Racehorse TALK

Thoroughbred Racing Talk => Vic Gallops => Topic started by: Arsenal on 2016-Jun-23, 07:17 PM

Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Arsenal on 2016-Jun-23, 07:17 PM

Senior Victoria racing officials will closely monitor the $80,000 in fines handed out to North Melbourne coach Brad Scott and his football club after the coach questioned the integrity of AFL umpires.

Racing officials are poised to strengthen their fining system after a number of hurtful and demeaning outbursts on radio and social media against integrity officers.

Scott was fined $30,000 and North Melbourne $50,000 in an expensive and worrying week which also saw club president James Brayshaw forced to apologise for his comments to journalist Caroline Wilson.

Scott said he was embarrassed and apologised for his claims of bias after an incident in last Friday night's Hawthorn game.

Scott claimed that umpires had told his players that free kicks would not be paid to Lindsay Thomas because he was a "ducker".

It transpired that Scott had been given misinformation by a staff member.

Racing Victoria are believed to be considering a far stronger line on licensed people making damning comments against racing authorities and using social media to question the integrity of those who police the industry in this state. They are also studying the template used by the AFL and NRL to sanction people making remarks that bring their sport into disrepute.

Victorian Racing have had a spate of licensed people making allegations against the Victorian integrity department in the last three months.

On Thursday, a Gippsland stablehand Manny Gelagotis on Tuesday had an appeal on a $1000 fine for using Twitter to abuse Racing Victoria veterinary surgeon Brian Stewart dismissed. Stewart, one of the most respected, regulatory veterinary surgeons in the world was called "incompetent" on a Twitter message sent out by Gelagotis.

And the integrity department of Victorian Racing also asked Sarah Moody, the wife of suspended trainer Peter Moody, to give a "please explain" over tweets she made. With the inquiry still ongoing, Sarah Moody tweeted: "UnderBailey TV movie coming soon. The rise and eventual fall of out of control no questions answered integrity department. Deception at Epsom." Moody is a registered owner in Victoria.

Moody has been warned in the past of her use of social media but has continued to send messages.

Peter Moody, her husband is serving a six-month suspension following a cobalt charge earlier this year.

Racing NSW chief executive Peter V'Landys confirmed that his state also had a social media structure for those who misuse the medium.

"If they are doing it, they're brought in front of stewards for a 'please explain' and if found guilty, there are varying penalties for such a misdemeanour. We have reminded people in the industry of their duty not to bring their industry into disrepute by using social media," he said.
 

Read mo http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/racing-afl-fines-make-racing-industry-sit-up-and-think-20160621-gpoiyb.html#ixzz4COJzAuBF

Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

Silencing the critics RVL must be delusional to think they  should adopt the scale of penalties imposed on rich AFL clubs and highly paid coaches for comments on referees .....as V'landys described offending comments as " misdemeanours".......simple offences which are soon forgotten .....they only attract attention when stewards lay charges.

While stewards are often targeted for decisions they make they're not infallible and ought to expect some criticsm occasionally without bringing charges under the bringing racing into disrepute rule.

As reported in the SMH article Sarah Moody faces the RAD board next week...in her case she was given the opportunity to explain herself but she's obviously a strong willed woman and declined to remove her critical tweet...in the circumstances with the stress and drama the Moody's have been through you would think the stewards could have given her a pass instead of going down this track.

Giddy Up :beer:
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: ratsack on 2016-Jun-23, 07:46 PM
What a lot of rot

i for one will be trying to stop this PC garbage

"THEY" all use this to protect there agenda

I'm over it

if we don't stop this it will be endemic

anyone with me        :/
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2016-Jun-24, 12:23 AM
What a lot of rot

i for one will be trying to stop this PC garbage

"THEY" all use this to protect there agenda

I'm over it

if we don't stop this it will be endemic

anyone with me        :/

I hear ya' brother.

What it actually is, is using an overstated, almost non-existent "issue" to increase power.

Not just RVL. It is a common tactic by a lot of people these days. Worst offenders are company HR departments.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: specialweek on 2016-Jun-24, 11:54 AM
I agree for the most part but people need to be aware that social media is not like the front bar of your local from days gone by before the internet.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Peter Mair on 2016-Jun-24, 08:39 PM


What part of well deserved derision does RVL not understand?

RVL claiming rights to persecute critics will only ensure that the trickle of critics becomes a flood.

As is now administered, RVL is an absolute disgrace -- and the probabilities are that this will be well illustrated at Flemington tomorrow.

Inflated fields of low-grade horses is a recipe for random outcomes as good horses are impeded by horses that should not be in the fields.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: HarmersHaven on 2016-Jun-24, 11:19 PM
Inflated fields of low-grade horses is a recipe for random outcomes as good horses are impeded by horses that should not be in the fields.

You could've logged in Sunday and posted your nonsensical vitriol, but you chose not to.
You could've logged in Monday and posted your nonsensical vitriol, but you chose not to.
You could've logged in Tuesday and posted your nonsensical vitriol, but you chose not to.
You could've logged in Wednesday and posted your nonsensical vitriol, but you chose not to.
You could've logged in Thursday and posted your nonsensical vitriol, but you chose not to.

Perhaps you tried to let water pass under the bridge, let time fog distant memories, God knows how you work. Let me remind you how last Saturday (Melb Metro) panned out:

Inflated fields
Fields of 8,8,9,9,10,12,13,13,14 contested last Saturday. Average field size 10.67. Pretty much perfect. Zero NTD fields.

is a recipe for random outcomes
Winners included three favorites (2.60, 2.80, 2.90), three second favourites (3.70, 4.10, 5.30), a third fave (5.80) and a fourth fave (7.60), One blowout result (nine race card) at 19.30.

Added to this, 3x Tri's paid less than $100, the next 2x paid less than $200 - 5/9 races Tri's were more than gettable.


Without being accused of playing the man instead of the ball, can you seriously STFU unless you have something of relevance/importance/accuracy to add?
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2016-Jun-25, 06:46 AM
I agree for the most part but people need to be aware that social media is not like the front bar of your local from days gone by before the internet.

Isn't it?   :lol:

I think it is evolving that way mate.

Where this all ends up God only knows.

But one thing I know is if you are going to put yourself in the public view you need to have a thick hide.

There is an army of people who parse every sentence spoken by a public figure and have no qualms whatsoever with tweeting and posting things out of context.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jun-25, 08:15 AM
You could've logged in Sunday and posted your nonsensical vitriol, but you chose not to.
You could've logged in Monday and posted your nonsensical vitriol, but you chose not to.
You could've logged in Tuesday and posted your nonsensical vitriol, but you chose not to.
You could've logged in Wednesday and posted your nonsensical vitriol, but you chose not to.
You could've logged in Thursday and posted your nonsensical vitriol, but you chose not to.

Perhaps you tried to let water pass under the bridge, let time fog distant memories, God knows how you work. Let me remind you how last Saturday (Melb Metro) panned out:
Fields of 8,8,9,9,10,12,13,13,14 contested last Saturday. Average field size 10.67. Pretty much perfect. Zero NTD fields.
Winners included three favorites (2.60, 2.80, 2.90), three second favourites (3.70, 4.10, 5.30), a third fave (5.80) and a fourth fave (7.60), One blowout result (nine race card) at 19.30.

