Racehorse TALK

Thoroughbred Racing Talk => Melbourne Cup => Topic started by: PoisonPen7 on 2012-Nov-07, 01:24 AM

Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2012-Nov-07, 01:24 AM
This is hypothetical race where the participants are "Australian" horses.

There is a bit of debate about what constitutes an "Aussie" horse.

i) We don't accept horses where the connections are rich enough to just go overseas and simply buy raced stock - not egalitarian enough to be classified as "Aussie".

ii) No New Zealanders as well. Not until they become the seventh state.

iii) It is OK if the horse is bred overseas as long as it has done all (or nearly all) of it's racing here. Otherwise we would have some years where we wouldn't get a quorum.

Year 1st 2nd 3rd Notes
2014 Signoff Precedence Fawkner
2013 Fawkner Ethiopia Super Cool
2012 Precedence Niwot Lights Of Heaven
2011 Niwot Precedence The Verminator
2010 Maluckyday So You Think Zipping
2009 Shocking Master O'Reilly Alcopop
2008 Viewed Master O'Reilly Moatize
2007 Efficient Zipping Dolphin Jo
2006 Maybe Better Zipping Mahtoum
2005 Makybe Diva On A Jeune Leica Falcon
2004 Makybe Diva Zazzman Elvestroem
2003 Makybe Diva She's Archie Pentastic
2002 Mr Prudent Pentastic Rain Gauge
2001 Karasi Rain Gauge Sky Heights
2000 Brew Yippyio Freemason
1999 Rogan Josh Lahar (DH) Zazabelle (DH) (DH 2nd)
1998 Tie The Knot Skybeau Perpetual Check
1997 Might And Power Doriemus Markham
1996 Saintly Count Chivas Skybeau
1995 Doriemus Nothin' Leica Dane Coachwood
1994 Paris Lane Oompala Alcove

And their off!
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2012-Nov-07, 01:27 AM
Amazingly, we got the same quinella as last year!

1st Precedence
2nd Niwot
3rd Lights Of Heaven

So Precedence goes into the Hall Of Fame/Shame. Another Cup for Bart.  :no1:

Year 1st 2nd 3rd
2012 Precedence Niwot Lights Of Heaven
2011 Niwot Precedence The Verminator
2010 Maluckyday So You Think Zipping
2009 Shocking Master O'Reilly Alcopop
2008 Viewed Master O'Reilly Moatize
2007 Efficient Zipping Dolphin Jo
2006 Maybe Better Zipping Mahtoum
2005 Makybe Diva On A Jeune Leica Falcon
2004 Makybe Diva Zazzman Elvestroem
2003 Makybe Diva She's Archie Pentastic
2002 Mr Prudent Pentastic Rain Gauge
2001 Karasi Rain Gauge Sky Heights
2000 Brew Yippyio Freemason
1999 Rogan Josh Lahar (DH) Zazabelle (DH) (DH 2nd)
1998 Tie The Knot Skybeau Perpetual Check
1997 Might And Power Doriemus Markham
1996 Saintly Count Chivas Skybeau
1995 Doriemus Nothin' Leica Dane Quick Ransom
1994 Jeune Paris Lane Oompala
1993 Te Akau Nick Great Vintage Fronteir Boy
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2012-Nov-07, 01:32 AM
And isn't this a great advertisement for the great Aussie stayer   emthup

Niwot won last year's Aussie Cup, went on to actually win the Sydney Cup and then runs 2nd in this year's Aussie. Surely he is the best Aussie stayer going around.

Only 7 out of the 18 starters in the Caulfield Cup this year were "Aussie" in another growing trend.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Wenona on 2012-Nov-07, 07:18 AM
And Niwot and Ethiopia were the only two runners actually bred in Australia weren't they?
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Authorized on 2012-Nov-07, 07:50 AM
Jeune ?
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Mullerbeck on 2012-Nov-07, 08:54 AM
Technically speaking, Makybe Diva was also bred in UK and brough to Australia as yearling. Not sure she really qualifies as being an Aussie.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: ianb on 2012-Nov-07, 09:44 AM
 :tin:
Karasi?

I take it purchasing overseas tried horses though doesn't include NZ- Brew, Doriemus and Te Akau Nick all raced in N.Z. before being brought over to Australia.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Authorized on 2012-Nov-07, 11:21 AM
I think New Zealanders should be included as should Makybe Diva. In both cases they brought up and educated in the failing Australian manner.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: The Jackal on 2012-Nov-07, 06:14 PM
I think New Zealanders should be included as should Makybe Diva. In both cases they brought up and educated in the failing Australian manner.

The failing Australian manner seemed to work okay for Efficient, Viewed and Shocking.
Incidentally Green Moon was given exactly the same preparation as stablemate Efficient, a 4 run build up going via the Memsie , Dato Tan Chin Nam , Turnbull  and Cox Plate.
In the past couple of weeks, connections have also mentioned that Efficient would give Green Moon a start and a beating over 2 miles.

One thing we do know is that UK training methods will not get them over the line in this race. 
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Jeunes on 2012-Nov-07, 06:41 PM
Jeune ?

Don't insult the great horse.

He was "naturalised".   :lol:
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: manikato1 on 2012-Nov-07, 06:49 PM
One thing we do know is that UK training methods will not get them over the line in this race. 

What a ridiculous statement.  2nd and arguably the run of the race this year, second last year.  A horse from OS will again win the Cup first up over here, their record is too good not to.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Authorized on 2012-Nov-07, 07:00 PM
The failing Australian manner seemed to work okay for Efficient, Viewed and Shocking.
Incidentally Green Moon was given exactly the same preparation as stablemate Efficient, a 4 run build up going via the Memsie , Dato Tan Chin Nam , Turnbull  and Cox Plate.
In the past couple of weeks, connections have also mentioned that Efficient would give Green Moon a start and a beating over 2 miles.

One thing we do know is that UK training methods will not get them over the line in this race. 

Jackal, what is the Aussie method between birth and the racetrack ?

This is where the Australian stayer is losing out.

Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2012-Nov-07, 07:23 PM
Jeune ?

The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup has evolved over the years. Whereas today Jeune would be classified as an international blow-in, back in those days he was a rarity so we keep him as one of ours.

Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2012-Nov-07, 07:25 PM
Technically speaking, Makybe Diva was also bred in UK and brough to Australia as yearling. Not sure she really qualifies as being an Aussie.

Aussie Muller.

She would have no memory of her time in the mother country, and never had any accent.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: bolt_babe on 2012-Nov-07, 08:48 PM
Karasi was definitely a ring in too.. Did early racing in the UK
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Authorized on 2012-Nov-13, 05:04 AM
I reckon this is the thread to keep track of promising Aussie and New Zealand bred and developed stayers on their way towards the Cup, bearing in mind they need a rating of 103/104 to get in the cup above and beyond the idea they need to qualify.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Authorized on 2013-Oct-30, 08:35 PM
Who will be left standing this year ?
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: The Carnegie Express on 2013-Oct-30, 08:55 PM
Fawkner

 

Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: vedder on 2013-Oct-30, 10:09 PM
Hawkspur.... maybe? :what:
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: The Carnegie Express on 2013-Oct-30, 10:17 PM
Isn't he sired from us breeds?

Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: vedder on 2013-Oct-30, 10:27 PM
Sire Purrealist is Aussie bred although sire is from the US (http://www.breednet.com.au/stallions/sire-data.asp?sire=Purrealist) and quite sure dam is Aussie bred. Horse was born in Australia.

To me, that's 'Aussie'! :thumbsup:
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Draven39 on 2013-Oct-30, 10:56 PM
Why are we even bothering with this anymore?

All the top trainers over here go with the Euro bred's to have a chance in the Cup. It used to be NZ where they looked to, now it's Europe. Even if they are foaled here, you look at the breeding and it will be o/s based when it comes to stayers.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: wily ole dog on 2013-Oct-31, 06:44 AM
Even the sprinters mate

The days of the "colonial" breed and gone....sadly.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2013-Nov-04, 11:05 PM
Year 1st 2nd 3rd Notes
2012 Precedence Niwot Lights Of Heaven
2011 Niwot Precedence The Verminator
2010 Maluckyday So You Think Zipping
2009 Shocking Master O'Reilly Alcopop
2008 Viewed Master O'Reilly Moatize
2007 Efficient Zipping Dolphin Jo
2006 Maybe Better Zipping Mahtoum
2005 Makybe Diva On A Jeune Leica Falcon
2004 Makybe Diva Zazzman Elvestroem
2003 Makybe Diva She's Archie Pentastic
2002 Mr Prudent Pentastic Rain Gauge
2001 Karasi Rain Gauge Sky Heights
2000 Brew Yippyio Freemason
1999 Rogan Josh Lahar (DH) Zazabelle (DH) (DH 2nd)
1998 Tie The Knot Skybeau Perpetual Check
1997 Might And Power Doriemus Markham
1996 Saintly Count Chivas Skybeau
1995 Doriemus Nothin' Leica Dane Coachwood
1994 Paris Lane Oompala Alcove
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2013-Nov-04, 11:08 PM
This year's field:

Ethiopia
Fawkner
Super Cool
Hawkspur
Dear Demi

Does that look right?

Precedence should have been included in the field because he ran in the first two in the last two runnings.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Draven39 on 2013-Nov-04, 11:51 PM
Of those five, I only consider Fawkner, Hawkspur, and Dear Demi to be any chances at winning or placing in the actual race with all the rest of the non-aussies that are running.

Ironically with it all being said, myself included, on how the quality staying types nowadays that are winning the Cup are either internationals, purchased directly from Europe to be raced here as in the case of last years winner Green Moon, or whose bloodlines are full of the best Europe have to offer, tonight I find myself with 20 odd youtube windows currently open, covering great Melbourne Cup races ranging from 1981 to last year.

I hate handicap racing, and yet I can't deny the love I feel for this race.

Doesn't matter where the horses were bred or born or trained that are running in it, we still have the best damn 2 mile race in the world and that is never going to be taken from us.  :love:
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Authorized on 2013-Nov-04, 11:59 PM
Why do you hate handicap racing ?

Some numskulls here will have you believe that I hate handicap racing but that could not be further from the truth. I love handicap racing, it is simply no way to conduct group 1, 2 or 3 racing.

It is a great shame our trainers have lost the art of developing stayers.

If we have a look at tomorrow and Saturdays Flemington 2yo races they are chock full of stamina pedigrees putting a lie to the idea our breeders do not have stamina families.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Draven39 on 2013-Nov-05, 12:38 AM
I guess it's because to me it shouldn't be at the top level of racing, which it is over here.

I don't consider myself to be a punter, I bet occasionally, but from a very young age I fell in love with horse racing and it had nothing to do with betting and winning money. Hell, when I first fell in love with it, I was far too young to even bet, I guess it was the theatre of it that drew me in. Dulcify and The King are a big part of what drew me in with the Cox Plate. Too young to bet, too young to understand or worry about how the track at MV plays it's part, but not too young to go 'Wow' and be hooked.

The Cup, well it's an institution and I can remember as far back as being in primary school and watching the King get beat in 1982 by Gurners Lane, and in my last year in primary school getting Black Knight in the cup sweep in 84. I just loved racing, only started to bet in 88 when I got my brother in law to place one for me when we were there at Flemington on Empire Rose. That just made it more fun. 1990 I was still only 17 so got my sister to put a bet on me on Sydeston in the Caulfield Cup that year, and again, was happy that he won. And I kept backing him in every race after that, regardless, because I loved the horse.

I'm not a punter because for one, I hate losing money so I never bet a lot, just small amounts and only the main races at Spring Racing carnival time. And so rarely on horses at short odds because I don't see the point if you are betting a small amount. For me, it just adds a bit more excitement to it when watching the race, but I'm the type of person that stands up and claps and cheers what I consider to be great moments of racing, despite the fact I had no money on the horse and the one I did back fell back through the field on the corner. Like when the Diva won her third cup, anytime Black Caviar raced (irrespective of how they never really tested her aside from the Ascot foray), Media Puzzle, even Atlantic Jewel recently when she returned from injury. I just love racing.

Bringing that back to why do I hate handicap racing? Because I believe that in racing, the best horses should win. And to me, to have horses the same age or above four years of age racing against each other, and to give one 8 kilos more than the other, just because it's a better quality horse with a better race record, and then to have the inferior horse with the lesser weight win and beat the quality horse? That to me is just stupid. It's rewarding horses of lesser quality, and punishing horses of quality and that are, or could be champions.

It's not so bad now, but look at what they did to Phar Lap? How many Melbourne Cups might he have won, if the powers that be hadn't decided to weigh him completely out of the race after he won his first Cup?

As you say, maybe handicap racing has some place in racing, but definitely at the lower levels. It's why our really great horses are forced to restrict themselves to racing only at WFA. In a handicap they would be unfairly weighted out of it to horses that are not even at their level.

Europe or the UK at least seem to have it worked out right. Correct me if I'm wrong, but their handicap races are never at group level. The group races are run at either WFA or set weights?

And for me, that is exactly how it should be.

