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Online jfc

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« 2019-Oct-21, 06:22 PM Reply #350 »
I'd be very surprised if I claimed The Everest will never work, as I intentionally avoid making those types of claims.

The turnover is presumably because of the massive publicity from media stitched up by V'landys.

And I've demonstrated at least part of the prize money is fake, making the publicity a fake.

Also Randwick is a shithole. It's the last place any avid racegoer would want to be on a crowded day.

I'd love to know how many of the rank and file missed out on seeing the race there.

Offline Jeunes

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« 2019-Oct-21, 06:33 PM Reply #351 »
PP, some very interesting numbers with the wagers on the Sydney races. Everest is good for racing especially in Sydney. Best field this year in any race as I said in another topic.

Are there any numbers on crowd figures etc too for the races? Everest should be double on the other racing Sydney crowds I think.

By the way does your tab numbers differentiate between on course amounts and off course etc. The only reason I ask is both Sydney and Melbourne figures for the major races would be affected by the attendance. If an extra 20000 attended the meeting, pretty good chance an extra couple of hundred thousand would be wagered with the TAB. CC crowd would do the same but the Doncaster meeting would have a lower crowd in Sydney as well as Melbourne Autumn carnivals are over so crowd numbers will be less than 10k max especially with AFL season underway.

Also the extra the Everest does is expose more sponsorship dollars and crowds so it is not just about turnover.

I as a racing fan enjoyed the CC and Everest on the weekend. I just wish the hype will return to the Melbourne spring carnival. It is about 2 weeks away from the Big one but just no buildup.

Offline Atreus

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« 2019-Oct-21, 06:55 PM Reply #352 »
The Everest is great if you are an advertising executive

The Everest was a good race but it was not $14 million dollars good.  And how do we even know if these slots are fully paid up???  We know the Pegasus slots were not being fully paid up in the USA for the 2nd running of that event

The quality of the field was no better than many G1 sprints over the years when the prizemoney was only 500K or a million

How many of the 40000 crowd were there to see the concert not the race?


Offline Peter Mair

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« 2019-Oct-21, 07:57 PM Reply #353 »


The Everest is a G1 race -- no question

     ......  ....  policy issues here are about 'dare to be great' tactics coupled with 'tricks' to inflate advertised prize-money to claim 'world best' status.

.......... childish behaviour!......... mine is bigger than yours!............. do not send us a pic.

Artificially 'boosting' on-course attendance is another 'trick' intended to draw lemmings (and country folk).

The Phlegmington' carnival has little to do with the racing these days -- do not cough-up.

We know what happened when another Don King 'donkey' wrecked the boxing business.

That donkey has clones.

Australian racing needs to accept that it is overblown and  'on the skids'  -- as it is in every other country in our relevant reference group.

Preserving a credible industry is about honoring the history with quality racing of local horses  -- not 'destroying' the Cups with global fawning.


Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Oct-21, 09:40 PM Reply #354 »

Are there any numbers on crowd figures etc too for the races? Everest should be double on the other racing Sydney crowds I think.


40k at Randwick. 28k at Caulfield. Both down a thousand or so on the corresponding meets last year.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Oct-21, 09:41 PM Reply #355 »
The Everest is great if you are an advertising executive

The Everest was a good race but it was not $14 million dollars good.  And how do we even know if these slots are fully paid up???  We know the Pegasus slots were not being fully paid up in the USA for the 2nd running of that event

The quality of the field was no better than many G1 sprints over the years when the prizemoney was only 500K or a million

How many of the 40000 crowd were there to see the concert not the race?

Your opinion and you are entitled to it Atreus.

But the evidence of betting figures suggest otherwise.......my opinion  :)

Offline Jeunes

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« 2019-Oct-22, 06:44 AM Reply #356 »
PP, is there a break up of on course and off course figures as that will be a major guide for the future and bringing crowds in?

I remember in the old days, the Tab used to have CC figures in the millions but the corporates and Tab fixed odds have polluted this as they are not included in the raw figures.

Online jfc

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« 2019-Oct-22, 07:01 AM Reply #357 »
From my extensive hair pulling research into the matter Tabcorp (+PVL) goes to massive lengths to misreport such figures.