Added to this, 3x Tri's paid less than $100, the next 2x paid less than $200 - 5/9 races Tri's were more than gettable.


Without being accused of playing the man instead of the ball, can you seriously STFU unless you have something of relevance/importance/accuracy to add?


Well said and spot on

I note peter hasn't and wont reply
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: specialweek on 2016-Jun-25, 09:27 AM
Isn't it?    :lol:  

I think it is evolving that way mate.

Where this all ends up God only knows.

But one thing I know is if you are going to put yourself in the public view you need to have a thick hide.

There is an army of people who parse every sentence spoken by a public figure and have no qualms whatsoever with tweeting and posting things out of context.
My point being not many would have had legal action against them from bar talk but many are treating the net like it is.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Peter Mair on 2016-Jun-25, 09:38 PM


Today was illustrative of the rubbish served up by RVL

The F4 dividends included 56k, 22k+, 18k, 9k, 7k, 4k

...........this should not happen........ it is indicative of poor administration............ it is evidence of institutional corruption.

This 'happening' is a regular occurrence -- RVL need to manage the size and quality of the race fields accepted.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: HarmersHaven on 2016-Jun-25, 10:43 PM
Nine races.

2x faves won, 2x second faves won, 1x third fave won.

That's 5/9 races (over half the card) won by the top three in the market. Even the mugs you follow in the paper should've pushed the lemmings into those.

Remaining winners at 8.20, 8.20, 9.40 and 17.80.

So over half the card won by the very gettable, pointy end of the market (top three faves), and only one double-figure (rough) result. And still you whinge.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jun-26, 09:52 AM
Hammers

Pete doesn't talk about winners as he's here for dishonest reasons.
Constantly spews on about F4 divys to perpetrate his lies.

Personally, I found 3 legs of the quaddy as my on top picks and foolishly left out the favourite in my losing leg. I got greedy looking for the value that peter complains about
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jun-26, 09:53 AM
Question for Peter

Which winners yesterday did you find it so hard to find?
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Peter Mair on 2016-Jun-27, 01:12 PM


Critics lacking credibility


The declining relevance of the-is forum is not helped by the speed with which the usual insider suspects jump in to 'defend' the indefensible in a race to the bottom -- nor by the absence of any correcting comment fro others knowing better.

Even I had a collect on the Melbourne quadrella on Saturday -- but it was a close run thing.

The usual lotto dividend (for the professionals) was denied by only small margins to long-priced horses running second -- had the seconds run first the quadrella dividend would have been some $20,000 and the F4 dividends even more disturbingly inflated.

There is a serious recurrent problem of plain unfairness with racing in Melbourne -- it is a management problem and the RVL management needs to embrace 'quality control' as a key performance indicator.

As things stand Melbourne racing is being corrupted by industry greed and disrespect for most customers of race betting.



 

Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jun-27, 01:38 PM
So I will ask you the question again.
What winners of what races did you find objectionable?
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Arsenal on 2016-Jun-28, 01:12 PM
Sarah Moody has been fined $1,500 after being found guilty of posting a tweet that was offensive to Racing Victoria chief steward Terry Bailey.

At a RAD board hearing on Tuesday, Moody was also ordered to delete the tweet, which read:

"Underbailey TVMovie coming soon The rise & eventual fall of an out of control, no questions answered integrity department, Deception at Epsom."

As a registered owner, the wife of suspended trainer Peter Moody is subject to the rules of racing.

Moody was facing charges under AR175(qq), which allows stewards to penalise licenced participants for detrimental comments or actions they make on social media about others in the sport.

Moody pleaded not guilty and said the tweet was tongue in cheek and was posted during what was a stressful time for both her and her family.

No sympathy or understanding  there from the learned RAD board.......it wouldn't have lasted long on twittersphere.... only the stewards brought it to wider public attention....wonder if she'll pay the fine and if not what are the consequences ...go on the defaulters' list....how does RVL recover debts like this in the event of non payment. :o

Giddy Up :beer: 
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jun-28, 02:23 PM
So I will ask you the question again.
What winners of what races did you find objectionable?


Yoooo hooo Peter, cat got your tongue?
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Peter Mair on 2016-Jun-28, 10:15 PM


RVL digging a deep hole -- likely to be a grave

RVL is racing out of control

Racing Victoria board members and senior executives have become incensed at the misuse of social media.

Fairfax Media understand that, if RVL adopts the templates for fines used by the AFL and NRL, Sarah Moody would be facing 10 times Tuesday's fine.

Moody, who claimed on one website that she would not be represented by legal counsel,  was however assisted by Matthew Stirling, who told the RAD board that her  tweet should have been taken in a broader context – referencing the long-running cobalt case against Peter Moody.

Stirling said the tweet was sent with "tongue in cheek",  with the term underbailey a reference to the TV series Underbelly.

 Bailey, who is on holidays with his family,  gave evidence by phone.

Judge John Bowman found Sarah Moody guilty  of being in breach of Australian  Rule of Racing 175(qq). He said that any reasonable reader of the tweet would have reached the same conclusion as Bailey.



Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Peter Mair on 2016-Jun-28, 10:25 PM


...............not-so-wily needs counselling

Questions about easily-found winners at Saturday race meetings in Melbourne will be answered on Saturday, most likely, as they have been for the past year or two when 'lotto like' characterizes most quadrella and F4 dividends.

This is a disgrace for RVL -- not diminished by one day when the 'winners' were ranked in the credible field.

Only not-so-wily thinks one swallow heralds a summer in the middle of an eternal winter.

Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Peter Mair on 2016-Jun-28, 10:31 PM

Fanciful fines

Presumably fines imposed by RVL are only relevant if the benefit of being licensed is greater than the fine --  a cost of doing business without being bullied.

The fun will start when licensed persons with nothing to lose give RVL people a public career development  interview.

RVL is living loose in a glass house -- the rocks will keep coming.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jun-29, 07:38 AM
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Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jun-29, 01:44 PM
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Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Arsenal on 2016-Jun-30, 09:11 AM
Share on Facebook
Share on Twitter COMMENT: Inside the Moody Twitter inquiry
BY BRUCE CLARK - @SNOWYCLARK
1 day ago Horse Racing
Sarah Moody (middle) with her family. (Pic: Sharon Chapman)
Never before have so many earnest words been spoken about 23 of them “dripping in innuendo” that had been written and published via social media. And much of that discussion focused on just two of them.
The subject was the now famous and withdrawn "Underbailey" tweet. And since Sarah Moody posted it, her account had "ballooned" from 673 followers to 1273 at the close of business at the Racing Appeals Disciplinary Board meeting, where the damage of the tweet was vigorously debated.
 
This was like a basketball game starting 98-all with two minutes to go.

In the end, Moody was $1500 lighter in the pocket and it was suggested she would have to budget for more fines in her future Twitter dealings, but the inquiry also allowed her to stoically present the reasons behind the tweet. Not that the RAD Board would ever doubt the "offensive nature" of the tweet, however.

There was always going to be a hint of intrigue about this, if only for the characters who were dragged out in this non-fiction play. There were also plenty of "Underbelly" mentions, despite the fact RAD Board deputy chairman Brian Forrest noting he'd not seen the series.

It also had the absent chief steward Terry Bailey, who was hooked in via telephone from an undisclosed holiday leave location. Racing Victoria had the wrong number, but called called back. It left you wondering, didn't Racing Victoria know the number for their own chief stipe?