Sorry for the long winded explanation.   :embarrassed:

EDIT: To illustrate the point, and to enter fantasy land, but say for example if Frankel was entered and ran in the Emirates Stakes, what sort of weight would he get allocated, and would you want a horse like Like Bolt with 52kg on his back beating him due to the weight difference??  :bleh:
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: The Jackal on 2013-Nov-05, 01:01 AM
UK racing is shithouse, they race for peanuts and too many magic millions type restricted races at age group level like er, um the Epsom Derby, the Guineas.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Draven39 on 2013-Nov-05, 01:14 AM
UK racing is shithouse, they race for peanuts and too many magic millions type restricted races at age group level like er, um the Epsom Derby, the Guineas.

Sorry mate, I'm a proud aussie and all, but big purses doesn't always equal quality.

We have some great races that I am very proud of. We also have too many G1's, far too many G1's that are handicaps.

You mention the Epsom Derby and the Guineas being age restricted at group level? What the  :censored:  do you call the Victorian Derby and Caulfield Guineas??! I believe they are G1 3 year old age restricted races, are they not?

And if UK racing was shithouse, then why are so many of our top trainers happily encouraging and taking owners and syndicates over there to buy their stock and bring them back to race over here?

You're deluded I'm sorry to say.. as great as our racing is and as much as I love it, particularly the Cox Plate, I am under no illusions that the greatest horse race in the world is the Arc.  :p
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: The Jackal on 2013-Nov-05, 01:22 AM
The English version of the Derby and Guineas are not open to geldings, it's just a bludge to get questionable quality a gig at stud.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: The Jackal on 2013-Nov-05, 01:27 AM
The Arc is a restricted race as well, hence the reason why the winners there fail as soon as they hit the Far East.

Highest quality race in the world is the Japan Cup, has been for decades now.

More money = higher quality, always has, always will.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Draven39 on 2013-Nov-05, 01:43 AM
Yes, and that's why trainers all over the world are rushing to get their hands on some pure Australian bloodlines.... oh wait...   :lol:

Oh, and the Japanese believe their Japan Cup is the highest quality race, of course. That is why they have been so desperate to try to win the Arc, over and over again in recent years, failing to do so.

As far as your argument that more money = higher quality, well then, that means the Dubai World Cup is the world's greatest horse race with the best horses ever to race,  now doesn't it?  ;)

Get used to it Jackal... if the English ever decided to send their very best top liners over here against ours, it would be competitive, up to a mile at least, maybe even as far as 2000m. But any further, it wouldn't be pretty. You would finally understand why our top trainers keep looking to Europe for staying types and the blood lines.

Oh, and I love BC, but against Frankel at a mile? Glad we never got to see it.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Authorized on 2013-Nov-05, 03:28 PM
Fawkner.....................54.5................................1st
Ethiopia......................54.5................................1 length
Super Cool................54.5.................................1.75 lengths
Dear Demi.................51....................................8.85 lengths
Hawkspur..................53.5.................................13 lengths

Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: el zoro on 2013-Nov-05, 03:34 PM
On TV they were hailing an Aussie victory beating the Internationals who ran 2nd 3rd 4th 5th.   :clap2:
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: arakaan on 2013-Nov-05, 03:38 PM
Oh, and I love BC, but against Frankel at a mile? Glad we never got to see it.

Are you that worried the pom's couldn't handle losing. They have a long history of it. I'm sure they would've accepted the loss with grace.   :biggrin:
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Draven39 on 2013-Nov-05, 03:51 PM
Are you that worried the pom's couldn't handle losing. They have a long history of it. I'm sure they would've accepted the loss with grace.    :biggrin:  

No, as a very proud aussie I'm glad it didn't happen so she was able to retire unbeaten  :beer:
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: firezuki on 2013-Nov-05, 07:25 PM
On TV they were hailing an Aussie victory beating the Internationals who ran 2nd 3rd 4th 5th.   :clap2:

Crowded House were also an excellent Aussie band. 
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Draven39 on 2013-Nov-05, 08:08 PM
And Russell Crowe is an excellent Aussie actor.   :biggrin:

That's how it works doesn't it? Spend five minutes here and we claim you as our own  ;)
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: el zoro on 2013-Nov-05, 08:10 PM
Maybe the accent on the Aussie victory today was the trainer & jockey involved.   
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: chalky on 2013-Nov-05, 08:14 PM
And Russell Crowe is an excellent Aussie actor.   :biggrin:

Nope, bloke is a pumped up Kiwi  :censored: !
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: firezuki on 2013-Nov-05, 08:15 PM
Maybe the accent on the Aussie victory today was the trainer & jockey involved.   

Which would be fine if Olly had ridden Gai to a memorable win instead of riding the Pommy horse.    :lol:  
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: wily ole dog on 2013-Nov-05, 08:19 PM
On TV they were hailing an Aussie victory beating the Internationals who ran 2nd 3rd 4th 5th.   :clap2:

Oh dear
 Bloody German stallion out of an Irish mare and we are claiming it :chin:
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2013-Nov-05, 11:13 PM
Year 1st 2nd 3rd Notes
2013 Fawkner Ethiopia Super Cool
2012 Precedence Niwot Lights Of Heaven
2011 Niwot Precedence The Verminator
2010 Maluckyday So You Think Zipping
2009 Shocking Master O'Reilly Alcopop
2008 Viewed Master O'Reilly Moatize
2007 Efficient Zipping Dolphin Jo
2006 Maybe Better Zipping Mahtoum
2005 Makybe Diva On A Jeune Leica Falcon
2004 Makybe Diva Zazzman Elvestroem
2003 Makybe Diva She's Archie Pentastic
2002 Mr Prudent Pentastic Rain Gauge
2001 Karasi Rain Gauge Sky Heights
2000 Brew Yippyio Freemason
1999 Rogan Josh Lahar (DH) Zazabelle (DH) (DH 2nd)
1998 Tie The Knot Skybeau Perpetual Check
1997 Might And Power Doriemus Markham
1996 Saintly Count Chivas Skybeau
1995 Doriemus Nothin' Leica Dane Coachwood
1994 Paris Lane Oompala Alcove
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: wily ole dog on 2013-Nov-06, 06:37 AM
I didn't think Ethiopia could pull that run out after his form this prep
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: el zoro on 2013-Nov-06, 09:00 AM
Not sure how what the definition of Aussie is on this list.

Everyone knows Makybe Diva was European bred & brought over here.
Doriemus a Kiwi horse & Karasi an Irish horse. Both born & raced in their countries before coming over.

On that basis, Fiorente has to be an Aussie too.    :lol:  
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Authorized on 2013-Nov-06, 09:24 AM
I didn't think Ethiopia could pull that run out after his form this prep

Except for the fact he looked to my eye to be sore on Saturday (obviously I was wrong) he alsway had it in him. I am glad his tactic have been changed back to waiting tactic.

It was a superb run yesterday. He settled for most of the journey but was than asked to travel the widest and the longest coming around the bend from the 1600m. The fact he sustained it and even got a second wind in the straight was outstanding.

Hopefully he is set for the Adelaide and Sydney cups double.

Genuine top class stayer.

Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: The Jackal on 2013-Nov-06, 05:49 PM
He will never win another race. His run was only evidence of what a poor bunch of plodders were on display.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: manikato1 on 2013-Nov-06, 05:51 PM
Except for the fact he looked to my eye to be sore on Saturday (obviously I was wrong) he alsway had it in him. I am glad his tactic have been changed back to waiting tactic.

It was a superb run yesterday. He settled for most of the journey but was than asked to travel the widest and the longest coming around the bend from the 1600m. The fact he sustained it and even got a second wind in the straight was outstanding.

Hopefully he is set for the Adelaide and Sydney cups double.

Genuine top class stayer.

Actually, I think he might be a Flemington specialist.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: The Jackal on 2013-Nov-06, 06:01 PM
Actually I should have qualified that a bit more.

He will never win another race........... not on the flat anyway.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Gintara on 2013-Nov-06, 06:36 PM
I didn't think Ethiopia could pull that run out after his form this prep

There was a glimmer on Saturday when he went back and did run on a bit. Still not many sane could have had him.

To be honest, I can't understand how anyone has rated him  :shrug:

Actually I should have qualified that a bit more.

He will never win another race........... not on the flat anyway.

Gee what a difference 12 months makes  :whistle:
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: The Jackal on 2013-Nov-06, 07:07 PM
The subsequent record of what he beat in the AJC Derby is woeful  to boot.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: wily ole dog on 2013-Nov-06, 07:50 PM
Given his Derby win the sydney cup should be his only target. I bet they make that moronic decision many of them come up. Short Autumn with next spring in mind.
He wont win a MC but a SC is a strong option
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2014-Oct-20, 05:42 PM
Time to drag this thread out of the closet.

In the current markets, I count Brambles and Hawkspur under 50-1  :shy:

Will we get a runner?

Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: MagiC~* on 2014-Oct-20, 08:01 PM
Does Fawkner not count PP ?
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2014-Oct-20, 08:54 PM
Does Fawkner not count PP ?

Missed him - was thinking he was one of Lloyd's imports.....
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2014-Nov-04, 11:41 PM
We will declare Signoff the winner of this year's Aussie Melbourne Cup. Well done to Darren Weir.

Honorouble mentions to Precedence and Fawkner. Precedence appears for the third time!

Year 1st 2nd 3rd Notes
2014 Signoff Precedence Fawkner
2013 Fawkner Ethiopia Super Cool
2012 Precedence Niwot Lights Of Heaven
2011 Niwot Precedence The Verminator
2010 Maluckyday So You Think Zipping
2009 Shocking Master O'Reilly Alcopop
2008 Viewed Master O'Reilly Moatize
2007 Efficient Zipping Dolphin Jo
2006 Maybe Better Zipping Mahtoum
2005 Makybe Diva On A Jeune Leica Falcon
2004 Makybe Diva Zazzman Elvestroem
2003 Makybe Diva She's Archie Pentastic
2002 Mr Prudent Pentastic Rain Gauge
2001 Karasi Rain Gauge Sky Heights
2000 Brew Yippyio Freemason
1999 Rogan Josh Lahar (DH) Zazabelle (DH) (DH 2nd)
1998 Tie The Knot Skybeau Perpetual Check
1997 Might And Power Doriemus Markham
1996 Saintly Count Chivas Skybeau
1995 Doriemus Nothin' Leica Dane Coachwood
1994 Paris Lane Oompala Alcove
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: fours on 2014-Nov-05, 04:27 AM
Hmmmmm,

Maybe the TAB could hold a separate pool(s) for betting on the 'aussie' outcome for the MC.

Easily done using existing but different codes even greyhound or trot codes not used on the day already.

Fours
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: The Jackal on 2014-Nov-05, 07:56 AM
We will declare Signoff the winner of this year's Aussie Melbourne Cup. Well done to Darren Weir.

Honorouble mentions to Precedence and Fawkner. Precedence appears for the third time!

Year 1st 2nd 3rd Notes
2014 Signoff Precedence Fawkner
2013 Fawkner Ethiopia Super Cool
2012 Precedence Niwot Lights Of Heaven
2011 Niwot Precedence The Verminator
2010 Maluckyday So You Think Zipping
2009 Shocking Master O'Reilly Alcopop
2008 Viewed Master O'Reilly Moatize
2007 Efficient Zipping Dolphin Jo
2006 Maybe Better Zipping Mahtoum
2005 Makybe Diva On A Jeune Leica Falcon
2004 Makybe Diva Zazzman Elvestroem
2003 Makybe Diva She's Archie Pentastic
2002 Mr Prudent Pentastic Rain Gauge
2001 Karasi Rain Gauge Sky Heights
2000 Brew Yippyio Freemason
1999 Rogan Josh Lahar (DH) Zazabelle (DH) (DH 2nd)
1998 Tie The Knot Skybeau Perpetual Check
1997 Might And Power Doriemus Markham
1996 Saintly Count Chivas Skybeau
1995 Doriemus Nothin' Leica Dane Coachwood
1994 Paris Lane Oompala Alcove


If it's legitimate Aussie Breds, it's Fawkner 2 years in a row and Niwot for the 2 years preceding that.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2014-Nov-05, 08:34 AM

If it's legitimate Aussie Breds, it's Fawkner 2 years in a row and Niwot for the 2 years preceding that.

Nothing to do with breeding - see OP.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Authorized on 2015-Apr-23, 05:55 PM
If we take out Sign Off who ran 3rd ?
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: tontonan on 2015-Apr-23, 08:55 PM
I figure it is Unchain My Heart (16th) but PP may find differently.

I  have always loved this idea bit have never been to keen on the rubbery criteria.   

I like it so much I am stealing it for my blog and amending the criteria to include New Zealanders but exclude all horses born north of the line unless their entire racing careers are conducted in Australia. 

Applying that criteria retrospectively At Talaq and  Beldale Ball and Backwood are excluded pre-1993 but Comedy King and Kingston Rule remain. 