It hides On Course in Other.

Also my bet is most serious On Course Turnover is through phone apps or Commission Agents, so it's a futile exercise trying to draw illuminating conclusions.

Offline Peter Mair

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« 2019-Oct-22, 11:24 AM Reply #358 »


On-course attendances --the facts as reported are not a fair reflection of the truth


40k at Randwick. 28k at Caulfield. Both down a thousand or so on the corresponding meets last year.

The nonsense inherent in the apparent 'superiority' of Everest-day is immediately apparent.

There is no way the Caulfield Cup attendance would fall-short of any Randwick meeting unless the outcome was contrived.

The mechanics of pulling a crowd in Sydney are a mix of distributing thousands of 'free tickets' and, presumably, loyal country race participants coming down to the big-smoke following a local runner in the k-ko curtain raiser.

..... ............until audited  'free ticket' numbers are disclosed it is just another illustration of the 'dependent' racing media  taking dictation but not questioning.

Offline Jeunes

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« 2019-Oct-23, 06:03 PM Reply #359 »
Not sure who the bright spark in NRL who thought having their own tv production crew and on selling to commercial or pay tv was a good idea. TVN is a prime example.

NRL get over a billion dollars in the tv deals and if they try to add more with the production costs, the consumer will pay more if the pay tv charges more.

Cricket has not been great for Foxtel and Channel 7 so this year without the ashes will be quite interesting as many donít want to pay for cricket.

Vlandys will have his work cut trying to get a better deal with pay tv especially if there is no expansion and higher costs.

Offline Arsenal

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« 2019-Oct-23, 06:26 PM Reply #360 »
Interesting story on Mr V'Landys on www.letsgohorseracing reproduced with approval from Fairfax Media story by Jane Cadzow in Good Weekend ..well worth a read friends and enemies alike....this is a taste

"Even his admirers, and there are a lot of them, shiver slightly when they think about the consequences of falling out with V'landys. "I don't think I'd ever want to be on his wrong side," says Josh Blanksby, chief executive of the Melbourne Racing Club. V'landys insists his fearsome reputation is unwarranted. He told Cadzow for her story that people who meet him are pleasantly surprised, often confiding to him that he isn't as bad as they expected. "It happens all the time," he says. "I'm not this monster they all think I am. I'm quite the opposite."

https://www.letsgohorseracing.com.au/


Giddy Up :beer:


Offline Peter Mair

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« 2019-Oct-23, 07:33 PM Reply #361 »

Pete the fixer

....... it helps if the government is happy to 'do as you ask',  lets you take the credit -- trained media do not ask (or think).

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Oct-24, 06:09 AM Reply #362 »
PP, is there a break up of on course and off course figures as that will be a major guide for the future and bringing crowds in?

I remember in the old days, the Tab used to have CC figures in the millions but the corporates and Tab fixed odds have polluted this as they are not included in the raw figures.

My stats were very superficial mate and I don't have access to detailed stats.

Unless someone is betting in "Venue mode" on their TAB app, then there is going to be a lot of on-course TAB money not reported.

Strange as it may seem, a lot of the younger people attending the races probably wouldn't even know how to put a bet on in the traditional way where you line up and tell the operator your bets - they have no need to bet that way.

And all on-course wagering conducted with corporates will be via an app.

So I don't think "off course vs. on course" can be properly assessed these days.

Offline Jeunes

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« 2019-Oct-24, 06:36 AM Reply #363 »
Actually PP, not being sexist but many of the fairer sex bet with the Tab. The main reason being many of them donít have any accounts with the corporates.

The young males usually bet on their apps but some of them end up betting with the tab on the exotics as they are mostly sports punters.

The only reason I know is we have been with big and different groups and it is very noticeable what they do as they usually ask me how to bet etc. There is also a great reluctance on the part of females to open up a betting account.

That is the reason why I find on course and off fascinating these days especially on big days but can never find figures.


Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Oct-24, 09:17 AM Reply #364 »
Actually PP, not being sexist but many of the fairer sex bet with the Tab. The main reason being many of them donít have any accounts with the corporates.