And it had the name Moody, wife of champion trainer Peter Moody. Or as she was incorrectly attributed to during proceedings: “Mr Bailey would be aware Mrs Moody is the trainer of Peter Moody.”
Now it might be common knowledge to those who know the Moodys that it is Sarah who wears the black shorts back home at Belgrave South, but it was one many amusing moments
.

The meaning of words and the innuendo behind them were thrashed out, while "hurt feelings" and "crooks" were discussed over a draining three hours. Yet most could read the wind and the outcome when the ball was first bounced.

So welcoming to all at the game at Epsom Road, Flemington was 69-year-old Tom Rutherford (who had his birthday during week) and his own silent protest against Racing Victoria’s integrity department. It had something to do with an old horse-ownership dispute that has left Tom with nothing but a sign and a chair out the front of RV, kicking against the breeze.
 
(Pic: Twitter/@snowyclark)
“I’ve got nothing to lose, I’ve got nothing and I’ve never had so much fun,” said Rutherford.

The very erstwhile, and no doubt expensive, Justin Hooper from the powerful Minter Ellison squad led the Racing Victoria team, declaring the Moody tweet was not only “offensive” to any “reasonable reader” but implied Terry Bailey was a "crook", and that the integrity department was “deceptive” and “out of control”.

Hooper argued that any “reasonable reader” of the tweet would link it directly to that Underbelly TV series, which was of course full of crooks and criminals running amok. Mind you, as Matthew Stirling (representing Moody) pointed out, the series made no reference to corrupt "officials”.

That the integrity department was indeed "under Bailey" was his simple submission.

But how could Terry Bailey be so “offended”, he said, if this was the same man of “strength” and “robustness” who fronted the media after his family home had been shot? At the time, Bailey said it was all part of the job and that everyone should "move on".  :o

At this point, Bailey appeared on the line. After providing his name, "Terrence Glen Bailey", and acknowledging his role, “chairman of stewards", Bailey outlined the offence he took from the tweet.

“This was a slander to me and the integrity department,” Bailey said. "The inference was that 'I’m a crook' and 'on the way out'.

He described the “attacks” as “disappointing when all we are trying to do is our job without fear or favour.”

Bailey conceded in his job that he was open to public criticism and his attitude was to “wear it” and “get on with it”, but that he saw Moody’s "string of behaviour" as disappointing and asked: “How long has the department got to put up with it?”

With that, the chairman of stewards was back on holidays and the “reasonable reader” was back under scrutiny, as was the social media policy and the reach of the rules.

For example: Do social media rules reach a person attending the Melbourne Cup, engaged in an office sweep or indeed simply betting on a race who then makes social media comments that may then defame or “hurt” a person? Yes, was the conceded answer. Yeah, be careful reasonable readers.

Interestingly, the policy makes no mention of owners (e.g. Sarah Moody), but it was more a mention rather than strict interpretation.

And back and forth the parry went about hurt feelings sustained by these 23 words “dripping with innuendo", as Hooper said.

Now, enter Sarah Moody. Did I mention she was stoic? She said she fully understood stewards were there to enforce the rules and regulations and provide a clean racing industry.

And she assured the board that her tweet was unrehearsed.

“Mr Bailey thinks this a personal attack against him," Moody said. "I think it’s more a frustrated reaction to a very long and drawn-out situation that I’ve been involved in. My husband has been openly called a cheat.

“I have three grown daughters who have also been greatly affected by this. As a mother, you can protect your children. My girls on several occasions were extremely upset by what their father has had to go through and how they have had to defend him – to their friends and the general public.

“I am a strong person and put a brave face on, but there have been occasions I need to retaliate with a little bit of an outburst. So I believe my tweet was nothing more than a frustrated reaction to a lot of emotional stress that I’ve been going through.

“I don’t feel it was meant seriously. It was definitely a 'tongue in cheek' tweet to give myself a little bit of sanity and relief. It has been a pretty tough time, and I think I have been extremely controlled.

“I think the occasional tweet has helped me get through all this, no way did I believe my tweet was in any way serious or would have an on-going affect on the way people look at our amazing industry.”

RV’s Hooper eventually expressed sympathy for Sarah Moody’s “context”, but went back to the "reasonable reader’s” interpretation of the tweet. He said it was akin to calling a policeman corrupt, saying a lawyer had no integrity or calling a doctor incompetent.

For Moody, it was nothing more than a “tongue in cheek” comment or “attempted humour, albeit with a barb to it.”

Brad Scott’s recent $30,000 fine got a mention regarding the penalty, as did Eddie McGuire’s recent comments about Caroline Wilson.

In the end, this long-winded case was decided on racing law and interpretation. The outcome was even predicted by Stirling, who nominated the nearest-the-pin mark of $1500 as Tom Rutherford sat out the front of Racing Victoria.

But let's move on. Any "reasonable reader" will tell you racing has far more pressing matters.
X
https://www.g1x.com.au/news/racing/comment-inside-the-moody-twitter-inquiry

Some amusing and confusing details as recountered by G1X Bruce Clark who sat through the RAD board hearing to bring us this insightful inside on what went on and what went wrong.

Well Done Bruce :thumbsup:

Giddy Up :beer:
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jun-30, 05:06 PM
Deleted posts  :lol:

Well done magic. I'll  leave you to contribute to the thread :bleh:
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: HarmersHaven on 2016-Jun-30, 05:42 PM

Critics lacking credibility


The declining relevance of the-is forum


Deleted posts - what a joke.

The prime-antagonist/ :censored: opines that this forum has gone to the dogs, and baselessly suggests that those that are quick to debate (or dare disagree with) his viewpoint lack credibility. Either that or they are industry insiders.

For mine, a forum is a meeting place/gathering (online or real world) whereby people meet, discuss things, debate things, agree on things, disagree on things, teach others, learn from others etc. Communication/information is two-way or multiple directions; not one-way, dictator-style, 'my-way-or-the-highway' rhetoric.

Perhaps the "declining relevance of this forum" is more of his own doing and his own behaviour than he'd care to admit. But what do I know, I'm just a bloke that lacks credibility because I try and use facts/figures/stats/data to offer a differing point of view. On a forum. Who would've thought?
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jun-30, 06:01 PM
Hammers

It's unbelievable as to what has been allowed to pass on this forum, by Magic,  for years and this was shut down.
Your above post is spot on :thumbsup:

You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em.......
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Gintara on 2016-Jun-30, 07:28 PM

For mine, a forum is a meeting place/gathering (online or real world) whereby people meet, discuss things, debate things, agree on things, disagree on things, teach others, learn from others etc. Communication/information is two-way or multiple directions; not one-way, dictator-style, 'my-way-or-the-highway' rhetoric.


 :thumbsup:
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Ascot on 2016-Jun-30, 08:11 PM
The trick is boys to debate the issue and not the personal worth of the poster.  Peter Mair has a much right to post his opinion as you do.  Personally, I can't remember when I agreed with his views, but that is no ground to abuse the bloke.  That is what is outside Harmer's description of the purpose of this place.  MagiC has done the right thing and does not deserve the cynical material you have posted.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jun-30, 08:16 PM
So i guess it was you who objected to my post....rather than peter himself.
Given he never pays any attention to what others say, it must have been you.
Ive seen countless threads containing abuse and you choose to report this

Go figure  :no:
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Ascot on 2016-Jun-30, 08:32 PM
Wily, whoever reported the abuse is irrelevant!!