The 1986 Australasian Cup would have resulted -  Rising Fear 1st; Sea Legend (NZ) 2nd; Kiwi (NZ) 3rd;
The 1980 Australasian Cup would have resulted  - My Blue Denim (NZ) 1st; Love Bandit 2nd; Magistrate (NZ) 3rd;
The 1924 Australasian Cup would have resulted -  Stand By 1st; Spearfelt 2nd; Lilypond 3rd;




Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: tontonan on 2015-Apr-23, 09:47 PM
Couldn't help myself.  I had to do it. 

The Australasian Cup
(Melbourne Cup from 1993 with horses bred north of the line that did not begin their racing careers in Australasia excluded)

1993 - Te Aku Nick (NZ) 1st; Mercator (NZ) 2nd; Great Vinatge (NZ) 3rd

1994 - Paris Lane 1st; Oompala (NZ) 2nd ; Double Take (NZ)3rd

1995 - Doriemus (NZ) 1st; Nothin'Leica Dane 2nd; Coachwood (NZ) 3rd;

1996 - Saintly 1st; Count Chivas (NZ) 2nd; Skybeau (NZ) 3rd;

1997 - Might and Power (NZ) 1st; Doriemus (NZ) 2nd; Markham 3rd;

1998 - Jezabeel (NZ) 1st; Champagne (NZ) 2nd; Tie The Knot 3rd;

1999 - Rogan Josh 1st; Lahar & Zazabelle (NZ) = 2nd

2000 - Brew (NZ) 1st; Yippyio 2nd; Second Coming 3rd;

2001 - Ethereal (NZ) 1st; Maythehorsebewithu (NZ) 2nd; Rain Gauge 3rd;

2002 - Mr.Prudent 1st; Pentastic 2nd; Distinctly Secret (NZ) 3rd;

2003 - Makybe Diva (GB) 1st; She's Archie 2nd; Pentastic 3rd;

2004 - Makybe Diva (GB) 1st; Zazzman (NZ) 2nd; Elvstroem 3rd;

2005 - Makybe Diva (GB) 1st; On a Jeune 2nd; Xcellent (NZ) 3rd;

2006 - Maybe Better 1st; Zipping 2nd; Mahtoum 3rd;

2007 - Efficient (NZ) 1st; Zipping 2nd; Dolphin Jo 3rd;

2008 - Viewed 1st; Master O'Reilly(NZ) 2nd; Moatize 3rd;

2009 - Shocking 1st; Master O'Reilly (NZ) 2nd; Harris Tweed (NZ) 3rd;

2010 - Maluckyday (NZ) 1st; So You Think (NZ) 2nd; Zipping 3rd;

2011 - Niwot 1st; Precedence (NZ) 2nd; The Verminator 3rd;

2012 - Precedence (NZ) 1st; Niwot 2nd; Lights of Heaven (NZ) 3rd;

2013 - Fawkner 1st; Ethiopia 2nd; Super Cool 3rd;

2014 - Who Shot Thebarman (NZ) 1st; Precedence (NZ) 2nd; Fawkner 3rd;


The main difference to the Aussie Cup is the wins of the Kiwis Jezabeel , Ethereal and Who Shot Thebarman, and the exclusion of Karasi.


Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Wenona on 2015-Apr-24, 08:09 AM


I like it so much I am stealing it for my blog and amending the criteria to include New Zealanders but exclude all horses born north of the line unless their entire racing careers are conducted in Australia.  




Or New Zealand?


I also feel more comfortable with your criteria.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Authorized on 2015-Apr-24, 11:12 AM
I agree, Its always been the Australasion Melbourne Cup so I like the idea as well.   emthup
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Authorized on 2015-Sep-20, 02:48 PM
73x62307x605HAPPY TRAILSG8Paul Beshara72=55.5kg4
601111151x7MONGOLIAN KHANH4Murray Baker655kg3
17103x5442x7WHO SHOT THEBARMAN (NZ)G7Chris Waller1754.5kg5
76221112x01COMPLACENTH5John O'Shea7654kg5.5
7520x7433x13ROYAL DESCENTM6Chris Waller74=53.5kg4.5
13421x0628x0PREFERMENT (NZ)H4Chris Waller1353.5kg4.5
318782123x8xPRINCE OF PENZANCE (NZ)G6Darren Weir3153kg6.5
18226x122x62RISING ROMANCE (NZ)M5David Hayes & Tom Dabernig1853kg5
32111112x708TAIYOOG6Darren Weir3253kg6.5
336798x21x0xSERTORIUSG8Jamie Edwards3352.5kg7
264618411x00MAGICOOLG4Mark Kavanagh2652kg6
827x0556x5x0PRECEDENCE (NZ)G10James Cummings81=52kg7.5
293x21172x00BONDEIGERH4Danny O'Brien2951.5kg6.5
7911122x24x1DISPOSITIONG4Lee & Anthony Freedman77=51kg7
8014x2111x50HI WORLDH4Peter G Moody77=51kg7
214x1141x98GUST OF WIND (NZ)M4John Sargent2151kg5.5
22111x230x25SET SQUAREM4Ciaron Maher2251kg5.5
461362x893x0LIKE A CAROUSELG6Ken Keys4651kg8.5
475200281x97ESCADOG6Matt Laurie4751kg8.5
504256184183CRAFTY CRUISERG8Bryce Stanaway5051kg8.5
8311x6650x55KIRRAMOSA (NZ)M5John Sargent81=50.5kg7.5
410673510x0xPONDAROSA MISS (NZ)M5Peter Hollinshead4150.5kg7.5
5736x12212x0SENSE OF OCCASIONG5Joseph Pride5750.5kg9
548x09115x0xBRING SOMETHINGG5Ken Keys5450.5kg9
5523x8761x0xLA AMISTADM6Michael, Wayne & John Hawkes5550kg9
432x0535x868THUNDER LADY (NZ)M4John Sargent4350kg8
593322211x0xGENUINE LADG5Robert Smerdon5950kg9.5
621212146x0xMAYGROVEG5Murray Baker6250kg9.5
6422x96834x7CELTIC PRINCE (NZ)H6Bjorn Baker6450kg9.5
66750840x479IHTSAHYMNG5Patrick Payne6650kg9.5
69x125236x35KINGDOMS (NZ)G6Brian Smith6950kg9.5
70357x214x0xLET’S MAKE ADEALM6Nigel Blackiston7050kg9.5
91154x2121x6BOHEMIAN LILY (NZ)M4Gai Waterhouse88=50kg9
92346Lx64461ALBONETTIM6Sue Jaensch92=50kg9.5
94343x034x30AWESOME ROCKH4Leon & Troy Corstens92=50kg9.5
9588174x7BIKILAG4Pat Carey92=50kg9.5
9913x34441x6DE LITTLE ENGINEG5Danny O'Brien92=50kg9.5
1003144273x00DESERT ROADG5Robbie Laing92=50kg9.5
1023x10x3DIVAN (NZ)G4Robert Hickmott92=50kg9.5
1031x07130x40DON DOREMO (NZ)G5Robbie Laing92=50kg9.5
106x530x4311xEMERALD CITYG5David Vandyke92=50kg9.5
1084700x88x00ETHIOPIAG7Pat Carey92=50kg9.5
109641846x97xFALAMONTE (NZ)M5Henry Dwyer92=50kg9.5
111x0x0083x54GERONTIUSG6David Hayes & Tom Dabernig92=50kg9.5
112x813111x5xGESEMI (NZ)M5Murray Baker92=50kg9.5
11440x030x36xHAPPY AS HELLG5Terry & Karina O'Sullivan92=50kg9.5
1165104110xHIGH MIDNIGHTG4James Cummings92=50kg9.5
120842494x11xMAGNAPALG6Terry & Karina O'Sullivan92=50kg9.5
12313213xMASTER OF ARTS (NZ)H4Darren Weir92=50kg9.5
1256315x17NAZIR (NZ)G4James Cummings92=50kg9.5
126524005102xPOP ’N’ SCOTCHG5Liam Birchley92=50kg9.5
127212216x041PURPLE SMILEG5David Hayes & Tom Dabernig92=50kg9.5
1294612156x2RULING DYNASTYH4James Cummings92=50kg9.5
1311586x7xSAN PADREH4Michael Kent92=50kg9.5
1323983211x74SASENKILEG5Tony McEvoy92=50kg9.5
1333361514712SIR MAKO (NZ)G8Chris Waller92=50kg9.5
1350056947719THUNDER SETG7Vince Jones92=50kg9.5
13668121x9609TURNER BAYOU (NZ)G7Patrick Payne92=50kg9.5
1383x31159x6xZADONG5Robbie Griffiths92=50kg9.5
14014x23314x8ZANTECA (NZ)M6Darren Weir92=50kg9.5
14163115734xZARZALIM4James Cummings92=50kg9.5
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2015-Sep-20, 07:54 PM
Like the HKJC, my authority has been usurped on this matter  :tears:
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2015-Sep-29, 03:31 AM
From the Tatts market for the Melbourne Cup (29/9/15)

https://tatts.com/sports/horse-racing/horse-racing/melbourne-cup

The qualified "Aussie" horses under 50-1 are (and happy to be corrected if I've missed any):

Preferment $21
Royal Descent $26
Hauraki $31
Complacent $35
Gust Of Wind $35
Set Square $41
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Peter Mair on 2015-Sep-29, 07:09 AM


A two-in-one option

It would be interesting and possible for Tabcorp to notionally divide the Cup into two fields -- the RVL one and an Australian one.

I would prefer to bet on a race restricted to locally trained horses with well disclosed local form.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2015-Oct-21, 09:15 PM

A two-in-one option

It would be interesting and possible for Tabcorp to notionally divide the Cup into two fields -- the RVL one and an Australian one.

I would prefer to bet on a race restricted to locally trained horses with well disclosed local form.

Actually Pete. That's not a bad idea   emthup

Trouble is you mightn't get enough runners to pay 3 places.

TABs mightn't do it but certainly the corporates could.

Looking at the latest order of entry, I think for the Aussie Melbourne Cup:

Definites

Criterion
Preferment
Gust Of Wind

Possibles

Set Square
Magicool
Bondeiger
Prince Of Penzance

Hauraki won't run.

Does Who Shot Thebarman qualify as an Aussie? Had his first 9 starts in New Zealand but has had his last 15 starts in Australia. I spoke to him yesterday and he has definitely lost the kiwi accent.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: qwertyu1234567 on 2015-Oct-22, 09:32 AM
Happy Trails  :whistle:
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Peter Mair on 2015-Oct-22, 09:44 AM


Horses from the 7th state are obviously 'Australian'  -- and rules on when an immigrant foreign horse is given citizenship would need to be set.

Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2015-Nov-02, 01:35 PM
Win betting only this year  :tears:

No Last 10 Horse Trainer Jockey Barrier Weight Penalty Hcp Rating
1 23x7x116x5 SNOW SKY (GB) Sir Michael Stoute Ryan Moore 16 58kg
115
2 x32135x612 CRITERION (NZ) David Hayes & Tom Dabernig Michael Walker 4 57.5kg
116
3 x61x01x2x6 FAME GAME (JPN) Yoshitada Munakata Zac Purton 12 57kg
113
4 1016x7x923 OUR IVANHOWE (GER) Lee & Anthony Freedman Ben Melham 22 56kg
112
5 115x47117x BIG ORANGE (GB) Michael Bell Jamie Spencer 23 55.5kg
110
6 7x2114x465 HARTNELL (GB) John O'Shea James McDonald 17 55.5kg
112
7 38x05x36x0 HOKKO BRAVE (JPN) Yasutoshi Matsunaga Craig Williams 20 55.5kg
110
8 1244F7221x MAX DYNAMITE (FR) William Mullins Frankie Dettori 2 55kg
109
9 726x52073x RED CADEAUX (GB) Ed Dunlop Gerald Mosse 8 55kg
109
10 x411121352 TRIP TO PARIS (IRE) Ed Dunlop Tommy Berry 14 55kg
109
11 x5442x7587 WHO SHOT THEBARMAN (NZ) Chris Waller Blake Shinn 6 54.5kg
109
12 x46xD1x1x2 SKY HUNTER (GB) Saeed Bin Suroor William Buick 7 54kg
108
13 60x8x15541 THE OFFER (IRE) Gai Waterhouse Damien Oliver 13 54kg
108
14 89431x0750 GRAND MARSHAL (GB) Chris Waller Jim Cassidy 15 53.5kg
106
15 x0628x0119 PREFERMENT (NZ) Chris Waller Hugh Bowman 11 53.5kg
113
16 201x2112x0 QUEST FOR MORE (IRE) Roger Charlton Damian Lane 21 53.5kg
107
17 5416x50671 ALMOONQITH (USA) David Hayes & Tom Dabernig Dwayne Dunn 10 53kg 1.0kg 105
18 266x412x38 KINGFISHER (IRE) Aidan O'Brien Colm O'Donoghue 9 53kg
106
19 2123x85582 PRINCE OF PENZANCE (NZ) Darren Weir Ms Michelle Payne 1 53kg
105
20 12122 BONDI BEACH (IRE) Aidan O'Brien Brett Prebble 18 52.5kg
112
21 98x21x0069 SERTORIUS Jamie Edwards Craig Newitt 5 52.5kg
101
22 x3x0x12261 THE UNITED STATES (IRE) Robert Hickmott Joao Moreira 3 52.5kg 2.5kg 104
23 5x11x57221 EXCESS KNOWLEDGE (GB) Gai Waterhouse Kerrin McEvoy 24 51kg
101
24 x1141x9804 GUST OF WIND (NZ) John Sargent Chad Schofield 19 51kg
104
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: whispering on 2015-Nov-02, 06:48 PM
Odd they dont have grand marshall in the aussie trained betting, insted its under any other runner. Would have a good go at that being first aus past the post.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2015-Nov-04, 06:29 AM
Aussie Melbourne Cup placings this year a