The young males usually bet on their apps but some of them end up betting with the tab on the exotics as they are mostly sports punters.

The only reason I know is we have been with big and different groups and it is very noticeable what they do as they usually ask me how to bet etc. There is also a great reluctance on the part of females to open up a betting account.

That is the reason why I find on course and off fascinating these days especially on big days but can never find figures.

My 24yo son and his GF bet on their phones and they were out there at the Everest.

My oldest daughter has an account but the youngest one doesn't.

But I know what you mean.

Offline Jeunes

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« 2019-Oct-25, 04:55 PM Reply #365 »
My 24yo son and his GF bet on their phones and they were out there at the Everest.

My oldest daughter has an account but the youngest one doesn't.

But I know what you mean.

Not being too personal but does your son and his GF bet on horses regularly or sports?

I find most of the youngsters are geared towards the sports especially the footy and even more in the last few years, the NBA.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Oct-25, 09:39 PM Reply #366 »
Not being too personal but does your son and his GF bet on horses regularly or sports?

I find most of the youngsters are geared towards the sports especially the footy and even more in the last few years, the NBA.

Son (oldest child) bets on horses at carnival times when he goes to the races with his mates. GF never bets unless she is at the races with him.
Oldest daughter has a Ladbrokes account and bets on "sports" (mainly Cronulla Sharks and The Block FFS)
Youngest daughter never bets.

Offline Jeunes

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« 2019-Oct-25, 11:29 PM Reply #367 »
Interesting story floating around Vlandys and him taking over from Beattie.

Seems there is a bit of amusement from a few club executives on how Vlandys avoided the media in regards to Racing wastage issue.

They are wondering if they will have to face the music if anything bad happens or can do a Vlandys.

The test case will be the De Bellin case which is supposed to resolved prior to the start of the season. There is a lot riding on it either way except Beattie.


Offline Jeunes

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« 2019-Oct-27, 09:59 AM Reply #368 »
Vlandys takes over from Beattie officially with the next two weeks and has inherited issues that his predecessor could not sort.

Beattie danced around the expansion issue including a committee to investigate etc. Their recommendations are status quo according to media reports which will annoy many in Queensland, Central Coast and Western Australia. Relocation will be the only option for these places which is not palatable for many fans with Titans being the favourites for relocation.

Player behaviour and the stand down policy will be interesting to see after the Debellin case. The question that will keep arising what do they do with the players. Vlandys cannot look after every player and it is ultimately the responsibility of the payers and the clubs. Vlandys unfortunately has to deal with the aftermath as Beattie and Greenberg had too.

The next tv deal is tipped to be lower unless technology improves even further with the streaming and you have Facebook or Google or Apple or another internet giant join the party. Foxtel is losing millions each year and sports deals are part of the problem. Kayo sports is cannibalising Foxtel too. The negotiations will start late this year and whatever happens AFL will be watching too.

Vlandys also has to reign in NRL administration costs amid lower crowds and viewers. Part of the issue is bonuses of almost a $1m has been paid part of this yearís revenue due to some canny contract negotiations previously. Some NRL clubs are unhappy over this as it means they get less of the pie.

The stadium rebuilds will help crowds in the short term but unless Vlandys and co can attract people back to the games long term, it will be playing in half empty stadiums again. They need to lower ticket costs as most people including me see no attraction to goto multiple games. We try to go at least one to two games per year but rather watch the game on tv due to the costs.

Every move of Vlandys will be scrutinised amidst how much time he spends on each of his Racing Nsw and  NRL jobs. But kudos for him in trying and his business relationship might help them both. Promotions involving NRL and Racing NSW together can be a reality however any conflict of interest will be raised by his critics.

Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Oct-27, 12:07 PM Reply #369 »
Interesting story floating around Vlandys and him taking over from Beattie.

Seems there is a bit of amusement from a few club executives on how Vlandys avoided the media in regards to Racing wastage issue.

They are wondering if they will have to face the music if anything bad happens or can do a Vlandys.

The test case will be the De Bellin case which is supposed to resolved prior to the start of the season. There is a lot riding on it either way except Beattie.

How do you interpret that he "avoided the media"?