It was personal abuse, which is outlawed on this Forum.   Since when does your sighting of countless threads containing abuse justify anything???  Anyone should be allowed their views without fear of being abused for it.  Abuse the "view" by all means, but not the poster.   What is difficult about complying with the rules here?
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jun-30, 08:35 PM
Okay. Thank you. It was you

How many posts do you think you've reported over the past 12 months?
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Ascot on 2016-Jun-30, 08:40 PM
Relevance? 

It may be me, it may not.  Are we promoting a culture where reporting of personal abuse, which is against the rules of the Forum, is frowned upon????????  Despite what MagiC has been urging in recent times.

Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: JWesleyHarding on 2016-Jun-30, 08:41 PM
I predicted ages ago that over-moderation was a danger to the forum rather than the reverse.

Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Ascot on 2016-Jun-30, 08:47 PM
So do you think the rules are wrong JWH?

Personal abuse of a fellow forumite is either permissable or it isn't.  Or do you feel a need to quantify it?  A little being acceptable but a lot not perhaps?
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: HarmersHaven on 2016-Jun-30, 08:53 PM
The trick is boys to debate the issue and not the personal worth of the poster. 

Believe me, I try really, really hard on this one. Mods, feel free to pull me up if I ever overstep, I go out of my way to try and not to.

A couple of points:

It's hard to "debate" any issue with Peter as his modus operandi is to simply drop bombs and run. There is no holding to account. There is no debate. There is no exchange.

Please be sure to pull Peter up on his many instances of playing the man, if others are getting the same treatment. His bolded by-line/header earlier in this thread Critics lacking credibility decries anybody that does not share his view (is a critic) and lacks credibility. Another brush-off of his to those with differing views is to label them as 'industry insiders'. Subtle jabs like "not-so-wiley" is playing the man, I would've thought.

Finally, Harmers Haven is a tiny little spot on the map between Phillip Island and Wonthaggi. I have no idea who/what 'Hammers' is.   :lol:

Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Ascot on 2016-Jun-30, 09:00 PM
A regrettable typo that is now repaired sir.

The solution for you, as you appear to be reviled by Peter Mair, is to put him on Ignore.  Very easy to do.  Far better than put personal scorn on the man.  No forumite is bound to debate anything are they?  Mair puts his opinion and leave it there.  He probably can't give a hoot if people agree.  If it irks one too gravely you could always petition for his removal.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: JWesleyHarding on 2016-Jun-30, 09:01 PM
So do you think the rules are wrong JWH?

Personal abuse of a fellow forumite is either permissable or it isn't.  Or do you feel a need to quantify it?  A little being acceptable but a lot not perhaps?

I didn't see the so-called "abuse". My guess is that it wasn't so foul that it warranted deletion.

Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jun-30, 09:02 PM
Relevance? 

It may be me, it may not.  Are we promoting a culture where reporting of personal abuse, which is against the rules of the Forum, is frowned upon????????  Despite what MagiC has been urging in recent times.

Relevance???

Glad to see you finally decide to report abuse after years if clearly sitting on your hands
As to calling someone a disingenuous ..., given the context it was not abuse.

If i am to accept your flawed intervention , magics actions were totally out of line considering what he has ignored. Both reported and not :bulb: :bulb:
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jun-30, 09:03 PM
I didn't see the so-called "abuse". My guess is that it wasn't so foul that it warranted deletion.

You guess correctly
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Ascot on 2016-Jun-30, 09:51 PM
So Wily calling a fellow forumite with an insulting and vulgar retort, just because said person aggrieves you is OK by your standards, despite the rules on this forum.  Yes or no?

And you show sufficient disrespect to ALL in here to repeat the term you originally used AND was which was deleted by MagiC, who is the senior Moderator.  That's two invalid indiscretions in the one post.  I think the term for that is anarchy.  Are you proud of that???  Do others support this behavior??

It alarms me, that is for sure.  It serves no purpose Wily.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Ascot on 2016-Jun-30, 10:03 PM
In common English usage the word is intended to be derogatory or plain insulting.  It is actually vulgar slang for the human vulva,  The British use it to mean obnoxious or stupid.  To use it to describe a forumite can have no other purpose but to be personally insulting and  abusive.   So your intention was clear, and your actions are against the rules of this forum.  It degrades all of us.

And to put Peter Mair on ignore was an easy option.

Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: MagiC~* on 2016-Jul-01, 07:58 AM
Look guys,
The rules are and have always been, play the ball not the man.

Are we all that horrible of people that we can not treat others with respect, even with differing views ?
Wily, you are not immune to reporting people that abuse you, so why can't we all try a little self moderation.

Where are we heading as a society if we can not take the high ground and or be tolerant and respectful of others ?
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jul-01, 08:02 AM
Look guys,
The rules are and have always been, play the ball not the man.


Well, they have never been enforced  :shrug:
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jul-01, 08:06 AM

Wily, you are not immune to reporting people that abuse you, so why can't we all try a little self moderation.


Umm, that would be only one person in my memory and his behavior is condoned and sadly it appears, encouraged by you.

Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jul-01, 08:09 AM
So Wily calling a fellow forumite with an insulting and vulgar retort, just because said person aggrieves you is OK by your standards, despite the rules on this forum.  Yes or no?

And you show sufficient disrespect to ALL in here to repeat the term you originally used AND was which was deleted by MagiC, who is the senior Moderator.  That's two invalid indiscretions in the one post.  I think the term for that is anarchy.  Are you proud of that???  Do others support this behavior??

It alarms me, that is for sure.  It serves no purpose Wily.



So, in that state of alarm you've jumped in and asked for action when I've been personally abused.?
We both know the answer to that is no
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Ascot on 2016-Jul-01, 08:32 AM
Wily, I understand your point, but this sort of stuff just has to stop.  The Forum is losing active members mainly because of the present culture here.  Maybe people have been too tolerant for too long.  The rules have always been there.  When you join here you agree to abide by the rules.  Maybe it IS time to get serious about it and everyone behaves.  People easily forget that this IS a public place.  Our behaviours do get judged by those viewing.

Doing what has always been done is no justification going forward.  Your argument is akin to being pulled over for speeding and crying foul because you have always driven faster than the limit.  If you want rules that can be bent go to another Forum.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: MagiC~* on 2016-Jul-01, 08:35 AM
Umm, that would be only one person in my memory and his behavior is condoned and sadly it appears, encouraged by you.

Stop right there Wily,

You were asked to put him on ignore, but you keep taking him off ignore, you insult him just as much as you are insulted, you can not have it both ways when it suits.

Like I tell my children, it takes two to argue, put FZ on ignore and his insults will stop.

You stop insulting him, and if and when he insults you we will deal with it.

I am so fed up of this whole, my view is so much more important than somebody elses view and if they don't agree with me, then I am just going to call them names.

Before posting insults, if you have a problem with something somebody has posted (except with FZ you either stop insulting him, or be happy with being insulted back, mods are sick of dealing with it to be honest), report it.

I don't get why people think it is OK, to get personal and insulting when on a forum ?

Is this how you speak to your wives and mothers ?

People don't want to see this insulting rubbish, they want to see good honest robust debating.

