RVL Silencing the critics - Vic Gallops - Racehorse TALK harm-plan harm-plan

Racehorse TALK



RVL Silencing the critics - Vic Gallops - Racehorse TALK

Author Topic: RVL Silencing the critics  (Read 16555 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Gintara

  • Group 1
  • User 16
  • Posts: 12662
« 2016-Jul-01, 12:19 PM Reply #50 »
Wily, I understand your point, but this sort of stuff just has to stop.  The Forum is losing active members mainly because of the present culture here.  Maybe people have been too tolerant for too long.  The rules have always been there.  When you join here you agree to abide by the rules.  Maybe it IS time to get serious about it and everyone behaves.  People easily forget that this IS a public place.  Our behaviours do get judged by those viewing.

Doing what has always been done is no justification going forward.  Your argument is akin to being pulled over for speeding and crying foul because you have always driven faster than the limit.  If you want rules that can be bent go to another Forum.

I don't agree with you about people leaving (that's another issue) Ascot but I agree with you over the behaviour issue. It's not that hard to respect others opinions.

As an aside as a mod it can be hard to please all, recently there was some argy bargy on the Just Racing thread and I stepped in to suggest if anyone has a problem they should use the report function as that is what it's there for, nothing more, nothing less.

Guess what? Next minute there is a complaint to the mod team about over moderation and we shouldn't have said anything! Keep out basically. This came from someone who hadn't contributed but was enjoying the to & fro :shrug:

Sometimes you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.  :confused1:

Offline MagiC~*

  • Admin
  • Group 1
  • User 2
  • *****
  • Posts: 14298
« 2016-Jul-01, 12:39 PM Reply #51 »
No wily you don't get it both ways, either stop the personal attacks and report his, or don't report them at all.
I don't read the soap box thread so to suggest I should be all over the problem is insulting and naive.
When you do report anything and mods go take a look, we see you giving as good as you get, so why should we moderate fz when you are doing the exact same thing ?

Like I said, I have placed you and him on each other's ignore list, if he continues to insult you he will be dealt with and vice versa.

If either of you take each other off ignore, then you will both be sin binned and or moderated.

I have so much more on my plate than having to deal with people who get on their computers and start acting like two year old's.


Offline Ascot

  • Group 1
  • User 202
  • Posts: 5883
« 2016-Jul-01, 01:24 PM Reply #52 »
Now we are getting close to core of the matter.  Boys, just step back a moment from what YOU see as the issue.  Wily quite rightly does not like being abused and believes in tit for tat....like the bloke who gives you the bird in traffic and you toot the horn back to him to return the gesture, we have all done it.  Gintara make valid points about policing from a Mod's point of view.  But the bigger picture tells me that if this is how we present ourselves to the wider audience, and always remember that whatever you post can be seen from anywhere and it is not just a one to one exchange, the general public cannot possibly be impressed.  And that is where the Forum draws its future growth.  Every abusive post you write is a turn off to anyone who does not own your frustration or anger with the person you abuse.

Further it is actually a selfish and cowardly act.  Try abusing someone in a bar and you use a potty mouth.  You will soon get a punch from the target and / or a shirt front and slap from a bouncer.  It is cowardly to do it from a keyboard.  Schoolyard stuff some said earlier.

Don't confuse all this with being politically correct.  It is nothing to do with that (watch the video link below).  It is about presenting our best face in public..........and who doesn't want that. 

  https://www.facebook.com/SteveReichertOfficialPage/videos/1278154775559621/

Ignore is a most misunderstood tool in here.  Imagine a Forum with no PeterMair or Ascot.  Would be like a breath of fresh air wouldn't it?  All done with the press of a button and everyone wins.

Offline wily ole dog

  • Group 1
  • User 218
  • Posts: 27208
« 2016-Jul-01, 03:32 PM Reply #53 »
That's all very true Ascot but it does come down to what sort of forum you want. As you said, abuse destroys the feel for many.
I find it astounding that some get punted from here or others have their posts edited whilst others happily run amok and drag the joint down without any consequences.