He was the only racing head that agreed to be interviewed by the ABC.

Given that the very worst happened in Qld what is becoming amazing is how the PVL haters seem to have turned this into a NSW issue. Racing NSW actually rescued some NSW horses from Victoria that were headed for the doggers.

Some people will bag PVL regardless of what he does. He has pissed a few people off by acting in the best interest of NSW industry participants and they will twist anything.

Who are the "they" you are referring to? Some grub NRL journalists?

Offline Jeunes

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« 2019-Oct-27, 01:32 PM Reply #370 »
PP, I think you must be a Vlandys groupie or his PR rep.

Can he do no wrong? I like Vlandys and majority of what he has done to NSW racing is quite good. Read all my posts.
 But I can also be critical too. Judging Vlandys seems to be like politics with most of this forum. It is either for him or not and nothing in the middle. That is Ike the political support in the forum. People cannot take the blinkers off. However when you accuse them of bias or being unreasonable, they will produce one post being critical out of a 100.

I compare this to some of the political media and use our old mate AJ, majority of the time he has been supportive of the conservatives but has critical of a few of their policies till they fold. However he has never supported Labor but the conservatives will say he is not fully one of us but in the left.

In answer to your question regarding Vlandys and the media. Here is what one RL high up said to a friend of mine. Vlandys will not be able to pick and choose who he gives exclusives to like he does now otherwise he will alienate rest of the media. This is why we see NRL scandals being exposed. He also said many in the RL world would not like him to pay vast amounts of money to News Corp as he does from the Racing Industry to promote racing. The amount includes advertising etc too.

Vlandys is smart enough to realise this but some of his supporters are not. He likes critics as it spurs him on especially if it is personal, however he knows popularity amongst the people is what he needs to get changes across. He is strong enough to defend himself


Offline PoisonPen7

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« 2019-Oct-27, 02:59 PM Reply #371 »
PP, I think you must be a Vlandys groupie or his PR rep.

Can he do no wrong? I like Vlandys and majority of what he has done to NSW racing is quite good. Read all my posts.
 But I can also be critical too. Judging Vlandys seems to be like politics with most of this forum. It is either for him or not and nothing in the middle. That is Ike the political support in the forum. People cannot take the blinkers off. However when you accuse them of bias or being unreasonable, they will produce one post being critical out of a 100.

I compare this to some of the political media and use our old mate AJ, majority of the time he has been supportive of the conservatives but has critical of a few of their policies till they fold. However he has never supported Labor but the conservatives will say he is not fully one of us but in the left.

In answer to your question regarding Vlandys and the media. Here is what one RL high up said to a friend of mine. Vlandys will not be able to pick and choose who he gives exclusives to like he does now otherwise he will alienate rest of the media. This is why we see NRL scandals being exposed. He also said many in the RL world would not like him to pay vast amounts of money to News Corp as he does from the Racing Industry to promote racing. The amount includes advertising etc too.

Vlandys is smart enough to realise this but some of his supporters are not. He likes critics as it spurs him on especially if it is personal, however he knows popularity amongst the people is what he needs to get changes across. He is strong enough to defend himself

But in your reply, you didn't address my point about him "avoiding the media".

I think the opposite. He made himself available to the ABC. Where was the head of RQ? RVL?

And as I commented, the interview was heavily edited (if you watch the show, look at the background - it keeps changing) and I think that was done to paint him in a bad light.

It was an investigative piece where the theme was pre-determined.

I have no problem with them going after sadists like the one shown in Caboolture.

But any idiot can set up a hidden camera right at the point of the end of life of a slaughtered animal and horrify people.

It would have been equally disturbing if the hidden camera had have been showing lambs, cows or calves in their final moments.

And showing it two days before the Everest? Come on. We are all worldly wise here. This was a set up.


On V'Landys and his upcoming role in the NRL.

I do not know what to expect. I was surprised he took the gig. He is on a hiding to nothing.

As a follower of NRL and AFL, one of the things that separates the games is the journalists.

In the AFL, journalists (in general) really love the game and it shows in their reporting.

In the NRL we have people like Phil Rothfield, Danny Weidler and Gus Gould.