We are all susceptible to it, but we need to use more restraint and think about what we are typing.

When insulting and attacking another member, it is not only an attack on them, but also an attack on me and on the forum.

I am the one who has to put up with the aftermath, I am the one who has to try and clean up the mess, I am the one that has to mediate a truce, I am the one that in the end is blamed for allowing such things to occur.

So Next time anybody decides to insult and or attack somebody, if you don't care how it affects them, at least take the time to think, how will this affect MagiC.

I have a life outside of this forum and it is not fair on me to be attacked, whether directly and or indirectly.

Everybody is human being, everybody has feelings, these insults and trolling behavior do have an effect, way beyond the intended purpose.

Would love everybody to have a good hard think about how people, even me, can be affected by the crossfire of these stupid spats.

I really don't need the grief  :stop:

Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jul-01, 08:43 AM
Ive got absolutely every right to partake in any thread on this forum. Your mate doesnt contribute, anything outside of the soap box.
I go there, as I like to discuss politics with others like Bubba etc,  but still I get abused by your mate. You do nothing about it. :bulb:
Of course I return serve. Bullies and keyboard heroes like him deserve to be stood up to. Are you seriously saying his conduct is ok?

The solution, magic, is not for me to be constantly attacked, even when I do ignore it.
The solution is, for you, to stop the abuse coming to me :bulb:
That you quickly jum,p in an delete my post to Peter whilst ignoring the other crap which I have complained about to you for a decade, says way too much about the whole situation

Ascot is right Your joints a ghost town now as you've condoned the grubby behaviour, from all participants

Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: MagiC~* on 2016-Jul-01, 08:48 AM
Are you serious Wily ?

How many times have I forced you two onto ignore, but you take yourself off ? correct ?

When I had enforced that, the insults between him and you stopped, so do not play the martyr here, you choose to insult and be insulted, else you would have left him on ignore.

I don't condone his and or you behavior, just got sick of the constant carry on and choose to ignore it because you keep removing the procedures I put in place to fix it.

If you have a problem with him, I will deal with it, but if you take him off ignore again, you will both be place on the moderation watched list, were you posts will have to be approved.

You don't give an "f" about how these childish games are affecting my health and or my family life, if you did, you would have never taken FZ off ignore.

 emthdown
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jul-01, 11:52 AM
Even when i responded to other people. When he was on ignore. He would still abuse me. I was being told what he was saying
You allow it to continue as you clearly support it
Thats sad

How about  i constantly abuse you and ask you to ignore it :bulb:
See how you go with that

Instead of deleting my post about Peter how about you just put me on ignore. Then you wont see it.
Ascot can do the same.

 that's what you suggest i do. Now you do it and see if it works
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Gintara on 2016-Jul-01, 12:19 PM
Wily, I understand your point, but this sort of stuff just has to stop.  The Forum is losing active members mainly because of the present culture here.  Maybe people have been too tolerant for too long.  The rules have always been there.  When you join here you agree to abide by the rules.  Maybe it IS time to get serious about it and everyone behaves.  People easily forget that this IS a public place.  Our behaviours do get judged by those viewing.

Doing what has always been done is no justification going forward.  Your argument is akin to being pulled over for speeding and crying foul because you have always driven faster than the limit.  If you want rules that can be bent go to another Forum.

I don't agree with you about people leaving (that's another issue) Ascot but I agree with you over the behaviour issue. It's not that hard to respect others opinions.

As an aside as a mod it can be hard to please all, recently there was some argy bargy on the Just Racing thread and I stepped in to suggest if anyone has a problem they should use the report function as that is what it's there for, nothing more, nothing less.

Guess what? Next minute there is a complaint to the mod team about over moderation and we shouldn't have said anything! Keep out basically. This came from someone who hadn't contributed but was enjoying the to & fro :shrug:

Sometimes you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.  :confused1:
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: MagiC~* on 2016-Jul-01, 12:39 PM
No wily you don't get it both ways, either stop the personal attacks and report his, or don't report them at all.
I don't read the soap box thread so to suggest I should be all over the problem is insulting and naive.
When you do report anything and mods go take a look, we see you giving as good as you get, so why should we moderate fz when you are doing the exact same thing ?

Like I said, I have placed you and him on each other's ignore list, if he continues to insult you he will be dealt with and vice versa.

If either of you take each other off ignore, then you will both be sin binned and or moderated.

I have so much more on my plate than having to deal with people who get on their computers and start acting like two year old's.

Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Ascot on 2016-Jul-01, 01:24 PM
Now we are getting close to core of the matter.  Boys, just step back a moment from what YOU see as the issue.  Wily quite rightly does not like being abused and believes in tit for tat....like the bloke who gives you the bird in traffic and you toot the horn back to him to return the gesture, we have all done it.  Gintara make valid points about policing from a Mod's point of view.  But the bigger picture tells me that if this is how we present ourselves to the wider audience, and always remember that whatever you post can be seen from anywhere and it is not just a one to one exchange, the general public cannot possibly be impressed.  And that is where the Forum draws its future growth.  Every abusive post you write is a turn off to anyone who does not own your frustration or anger with the person you abuse.

Further it is actually a selfish and cowardly act.  Try abusing someone in a bar and you use a potty mouth.  You will soon get a punch from the target and / or a shirt front and slap from a bouncer.  It is cowardly to do it from a keyboard.  Schoolyard stuff some said earlier.

Don't confuse all this with being politically correct.  It is nothing to do with that (watch the video link below).  It is about presenting our best face in public..........and who doesn't want that. 

  https://www.facebook.com/SteveReichertOfficialPage/videos/1278154775559621/

Ignore is a most misunderstood tool in here.  Imagine a Forum with no PeterMair or Ascot.  Would be like a breath of fresh air wouldn't it?  All done with the press of a button and everyone wins.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jul-01, 03:32 PM
That's all very true Ascot but it does come down to what sort of forum you want. As you said, abuse destroys the feel for many.
I find it astounding that some get punted from here or others have their posts edited whilst others happily run amok and drag the joint down without any consequences.

As to who comes and goes or who's on ignore? that comes down to that individuals value to this joint.
I can give you 2 who add zero value but cause all the issues
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Ascot on 2016-Jul-01, 05:15 PM
Try to think big picture Wily.  I can list about 20 former regular posters who no longer come here.  That is a very significant chunk of regulars to vacate town.  If you poll them as to why, the common theme is the loss of quality in the last 12 months.  When the numbers fall like that and they are not replaced by new recruits, the culture of the place will inevitably change.  That is just simple evolution.  It happens over time in communities and suburbs in our cities and towns.  And with a change in culture those who have left have little motivation to return. 

But the problem is the only way to attract newbies is to ensure the Forum is of sufficient interest and quality for newbies to sign up.  Otherwise it might just be the current regulars who will surely, over time, get bored with each other (no offense intended).  So potty mouth posts of personal abuse and hostility add nothing but demotivation for existing and potential newbies, which any marketing expert will tell you is a recipe for disaster. 

Now what "sort of Forum" people want is in the hands of every poster, not MagiC, not the Mods, not Ascot, not Peter Mair, not even Wily, Fours, Firezuki.   That is an everchanging perception held by members and guests collectively.  Sort of the synergy of the place is the sum of the parts plus some.  If too many of the parts are substandard, then the opposite  will happen and discord and banality will predominate.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jul-01, 05:17 PM
Can't disagree with any of that and that's why the problems need to be fixed.
It's clear what needs to be done
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: MagiC~* on 2016-Jul-01, 06:24 PM
I know what you are suggesting wily, but everybody deserves the opportunity to change just as we all do.

play the ball not the man and if anybody struggles with that, then we will use the new moderation tools available to us to make sure everybody adheres to the new mantra.

