:

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2020-Jan-03, 01:20 PM Reply #282 »


........ send me a jigger and I will tell you if it hurts -- a 'prod' powered by a AA battery is not a cattle prod --and -- if it is not illegal to use a cattle prod in the business of farming it is hardly a capital offence to use a AA battery device on a horse.

As for undoing the result of any race where the swab did not test positive -- the best of Brittish.

Offline Jeunes

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« 2020-Jan-03, 02:13 PM Reply #283 »
Marion Jones did not test positive too but yet got stripped of her gold medals.

So did Lance Armstrong.

Obviously under your methodology PM, we should be giving them the medals and trophies plus apologising for causing inconvenience.

Offline Villa

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« 2020-Mar-25, 04:46 PM Reply #284 »
Iím new to this site (2 days) and canít believe some of the garbage that gets posted. Itís like some people havenít a clue about anything they say. To basically state in a comment that Weir and Smerdon wouldnít cheat is delusional. P.s it makes for entertaining reading. Keep up the great work Peter Mair 😳
« Last Edit: 2020-Mar-25, 04:50 PM by Villa »


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