1. Prince Of Penzance  :no1:
2. Criterion
3. Gust Of Wind
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2016-Oct-30, 03:51 PM
One shy of the ultimate embarrassment  :shy:

No Last 10 Horse Trainer Jockey Barrier Weight Penalty Hcp Rating
1 7x5x23x11x BIG ORANGE (GB) Michael Bell Jamie Spencer 7 57kg
117
2 0x5501x586 OUR IVANHOWE (GER) Lee & Anthony Freedman Dwayne Dunn 6 57kg
116
3 x300x620x9 CURREN MIROTIC (JPN) Osamu Hirata Tommy Berry 18 56.5kg
116
4 1220x11x33 BONDI BEACH (IRE) Aidan O'Brien Ryan Moore 5 56kg
116
5 1413x18353 EXOSPHERIC (GB) Lee & Anthony Freedman Damien Oliver 13 56kg
117
6 50x5x21112 HARTNELL (GB) John O'Shea James McDonald 12 56kg
123
7 0324x65272 WHO SHOT THEBARMAN (NZ) Chris Waller Hugh Bowman 20 56kg
115
8 3333x26431 WICKLOW BRAVE (GB) William Mullins Frankie Dettori 24 56kg
117
9 x9065x8084 ALMOONQITH (USA) David & B Hayes & T Dabernig Michael Walker 19 54.5kg
112
10 069x031x27 GALLANTE (IRE) Robert Hickmott Blake Shinn 2 54.5kg
114
11 8533x72691 GRAND MARSHAL (GB) Chris Waller Ben Melham 9 54.5kg
115
12 5324x47121 JAMEKA Ciaron Maher Nicholas Hall 3 54.5kg 2.0kg 119
13 00x101x11x HEARTBREAK CITY (FR) Tony Martin Joao Moreira 23 54kg
113
14 2x1322x210 SIR JOHN HAWKWOOD (IRE) John P Thompson Blake Spriggs 14 54kg 1.5kg 114
15 17x20x9834 EXCESS KNOWLEDGE (GB) Gai Waterhouse & Adrian Bott Vlad Duric 21 53.5kg
111
16 x6153x1553 BEAUTIFUL ROMANCE (GB) Saeed Bin Suroor Damian Lane 1 52.5kg
110
17 x221x66511 ALMANDIN (GER) Robert Hickmott Kerrin McEvoy 17 52kg 1.0kg 108
18 8x1153x921 ASSIGN (IRE) Robert Hickmott Ms Katelyn Mallyon 22 52kg 1.0kg 104
19 32x1837x82 GREY LION (IRE) Matt Cumani Glen Boss 16 52kg
107
20 11x4017x31 OCEANOGRAPHER (GB) Charlie Appleby Chad Schofield 11 52kg 1.0kg 107
21 361x2x12x1 SECRET NUMBER (GB) Saeed Bin Suroor Stephen Baster 10 52kg
112
22 3254x06737 PENTATHLON (NZ) John Wheeler Mark Du Plessis 4 51.5kg
102
23 22x0Fx22x1 QEWY (IRE) Charlie Appleby Craig Williams 15 51.5kg 0.5kg 107
24 62102x0940 ROSE OF VIRGINIA (NZ) Lee & Shannon Hope Ben E Thompson (a) 8 51kg
100
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Authorized on 2016-Oct-30, 03:55 PM
Don't we include our neighbours ?
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: tontonan on 2016-Oct-30, 04:37 PM
That's just so sad.

I think you should invoke the ancestry clause to get Who Shotthebarman a run. 

He has a mighty colonial pedigree that dates back to Georgiana in 1842 at the former convict butcher Charlie Smith's Bungarribee Stud at Doonside.  The family crossed the Tasman around the turn of the century but his dam sire is Carolingian, a Bletchingly from Cena, and Cena's bloodline goes all the way back to Dinah who was the mother of Musidora who  started in five Melbourne Cups,  was ancestress of Newhaven who won the Cup in 1896 and was the dam of Briseis who won the Cup in 1876.

He would make a fine Aussie Melbourne Cup winner.

Shame he has drawn 20.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: JWesleyHarding on 2016-Oct-30, 05:27 PM
Surely Excess Knowledge qualifies.

Been here 3 1/2 years having 19 of 25 starts here.

Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2016-Oct-30, 07:38 PM
Nope. No allowance for "long term residents", or New Zealanders, or New Zealanders with Australian ancestry.

That means I don't have to wait until after the race to post the table update.

Barring the scratching of Jameka....get used to this I reckon.  :sad:

Year 1st 2nd 3rd Notes
2016 Jameka Insufficient Starters Insufficient Starters
2015 Prince Of Penzance Criterion Gust Of Wind
2014 Signoff Precedence Fawkner
2013 Fawkner Ethiopia Super Cool
2012 Precedence Niwot Lights Of Heaven
2011 Niwot Precedence The Verminator
2010 Maluckyday So You Think Zipping
2009 Shocking Master O'Reilly Alcopop
2008 Viewed Master O'Reilly Moatize
2007 Efficient Zipping Dolphin Jo
2006 Maybe Better Zipping Mahtoum
2005 Makybe Diva On A Jeune Leica Falcon
2004 Makybe Diva Zazzman Elvestroem
2003 Makybe Diva She's Archie Pentastic
2002 Mr Prudent Pentastic Rain Gauge
2001 Karasi Rain Gauge Sky Heights
2000 Brew Yippyio Freemason
1999 Rogan Josh Lahar (DH) Zazabelle (DH) (DH 2nd)
1998 Tie The Knot Skybeau Perpetual Check
1997 Might And Power Doriemus Markham
1996 Saintly Count Chivas Skybeau
1995 Doriemus Nothin' Leica Dane Coachwood
1994 Paris Lane Oompala Alcove
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: JWesleyHarding on 2016-Oct-30, 08:08 PM
iii) It is OK if the horse is bred overseas as long as it has done all (or nearly all) of it's racing here.


I'd say 19 of 25 is "nearly all".
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: gunbower on 2016-Oct-30, 08:39 PM
It just goes to show how the VRC have allowed one of our great National days to be murdered. I can't contain my excitement at the thought of one of these Godolphin horses winning the Melbourne Cup. Its bad enough that these oil rich sheiks screw us every day when we put fuel in our cars and yet we
welcome them here with open arms to participate and maybe even steal one of our remaining National treasures. Its like Cricket Australia playing the Boxing Day Test between India and Pakistan.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: nemisis on 2016-Oct-30, 09:10 PM
It just goes to show how the VRC have allowed one of our great National days to be murdered. I can't contain my excitement at the thought of one of these Godolphin horses winning the Melbourne Cup. Its bad enough that these oil rich sheiks screw us every day when we put fuel in our cars and yet we
welcome them here with open arms to participate and maybe even steal one of our remaining National treasures. Its like Cricket Australia playing the Boxing Day Test between India and Pakistan.
Gunbower,
The opportunity is there for any Australian breeder to breed staying horses.

I don't know of any commercial sons of Galileo or Montjeu that even stand in this country.
Even Green Moon was sent back to Ireland.

They could make the Mel. Cup 1600 metres and then I'm sure you'll see plenty of locals.

Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: gunbower on 2016-Oct-30, 09:35 PM
Nemisis I know we will never go back. All I am saying is that is that the charm of the Cup was the stories behind the winners. The school teacher who owned Rogan Josh and gave it to Bart. Snowy Lupton whose horse rounded up cattle  ; Kiwi. The comeback jockey on Kensei and last year's story which you couldn't script. This year the Race is filled with the property developers European imports and  a host of some Sheiks horses. Loses a lot in my opinion.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Authorized on 2016-Oct-30, 09:39 PM
Nemisis I know we will never go back. All I am saying is that is that the charm of the Cup was the stories behind the winners. The school teacher who owned Rogan Josh and gave it to Bart. Snowy Lupton whose horse rounded up cattle  ; Kiwi. The comeback jockey on Kensei and last year's story which you couldn't script. This year the Race is filled with the property developers European imports and  a host of some Sheiks horses. Loses a lot in my opinion.

The problem is not that Australia does not breed stayers it simply does not develop stayers.

Another problem is that the VRC or whatever they are called have tried to make it a Group 1 race when it should be a handicap.



Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: JWesleyHarding on 2016-Oct-31, 07:04 AM
Another problem is that the VRC or whatever they are called have tried to make it a Group 1 race when it should be a handicap.

Auth giving that old chestnut of his another hit-out.



Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: nemisis on 2016-Oct-31, 07:37 AM
Nemisis I know we will never go back. All I am saying is that is that the charm of the Cup was the stories behind the winners. The school teacher who owned Rogan Josh and gave it to Bart. Snowy Lupton whose horse rounded up cattle  ; Kiwi. The comeback jockey on Kensei and last year's story which you couldn't script. This year the Race is filled with the property developers European imports and  a host of some Sheiks horses. Loses a lot in my opinion.
Gunbower,
I know what you mean but the chance to breed a Doriemus still exists, maybe not in Australia.

 Golden Woods the dam of Doriemus was by Zamazaan and was sent to the knackery before Doriemus raced.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Authorized on 2016-Oct-31, 07:47 AM
Auth giving that old chestnut of his another hit-out.

You know it's true.

Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: pegasyber on 2016-Oct-31, 01:09 PM
  Even the Computer cant make sense of this Melbourne Cup with 8 and 9 year olds and those with no recent racing notified makes a mockery of this assortment.  Cant'send emails out for two days now????.
  Good luck may just have to watch this one.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Authorized on 2016-Oct-31, 06:27 PM
.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Authorized on 2016-Oct-31, 06:28 PM
FLEMINGTON (MELBOURNE CUP 2016 - TOP AUSSIE) Information
Tuesday 01/11/2016
3:00 PM
Win
Hartnell (Top Aussie)   
3.00
Jameka (Top Aussie)   
4.40
Almandin (Top Aussie)   
6.00
Exospheric (Top Aussie)   
10.00
Almoonqith (Top Aussie)   
13.00
Who Shot Thebarman (Top Aussie)   
17.00
Grand Marshal (Top Aussie)   
21.00
Our Ivanhowe (Top Aussie)   
21.00
Gallante (Top Aussie)   
26.00
Grey Lion (Top Aussie)   
26.00
Assign (Top Aussie)   
41.00
Excess Knowledge (Top Aussie)   
41.00
Sir John Hawkwood (Top Aussie)   
41.00
Pentathalon (Top Aussie)   
67.00
Rose Of Virginia (Top Aussie)   
67.00
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: pegasyber on 2016-Nov-01, 08:08 AM
  Sorry about that stuff up, but Telstra seems to have it in for me around The Melbourne Cuup time.

  Never been so underwhelmed by a Melbourne Cup field; have not even arranged our special Melbourne Cup luncheon of Prawns, Chocolate Eclairs and Champagne;  but the computers selectíons should be fixed so that we can check just how good the Internationals are against our one true Aussie entrant  No 12  Jameka.

VF250916 MC70111F * RACE NAME ID* [ MC70111F  MELBOURNE CUP 2016,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 3200 mtrs]. COMPRUN 10-30-2016. AT 06:28:01 RESULT  [                 ] FILE MC70111SPFAC.TXT

  * THE GENERAL SPEED SYSTEM ANALYSIS.  PROBLEM THIS YEAR WITH OVERSEAS HORSES AND THEIR DAYS SINCE AND DISTANCE CHANGE A PROBLEM.

VF250916 MC70111F * WMSPD ORD TNO [    1    3    8   20   13   23   16   10    6   19    5   12   18    9   14   15    2   17    7   22   24   11   21    4   ]  * ] BMVRS/W [  1 BIG ORANGE W  6yo <. Dtl= 94 ] 20 OCEANOGRAPHE  5yo <. Dtl= 3 ] ]*SPL*

VF250916 MC70111F * GW$CLASS$ ORD [   12    10    3    6    11    1    2    7    4    5    16    15    14    21    9    18    20    23    17    8    13    19    22    24   ].  7 WHO SH 10d  700m -1k  8y]  [ 12 JAMEKA 17d  800m  2k  4y]  [ 2 OUR IV 17d  800m  .5k  7y]  [ 21 SECRET 46d  1188m -5k  7y.

VF250916 MC70111F * L600 FSPD T10 [    1    8   11   12   13   17   18   20   21   23   19    7    4    5    9   15    2   16    3   14    6   22   10   24   ]* BFT2[  17 ALMAND Rk x12 Ln x0. ] *BMVRF[  12 JAMEKA Rk x8  Ln X0. ] [ 18 ASSIGN Rk x6  Ln x0. ] n [ 0  Rx0  Ln x0. ] ESP. for VERY HEAVY!.