The thing is though, people have to want to change.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Peter Mair on 2016-Jul-01, 07:20 PM

An apology -- and then once more unto the breach

Bushwalking in the Blue Mountains, I have been oblivious to this overheated exchange.

For my part it is settled --  'wily' is 'wily'.  FULL STOP!

I apologise 'wily' for any disrespect.

The underlying issues for aracing industry silencing its critics will not go away.

RVL among others can have no complaint with the day-by-day evidence that the administration of racing is institutionally corrupt -- the business is being run in a way intended to take money unfairly from the modest TAB punters that fill a pool drained by insders and professionals.

Just wait for tomorrow -- inflated fields of horses unable to merit the weight and given 'no hope' but always capable of being an imediment to a smaller field of qualified runners that could provide a fair race.

The issue here is 'institutional corruption' -- every one doing their job but working to a business model that corrupts the product: a next step in my mind is for the ACCC to investigate and pull the plug on the nonsense.

Above all is the question of why the industry will not require betting operators -- especially TABs -- to show after each race the readily aavailable evidence of 'which class of punter' won and which lost.

Neither Mrs Moody nor anyone else need to mention anyone by name to make the point that unfairness is ingrained in a business that does not want to find the proof.

............. and for the record........... no one ever believed her husband ever dministered cobalt to the horse............ whoever did was not discovered.



Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Peter Mair on 2016-Jul-06, 01:45 PM


Who got the $1.25+ million that went 'west' on Saturday 2 July


Using the SMH's Shane Montgomery as a benchmark, TAB punters were let off light on Saturday.

In both Melbourne and Sydney, Monty's Top 5 selected 25 of the 36 first-four placegetters in each state and his five selections included the winner in 17 of the 18 races 3 of the quadrellas and a raft of quinella, trifecta and first-four dividends.

Monty is an outstanding tipster -- when he 'misses' a winner in five selections it is worth asking why.

The worst result for punters was the last in Sydney -- a $40,000 F4 dividend and $20,000 quadrella also meant that some $ 1 million went missing from the associated exotic TAB pools in Sydney and Melbourne alone (to say nothing of win/place pools).

TAB punters are entitled to be told where that went -- by class of punter, who were the beneficiaries?

The same goes for races 7 and 8 in Melbourne -- F$ dividends of some $40k and $20k were 'lifted' from TAB pools of some $250,000 across both states:  losing TAB punters would like to know 'who' got that money?

Implicitly these lotto-win outcomes suggest there is something wrong with these races -- were there too many starters for a fair race; did congestion and track condition contribute to unfair outcomes; did the betting and dividend payouts suggest that some punters had 'prior knowledge' about smokeys expected to do well -- etc

Whatever the answers to these questions, the more important point is that they are not asked -- likely wry musing is not converted to proper reviews of the races run and evidence of well-informed and professional betting.

The stewards reports are not usually helpful in this regard -- jockeys inadvertently caught in the melee can be suspended for a problem not of their making.

Implicitly the administrators of racing not only do not ask the questions -- they condone the unfairness and rorting.

That is the 'institutional problem' that is compromising the integrity of the industry -- the rare substance offences pale into insignificance in this broader context while getting 100% of the noise about 'industry integrity'.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: wily ole dog on 2016-Jul-06, 04:52 PM
Favourites won most races and most placegetters were easy to find.
i suggest you stop following the likes of Monty and Richie Callandar and do some form yourself. that has been painfully clear over the past months you've continued this nonssense
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Peter Mair on 2016-Jul-09, 07:46 PM


Monty was on the money again today in Melbourne

.......... all the winners and 25 of the 36 F4 placegetters............ the 2 quadrellas totalling 600, two F4s of 175 each and 3 of the first 4 in 7 of the nine races.

The EQ, Q and BigSux -- paid some 230, 370 and 4,800 respectively.

[ ...rough results in Sydney but Monty had 22 0f the 36 F4 placegetters]
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: westie on 2016-Jul-10, 12:02 AM
I can list about 20 former regular posters who no longer come here.  That is a very significant chunk of regulars to vacate town.  If you poll them as to why, the common theme is the loss of quality in the last 12 months.  When the numbers fall like that and they are not replaced by new recruits, the culture of the place will inevitably change.  That is just simple evolution.  It happens over time in communities and suburbs in our cities and towns.  And with a change in culture those who have left have little motivation to return...................................................
Ascot
Would you mind doing so I am truly interested.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: carey on 2016-Jul-20, 03:07 PM

Finally, Harmers Haven is a tiny little spot on the map between Phillip Island and Wonthaggi. I have no idea who/what 'Hammers' is.    :lol:

surely you would know where harmers haven was, if you decided to use that nick.
kilcunda is between those two joints, but not harmers!
if it's between anywhere it would, be wonthaggi and cape paterson and in the opposite direction to pi.

and i am one who no longer comes here, but i had to set hh straight!!
my only reason for leaving was that i realised it was a waste of my valuable time reading the constant dribble from one particular person in the soap box
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Bubbasmith on 2016-Jul-30, 04:22 PM
Carey, are you still on that WA forum ? Surprisingly your mate is not on that forum.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Arsenal on 2017-Mar-07, 08:01 AM
Michelle Payne likely to be up before the stewards for her comments about Mick Goodie who appears not to take any offence ...says she has abused him previously......two reports on the issue follow.

 https://www.punters.com.au/news/Michelle-Payne-tweets-criticism-of-Flemington-track-manager_157652/

https://www.g1x.com.au/news/racing/michelles-twitter-take-on-flemington-track


Giddy Up :beer:
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: deepthroat on 2017-Mar-07, 02:58 PM
I am all for constructive criticism but if Michelle is NOT reprimanded, then that is clear evidence of 2 rule books by RV
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: gunbower on 2017-Mar-07, 07:28 PM
Does anyone think that it is totally pathetic these days that criticism of people within the Industry is basically outlawed. They bring out the old chestnut about bringing the sport into disrepute. What a load of pious pap. What brings the sport into disrepute are trainers filling their charges up with cobalt , jockeys backing other runners when they are riding something else in the same race, trainers passing on five figure sums of cash to jockeys or trainers , jockeys, media and other assorted shysters flogging  off so called slow horses to other Racing areas to grab a fat commission. They are the ones who bring the game into disrepute not some jockey who was able to put Racing on the front page for all the right reasons.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: tontonan on 2017-Mar-07, 08:18 PM
I agree Gunbower.

We desperately need a new Integrity Department in Victoria...as well as a new head vet.... as well as a new board.... and a new chairman.... and a new CEO.   But that is typical isn't it ?  We need a new everything because the failed incumbents are jut the sort to make it a priority to silence any sort of criticism or even comment that doesn't pump up the tires of their failing corporate wagon.  We have prosecution that are still not resolved after 2½ years, a credibility crisis that is totally out of hand, and the stewards are running around 'shooshing' anyone who they think speaks out of turn.