As to who comes and goes or who's on ignore? that comes down to that individuals value to this joint.
I can give you 2 who add zero value but cause all the issues

Offline Ascot

  • Group 1
  • User 202
  • Posts: 5883
« 2016-Jul-01, 05:15 PM Reply #54 »
Try to think big picture Wily.  I can list about 20 former regular posters who no longer come here.  That is a very significant chunk of regulars to vacate town.  If you poll them as to why, the common theme is the loss of quality in the last 12 months.  When the numbers fall like that and they are not replaced by new recruits, the culture of the place will inevitably change.  That is just simple evolution.  It happens over time in communities and suburbs in our cities and towns.  And with a change in culture those who have left have little motivation to return. 

But the problem is the only way to attract newbies is to ensure the Forum is of sufficient interest and quality for newbies to sign up.  Otherwise it might just be the current regulars who will surely, over time, get bored with each other (no offense intended).  So potty mouth posts of personal abuse and hostility add nothing but demotivation for existing and potential newbies, which any marketing expert will tell you is a recipe for disaster. 

Now what "sort of Forum" people want is in the hands of every poster, not MagiC, not the Mods, not Ascot, not Peter Mair, not even Wily, Fours, Firezuki.   That is an everchanging perception held by members and guests collectively.  Sort of the synergy of the place is the sum of the parts plus some.  If too many of the parts are substandard, then the opposite  will happen and discord and banality will predominate.

Offline wily ole dog

  • Group 1
  • User 218
  • Posts: 27208
« 2016-Jul-01, 05:17 PM Reply #55 »
Can't disagree with any of that and that's why the problems need to be fixed.
It's clear what needs to be done

Offline MagiC~*

  • Admin
  • Group 1
  • User 2
  • *****
  • Posts: 14298
« 2016-Jul-01, 06:24 PM Reply #56 »
I know what you are suggesting wily, but everybody deserves the opportunity to change just as we all do.

play the ball not the man and if anybody struggles with that, then we will use the new moderation tools available to us to make sure everybody adheres to the new mantra.

The thing is though, people have to want to change.

Offline Peter Mair

  • Group 1
  • User 326
  • Posts: 5232
« 2016-Jul-01, 07:20 PM Reply #57 »

An apology -- and then once more unto the breach

Bushwalking in the Blue Mountains, I have been oblivious to this overheated exchange.

For my part it is settled --  'wily' is 'wily'.  FULL STOP!

I apologise 'wily' for any disrespect.

The underlying issues for aracing industry silencing its critics will not go away.

RVL among others can have no complaint with the day-by-day evidence that the administration of racing is institutionally corrupt -- the business is being run in a way intended to take money unfairly from the modest TAB punters that fill a pool drained by insders and professionals.

Just wait for tomorrow -- inflated fields of horses unable to merit the weight and given 'no hope' but always capable of being an imediment to a smaller field of qualified runners that could provide a fair race.

The issue here is 'institutional corruption' -- every one doing their job but working to a business model that corrupts the product: a next step in my mind is for the ACCC to investigate and pull the plug on the nonsense.

Above all is the question of why the industry will not require betting operators -- especially TABs -- to show after each race the readily aavailable evidence of 'which class of punter' won and which lost.

Neither Mrs Moody nor anyone else need to mention anyone by name to make the point that unfairness is ingrained in a business that does not want to find the proof.

............. and for the record........... no one ever believed her husband ever dministered cobalt to the horse............ whoever did was not discovered.




Offline Peter Mair

  • Group 1
  • User 326
  • Posts: 5232
« 2016-Jul-06, 01:45 PM Reply #58 »


Who got the $1.25+ million that went 'west' on Saturday 2 July


Using the SMH's Shane Montgomery as a benchmark, TAB punters were let off light on Saturday.

In both Melbourne and Sydney, Monty's Top 5 selected 25 of the 36 first-four placegetters in each state and his five selections included the winner in 17 of the 18 races 3 of the quadrellas and a raft of quinella, trifecta and first-four dividends.

Monty is an outstanding tipster -- when he 'misses' a winner in five selections it is worth asking why.

The worst result for punters was the last in Sydney -- a $40,000 F4 dividend and $20,000 quadrella also meant that some $ 1 million went missing from the associated exotic TAB pools in Sydney and Melbourne alone (to say nothing of win/place pools).