VF250916 MC70111F * SIMUL PACE ALL[    1   13    3   20   19   23   18   12    5    9   16    2   14   17   22   24    6    8    7   11   21    4   15   10   ] *BPT4 [  18 ASSIGN x6 ] *BMVRP [ 19 GREY L x5 [  12 JAMEKA x4 ] REL/SPWM. USEFUL IN DST/DEAD/SLOW esp. A TOP4 Ln*

VF250916 MC70111F * KEY SPEED NOS [   1  8  13 ? 20 * =*NK*. .]>1.  11  12 * 3 ?y. ] *HiWM>GW$C [ < 7<. < 12 4y< ]. *N1/2W<<SP= 12  10  << 18  12 <<=BDUPL. *BP%P*= 4<: ]. <<] ]CKCNT.


  * THE STATISTICAL FACTORS SYSTEM ANALYSIS *.  IT IS NOT UNUSUAL THAT THE WINNER IS FOUND IN TOP TWO IN FOLLOWING LINE. IE. [   6  HARTNELL  AND  12  JAMEKA.  ]

SF050916 MC70111W * STANDOUT FACT2[  6  HARTNELL[100 NOW *STANDOUT* DUE problems ?DD?&?DC? for NO  12 JAMEKA[95] on GOOD 3200mtr Trk.

SF050916 MC70111W * SPCL SLODS ON [  6  HARTNELL[1 10ds. $1. << BLOW << $14.8. TRK=GOOD   20  OCEANOGRAP 3ds. $1.9. << BLOW << $14.1. TRK=GOOD  ] DBLCHK RUFF4$ WIN
SF050916 MC70111W * SOLE SUPA SPL [  20  OCEANOGRAPHER[94] W% 36 55  5yo. Won T   WTCHG -2 Kg. [ 0 ] ** F4 ABSOLUTE BOX.  E/WAY BET AT $ 5/1.)

SF050916 MC70111W * TOP8 FACTORS. [  6  12  20  7  19  21  10  18  23  4  15  ]  TOP6* Best.+SUPDUPL[ 18  12 ] CHK WTs.NO 6 -3kg. AND  NO 12  2kg.  ?TICK?

SF050916 MC70111W * BEST FACT/KSN [  6 12 20 7 / KSN   1 * 8  13 ? 20 ** =*NK*. .]>1.  9 * 19  23 * 3 ?y. ]  ] REMOVE/MARK PROBS MAX OF 7.

  #  PERHAPS IN THIS CASE THE TOP SEVEN ARE [   6   12   20   7   1   8   9   ]  AND CONSIDERING THE 8 AND 9 YEAR OLDS AND THE GREATER THAN 25 DAYS SINCE LAST RUN ???.

 *  iN THE LINE ABOVE WE SEE ALMOST NO RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE SPEED ANALYSIS AND THE FACTORS ANALYSIS. EXCEPT FOR NO 20 OCEANOGRAPHER.

  * POSSIBLE BETS  [  6  12  20  7  10  ]  AND  CHECK T5TTL  [   17   12   4   2   9   ]  RE-CHECK LRWD  [   20  17   18  1   10  ]
  If I am silly enough to have a first four it would be  [   6  12  4  rvbnkr  ]  x  [  as many of the rest  in the above line, you can afford ]  $20 oops? would give you about 10% but only if it wins; then you might be able to buy a Nutribullet or Flavorstone.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2017-Nov-06, 01:23 AM
A field of 3 going around this year. Some sort of outside chance we may have the winner  :(

No Last 10 Horse Trainer Jockey Barrier Weight
1 x2822x1229 HARTNELL (GB) James Cummings Damian Lane 12 57.5kg
2 665111x214 ALMANDIN (GER) Robert Hickmott Frankie Dettori 14 56.5kg
3 212x681352 HUMIDOR (NZ) Darren Weir Blake Shinn 13 56kg
4 242x11711x TIBERIAN (FR) Alain Couetil Olivier Peslier 23 55.5kg
5 232x1521x6 MARMELO (GB) Hughie Morrison Hugh Bowman 16 55kg
6 1132x11x5x RED CARDINAL (IRE) Andreas Wohler Kerrin McEvoy 24 55kg
7 3x45712x23 JOHANNES VERMEER (IRE) Aidan O'Brien Ben Melham 3 54.5kg
8 x11x330x90 BONDI BEACH (IRE) Robert Hickmott Michael Walker 1 54kg
9 1x2x30x91x MAX DYNAMITE (FR) William Mullins Zac Purton 2 54kg
10 121x5x7620 VENTURA STORM (IRE) David & B Hayes & T Dabernig Glen Boss 6 54kg
11 3642x94491 WHO SHOT THEBARMAN (NZ) Chris Waller Tommy Berry 20 54kg
12 0x81424440 WICKLOW BRAVE (GB) William Mullins Stephen Baster 8 54kg
13 113x550214 BIG DUKE (IRE) Darren Weir Brenton Avdulla 5 53.5kg
14 428x320386 US ARMY RANGER (IRE) Joseph O'Brien Jamie Spencer 22 53.5kg
15 6510x39341 BOOM TIME David & B Hayes & T Dabernig Cory Parish 9 53kg
16 031x270x07 GALLANTE (IRE) Robert Hickmott Michael Dee 18 53kg
17 746Px61652 LIBRAN (IRE) Chris Waller Dwayne Dunn 7 53kg
18 202x024x1x NAKEETA (GB) Iain Jardine Glyn Schofield 19 53kg
19 2612x05442 SINGLE GAZE Nick Olive Ms Kathy O'Hara 11 53kg
20 11x6248x22 WALL OF FIRE (IRE) Hugo Palmer Craig Williams 15 53kg
21 9P01712x72 THOMAS HOBSON (GB) William Mullins Joao Moreira 21 52kg
22 210x140124 REKINDLING (GB) Joseph O'Brien Corey Brown 4 51.5kg
23 214x839410 AMELIE’S STAR Darren Weir Dean Yendall 10 51kg
24 2325210331 CISMONTANE (NZ) Gai Waterhouse & Adrian Bott Beau Mertens (a) 17 50kg
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Authorized on 2017-Nov-06, 08:15 AM
My trifecta

Boom Time
Amelie's Star
Single Gaze

 :)
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Gintara on 2017-Nov-06, 09:46 PM
My trifecta

Boom Time
Amelie's Star
Single Gaze

 :)

I'll go


Amelie's Star
Single Gaze
Boom Time

Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2017-Nov-06, 09:52 PM
I'll go


Amelie's Star
Single Gaze
Boom Time

What happened to Amelies in the Caulfield Cup? Thought she got a pretty cheap lead from out wide and surprised she folded up so quickly  :what:

Very disappointing.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Gintara on 2017-Nov-06, 10:02 PM
Ridden too close, she's better sitting back further and launching  :chin:
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2017-Nov-06, 10:58 PM
My apologies here. There are actually 4 Aussie runners

No Last 10 Horse Trainer Jockey Barrier Weight 3200 m Record Longest Win
1 x2822x1229 HARTNELL (GB) James Cummings Damian Lane 12 57.5kg 4:1-0-1 3219
2 665111x214 ALMANDIN (GER) Robert Hickmott Frankie Dettori 14 56.5kg 1:1-0-0 3200
3 212x681352 HUMIDOR (NZ) Darren Weir Blake Shinn 13 56kg 0:0-0-0 2000
4 242x11711x TIBERIAN (FR) Alain Couetil Olivier Peslier 23 55.5kg 0:0-0-0 3000
5 232x1521x6 MARMELO (GB) Hughie Morrison Hugh Bowman 16 55kg 0:0-0-0 3000
6 1132x11x5x RED CARDINAL (IRE) Andreas Wohler Kerrin McEvoy 24 55kg 2:2-0-0 3219
7 3x45712x23 JOHANNES VERMEER (IRE) Aidan O'Brien Ben Melham 3 54.5kg 0:0-0-0 2011
8 x11x330x90 BONDI BEACH (IRE) Robert Hickmott Michael Walker 1 54kg 2:0-0-0 2816
9 1x2x30x91x MAX DYNAMITE (FR) William Mullins Zac Purton 2 54kg 9:1-4-0 3419
10 121x5x7620 VENTURA STORM (IRE) David & B Hayes & T Dabernig Glen Boss 6 54kg 0:0-0-0 2500
11 3642x94491 WHO SHOT THEBARMAN (NZ) Chris Waller Tommy Berry 20 54kg 8:1-2-1 3200
12 0x81424440 WICKLOW BRAVE (GB) William Mullins Stephen Baster 8 54kg 19:7-1-2 3420
13 113x550214 BIG DUKE (IRE) Darren Weir Brenton Avdulla 5 53.5kg 1:0-0-1 2600
14 428x320386 US ARMY RANGER (IRE) Joseph O'Brien Jamie Spencer 22 53.5kg 1:0-0-0 2474
15 6510x39341 BOOM TIME David & B Hayes & T Dabernig Cory Parish 9 53kg 1:0-0-0 2500
16 031x270x07 GALLANTE (IRE) Robert Hickmott Michael Dee 18 53kg 2:1-0-0 3200
17 746Px61652 LIBRAN (IRE) Chris Waller Dwayne Dunn 7 53kg 2:0-1-0 2600
18 202x024x1x NAKEETA (GB) Iain Jardine Glyn Schofield 19 53kg 1:0-1-0  2816
19 2612x05442 SINGLE GAZE Nick Olive Ms Kathy O'Hara 11 53kg 0:0-0-0  2200
20 11x6248x22 WALL OF FIRE (IRE) Hugo Palmer Craig Williams 15 53kg 2:0-0-0 2920
21 9P01712x72 THOMAS HOBSON (GB) William Mullins Joao Moreira 21 52kg 5:2-1-0 4014
22 210x140124 REKINDLING (GB) Joseph O'Brien Corey Brown 4 51.5kg 0:0-0-0 2816
23 214x839410 AMELIE’S STAR Darren Weir Dean Yendall 10 51kg 0:0-0-0 2500
24 2325210331 CISMONTANE (NZ) Gai Waterhouse & Adrian Bott Beau Mertens (a) 17 50kg 0:0-0-0 2500

I'll go Cismontane to beat Single Gaze and Boom Time.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2018-May-20, 05:02 PM
Mentioning the Aussie Melbourne Cup on the other thread reminded me I hadn't updated this thread last year:

Year 1st Actual Finish 2nd Actual Finish 3rd Actual Finish Actual Winner Notes
2017 Cismontane 13 Amelies Star 14 Boom Time 15 Rekindling
2016 Jameka 15 Insufficient Starters
Insufficient Starters
Almandin
2015 Prince Of Penzance 1 Criterion 3 Gust Of Wind 6 Prince Of Penzance
2014 Signoff 4 Precedence 6 Fawkner 10 Protectionist
2013 Fawkner 6 Ethiopia 7 Super Cool 9 Fiorente
2012 Precedence 9 Niwot 15 Lights Of Heaven 16 Green Moon
2011 Niwot 8 Precedence 11 The Verminator 13 Dunaden
2010 Maluckyday 2 So You Think 3 Zipping 4 Americain
2009 Shocking 1 Master O'Reilly 4 Alcopop 6 Shocking
2008 Viewed 1 Master O'Reilly 4 Moatize 6 Viewed
2007 Efficient 1 Zipping 4 Dolphin Jo 5 Efficient
2006 Maybe Better 3 Zipping 4 Mahtoum 6 Delta Blues
2005 Makybe Diva 1 On A Jeune 2 Leica Falcon 4 Makybe Diva
2004 Makybe Diva 1 Zazzman 3 Elvestroem 4 Makybe Diva
2003 Makybe Diva 1 She's Archie 2 Pentastic 4 Makybe Diva
2002 Mr Prudent 2 Pentastic 5 Rain Gauge 8 Media Puzzle
2001 Rain Gauge 6 Sky Heights 8 Reenact 9 Ethereal
2000 Yippyio 2 Freemason 6 Celestial Show 7 Brew
1999 Rogan Josh 1 Lahar (DH) 3 Zazabelle (DH) 3 Rogan Josh (DH 3rd)
1998 Tie The Knot 6 Skybeau 8 Perpetual Check 9 Jezabeel
1997 Might And Power 1 Markham 3 Linesman 5 Might And Power
1996 Saintly 1 Skybeau 3 Nothin' Leica Dane 5 Saintly
1995 Nothin' Leica Dane 2 Coachwood 5 Beaux Art 6 Doreimus
1994 Paris Lane 2 Alcove 5 Grass Valley 8 Jeune
1993 Frontier Boy 5 Tennessee Jack 6 Our Pompeii 14 Vintage Crop
1992 Subzero 1 Star Of The Realm 7 London Bridge 9 Subzero
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Oct-21, 02:26 PM
Bump.

At this stage, in the top 24 from the ballot order, we have:

- Humidor Not an Aussie.
- Ace High
- Youngstar
- Egg Tart
- Big Duke Not an Aussie.

then a long way down to Miss Admiration at 38th. Who Shot Thebarman has raced in Australia since 2014 and most would consider him an Aussie but not here. He is 9th on the order.