These guys compete with one another on who can come up with the most negative story. Rothfield claims he is a Cronulla supporter but at times seems to be leading the charge to have them relocated.

V'Landys is in for a tough time if he thinks these guys are motivated by a love of the game. They are not and will see him as an "opportunity" for grubby journalism.

Offline Jeunes

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« 2019-Oct-27, 04:02 PM Reply #372 »
But in your reply, you didn't address my point about him "avoiding the media".

I think the opposite. He made himself available to the ABC. Where was the head of RQ? RVL?

And as I commented, the interview was heavily edited (if you watch the show, look at the background - it keeps changing) and I think that was done to paint him in a bad light.

It was an investigative piece where the theme was pre-determined.

I have no problem with them going after sadists like the one shown in Caboolture.

But any idiot can set up a hidden camera right at the point of the end of life of a slaughtered animal and horrify people.

It would have been equally disturbing if the hidden camera had have been showing lambs, cows or calves in their final moments.

And showing it two days before the Everest? Come on. We are all worldly wise here. This was a set up.


On V'Landys and his upcoming role in the NRL.

I do not know what to expect. I was surprised he took the gig. He is on a hiding to nothing.

As a follower of NRL and AFL, one of the things that separates the games is the journalists.

In the AFL, journalists (in general) really love the game and it shows in their reporting.

In the NRL we have people like Phil Rothfield, Danny Weidler and Gus Gould.

These guys compete with one another on who can come up with the most negative story. Rothfield claims he is a Cronulla supporter but at times seems to be leading the charge to have them relocated.

V'Landys is in for a tough time if he thinks these guys are motivated by a love of the game. They are not and will see him as an "opportunity" for grubby journalism.

PP, I have referenced other Racing bodies and heads in sand on another topic. My issue is that Vlandys chose to go on a friendly chat with AJ after the report broke instead of a media conference. That gave the impression to many outside the industry that he has something to hide. People donít forget about the Opera House similar to pollies who donít forget when bad things happen to them. The ABC report with him was edited but I truly think he did not know how bad the report was going to be otherwise I am not sure if he would have agreed or his guard would have been down like that.

In regards to NRL journalism, there are many journalists including the 3 you named who are critical at times of the NRL. They know that controversy sells. The  difference between NRL and racing is that more people care about NRL than racing except at major carnival time. Compare the number of NRL stories, tipping competitions, sponsorship etc.

The other big factor is NRL can exist without betting while racing cannot. Thus the racing media does not bite the hand that feeds it while NRL media can.  The racing media also knows there are many more scandals in racing than NRL but majority of the time no one cares and there are not that many jobs out there if they lose the trust of the racing participants if they expose them.

In NRL, you have many self interests who are prepared to use the media.

There are worse NRL behaviour than some that hits the media but there are deals done for exclusives. All you have do is to read some journalists and look at their positive stories about some clubs and if you dig deeper there will be no negatives even when someone else exposes things.

Vlandys has majority of the time got positive press from the NSW side when it comes to racing. I donít think he will get it in NRL as much unless he throws his weight around which will not win many friends. Also the NRL board is not that friendly at times too compared to the Racing Board

I think he may revolutionise NRL to some  extent but I donít think it will be as much as Racing. I will be intrigued to see which one he gives up first in the next few years as the workload will be high especially for someone who is hands on.

Offline Jeunes

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« 2019-Oct-29, 06:38 AM Reply #373 »
Anyone know what the crowd figures were like with the Bondi?

I cannot find it or if anyone can post links to race crowd figures will be great.


Offline Jeunes

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« 2019-Nov-02, 11:33 PM Reply #374 »
All reports, crowd today was not flash. Plenty of room and not many queues was the general consensus from some of my mates who went today.

Horses were good especially Pierata and Kolding. The cup field was disappointing compared to the prizemoney offered.

Not sure where they expect the Golden Eagle to be in a few years as my mates got the tickets for free from their TAB account. Then another mate managed to get them members on the day.

They did enjoy the day but also said was too hot and will not be back next year. Atmosphere was ok but nothing like the Slipper at the ďHillĒ.


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