TAB punters are entitled to be told where that went -- by class of punter, who were the beneficiaries?

The same goes for races 7 and 8 in Melbourne -- F$ dividends of some $40k and $20k were 'lifted' from TAB pools of some $250,000 across both states:  losing TAB punters would like to know 'who' got that money?

Implicitly these lotto-win outcomes suggest there is something wrong with these races -- were there too many starters for a fair race; did congestion and track condition contribute to unfair outcomes; did the betting and dividend payouts suggest that some punters had 'prior knowledge' about smokeys expected to do well -- etc

Whatever the answers to these questions, the more important point is that they are not asked -- likely wry musing is not converted to proper reviews of the races run and evidence of well-informed and professional betting.

The stewards reports are not usually helpful in this regard -- jockeys inadvertently caught in the melee can be suspended for a problem not of their making.

Implicitly the administrators of racing not only do not ask the questions -- they condone the unfairness and rorting.

That is the 'institutional problem' that is compromising the integrity of the industry -- the rare substance offences pale into insignificance in this broader context while getting 100% of the noise about 'industry integrity'.

Offline wily ole dog

  • Group 1
  • User 218
  • Posts: 27208
« 2016-Jul-06, 04:52 PM Reply #59 »
Favourites won most races and most placegetters were easy to find.
i suggest you stop following the likes of Monty and Richie Callandar and do some form yourself. that has been painfully clear over the past months you've continued this nonssense

Offline Peter Mair

  • Group 1
  • User 326
  • Posts: 5232
« 2016-Jul-09, 07:46 PM Reply #60 »


Monty was on the money again today in Melbourne

.......... all the winners and 25 of the 36 F4 placegetters............ the 2 quadrellas totalling 600, two F4s of 175 each and 3 of the first 4 in 7 of the nine races.

The EQ, Q and BigSux -- paid some 230, 370 and 4,800 respectively.

[ ...rough results in Sydney but Monty had 22 0f the 36 F4 placegetters]

Offline westie

  • Group 1
  • User 8
  • Posts: 14916
« 2016-Jul-10, 12:02 AM Reply #61 »
I can list about 20 former regular posters who no longer come here.  That is a very significant chunk of regulars to vacate town.  If you poll them as to why, the common theme is the loss of quality in the last 12 months.  When the numbers fall like that and they are not replaced by new recruits, the culture of the place will inevitably change.  That is just simple evolution.  It happens over time in communities and suburbs in our cities and towns.  And with a change in culture those who have left have little motivation to return...................................................
Ascot
Would you mind doing so I am truly interested.

Online carey

  • Group3
  • User 2519
  • Posts: 776
« 2016-Jul-20, 03:07 PM Reply #62 »

Finally, Harmers Haven is a tiny little spot on the map between Phillip Island and Wonthaggi. I have no idea who/what 'Hammers' is.    :lol:

surely you would know where harmers haven was, if you decided to use that nick.
kilcunda is between those two joints, but not harmers!
if it's between anywhere it would, be wonthaggi and cape paterson and in the opposite direction to pi.

and i am one who no longer comes here, but i had to set hh straight!!
my only reason for leaving was that i realised it was a waste of my valuable time reading the constant dribble from one particular person in the soap box

Offline Bubbasmith

  • Group 1
  • User 197
  • Posts: 8681
« 2016-Jul-30, 04:22 PM Reply #63 »
Carey, are you still on that WA forum ? Surprisingly your mate is not on that forum.

Online Arsenal

  • VIP Club
  • Group 1
  • User 194
  • Posts: 16662
« 2017-Mar-07, 08:01 AM Reply #64 »
Michelle Payne likely to be up before the stewards for her comments about Mick Goodie who appears not to take any offence ...says she has abused him previously......two reports on the issue follow.

 https://www.punters.com.au/news/Michelle-Payne-tweets-criticism-of-Flemington-track-manager_157652/

https://www.g1x.com.au/news/racing/michelles-twitter-take-on-flemington-track


Giddy Up :beer:


Offline deepthroat

  • Open
  • User 2464
  • Posts: 161
« 2017-Mar-07, 02:58 PM Reply #65 »
I am all for constructive criticism but if Michelle is NOT reprimanded, then that is clear evidence of 2 rule books by RV

Offline gunbower

  • Group 2
  • User 2463
  • Posts: 1004
« 2017-Mar-07, 07:28 PM Reply #66 »
Does anyone think that it is totally pathetic these days that criticism of people within the Industry is basically outlawed. They bring out the old chestnut about bringing the sport into disrepute. What a load of pious pap. What brings the sport into disrepute are trainers filling their charges up with cobalt , jockeys backing other runners when they are riding something else in the same race, trainers passing on five figure sums of cash to jockeys or trainers , jockeys, media and other assorted shysters flogging  off so called slow horses to other Racing areas to grab a fat commission. They are the ones who bring the game into disrepute not some jockey who was able to put Racing on the front page for all the right reasons.

Offline tontonan

  • Group 2
  • User 106
  • Posts: 3480
« 2017-Mar-07, 08:18 PM Reply #67 »
I agree Gunbower.

We desperately need a new Integrity Department in Victoria...as well as a new head vet.... as well as a new board.... and a new chairman.... and a new CEO.   But that is typical isn't it ?  We need a new everything because the failed incumbents are jut the sort to make it a priority to silence any sort of criticism or even comment that doesn't pump up the tires of their failing corporate wagon.  We have prosecution that are still not resolved after 2 years, a credibility crisis that is totally out of hand, and the stewards are running around 'shooshing' anyone who they think speaks out of turn.

That is why this forum ( if it ever gets past 'my lunch is better than your lunch') is important.  In Victoria RVL have bought up most of the racing media and have on a string those they don't own.   They have rules to stomp out any criticism from within the industry.

 Independent voices are getting hard to find as administrative competence. 

Offline dean

  • Listed
  • User 2423
  • Posts: 274
« 2017-Mar-07, 08:54 PM Reply #68 »
Tontonan as usual you make some very valid points. The sanitization of the Racing media hasn't really helped the Industry. I had a fair bit to do over a long period with the late Wayne Wilson. Most of our relationship was not based on the racetrack. However I well remember him telling me about a luncheon he had addressed where he had not given a glowing assessment of the growth and influence of Sky Channel. What was their reaction ?They banned him for many years. Another point of view was completely frowned upon. Places like this forum , in such an attempted "sanitized" media World are so important because the powers that be lack the ability to belt us up because we just might disagree with them. I know from connections mentioned above how Racing Queensland would retain and attempt to identify anyone who posted on the "Letsgohorseracing "  site. Apparently they also sent memos threatening staff about these dastardly places where other points of view were annunciated. Long may free speech remain.

Offline nemisis

  • Group 2
  • User 2461
  • Posts: 1088
« 2017-Mar-07, 09:08 PM Reply #69 »
I agree Gunbower.

 It was clearly an advantage to be on the inside of the Flemington track on Saturday.
 It is very apparent if you watch the final 200 metres of the Guineas.

 Too many big days of Australian racing at Flemington are being affected by the track manager trying to "even things up"

  It is obvious there is a reluctance of anyone of note to criticise much these days and you do wonder about the threat of non-compliance.

Offline PoisonPen7

  • Group 1
  • User 55
  • Posts: 21607
« 2017-Mar-08, 05:10 AM Reply #70 »
I agree Gunbower.

 It was clearly an advantage to be on the inside of the Flemington track on Saturday.
 It is very apparent if you watch the final 200 metres of the Guineas.

 Too many big days of Australian racing at Flemington are being affected by the track manager trying to "even things up"

  It is obvious there is a reluctance of anyone of note to criticise much these days and you do wonder about the threat of non-compliance.

My post from the Australian Guineas thread

Hey Doc is drawn to win this. Gets a lovely run and if they are not running on out wide (as is often the case at Flemington) then all the better.


Fence bias has been apparent for some time now - doesn't happen 100% of the time, but still some significant number  :whistle:

Offline nemisis

  • Group 2
  • User 2461
  • Posts: 1088
« 2017-Mar-08, 05:34 AM Reply #71 »
 Well tipped PP7.

It was because so many favoured runners won on Guineas day that there was not a lot of debate about the track.