Would be surprised if Humidor started. And probably Ace High as well after his weak effort yesterday.

Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: sobig on 2018-Oct-21, 02:58 PM
Big Duke is an import PP
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Oct-21, 03:10 PM
Big Duke is an import PP

 :sad:
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Nov-05, 02:02 PM
No Last 10 Horse Trainer Jockey Barrier Weight
1 x3195x1111 BEST SOLUTION (IRE) Saeed Bin Suroor Pat Cosgrave 6 57.5kg
2 x512433x43 THE CLIFFSOFMOHER (IRE) Aidan O'Brien Ryan Moore 9 56.5kg
3 57x150x11x MAGIC CIRCLE (IRE) Ian Williams Corey Brown 17 56kg
4 5x211250x0 CHESTNUT COAT (JPN) Yoshito Yahagi Yuga Kawada 4 55.5kg
5 1796x4341x MUNTAHAA (IRE) John Gosden Jim Crowley 13 55.5kg
6 144x1132x0 SOUND CHECK (GER) Michael Moroney Jordan Childs 16 55.5kg
7 x6731x7694 WHO SHOT THEBARMAN (NZ) Chris Waller Ben Melham 18 55.5kg
8 5462x02410 ACE HIGH David Payne Tye Angland 22 55kg
9 1x69x2112x MARMELO (GB) Hughie Morrison Hugh Bowman 10 55kg
10 3326x11114 AVILIUS (GB) James Cummings Glyn Schofield 11 54.5kg
11 2x436013x1 YUCATAN (IRE) Aidan O'Brien James McDonald 23 54.5kg
12 56164x5266 AUVRAY (FR) Richard Freedman Tommy Berry 1 54kg
13 13x655x1x3 FINCHE (GB) Chris Waller Zac Purton 15 54kg
14 x5x0x08030 RED CARDINAL (IRE) Darren Weir Damien Oliver 5 54kg
15 21x05x4059 VENGEUR MASQUE (IRE) Michael Moroney Patrick Moloney 2 54kg
16 7829x79401 VENTURA STORM (IRE) David & B Hayes & T Dabernig Mark Zahra 7 54kg
17 2188632x31 A PRINCE OF ARRAN (GB) Charlie Fellowes Michael Walker 20 53kg
18 1x5x005770 NAKEETA (GB) Iain Jardine Regan Bayliss 3 53kg
19 4513x01473 SIR CHARLES ROAD Lance O'Sullivan & Andrew Scott Dwayne Dunn 14 53kg
20 58402x0080 ZACADA (NZ) Murray Baker & Andrew Forsman Damian Lane 24 53kg
21 231130x341 RUNAWAY Gai Waterhouse & Adrian Bott Stephen Baster 12 52kg
22 11113x6327 YOUNGSTAR Chris Waller Craig Williams 8 51.5kg
23 11x24112x CROSS COUNTER (GB) Charlie Appleby Kerrin McEvoy 19 51kg

 :shy:
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: nemisis on 2018-Nov-05, 02:34 PM
You might need to check out the bona fides of Charles Road PP7.

By Myboycharlie out of a Giant's Causeway mare.......I'm sure he was conceived and sold here.

Can stay a bit too!
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Nov-05, 02:40 PM
You might need to check out the bona fides of Charles Road PP7.

By Myboycharlie out of a Giant's Causeway mare.......I'm sure he was conceived and sold here.

Can stay a bit too!

This was discussed back in the thread a bit.

We decided only horses that have raced here all their racing careers are eligible - regardless of where they are bred.

That is why horses like Charles Road and Who Shot Thebarman are ineligible.

I'm waiting for the year that will inevitably come where there are no Aussie runners. We went close in 2016

Year 1st Actual Finish 2nd Actual Finish 3rd Actual Finish Actual Winner Notes
2017 Cismontane 13 Amelies Star 14 Boom Time 15 Rekindling
2016 Jameka 15 Insufficient Starters
Insufficient Starters
Almandin
2015 Prince Of Penzance 1 Criterion 3 Gust Of Wind 6 Prince Of Penzance
2014 Signoff 4 Precedence 6 Fawkner 10 Protectionist
2013 Fawkner 6 Ethiopia 7 Super Cool 9 Fiorente
2012 Precedence 9 Niwot 15 Lights Of Heaven 16 Green Moon
2011 Niwot 8 Precedence 11 The Verminator 13 Dunaden
2010 Maluckyday 2 So You Think 3 Zipping 4 Americain
2009 Shocking 1 Master O'Reilly 4 Alcopop 6 Shocking
2008 Viewed 1 Master O'Reilly 4 Moatize 6 Viewed
2007 Efficient 1 Zipping 4 Dolphin Jo 5 Efficient
2006 Maybe Better 3 Zipping 4 Mahtoum 6 Delta Blues
2005 Makybe Diva 1 On A Jeune 2 Leica Falcon 4 Makybe Diva
2004 Makybe Diva 1 Zazzman 3 Elvestroem 4 Makybe Diva
2003 Makybe Diva 1 She's Archie 2 Pentastic 4 Makybe Diva
2002 Mr Prudent 2 Pentastic 5 Rain Gauge 8 Media Puzzle
2001 Rain Gauge 6 Sky Heights 8 Reenact 9 Ethereal
2000 Yippyio 2 Freemason 6 Celestial Show 7 Brew
1999 Rogan Josh 1 Lahar (DH) 3 Zazabelle (DH) 3 Rogan Josh (DH 3rd)
1998 Tie The Knot 6 Skybeau 8 Perpetual Check 9 Jezabeel
1997 Might And Power 1 Markham 3 Linesman 5 Might And Power
1996 Saintly 1 Skybeau 3 Nothin' Leica Dane 5 Saintly
1995 Nothin' Leica Dane 2 Coachwood 5 Beaux Art 6 Doreimus
1994 Paris Lane 2 Alcove 5 Grass Valley 8 Jeune
1993 Frontier Boy 5 Tennessee Jack 6 Our Pompeii 14 Vintage Crop
1992 Subzero 1 Star Of The Realm 7 London Bridge 9 Subzero
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: ianb on 2018-Nov-05, 02:45 PM
 At least our 3 are genuine Australian horses.

If we had the Kiwi Cup it would also consist of 3 horses - one of which (Sir Charles Road) was born in Australia and another Who Shot The Barman who hasn't seen NZ for 4 or 5 years.

Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2018-Nov-06, 02:41 PM
Year 1st Actual Finish 2nd Actual Finish 3rd Actual Finish Actual Winner Notes
2018 Youngstar 6 Runaway 19 Ace High 20 Cross Counter
2017 Cismontane 13 Amelies Star 14 Boom Time 15 Rekindling
2016 Jameka 15 Insufficient Starters
Insufficient Starters
Almandin
2015 Prince Of Penzance 1 Criterion 3 Gust Of Wind 6 Prince Of Penzance
2014 Signoff 4 Precedence 6 Fawkner 10 Protectionist
2013 Fawkner 6 Ethiopia 7 Super Cool 9 Fiorente
2012 Precedence 9 Niwot 15 Lights Of Heaven 16 Green Moon
2011 Niwot 8 Precedence 11 The Verminator 13 Dunaden
2010 Maluckyday 2 So You Think 3 Zipping 4 Americain
2009 Shocking 1 Master O'Reilly 4 Alcopop 6 Shocking
2008 Viewed 1 Master O'Reilly 4 Moatize 6 Viewed
2007 Efficient 1 Zipping 4 Dolphin Jo 5 Efficient
2006 Maybe Better 3 Zipping 4 Mahtoum 6 Delta Blues
2005 Makybe Diva 1 On A Jeune 2 Leica Falcon 4 Makybe Diva
2004 Makybe Diva 1 Zazzman 3 Elvestroem 4 Makybe Diva
2003 Makybe Diva 1 She's Archie 2 Pentastic 4 Makybe Diva
2002 Mr Prudent 2 Pentastic 5 Rain Gauge 8 Media Puzzle
2001 Rain Gauge 6 Sky Heights 8 Reenact 9 Ethereal
2000 Yippyio 2 Freemason 6 Celestial Show 7 Brew
1999 Rogan Josh 1 Lahar (DH) 3 Zazabelle (DH) 3 Rogan Josh (DH 3rd)
1998 Tie The Knot 6 Skybeau 8 Perpetual Check 9 Jezabeel
1997 Might And Power 1 Markham 3 Linesman 5 Might And Power
1996 Saintly 1 Skybeau 3 Nothin' Leica Dane 5 Saintly
1995 Nothin' Leica Dane 2 Coachwood 5 Beaux Art 6 Doreimus
1994 Paris Lane 2 Alcove 5 Grass Valley 8 Jeune
1993 Frontier Boy 5 Tennessee Jack 6 Our Pompeii 14 Vintage Crop
1992 Subzero 1 Star Of The Realm 7 London Bridge 9 Subzero
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2019-Nov-03, 02:38 AM
This year's field includes last year's winner.

No Last 10 Horse Trainer Jockey Barrier Weight
1 12x1x1x434 CROSS COUNTER (GB) Charlie Appleby William Buick 5 57.5kg
2 211x11x1x1 MER DE GLACE (JPN) Hisashi Shimizu Damian Lane 2 56kg
3 7250x14335 MASTER OF REALITY (IRE) Joseph O'Brien Frankie Dettori 1 55.5kg
4 2x0x1322x3 MIRAGE DANCER (GB) Trent Busuttin & Natalie Young Ben Melham 13 55.5kg
5 37x3264413 SOUTHERN FRANCE (IRE) Ciaron Maher & David Eustace Mark Zahra 14 55.5kg
6 3344465881 HUNTING HORN (IRE) Aidan O'Brien Seamie Heffernan 11 55kg
7 220x344216 LATROBE (IRE) Joseph O'Brien James McDonald 22 55kg
8 4x1x723516 MUSTAJEER (GB) Kris Lees Damien Oliver 6 55kg
9 251557x790 ROSTROPOVICH (IRE) David & B Hayes & T Dabernig Dwayne Dunn 12 55kg
10 423x2411x7 TWILIGHT PAYMENT (IRE) Joseph O'Brien Hugh Bowman 19 55kg
11 x1x34x5125 FINCHE (GB) Chris Waller Kerrin McEvoy 4 54kg
12 8x49x58321 PRINCE OF ARRAN (GB) Charlie Fellowes Michael Walker 8 54kg
13 1x6x237x4x RAYMOND TUSK (IRE) Richard Hannon Jamie Spencer 3 54kg
14 x196112x31 DOWNDRAFT (IRE) Joseph O'Brien John Allen 15 53.5kg
15 2x53220224 MAGIC WAND (IRE) Aidan O'Brien Ryan Moore 24 53.5kg
16 2x30x80709 NEUFBOSC (FR) David & B Hayes & T Dabernig Luke Nolen 23 53.5kg
17 00x048x070 SOUND (GER) Michael Moroney James Winks 10 53.5kg
18 1514132x41 SURPRISE BABY (NZ) Paul Preusker Jordan Childs 20 53.5kg
19 531x212224 CONSTANTINOPLE (IRE) David & B Hayes & T Dabernig Joao Moreira 7 52.5kg
20 322x17135 IL PARADISO (USA) Aidan O'Brien Wayne Lordan 17 52.5kg
21 x11111x467 STEEL PRINCE (IRE) Anthony Freedman Brett Prebble 16 52.5kg
22 0141x59195 THE CHOSEN ONE (NZ) Murray Baker & Andrew Forsman Tim Clark 18 52kg
23 1x36621x42 VOW AND DECLARE Danny O'Brien Craig Williams 21 52kg
24 x059x87873 YOUNGSTAR Chris Waller Tommy Berry 9 52kg
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: timw on 2020-Apr-13, 03:52 PM
The Greatest Aussie Melbourne Cup

I recently saw on another website an attempt to effectiveredo what was done by racing.com et al in 2010 (see eg https://www.punters.com.au/news/Full-field-for-fictional-Melbourne-Cup_13046/ for 'Fictional field for the greatest-ever Melbourne Cup - The Greatest Cup Never Run'.

In my case I imagine a race run at set weights for aussie trained horses so Makybe Diva is in the mix.

After the 18 horse field I have included a list of notable omissions and below that a list of horses with superior 2400m for that might be in the mix in a set weight race over 2400m (it follows some of the 3200m horses might have to get the flick if the field were limited to 18 over 2400m.). 