That is why this forum ( if it ever gets past 'my lunch is better than your lunch') is important.  In Victoria RVL have bought up most of the racing media and have on a string those they don't own.   They have rules to stomp out any criticism from within the industry.

 Independent voices are getting hard to find as administrative competence. 
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: dean on 2017-Mar-07, 08:54 PM
Tontonan as usual you make some very valid points. The sanitization of the Racing media hasn't really helped the Industry. I had a fair bit to do over a long period with the late Wayne Wilson. Most of our relationship was not based on the racetrack. However I well remember him telling me about a luncheon he had addressed where he had not given a glowing assessment of the growth and influence of Sky Channel. What was their reaction ?They banned him for many years. Another point of view was completely frowned upon. Places like this forum , in such an attempted "sanitized" media World are so important because the powers that be lack the ability to belt us up because we just might disagree with them. I know from connections mentioned above how Racing Queensland would retain and attempt to identify anyone who posted on the "Letsgohorseracing "  site. Apparently they also sent memos threatening staff about these dastardly places where other points of view were annunciated. Long may free speech remain.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: nemisis on 2017-Mar-07, 09:08 PM
I agree Gunbower.

 It was clearly an advantage to be on the inside of the Flemington track on Saturday.
 It is very apparent if you watch the final 200 metres of the Guineas.

 Too many big days of Australian racing at Flemington are being affected by the track manager trying to "even things up"

  It is obvious there is a reluctance of anyone of note to criticise much these days and you do wonder about the threat of non-compliance.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2017-Mar-08, 05:10 AM
I agree Gunbower.

 It was clearly an advantage to be on the inside of the Flemington track on Saturday.
 It is very apparent if you watch the final 200 metres of the Guineas.

 Too many big days of Australian racing at Flemington are being affected by the track manager trying to "even things up"

  It is obvious there is a reluctance of anyone of note to criticise much these days and you do wonder about the threat of non-compliance.

My post from the Australian Guineas thread

Hey Doc is drawn to win this. Gets a lovely run and if they are not running on out wide (as is often the case at Flemington) then all the better.


Fence bias has been apparent for some time now - doesn't happen 100% of the time, but still some significant number  :whistle:
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: nemisis on 2017-Mar-08, 05:34 AM
 Well tipped PP7.

It was because so many favoured runners won on Guineas day that there was not a lot of debate about the track.

There is no betting that this Saturday they will be running on down the middle.
I'm sure Mick Goodie will see to that.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Gintara on 2017-Mar-08, 06:45 AM
I've openly criticized some of Mick Goodie's practices on here but always given reasons why and a better solution. I have been in that field for 30 years.

I thought to openly slam the bloke calling for his position to be reviewed by someone totally uneducated in his profession was pretty ordinary, especially considering she wasn't even in the state, let along riding at the meeting.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Arsenal on 2017-Mar-08, 08:33 AM
The tweet has cost her $1500 a significant penalty for so few words of criticism ....if her comments were restricted to track conditions she wouldn't have had a case to answer........it mays to choose your words carefully if a licensee in Victoria ........the rest of us can say what we like within reason ...defamatory comments excluded ....so we all get a pass. :beer:


 Michelle Payne fined after Goodie tweet
Andrew Eddy@fastisheddy

7 March, 2017

Melbourne Cup-winning jockey Michelle Payne has been fined $1500 by Racing Victoria stewards for contravening the industry's social media policy when she was critical of Flemington track manager Mick Goodie via Twitter on Monday.

Payne, who did not ride at last Saturday's Australian Guineas meeting, used Twitter to call for Goodie's position to be reviewed, claiming he prepared a track that wasn't a fair surface.

In a press release on Tuesday evening, Racing Victoria stewards confirmed they interviewed Payne on Tuesday in relation to comments made in a tweet posted by her on her Twitter account.

"Stewards found that the comments posted in her tweet were improper and/or insulting towards Mr Mick Goodie in his official capacity as Flemington Racecourse Manager," read the release.

Payne was fined the sum of $1500 with the undertaking that the tweet would be removed from her Twitter account.

Payne pleaded guilty to a charge under AR175 (j) which reads:

"The Principal Racing Authority (or the Stewards exercising powers delegated to them) may penalise:

(j) Any person guilty of improper or insulting behaviour at any time towards the Principal Racing Authority, the Committee of any Club or Association, or Stewards, or any official or employee of the Principal Racing Authority, Club or Association, in relation to their or his duties."

Last year, Sarah Moody - the wife of then suspended trainer Peter Moody - was fined $1500 for a series of tweets where she attacked the chief steward Terry Bailey.

After posting her tweets on Monday, Payne told Racing.com that horses that raced on the inside few metres on Saturday had a significant advantage and blamed Goodie for his preparation of Australia's most famous racecourse.

"Mowing the grass shorter on the inside because it's different grass, he should put the rail out if he wants to avoid that patch of grass," Payne said.

"He's got 30 metres of track and sometimes you might want to be on three metres of that track.

"It can happen anywhere but it just happens time and time again at Flemington.

"Obviously a very hard job to be a track manager, there's no doubt about that, but this shouldn't be happening so many times on our best track which is a beautiful big, track."

Payne pointed out that the meeting on Derby Day in 2015, three days before she created history as the first female jockey to win the Emirates Melbourne Cup aboard Prince Of Penzance, was a track where a superior inside section created a dangerous situation.

"On Derby Day (2015) you had 30m of the best track in Australia and everybody wants to get to one metre of the track," she said.

"One it's dangerous, but two, what's the point of being there if you've got no chance of winning when the track's racing like that."

Goodie said he didn't want to respond to Payne's comments other than to say he was happy with how the track raced on Australian Guineas Day.

The rail will remain in the true position for this weekend's Super Saturday meeting, which is highlighted by the Australian Cup and Newmarket Handicap.

Giddy Up :beer:
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Peter Mair on 2017-Mar-09, 08:56 PM


RVL is a disgrace

Could 2KSKY have Michelle Payne give a commentary on how Melbourne tracks will play after any meddling has been disclosed -- aerating, watering, 'shaving a fast lane' etc
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Peter Mair on 2017-Mar-11, 06:37 PM


Nothing wrong with Melbourne racing at Flemington

The First4 dividends in the three 'straight' races were 13,000, 37,000 and 10,000 -- nothing wrong with that.

Among the 'no problems' is the uneven track -- big fields -- one lane -- unfair racing.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Peter Mair on 2017-Mar-12, 07:29 AM


Holding back the things that should be said

“I’m not going to say anything I’ll go broke but I hope something comes of it. Or everyone sit around and watch and be happy with what we have” MICHELLE PAYNE posted this on Twitter on Saturday. It comes after she was fined $1500 by Victorian stewards for her social media criticism of Flemington track manager Mick Goodie last week.

The next question is whether the r.c review program this morning will have any explanation for the rough results in the three 'straight ' races yesterday.

Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Peter Mair on 2017-Mar-12, 10:59 AM

Fast lane -- slow learners

Apparently, the key to 'social media' is to always hold the governing body responsible -- RVL  -- and not to mention the names of anyone, including Chauncey Gardenier, who is just being there as the gardener.

The biased -- one lane -- track at Flemington yesterday was the talk of the morning on the R.C race review.

As well David Hayes said a few words -- Hayes: Flemington track 'a nightmare'

Michelle Payne should get her money back -- with a sling for being ahead of the pack.