There is no betting that this Saturday they will be running on down the middle.
I'm sure Mick Goodie will see to that.

Offline Gintara

  • Group 1
  • User 16
  • Posts: 12662
« 2017-Mar-08, 06:45 AM Reply #72 »
I've openly criticized some of Mick Goodie's practices on here but always given reasons why and a better solution. I have been in that field for 30 years.

I thought to openly slam the bloke calling for his position to be reviewed by someone totally uneducated in his profession was pretty ordinary, especially considering she wasn't even in the state, let along riding at the meeting.

Online Arsenal

  • VIP Club
  • Group 1
  • User 194
  • Posts: 16662
« 2017-Mar-08, 08:33 AM Reply #73 »
The tweet has cost her $1500 a significant penalty for so few words of criticism ....if her comments were restricted to track conditions she wouldn't have had a case to answer........it mays to choose your words carefully if a licensee in Victoria ........the rest of us can say what we like within reason ...defamatory comments excluded ....so we all get a pass. :beer:


 Michelle Payne fined after Goodie tweet
Andrew Eddy@fastisheddy

7 March, 2017

Melbourne Cup-winning jockey Michelle Payne has been fined $1500 by Racing Victoria stewards for contravening the industry's social media policy when she was critical of Flemington track manager Mick Goodie via Twitter on Monday.

Payne, who did not ride at last Saturday's Australian Guineas meeting, used Twitter to call for Goodie's position to be reviewed, claiming he prepared a track that wasn't a fair surface.

In a press release on Tuesday evening, Racing Victoria stewards confirmed they interviewed Payne on Tuesday in relation to comments made in a tweet posted by her on her Twitter account.

"Stewards found that the comments posted in her tweet were improper and/or insulting towards Mr Mick Goodie in his official capacity as Flemington Racecourse Manager," read the release.

Payne was fined the sum of $1500 with the undertaking that the tweet would be removed from her Twitter account.

Payne pleaded guilty to a charge under AR175 (j) which reads:

"The Principal Racing Authority (or the Stewards exercising powers delegated to them) may penalise:

(j) Any person guilty of improper or insulting behaviour at any time towards the Principal Racing Authority, the Committee of any Club or Association, or Stewards, or any official or employee of the Principal Racing Authority, Club or Association, in relation to their or his duties."

Last year, Sarah Moody - the wife of then suspended trainer Peter Moody - was fined $1500 for a series of tweets where she attacked the chief steward Terry Bailey.

After posting her tweets on Monday, Payne told Racing.com that horses that raced on the inside few metres on Saturday had a significant advantage and blamed Goodie for his preparation of Australia's most famous racecourse.

"Mowing the grass shorter on the inside because it's different grass, he should put the rail out if he wants to avoid that patch of grass," Payne said.

"He's got 30 metres of track and sometimes you might want to be on three metres of that track.

"It can happen anywhere but it just happens time and time again at Flemington.

"Obviously a very hard job to be a track manager, there's no doubt about that, but this shouldn't be happening so many times on our best track which is a beautiful big, track."

Payne pointed out that the meeting on Derby Day in 2015, three days before she created history as the first female jockey to win the Emirates Melbourne Cup aboard Prince Of Penzance, was a track where a superior inside section created a dangerous situation.

"On Derby Day (2015) you had 30m of the best track in Australia and everybody wants to get to one metre of the track," she said.

"One it's dangerous, but two, what's the point of being there if you've got no chance of winning when the track's racing like that."

Goodie said he didn't want to respond to Payne's comments other than to say he was happy with how the track raced on Australian Guineas Day.

The rail will remain in the true position for this weekend's Super Saturday meeting, which is highlighted by the Australian Cup and Newmarket Handicap.

Giddy Up :beer:


Offline Peter Mair

  • Group 1
  • User 326
  • Posts: 5232
« 2017-Mar-09, 08:56 PM Reply #74 »


RVL is a disgrace

Could 2KSKY have Michelle Payne give a commentary on how Melbourne tracks will play after any meddling has been disclosed -- aerating, watering, 'shaving a fast lane' etc


BACK TO ALL TOPICS
Sitemap