The 18 horse field:

Set Weight Melbourne Cup over 3200m for 4YO&Up    
   
Qualifiation criteria   
   
Horses and geldings to carry 57kg and mares 55kg (Wakeful and Makybe Diva).  This is the basis on which many new international races are now run.   
Field limited to 18 to reduce luck in running as a factor.     
Must have won a cup race over 2 miles or 3200 metres in Australia or New Zealand.  (Capital city cups in Australia and Auckland, Wellington or New Zealand cups if run over 3200m or further. Only Beau Vite and Kindergarten (both Auckland Cup winners) made the field).      
Must have been trained in Australia or New Zealand (note cannot find an ANZ trained horse that competed overseas that won won over an equivalent distance overseas).   
3YO only cup winners omitted as assumed not able to compete against a crack field of older horses carrying set weights.   
Must be a proven WFA winner and have won at WFA over 2000m or further.  In earlier times WFA includes races at WFA with penalties and allowances.  In essence this means horses without a superior win to start record will not qualify.     
The three horses with a win percentage below 50% are Rising Fast (24 wins) 35.3%, Rain Lover (17 wins) 37%, Makybe Diva (15 wins) 41.7%. Dalray had the least number of wins (14) for a win percentage of 51.9%.   
3YO Derby (@2400m.) or St Leger wins (@2800m.) not considered equal to open age WFA wins.   
4YO&Up horses that won a 3200m. cup eliminated in order of lower weight carried to a win.  Highest weighted horse eliminated was Might and Power with 56kg.   
   
The field   
   
Horse                            Cup wins and weights carried (2nds if notable)
   
THE BARB (AUS) 1863   Sydney Cup 56kg, 67kg, Melb. Cup 44kg
CARBINE (NZ) 1885      Melb. Cup 66kg, Sydney Cup 57kg, 61kg
WAKEFUL (AUS) 1896   Sydney Cup 60kg, 2nd Melb Cup 0.75L 63.5kg winner 42kg
POITREL (AUS) 1914   Melb. Cup 63.5kg
EURYTHMIC (AUS) 1916   Sydney Cup 61kg, Perth Cup DH 1st 48.5kg (3YO)
WINDBAG (AUS) 1921   Melb. Cup 58kg
PHAR LAP (NZ) 1926   Melb. Cup 62.5kg
PETER PAN (AUS) 1929   Melb. Cup 47kg (3YO), 62kg
BEAU VITE (NZ) 1936   Auckland Cup 60kg
KINDERGARTEN (NZ) 1937  Auckland Cup 64.5kg
COMIC COURT (AUS) 1945  Melb. Cup 59.5kg
DELTA (AUS) 1946           Melb. Cup 59.5kg
DALRAY (NZ) 1948           Melb. Cup 61kg
RISING FAST (NZ) 1949   Melb. Cup 59.5kg (2nd 63.5kg 0.75L)
TULLOCH (NZ) 1954   Brisbane Cup 62.5kg
GALILEE (NZ) 1962           Sydney Cup 60kg, Melb. Cup 56.5kg
RAIN LOVER (AUS) 1964      Melb. Cup 52kg, 60kg, Adelaide Cup 46kg (3YO)
MAKYBE DIVA (GB) 1999    Melb Cup 51kg 55.5kg, 58kg, Sydney Cup 55.5kg

Notable omissions

TIM WHIFFLER (AUS) 1862
CHESTER (AUS) 1874
ABERCORN (AUS) 1884
GRAND FLANEUR (AUS) 1877
POSEIDON (AUS) 1903
TRAFALGAR (AUS) 1905
HALL MARK (AUS) 1930
SUPER IMPOSE (NZ) 1984
BEAU ZAM (NZ) 1984
LET'S ELOPE (NZ) 1987
SAINTLY (NZ) 1992
TIE THE KNOT (AUS) 1994

Possible inclusions for a 2400m set weight Melbourne Cup.
SAILOR'S GUIDE (AUS) 1952
TOBIN BRONZE (AUS) 1962
DARYL'S JOY (NZ) 1966
GUNSYND (AUS) 1967
LEILANI (NZ) 1970
BALMERINO (NZ) 1972
KINGSTON TOWN (AUS) 1976
STRAWBERRY ROAD (AUS) 1979
BONECRUSHER (NZ) 1982
HORLICKS (NZ) 1983
BETTER LOOSEN UP (AUS) 1985
OCTAGONAL (NZ) 1992
MIGHT AND POWER (NZ) 1993
NORTHERLY (AUS) 1996



Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: wily ole dog on 2020-Apr-13, 05:22 PM
If Kingston Town couldn't make the top 30 I assume he would get the minimum weight and duly shit in  :king:  :no1:
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: pwa54 on 2020-Apr-13, 06:49 PM
Certainly a field of champions Tim.

Redcraze (Brisbane Cup 59kg) might challenge a couple. Super and Beau Zam didn't win a 3200m race but I guess they were intended for the 2400.

The other 3yos to add to the notable omissions might be Newhaven (1893) and Artilleryman (1916). As good as he was, Trafalgar's only 2 mile cup win was the Sydney Cup with 49.5kg. He might be the pretender in that group! Malua won his Cup with 61kg.

I wouldn't mind dropping to 56kg to include Might and Power! But, as with all such simulations, it's an absorbing exercise for anyone interested in racing history.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: timw on 2020-Apr-13, 07:12 PM
WOD

I was on Kingston Town when he ran second in the 1982 cup by a neck with 59kg and had no complaints with Johnston's ride - if he had 58kg victory may have been his noting he was 6/1 so what odds would he have been with 58kg. In 1981 he ran 20th of 22 with 60.5kg at 13/2.  While i have no doubt he would win a set weight cup in his era with 57kg on his back I had to make the cut somewhere to get the field down to 18.  The racing.com fictional Melbourne Cup never had him in the field either for the obvious reason he never won it. I still rate him in the top 10 ever to have raced and I had to leave quite a few of my favourites out as you do in a 'simulation' with set criteria.  PS if anyone finds any errors in my 'maths' let me know.   
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: wily ole dog on 2020-Apr-13, 09:42 PM
Fully understand Tim, just defending my boy :no1:
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: wily ole dog on 2020-Apr-13, 09:44 PM
It’s so hard with all of those old timers since we never saw them.
Including the internationals what sort of field could be conjured up since, say, 1980 or 90 to which we’ve seen them all
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Apr-13, 09:49 PM
I would make a case for Reckless in a 3200m Cup - or at the very least a notable omission.

He won the Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide Cups when they were Principal 3200m races, and ran 2nd in the Melbourne Cup and 3rd in the Perth Cup - both 3200m at the time.

All of these races were scheduled as Group 1's when the system was adopted.

I believe this achievement has never been matched.

And if we are including New Zealanders, I thought Apollo Eleven might be a candidate as well. His achievements were mainly in NZ and Sydney, but Pollard describes Apollo Eleven as "one of the best New Zealand has ever produced" and that his "performance in winning the 1973 Sydney Cup remains one of the most outstanding runs ever seen in Australia".
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Apr-13, 10:01 PM
Canberra Times article following the win of Apollo Eleven in the Sydney Cup

(https://i.postimg.cc/WqqBFGqj/Apollo-Eleven.png) (https://postimg.cc/WqqBFGqj)

He did go on to meet Gunsynd the following Saturday in the QE2, and beat the great grey into 2nd place capping a "Surround like" autumn in Sydney 1973.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Apr-13, 10:16 PM
And I didn't post this table post race. These are the results when overseas horses are excluded.

Year 1st Actual Finish 2nd Actual Finish 3rd Actual Finish Actual Winner Notes
2019 Vow And Declare 1 Surprise Baby 5 Youngstar 20 Vow And Declare
2018 Youngstar 6 Runaway 19 Ace High 20 Cross Counter
2017 Cismontane 13 Amelies Star 14 Boom Time 15 Rekindling
2016 Jameka 15 Insufficient Starters
Insufficient Starters
Almandin
2015 Prince Of Penzance 1 Criterion 3 Gust Of Wind 6 Prince Of Penzance
2014 Signoff 4 Precedence 6 Fawkner 10 Protectionist
2013 Fawkner 6 Ethiopia 7 Super Cool 9 Fiorente
2012 Precedence 9 Niwot 15 Lights Of Heaven 16 Green Moon
2011 Niwot 8 Precedence 11 The Verminator 13 Dunaden
2010 Maluckyday 2 So You Think 3 Zipping 4 Americain
2009 Shocking 1 Master O'Reilly 4 Alcopop 6 Shocking
2008 Viewed 1 Master O'Reilly 4 Moatize 6 Viewed
2007 Efficient 1 Zipping 4 Dolphin Jo 5 Efficient
2006 Maybe Better 3 Zipping 4 Mahtoum 6 Delta Blues
2005 Makybe Diva 1 On A Jeune 2 Leica Falcon 4 Makybe Diva
2004 Makybe Diva 1 Zazzman 3 Elvestroem 4 Makybe Diva
2003 Makybe Diva 1 She's Archie 2 Pentastic 4 Makybe Diva
2002 Mr Prudent 2 Pentastic 5 Rain Gauge 8 Media Puzzle
2001 Rain Gauge 6 Sky Heights 8 Reenact 9 Ethereal
2000 Yippyio 2 Freemason 6 Celestial Show 7 Brew
1999 Rogan Josh 1 Lahar (DH) 3 Zazabelle (DH) 3 Rogan Josh (DH 3rd)
1998 Tie The Knot 6 Skybeau 8 Perpetual Check 9 Jezabeel
1997 Might And Power 1 Markham 3 Linesman 5 Might And Power
1996 Saintly 1 Skybeau 3 Nothin' Leica Dane 5 Saintly
1995 Nothin' Leica Dane 2 Coachwood 5 Beaux Art 6 Doreimus
1994 Paris Lane 2 Alcove 5 Grass Valley 8 Jeune
1993 Frontier Boy 5 Tennessee Jack 6 Our Pompeii 14 Vintage Crop
1992 Subzero 1 Star Of The Realm 7 London Bridge 9 Subzero
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Antitab# on 2020-Apr-14, 03:22 AM
2017 would have been particularly disappointing, isnt Makybe Diva a European horse.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: JWesleyHarding on 2020-Apr-14, 08:36 AM
This is hypothetical race where the participants are "Australian" horses.

There is a bit of debate about what constitutes an "Aussie" horse.

iiii) It is OK if the horse is bred overseas as long as it has done all (or nearly all) of it's racing here.
[

Therefore MD is Aussie for these purposes
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: timw on 2020-Apr-14, 02:21 PM
 Apollo Eleven

I looked up Apollo Eleven's record in Peter Pring's "Major Australian Races and Racehorses 1960-1980' and his record isn't that flash.  12 wins from 87 starts.  Only won 2 races in first 3 years of racing.  In 1973 aged 5 he won the Auckland Cup carrying 51.5kg.  He then had 2 unplaced runs before coming to Sydney. In Sydney he won the Tancred then a handicap with 54.5kg, the Chipping Norton with 58kg, the Sydney Cup with 54.5 and the QE Stks with 58.5kg.  Back to NZ it took almost 2 years before he struck form again with a 3rd in the Wellington Cup with 53kg (truly) then next won the Trentham Stakes at WFA before heading to Sydney.  Next start in Sydney he won the Chipping Norton at WFA then 8th in the Sydney Cup with 58.5kg. The Sydney handicapper thought more of him than they did in NZ which may have been a reflection of the low standard of Sydney racing back then. 5 of his 8 best wins were in Sydney (chief wins in NZ were Bay of Plenty Gold Cup 51kg,  Auckland Cup 51.5kg and Trentham Stakes WFA) - go figure.

Cheers
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: pwa54 on 2020-Apr-14, 03:00 PM
I mentioned Redcraze and Malua earlier, but Nightmarch, which won his Cup with 58.5, is another with the necessary record. All 3 could challenge Beau Vite.

Apollo Eleven's Sydney Cup win was a great one and Battle Heights the next year with 58.5 was also impressive. He won the Cox Plate in the same year when Taras Bulba was favourite. He and Reckless should be in a best-of field of the last 50 years.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: nemisis on 2020-Apr-14, 03:41 PM
I was living in Auckland in 73  and Apollo Eleven had a reputation in racing as a "Gay Deceiver".
It was the first time I had come across the term.

Here is a piece re Apollo Eleven by Dave Bradford.
'After winning as a 2 yr old, his form slumped at 3 and his only winin 14 starts was in a 6 furlong hack event in Tauranga.
His 4 yr season amounted to 18 starts without a win and because lack lustre racing performances were not in keeping with good training efforts he earned the reputation of being a 'Gay Deceiver.
But when an offending splint was removed from a leg and what had obviously been a source of pain banished, Apollo Eleven in 8 months of the 1972-73 season proved himself to be the bravest of the brave in 2 lands"

That's how I remember him......Very short devastating patch of form.

Never had the warrior status of Battle Heights or Game about him.

Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: pwa54 on 2020-Apr-15, 11:46 AM
Wily, here's an attempt at an Australian field 1980-2020

Hypothetical 3200 metre race with the best Australian stayers 1980-2020.
Must have won over 3200 metres or placed and run at least twice at the distance.
For New Zealanders must have run successfully in Australia.
For internationally bred, must have done a significant amount of their racing in Australia

1.   Makybe Diva
2.   Kingston Town
3.   Might and Power
4.   Doriemus
5.   Saintly
6.   Let’s Elope
7.   Super Impose
8.   At Talaq
9.   Efficient
10.   Kiwi
11.   Castletown
12.   Tie the Knot
13.   Fiorente
14.   Ethereal
15.   Jezabeel
16.   Viewed
17.   Who Shot Thebarman
18.   Gurner’s Lane
19.   Vow and Declare
20.   Empire Rose
21.   Subzero
22.   Trissaro
23.   Niwot
24.   Count Chivas
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Apr-15, 02:19 PM
I was living in Auckland in 73  and Apollo Eleven had a reputation in racing as a "Gay Deceiver".
It was the first time I had come across the term.