............ and in another blinding flash of common sense one of the stewards seemed to agree:

Racing Victoria chief steward Terry Bailey said from his viewpoint, there was a bias. "There's probably no doubt that the inside seemed the place to be," Bailey said. "No doubt the [Victoria Racing] Club will review it and there'll be discussions with  [Chauncey] during the week, but I suspect there'll be disappointment with the way it raced. "As far as jockeys are concerned, they ride to wherever they think the superior section is.

One day this insight will extend to the idea that there are too many horses trying get in the fast lane -- and the corollary -- that there should be fewer.

https://www.racing.com/news/2017-03-12/hayes-flemington-track-a-nightmare


Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Peter Mair on 2017-Mar-12, 11:27 AM


........ jockeys and connections should also protest

Unfair racing is unfair to all involved -- jockeys, owners, trainers and punters --  the horses that nominally win has a tainted record and the horses that don't are left pleading for a better record.

I do not know why the stewards and appeal boards are not protesting the money-grubbing driving overcrowded fields -- especially on tight and 'fast lane' tracks.

....... a new board at RVL may be the focal point for complaints ----------as for the current lot .....

Damien Oliver was suspended again yesterday for 'trying to get into the fast lane'  -- and, for getting out of the slow lane on Flying Artie , copping 20 weeks for careless last year.

Jockeys are riding to win in entrapment circumstances inviting offences for which the stewards should take responsibility -- stand a steward down for letting unfair races be run!

Oliver ............... pleaded guilty to a charge of careless riding aboard Exospheric when finishing third in the Group I Australian Cup (2000m).  Oliver allowed Exospheric to shift in when being ridden along near the 150m when insufficiently clear of Tally, causing that horse to be severely checked. Stewards deemed the interference in the mid-range and suspended Oliver for 12 meetings, to commence at midnight on March 13 and expire at midnight on March 23.

Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Peter Mair on 2017-Mar-12, 08:35 PM

The points made are substantial -- and it is worrying that no-one, on the forum,  has agreed.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: napes on 2017-Mar-12, 08:50 PM
I am sure everybody does agree the track was biased. They are also so sick of the dribble you post they have all got you on ignore!  :censored:

There was a fast lane but it was there for every horse to use.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: nemisis on 2017-Mar-12, 09:40 PM
The points made are substantial -- and it is worrying that no-one, on the forum,  has agreed.
I'm sure most people think the Flemington track is a disgrace, Peter.

I thought last week was as bad but there did seem to be some trainers and "form experts" who wanted to tell us differently.

Four favourites in the quaddie legs last week could have supported their case.

Getting angry and not betting are about the choices, problem is a lot of punters had been waiting for Humidor to get to Flemington.
 
Wonder how the turnover went?
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: nemisis on 2017-Mar-12, 10:04 PM
For many years Flemington was" the track"

Caulfield and Moonee Valley suited the on pacers but Flemington would give everyone their chance.
Those days sadly have long gone.

To explain satisfactorily to a non racing person why 15 horses are trying to fit into a couple of metres, would surely be some task.

Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: dean on 2017-Mar-12, 10:29 PM
Nemisis, to me as a punter the best track has to be Sandown. Flemington has some poor starting positions , as well as that silly straight course and of course Michelle's Ivory Tower ;  Mr Goodie. Moonee Valley reminds me of the old Albion Park race course without the sand. I must admit that I have always liked Caulfield. There is nothing quite like the start of a Caulfield Cup with 18 runners jockeying for positions as they go out of the straight. Silly me the donkeys who run the Melbourne Racing Club are trying to put a line through that so they can get every second rater from around the world carrying the same weight. They also want to close down Sandown. There was a time when our racing was the envy of punters around the World. It is obviously the vision of the MRC and the VRC to put a stop to that.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Peter Mair on 2017-Mar-15, 07:37 AM


Give Michelle Payne her money back

Track manager Mick Goodie admits he erred in his track preparation for Super Saturday at Flemington
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Peter Mair on 2017-Mar-15, 07:29 PM


RVL -- there are 'slow learners' and 'no learners'

On Saturday there are four 'dire strait' races with fields of 10 to 14 -- including one in the main quadrella set.

Why would this be permitted after two weeks of unfair nonsense -- do the stewards not have a responsibility to ensure fair racing?

The 'longer' races include 3 with fields of 13 to 16 starters -- again too-many for fair racing on a one-lane track.

When is the promised new RVL board to be appointed -- or is this just letting the current lot explain why they are redundant?

Where is any sense of responsibility for giving the punters a fair go -- anywhere --  especially when the RNSW magicians persist with running its major carnivals in a guaranteed rainy-season that make the running of races at Rosehill unlikely. Talk about horse-ships.


Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Peter Mair on 2017-Mar-19, 08:51 AM




Send PM




« 2017-Mar-15, 07:29 PM Reply #86  »





RVL -- there are 'slow learners' and 'no learners'

On Saturday there are four 'dire strait' races with fields of 10 to 14 -- including one in the main quadrella set.


On Saturday 3 of these 4 races paid F4 dividends across NSW and VIC  -- of some 16,000, 4,500 and 5,500.

Talk about dire straits -- these sprint races should be abandoned until the Flemington straight is fixed.
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: Arsenal on 2018-Jul-06, 08:19 PM
https://www.justhorseracing.com.au/news/australian-racing/michelle-payne-fined-over-controversial-comments/459148

She apologised but copped a $500 fine no freedom of speech permitted........ from memory this is her second criticism of tracks last one was when Mick Goodie was track manager at Flemington.

Payne regrets unfair comment
Andrew Eddy@fastisheddy   4 July, 2018
, (
Melbourne Cup-winning rider Michelle Payne has stepped back from her criticism of the Sandown Hillside surface on Wednesday, claiming on social media it was unfair of her to make comment.

Earlier on her Twitter account, Payne, who admitted she was not on course, voiced her disapproval of the Good 3 rating for the track.

 After considering my comments made today I realise it is unfair of me to be critical of the track when I was not participating. — Michelle Payne (@mj_payne) July 4, 2018
 How are we racing on Good 3’s. Had two runners in June both on good 3’s. Track was not up to standard. Who’s accountable for this? — Michelle Payne (@mj_payne) July 4, 2018
 Track looks like it’s been rolled or something, has no natural bounce. It’s cruel to be racing horses on a surface like that. — Michelle Payne (@mj_payne) July 4, 2018
In March last year, Racing Victoria stewards fined Payne $1500 for her twitter comments concerning the Flemington track, Payne having called for the then track manager Mick Goodie to stand down.

After his win aboard two-year-old Ben Hercules on Wednesday, leading rider Craig Williams said he felt the track was racing like a Good 4 as the horses were able to 'get their toe in'.

Peter Ellis is possibly the most experienced track walker of them all - he was headhunted to work for Darren Weir - and he said he found no problem with the surface on Wednesday.

"The track is a genuine Good 3 with a bit of give which, while unusual at this time of year, is definitely not rock hard," Ellis said.

"I've walked the track three or four times today and it's definitely safe for racing."

Giddy Up :beer:
Title: RVL Silencing the critics
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Jul-07, 12:03 AM
How are we racing on Good 3’s. Had two runners in June both on good 3’s. Track was not up to standard. Who’s accountable for this?

God would be the one accountable for this Michelle.