Here is a piece re Apollo Eleven by Dave Bradford.
'After winning as a 2 yr old, his form slumped at 3 and his only winin 14 starts was in a 6 furlong hack event in Tauranga.
His 4 yr season amounted to 18 starts without a win and because lack lustre racing performances were not in keeping with good training efforts he earned the reputation of being a 'Gay Deceiver.
But when an offending splint was removed from a leg and what had obviously been a source of pain banished, Apollo Eleven in 8 months of the 1972-73 season proved himself to be the bravest of the brave in 2 lands"

That's how I remember him......Very short devastating patch of form.

Never had the warrior status of Battle Heights or Game about him.

Well I'll let you oldies tell the tale.

I was still in Primary School at the beginning of that season and wasn't following horse racing.

I remember Battle Heights. Won the Metrop aged 10. Seemed to be part of the furniture.

Game????
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: timw on 2020-Apr-15, 05:44 PM
PP

According to Pring he won the Craven Plate and the Metrop 56.5kg at 9  (so spring 1976) and finished 13th the following year (1977 at 10) after running 3rd in the Craven plate. 

cheers
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: nemisis on 2020-Apr-15, 06:29 PM
Well I'll let you oldies tell the tale.

I was still in Primary School at the beginning of that season and wasn't following horse racing.

I remember Battle Heights. Won the Metrop aged 10. Seemed to be part of the furniture.

Game????
Game was the  NZ WFA star when I first develop an interest.
A handsome black gelded son of Faux Tirage, he was a front runner with the courage you could only love and admire......Vo Rogue type without the big leads.
Game by name and game by nature was the racecaller's cry and while it sounds pretty corny now, it was absolutely true.
He was a late bloomer so his record mightn't show how good he was.

I was working with an Aussie at the time who would regularly talk about 'dashing Roy Higgins'.
Roy came over to ride him in an invitation race.....Lester Piggott won the race on  the fav Sailing Home.......Piggott hit the mare twice......Game was 2nd but Higgins really laid into him with the stick.....a la Light Fingers......couldn't count the blows.....what a contrast! ........nothing that dashing were my thoughts about Roy Higgins.
He did acknowledge Game's courage who was racing in bandages by them and a little past his best.

Just on Apollo Eleven ......his win in The Auckland Cup was his 4th win in around 40 starts so he wasn't a lot of peoples favourite.......if my memory is right he wasn't being tried as a stayer......more around the mile.
He won the equivalent of a mid level benchmark the week before The Auckland Cup with a huge finish and it all really took off  from there.
He was about the 4th fav in the Auckland Cup.

Who would have thought he was going to come here and rain on Gunsynd's parade?
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: wily ole dog on 2020-Apr-16, 08:45 AM
Wily, here's an attempt at an Australian field 1980-2020

Hypothetical 3200 metre race with the best Australian stayers 1980-2020.
Must have won over 3200 metres or placed and run at least twice at the distance.
For New Zealanders must have run successfully in Australia.
For internationally bred, must have done a significant amount of their racing in Australia

1.   Makybe Diva
2.   Kingston Town
3.   Might and Power
4.   Doriemus
5.   Saintly
6.   Let’s Elope
7.   Super Impose
8.   At Talaq
9.   Efficient
10.   Kiwi
11.   Castletown
12.   Tie the Knot
13.   Fiorente
14.   Ethereal
15.   Jezabeel
16.   Viewed
17.   Who Shot Thebarman
18.   Gurner’s Lane
19.   Vow and Declare
20.   Empire Rose
21.   Subzero
22.   Trissaro
23.   Niwot
24.   Count Chivas

Great effort pwa, certainly a cracking good field
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: wily ole dog on 2020-Apr-16, 08:47 AM
We might actually get not imports this year so it could be an “Aussie “ MC
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: pwa54 on 2020-Apr-16, 10:30 AM
I reckon you're right, Wily. A return to the old days.

It might encourage a few owners and trainers to target the Cup with the prospect of easier pickings.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Gintara on 2020-Apr-16, 01:33 PM
Great effort pwa, certainly a cracking good field

But the real question is how Peter Mair would tell us that 18 is too big a field and which 'no hoper' he would leave out   :lol:

Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Authorized on 2020-Oct-25, 01:43 PM
Looks a pretty good field this year.

Vow And Delare
Verry Elleegant
Surprise Baby
Russian Camelot
Warning
The Chosen One
Etah James
Miami Bound
Oceanex
Persan

Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Oct-25, 02:27 PM
Thanks for bumping this up Auth.

I will prepare and publish he field next Sunday.

Looks like COVID combined with a few good local hopes have turned the tide against the internationals this year.
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: wily ole dog on 2020-Oct-25, 04:23 PM
Who’s this Authorized bloke😱
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Gintara on 2020-Oct-25, 05:34 PM
Who’s this Authorized bloke😱

I do know he loves a tweet.   :biggrin:
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Nov-02, 01:14 AM
No Last 10 Horse Trainer Jockey Barrier Weight Hcp Rating
1 0330x25x12 ANTHONY VAN DYCK (IRE) Aidan O'Brien Hugh Bowman 3 58.5 122
2 54533x4626 AVILIUS (GB) James Cummings John Allen 10 57 116
3 21x395x900 VOW AND DECLARE Danny O'Brien Jamie Mott 4 57 115
4 3354x6221x MASTER OF REALITY (IRE) Joseph O'Brien Ben Melham 11 56 113
5 44x2x222x1 SIR DRAGONET (IRE) Ciaron Maher & David Eustace Glen Boss 14 55.5 121
6 x70x7x2113 TWILIGHT PAYMENT (IRE) Joseph O'Brien Jye McNeil 12 55.5 115
7 42212x1411 VERRY ELLEEGANT (NZ) Chris Waller Mark Zahra 15 55.5 116
8 x1225x0098 MUSTAJEER (GB) Kris Lees Michael Rodd 2 55 114
9 2104xPx72x STRATUM ALBION (GB) Willie Mullins Jordan Childs 9 55 114
10 14579x1140 DASHING WILLOUGHBY (GB) Andrew Balding Michael Walker 19 54.5 112
11 x51257x335 FINCHE (GB) Chris Waller James McDonald 6 54.5 112
12 20x3x36x34 PRINCE OF ARRAN (GB) Charlie Fellowes Jamie Kah 1 54.5 113
13 132x415x29 SURPRISE BABY (NZ) Paul Preusker Craig Williams 7 54.5 112
14 9x211x2x03 KING OF LEOGRANCE (FR) Danny O'Brien Damian Lane 18 53.5 109
15 2x411x2123 RUSSIAN CAMELOT (IRE) Danny O'Brien Damien Oliver 16 53.5 118
16 x4679x0331 STEEL PRINCE (IRE) Anthony & Sam Freedman William Pike 21 53.5 111
17 38572x1873 THE CHOSEN ONE (NZ) Murray Baker & Andrew Forsman Daniel Stackhouse 5 53.5 111
18 853x5x2241 ASHRUN (FR) Andreas Wohler Declan Bates 24 53 110
19 755633x760 WARNING Anthony & Sam Freedman Luke Currie 8 53 115
20 6416341x04 ETAH JAMES (NZ) Ciaron Maher & David Eustace Billy Egan 22 52.5 106
21 3x12x1 TIGER MOTH (IRE) Aidan O'Brien Kerrin McEvoy 23 52.5 114
22 07511x0003 OCEANEX (NZ) Mick Price & Michael Kent (Jnr) Dean Yendall 17 51.5 108
23 1x84x40661 MIAMI BOUND (NZ) Danny O'Brien Daniel Moor 13 51 111
24 3121112121 PERSAN Ciaron Maher & David Eustace Michael Dee 20 51 107

Had to make a call on  a couple of horses involved.

Verry Elleegant had her first 3 starts in NZ and has raced in Australia ever since.

Steel Prince had his first 4 starts in Europe.

Have left them in as "Aussies".
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: firezuki on 2020-Nov-02, 06:51 AM
Despite the title of the thread, I can't go past yet another Northern 3 year old.


I backed Surprise Baby last year but the slow tempo killed his chances.


He seems to be one of those horses that's always finishing on but never salutes.


I'm going to give him a miss this year. 


Prince of Aaran will be very hard to beat - the new Red Cadeaux. 


I give King of Leogrance a chance.  He's my roughie.


AVD can certainly win but the weight and a hard track will make it tough for him.


I don't think Verry Eleegant will get the trip but if she does she'll be hard to beat. 


Same for Russian Camelot. 


Steel Prince will give some cheek and will get the journey. 


Persan may give some also.


But Tiger Moth looks the goods.  His last start win was a beauty and he showed that acceleration I'm looking for. 


Warning my saver and biggest threat.


21 to beat 19 12 and 14. 


Haven't done anywhere near the work I usually do so you can probably dismiss all of the above. 
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Wenona on 2020-Nov-02, 10:46 PM

I was still in Primary School at the beginning of that season and wasn't following horse racing.


Geez, you where a late starter, I was handling the school SP by first year high school.   :biggrin:
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Nov-02, 11:05 PM
Geez, you where a late starter, I was handling the school SP by first year high school.   :biggrin:

One of my mates was the High School bookie.

One year a teacher confiscated all his books so he declared Force Majeure and just kept all the money   :lol:
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: firezuki on 2020-Nov-03, 11:17 AM
Was it Joe Biden?   lol




My firt bet on the Cup was 1968 when I backed Rain Lover. 


Just 'cause I liked the name. 
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: firezuki on 2020-Nov-03, 02:17 PM
Just got beaten but got the Tri.    emthup  
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: Gintara on 2020-Nov-03, 02:53 PM
I got the tri, shame I took a first 4  :dry: :shy:

After telling myself the CC was the form I'm still scratching my head how I left out The Chosen One from the numbers completely :shrug:  :wacko:
Title: The "Aussie" Melbourne Cup
Post by: PoisonPen7 on 2020-Nov-03, 03:24 PM
Not a good result for The Aussies.

Persan "wins".

Verry Elleegant has done exceptionally well to come 7th. Very negative ride. Deserved what it got. I know he is in a purple patch at the moment but that jockey has never worked for me. Waller has better jockeys to choose from and I'm sure he is thinking that today.

Year 1st Actual Finish 2nd Actual Finish 3rd Actual Finish Actual Winner
2020 Persan 5 Verry Elleegant 7 Russian Camelot 8 Twilight Payment
2019 Vow And Declare 1 Surprise Baby 5 Youngstar 20 Vow And Declare
2018 Youngstar 6 Runaway 19 Ace High 20 Cross Counter
2017 Cismontane 13 Amelies Star 14 Boom Time 15 Rekindling
2016 Jameka 15 Insufficient Starters
Insufficient Starters
Almandin
2015 Prince Of Penzance 1 Criterion 3 Gust Of Wind 6 Prince Of Penzance
2014 Signoff 4 Precedence 6 Fawkner 10 Protectionist
2013 Fawkner 6 Ethiopia 7 Super Cool 9 Fiorente
2012 Precedence 9 Niwot 15 Lights Of Heaven 16 Green Moon
2011 Niwot 8 Precedence 11 The Verminator 13 Dunaden
2010 Maluckyday 2 So You Think 3 Zipping 4 Americain
2009 Shocking 1 Master O'Reilly 4 Alcopop 6 Shocking
2008 Viewed 1 Master O'Reilly 4 Moatize 6 Viewed
2007 Efficient 1 Zipping 4 Dolphin Jo 5 Efficient
2006 Maybe Better 3 Zipping 4 Mahtoum 6 Delta Blues
2005 Makybe Diva 1 On A Jeune 2 Leica Falcon 4 Makybe Diva
2004 Makybe Diva 1 Zazzman 3 Elvestroem 4 Makybe Diva
2003 Makybe Diva 1 She's Archie 2 Pentastic 4 Makybe Diva
2002 Mr Prudent 2 Pentastic 5 Rain Gauge 8 Media Puzzle
2001 Rain Gauge 6 Sky Heights 8 Reenact 9 Ethereal
2000 Yippyio 2 Freemason 6 Celestial Show 7 Brew
1999 Rogan Josh 1 Lahar (DH) 3 Zazabelle (DH) 3 Rogan Josh
1998 Tie The Knot 6 Skybeau 8 Perpetual Check 9 Jezabeel
1997 Might And Power 1 Markham 3 Linesman 5 Might And Power
1996 Saintly 1 Skybeau 3 Nothin' Leica Dane 5 Saintly
1995 Nothin' Leica Dane 2 Coachwood 5 Beaux Art 6 Doreimus
1994 Paris Lane 2 Alcove 5 Grass Valley 8 Jeune
1993 Frontier Boy 5 Tennessee Jack 6 Our Pompeii 14 Vintage Crop
1992 Subzero 1 Star Of The Realm 7 London Bridge 9 Subzero